Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:31 AM - Re: Re: NSI/CAP prop rpm (kurt schrader)
2. 01:43 AM - Re: Re: NSI/CAP prop rpm (kurt schrader)
3. 03:53 AM - Re: Knight Upholstery for Kitfox (Tc9008@aol.com)
4. 05:35 AM - Re: 2 stroke oil (Tom Jones)
5. 05:51 AM - Re: Re: NSI/CAP prop rpm (Rick)
6. 06:13 AM - Re: Apolgies to the list + Mig Welding correction (Dcecil3@aol.com)
7. 07:07 AM - Re: Classic IV - Instrument Panel Cover (Dash Cover) Installation (Lowell Fitt)
8. 07:19 AM - Re: 2 stroke oil (Mike Peters)
9. 07:31 AM - Offline Email from the list (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
10. 08:04 AM - Aericet floats (Gary Algate)
11. 08:43 AM - Re: Aericet floats (JMCBEAN)
12. 09:05 AM - Skystar Wallpaper (Gary Algate)
13. 09:06 AM - Re: Aerocet floats (Gary Algate)
14. 09:29 AM - Re: Offline Email from the list (dmorisse)
15. 10:31 AM - Mass Balance Weights for Speedster (Jimmie Blackwell)
16. 11:20 AM - Let's try to be constructive (Scott McClintock)
17. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: Michel, Jabi 2200 (Michel Verheughe)
18. 12:08 PM - Re: Aericet floats (John Oakley)
19. 12:21 PM - Re: Heating problem (Michel Verheughe)
20. 12:21 PM - Re: Aericet floats (Gary Algate)
21. 01:11 PM - Re: Let's try to be constructive (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
22. 01:44 PM - Re: Heat transition. (Was: heating problem) (Torgeir Mortensen)
23. 02:14 PM - Re: Let's try to be constructive (Torgeir Mortensen)
24. 02:43 PM - Re: Heat transition. (Michel Verheughe)
25. 02:46 PM - Re: Kitfox-List-opinions (Dee Young)
26. 03:16 PM - Re: Let's try to be constructive (Kenneth and Alice Jones)
27. 03:17 PM - Re: Let's try to be constructive (Ron)
28. 03:33 PM - Re: Let's try to be constructive (Noel & Yoshie Simmons)
29. 04:59 PM - Re: Let's try to be constructive (algate@attglobal.net)
30. 05:08 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List-opinions (Jeff Hays)
31. 06:14 PM - Re: Let's try to be constructive (Bruce Lina)
32. 06:21 PM - Re: Reduction drive (out put module) ratio (Rick)
33. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: Spark plugs (kurt schrader)
34. 07:02 PM - Wheel Pants (Scotty)
35. 07:03 PM - Re: 912-S Oil Cooler Failures (John E. King)
36. 07:04 PM - Re: Reduction drive (out put module) ratio (kurt schrader)
37. 08:14 PM - Re: Let's try to be constructive (aselia.com)
38. 08:25 PM - Re: Heat transition. (Brian Peck)
39. 09:06 PM - Re: Wheel Pants (Rick)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RE: NSI/CAP prop rpm |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
It might well be the plugs Torgier. I have just 10
hours on the plane, but it doesn't take long to foul
plugs. It sure would make me feel better if that is
all it takes to make it run better. These are
inexpensive compared to most any other fix. Just
automotive plugs.
Kurt S.
--- Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen
> <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Aha, you have one of these modern thing...
>
> A "freewheeling" propeller.
>
> Wish I had such a "device", but -, the expenses ...
> :) ..
>
> I'll think the others are right, about the spark
> plug.
>
> Cheers
>
> Torgeir.
__________________________________
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RE: NSI/CAP prop rpm |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
It does have the Ellison carb Darrel. My total time
on the engine is only 10 yours. It ran rough by the
second hour, then Tom Anderson clued me in on the idle
mixture and that helped a lot. Later Lance said it
was the plugs instead. As soon as I have the time to
do the next 50 "gotta' doos", I'll change those plugs
and see. If it fixes the problem, I can adjust that
idle mixture back.
It would be nice to get everything running and working
smoothly at the same time - just once... I think I
need a vacation. :-)
Thanks for the help.
Kurt S.
--- dmorisse <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse"
> <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Does the turbo use the Ellison Kurt? I've
> never touched mine as it
> was set from the factory and after 270 hours it
> still meters perfectly. The
> only problem I've ever had with my engine was about
> 60 hours ago when the
> EGTs would be erratic, it would miss under takeoff
> load, and left ignition
> would have a large drop. After a bunch of trouble
> shooting and
> unnecessarily replacing the ignition pickup
> assembly, it turned out to be
> the spark plugs. Popped in a new set and problem
> solved. I had been sand
> blasting them about every 50 hours and that
> apparently caused some damage to
> the insulators. From now on I'll just replace them
> every 100 hours.
> Cheap and easy.
> Darrel
__________________________________
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Knight Upholstery for Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tc9008@aol.com
I have a 1997 kitfox model 4 . Do you have any pics of your covers and
interiors?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke oil |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <fire_n_ice@direcway.com>
> What is the best 2 stroke oil to use on a 1997 kitfos model IV 582 rotax?
I
> can't find the pennzoil for air cooled engines.
This place has the best price I have found on two cycle oil, even with
shipping costs added.
<http://oil-store.com/> Penzoil for air cooled 2 strokes is less than
$1/pt.
Tom Jones
Message 5
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| Subject: | RE: NSI/CAP prop rpm |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Guys, on the plugs. It doesn't take a lot to foul them. Try to taxi at as
lean a positions as you can. Also forget the full rich on landing setting.
That is sure to foul em up. If you need a go around just remember both balls
to the wall.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: NSI/CAP prop rpm
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
It might well be the plugs Torgier. I have just 10
hours on the plane, but it doesn't take long to foul
plugs. It sure would make me feel better if that is
all it takes to make it run better. These are
inexpensive compared to most any other fix. Just
automotive plugs.
Kurt S.
--- Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen
> <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Aha, you have one of these modern thing...
>
> A "freewheeling" propeller.
>
> Wish I had such a "device", but -, the expenses ...
> :) ..
>
> I'll think the others are right, about the spark
> plug.
>
> Cheers
>
> Torgeir.
__________________________________
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Apolgies to the list + Mig Welding correction |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
I think that's what this site is all about opinions(Ideas?)As far as the MIG
question goes I intend to reinforce my rudder pedals with gussets welded in
with the MIG you just have to watch the heat(Lower setting) . I highly recommend
Practicing on a scrap tube, if you don't have any order a 1 Ft. piece from
Aircraft Spruce It'll be the best $8.00 you ever spent. Mig welders on this thin
material make excellent cutting torches so WATCH OUT!!!!!!!!!
