---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/26/04: 41 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:01 AM - Re: HKS engine (michel) 2. 05:46 AM - Kalamazoo MI Seminar date set (hausding, sid) 3. 06:30 AM - Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 (Jimmie Blackwell) 4. 06:41 AM - Re: Tri-gear mod? (Floran Higgins) 5. 07:05 AM - Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 (Clifford Begnaud) 6. 07:45 AM - Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 (Noel & Yoshie Simmons) 7. 07:49 AM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (jeff.hays@aselia.com) 8. 08:12 AM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (Clifford Begnaud) 9. 08:19 AM - Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 10. 08:56 AM - Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 (Noel & Yoshie Simmons) 11. 09:10 AM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (jeff.hays@aselia.com) 12. 09:50 AM - Compas sensor in wing tip (dmorisse) 13. 10:49 AM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (Vic Jacko) 14. 11:05 AM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (Clifford Begnaud) 15. 11:05 AM - Inspection hatch (Gary Algate) 16. 11:29 AM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (kurt schrader) 17. 12:02 PM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (Gary Algate) 18. 12:15 PM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (Aerobatics@aol.com) 19. 12:16 PM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (Clifford Begnaud) 20. 12:21 PM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (jeff.hays@aselia.com) 21. 12:27 PM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (jeff.hays@aselia.com) 22. 12:33 PM - Gulkana, was: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (Clifford Begnaud) 23. 12:58 PM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (kurt schrader) 24. 01:00 PM - Re: Engine choice - Drag Producers. (kurt schrader) 25. 01:01 PM - Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 (Michel Gordillo) 26. 01:20 PM - Re: Tri-gear mod? (Michael Gibbs) 27. 01:50 PM - Re: Short field T/O (kurt schrader) 28. 02:18 PM - Re: Inspection hatch (flier) 29. 02:24 PM - shut-off valve (Howard Firm) 30. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: Short field T/O (Aerobatics@aol.com) 31. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 () 32. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: Short field T/O (Clifford Begnaud) 33. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Short field T/O (kurt schrader) 34. 06:53 PM - Re: Loctite question (Ceashman@aol.com) 35. 07:01 PM - Re: return for michel was HKS engine (Matt Keyes) 36. 07:29 PM - New to list with question (Roger Rockwell) 37. 07:41 PM - Re: Compas sensor in wing tip (Rick) 38. 07:43 PM - Re: shut-off valve (Rick) 39. 09:33 PM - Kurts Question - 4 wheel aircraft. (RiteAngle3@aol.com) 40. 09:33 PM - Re: Engine Help? (KITFOXPILOT@att.net) 41. 11:54 PM - 618 is out (Kitfox II)! (Patricia Truter) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:01:09 AM PST US From: michel Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: HKS engine --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel >===== Original Message From Matt Keyes ===== >Not sure what cowling mods would need to be done to fit the opposed cylinder HKS. Good question. I have checked this, Matt, and the HKS is two centimeters wider than the Jabiru 2200. So, apart from a new 582, it looks like all the other engines will require a modification of the Model 3 round cowling. Thanks for your help. I am sure that, by next winter, I'll have made up my mind as to what will replace my now ageing 582. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:43 AM PST US From: "hausding, sid" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kalamazoo MI Seminar date set --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" Subject: AeroElectric , Kalamazoo MI, Seminar date set Got the word from folks in Kalamazoo finalizing preparations for a seminar on March 20/21. It will be held in Duncan Aviation's facility on the airport. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars/Kalamazoo.html for details. ----------------------------------------- ( Experience and common sense cannot be ) ( replaced with policy and procedures. ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ----------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:07 AM PST US From: "Jimmie Blackwell" Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" List I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and was wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on page 31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it sure would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate, slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this on about a 3" x 4" screen. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:57 AM PST US From: "Floran Higgins" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tri-gear mod? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" Each person has to decide for himself what kind of an operation he want to have, ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tri-gear mod? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com > > Floran , I live in Va.at the last census we only had 1 Gopher. I think he's > in a Zoo(moved there after the last airplane took off and scared the hell outta > him) Tee Hee.As for the Rocks we have Red Clay here( good ole Tera Ruba) but > no rocks, infact if you find one most people will pay you for it.Tee Hee > again.I have 1,000 Ft. of thick green grass, all of which is, as we speak under 7" > of Snow! I agree with you that off airport flying does take a different kind > of machine but as for me,I'm leaveing the Cow pasture to the Cows(don't want > that green stuff on the bottom of my wings makes em stink > Best > David Cecil > KF950 > > Do not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:56 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Jimmy, There has been a lot of discussion about this product on the RV list in the last week or two. I would suggest doing a search of the RV list at www.matronics.com for "Dynon". Cliff > > I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and was wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on page 31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it sure would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate, slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this on about a 3" x 4" screen. > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:54 AM PST US From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Jimmy, I was actually one of the first 10 or so customers to get the instrument in and flying. I have installed the Dynon in three panels now, one plug and play the other two were aircraft (RV-6A and RV-9A) that I built have test flown. The only thing I can say is WOW. There will be nothing you can do in a Kitfox to saturate it, or gray the screen, it only takes a few seconds for it to catch up. (Big statement, I'm sure someone can but most are smart enough not to try). I have done stall turns, spins, aileron rolls, loops, Cuban eights, -g's. and only once have I saturated the unit, but I was trying! 