Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:24 AM - Re: List member profile (michel)
2. 07:08 AM - Re: Wheel Pants for tundra tires? (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
3. 08:50 AM - Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox (Tom Jones)
4. 09:13 AM - Axis Citation System for Sale (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
5. 09:16 AM - Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox (Steve Magdic)
6. 09:29 AM - Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
7. 09:35 AM - Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox (Dee Young)
8. 10:09 AM - Strut fairings for M2 (was:Wheel Pants for tundra tires?) (Steve M)
9. 11:17 AM - Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox (Michel Verheughe)
10. 11:29 AM - Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox (Tom Jones)
11. 11:36 AM - Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox (Tom Jones)
12. 11:45 AM - Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox (Ray Kurian)
13. 12:12 PM - Re: Rotax alternator (Paul)
14. 12:17 PM - Re: Opinions on preparing to fly Kitfox (Noel & Yoshie Simmons)
15. 12:17 PM - Re: Strut fairings for M2 (was:Wheel Pants for tundra tires?) (Gary Algate)
16. 01:02 PM - Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . (Ron Carroll)
17. 01:04 PM - Cowling for a Jabiru (Michel Verheughe)
18. 01:33 PM - The value of a smiley WAS Re:Ailerons (Michel Verheughe)
19. 01:45 PM - Re: Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . (Clifford Begnaud)
20. 01:48 PM - Re: Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . (kurt schrader)
21. 01:50 PM - Re: Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . (Torgeir Mortensen)
22. 02:07 PM - Re: Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
23. 02:16 PM - Torgeir's Bedtime (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
24. 03:07 PM - Re: Torgeir's Bedtime (Torgeir Mortensen)
25. 03:13 PM - Re: Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . (Torgeir Mortensen)
26. 03:23 PM - Re: Torgeir's Bedtime (Michel Verheughe)
27. 03:39 PM - Re: 912 overhaul (Jeffrey Puls)
28. 03:40 PM - Kit for first time buyer (dsherburn)
29. 04:29 PM - Re: Ailerons (Jack Seaford)
30. 04:31 PM - Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox (Glenn Horne)
31. 04:35 PM - PROP ROTATION: 912 overhaul (Barry Huston)
32. 04:52 PM - Re:Accurate Wing washout was Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
33. 04:56 PM - Re: Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . (Ron Carroll)
34. 05:07 PM - Re: Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . (Clint Bazzill)
35. 05:13 PM - Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox (Barbara Jones)
36. 05:25 PM - Re: Re:Accurate Wing washout was Ailerons - To trim or not to trim (Clint Bazzill)
37. 05:44 PM - Re: Re:Accurate Wing washout was Ailerons - To trim or not to tr... (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
38. 06:18 PM - Re: The value of a smiley WAS Re:Ailerons (Rick)
39. 06:46 PM - engine mount mis-alignment (Arthur Nation)
40. 07:04 PM - engine mount mis-alignment (Arthur Nation)
41. 08:26 PM - Re: Strut fairings for M2 (was:Wheel Pants for tundra tires?) (Aerobatics@aol.com)
42. 09:00 PM - Re: The value of a smiley (kurt schrader)
43. 10:58 PM - Re: engine mount mis-alignment (kurt schrader)
44. 11:45 PM - Re: Re: Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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| Subject: | List member profile |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
Howard wrote:
>Michel, here is kind of what you're looking for;
Yes Howard, that's what I was thinking of. But should we continue to use this
Sportflight facility?
Scott wrote:
> Too hideous for mixed company.
... I felt off my chair, laughting at your email, Scott! My insurance company
will shortly contact you! :-)
Don wrote:
> I am programming a profile database that will enable all to enter their
> profile as information that others can see.
Thanks Don, that will be nice.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wheel Pants for tundra tires? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Hi -
I don't know the diameter of the lift struts on the Model II
so I don't have the slightest idea... Actually I don't even know
the diameter on my Series-5 as they are fiberglassed over now. I
hotwired foam core fairings for mine, and glassed over them with
two layers glass cloth, and west systems epoxy.
The fairings I have are brand new, and never used. They may have a
a bit of aerothane mist on them from being in the garage when I
was painting, but otherwise perfectly good.
Like I said, best offer + shipping takes them.
Jeff
Original Message:
-----------------
From: r.thomas@za.pwc.com
13/02/2004 06:16:09,
Serialize complete at 13/02/2004 06:16:09
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wheel Pants for tundra tires?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: r.thomas@za.pwc.com
Hi Jeff
Please can you confirm if your fairings will fit a model II. I did e-mail
SS sometime back and they responded that they did not have retrofit
fairing for a model II.
Regards
Roger
"jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
12/02/2004 17:11
Please respond to kitfox-list
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wheel Pants for tundra tires?
Size: 7 Kb
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
<jeff.hays@aselia.com>
I've got a set of the PVC fairing's from Skystar if anybody
wants them, best offer + shipping charges. Never used, just
sitting in the garage attic.
Jeff Hays
Original Message:
-----------------
From: r.thomas@za.pwc.com
12/02/2004 09:03:52,
Serialize complete at 12/02/2004 09:03:52
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wheel Pants for tundra tires?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: r.thomas@za.pwc.com
Hi Jared
Where did you get hold of some fairings for the lift struts?
Regards
Roger
jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
12/02/2004 00:15
Please respond to kitfox-list
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wheel Pants for tundra tires?
Size: 5 Kb
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
STeve, I ordered some for my tundras from spruce. They still weren't
big enough and ended up shaving them a bit but i think they will work.
I never quite figured out whether i was going to drill my axle or weld a
threaded nut on end of axle nut but did weld brackets on inside.
Definately short on space there. I did put some wing lift fairings on
and a few other things but have not tested a grid for exact speeds yet
from last year! I'm around 90 though with a 582 and the prop set for
wharp speed.
I know it's all a trade off but the brochures said i'd be flying at 105
........ so since then I can ;'t get that out of my brain.
