Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:01 AM - Re: HKS engine (michel)
2. 05:46 AM - Kalamazoo MI Seminar date set (hausding, sid)
3. 06:30 AM - Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 (Jimmie Blackwell)
4. 06:41 AM - Re: Tri-gear mod? (Floran Higgins)
5. 07:05 AM - Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 (Clifford Begnaud)
6. 07:45 AM - Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 (Noel & Yoshie Simmons)
7. 07:49 AM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
8. 08:12 AM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (Clifford Begnaud)
9. 08:19 AM - Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
10. 08:56 AM - Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 (Noel & Yoshie Simmons)
11. 09:10 AM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
12. 09:50 AM - Compas sensor in wing tip (dmorisse)
13. 10:49 AM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (Vic Jacko)
14. 11:05 AM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (Clifford Begnaud)
15. 11:05 AM - Inspection hatch (Gary Algate)
16. 11:29 AM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (kurt schrader)
17. 12:02 PM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (Gary Algate)
18. 12:15 PM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (Aerobatics@aol.com)
19. 12:16 PM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (Clifford Begnaud)
20. 12:21 PM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
21. 12:27 PM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
22. 12:33 PM - Gulkana, was: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (Clifford Begnaud)
23. 12:58 PM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (kurt schrader)
24. 01:00 PM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (kurt schrader)
25. 01:01 PM - Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 (Michel Gordillo)
26. 01:20 PM - Re: Tri-gear mod? (Michael Gibbs)
27. 01:50 PM - Re: Short field T/O (kurt schrader)
28. 02:18 PM - Re: Inspection hatch (flier)
29. 02:24 PM - shut-off valve (Howard Firm)
30. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: Short field T/O (Aerobatics@aol.com)
31. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 ()
32. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: Short field T/O (Clifford Begnaud)
33. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Short field T/O (kurt schrader)
34. 06:53 PM - Re: Loctite question (Ceashman@aol.com)
35. 07:01 PM - Re: return for michel was HKS engine (Matt Keyes)
36. 07:29 PM - New to list with question (Roger Rockwell)
37. 07:41 PM - Re: Compas sensor in wing tip (Rick)
38. 07:43 PM - Re: shut-off valve (Rick)
39. 09:33 PM - Kurts Question - 4 wheel aircraft. (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
40. 09:33 PM - Re: Engine Help? (KITFOXPILOT@att.net)
41. 11:54 PM - 618 is out (Kitfox II)! (Patricia Truter)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>===== Original Message From Matt Keyes <keyesmp@yahoo.com> =====
>Not sure what cowling mods would need to be done to fit the opposed cylinder
HKS. Good question.
I have checked this, Matt, and the HKS is two centimeters wider than the
Jabiru 2200. So, apart from a new 582, it looks like all the other engines
will require a modification of the Model 3 round cowling.
Thanks for your help. I am sure that, by next winter, I'll have made up my
mind as to what will replace my now ageing 582.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 2
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| Subject: | Kalamazoo MI Seminar date set |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric , Kalamazoo MI, Seminar date set
Got the word from folks in Kalamazoo finalizing preparations
for a seminar on March 20/21. It will be held in Duncan
Aviation's facility on the airport. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars/Kalamazoo.html
for details.
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
List
I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and was wondering
if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on page 31 one
of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it sure would save
a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it provides an attitude
indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate, slip/skid ball, clock,
gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this on about a 3" x 4" screen.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear mod? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
Each person has to decide for himself what kind of an operation he want to
have,
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dcecil3@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tri-gear mod?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
>
> Floran , I live in Va.at the last census we only had 1 Gopher. I think
he's
> in a Zoo(moved there after the last airplane took off and scared the hell
outta
> him) Tee Hee.As for the Rocks we have Red Clay here( good ole Tera Ruba)
but
> no rocks, infact if you find one most people will pay you for it.Tee Hee
> again.I have 1,000 Ft. of thick green grass, all of which is, as we speak
under 7"
> of Snow! I agree with you that off airport flying does take a different
kind
> of machine but as for me,I'm leaveing the Cow pasture to the Cows(don't
want
> that green stuff on the bottom of my wings makes em stink
> Best
> David Cecil
> KF950
>
> Do not Archive
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Jimmy,
There has been a lot of discussion about this product on the RV list in the
last week or two. I would suggest doing a search of the RV list at
www.matronics.com for "Dynon".
Cliff
>
> I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and was
wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on page
31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it sure
would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it
provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate,
slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this on
about a 3" x 4" screen.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
Jimmy,
I was actually one of the first 10 or so customers to get the instrument in
and flying. I have installed the Dynon in three panels now, one plug and
play the other two were aircraft (RV-6A and RV-9A) that I built have test
flown. The only thing I can say is WOW. There will be nothing you can do
in a Kitfox to saturate it, or gray the screen, it only takes a few seconds
for it to catch up. (Big statement, I'm sure someone can but most are smart
enough not to try). I have done stall turns, spins, aileron rolls, loops,
Cuban eights, -g's. and only once have I saturated the unit, but I was
trying!
1.Light
2.replaces your blind encoder
3.has it's own back up power internally
4.the company is wonderful to work with. You call about a question and
you
get it answered.
I like the belt and suspenders so I always add an airspeed and altimeter
next to it but you will find that the information is much easier to read on
the Dynon and you will not look at the others.
For the ultimate check out Grand Rapids Tech's new EFIS that integrates with
there EIS and a GPS.
Sincerely,
Noel Simmons
Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574
noel@blueskyaviation.net <mailto:noel@blueskyaviation.net>
www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie
Blackwell
Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
List
I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and was
wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on page
31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it sure
would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it
provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate,
slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this on
about a 3" x 4" screen.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. |
PRIORITY_NO_NAME
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm,
and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have
the aluminum gear which just hangs out in the breeze, and
I made no attempt to bury the "bar" as some people do. (actually
a waste of time, since it's all turbulated air underneath anyway,
and the bar is inside the boundary layer - But that's another
issue that I know many would argue about).