Best to All
David Cecil
KF950
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Classic IV - Instrument Panel Cover (Dash Cover) Installation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Grant, I would worry most about the clearance between the tank bottom and
the engine. The engine will move a bit when running because of the rubber
in the mount. I used a bit of neoprene foam to prevent the cowl rubbing on
the cap.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Fluent" <gjfpilot@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Classic IV - Instrument Panel Cover (Dash Cover)
Installation
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent <gjfpilot@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks Gary, Lowell, and Bob for your tips on filling
> the holes in the cowling. It looks like that's what
> I'll have to do.
> I temporarily installed the oil tank and sure
> enough, the cap hits on the top cowling enough that I
> can't get the quarter turn fasteners latched. The cap
> is the low profile one that Skystar supplied.
> I tried again removing the quarter turn fasteners in
> the lower cowling and positioned it about 1/4" higher
> and 1/4" forward holding it in place with spring
> clamps. Now I have about 1/32"-1/16" clearance from
> the oil cap to the top cowling. Does this sound
> correct or do I need more clearance? The oil tank is
> as low as I can get it - the hex sticking out of the
> bottom is touching the engine case.
> Grant Fluent
> Newcastle, NE
> Classic IV 912S
>
>
> --- Bob Unternaehrer <shilocom@c-magic.com> wrote:
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob
> > Unternaehrer" <shilocom@c-magic.com>
> >
> > Grant,, You might try some fiberglass re-inforced
> > Polyester that is
> > available at the auto parts stores (ours is called
> > "short haired fiberglass,
> > long haired also available ...really). I've done
> > this by placing a small
> > patch of fiberglass cloth (1" sq or so, folded a
> > couple of times) behind the
> > hole, attaching it with the short haired fiberglass
> > and filling the old hole
> > with the short haired fiberglass. rough everything
> > up prior to patching.
> > Bob U.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 2 stroke oil |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Peters <mjp103@yahoo.com>
Walmart by me, has Pennzoil Air-Cooled, but I got the
best deal by looking up the local Pennzoil
distributorship in my area in the yellow pages, then
bought it by the case. I now use Danny Day's
relabeled oil which is compatible with gasohol, is not
synthetic, but mixes 100:1.
Mike Peters
--- Tc9008@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tc9008@aol.com
>
> What is the best 2 stroke oil to use on a 1997
> kitfos model IV 582 rotax? I
> can't find the pennzoil for air cooled engines.
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Message 9
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| Subject: | Offline Email from the list |
PRIORITY_NO_NAME
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
List -
I usually don't post people's offline email messages, but
after two from Lowell, the first of which I apologized for
openly on the list, and the apology contained within the
body of this email. I have to admit I'm human, and this
one makes me a little annoyed, so I'll be childish and just
post it for the benefit of all to read.
I'll admit I would post the first as well, if I had not
already deleted it - Rats. It's a shame too, since the
first one was written much better, with more depth, and
greater detail.
I am not going to participate in any flame wars on this
list period. But certainly if I get any negative offline
email's I will certainly post them for the benefit of
the list.
One exception, being of course my long standing engine feud
with Cliff.
Regards,
Jeff Hays
Jeff,
Consider the following statements.
In my opinion, your opinion sucks.
"Be honest also," your opinion sucks.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Kitfox note offlist - This is not a nastygram.
>
> Lowell -
>
> Look, somehow we've got off on the wrong foot. And perhaps it is my
> doing. In any case, this is to apologize if I've offended you.
>
> I am highly opinionated, and so are you. It would seem that we are
> frequently at odds. In any case, I will for my part try to be a bit
> more open minded, and perhaps a bit less confrontational.
>
> I'm pretty passionate about airplane building, and sometimes I
> say more than I should. Anyway, like I said, it was not my intent to
> offend anybody.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff Hays
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Can anyone on the list tell me where I can find a supplier for Aerocet 1200
floats
Best regards
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
Gary,
You could try this link.. http://www.mnseaplanes.org/new_page_2.htm I'm not
sure the 1200 are still available.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Algate
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aericet floats
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Can anyone on the list tell me where I can find a supplier for Aerocet 1200
floats
Best regards
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
Message 12
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| Subject: | Skystar Wallpaper |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
I guess I get bragging rights this Month. A friend of mine was looking at
the Skystar Home site and checked out the February Wallpaper and found my
C-IGVW.
This is the photo taken in my back yard before it's first flight
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Thanks John
I'll give them a try
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JMCBEAN
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Aericet floats
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
Gary,
You could try this link.. http://www.mnseaplanes.org/new_page_2.htm
I'm not sure the 1200 are still available.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Algate
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aericet floats
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Can anyone on the list tell me where I can find a supplier for Aerocet 1200
floats
Best regards
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Offline Email from the list |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dmorisse" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Jeff, Lowell's opinion message was sent to you privately for the sole
purpose of not starting any flame wars, yet you posted it publicly for the
purpose of doing just that. It was his private opinion to YOU and nobody
else. You stated below that you would not participate in any flame wars,
but you don't hesitate to start one. This is the very reason you were
removed from the List a couple years ago. Do not forward any private emails
to this list that should be handled offlist. First and last warning.
Darrel Morisse
List Administrator
----- Original Message -----
From: <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Offline Email from the list
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
<jeff.hays@aselia.com>
>
>
> List -
>
> I usually don't post people's offline email messages, but
> after two from Lowell, the first of which I apologized for
> openly on the list, and the apology contained within the
> body of this email. I have to admit I'm human, and this
> one makes me a little annoyed, so I'll be childish and just
> post it for the benefit of all to read.
>
> I'll admit I would post the first as well, if I had not
> already deleted it - Rats. It's a shame too, since the
> first one was written much better, with more depth, and
> greater detail.
>
> I am not going to participate in any flame wars on this
> list period. But certainly if I get any negative offline
> email's I will certainly post them for the benefit of
> the list.
>
> One exception, being of course my long standing engine feud
> with Cliff.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff Hays
>
>
> Jeff,
>
> Consider the following statements.
>
> In my opinion, your opinion sucks.
>
> "Be honest also," your opinion sucks.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> Subject: Kitfox note offlist - This is not a nastygram.
>
>
> >
> > Lowell -
> >
> > Look, somehow we've got off on the wrong foot. And perhaps it is my
> > doing. In any case, this is to apologize if I've offended you.
> >
> > I am highly opinionated, and so are you. It would seem that we are
> > frequently at odds. In any case, I will for my part try to be a bit
> > more open minded, and perhaps a bit less confrontational.