Jared
Steve M wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve M" <ondeck355@hotmail.com>
>
>On a slightly different subject...
>
>Has anyone ever put wheel pants on the giant tundra tires that came with
>earlier Kitfoxes like my Model 2? They'd have to be big, obviously, which
>might mean they could weigh a lot. Would look funny, too, but if I was
>worried about looks I'd be flying a P-51.
>
>Some say that such big wheel pants would be pretty draggy in
themselves...
>to which I reply, think how draggy the just-as-big tundra tires are
without
>them! I can get about 60 mph IAS cruise, tops.
>
>Of course, the round wing struts are draggy too, and contribute to the
slow
>speeds. That's a seperate issue, that I'm also working on.
>
>But does anyone know where to get wheel pants big enough to fit on Kitfox
>tundra tires? Or do I have to make them? Would be my first experience
with
>foam and fiberglas, or whatever they're made of (cringe)
>
>Steve Maher
>Kitfox Model 2 "Bigfoot", Geo Metro engine
>San Diego, CA
>
>overload! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <fire_n_ice@direcway.com>
I'm looking for opinions on how to best prepare myself to fly my kitfox.
I'm a 300 hour Cherokee pilot that has not flown for eight years except to
ground loop and damage my new kitfox with an instructor four years ago.
Would it be of any value to start with a few hours instruction in a nose
wheel plane to get current before starting tail wheel training? FWIW, it
will be a different instructor and not in my kitfox.
Tom Jones, La Pine, OR
Message 4
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| Subject: | Axis Citation System for Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Hi -
I've got an Axis Citation paint system which I'm going to sell,
anybody interested? It's been used for one airplane. I have both
.05 and .07 mm nozzles for the spray gun. The system currently
lists for $843 at aircraft spruce. Spray gun is clean inside, but
has dried paint on the outside so it's not sparkling clean any
more. System works fine. I'm asking $500 for it. You'd probably
also want to buy a new respirator mask. Work's fine with the
supplied Hoses, or with (my preference) 5/8" rubber garden hose.
I've sprayed, Poly-Brush, Poly-Tone, Poly-Spray and Aerothane with
the system. No problems whatsoever. I had no problems with airline
heating, etc. as frequently read about. Results can be seen at:
http://www.aselia.com/jshays/outback.htm
System is just sitting right now, so I've decide to sell it
to somebody who will put it to use. (Also so I have some extra
money for toys the wife doesn't know about :)
Email me at: jeff.hays@aselia.com if interested.
Jeff Hays
Message 5
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| Subject: | Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Tom, I'm just a lowly UFI instructor affiliated with EAA but I would DEFINITELY
get a different Instructor and use your OWN KitFox. I have found my students much
more confident to solo when they are taught in their own aircraft.
Make sure that new Instructor has a lot of conventional gear time. You will be
much
happier with the results.
Just my humble opinion.
Steve Magdic
912 KitFox Model 3/4 Wing
Sussex Wisconsin
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Jones [mailto:fire_n_ice@direcway.com]
Subject: Kitfox-List: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <fire_n_ice@direcway.com>
I'm looking for opinions on how to best prepare myself to fly my kitfox.
I'm a 300 hour Cherokee pilot that has not flown for eight years except to
ground loop and damage my new kitfox with an instructor four years ago.
Would it be of any value to start with a few hours instruction in a nose
wheel plane to get current before starting tail wheel training? FWIW, it
will be a different instructor and not in my kitfox.
Tom Jones, La Pine, OR
Message 6
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| Subject: | Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
I never flew a taildragger before I started either.
What I did was go out and get a tailwheel endorsement in a Citabria,
then after that I flew every local taildragger I could with an instructor
(Decathalon, cub, c140), by this point I was very comfortable flying
tailwheel. Ron Liebmann took me out in his Fox, and let me handle it
inflight for about an hour. I then taxi tested mine, and did a half
dozen or so high speed tail-up taxi's down the runway (I highly
recommend this as the Fox is more sensitive on the rudder's than any of
the other's I had flown).
I did all this flight training during the last year I was building
after a 3 year layoff from flying. It was pretty easy to get up to
speed again with a good instructor.
After all this, I had no problem's flying mine. Except - That the "How
to fly a Kitfox Book" was NOT applicable to my Kitfox, and it flies
completely differently than the book describes. It floats forever, and
doesn't slow down easily, unless you fly very slow approaches. (I added
a homemade AOA system, and that helped a bunch).
Now I think everything else flies terribly, after flying the Fox for a
while.
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Tom Jones fire_n_ice@direcway.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <fire_n_ice@direcway.com>
I'm looking for opinions on how to best prepare myself to fly my kitfox.
I'm a 300 hour Cherokee pilot that has not flown for eight years except to
ground loop and damage my new kitfox with an instructor four years ago.
Would it be of any value to start with a few hours instruction in a nose
wheel plane to get current before starting tail wheel training? FWIW, it
will be a different instructor and not in my kitfox.
Tom Jones, La Pine, OR
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox |
Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:35:52 -0800
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Tom, in my opinion it would be best for you to get enough time in a tail dragger
so you are OK with it. Nose time won't do you much good.
Dee Young
Model II Idaho
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Jones<mailto:fire_n_ice@direcway.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 8:49 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <fire_n_ice@direcway.com<mailto:fire_n_ice@direcway.com>>
I'm looking for opinions on how to best prepare myself to fly my kitfox.
I'm a 300 hour Cherokee pilot that has not flown for eight years except to
ground loop and damage my new kitfox with an instructor four years ago.
Would it be of any value to start with a few hours instruction in a nose
wheel plane to get current before starting tail wheel training? FWIW, it
will be a different instructor and not in my kitfox.