I think the real drag producer on the fox is the lift struts, OR
the round cowl. I made foam core fiberglass airfoils for my
lift struts, based on a recomendation of Dr. Michael Selig at
UIUC. The other killer is the round cowl. You could spend the rest
of your life airfoiling and smoothing everything else on the plane,
but never overcome the drag from that round cowl.
It never ceases to amaze me, that people will spend all their time
trying to airfoil and smooth everything on a Kitfox, and yet they
still have a round cowl on the front ...
Some other BIG time waster's are trying to hide all the float attach
fittings, gas caps, etc. The Kitfox does not have laminar flow
airfoils, smooth glass fueslage, etc. Basically all the air along
the fuelage, and wings is turbulent air within 2-3 inches of the
skin. You can put pretty much anything you want in this area, and
it will NOT affect drag. The things that affect drag on a Kitfox, are
items that stick out well into the airstream and have a lot of frontal
area. Like the Lift Struts, The cowl, the gear legs and wheels...
I think Ron's choice is pretty reasonable actually. If the price is
right (and knowing Ron it is) he ends up with a very reliable engine.
With a much better history that some of the engine choices I've seen
out there.
Jeff Hays
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Lowell Fitt lcfitt@inreach.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Ron,
It is interesting that you compare the Whitman Tailwind with the Series 5.
My suggestion is that to get 115 cruise, you concentrate on every bit of
fairing that you can possibly do. The tailwind is a very clean airplane
whereas the 5 as delivered is not so clean. With just a tad more HP than a
R-912, my guess is that you will cruise in more the 90 mph range. I fly
with a group of 912 UL powered Model IVs, some not so clean and one
weighing in at 605 lbs and the general cruise is in the mid 90s. My
airplane is very clean and I can get 115, but it is at maximum cruise RPM
5500.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
>
> Hi Milt,
>
> Jeff Hays hit it right on the head when he said that I would do it because
> the price was great. It will cost me $6000 to install a zero time C-85
> with electrical system. A C-85 in a Wittman Tailwind will cruise it at
> 145mph. Its empty wt. is the same as the Series 5. My climb rate will be
> down to about 600fpm but my cruise should be about 115. The higher hp
> engines will show their hp mostly in climb performance. I'll still be a
lot
> better than a Cessna 140...I'll be happy. I hear that the cost of a new
> 912s with firewall forward is over 17K now.......Retirement pension allows
> for the C-85 at about 1/3 that cost.
> Just got home from Oshkosh where they had the yearly ski plane/ chili
fest.
> 7 deg temp but no wind and blue skies made for a great day. Lots of neat
> planes on skis. No Kitfoxes, darn.....
>
> Ron N55KF
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Milt's Kitfox Stuff"
> <flysly@erols.com>
> >
> > Ron,
> > I would do some head scratching before I put a C-85 on a Series V and
> > carefully consider a 912 in light of the weight to power ratio. I'm
> putting
> > a Franklin A-235 on my Series V that offers 125 hp. Once I get it
flying
> > and put some time on it, I plan to upgrade to high compression pistons
> which
> > will yield 145 hp. At that power to weight ratio I should have a pretty
> > good capability for the cost... about $14-$15K.
> >
> > Good Luck,
> > Milt
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ron" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine choice
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
> > >
> > > Hello Listers,
> > >
> > > I have a Model 5 which I will rebuild in the future and I'm
considering
> a
> > > C-85 with starter and alternator. Has anyone heard of a C-85 in a
> Kitfox?
> > >
> > > Thanks, Ron N55KF
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Jeff,
What prop are you using?
Thanks,
Cliff
> My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm,
> and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Noel, what have you done for magnetic compass when using the dynon? Do Not Archive.
John Kerr
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons"
> <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
>
> Jimmy,
>
> I was actually one of the first 10 or so customers to get the instrument in
> and flying. I have installed the Dynon in three panels now, one plug and
> play the other two were aircraft (RV-6A and RV-9A) that I built have test
> flown. The only thing I can say is WOW. There will be nothing you can do
> in a Kitfox to saturate it, or gray the screen, it only takes a few seconds
> for it to catch up. (Big statement, I'm sure someone can but most are smart
> enough not to try). I have done stall turns, spins, aileron rolls, loops,
> Cuban eights, -g's. and only once have I saturated the unit, but I was
> trying!
>
> 1.Light
> 2.replaces your blind encoder
> 3.has it's own back up power internally
> 4.the company is wonderful to work with. You call about a question and
> you
> get it answered.
>
>
> I like the belt and suspenders so I always add an airspeed and altimeter
> next to it but you will find that the information is much easier to read on
> the Dynon and you will not look at the others.
>
> For the ultimate check out Grand Rapids Tech's new EFIS that integrates with
> there EIS and a GPS.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Noel Simmons
> Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
> Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574
> noel@blueskyaviation.net <mailto:noel@blueskyaviation.net>
> www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie
> Blackwell
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
> List
>
> I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and was
> wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on page
> 31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it sure
> would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it
> provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate,
> slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this on
> about a 3" x 4" screen.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
John,
You are required by the FAA to have a magnetic compass, so I put one in the
normal spot. The Dynon has one too and you will have to mount the fluxgate
out in the wing tip way away from metal.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
kerrjohna@comcast.net
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Noel, what have you done for magnetic compass when using the dynon? Do Not
Archive.