> >
> > I'm pretty passionate about airplane building, and sometimes I
> > say more than I should. Anyway, like I said, it was not my intent to
> > offend anybody.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jeff Hays
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Mass Balance Weights for Speedster |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
I need mass balance weights for a Model IV Speedster. Just checking to find out
if anyone has a set of the weights laying around that you are willing to sell.
Thanks
Jimmie
Message 16
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| Subject: | Let's try to be constructive |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Dear Jeff and Fellow Listers,
I have been a member of this list for about a year now. Most of the
postings on this list have been
informative, positive or humorous. I think that is really great.
But I suppose that it is inevitable, considering the breadth of
membership, that some negative postings and personality confrontations
will arise.
I just have one favor to ask. Can we keep the messages focused and
positive?
I think we all have Jeff's number here but my wife doesn't. She reads
the list messages too.
I had to spend more than a few minutes reassuring her that my plane will
not "self destruct" due
to poor welding.
I am sure that you (Jeff) have a spectacular aircraft but am puzzled why
you took such a negative stance
on what is truly one of the finest and successful kit planes?
Anything built by man will have flaws, I think you can agree with me on
that?
But don't you love your little plane? I mean really, if the KitFox is so
defective why own one?
You are not the only person with passion but you need to temper that
passion so as not to inflame
that of others.
I know nothing of your past but judging by your demeanor, I think you
just like to "stir the pot".
Please spare us all of that if you possibly can. I'd hate to remove
myself from the list.
'Nuf Said
Thanks,
Scott McClintock
Nome
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Michel, Jabi 2200 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
kurt schrader wrote:
> But with your gas prices, maybe the cruise prop isn't
> a bad idea either. You just have to stay below VNE
> yourself.
Thank you for your answer, Kurt, and yes, I will. As stated before, my aim is
not to get fast there but to enjoy being up there.
> So as soon as your rich uncle dies and leaves you a fortune, you'll be ready.
... well, I am richer than my uncle. Is it legal? :-)
Mike Chaney wrote:
> I installed a Jabiru 2200 in my Model IV. Thake a look at the Jabiru USA
> website for pictures.
Thanks, Mike. I looked at the Jabiru website and found your plane. Yes, I see a
model 4 with round cowling. I also see what you had to modify on the cowling,
making it longer. Is it just me or does your new round cowling points slightly
upward? I have noticed that too on a French model 4 + Jabiru.
Maybe the Skyfox cowling would be more convenient then. Did you considered that
or was a modification to your existing cowl the only solution?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
Gary,
the 1200 aerocet floats were bought out by Sam Goodal (ok, not sure of
spelling) He used to be on this list. He stopped building the floats several
years ago. I sold mine before I knew he stopped. or would never have sold
mine. We could buy them out and go into production ... humm.
John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Algate
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aericet floats
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Can anyone on the list tell me where I can find a supplier for Aerocet 1200
floats
Best regards
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Heating problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
> The antifreeze can be veryyyy cold, remember this stuff won't get stiff
> that easy, can be mixed and act as a fluid down to around -50 deg. C.
Yes, I understand that, Torgeir, it is what antifreeze is all about. But what I
learned that day was that when it mixes with snow, it cools even further, due
to the required energy to melt the snow. This is a principle that we learn in
meteorology: Snow that melts as it falls, cools down the air. Rain that
freezes, on the other hand, gives heat.
Have you noticed that, in calm wind, the temperature near the ground is almost
never +1 or -1 C? My theory is that, when the temperature sinks or rises, it
stays even at 0 C for a while because of this phenomenon. I am not sure, it is
just my theory, what do you think?
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Thanks John
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Oakley
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Aericet floats
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
Gary,
the 1200 aerocet floats were bought out by Sam Goodal (ok, not sure of
spelling) He used to be on this list. He stopped building the floats several
years ago. I sold mine before I knew he stopped. or would never have sold
mine. We could buy them out and go into production ... humm. John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Algate
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aericet floats
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Can anyone on the list tell me where I can find a supplier for Aerocet 1200
floats
Best regards
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Let's try to be constructive |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Hi -
Look, the original thing that started this was that I made a
tongue in cheek comment, about the stick coming off in my hand.
It was a joke, re-read the posts, I think it is quite clear
what I said, and what I meant. I don't seriously think the
stick is going to fall of!
I happen to know how to weld, and I am not a fan of Mig welding
4130 so I posted a comment about the Mig welding. Go read the
Bearhawk FAQ there's lot's of info about why not to Mig weld
4130
My comment about Skystar was maybe out of line, BUT I think there's
a lot of builder's on this list who would agree, that Skystar has
some issue's with both some lacking things on the kits, plus
customer support of late. How many IO-240 owners like me were
told to not use the prop Skystar sold them, and then told that
Skystar would not exchange it? I'm sure I'm not the only person
who's bought a bunch of ten dollar $2 bolts either.
Skystar read's this list, so maybe they SHOULD know that some builders
feel cheated, and taken advantage of. They have a great product, but
lately they've not been that good about taking care of builders. I
just hope they fix things, and get back to where they were.
3-4 years ago, I unsubscribed from the old list after a rather nasty
spate of emails with the list admin's about how I thought they managed
the list. The fact is it was their list, and I should have just shut up.
Darrell is one of those admin's and while I disagree with some of his
ways of doing things, I do owe him an apology from then.
I did not subscribe to the list to cause trouble, I'm just another guy
who built a Kitfox, and have been around aviation since I was a kid. I
just like airplanes, and subscribed to the list to talk, argue, opine,
etc. about them.
Regards,
Jeff Hays
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Scott McClintock scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us
Subject: Kitfox-List: Let's try to be constructive
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock
<scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Dear Jeff and Fellow Listers,
I have been a member of this list for about a year now. Most of the
postings on this list have been
informative, positive or humorous. I think that is really great.
But I suppose that it is inevitable, considering the breadth of
membership, that some negative postings and personality confrontations
will arise.
I just have one favor to ask. Can we keep the messages focused and
positive?
I think we all have Jeff's number here but my wife doesn't. She reads
the list messages too.
I had to spend more than a few minutes reassuring her that my plane will
not "self destruct" due
to poor welding.
I am sure that you (Jeff) have a spectacular aircraft but am puzzled why
you took such a negative stance
on what is truly one of the finest and successful kit planes?
Anything built by man will have flaws, I think you can agree with me on
that?
But don't you love your little plane? I mean really, if the KitFox is so
defective why own one?
You are not the only person with passion but you need to temper that
passion so as not to inflame
that of others.
I know nothing of your past but judging by your demeanor, I think you
just like to "stir the pot".
Please spare us all of that if you possibly can. I'd hate to remove
myself from the list.