Tom Jones, La Pine, OR
Message 8
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| Subject: | Strut fairings for M2 (was:Wheel Pants for tundra tires?) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve M" <ondeck355@hotmail.com>
Skystar's fairings are for later models that have larger diameter struts
than the Model 2's struts. I have a hunch you could "make them fit" by
filling in all the extra space with expanding foam or something. I've been
considering doing that to mine, bu haven't bit the bullet yet.
Steve Maher
Kitfox Model 2, Geo Metro engine
San Diego, CA
>From: r.thomas@za.pwc.com
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wheel Pants for tundra tires?
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:15:58 +0200 13/02/2004 06:16:09, Serialize
>complete at 13/02/2004 06:16:09
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: r.thomas@za.pwc.com
>
>Hi Jeff
>
>Please can you confirm if your fairings will fit a model II. I did e-mail
>SS sometime back and they responded that they did not have retrofit
>fairing for a model II.
>
>Regards
>Roger
>
>
Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize your
online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Tom Jones wrote:
> I'm looking for opinions on how to best prepare myself to fly my kitfox.
Tom, this is my Kitfox experience:
One year ago, I bought a Kitfox while I had only 20 hours training in a
tricycle Sky Arrow with an instructor. I couldn't get a taildragger instructor
before May. I was not allowed to fly my plane but was allowed to taxi it. So, I
went taxiing when everyone else was gone for the day. Getting acquainted with
my model 3, I asked then permission to do high-speed taxiing on the runway. It
was granted and I went on, first very slowly, having the tail up only a few
seconds. And again, and again. Never too often on a day, but rather a bit at
the time and as many times as I could.
Then one day it became hard to turn at the end of the runway, taxi tail up and
not ... take off. But May had come and my instructor, after testing himself the
plane alone, took me up for the first time in what was going to by my very own
plane, my beloved Tango, as I call her.
As we were doing our first landings, I found that I could easily stay ahead of
the plane and prevent any yaw tendency. But it was bumpy landing. I would
either land too fast, or stall out too high. Again, practice and practice. I
couldn't get the hang of it at first. Then, one day, I just did it. I don't
know how, but I was "with the plane." Just as when you drive your car, you
don't stare at the road ahead, you're just "with the car." Then we went fast
through all emergency procedures, the navigation test, etc. and ... by July I
got my license.
I have no advice to you, my friend. I just hope that my experience can inspire
you. May all the rookies guarding angels be with you!
Michel
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <fire_n_ice@direcway.com>
Here's some clarification on my question. I contacted a flight school with
a champ and they told me to go get 5 or 6 hours dual in a nose wheel plane
first. That kind of surprised me. I figured money would be better spent
all on tail wheel rental and instruction. Using my kitfox for instruction
is not an option. It is in phase one. I know there are opinions otherwise,
but I won't do it.
Tom Jones
> I'm looking for opinions on how to best prepare myself to fly my kitfox.
> I'm a 300 hour Cherokee pilot that has not flown for eight years except to
> ground loop and damage my new kitfox with an instructor four years ago.
> Would it be of any value to start with a few hours instruction in a nose
> wheel plane to get current before starting tail wheel training? FWIW, it
> will be a different instructor and not in my kitfox.
> Tom Jones, La Pine, OR
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <fire_n_ice@direcway.com>
> I have no advice to you, my friend. I just hope that my experience can
inspire
> you. May all the rookies guarding angels be with you!
>
> Michel
Michel,
I have followed your saga on this list for the past year with great
interest. You have inspired me more than anything or anyone, to get off my
butt and learn to fly my kitfox!!
Tom Jones
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ray Kurian" <raykurian@earthlink.net>
Tom,
They might be wanting you to get comfortable flying again, so that you can
concentrate on the ground handling characteristics of the tail dragger when
you start doing your conversion training.
Just my .02
Ray Kurian
raykurian@earthlink.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Jones" <fire_n_ice@direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <fire_n_ice@direcway.com>
>
> Here's some clarification on my question. I contacted a flight school
with
> a champ and they told me to go get 5 or 6 hours dual in a nose wheel plane
> first. That kind of surprised me. I figured money would be better spent
> all on tail wheel rental and instruction. Using my kitfox for instruction
> is not an option. It is in phase one. I know there are opinions
otherwise,
> but I won't do it.
> Tom Jones
>
> > I'm looking for opinions on how to best prepare myself to fly my kitfox.
> > I'm a 300 hour Cherokee pilot that has not flown for eight years except
to
> > ground loop and damage my new kitfox with an instructor four years ago.
> > Would it be of any value to start with a few hours instruction in a nose
> > wheel plane to get current before starting tail wheel training? FWIW,
it
> > will be a different instructor and not in my kitfox.
> > Tom Jones, La Pine, OR
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax alternator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
> This subject has been an ongoing thread on the aeroelectric list. Here in a
nutshell are your options:
> 1) For a Kitfox the Europa fix wont work. It has the alternator co-axial to the
crank at the stator. The Kitfox has inadequate clearance for this option.
> 2) The front mount unit is offered by Rotax for $$$$ but a Canadian company has
the setup with belt, brackets, and trick pulley for much less. See the Lockwood
catalog. This unit mounts on the front and requires a bubble in the nose
cowl to cover the hardware.
> 3) A good bet IMO, would be a DIY setup with a pully on the stator using a custom
made stator attachment bolt & pully. And your own derived brackets and a
salvage yard Nippo Denso alternator. Thus the cowl would remain clean. This option
should be low cost.
> 4a) My favorite option. Buy the next size larger battery and live with the stock
Rotax alternator at 15-18 amps. Manage your energy and be sure to have a fully
charged battery from ground power before each flight. This is the lowest
cost solution.
> 4b) A two battery setup would fall into this energy management option. When the
first one dies switch over the the second one and switch to the endurance mode
until you can land. The Aeroelectric book has the schematic for the Rotax
with one alternator and two batteries and the endurance buss schematics (also
two alternators and one or two batteries). This is a simple $50 cost for the extra
battery. Be sure to have a fully charged batteries from ground power before
each flight.