John Kerr
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons"
> <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
>
> Jimmy,
>
> I was actually one of the first 10 or so customers to get the instrument
in
> and flying. I have installed the Dynon in three panels now, one plug and
> play the other two were aircraft (RV-6A and RV-9A) that I built have test
> flown. The only thing I can say is WOW. There will be nothing you can do
> in a Kitfox to saturate it, or gray the screen, it only takes a few
seconds
> for it to catch up. (Big statement, I'm sure someone can but most are
smart
> enough not to try). I have done stall turns, spins, aileron rolls, loops,
> Cuban eights, -g's. and only once have I saturated the unit, but I was
> trying!
>
> 1.Light
> 2.replaces your blind encoder
> 3.has it's own back up power internally
> 4.the company is wonderful to work with. You call about a
question and
> you
> get it answered.
>
>
> I like the belt and suspenders so I always add an airspeed and altimeter
> next to it but you will find that the information is much easier to read
on
> the Dynon and you will not look at the others.
>
> For the ultimate check out Grand Rapids Tech's new EFIS that integrates
with
> there EIS and a GPS.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Noel Simmons
> Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
> Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574
> noel@blueskyaviation.net <mailto:noel@blueskyaviation.net>
> www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie
> Blackwell
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
<jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
> List
>
> I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and was
> wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on page
> 31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it
sure
> would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it
> provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate,
> slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this on
> about a 3" x 4" screen.
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Hi -
I have a Sensenich. It is the standard pitch prop. I get 2200 rpm
static at full power on the ground. I have been thinking about
ordering a climb prop as well. For the most part I fly throttled
back a bit anyway. I generally get about 105 knot's at 22-2400
rpm's in level flight. This would be my typical cruise setting.
At redline (2800), it exceeds VNE (140 mph). My empty weight is
967, and I have 12 lb's of ballast behind the trim actuator. My
weight is 160, so my usual flying weight is not generally very
heavy. In the summer with two aboard I can still get greater than
1000 fpm climb. I have not measured takeoff distance, but it is
quite short. I generally do three point takeoff's under full
power.
Once I can takeoff like the supercub in this video, I'll be happy -
http://www.supercub.org/upload/Mov3.mpg
Jeff
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Clifford Begnaud shoeless@barefootpilot.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Jeff,
What prop are you using?
Thanks,
Cliff
> My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm,
> and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Compas sensor in wing tip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I've got an electronic compass by Richie that has always been a problem
because I have the fluxgate in the baggage area where it's affected each
time I put something back there with any metal. I've often considered
installing in a wing tip, but was reluctant to do so because of the flapping
inertia during travel through turbulence. The sensor has a moving part in
it that seems would be sensitive to a lot of bumping around. Is this an
issue or should I just install it in the wing tip? Of course it would
require getting an extention cable from Richie, but I don't think that it
would be a problem. Any opinions?
Darrel
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons"
<noel@blueskyaviation.net>
>
> John,
>
> You are required by the FAA to have a magnetic compass, so I put one in
the
> normal spot. The Dynon has one too and you will have to mount the
fluxgate
> out in the wing tip way away from metal.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> kerrjohna@comcast.net
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>
> Noel, what have you done for magnetic compass when using the dynon? Do Not
> Archive.
>
> John Kerr
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons"
> > <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
> >
> > Jimmy,
> >
> > I was actually one of the first 10 or so customers to get the instrument
> in
> > and flying. I have installed the Dynon in three panels now, one plug
and
> > play the other two were aircraft (RV-6A and RV-9A) that I built have
test
> > flown. The only thing I can say is WOW. There will be nothing you can
do
> > in a Kitfox to saturate it, or gray the screen, it only takes a few
> seconds
> > for it to catch up. (Big statement, I'm sure someone can but most are
> smart
> > enough not to try). I have done stall turns, spins, aileron rolls,
loops,
> > Cuban eights, -g's. and only once have I saturated the unit, but I was
> > trying!
> >
> > 1.Light
> > 2.replaces your blind encoder
> > 3.has it's own back up power internally
> > 4.the company is wonderful to work with. You call about a
> question and
> > you
> > get it answered.
> >
> >
> > I like the belt and suspenders so I always add an airspeed and altimeter
> > next to it but you will find that the information is much easier to read
> on
> > the Dynon and you will not look at the others.
> >
> > For the ultimate check out Grand Rapids Tech's new EFIS that integrates
> with
> > there EIS and a GPS.
> >
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Noel Simmons
> > Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
> > Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574
> > noel@blueskyaviation.net <mailto:noel@blueskyaviation.net>
> > www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie
> > Blackwell
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
> <jablackwell@ev1.net>
> >
> > List
> >
> > I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and
was
> > wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on
page
> > 31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it
> sure
> > would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it
> > provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate,
> > slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this
on
> > about a 3" x 4" screen.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Cliff,
I was about to add a few inches of pitch and go from 47 inches to 50. This
probably would not hurt you climb performance much as I could get 2450 RPM
static when the engine had just a few hours on it. What are you now
getting static on a warm afternoon at your field elevation of 5,0000 feet?
I think if you were at sea level you would see near Vne at 2900 RPM. I
still think of the old girl N88VJ. You be nice to her! you-hear
Jeff,
At what altitude are you located and at what altitude do you get Vne?
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
<jeff.hays@aselia.com>
>
>
> Hi -
>
> I have a Sensenich. It is the standard pitch prop. I get 2200 rpm
> static at full power on the ground. I have been thinking about
> ordering a climb prop as well. For the most part I fly throttled
> back a bit anyway. I generally get about 105 knot's at 22-2400
> rpm's in level flight. This would be my typical cruise setting.
> At redline (2800), it exceeds VNE (140 mph). My empty weight is
> 967, and I have 12 lb's of ballast behind the trim actuator. My
> weight is 160, so my usual flying weight is not generally very
> heavy. In the summer with two aboard I can still get greater than
> 1000 fpm climb. I have not measured takeoff distance, but it is
> quite short. I generally do three point takeoff's under full
> power.