'Nuf Said
Thanks,
Scott McClintock
Nome
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Heat transition. (Was: heating problem) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Michel,
I'm sure you know.. :)
Yes, of course you are right, this phenomenon (or fact from the nature)
is related to the water/humidity. Our definition of zero degrees C. is a
"stirred" mixture of ice and water. As the ground contain lots of
humidity, a calm "cold" wind will transfer heat from the ground. During
the transition from liquid to solid, the temperature will stay pretty
close to zero deg. C. "near" the ground. When all water/humidity is
turned to "solid", the temperature start descending from zero deg. C.
In very dry area, you will not notice such a delay at zero deg. C.
(This water and ice mixture-, is our "zero" reference when calibrating
the more accurate EGT systems, as in jet engines, turbines etc.)
Cheers,
Torgeir
Michel Verheughe wrote:
> Have you noticed that, in calm wind, the temperature near the ground is almost
> never +1 or -1 C? My theory is that, when the temperature sinks or rises, it
> stays even at 0 C for a while because of this phenomenon. I am not sure, it is
> just my theory, what do you think?
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Let's try to be constructive |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Folks,
Jeff is absolutely OK., - I KNOW !
Let's be constructive!
Torgeir.
"jeff.hays@aselia.com" wrote:
> I did not subscribe to the list to cause trouble, I'm just another guy
> who built a Kitfox, and have been around aviation since I was a kid. I
> just like airplanes, and subscribed to the list to talk, argue, opine,
> etc. about them.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff Hays
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Scott McClintock scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:20:55 -0900
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Let's try to be constructive
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock
> <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Dear Jeff and Fellow Listers,
>
> I have been a member of this list for about a year now. Most of the
> postings on this list have been
> informative, positive or humorous. I think that is really great.
> But I suppose that it is inevitable, considering the breadth of
> membership, that some negative postings and personality confrontations
> will arise.
> I just have one favor to ask. Can we keep the messages focused and
> positive?
> I think we all have Jeff's number here but my wife doesn't. She reads
> the list messages too.
> I had to spend more than a few minutes reassuring her that my plane will
> not "self destruct" due
> to poor welding.
> I am sure that you (Jeff) have a spectacular aircraft but am puzzled why
> you took such a negative stance
> on what is truly one of the finest and successful kit planes?
> Anything built by man will have flaws, I think you can agree with me on
> that?
> But don't you love your little plane? I mean really, if the KitFox is so
> defective why own one?
> You are not the only person with passion but you need to temper that
> passion so as not to inflame
> that of others.
> I know nothing of your past but judging by your demeanor, I think you
> just like to "stir the pot".
> Please spare us all of that if you possibly can. I'd hate to remove
> myself from the list.
> 'Nuf Said
> Thanks,
> Scott McClintock
> Nome
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Heat transition. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
> I'm sure you know.. :)
Nope! I was only an observation, from looking at the thermometer outside my
window, Torgeir. I have several books about meteorology and I have never found
that "plateau at 0 degrees" explanation anywhere. Therefore I thank you for
confirming it. It sort of made sense but it's always good to get confirmation
from a pro.
BTW, as a child, my father, who was teaching meteorology to Belgian airmen,
showed us a jewel, an animated film Walt Disney studio did during WWII to teach
meteorology to allied airmen. I would kill (a form a speech, of course! :-) to
get my hand on a copy of this film.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List-opinions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
And a good time was had by all. Life is good ain't it
Dee Young
Model II
Do not archive
Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed
Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Let's try to be constructive |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kenneth and Alice Jones" <kmjones@innernet.net>
Hello:
I'm relatively new to the list. I just acquired a Series 7 kit. I don't
write much because I have never built a tube and fabric airplane so I don't
have much to offer. Having built an RV-4 I know something about aluminum,
but I'm ignorant about tube and fabric and the kitfox. I read the listings
to learn from those of you who have that knowledge. I found Jeff's comments
interesting and informative. For instance, I now know something about Mig
and Tig welding that I did not know before. And I also now know that
certain Kitfox parts are Tig welded were they should be. I thank Jeff for
that.
My point gentlemen is that many of us read this list for information, and we
get that information from your give and take. I hope it is still OK to
report and debate problems in kit aircraft even if they may be perceived as
negative. Where else will we get this kind of information? You know
Kitplanes and Sport Aviation hardly ever report bad stuff about kit
aircraft. Every airplane is a compromise with good points and weak points.
My hope is you experienced builders will continue to debate the weak points
as well as the good points so we newbies can learn more about the airplane
we chose.
Ken Jones
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Let's try to be constructive
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
<jeff.hays@aselia.com>
>
>
> Hi -
>
> Look, the original thing that started this was that I made a
> tongue in cheek comment, about the stick coming off in my hand.
> It was a joke, re-read the posts, I think it is quite clear
> what I said, and what I meant. I don't seriously think the
> stick is going to fall of!
>
> I happen to know how to weld, and I am not a fan of Mig welding
> 4130 so I posted a comment about the Mig welding. Go read the
> Bearhawk FAQ there's lot's of info about why not to Mig weld
> 4130
>
> My comment about Skystar was maybe out of line, BUT I think there's
> a lot of builder's on this list who would agree, that Skystar has
> some issue's with both some lacking things on the kits, plus
> customer support of late. How many IO-240 owners like me were
> told to not use the prop Skystar sold them, and then told that
> Skystar would not exchange it? I'm sure I'm not the only person
> who's bought a bunch of ten dollar $2 bolts either.
>
> Skystar read's this list, so maybe they SHOULD know that some builders
> feel cheated, and taken advantage of. They have a great product, but
> lately they've not been that good about taking care of builders. I
> just hope they fix things, and get back to where they were.
>
> 3-4 years ago, I unsubscribed from the old list after a rather nasty
> spate of emails with the list admin's about how I thought they managed
> the list. The fact is it was their list, and I should have just shut up.
> Darrell is one of those admin's and while I disagree with some of his
> ways of doing things, I do owe him an apology from then.
>
> I did not subscribe to the list to cause trouble, I'm just another guy
> who built a Kitfox, and have been around aviation since I was a kid. I
> just like airplanes, and subscribed to the list to talk, argue, opine,
> etc. about them.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff Hays
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Scott McClintock scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:20:55 -0900
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Let's try to be constructive
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock
> <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Dear Jeff and Fellow Listers,
>
> I have been a member of this list for about a year now. Most of the
> postings on this list have been
> informative, positive or humorous. I think that is really great.
> But I suppose that it is inevitable, considering the breadth of
> membership, that some negative postings and personality confrontations
> will arise.
> I just have one favor to ask. Can we keep the messages focused and
> positive?
> I think we all have Jeff's number here but my wife doesn't. She reads
> the list messages too.
> I had to spend more than a few minutes reassuring her that my plane will
> not "self destruct" due
> to poor welding.