>
> Another trick is to wire your position lights in series for less illumination
and half the amps. Nobody will know but you and your battery. :-)
>
> Regards, Paul W
Message 14
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| Subject: | Opinions on preparing to fly Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
BEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tom, There is a man in Sun River that has lots of hours in a KFIII. Mike
is his name.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Subject: Kitfox-List: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <fire_n_ice@direcway.com>
I'm looking for opinions on how to best prepare myself to fly my kitfox.
I'm a 300 hour Cherokee pilot that has not flown for eight years except to
ground loop and damage my new kitfox with an instructor four years ago.
Would it be of any value to start with a few hours instruction in a nose
wheel plane to get current before starting tail wheel training? FWIW, it
will be a different instructor and not in my kitfox.
Tom Jones, La Pine, OR
Message 15
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| Subject: | Strut fairings for M2 (was:Wheel Pants for tundra tires?) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
You know Steve, the way those fairings just snap together I think you could
just lay some high density 1/8" weather sealing tape on the inside of each
side of the fairing and that would be enough to hold them steady. They are
also held in place at the root connection of the two struts by the aluminum
fairing.
I can actually twist and move mine on the struts and I use this to sometimes
trim when I add full fuel to my one and only wing tank on the passenger
side.
By twisting the Passenger side fairing with a little positive angle attack
it more than compensates for the previous wing droop.
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Skystar's fairings are for later models that have larger diameter struts
than the Model 2's struts. I have a hunch you could "make them fit" by
filling in all the extra space with expanding foam or something. I've been
considering doing that to mine, bu haven't bit the bullet yet.
Steve Maher
Kitfox Model 2, Geo Metro engine
San Diego, CA
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
Kurt, I appreciate your experience & expertise, but I am disappointed to hear that
you consider my needs to be nit picking. Apparently you just don't understand
that I believe the plane should not require constant left-stick pressure
to maintain level flight. Is this wrong or unreasonable?
I merely asked those on the list for opinions on what I can do to correct the situation.
I do not consider this to be trivial, nor nit picking. However, in
the few months that I have subscribed to this list I have seen many unchallenged
threads that do fall into this category, wasting bandwidth & time.
Ron Carroll
KF3/582 - Oregon
Time: 12:45:11 AM PST US
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . .
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Ron,
Great to hear that your plane is so good now that you
have to pick nits. :-)
I was wondering whether you have enough dihedral in
the wings because of your statement below. The
building instructions should give the required amount.
I know that the earlier models had a bit less
directional and roll stability and this may be all it
is. But it would be worth checking to see if the
dihedral is off and if so, to correct it. That may
allow you to pick up a wing with rudder. Then you can
trim the plane better and maybe all your nits will
become microscopic.
Kurt S.
Ron Carroll
Oregon, USA
RonCarr@Qwest.Net
Message 17
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| Subject: | Cowling for a Jabiru |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Mike Chaney wrote:
> The cowling (Model IV) was a tough job compared to the installation of the
> engine.
Thank you, Mike. I start to get a better picture now. I see that the Swedish
Kitfox owner did a not so pretty job:
http://www.algonet.se/~lgk-alv/image/xoffr2.jpg
but you decided to extend the length of the cowling to give more room to the engine.
Hum. I wonder, is it possible to fit a smooth Kitfox cowling on a model 3?
After all, the round cowling is meant for a rotary engine. While it would be
cool to have the Rotec engine, it won't fit in the existing engine anyway. So,
why not have a smooth cowling that looks like what planes with air-cooled
engine have?
Does anyone have done that? I mean, changing the round cowling for a smooth one?
Thanks in advance,
Michel
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: The value of a smiley WAS Re:Ailerons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Ron Carroll wrote:
> Kurt, I appreciate your experience & expertise, but I am disappointed
> to hear that you consider my needs to be nit picking.
Ron, I am sure Kurt meant that as a friendly joke. There was a smiley after
that sentence.
At least, I hope so because I once proposed to marry him. I think I put a
smiley after that sentence, didn't I? Otherwise I might see Kurt knocking at my
door one day and ask my hand. I don't think my wife will like that! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Ron,
Easy there! Didn't you see the smiley face he put after his comment? :-)
That means it was "tongue in cheek". He was just joking with you!
Best Regards,
Cliff
>
> Kurt, I appreciate your experience & expertise, but I am disappointed to
hear that you consider my needs to be nit picking. Apparently you just
don't understand that I believe the plane should not require constant
left-stick pressure to maintain level flight. Is this wrong or
unreasonable?
>
> I merely asked those on the list for opinions on what I can do to correct
the situation. I do not consider this to be trivial, nor nit picking.
However, in the few months that I have subscribed to this list I have seen
many unchallenged threads that do fall into this category, wasting bandwidth
& time.
>
> Ron Carroll
> KF3/582 - Oregon
>
>
> Time: 12:45:11 AM PST US
> From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . .
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Ron,
>
> Great to hear that your plane is so good now that you
> have to pick nits. :-)
>
> I was wondering whether you have enough dihedral in
> the wings because of your statement below. The
> building instructions should give the required amount.
>
> I know that the earlier models had a bit less
> directional and roll stability and this may be all it
> is. But it would be worth checking to see if the
> dihedral is off and if so, to correct it. That may
> allow you to pick up a wing with rudder. Then you can
> trim the plane better and maybe all your nits will
> become microscopic.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> Ron Carroll
> Oregon, USA
> RonCarr@Qwest.Net
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Ron,
I greatly apologize for my poor wording and any
offense you may feal. I was just trying to joke with
you that now you can join us "nit pickers". You have
had a tough time fighting with a plane that scared you
and now you can relax enough to address things that
just make it fly nice. I really hope that your
experience from now on is such that you can not wait
to fly again and that all your problems stay so small.
Really! I am very sorry I wrote badly.