>
> Once I can takeoff like the supercub in this video, I'll be happy -
> http://www.supercub.org/upload/Mov3.mpg
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Clifford Begnaud shoeless@barefootpilot.com
> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:14:09 -0700
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers.
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
> <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
> Jeff,
> What prop are you using?
> Thanks,
> Cliff
>
> > My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm,
> > and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have
> >
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Jeff,
I can't take off that short either, yet.
I have a video of this Gulkana event where this was shot. I think the
takeoff roll for this guy was 18'. I also think he is pumping nitrous into
the engine. I agree with you though, I'll be happy when I can take off that
short.
I looked on the Sensenich web site, it says that the standard prop for the
Kitfox 5 with IO-240 is W74EK-2-58. Is that it? I assume that means it is a
74" diameter with a 58" pitch?
Cliff
> Hi -
>
> I have a Sensenich. It is the standard pitch prop. I get 2200 rpm
> static at full power on the ground. I have been thinking about
> ordering a climb prop as well. For the most part I fly throttled
> back a bit anyway. I generally get about 105 knot's at 22-2400
> rpm's in level flight. This would be my typical cruise setting.
> At redline (2800), it exceeds VNE (140 mph). My empty weight is
> 967, and I have 12 lb's of ballast behind the trim actuator. My
> weight is 160, so my usual flying weight is not generally very
> heavy. In the summer with two aboard I can still get greater than
> 1000 fpm climb. I have not measured takeoff distance, but it is
> quite short. I generally do three point takeoff's under full
> power.
>
> Once I can takeoff like the supercub in this video, I'll be happy -
> http://www.supercub.org/upload/Mov3.mpg
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Clifford Begnaud shoeless@barefootpilot.com
> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:14:09 -0700
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers.
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
> <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
> Jeff,
> What prop are you using?
> Thanks,
> Cliff
>
> > My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm,
> > and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Inspection hatch |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
I decided to do a few quick circuits on the weekend (weather has been lousy
averaging -25 most days). I took off and was climbing when I noticed a huge
draft and was surprised to see the bottom of the passenger side door had
popped out of the frame. I landed immediately and checked the door which
appeared fine. I gave it a little extra tweak and took off again and as soon
as my speed approached 80 mph the bottom of the door popped out again.
Alarm bells started to ring so I again landed immediately. I checked the
door and it was a good tight fit so then I checked the fuselage frame for
cracks etc - nothing. I knew that something must have been altering the
airflow so I checked the cowl and engine mounts etc but nothing.
At this stage I decided I wasn't going to fly until I found what had changed
and did a complete walk around. Sure enough, under the rear passenger
stabilizer the aluminum access hatch had lost 2 of the forward securing
screws and it was bent straight out at 90 degrees to the fuselage. Evidently
this had disturbed the airflow causing a low pressure area at the door,
sucking it out.
Interestingly there was no noticeable control change and the ball was
centered in flight as one of the first things I suspected was that I was
flying uncoordinated and inducing a low pressure area.
I have now included checking the access hatches during my walk around.....
Gary Algate
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Do not archive
Interesting things to note in the film:
1. It is a tail dragger and not a nose wheeled plane.
2. At his power and with brakes locked, the
taildragger still doesn't nose over. He is in
control.
3. Why raise the tail at all?
Kurt S.
> > Hi -
> >
> > I have a Sensenich. It is the standard pitch prop.
> I get 2200 rpm
> > static at full power on the ground. I have been
> thinking about
> > ordering a climb prop as well.
....................................
> > Once I can takeoff like the supercub in this
> video, I'll be happy -
> > http://www.supercub.org/upload/Mov3.mpg
> >
> > Jeff
__________________________________
Message 17
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| Subject: | Engine choice - Drag Producers. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
You can accelerate far quicker with the tail raised. I don't think he even
needs wings on that puppy.
Gary Algate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
3. Why raise the tail at all?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
Why raise the tail?
1) Better visability
2) More control of rudder
3) Faster acceleration due to less drag
Oh, did I say better visability!! kinda important :-)
especially in a KF 2
Dave KF 2
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Hi Vic,
I've been seeing 2450 static lately.
Actually, I would like to try a 76x 45 prop, or something like that. The
objective would be to achieve a shorter takeoff roll. I'm more interested in
that phase of flight that I am in going faster.
You are correct, it will red line near sea level.
Don't worry, I love my baby! ;-)
Cliff
>
> Cliff,
>
> I was about to add a few inches of pitch and go from 47 inches to 50.
This
> probably would not hurt you climb performance much as I could get 2450 RPM
> static when the engine had just a few hours on it. What are you now
> getting static on a warm afternoon at your field elevation of 5,0000 feet?
> I think if you were at sea level you would see near Vne at 2900 RPM. I
> still think of the old girl N88VJ. You be nice to her! you-hear
>
>
> Jeff,
>
>
> At what altitude are you located and at what altitude do you get Vne?
>
> Vic
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers.
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
> <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
> >
> >
> > Hi -
> >
> > I have a Sensenich. It is the standard pitch prop. I get 2200 rpm
> > static at full power on the ground. I have been thinking about
> > ordering a climb prop as well. For the most part I fly throttled
> > back a bit anyway. I generally get about 105 knot's at 22-2400
> > rpm's in level flight. This would be my typical cruise setting.
> > At redline (2800), it exceeds VNE (140 mph). My empty weight is
> > 967, and I have 12 lb's of ballast behind the trim actuator. My
> > weight is 160, so my usual flying weight is not generally very
> > heavy. In the summer with two aboard I can still get greater than
> > 1000 fpm climb. I have not measured takeoff distance, but it is
> > quite short. I generally do three point takeoff's under full
> > power.