> I am sure that you (Jeff) have a spectacular aircraft but am puzzled why
> you took such a negative stance
> on what is truly one of the finest and successful kit planes?
> Anything built by man will have flaws, I think you can agree with me on
> that?
> But don't you love your little plane? I mean really, if the KitFox is so
> defective why own one?
> You are not the only person with passion but you need to temper that
> passion so as not to inflame
> that of others.
> I know nothing of your past but judging by your demeanor, I think you
> just like to "stir the pot".
> Please spare us all of that if you possibly can. I'd hate to remove
> myself from the list.
> 'Nuf Said
> Thanks,
> Scott McClintock
> Nome
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Let's try to be constructive |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
Just another take on Jeff's posting. I believe that every one of us is
equal to each other. I am and never will be better in any way that any of
the rest of us. I believe that ones opinion must be respected even though
we have the right to disagree with others. I see ones opinion as their inner
being. It reflects who they are and I for one do respect every single
opinion posted here. I may disagree but I promise that it will be done with
respect.
I do not see that Jeff started any problem here. His opinion was insulted
and he reacted to that.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Ron
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Let's try to be constructive |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
Ken,
The Kitfox list is mild compared to the flamingos on the RV list. As far as
construction two different concepts two very different missions. My RV-6A
was beautiful, took it out mountain flying and slowed it way down 110 mph
not to bad for a 180mph aircraft. On the other hand the Kitfox tops out at
110 and is great for mountain flying at 55mph. The Kitfox could even fly
out of some of the spots I wanted to land. I guess the RV-6A would land but
the take off would be rough!
Sincerely,
Noel Simmons
Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574
noel@blueskyaviation.net <mailto:noel@blueskyaviation.net>
www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kenneth and
Alice Jones
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Let's try to be constructive
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kenneth and Alice Jones"
<kmjones@innernet.net>
Hello:
I'm relatively new to the list. I just acquired a Series 7 kit. I don't
write much because I have never built a tube and fabric airplane so I don't
have much to offer. Having built an RV-4 I know something about aluminum,
but I'm ignorant about tube and fabric and the kitfox. I read the listings
to learn from those of you who have that knowledge. I found Jeff's comments
interesting and informative. For instance, I now know something about Mig
and Tig welding that I did not know before. And I also now know that
certain Kitfox parts are Tig welded were they should be. I thank Jeff for
that.
My point gentlemen is that many of us read this list for information, and we
get that information from your give and take. I hope it is still OK to
report and debate problems in kit aircraft even if they may be perceived as
negative. Where else will we get this kind of information? You know
Kitplanes and Sport Aviation hardly ever report bad stuff about kit
aircraft. Every airplane is a compromise with good points and weak points.
My hope is you experienced builders will continue to debate the weak points
as well as the good points so we newbies can learn more about the airplane
we chose.
Ken Jones
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Let's try to be constructive
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
<jeff.hays@aselia.com>
>
>
> Hi -
>
> Look, the original thing that started this was that I made a
> tongue in cheek comment, about the stick coming off in my hand.
> It was a joke, re-read the posts, I think it is quite clear
> what I said, and what I meant. I don't seriously think the
> stick is going to fall of!
>
> I happen to know how to weld, and I am not a fan of Mig welding
> 4130 so I posted a comment about the Mig welding. Go read the
> Bearhawk FAQ there's lot's of info about why not to Mig weld
> 4130
>
> My comment about Skystar was maybe out of line, BUT I think there's
> a lot of builder's on this list who would agree, that Skystar has
> some issue's with both some lacking things on the kits, plus
> customer support of late. How many IO-240 owners like me were
> told to not use the prop Skystar sold them, and then told that
> Skystar would not exchange it? I'm sure I'm not the only person
> who's bought a bunch of ten dollar $2 bolts either.
>
> Skystar read's this list, so maybe they SHOULD know that some builders
> feel cheated, and taken advantage of. They have a great product, but
> lately they've not been that good about taking care of builders. I
> just hope they fix things, and get back to where they were.
>
> 3-4 years ago, I unsubscribed from the old list after a rather nasty
> spate of emails with the list admin's about how I thought they managed
> the list. The fact is it was their list, and I should have just shut up.
> Darrell is one of those admin's and while I disagree with some of his
> ways of doing things, I do owe him an apology from then.
>
> I did not subscribe to the list to cause trouble, I'm just another guy
> who built a Kitfox, and have been around aviation since I was a kid. I
> just like airplanes, and subscribed to the list to talk, argue, opine,
> etc. about them.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff Hays
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Scott McClintock scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:20:55 -0900
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Let's try to be constructive
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock
> <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Dear Jeff and Fellow Listers,
>
> I have been a member of this list for about a year now. Most of the
> postings on this list have been
> informative, positive or humorous. I think that is really great.
> But I suppose that it is inevitable, considering the breadth of
> membership, that some negative postings and personality confrontations
> will arise.
> I just have one favor to ask. Can we keep the messages focused and
> positive?
> I think we all have Jeff's number here but my wife doesn't. She reads
> the list messages too.
> I had to spend more than a few minutes reassuring her that my plane will
> not "self destruct" due
> to poor welding.
> I am sure that you (Jeff) have a spectacular aircraft but am puzzled why
> you took such a negative stance
> on what is truly one of the finest and successful kit planes?
> Anything built by man will have flaws, I think you can agree with me on
> that?
> But don't you love your little plane? I mean really, if the KitFox is so
> defective why own one?
> You are not the only person with passion but you need to temper that
> passion so as not to inflame
> that of others.
> I know nothing of your past but judging by your demeanor, I think you
> just like to "stir the pot".
> Please spare us all of that if you possibly can. I'd hate to remove
> myself from the list.
> 'Nuf Said
> Thanks,
> Scott McClintock
> Nome
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Let's try to be constructive |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "algate@attglobal.net" <algate@attglobal.net>
I have to agree with what appears to be the majority of the list. Whether
we agree with each others opinions is really not even relevent and it would
be pretty boring if we all agreed on each and every subject.
There are some parts of my plane I love, and others I would have done
differently - some of us even like smooth cowls and 4 stroke engines ????
How crazy is that!
As far as I'm concerned Jeff has every right to say what he believes to be
true, and if I disagree I have the right to comment. As long as we all
treat each other with respect then there really isn' a problem.
I guess there has been a lot of pressure put on Jeff over this and I just
want to give my vote of confidence with the rest that feel the same way and
hope he just shakes it off and things return to normal.
Of course, if I have offended anyone by expressing my opinion on this matter
Bad luck.
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
Hi Folks,
Jeff is absolutely OK., - I KNOW !
Let's be constructive!
Torgeir.