Kurt S.
--- Ron Carroll <RonCarr@Qwest.Net> wrote:
>
> Kurt, I appreciate your experience & expertise, but
> I am disappointed to hear that you consider my needs
> to be nit picking. Apparently you just don't
> understand that I believe the plane should not
> require constant left-stick pressure to maintain
> level flight. Is this wrong or unreasonable?
__________________________________
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Ron,
Must say that, after reading your post, I also thought that your plane
now fly "acceptable".
Ron Carroll wrote:
I believe the plane should not require constant left-stick pressure to
maintain level flight. Is this wrong or unreasonable?
OK., if you leave the stick-, will it move to the right??
When you make the (constant) correction, is the stick in the center, -or
is it offset to the left?
Torgeir.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Hey Ron -
I haven't read the entire thread, but it seems to me that what I would
do is to start trying tweaking the flaperon linkage adjustment a little
bit at a time until it trims straight and level. You can certainly turn
the adjuster's a bit at a time, test fly, repeat, until it's correct.
No you're not being nit picky. Mine flies a 1/2 ball out in level flight,
and bugs the heck out of me. Just a slight rudder trim issue I need to
fix.
Jeff
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Ron Carroll RonCarr@Qwest.Net
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . .
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
Kurt, I appreciate your experience & expertise, but I am disappointed to
hear that you consider my needs to be nit picking. Apparently you just
don't understand that I believe the plane should not require constant
left-stick pressure to maintain level flight. Is this wrong or
unreasonable?
I merely asked those on the list for opinions on what I can do to correct
the situation. I do not consider this to be trivial, nor nit picking.
However, in the few months that I have subscribed to this list I have seen
many unchallenged threads that do fall into this category, wasting
bandwidth & time.
Ron Carroll
KF3/582 - Oregon
Time: 12:45:11 AM PST US
From: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . .
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Ron,
Great to hear that your plane is so good now that you
have to pick nits. :-)
I was wondering whether you have enough dihedral in
the wings because of your statement below. The
building instructions should give the required amount.
I know that the earlier models had a bit less
directional and roll stability and this may be all it
is. But it would be worth checking to see if the
dihedral is off and if so, to correct it. That may
allow you to pick up a wing with rudder. Then you can
trim the plane better and maybe all your nits will
become microscopic.
Kurt S.
Ron Carroll
Oregon, USA
RonCarr@Qwest.Net
Message 23
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| Subject: | Torgeir's Bedtime |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Hey Torgeir -
Aren't you in Norway? By my calculation, shouldn't it be past
your bed time right now? Go to sleep! :)
Jeff
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Torgeir's Bedtime |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hey Jeff,
I'm a kind of a "B-human", to bed-, veeery late and up at 6:30 in the
morning. :-)
Just passed mid night right now, but you know-, it's weekend and
raining. :-(
I'll follow your advice, soooon...
Torgeir.
Do Not Archeive
"jeff.hays@aselia.com" wrote:
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
>
> Hey Torgeir -
>
> Aren't you in Norway? By my calculation, shouldn't it be past
> your bed time right now? Go to sleep! :)
>
> Jeff
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Ron,
Here is another one, I've found in "my" computer arch., might be
interesting for you.
See below.
Torgeir.
...................
Subject: Re: wing rigging
From: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Tom & Don,
After quite a few hours of flying your foxes, and doing some more
adjusting of the lift strut rod ends, you may end up doing what I did.
I added a 12"x2" trim tap to one flaperon, and adjusted it for cruise
speed. With a full wing tank (right side only), it wants to bank right,
but later flies straight. These foxes are sensitive, and you can
descend by leaning forward, or climb by bringing legs and arms back, or
turn by moving both arms to one side!
But they are fun!
Enjoy,
Bruce H.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Jones <bkjones@bendnet.com>
Subject: Re: wing rigging
>Don,
>I chased the dihedral/washout on my wings for two or three full days
during
>construction. I didn't have SL 25 and called Skystar and found that SL
25A
>was on it's way. Mark told me not to about the dihedral not being
exactly
>the same on each wing. If there is some dihedral the wings will fly
level
>and you'll never be able to tell that the fuselage is hanging an inch
or two
>off one way or the other. He said the washout (twist) of 1/2 inch is
more
>critical.
>
>I would rather have the strut rod ends set in their center of
adjustment so
>you have some adjustment available to change the wing twist if you find
a
>need to during flight testing.
>
>And by the way, my wings tips are within about inch or so of the same
>height when spread but a couple of inches out of level with each other
when
>folded. Mark said it's due to weld warp in the fuselage. A hair there
>makes a big difference at the wing tip.
>Tom Jones
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Smythe Donald F NNVA" <SmytheDF@supship.navy.mil>
>To: <kitfox@sportflight.com>
>Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 6:50 AM
>Subject: wing rigging
>
>
>> I spent the last couple days working on setting my dihedral.
When I
>> first set the wings to the a/c, I didn't have SS service letter #25
and
>#25
>> A/B (which describes, how to measure dihedral).
>> Anyway, mine was off a little more than I wanted it to be and
ended up
>> adjusting one wing all the way down and the other all the way up on
the
>rod
>> ends (within thread safety). Yesterday, I found #25 and tried that
>> procedure. My dihedral angle is slightly higher than the service
letter
>> calls for but, they are equal between sides.
>> When intially setting wings, make sure you have the service
letter.
>>
>> Don Smythe
>
>
......................
End of message
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Torgeir's Bedtime |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
> I'm a kind of a "B-human", to bed-, veeery late and up at 6:30 in the
> morning. :-)
... so am I, in south Norway! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: 912 overhaul |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
Mike,
Go to your book and do the applicable inspection for the hours. Next, check
all your fittings and put standoffs where hoses are rubbing together. Change
out the coolant. Next, pull your fuel lines and check for any swelling
because you don't know what fuel was used. You can check the hoses in the
engine compartment by removing at the fuel pump. That is a good indicator.