> >
> > Once I can takeoff like the supercub in this video, I'll be happy -
> > http://www.supercub.org/upload/Mov3.mpg
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: Clifford Begnaud shoeless@barefootpilot.com
> > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:14:09 -0700
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers.
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
> > <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
> >
> > Jeff,
> > What prop are you using?
> > Thanks,
> > Cliff
> >
> > > My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm,
> > > and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Vic -
I fly in Illinois, most of my flying is around 3000 ft. msl.
Jeff Hays.
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Vic Jacko vicwj@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Cliff,
I was about to add a few inches of pitch and go from 47 inches to 50. This
probably would not hurt you climb performance much as I could get 2450 RPM
static when the engine had just a few hours on it. What are you now
getting static on a warm afternoon at your field elevation of 5,0000 feet?
I think if you were at sea level you would see near Vne at 2900 RPM. I
still think of the old girl N88VJ. You be nice to her! you-hear
Jeff,
At what altitude are you located and at what altitude do you get Vne?
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
<jeff.hays@aselia.com>
>
>
> Hi -
>
> I have a Sensenich. It is the standard pitch prop. I get 2200 rpm
> static at full power on the ground. I have been thinking about
> ordering a climb prop as well. For the most part I fly throttled
> back a bit anyway. I generally get about 105 knot's at 22-2400
> rpm's in level flight. This would be my typical cruise setting.
> At redline (2800), it exceeds VNE (140 mph). My empty weight is
> 967, and I have 12 lb's of ballast behind the trim actuator. My
> weight is 160, so my usual flying weight is not generally very
> heavy. In the summer with two aboard I can still get greater than
> 1000 fpm climb. I have not measured takeoff distance, but it is
> quite short. I generally do three point takeoff's under full
> power.
>
> Once I can takeoff like the supercub in this video, I'll be happy -
> http://www.supercub.org/upload/Mov3.mpg
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Clifford Begnaud shoeless@barefootpilot.com
> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:14:09 -0700
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers.
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
> <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
> Jeff,
> What prop are you using?
> Thanks,
> Cliff
>
> > My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm,
> > and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have
> >
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Cliff -
Pretty sure that is the prop, I'd have to go out to the airport to
be sure. Only thing else about the prop, is that I have a a 2" wide
by 2' piece of trimbrite chip protector tape on the leading edge. I
think it is a 10 mil tape. Anyway, after flying in the rain once,
I decided I better do something to protect the prop, as the varnish
mostly dissapeared from the leading edge. Since then I have flown in
the rain several times, and no problems with the prop. The tape is
really tough, and did not hurt performance at all.
Jeff
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Clifford Begnaud shoeless@barefootpilot.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Jeff,
I can't take off that short either, yet.
I have a video of this Gulkana event where this was shot. I think the
takeoff roll for this guy was 18'. I also think he is pumping nitrous into
the engine. I agree with you though, I'll be happy when I can take off that
short.
I looked on the Sensenich web site, it says that the standard prop for the
Kitfox 5 with IO-240 is W74EK-2-58. Is that it? I assume that means it is a
74" diameter with a 58" pitch?
Cliff
> Hi -
>
> I have a Sensenich. It is the standard pitch prop. I get 2200 rpm
> static at full power on the ground. I have been thinking about
> ordering a climb prop as well. For the most part I fly throttled
> back a bit anyway. I generally get about 105 knot's at 22-2400
> rpm's in level flight. This would be my typical cruise setting.
> At redline (2800), it exceeds VNE (140 mph). My empty weight is
> 967, and I have 12 lb's of ballast behind the trim actuator. My
> weight is 160, so my usual flying weight is not generally very
> heavy. In the summer with two aboard I can still get greater than
> 1000 fpm climb. I have not measured takeoff distance, but it is
> quite short. I generally do three point takeoff's under full
> power.
>
> Once I can takeoff like the supercub in this video, I'll be happy -
> http://www.supercub.org/upload/Mov3.mpg
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Clifford Begnaud shoeless@barefootpilot.com
> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:14:09 -0700
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers.
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
> <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
> Jeff,
> What prop are you using?
> Thanks,
> Cliff
>
> > My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm,
> > and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have
> >
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Gulkana, was: Engine choice - Drag Producers. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
> Do not archive
Kurt wrote:
> Interesting things to note in the film:
>
> 1. It is a tail dragger and not a nose wheeled plane.
Yes, but one with extended gear and large tires. This raises the angle of
incedence of the wing when "tail down" (this is good for short field work)
> 2. At his power and with brakes locked, the
> taildragger still doesn't nose over. He is in
> control.
Note that he released the brakes when the tail lifted to his desired point.
Had he held the brakes any longer, he would have needed a new prop. Our
plane will do the same; that is it will nose over if you don't release the
brakes after lifting the tail. First time I did it, I almost lost it,
scared the crap out of me.
>
> 3. Why raise the tail at all?
>
This is the Gulkana, AK contest! He was trying to shave inches off the
take-off roll. Raising the tail reduced drag for the two and a half seconds
that he was rolling.
Cliff
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
You must not have seen the movie.
He powers up with brakes locked and raises the tail
statically. Once horizontal, he releases the brakes
and drops the tail. The total takeoff roll is about
1.5 plane lengths and takes about 2 seconds.
Visibility isn't much of an issue there. At best, he
looks before brake release. Maybe he can pick up a
swerve from bad brake release faster and correct?
Control is almost certainly based upon how well he
releases the brakes together, not rudder. I don't see
the rudder moving much in the movie. Even "P" factor
is hardly important since he goes from level to nose
up in 1.5 seconds of brake release. Gyroscopic force
is more important with his pitch rate.