"jeff.hays@aselia.com" wrote:
> I did not subscribe to the list to cause trouble, I'm just another guy
> who built a Kitfox, and have been around aviation since I was a kid. I
> just like airplanes, and subscribed to the list to talk, argue, opine,
> etc. about them.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff Hays
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Scott McClintock scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:20:55 -0900
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Let's try to be constructive
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock
> <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Dear Jeff and Fellow Listers,
>
> I have been a member of this list for about a year now. Most of the
> postings on this list have been
> informative, positive or humorous. I think that is really great.
> But I suppose that it is inevitable, considering the breadth of
> membership, that some negative postings and personality confrontations
> will arise.
> I just have one favor to ask. Can we keep the messages focused and
> positive?
> I think we all have Jeff's number here but my wife doesn't. She reads
> the list messages too.
> I had to spend more than a few minutes reassuring her that my plane will
> not "self destruct" due
> to poor welding.
> I am sure that you (Jeff) have a spectacular aircraft but am puzzled why
> you took such a negative stance
> on what is truly one of the finest and successful kit planes?
> Anything built by man will have flaws, I think you can agree with me on
> that?
> But don't you love your little plane? I mean really, if the KitFox is so
> defective why own one?
> You are not the only person with passion but you need to temper that
> passion so as not to inflame
> that of others.
> I know nothing of your past but judging by your demeanor, I think you
> just like to "stir the pot".
> Please spare us all of that if you possibly can. I'd hate to remove
> myself from the list.
> 'Nuf Said
> Thanks,
> Scott McClintock
> Nome
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List-opinions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeff Hays" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Dee -
Yes life is good! I'm sitting here with my 4 month old son, and the list
just isn't that important at the end of the day when you measure things
in life! Just a place to talk about stuff for fun, nothing more.
Regards,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dee Young
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List-opinions
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
And a good time was had by all. Life is good ain't it
Dee Young
Model II
Do not archive
Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed
Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Let's try to be constructive |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Lina" <airlina@usadatanet.net>
If not for all of Jeff's help and technical advice I would still be
installing my I0-240 on my Series 5 and not have the 60 hours on it since
first flight in August. Not only did he offer me tons of great tech advice
but he also offered me flight time. Jeff and I had only had phone
conversations before I met him at Oshosh last summer. He offered me a flight
in his plane (as I had just received my airworthiness cert. and was getting
up the nerve for my first flight in my Series 5) For 2 hours Jeff showed me
the ropes and let me fly his plane to get the feel and to prepare me for
flying mine . About 1 week later I had my first flight.Thanks Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <algate@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Let's try to be constructive
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "algate@attglobal.net"
<algate@attglobal.net>
>
>
> I have to agree with what appears to be the majority of the list. Whether
> we agree with each others opinions is really not even relevent and it
would
> be pretty boring if we all agreed on each and every subject.
>
> There are some parts of my plane I love, and others I would have done
> differently - some of us even like smooth cowls and 4 stroke engines ????
> How crazy is that!
>
> As far as I'm concerned Jeff has every right to say what he believes to be
> true, and if I disagree I have the right to comment. As long as we all
> treat each other with respect then there really isn' a problem.
>
> I guess there has been a lot of pressure put on Jeff over this and I just
> want to give my vote of confidence with the rest that feel the same way
and
> hope he just shakes it off and things return to normal.
>
> Of course, if I have offended anyone by expressing my opinion on this
matter
>
> Bad luck.
>
> Gary Algate
> Lite2/582
>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
> Jeff is absolutely OK., - I KNOW !
>
>
> Let's be constructive!
>
>
> Torgeir.
>
>
> "jeff.hays@aselia.com" wrote:
>
>
> > I did not subscribe to the list to cause trouble, I'm just another guy
> > who built a Kitfox, and have been around aviation since I was a kid. I
> > just like airplanes, and subscribed to the list to talk, argue, opine,
> > etc. about them.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jeff Hays
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: Scott McClintock scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us
> > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:20:55 -0900
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Let's try to be constructive
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock
> > <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
> >
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> > Dear Jeff and Fellow Listers,
> >
> > I have been a member of this list for about a year now. Most of the
> > postings on this list have been
> > informative, positive or humorous. I think that is really great.
> > But I suppose that it is inevitable, considering the breadth of
> > membership, that some negative postings and personality confrontations
> > will arise.
> > I just have one favor to ask. Can we keep the messages focused and
> > positive?
> > I think we all have Jeff's number here but my wife doesn't. She reads
> > the list messages too.
> > I had to spend more than a few minutes reassuring her that my plane will
> > not "self destruct" due
> > to poor welding.
> > I am sure that you (Jeff) have a spectacular aircraft but am puzzled why
> > you took such a negative stance
> > on what is truly one of the finest and successful kit planes?
> > Anything built by man will have flaws, I think you can agree with me on
> > that?
> > But don't you love your little plane? I mean really, if the KitFox is so
> > defective why own one?
> > You are not the only person with passion but you need to temper that
> > passion so as not to inflame
> > that of others.
> > I know nothing of your past but judging by your demeanor, I think you
> > just like to "stir the pot".
> > Please spare us all of that if you possibly can. I'd hate to remove
> > myself from the list.
> > 'Nuf Said
> > Thanks,
> > Scott McClintock
> > Nome
> >
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Reduction drive (out put module) ratio |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Spoke with Lance today and decided to go with the 2.03 set of gears. Partial
reasoning is that though we would theoretically spin faster we may not have
the torque to do so. Any who, the compromise seemed to drop the numbers in a
better range. My math, possibly faulty is this:
5500rpm/2.03=2709.3596X72=195073.89/229.183=851.17=mach .762 maybe but
close. Lance is giving .68 too .73 as the best range. Warp says 850. So I
guess I can fudge with the rpm a little. I will have to try out the
following site a bit more to see how the numbers should be at various
altitudes and so on. Hope I am not boring everyone.
http://www.bewersdorff.com/computational/prop.html
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Reduction drive (out put module) ratio
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
Wish I had that much power available now. Maybe after
I get Lance to rebuild it, he'll give me an upgrade
too. I bought the smaller turbo just in case it gave
me a little more TBO. Probably why I get the lower
hp, but I think Lance dropped this option. Like you
mentioned, it may be the valves that go first. I
still need to see which size I have before ordering
the SS ones from you. Too much to do right now.
The first consideration is the strength of the prop.
I don't know if the CAP 140 should ever hit 3000 rpm
in practice. I know Lance builds in a big buffer, but
we don't need to test it without knowing it is
"normal".
According to that web site, "Prop Tip Speed
Calculator", 3000 prop rpm is well below supersonic
for 72". In fact, it is just barely up to the best
power range of 0.88 Mach when we get up to 140 mph
true at 5,000'. 3,150 is the highest rpm we should
use for 0.92 Mach there.