The stator is not hard to do, it is a little time consuming. You have to be
patient. Make sure you are cycling the prop thru since it hasn't flown for a
while. If you get caught on a compression stroke don't force it. Remove a
spark plug and cycle it. The 912 is a pretty sturdy engine. Neglect doesn't
do so much damage to it as doing something stupid with it like modifications
or over temping or over revving it. Jeff Classic IV Orient, Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: <HOLZY@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 overhaul
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: HOLZY@aol.com
>
> Cliff,
>
> I have a model IV that I just purchased in Dec. It was completed in 95
but
> has only 80 hours. The person I bought it from, (second owner, not
builder)
> put on about 25, but only flew it 3 hours in the last 3 years. It seems
that he
> knew very little about the engine and went by a "if it aint broke don't
fix
> it" mentality in regards to the recalls & items you mentioned to David
(stator,
> oil pump, etc). Based on your knowledge of the 912 what recommecdations
> could you make as to the immediate necessity of these items. I plan to
take it to
> the local Rotax dealer when the weather gets nice, but am wondering about
> flying it before then. I haven't even flown it yet as it is not sealed
well & I
> live in Wisconsin. The guy that ferried it home for me froze his butt
off! I
> had hoped to put in an hour here or there with my CFI on semi nice days so
I
> can have my tailwheel endorsement by spring. Do you think this is wise or
> should I wait until the shop can make the updates? I would have been
more
> reluctant to buy from a guy who seemed to have done so little to it but
with only
> 80 hrs it seemed like a good bet. What are your thoughts?
>
> Mike Holzberger
> Milwaukee, WI
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Kit for first time buyer |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
Listers,
I'm 6' , 200 lbs. and am looking for my first kit to
build. I'm an instrument rated private pilot with no
tail dragger time. I work for a living and money isn't
as available as it should be.
What's a good Kitfox to build?
Any other recommended kits?
What is a good engine choice?
Should I buy new, or try to find a pre-purchased, but
"not built" kit?
At the end of the day, it will still be up to me to decide. But
I'd like to hear any and all opinions and biases.
100 mph is fine...mostly alone, occasionally one other person.
Probably 100 hours per year, 200 mile trips average (one way).
Thanks in advance....
Dan Sherburn
Spring Lake, MI
Message 29
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jack Seaford" <jseaford@bellsouth.net>
I have a new model 4-1200 that flew left all the time, by small steps with the
strut rigging I was able to fly plane straight and level, hands off the stick.
It took about 3 or 4 times by turning the adjustment about 2 turns per try, also
the plane would yaw left, to fix this I made a rudder trim.
Plane fly's almost perfect now.
I don't think adjusting the aileron linkage will fix your problem.
Jack Seaford
Kitfox 4-1200
Message 30
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| Subject: | Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
NO,
Get some time in a tail dragger.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Subject: Kitfox-List: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones <fire_n_ice@direcway.com>
I'm looking for opinions on how to best prepare myself to fly my kitfox.
I'm a 300 hour Cherokee pilot that has not flown for eight years except to
ground loop and damage my new kitfox with an instructor four years ago.
Would it be of any value to start with a few hours instruction in a nose
wheel plane to get current before starting tail wheel training? FWIW, it
will be a different instructor and not in my kitfox.
Tom Jones, La Pine, OR
Message 31
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Barry Huston" <barryehuston@earthlink.net>
Please be Reminded---Never Rotate the PROP in the REVERSE direction on a
912 --- facing the PROP
rotate it CCW.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 overhaul
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
>
> Mike,
> Go to your book and do the applicable inspection for the hours. Next,
check
> all your fittings and put standoffs where hoses are rubbing together.
Change
> out the coolant. Next, pull your fuel lines and check for any swelling
> because you don't know what fuel was used. You can check the hoses in the
> engine compartment by removing at the fuel pump. That is a good indicator.
> The stator is not hard to do, it is a little time consuming. You have to
be
> patient. Make sure you are cycling the prop thru since it hasn't flown for
a
> while. If you get caught on a compression stroke don't force it. Remove a
> spark plug and cycle it. The 912 is a pretty sturdy engine. Neglect
doesn't
> do so much damage to it as doing something stupid with it like
modifications
> or over temping or over revving it. Jeff Classic IV Orient, Ohio
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <HOLZY@aol.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 overhaul
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: HOLZY@aol.com
> >
> > Cliff,
> >
> > I have a model IV that I just purchased in Dec. It was completed in 95
> but
> > has only 80 hours. The person I bought it from, (second owner, not
> builder)
> > put on about 25, but only flew it 3 hours in the last 3 years. It seems
> that he
> > knew very little about the engine and went by a "if it aint broke don't
> fix
> > it" mentality in regards to the recalls & items you mentioned to David
> (stator,
> > oil pump, etc). Based on your knowledge of the 912 what recommecdations
> > could you make as to the immediate necessity of these items. I plan to
> take it to
> > the local Rotax dealer when the weather gets nice, but am wondering
about
> > flying it before then. I haven't even flown it yet as it is not sealed
> well & I
> > live in Wisconsin. The guy that ferried it home for me froze his butt
> off! I
> > had hoped to put in an hour here or there with my CFI on semi nice days
so
> I
> > can have my tailwheel endorsement by spring. Do you think this is wise
or
>
> > should I wait until the shop can make the updates? I would have been
> more
> > reluctant to buy from a guy who seemed to have done so little to it but
> with only
> > 80 hrs it seemed like a good bet. What are your thoughts?
> >
> > Mike Holzberger
> > Milwaukee, WI
> >
> >
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re:Accurate Wing washout was Ailerons - To trim or not to |
trim . . .
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
Hi all,
There is an easy way to very accurately check the wings are symmetrical in
rigging the washout.
I can't take credit for this one, don't recall where I saw it, but pretty
easy, similar to method some use to measure prop blade pitch on ground adjustable
blades.