And accelleration vs drag? There is a breeze blowing.
That and his speed at lift off is maybe 25 mph? The
faster half of that is with the tail back down.
I assume that he had a reason that he found in
practice. He drives the tail wheel down hard, which
may give another degree of AOA for liftoff, before
busting the spring.
Then again, he may always use this method, but without
the hard tail wheel drop, for off airport takeoffs to
save the tailwheel on rough stuff.
Kurt S.
--- Aerobatics@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
> Aerobatics@aol.com
>
> Why raise the tail?
>
> 1) Better visability
>
> 2) More control of rudder
>
> 3) Faster acceleration due to less drag
>
>
> Oh, did I say better visability!! kinda important
> :-)
>
> especially in a KF 2
>
> Dave KF 2
__________________________________
Message 24
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| Subject: | Engine choice - Drag Producers. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I would agree with a longer takeoff roll, but he only
spends the first 20 feet with the tail wheel off the
ground. Not much aero drag produced there.
Kurt S.
--- Gary Algate <algate@attglobal.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate"
> <algate@attglobal.net>
>
>
> You can accelerate far quicker with the tail raised.
> I don't think he even
> needs wings on that puppy.
>
> Gary Algate
__________________________________
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel Gordillo" <michelgordillo@telefonica.net>
Hi .
I have also tested it and compared with the RC Allen and also with a
Gyrolaser.
It is mandatory to have the pitot airspeed input in order to have it working
properly, so it is not independent like other gyros.
Another small problem is that during the take off, it indicates a pitch up
caused by acceleration.
Those are the cons. Everything else y very nice and I like it.
Michel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
<jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
> List
>
> I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and was
wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on page
31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it sure
would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it
provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate,
slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this on
about a 3" x 4" screen.
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear mod? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
>
>It doesn't take much of a rock or gopher hole to overstress the attachment
>point where the nose wheel attaches to the frame.
Some nosewheels are sturdier than others. The SkyStar nosewheel
doesn't strike me as one of the more rugged ones, although I know
folks like Phil Laker who took his on one of the Alaska trips and
landed everywhere the taildraggers landed with no difficulties.
It doesn't take much of a rock or gopher hole to send a taildragger
into the weeds or even flip it over, either.
>Also the prop tips are much closer to the ground.
Proper technique is necessary regardless of which end the third wheel
is at. A well-executed, soft-field takeoff in a nosewheeled airplane
with substantial up-elevator applied will raise the prop very shortly
after take-off power is applied--in some airplanes even before you
start moving.
>There are reasons that people that operate routinely off airport fly
>taildraggers.
And there are plenty of nose wheel aircraft operating off airport
routinely. There are advantages and disadvantages to each and, in
any given situation, one may be better suited to the mission than the
other.
Mike G.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Short field T/O |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Well this is fun. At least there is life here again.
Did you notice that he uses no up elevator while
holding the brakes? He uses down elevator only after
the tail is up and brakes released? The tail does
come up mostly from power alone, but would probably
drop 1/2 second too soon for him when he releases the
brakes. If he wanted to, he could have used up
elevator to stop the tail rising with more power, or
at least delaying it for most of the powerup to hold
it level. I think he does it for less drag too.
I am afraid of holding full power with brakes on in my
plane too. But I think it would slide on grass first.
I just don't want to chance it. Maybe I should put a
scale tht can be read at a distance under the tail
while powering up and using the elevator. Reduce
power when it gets too close. See if I can get all
143 HP in.
I wonder just how much he saved in takeoff roll by
leveling the plane first? Maybe none given so little
drag saved versus wheel and elevator drag used. I bet
he had those big tires pumped up (to maybe 5 lbs?) for
less ground drag too.
If it were a nose wheeled plane the proceedure would
be? And the results would be?
I am done with this. You all can continue if you
want. Just thought I would take my mind off the ice
storm here and dream of really short T/O's in a Fox.
Kurt S.
--- Clifford Begnaud <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford
> Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
> > Do not archive
> Kurt wrote:
> > Interesting things to note in the film:
> >
> > 1. It is a tail dragger and not a nose wheeled
> plane.
>
> Yes, but one with extended gear and large tires.
> This raises the angle of
> incedence of the wing when "tail down" (this is good
> for short field work)
>
> > 2. At his power and with brakes locked, the
> > taildragger still doesn't nose over. He is in
> > control.
>
> Note that he released the brakes when the tail
> lifted to his desired point.
> Had he held the brakes any longer, he would have
> needed a new prop. Our
> plane will do the same; that is it will nose over if
> you don't release the
> brakes after lifting the tail. First time I did it,
> I almost lost it,
> scared the crap out of me.
> >
> > 3. Why raise the tail at all?
> >
> This is the Gulkana, AK contest! He was trying to
> shave inches off the
> take-off roll. Raising the tail reduced drag for the
> two and a half seconds
> that he was rolling.
>
> Cliff
__________________________________
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection hatch |
A couple of times in the past after I've been doing
really steep slips, the port door latch has worked
itself loose and the door has flown open. Only once
with a passenger. Either during downwind or on
final. Talk about a swift pucker! Even though you
know you can't fall out, the wind and noise when that
sucker comes open unexpectedly is...
exhilarating...to say the least.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Inspection hatch
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate"
<algate@attglobal.net>
>
>I decided to do a few quick circuits on the weekend
(weather has been lousy
>averaging -25 most days). I took off and was
climbing when I noticed a huge
>draft and was surprised to see the bottom of the
passenger side door had
>popped out of the frame. I landed immediately and
checked the door which
>appeared fine.
Message 29
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
Anyone know where I can get a fuel shutoff valve....just one way. AS has
quit supplying the on/off one way valves.