1.Light 2.replaces your blind encoder 3.has it's own back up power internally 4.the company is wonderful to work with. You call about a question and you get it answered. I like the belt and suspenders so I always add an airspeed and altimeter next to it but you will find that the information is much easier to read on the Dynon and you will not look at the others. For the ultimate check out Grand Rapids Tech's new EFIS that integrates with there EIS and a GPS. Sincerely, Noel Simmons Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574 noel@blueskyaviation.net www.blueskyaviation.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie Blackwell Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" List I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and was wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on page 31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it sure would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate, slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this on about a 3" x 4" screen. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:59 AM PST US From: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. PRIORITY_NO_NAME --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm, and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have the aluminum gear which just hangs out in the breeze, and I made no attempt to bury the "bar" as some people do. (actually a waste of time, since it's all turbulated air underneath anyway, and the bar is inside the boundary layer - But that's another issue that I know many would argue about). I think the real drag producer on the fox is the lift struts, OR the round cowl. I made foam core fiberglass airfoils for my lift struts, based on a recomendation of Dr. Michael Selig at UIUC. The other killer is the round cowl. You could spend the rest of your life airfoiling and smoothing everything else on the plane, but never overcome the drag from that round cowl. It never ceases to amaze me, that people will spend all their time trying to airfoil and smooth everything on a Kitfox, and yet they still have a round cowl on the front ... Some other BIG time waster's are trying to hide all the float attach fittings, gas caps, etc. The Kitfox does not have laminar flow airfoils, smooth glass fueslage, etc. Basically all the air along the fuelage, and wings is turbulent air within 2-3 inches of the skin. You can put pretty much anything you want in this area, and it will NOT affect drag. The things that affect drag on a Kitfox, are items that stick out well into the airstream and have a lot of frontal area. Like the Lift Struts, The cowl, the gear legs and wheels... I think Ron's choice is pretty reasonable actually. If the price is right (and knowing Ron it is) he ends up with a very reliable engine. With a much better history that some of the engine choices I've seen out there. Jeff Hays Original Message: ----------------- From: Lowell Fitt lcfitt@inreach.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Ron, It is interesting that you compare the Whitman Tailwind with the Series 5. My suggestion is that to get 115 cruise, you concentrate on every bit of fairing that you can possibly do. The tailwind is a very clean airplane whereas the 5 as delivered is not so clean. With just a tad more HP than a R-912, my guess is that you will cruise in more the 90 mph range. I fly with a group of 912 UL powered Model IVs, some not so clean and one weighing in at 605 lbs and the general cruise is in the mid 90s. My airplane is very clean and I can get 115, but it is at maximum cruise RPM 5500. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron" > > Hi Milt, > > Jeff Hays hit it right on the head when he said that I would do it because > the price was great. It will cost me $6000 to install a zero time C-85 > with electrical system. A C-85 in a Wittman Tailwind will cruise it at > 145mph. Its empty wt. is the same as the Series 5. My climb rate will be > down to about 600fpm but my cruise should be about 115. The higher hp > engines will show their hp mostly in climb performance. I'll still be a lot > better than a Cessna 140...I'll be happy. I hear that the cost of a new > 912s with firewall forward is over 17K now.......Retirement pension allows > for the C-85 at about 1/3 that cost. > Just got home from Oshkosh where they had the yearly ski plane/ chili fest. > 7 deg temp but no wind and blue skies made for a great day. Lots of neat > planes on skis. No Kitfoxes, darn..... > > Ron N55KF > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Milt's Kitfox Stuff" > > > > > Ron, > > I would do some head scratching before I put a C-85 on a Series V and > > carefully consider a 912 in light of the weight to power ratio. I'm > putting > > a Franklin A-235 on my Series V that offers 125 hp. Once I get it flying > > and put some time on it, I plan to upgrade to high compression pistons > which > > will yield 145 hp. At that power to weight ratio I should have a pretty > > good capability for the cost... about $14-$15K. > > > > Good Luck, > > Milt > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ron" > > To: > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine choice > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron" > > > > > > Hello Listers, > > > > > > I have a Model 5 which I will rebuild in the future and I'm considering > a > > > C-85 with starter and alternator. Has anyone heard of a C-85 in a > Kitfox? > > > > > > Thanks, Ron N55KF > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:58 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Jeff, What prop are you using? Thanks, Cliff > My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm, > and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:47 AM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net Noel, what have you done for magnetic compass when using the dynon? Do Not Archive. John Kerr > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" > > > Jimmy, > > I was actually one of the first 10 or so customers to get the instrument in > and flying. I have installed the Dynon in three panels now, one plug and > play the other two were aircraft (RV-6A and RV-9A) that I built have test > flown. The only thing I can say is WOW. There will be nothing you can do > in a Kitfox to saturate it, or gray the screen, it only takes a few seconds > for it to catch up. (Big statement, I'm sure someone can but most are smart > enough not to try). I have done stall turns, spins, aileron rolls, loops, > Cuban eights, -g's. and only once have I saturated the unit, but I was > trying! > > 1.Light > 2.replaces your blind encoder > 3.has it's own back up power internally > 4.the company is wonderful to work with. You call about a question and > you > get it answered. > > > I like the belt and suspenders so I always add an airspeed and altimeter > next to it but you will find that the information is much easier to read on > the Dynon and you will not look at the others. > > For the ultimate check out Grand Rapids Tech's new EFIS that integrates with > there EIS and a GPS. > > > Sincerely, > > Noel Simmons > Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. > Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574 > noel@blueskyaviation.net > www.blueskyaviation.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie > Blackwell > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" > > List > > I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and was > wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on page > 31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it sure > would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it > provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate, > slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this on > about a 3" x 4" screen. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:59 AM PST US From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" John, You are required by the FAA to have a magnetic compass, so I put one in the normal spot. The Dynon has one too and you will have to mount the fluxgate out in the wing tip way away from metal. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net Noel, what have you done for magnetic compass when using the dynon? Do Not Archive. John Kerr > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" > > > Jimmy, > > I was actually one of the first 10 or so customers to get the instrument in > and flying. I have installed the Dynon in three panels now, one plug and > play the other two were aircraft (RV-6A and RV-9A) that I built have test > flown. The only thing I can say is WOW. There will be nothing you can do > in a Kitfox to saturate it, or gray the screen, it only takes a few seconds > for it to catch up. (Big statement, I'm sure someone can but most are smart > enough not to try). I have done stall turns, spins, aileron rolls, loops, > Cuban eights, -g's. and only once have I saturated the unit, but I was > trying! > > 1.Light > 2.replaces your blind encoder > 3.has it's own back up power internally > 4.the company is wonderful to work with. You call about a question and > you > get it answered. > > > I like the belt and suspenders so I always add an airspeed and altimeter > next to it but you will find that the information is much easier to read on > the Dynon and you will not look at the others. > > For the ultimate check out Grand Rapids Tech's new EFIS that integrates with > there EIS and a GPS. > > > Sincerely, > > Noel Simmons > Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. > Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574 > noel@blueskyaviation.net > www.blueskyaviation.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie > Blackwell > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" > > List > > I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and was > wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on page > 31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it sure > would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it > provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate, > slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this on > about a 3" x 4" screen. > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:21 AM PST US From: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" Hi - I have a Sensenich. It is the standard pitch prop. I get 2200 rpm static at full power on the ground. I have been thinking about ordering a climb prop as well. For the most part I fly throttled back a bit anyway. I generally get about 105 knot's at 22-2400 rpm's in level flight. This would be my typical cruise setting. At redline (2800), it exceeds VNE (140 mph). My empty weight is 967, and I have 12 lb's of ballast behind the trim actuator. My weight is 160, so my usual flying weight is not generally very heavy. In the summer with two aboard I can still get greater than 1000 fpm climb. I have not measured takeoff distance, but it is quite short. I generally do three point takeoff's under full power. Once I can takeoff like the supercub in this video, I'll be happy - http://www.supercub.org/upload/Mov3.mpg Jeff Original Message: ----------------- From: Clifford Begnaud shoeless@barefootpilot.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Jeff, What prop are you using? Thanks, Cliff > My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm, > and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:58 AM PST US From: "dmorisse" Subject: Kitfox-List: Compas sensor in wing tip --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" I've got an electronic compass by Richie that has always been a problem because I have the fluxgate in the baggage area where it's affected each time I put something back there with any metal. I've often considered installing in a wing tip, but was reluctant to do so because of the flapping inertia during travel through turbulence. The sensor has a moving part in it that seems would be sensitive to a lot of bumping around. Is this an issue or should I just install it in the wing tip? Of course it would require getting an extention cable from Richie, but I don't think that it would be a problem. Any opinions? Darrel > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" > > John, > > You are required by the FAA to have a magnetic compass, so I put one in the > normal spot. The Dynon has one too and you will have to mount the fluxgate > out in the wing tip way away from metal. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > kerrjohna@comcast.net > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net > > Noel, what have you done for magnetic compass when using the dynon? Do Not > Archive. > > John Kerr > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" > > > > > > Jimmy, > > > > I was actually one of the first 10 or so customers to get the instrument > in > > and flying. I have installed the Dynon in three panels now, one plug and > > play the other two were aircraft (RV-6A and RV-9A) that I built have test > > flown. The only thing I can say is WOW. There will be nothing you can do > > in a Kitfox to saturate it, or gray the screen, it only takes a few > seconds > > for it to catch up. (Big statement, I'm sure someone can but most are > smart > > enough not to try). I have done stall turns, spins, aileron rolls, loops, > > Cuban eights, -g's. and only once have I saturated the unit, but I was > > trying! > > > > 1.Light > > 2.replaces your blind encoder > > 3.has it's own back up power internally > > 4.the company is wonderful to work with. You call about a > question and > > you > > get it answered. > > > > > > I like the belt and suspenders so I always add an airspeed and altimeter > > next to it but you will find that the information is much easier to read > on > > the Dynon and you will not look at the others. > > > > For the ultimate check out Grand Rapids Tech's new EFIS that integrates > with > > there EIS and a GPS. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Noel Simmons > > Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. > > Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574 > > noel@blueskyaviation.net > > www.blueskyaviation.net > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie > > Blackwell > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" > > > > > List > > > > I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and was > > wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on page > > 31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it > sure > > would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it > > provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate, > > slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this on > > about a 3" x 4" screen. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:21 AM PST US From: "Vic Jacko" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" Cliff, I was about to add a few inches of pitch and go from 47 inches to 50. This probably would not hurt you climb performance much as I could get 2450 RPM static when the engine had just a few hours on it. What are you now getting static on a warm afternoon at your field elevation of 5,0000 feet? I think if you were at sea level you would see near Vne at 2900 RPM. I still think of the old girl N88VJ. You be nice to her! you-hear Jeff, At what altitude are you located and at what altitude do you get Vne? Vic ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" > > > Hi - > > I have a Sensenich. It is the standard pitch prop. I get 2200 rpm > static at full power on the ground. I have been thinking about > ordering a climb prop as well. For the most part I fly throttled > back a bit anyway. I generally get about 105 knot's at 22-2400 > rpm's in level flight. This would be my typical cruise setting. > At redline (2800), it exceeds VNE (140 mph). My empty weight is > 967, and I have 12 lb's of ballast behind the trim actuator. My > weight is 160, so my usual flying weight is not generally very > heavy. In the summer with two aboard I can still get greater than > 1000 fpm climb. I have not measured takeoff distance, but it is > quite short. I generally do three point takeoff's under full > power. > > Once I can takeoff like the supercub in this video, I'll be happy - > http://www.supercub.org/upload/Mov3.mpg > > Jeff > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Clifford Begnaud shoeless@barefootpilot.com > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:14:09 -0700 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > > > Jeff, > What prop are you using? > Thanks, > Cliff > > > My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm, > > and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:26 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Jeff, I can't take off that short either, yet. I have a video of this Gulkana event where this was shot. I think the takeoff roll for this guy was 18'. I also think he is pumping nitrous into the engine. I agree with you though, I'll be happy when I can take off that short. I looked on the Sensenich web site, it says that the standard prop for the Kitfox 5 with IO-240 is W74EK-2-58. Is that it? I assume that means it is a 74" diameter with a 58" pitch? Cliff > Hi - > > I have a Sensenich. It is the standard pitch prop. I get 2200 rpm > static at full power on the ground. I have been thinking about > ordering a climb prop as well. For the most part I fly throttled > back a bit anyway. I generally get about 105 knot's at 22-2400 > rpm's in level flight. This would be my typical cruise setting. > At redline (2800), it exceeds VNE (140 mph). My empty weight is > 967, and I have 12 lb's of ballast behind the trim actuator. My > weight is 160, so my usual flying weight is not generally very > heavy. In the summer with two aboard I can still get greater than > 1000 fpm climb. I have not measured takeoff distance, but it is > quite short. I generally do three point takeoff's under full > power. > > Once I can takeoff like the supercub in this video, I'll be happy - > http://www.supercub.org/upload/Mov3.mpg > > Jeff > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Clifford Begnaud shoeless@barefootpilot.com > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:14:09 -0700 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > > > Jeff, > What prop are you using? > Thanks, > Cliff > > > My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm, > > and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:57 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: Kitfox-List: Inspection hatch --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" I decided to do a few quick circuits on the weekend (weather has been lousy averaging -25 most days). I took off and was climbing when I noticed a huge draft and was surprised to see the bottom of the passenger side door had popped out of the frame. I landed immediately and checked the door which appeared fine. I gave it a little extra tweak and took off again and as soon as my speed approached 80 mph the bottom of the door popped out again. Alarm bells started to ring so I again landed immediately. I checked the door and it was a good tight fit so then I checked the fuselage frame for cracks etc - nothing. I knew that something must have been altering the airflow so I checked the cowl and engine mounts etc but nothing. At this stage I decided I wasn't going to fly until I found what had changed and did a complete walk around. Sure enough, under the rear passenger stabilizer the aluminum access hatch had lost 2 of the forward securing screws and it was bent straight out at 90 degrees to the fuselage. Evidently this had disturbed the airflow causing a low pressure area at the door, sucking it out. Interestingly there was no noticeable control change and the ball was centered in flight as one of the first things I suspected was that I was flying uncoordinated and inducing a low pressure area. I have now included checking the access hatches during my walk around..... Gary Algate ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:25 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Do not archive Interesting things to note in the film: 1. It is a tail dragger and not a nose wheeled plane. 2. At his power and with brakes locked, the taildragger still doesn't nose over. He is in control. 3. Why raise the tail at all? Kurt S. > > Hi - > > > > I have a Sensenich. It is the standard pitch prop. > I get 2200 rpm > > static at full power on the ground. I have been > thinking about > > ordering a climb prop as well. .................................... > > Once I can takeoff like the supercub in this > video, I'll be happy - > > http://www.supercub.org/upload/Mov3.mpg > > > > Jeff __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:19 PM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" You can accelerate far quicker with the tail raised. I don't think he even needs wings on that puppy. Gary Algate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Why raise the tail at all? <<<<<<<<<<<<<< ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:57 PM PST US From: Aerobatics@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com Why raise the tail? 1) Better visability 2) More control of rudder 3) Faster acceleration due to less drag Oh, did I say better visability!! kinda important :-) especially in a KF 2 Dave KF 2 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:21 PM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Hi Vic, I've been seeing 2450 static lately. Actually, I would like to try a 76x 45 prop, or something like that. The objective would be to achieve a shorter takeoff roll. I'm more interested in that phase of flight that I am in going faster. You are correct, it will red line near sea level. Don't worry, I love my baby! ;-) Cliff > > Cliff, > > I was about to add a few inches of pitch and go from 47 inches to 50. This > probably would not hurt you climb performance much as I could get 2450 RPM > static when the engine had just a few hours on it. What are you now > getting static on a warm afternoon at your field elevation of 5,0000 feet? > I think if you were at sea level you would see near Vne at 2900 RPM. I > still think of the old girl N88VJ. You be nice to her! you-hear > > > Jeff, > > > At what altitude are you located and at what altitude do you get Vne? > > Vic > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" > > > > > > > Hi - > > > > I have a Sensenich. It is the standard pitch prop. I get 2200 rpm > > static at full power on the ground. I have been thinking about > > ordering a climb prop as well. For the most part I fly throttled > > back a bit anyway. I generally get about 105 knot's at 22-2400 > > rpm's in level flight. This would be my typical cruise setting. > > At redline (2800), it exceeds VNE (140 mph). My empty