Some seaplane operators use 3000 rpm on their 76"
props. That is within the best usable range, but it
sure is noisy! If we pushed the rpm up there, I think
ours would be more efficient, but noisy too.
Again according to that site, you could swing a 85"
prop at 2600 rpm. Not do-able for us without Storch
gear and big GB bearings.
Up to 17,000' you can still use 3,000 rpm at 140 mph
true for our 72". Those are at standard day temps.
(It works density altitudes in for you too.) So I was
using 3,000 rpm as a safe tip speed range. You would
not likely take off or use that rpm at 17,000'. Or at
least I don't plan to, but it could be done with our
planes. :-)
My dyno readout shows a max of 6,000 engine rpm and
2650 prop. That is over 1,500 egt at that more remote
egt mount Lance uses. Best hp was 143 at 2580 prop or
5750 engine rpm. My torque curve flattens out by 3350
engine rpm, so above that is good enough for cruise, I
figure.
BTW, my max torque is 297. What is yours? 312 or so?
If I use 5200 rpm as max I lose 11 hp. The first
takeoff by my friend, who does his homework, was at
4,000 rpm to give 100 hp. That is what he has and he
wanted to start from a known point to compare with
mine.
Lance's last limitation sheet to me gives wide limits.
Max of 5800 rpm for the turbo and max continuous of
4800 rpm. I set the gage pointer at 5600 max and
redlined it there. I had been using less than max for
takeoff until my last takeoff. The accelertion
difference was very noticable, as I said, from just a
few 100 rpm change. More hp and more efficiency?
I understand that you are not using Lance's higher egt
limits either. His sheet gives a green arc to 1575
and a max of 1600 degrees.
Overall, I think that we are not running the prop tip
any where near most efficient speed, but that we are
all enclined to use safer rpm limits. Same with the
other limitations. We are all trying to stay under
what Lance tested at, even at a loss of hp. Use what
we need and not what we have until necessary.
I agree that you should talk to Warp and Lance too
since he makes the hub, before increasing the prop
rpm. If 3000 works out to be safe, only then regear
to that. I suspect that Lance gave you the higher
gear ratio just to keep that prop rpm down while
absorbing your greater torque.
Kurt S.
--- Rick <turboflyer@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick"
> <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
> I think I should get an honest 150 too 160. I plan
> on 5200 for my max RPM,
> so am just doing the math for 5200/2=2600. Power
> wise,5200 can be reached
> easily enough even with the non-turbo engine. The
> trick is how much prop can
> one spin at a tip speed of 2600. Warp should be able
> to tell us what pitch
> RPM combo is best.
> Just read the look at this below paragraph. So your
> saying 3000 for the tip
> speed, interesting. 5200/1.8 would give almost 2900
> and 1.7 would turn it
> 3058 at 5200 engine speed. What pitch were you at?
> Isn't 3000 super sonic
> though?
>
> Rick
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of kurt
> schrader
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Reduction drive (out put
> module) ratio
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Rick,
>
> What is the actual HP output of your engine? I
> think
> it is a little more than my 143 hp - something right
> about 150 hp? Lance gave me a 2.23:1 ratio for
> mine.
> If you have more hp, you could use a little lower
> ratio based upon that, but I think the 2:1 might be
> too low.
>
> Then again, take a look at this site:
>
> >http://www.bewersdorff.com/computational/prop.html<
>
> Pluging some numbers in, your 2:1 ratio comes closer
> to reaching the optimum tip speed, which it says
> requires 3,000 rpm or more from the 72" prop around
> our range of speeds and altitudes. We best not run
> 3,000 prop rpm without Lance's backing though. But
> I
> do know that the accelleration picks up very
> noticably
> when I take off at max rpm, rather than even a few
> 100
> rpm lower.
>
> Interesting? I was surprised at the results when I
> first tried this. I bet the prop would be noisy.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> __________________________________
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
__________________________________
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Message 33
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
OK Rick,
I went a bought new plugs today. Just over $2 each
from NAPA. Got them installed, but ran out of time to
do a run. Have some other maintenance to do first
anyway. Next time I have a chance, I'll see what
difference they make. Hopefully on a warmer day so I
don't prime them into a fouled state too.
Kurt S.
--- Rick <turboflyer@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick"
> <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
> Guys, on the plugs. It doesn't take a lot to foul
> them. Try to taxi at as
> lean a positions as you can. Also forget the full
> rich on landing setting.
> That is sure to foul em up. If you need a go around
> just remember both balls
> to the wall.
>
> Rick
__________________________________
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Message 34
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scotty <mr.scotty@earthlink.net>
Do any of you guys have any suggestions on mounting wheel pants on a
Kitfox Vixen. Do they need any beefing up in the corner cuts or a
baffle in the rear to keep wind from making them flutter. Any
suggestion will be considered - - except don't do it. They look very
good.
Scotty
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: 912-S Oil Cooler Failures |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
John,
I'll send you several pictures directly to your e-mail address.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
John Banes wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Banes" <johnbanes@adelphia.net>
>
>Thanks Clint, Floran, Len, Dan, Lowell and John!
>
>Sandwiching the whole unit in foam makes more sense but I cannot picture how
>I might adapt that to the mount provided with the cooler. Earl's web site
>does not have any pictures of their mounting system.
>
>John I know that you and I have the same engine and cowling and that you
>have a few to several hundred hours on your installation. I really only
>want to do this once. I would appreciate any suggestions. A picture would
>be very helpful.
>
>
>Thanks again,
>
>
>John Banes
>
>S6 912S Smooth Cowling
>
>
>
>
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Reduction drive (out put module) ratio |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hey Rick,
This is almost like experimenting. :-)
I got .77 mach at sea level and .80 at 10,000' for
5500 engine rpm with your new ratio, from that site.
This will give you a chance to see if raising the prop
rpm, or increasing pitch gives the best efficiency.
If you run out of torque, you can always lower pitch
to keep the higher prop rpm.
Since you are not going to cruise at 5500 rpm, you
will still be well below the most efficient rpm in
cruise. It may be better with the prop rpm higher than
before, and noticably better in takeoff and climb too.
Please keep us posted.
Kurt S.
--- Rick <turboflyer@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick"
> <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
> Spoke with Lance today and decided to go with the
> 2.03 set of gears. Partial
> reasoning is that though we would theoretically spin
> faster we may not have
> the torque to do so. Any who, the compromise seemed
> to drop the numbers in a
> better range. My math, possibly faulty is this:
>
5500rpm/2.03=2709.3596X72=195073.89/229.183=851.17=mach
> .762 maybe but
> close. Lance is giving .68 too .73 as the best
> range. Warp says 850. So I
> guess I can fudge with the rpm a little. I will have
> to try out the
> following site a bit more to see how the numbers
> should be at various
> altitudes and so on. Hope I am not boring everyone.