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Short field T/O |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
Well...............
My strip is 850 feet, (keeps out those Lears from visiting) and on a calm
warm (hot) humid day, full fuel, with a passenger ....it may not seem
important, but I Power up slowly with full UP until the plane starts to skid on
the
grass, then I go full power and release the brakes at the same time.
Then, in about a second almost full down is applied to level the plane and I
adjust elevator as speed builds to 35 to 37 mph, then rotate. If the day is
hot, at gross, Ill drop a bit of flap at time of rotation, then slowly remove
shortly after TO.
I am sure there are many ways, as we can see from here.... but this seems to
be the best combo on my short grass strip.
Also, this is with a KF2 with a 582 and IVO prop and loving it! in fact the
past 18 months I have put almost 200 hours on her.... and I will replace the
582, with a..... 582....
Dave
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <dsherburn@charter.net>
Can you guys talk about "update rates"? How often does the display update? Does
it semm to "keep up"? Thanx
ds
>
> From: "Michel Gordillo" <michelgordillo@telefonica.net>
> Date: 2004/01/26 Mon PM 09:00:49 GMT
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Short field T/O |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
> Well this is fun. At least there is life here again.
Kurt, yes this is fun stuff!
> Did you notice that he uses no up elevator while
> holding the brakes? He uses down elevator only after
> the tail is up and brakes released? The tail does
> come up mostly from power alone, but would probably
> drop 1/2 second too soon for him when he releases the
> brakes. If he wanted to, he could have used up
> elevator to stop the tail rising with more power, or
> at least delaying it for most of the powerup to hold
> it level.
When I did it the first time in our Kitfox and the nose kept dropping, I
tried up elevator to stop it, but it didn't. I released the brakes just in
the nick of time to avoid a prop strike. Not sure how the cub would react.
I have two more short video clips from the same Gulkana event, one takeoff
and one landing. This pilot used a similar, but slightly different technique
that I'm sure you would find interesting.
I tried to upload the clips to Sportflight, but it didn't work. Can anyone
post the two videos? One is 2.6 meg the other 3 megs.
>
> I am afraid of holding full power with brakes on in my
> plane too. But I think it would slide on grass first.
> I just don't want to chance it. Maybe I should put a
> scale tht can be read at a distance under the tail
> while powering up and using the elevator. Reduce
> power when it gets too close. See if I can get all
> 143 HP in.
Careful when you do it! Release the brakes quickly when the plane gets
level. You may not be able to stop it with elevator.
>
> I wonder just how much he saved in takeoff roll by
> leveling the plane first? Maybe none given so little
> drag saved versus wheel and elevator drag used. I bet
> he had those big tires pumped up (to maybe 5 lbs?) for
> less ground drag too.
I'll bet he tried it different ways before the contest. I doubt he would
have done it this way if it wasn't effective at shaving a few feet. The
pilot in the other video clip that I have, raised his tail also.
>
> If it were a nose wheeled plane the proceedure would
> be? And the results would be?
Brakes, full power, pull on the stick.... Results? I guess it depends if the
trigear plane can achieve a higher angle, all else being equal. Even then it
may not matter because these supercubs sit at a very high angle because of
extended gear and large tires. They are probably at the optimum angle and
any more wouldn't help.
Best Regards,
Cliff
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Short field T/O |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Cliff,
This is how we dream, isn't it? Imagining those
things we can do with our planes.
I wonder if anyone had built a 4 wheel plane like the
COD C-2's have? Put the mains right about at the CG
and use which ever 3rd wheel best fits the
situation... Rock forward and the mains are behind
the CG. Rock back and use the tailwheel. A little
more drag than just a nose wheel I know, but it covers
all situations except water/snow landings. :-)
And what about that old KitFox byplane? How short was
that takeoff?
Well, I am installing VG's for sure...
Too much fun. I got work to do.
Later,
Kurt S.
__________________________________
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Loctite question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
Hello Jay.
The Loctite that was mentioned was # 609 (green)
I have ordered from Lockwood Aviation Supply but it is on "backorder" So I
have no idea when it arrives. The cost for a . 34oz bottle is $15.95,
I guess it is precious (right now it is! Its "backorder")
The O rings are also precious! at $8.13 each. I replaced only the O rings
last weekend but haven't the opportunity to fire her up yet 'cause of the
weather. I hope that the ring change will cure the leaks. And by looking at the
situation, it is the O ring that is the first line of defense. If it fails then
I
can't see the flange or elbow holding anything back.
Cheers. Eric, IV. 912
e-mail; ceashman@aol.com
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Kitfox-List:return for michel was HKS engine |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Keyes <keyesmp@yahoo.com>
Michel,
Glad you found the web sites usefull. Keep me posted through the list on what
you decide and how it goes. I am a long way off from begining my project, so
I am deep into the research stage and still trying to gather information from
companies and from real experiences like the ones found within this great list!
Matt
Do Not Archive
---------------------------------
Message 36
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| Subject: | New to list with question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Roger Rockwell <flkitfox@juno.com>
Hi Kitfoxers,
I'm new to the list. I've been hanging around for a few days and reading
some of the archives.
There is a lot of great stuff here.
I am planning on ordering the Series 7. I have also found a Model III
that may have potential.
I have about 450 hours in a Cessna 172. (IFR). No tail dragger time.
I am considering buying the Model III to build time in while building the
Series 7.
Now for the question. What things should I look for in the Model III
pre-purchase inspection? It has about 500hrsTT with 200SMOH on
Rotax 582
Any hints or suggestion would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Roger Rockwell
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Compas sensor in wing tip |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
OK Guys lets get an independent among us to call the EAA and get an answer.