weight is > > 967, and I have 12 lb's of ballast behind the trim actuator. My > > weight is 160, so my usual flying weight is not generally very > > heavy. In the summer with two aboard I can still get greater than > > 1000 fpm climb. I have not measured takeoff distance, but it is > > quite short. I generally do three point takeoff's under full > > power. > > > > Once I can takeoff like the supercub in this video, I'll be happy - > > http://www.supercub.org/upload/Mov3.mpg > > > > Jeff > > > > > > Original Message: > > ----------------- > > From: Clifford Begnaud shoeless@barefootpilot.com > > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:14:09 -0700 > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > > > > > > Jeff, > > What prop are you using? > > Thanks, > > Cliff > > > > > My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm, > > > and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:19 PM PST US From: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" Vic - I fly in Illinois, most of my flying is around 3000 ft. msl. Jeff Hays. Original Message: ----------------- From: Vic Jacko vicwj@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" Cliff, I was about to add a few inches of pitch and go from 47 inches to 50. This probably would not hurt you climb performance much as I could get 2450 RPM static when the engine had just a few hours on it. What are you now getting static on a warm afternoon at your field elevation of 5,0000 feet? I think if you were at sea level you would see near Vne at 2900 RPM. I still think of the old girl N88VJ. You be nice to her! you-hear Jeff, At what altitude are you located and at what altitude do you get Vne? Vic ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" > > > Hi - > > I have a Sensenich. It is the standard pitch prop. I get 2200 rpm > static at full power on the ground. I have been thinking about > ordering a climb prop as well. For the most part I fly throttled > back a bit anyway. I generally get about 105 knot's at 22-2400 > rpm's in level flight. This would be my typical cruise setting. > At redline (2800), it exceeds VNE (140 mph). My empty weight is > 967, and I have 12 lb's of ballast behind the trim actuator. My > weight is 160, so my usual flying weight is not generally very > heavy. In the summer with two aboard I can still get greater than > 1000 fpm climb. I have not measured takeoff distance, but it is > quite short. I generally do three point takeoff's under full > power. > > Once I can takeoff like the supercub in this video, I'll be happy - > http://www.supercub.org/upload/Mov3.mpg > > Jeff > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Clifford Begnaud shoeless@barefootpilot.com > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:14:09 -0700 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > > > Jeff, > What prop are you using? > Thanks, > Cliff > > > My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm, > > and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:13 PM PST US From: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" Cliff - Pretty sure that is the prop, I'd have to go out to the airport to be sure. Only thing else about the prop, is that I have a a 2" wide by 2' piece of trimbrite chip protector tape on the leading edge. I think it is a 10 mil tape. Anyway, after flying in the rain once, I decided I better do something to protect the prop, as the varnish mostly dissapeared from the leading edge. Since then I have flown in the rain several times, and no problems with the prop. The tape is really tough, and did not hurt performance at all. Jeff Original Message: ----------------- From: Clifford Begnaud shoeless@barefootpilot.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Jeff, I can't take off that short either, yet. I have a video of this Gulkana event where this was shot. I think the takeoff roll for this guy was 18'. I also think he is pumping nitrous into the engine. I agree with you though, I'll be happy when I can take off that short. I looked on the Sensenich web site, it says that the standard prop for the Kitfox 5 with IO-240 is W74EK-2-58. Is that it? I assume that means it is a 74" diameter with a 58" pitch? Cliff > Hi - > > I have a Sensenich. It is the standard pitch prop. I get 2200 rpm > static at full power on the ground. I have been thinking about > ordering a climb prop as well. For the most part I fly throttled > back a bit anyway. I generally get about 105 knot's at 22-2400 > rpm's in level flight. This would be my typical cruise setting. > At redline (2800), it exceeds VNE (140 mph). My empty weight is > 967, and I have 12 lb's of ballast behind the trim actuator. My > weight is 160, so my usual flying weight is not generally very > heavy. In the summer with two aboard I can still get greater than > 1000 fpm climb. I have not measured takeoff distance, but it is > quite short. I generally do three point takeoff's under full > power. > > Once I can takeoff like the supercub in this video, I'll be happy - > http://www.supercub.org/upload/Mov3.mpg > > Jeff > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Clifford Begnaud shoeless@barefootpilot.com > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:14:09 -0700 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > > > Jeff, > What prop are you using? > Thanks, > Cliff > > > My series 5 with my IO-240B cruises at 120 mph at 2200 rpm, > > and I can exceed VNE in level flight at full throttle. I have > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:03 PM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Kitfox-List: Gulkana, was: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > Do not archive Kurt wrote: > Interesting things to note in the film: > > 1. It is a tail dragger and not a nose wheeled plane. Yes, but one with extended gear and large tires. This raises the angle of incedence of the wing when "tail down" (this is good for short field work) > 2. At his power and with brakes locked, the > taildragger still doesn't nose over. He is in > control. Note that he released the brakes when the tail lifted to his desired point. Had he held the brakes any longer, he would have needed a new prop. Our plane will do the same; that is it will nose over if you don't release the brakes after lifting the tail. First time I did it, I almost lost it, scared the crap out of me. > > 3. Why raise the tail at all? > This is the Gulkana, AK contest! He was trying to shave inches off the take-off roll. Raising the tail reduced drag for the two and a half seconds that he was rolling. Cliff ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:31 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader You must not have seen the movie. He powers up with brakes locked and raises the tail statically. Once horizontal, he releases the brakes and drops the tail. The total takeoff roll is about 1.5 plane lengths and takes about 2 seconds. Visibility isn't much of an issue there. At best, he looks before brake release. Maybe he can pick up a swerve from bad brake release faster and correct? Control is almost certainly based upon how well he releases the brakes together, not rudder. I don't see the rudder moving much in the movie. Even "P" factor is hardly important since he goes from level to nose up in 1.5 seconds of brake release. Gyroscopic force is more important with his pitch rate. And accelleration vs drag? There is a breeze blowing. That and his speed at lift off is maybe 25 mph? The faster half of that is with the tail back down. I assume that he had a reason that he found in practice. He drives the tail wheel down hard, which may give another degree of AOA for liftoff, before busting the spring. Then again, he may always use this method, but without the hard tail wheel drop, for off airport takeoffs to save the tailwheel on rough stuff. Kurt S. --- Aerobatics@aol.com wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > Aerobatics@aol.com > > Why raise the tail? > > 1) Better visability > > 2) More control of rudder > > 3) Faster acceleration due to less drag > > > Oh, did I say better visability!! kinda important > :-) > > especially in a KF 2 > > Dave KF 2 __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:50 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine choice - Drag Producers. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader I would agree with a longer takeoff roll, but he only spends the first 20 feet with the tail wheel off the ground. Not much aero drag produced there. Kurt S. --- Gary Algate wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > > > > You can accelerate far quicker with the tail raised. > I don't think he even > needs wings on that puppy. > > Gary Algate __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:05 PM PST US From: "Michel Gordillo" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel Gordillo" Hi . I have also tested it and compared with the RC Allen and also with a Gyrolaser. It is mandatory to have the pitot airspeed input in order to have it working properly, so it is not independent like other gyros. Another small problem is that during the take off, it indicates a pitch up caused by acceleration. Those are the cons. Everything else y very nice and I like it. Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmie Blackwell" Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" > > List > > I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and was wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on page 31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it sure would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate, slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this on about a 3" x 4" screen. > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:18 PM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tri-gear mod? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" > >It doesn't take much of a rock or gopher hole to overstress the attachment >point where the nose wheel attaches to the frame. Some nosewheels are sturdier than others. The SkyStar nosewheel doesn't strike me as one of the more rugged ones, although I know folks like Phil Laker who took his on one of the Alaska trips and landed everywhere the taildraggers landed with no difficulties. It doesn't take much of a rock or gopher hole to send a taildragger into the weeds or even flip it over, either. >Also the prop tips are much closer to the ground. Proper technique is necessary regardless of which end the third wheel is at. A well-executed, soft-field takeoff in a nosewheeled airplane with substantial up-elevator applied will raise the prop very shortly after take-off power is applied--in some airplanes even before you start moving. >There are reasons that people that operate routinely off airport fly >taildraggers. And there are plenty of nose wheel aircraft operating off airport routinely. There are advantages and disadvantages to each and, in any given situation, one may be better suited to the mission than the other. Mike G. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:59 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Short field T/O --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Well this is fun. At least there is life here again. Did you notice that he uses no up elevator while holding the brakes? He uses down elevator only after the tail is up and brakes released? The tail does come up mostly from power alone, but would probably drop 1/2 second too soon for him when he releases the brakes. If he wanted to, he could have used up elevator to stop the tail rising with more power, or at least delaying it for most of the powerup to hold it level. I think he does it for less drag too. I am afraid of holding full power with brakes on in my plane too. But I think it would slide on grass first. I just don't want to chance it. Maybe I should put a scale tht can be read at a distance under the tail while powering up and using the elevator. Reduce power when it gets too close. See if I can get all 143 HP in. I wonder just how much he saved in takeoff roll by leveling the plane first? Maybe none given so little drag saved versus wheel and elevator drag used. I bet he had those big tires pumped up (to maybe 5 lbs?) for less ground drag too. If it were a nose wheeled plane the proceedure would be? And the results would be? I am done with this. You all can continue if you want. Just thought I would take my mind off the ice storm here and dream of really short T/O's in a Fox. Kurt S. --- Clifford Begnaud wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford > Begnaud" > > > Do not archive > Kurt wrote: > > Interesting things to note in the film: > > > > 1. It is a tail dragger and not a nose wheeled > plane. > > Yes, but one with extended gear and large tires. > This raises the angle of > incedence of the wing when "tail down" (this is good > for short field work) > > > 2. At his power and with brakes locked, the > > taildragger still doesn't nose over. He is in > > control. > > Note that he released the brakes when the tail > lifted to his desired point. > Had he held the brakes any longer, he would have > needed a new prop. Our > plane will do the same; that is it will nose over if > you don't release the > brakes after lifting the tail. First time I did it, > I almost lost it, > scared the crap out of me. > > > > 3. Why raise the tail at all? > > > This is the Gulkana, AK contest! He was trying to > shave inches off the > take-off roll. Raising the tail reduced drag for the > two and a half seconds > that he was rolling. > > Cliff __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:03 PM PST US From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Inspection hatch A couple of times in the past after I've been doing really steep slips, the port door latch has worked itself loose and the door has flown open. Only once with a passenger. Either during downwind or on final. Talk about a swift pucker! Even though you know you can't fall out, the wind and noise when that sucker comes open unexpectedly is... exhilarating...to say the least. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Regards, Ted --- Original Message --- From: "Gary Algate" Subject: Kitfox-List: Inspection hatch >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > >I decided to do a few quick circuits on the weekend (weather has been lousy >averaging -25 most days). I took off and was climbing when I noticed a huge >draft and was surprised to see the bottom of the passenger side door had >popped out of the frame. I landed immediately and checked the door which >appeared fine. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:24 PM PST US From: "Howard Firm" Subject: Kitfox-List: shut-off valve --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" Anyone know where I can get a fuel shutoff valve....just one way. AS has quit supplying the on/off one way valves. Howard Firm 508 12th St. South Virginia MN 55792 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:20 PM PST US From: Aerobatics@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Short field T/O --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com Well............... My strip is 850 feet, (keeps out those Lears from visiting) and on a calm warm (hot) humid day, full fuel, with a passenger ....it may not seem important, but I Power up slowly with full UP until the plane starts to skid on the grass, then I go full power and release the brakes at the same time. Then, in about a second almost full down is applied to level the plane and I adjust elevator as speed builds to 35 to 37 mph, then rotate. If the day is hot, at gross, Ill drop a bit of flap at time of rotation, then slowly remove shortly after TO. I am sure there are many ways, as we can see from here.... but this seems to be the best combo on my short grass strip. Also, this is with a KF2 with a 582 and IVO prop and loving it! in fact the past 18 months I have put almost 200 hours on her.... and I will replace the 582, with a..... 582.... Dave ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:57 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Can you guys talk about "update rates"? How often does the display update? Does it semm to "keep up"? Thanx ds > > From: "Michel Gordillo" > Date: 2004/01/26 Mon PM 09:00:49 GMT > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:10 PM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Short field T/O --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > Well this is fun. At least there is life here again. Kurt, yes this is fun stuff! > Did you notice that he uses no up elevator while > holding the brakes? He uses down elevator only after > the tail is up and brakes released? The tail does > come up mostly from power alone, but would probably > drop 1/2 second too soon for him when he releases the > brakes. If he wanted to, he could have used up > elevator to stop the tail rising with more power, or > at least delaying it for most of the powerup to hold > it level. When I did it the first time in our Kitfox and the nose kept dropping, I tried up elevator to stop it, but it didn't. I released the brakes just in the nick of time to avoid a prop strike. Not sure how the cub would react. I have two more short video clips from the same Gulkana event, one takeoff and one landing. This pilot used a similar, but slightly different technique that I'm sure you would find interesting. I tried to upload the clips to Sportflight, but it didn't work. Can anyone post the two videos? One is 2.6 meg the other 3 megs. > > I am afraid of holding full power with brakes on in my > plane too. But I think it would slide on grass first. > I just don't want to chance it. Maybe I should put a > scale tht can be read at a distance under the tail > while powering up and using the elevator. Reduce > power when it gets too close. See if I can get all > 143 HP in. Careful when you do it! Release the brakes quickly when the plane gets level. You may not be able to stop it with elevator. > > I wonder just how much he saved in takeoff roll by > leveling the plane first? Maybe none given so little > drag saved versus wheel and elevator drag used. I bet > he had those big tires pumped up (to maybe 5 lbs?) for > less ground drag too. I'll bet he tried it different ways before the contest. I doubt he would have done it this way if it wasn't effective at shaving a few feet. The pilot in the other video clip that I have, raised his tail also. > > If it were a nose wheeled plane the proceedure would > be? And the results would be? Brakes, full power, pull on the stick.... Results? I guess it depends if the trigear plane can achieve a higher angle, all else being equal. Even then it may not matter because these supercubs sit at a very high angle because of extended gear and large tires. They are probably at the optimum angle and any more wouldn't help. Best Regards, Cliff ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:38 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Short field T/O --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Cliff, This is how we dream, isn't it? Imagining those things we can do with our planes. I wonder if anyone had built a 4 wheel plane like the COD C-2's have? Put the mains right about at the CG and use which ever 3rd wheel best fits the situation... Rock forward and the mains are behind the CG. Rock back and use the tailwheel. A little more drag than just a nose wheel I know, but it covers all situations except water/snow landings. :-) And what about that old KitFox byplane? How short was that takeoff? Well, I am installing VG's for sure... Too much fun. I got work to do. Later, Kurt S. __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:30 PM PST US From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Loctite question --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com Hello Jay. The Loctite that was mentioned was # 609 (green) I have ordered from Lockwood Aviation Supply but it is on "backorder" So I have no idea when it arrives. The cost for a . 34oz bottle is $15.95, I guess it is precious (right now it is! Its "backorder") The O rings are also precious! at $8.13 each. I replaced only the O rings last weekend but haven't the opportunity to fire her up yet 'cause of the weather. I hope that the ring change will cure the leaks. And by looking at the situation, it is the O ring that is the first line of defense. If it fails then I can't see the flange or elbow holding anything back. Cheers. Eric, IV. 912 e-mail; ceashman@aol.com ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:36 PM PST US From: Matt Keyes Subject: RE: Kitfox-List:return for michel was HKS engine --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Keyes Michel, Glad you found the web sites usefull. Keep me posted through the list on what you decide and how it goes. I am a long way off from begining my project, so I am deep into the research stage and still trying to gather information from companies and from real experiences like the ones found within this great list! Matt Do Not Archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:25 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: New to list with question From: Roger Rockwell --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Roger Rockwell Hi Kitfoxers, I'm new to the list. I've been hanging around for a few days and reading some of the archives. There is a lot of great stuff here. I am planning on ordering the Series 7. I have also found a Model III that may have potential. I have about 450 hours in a Cessna 172. (IFR). No tail dragger time. I am considering buying the Model III to build time in while building the Series 7. Now for the question. What things should I look for in the Model III pre-purchase inspection? It has about 500hrsTT with 200SMOH on Rotax 582 Any hints or suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Roger Rockwell ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:41 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Compas sensor in wing tip --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" OK Guys lets get an independent among us to call the EAA and get an answer. I did this some time ago. You do not have to have a compass in an experimental VFR aircraft. Please post the response for all to see. You may want, need, like or are use to but don't have to, have one. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of dmorisse Subject: Kitfox-List: Compas sensor in wing tip --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" I've got an electronic compass by Richie that has always been a problem because I have the fluxgate in the baggage area where it's affected each time I put something back there with any metal. I've often considered installing in a wing tip, but was reluctant to do so because of the flapping inertia during travel through turbulence. The sensor has a moving part in it that seems would be sensitive to a lot of bumping around. Is this an issue or should I just install it in the wing tip? Of course it would require getting an extention cable from Richie, but I don't think that it would be a problem. Any opinions? Darrel > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" > > John, > > You are required by the FAA to have a magnetic compass, so I put one in the > normal spot. The Dynon has one too and you will have to mount the fluxgate > out in the wing tip way away from metal. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > kerrjohna@comcast.net > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net > > Noel, what have you done for magnetic compass when using the dynon? Do Not > Archive. > > John Kerr > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" > > > > > > Jimmy, > > > > I was actually one of the first 10 or so customers to get the instrument > in > > and flying. I have installed the Dynon in three panels now, one plug and > > play the other two were aircraft (RV-6A and RV-9A) that I built have test > > flown. The only thing I can say is WOW. There will be nothing you can do > > in a Kitfox to saturate it, or gray the screen, it only takes a few > seconds > > for it to catch up. (Big statement, I'm sure someone can but most are > smart > > enough not to try). I have done stall turns, spins, aileron rolls, loops, > > Cuban eights, -g's. and only once have I saturated the unit, but I was > > trying! > > > > 1.Light > > 2.replaces your blind encoder > > 3.has it's own back up power internally > > 4.the company is wonderful to work with. You call about a > question and > > you > > get it answered. > > > > > > I like the belt and suspenders so I always add an airspeed and altimeter > > next to it but you will find that the information is much easier to read > on > > the Dynon and you will not look at the others. > > > > For the ultimate check out Grand Rapids Tech's new EFIS that integrates > with > > there EIS and a GPS. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Noel Simmons > > Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. > > Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574 > > noel@blueskyaviation.net > > www.blueskyaviation.net > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie > > Blackwell > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Dynon Avionics EFIS D10 > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" > > > > > List > > > > I noted a product in the last issue of Kitplanes that is new to me and was > > wondering if anyone on the list has tested this instrument. It is on page > > 31 one of the February issue of Kitplanes. If it does what they say it > sure > > would save a lot of instrument panel space and possibly weight as it > > provides an attitude indicator, airspeed, altitude, compass, turn rate, > > slip/skid ball, clock, gmeter, vertical speed and voltmeter. All this on > > about a 3" x 4" screen. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:43 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: shut-off valve --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" Howard , not even the Adair? Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Howard Firm Subject: Kitfox-List: shut-off valve --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" Anyone know where I can get a fuel shutoff valve....just one way. AS has quit supplying the on/off one way valves. Howard Firm 508 12th St. South Virginia MN 55792 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:00 PM PST US From: RiteAngle3@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Kurts Question - 4 wheel aircraft. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com In a message dated 1/26/04 6:19:09 PM Pacific Standard Time, smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes: I wonder if anyone had built a 4 wheel plane like the COD C-2's have? Put the mains right about at the CG and use which ever 3rd wheel best fits the situation... Rock forward and the mains are behind the CG. Rock back and use the tailwheel. A little more drag than just a nose wheel I know, but it covers all situations except water/snow landings. :-) There was a conversion for the J-3 that had a nosewheel & retained the tailwheel. I worked for the man that invented it, Ray was managing the Tulsa North airport at the time I flew it in Tulsa, OK. now known as Downtown Airport I believe. It was called the Testerman Gear. I flew it in '62 or so. Was a little more balanced than a Tri Champ. Then the Europa monogear has 4 wheels, one main, two outriggers & a tailwheel :-) And the O'Neil Aristocraft, Taylor AeroCar and so on ~~ + nearly all the amphibious float planes. Elbie I must be getting old :-) ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:00 PM PST US From: KITFOXPILOT@att.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine Help? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net I asked a fellow pilot friend, he said just stay out of the FRZ, fly the ADIS and make sure you get your SQUAK code. He said AOPA has all the questions about the ADIS for the area. I have not flown in the new ADIS, but I don't think it will be that bad. I hope this helps. Ray > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " > > Ray, > > I had talked to you earlier about flying to Freeway Airport. My only > concern was that Freeway is smack in the center of the Washington, DC > ADIZ. You were going to find out what the ADIZ approach procedure was > to enter Freeway. I am not sure about "Condition Yellow", but for > "Condition Orange" you had to first fly to another designated airport > (don't remember the airport name) for inspection prior to proceeding to > Freeway. Do Not Archive. > > -- > John King > Warrenton, VA > > > KITFOXPILOT@att.net wrote: > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net > > > >Is there anyone in the DC,MD,VA, that would be willing to drive or fly down > >to Freeway Airport located in Mitchellville MD, to help me adjust my carbs > >and give my plane a good looks over? Help! > > > >Ray N2BH > >Model IV 1200 912S > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:03 PM PST US From: "Patricia Truter" Subject: Kitfox-List: 618 is out (Kitfox II)! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Patricia Truter" I don't know if you can still remember: I had some problems with my 618 (lost +- 500 revs and power). The engine only had 100 hours on. MANY people worked on it, gave advice, etc. We even exchanged the crank shaft with another to see if that could be the problem. The bottom line: we spent about R30 (US$4 000) on the 618 with NO improvement and finally we bought a new 582 (blue top). We are now working on the marriage of the 582/99 with our Kitfox II. Now, that exhaust system needs "folding up" inside the cowls and this can be an exercise taking much longer than we have time for. If we could get a head start, that would help a lot. Any pics / drawings / ideas perhaps available of what other flyers did to fit the 582 exhaust into the KF II cowls? Regards Patricia (I haven't been flying for almost 6 months now) :-( -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks transtec Computers for their support.