1. Make a little plywood jig that fastens at the root of the wing, L/E to
T/E. Make a
bracket for a small laser "pointer" on it
2. Make another jig for area about at the strut
3. Put aircraft pointing against a wall
4. Level airplane
5. Place laser pointer on each jig, mark wall, both wings, If not
symmetrical
you at least have a place to start.
Some made another jig for the tip area, Your choice on that one.
IF looks good at root & strut, but tip off ~~ whoops trammeling problem, wing
probably not square, then go to the ailerons, however your plane should fly
straight, no rudder or aileron pressure, stick in middle.
This is an excellent theory, HOWEVER these are experimental aircraft :-)
I have the exact notes somewhere if any one wants detail let me know off list
& I will try and find them.
Elbie
I've flown lots of out of rig planes ~ but why? :-)
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Carroll" <RonCarr@Qwest.Net>
Kurt, 1st I want to apologize for being a little touchy. I have it so close now
that this seems to be the final frustrating obstacle. The reason for my tenacity
is because I have faith that the plane will fly well when rigged properly.
My original problem was due to sloppily drilled holes in the mixer bar. Fixing
that made a world of difference, and I thought I was home free. It flew 99.9%
better. However, that 0.1% is still there, just enough for me to know it just
ain't right - yet.
It was suggested that I adjust the washout, in an attempt to hold the heavy wing
up, but was reminded that the lift gained by increasing the angle of incidence
of the right wing only created more drag in the right side (liftdrag). After
having a lengthy conversation with a brilliant friend, we believe we have figured
this thing out. I should never have changed the washout in either wing,
unless I changed it on both sides equally. Washout provides for the outboard
ends of the wings to stall at the same time. Changing one side would result
in one side stalling before the other (not good, especially when landing).
I was reminded that the dihedral basically stabilizes the plane in lever flight.
If there is more dihedral in one wing than the other, that wing will have more
lift than the other (this was demonstrated by hypothetically increasing the
dihedral in one wing to 90=B0 [straight up]- demonstrating that the wing raised
to this extreme angle would have no lift). The other wing would retain it's
lift. Let's call that 'one wing heavy', which is what I seem to be having.
Because the dihedral now measures 1/2=B0 less in the left wing than the right,
I will now readjust the washout so that they are exactly the same for both wings,
then adjust the dihedral so that it too is equal for both wings. I will
then expect the plane fly nearly as designed. If there is still a slight need
I will try a small trim tab.
If the above proves out as expected I will give my friend a great big kiss right
on top of his balding head, and then remind everyone that washout should be
equal on both wings, as should dihedral. Playing with the lift struts to change
either of these from the plans can creates new problems. Kurt, your last message
seems to agree with this thinking, thanks
I hope we are all right about this!
Ron Carroll
KF3/582 - Oregon
Subject: Re: Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . .
From: kurt schrader (smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com)
Date: Thu Feb 12 - 12:45 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Ron,
Great to hear that your plane is so good now that you
have to pick nits. :-)
I was wondering whether you have enough dihedral in
the wings because of your statement below. The
building instructions should give the required amount.
I know that the earlier models had a bit less
directional and roll stability and this may be all it
is. But it would be worth checking to see if the
dihedral is off and if so, to correct it. That may
allow you to pick up a wing with rudder. Then you can
trim the plane better and maybe all your nits will
become microscopic.
Kurt S
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re:Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
I have flown an early Model 1. Before you get too exited about holding left stick,
apply left rudder and check it. The early Kitfoxes had terrible rudders, the
hinge line was on the center of pressure and airplane had no tendency to fly
straight which was all corrected with the Model IV-1200. and later Foxes. Notice
the huge cartoon like rudders on the Kitfoxes they were put on their for
a reason. Clint
Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed Marketplace.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Opinions on preparing to fly kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Barbara Jones <fire_n_ice@direcway.com>
> They might be wanting you to get comfortable flying again, so that you can
> concentrate on the ground handling characteristics of the tail dragger
when
> you start doing your conversion training.
> Ray Kurian
Ray, She didn't elaborate on what the nose wheel training would accomplish
except to say in her experience I would be better off. She is a "Master
Flight instructor" so I think she must have a good basis for recommending
it.
>Tom, in my opinion it would be best for you to get enough time in a tail
dragger so you are OK with it. Nose >time won't do you much good.
>Dee Young
>NO,
>Get some time in a tail dragger.
Dee and Glenn, not to mention the hole it will put in my training fund. My
insurance quotes all require 15 hrs dual in a tail dragger. I can't argue
with that and will probably get more. Adding another 5 or 6 hrs nose wheel
dual will get kind of expensive at $110/hr...That's two days wages for low
paid Central Oregon retirees like myself. My 912 fund would have to take
another hit.
>Tom, There is a man in Sun River that has lots of hours in a KFIII. Mike
>is his name.
Noel, there is a Mike from Sunriver in our Bend EAA Chapter that used to own
a nice red model 3. That is probably the one. I had an offer from another
guy that wanted to fly off the 40 hrs test period in my plane then give me
the training in it but I just can't see doing that.
Tom Jones
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re:Accurate Wing washout was Ailerons - To trim or not |
to trim
. . .
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
Fly the plane, you will find out in a hurry.
Keep up with high-tech trends here at "Hook'd on Technology."
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re:Accurate Wing washout was Ailerons - To trim or not |
to tr...
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
In a message dated 2/13/04 5:27:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
clint_bazzill@hotmail.com writes:
Fly the plane, you will find out in a hurry.
If it don't fly right, find out why it doesn't!
Making adjustments without knowing why is like using an incorrect checklist,
might work, might not!
Elbie
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: The value of a smiley WAS Re:Ailerons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
She might, has she seen Kurt... :) Please note smiley face.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Subject: Kitfox-List: The value of a smiley WAS Re:Ailerons
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Ron Carroll wrote:
> Kurt, I appreciate your experience & expertise, but I am disappointed
> to hear that you consider my needs to be nit picking.