I did this some time ago. You do not have to have a compass in an
experimental VFR aircraft. Please post the response for all to see. You may
want, need, like or are use to but don't have to, have one.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of dmorisse
Subject: Kitfox-List: Compas sensor in wing tip
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I've got an electronic compass by Richie that has always been a problem
because I have the fluxgate in the baggage area where it's affected each
time I put something back there with any metal. I've often considered
installing in a wing tip, but was reluctant to do so because of the flapping
inertia during travel through turbulence. The sensor has a moving part in
it that seems would be sensitive to a lot of bumping around. Is this an
issue or should I just install it in the wing tip? Of course it would
require getting an extention cable from Richie, but I don't think that it
would be a problem. Any opinions?
Darrel
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons"
<noel@blueskyaviation.net>
>
> John,
>
> You are required by the FAA to have a magnetic compass, so I put one in
the
> normal spot. The Dynon has one too and you will have to mount the
fluxgate
> out in the wing tip way away from metal.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> kerrjohna@comcast.net
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>
> Noel, what have you done for magnetic compass when using the dynon? Do Not
> Archive.
>
> John Kerr
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons"
> > <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
> >
> > Jimmy,
> >
> > I was actually one of the first 10 or so customers to get the instrument
> in
> > and flying. I have installed the Dynon in three panels now, one plug
and
> > play the other two were aircraft (RV-6A and RV-9A) that I built have
test
> > flown. The only thing I can say is WOW. There will be nothing you can
do
> > in a Kitfox to saturate it, or gray the screen, it only takes a few
> seconds
> > for it to catch up. (Big statement, I'm sure someone can but most are
> smart
> > enough not to try). I have done stall turns, spins, aileron rolls,
loops,
> > Cuban eights, -g's. and only once have I saturated the unit, but I was
> > trying!
> >
> > 1.Light
> > 2.replaces your blind encoder
> > 3.has it's own back up power internally
> > 4.the company is wonderful to work with. You call about a
> question and
> > you
> > get it answered.
> >
> >
> > I like the belt and suspenders so I always add an airspeed and altimeter
> > next to it but you will find that the information is much easier to read
> on
> > the Dynon and you will not look at the others.
> >
> > For the ultimate check out Grand Rapids Tech's new EFIS that integrates
> with
> > there EIS and a GPS.
> >
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Noel Simmons
> > Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
> > Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574
> > noel@blueskyaviation.net <mailto:noel@blueskyaviation.net>
> > www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie
> > Blackwell
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
> <jablackwell@ev1.net>
> >
> > List
> >
> > I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and
was
> > wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on
page
> > 31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it
> sure
> > would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it
> > provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate,
> > slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this
on
> > about a 3" x 4" screen.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 38
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Howard , not even the Adair?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Howard Firm
Subject: Kitfox-List: shut-off valve
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
Anyone know where I can get a fuel shutoff valve....just one way. AS has
quit supplying the on/off one way valves.
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792
Message 39
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| Subject: | Kurts Question - 4 wheel aircraft. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
In a message dated 1/26/04 6:19:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes:
I wonder if anyone had built a 4 wheel plane like the
COD C-2's have? Put the mains right about at the CG
and use which ever 3rd wheel best fits the
situation... Rock forward and the mains are behind
the CG. Rock back and use the tailwheel. A little
more drag than just a nose wheel I know, but it covers
all situations except water/snow landings. :-)
There was a conversion for the J-3 that had a nosewheel & retained the
tailwheel. I worked for the man that invented it, Ray was managing the Tulsa North
airport at the time I flew it in Tulsa, OK. now known as Downtown Airport I
believe. It was called the Testerman Gear. I flew it in '62 or so. Was a
little more balanced than a Tri Champ. Then the Europa monogear has 4 wheels,
one main, two outriggers & a tailwheel :-) And the O'Neil Aristocraft, Taylor
AeroCar and so on ~~ + nearly all the amphibious float planes.
Elbie
I must be getting old :-)
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Help? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
I asked a fellow pilot friend, he said just stay out of the FRZ, fly the ADIS
and make sure you get your SQUAK code. He said AOPA has all the questions
about the ADIS for the area. I have not flown in the new ADIS, but I don't
think it will be that bad. I hope this helps.
Ray
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
>
> Ray,
>
> I had talked to you earlier about flying to Freeway Airport. My only
> concern was that Freeway is smack in the center of the Washington, DC
> ADIZ. You were going to find out what the ADIZ approach procedure was
> to enter Freeway. I am not sure about "Condition Yellow", but for
> "Condition Orange" you had to first fly to another designated airport
> (don't remember the airport name) for inspection prior to proceeding to
> Freeway. Do Not Archive.
>
> --
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
>
> KITFOXPILOT@att.net wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
> >
> >Is there anyone in the DC,MD,VA, that would be willing to drive or fly down
> >to Freeway Airport located in Mitchellville MD, to help me adjust my carbs
> >and give my plane a good looks over? Help!
> >
> >Ray N2BH
> >Model IV 1200 912S
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | 618 is out (Kitfox II)! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Patricia Truter" <PTruter@csir.co.za>
I don't know if you can still remember: I had some problems with my 618
(lost +- 500 revs and power). The engine only had 100 hours on. MANY
people worked on it, gave advice, etc. We even exchanged the crank shaft
with another to see if that could be the problem. The bottom line: we
spent about R30 (US$4 000) on the 618 with NO improvement and finally we
bought a new 582 (blue top).
We are now working on the marriage of the 582/99 with our Kitfox II.
Now, that
exhaust system needs "folding up" inside the cowls and this can be an
exercise taking much longer than we have time for. If we could get a
head
start, that would help a lot. Any pics / drawings / ideas perhaps
available
of what other flyers did to fit the 582 exhaust into the KF II cowls?
Regards
Patricia
(I haven't been flying for almost 6 months now) :-(
--
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