> http://www.bewersdorff.com/computational/prop.html
>
> Rick
__________________________________
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Let's try to be constructive |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Such drama on the list!
Thanks Bruce, Ron, Torgeir, etc. for all your notes, etc.
With regard to this whole issue, I just got a note from Lowell
which I won't post, but as far as I am concerned clears the air
between us, and I'm not going to hold any ill will towards
Lowell for his earlier note.
It's quite easy to sit behind a keyboard, hit send and later
regret it. I've done it myself more than once. In fact I've
sent whole bunches, up to and including mass emailing's :)
Earlier list member's will know what I mean.
Regards,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Lina
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Let's try to be constructive
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Lina" <airlina@usadatanet.net>
If not for all of Jeff's help and technical advice I would still be
installing my I0-240 on my Series 5 and not have the 60 hours on it since
first flight in August. Not only did he offer me tons of great tech advice
but he also offered me flight time. Jeff and I had only had phone
conversations before I met him at Oshosh last summer. He offered me a flight
in his plane (as I had just received my airworthiness cert. and was getting
up the nerve for my first flight in my Series 5) For 2 hours Jeff showed me
the ropes and let me fly his plane to get the feel and to prepare me for
flying mine . About 1 week later I had my first flight.Thanks Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <algate@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Let's try to be constructive
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "algate@attglobal.net"
<algate@attglobal.net>
>
>
> I have to agree with what appears to be the majority of the list. Whether
> we agree with each others opinions is really not even relevent and it
would
> be pretty boring if we all agreed on each and every subject.
>
> There are some parts of my plane I love, and others I would have done
> differently - some of us even like smooth cowls and 4 stroke engines ????
> How crazy is that!
>
> As far as I'm concerned Jeff has every right to say what he believes to be
> true, and if I disagree I have the right to comment. As long as we all
> treat each other with respect then there really isn' a problem.
>
> I guess there has been a lot of pressure put on Jeff over this and I just
> want to give my vote of confidence with the rest that feel the same way
and
> hope he just shakes it off and things return to normal.
>
> Of course, if I have offended anyone by expressing my opinion on this
matter
>
> Bad luck.
>
> Gary Algate
> Lite2/582
>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
> Jeff is absolutely OK., - I KNOW !
>
>
> Let's be constructive!
>
>
> Torgeir.
>
>
> "jeff.hays@aselia.com" wrote:
>
>
> > I did not subscribe to the list to cause trouble, I'm just another guy
> > who built a Kitfox, and have been around aviation since I was a kid. I
> > just like airplanes, and subscribed to the list to talk, argue, opine,
> > etc. about them.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jeff Hays
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: Scott McClintock scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us
> > Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:20:55 -0900
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Let's try to be constructive
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock
> > <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
> >
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> > Dear Jeff and Fellow Listers,
> >
> > I have been a member of this list for about a year now. Most of the
> > postings on this list have been
> > informative, positive or humorous. I think that is really great.
> > But I suppose that it is inevitable, considering the breadth of
> > membership, that some negative postings and personality confrontations
> > will arise.
> > I just have one favor to ask. Can we keep the messages focused and
> > positive?
> > I think we all have Jeff's number here but my wife doesn't. She reads
> > the list messages too.
> > I had to spend more than a few minutes reassuring her that my plane will
> > not "self destruct" due
> > to poor welding.
> > I am sure that you (Jeff) have a spectacular aircraft but am puzzled why
> > you took such a negative stance
> > on what is truly one of the finest and successful kit planes?
> > Anything built by man will have flaws, I think you can agree with me on
> > that?
> > But don't you love your little plane? I mean really, if the KitFox is so
> > defective why own one?
> > You are not the only person with passion but you need to temper that
> > passion so as not to inflame
> > that of others.
> > I know nothing of your past but judging by your demeanor, I think you
> > just like to "stir the pot".
> > Please spare us all of that if you possibly can. I'd hate to remove
> > myself from the list.
> > 'Nuf Said
> > Thanks,
> > Scott McClintock
> > Nome
> >
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
>
>
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Heat transition. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Brian Peck <u2drvr@dslextreme.com>
As a Physics teacher, I feel compelled to explain further...
This is a principle of thermodynamics called "latent heat". When any
substance undergoes a change of state from a solid to a liquid or a
liquid to a gas, extra energy input (i.e. heat) is required. This is
called the latent heat of fusion or vaporization. If you cool water at
a steady rate, it's temperature will decline at a steady rate until it
reaches 0 degrees and then the temperature will remain steady until
enough energy has been taken away from it to allow it to transition to
a solid state. The same thing happens in reverse when heating ice to
melt it or water to boil it. Water cannot be a liquid below 0 degrees
or above 100 degrees (at 1 atmosphere pressure).
This principle explains why the evaporation of sweat cools you off. In
order to change from a liquid to a gas, the sweat draws heat from your
body. For water the amount of heat required is 79.7 cal per gram to
melt ice and 539 cal/g to vaporize water (again at 1 atm). This
principle does indeed effect weather when temps are near the freezing
level.
Anyway, sorry to bore you with thermodynamics, but it's in my nature.
Cheers,
Brian Peck,
Physics teacher
Kitfox pilot
U-2 Test pilot
On Feb 10, 2004, at 2:37 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
>> I'm sure you know.. :)
>
> Nope! I was only an observation, from looking at the thermometer
> outside my
> window, Torgeir. I have several books about meteorology and I have
> never found
> that "plateau at 0 degrees" explanation anywhere. Therefore I thank
> you for
> confirming it. It sort of made sense but it's always good to get
> confirmation
> from a pro.
>
> BTW, as a child, my father, who was teaching meteorology to Belgian
> airmen,
> showed us a jewel, an animated film Walt Disney studio did during WWII
> to teach
> meteorology to allied airmen. I would kill (a form a speech, of
> course! :-) to
> get my hand on a copy of this film.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
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Message 39
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
I would make the access to the valve stem much much much bigger and have the
door open from right to left. Two duz or what ever you choose to secure it
closed. I mean big, especially on that nose pants. Yes put in the wall
section behind the wheel in the pants. Stiffer, but mostly it keeps it from
filling with junk. I too think the pants look cool and about an even trade
for weight vs. reduced drag at out supersonic speeds.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scotty
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wheel Pants
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scotty <mr.scotty@earthlink.net>
Do any of you guys have any suggestions on mounting wheel pants on a
Kitfox Vixen. Do they need any beefing up in the corner cuts or a
baffle in the rear to keep wind from making them flutter. Any
suggestion will be considered - - except don't do it. They look very
good.
Scotty
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