Ron, I am sure Kurt meant that as a friendly joke. There was a smiley after
that sentence.
At least, I hope so because I once proposed to marry him. I think I put a
smiley after that sentence, didn't I? Otherwise I might see Kurt knocking at
my
door one day and ask my hand. I don't think my wife will like that! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 39
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| Subject: | engine mount mis-alignment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Arthur Nation <anation@w-link.net>
To the List:
I have just discovered another Skystar foul-up.
While looking at various engine options, I decided to attach the 912S
engine mount to the firewall (not mounted on airframe). This is a Skystar FWF
kit for the S7. To my horror, the upper four mounting holes did not match. I
decided I could drill new holes but was the error in the firewall holes, or
was the engine mount welded incorrectly.
I found that by placing the engine mount against the airframe mounting
holes, THEY DID NOT MATCH!!! To make sure I was not just off because I was
holding the mount up by hand, I reamed one set of matching holes. This was
the upper left set as viewed from outside the cockpit.
The AN4 bolt was installed in the upper left set of holes and the other
holes checked. The lower left hole was in good alignment but the two right
side holes were not even close. The upper hole was out by the diameter of the
tubing on the engine mount, while the bottom right hole was more than 1/4 inch
out of alignment.
In other words, this engine mount is JUNK. Not bad as part of a FWF kit
costing $3825.00.
I must commend Skystar for there ability to let me have it in every way
possible.
I think everyone should check their engine mounts for alignment with the
airframe and firewall. Please respond with your results. I may not be the only
one with this problem.
Arthur Nation
Tacoma, WA
partial S7 kit (for sure)
Message 40
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| Subject: | engine mount mis-alignment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Arthur Nation <anation@w-link.net>
I forgot to mention, in my original post, that the bottom mounting hole
is also out of alignment as well as not reaching the firewall.The engine
mount there lacks about 3/16 inch of being against the airframe and the hole
is out by 1/2 of the bolt width.
Arthur Nation
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Strut fairings for M2 (was:Wheel Pants for tundra tires?) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
I tried to find lift strut fairings and was unsuccessful. As a test, I
simply shaped Blue foam aft of the tubing and I was amazed at the improvement.
Cheap and easy.
I now cruise at 80 mph with an IVO.....
The differance was so dramatic, I missed judged the first landing with
them....
Good luck,
Dave KF 2 582
Message 42
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| Subject: | The value of a smiley |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
They have both seen my picture and that is why they
are still married and I am not. :-( Note: No
smiley face - boo whoo. And I have never been to Nome
Alaska. :-)
Sheeshhh, I am taking a risk here again, since so few
of you get my jokes these days.
Kurt S.
Still don't archive
--- Rick <turboflyer@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick"
> <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
> She might, has she seen Kurt... :) Please note
> smiley face.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> <michel@online.no>
>
> Ron Carroll wrote:
> > Kurt, I appreciate your experience & expertise,
> but I am disappointed
> > to hear that you consider my needs to be nit
> picking.
>
> Ron, I am sure Kurt meant that as a friendly joke.
> There was a smiley after
> that sentence.
> At least, I hope so because I once proposed to marry
> him. I think I put a
> smiley after that sentence, didn't I? Otherwise I
> might see Kurt knocking at
> my
> door one day and ask my hand. I don't think my wife
> will like that! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
__________________________________
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: engine mount mis-alignment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Arthur,
I wonder if they just sent an engine mount for the
wrong series plane? Is it for the -7 for sure? Does
the firewall match the plane and it is only the mount
that is off? Or does nothing match?
Kurt S.
__________________________________
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Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons - To trim or not to trim . . . |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Ron,
Do not archive.
You are OK and I have already mentioned your tanacity
with admiration to others. You have done well with a
bad situation for sure. You did kick my rear, but...
Just don't make me marry Michel! :~)
I was aware that your previous flights with your new
plane, before your fixes, were risky and you had every
right to be scared and mad at the poor work by the
builder. You were knowingly put at risk, in my mind.
I have hesitated to speak badly of someone I don't
know, but I will say for you that you were done wrong.
You might have been thinking of "lemons" and high
repair expenses for a bit there too.
I did recognize that you had been "on edge" and I
tried to use humor to welcome you back from it,
thinking the situation was resolved. I would really
like it if you fell in love with your plane like
Michel did. KitFoxes are great, but yours was less
than great and it wasn't your fault.
It was my failure. You were right on the edge and you
were keeping your effort up until you are finished.
That keeps you on edge, but it also gets the job
really done, which in flying keeps you alive. You've
stuck to it and asked for help here without letting
your ego or fear get in the way. You have my respect.
As for the bald guy, if he is the one who thinks
basket balls belong in airplane noses as bumpers, say
"HI" for me. That is the guy I met when I was there
and he seemed alright - for a pilot. :-)
As for this roll problem, I still think that you
should get the manual out and re-rig the plane from
the start. You could have an accumlation of errors
and be chasing them for years otherwise. It might
turn out that rerigging the plane will make it fly as
it should. Since your are adjusting so much, just do
it all and get it right.
This should only take part of one day, after you read
and understand all the directions. I would do the
whole flight controls and make it a weekend project
myself. It can't hurt and you might not only learn
from it, but improve the flyijg that much more.
Be picky here - really! I have heard nothing but good
things about people who rig carefully. Straight
planes are a pleasure to be admired and enjoyed.
A suggested goal: Make the builder think he sold it
to you too cheaply because it flys so well now. That
is my kind of revenge. ;-)
Question: Did you get those engine mounts put
together correctly? I remember that they were wrong
too.
In the end, you might be able to say you did build
this plane. It just came as an assembled kit that you
rebuilt. Another attempt at humor? :-)
Stay positive!
Kurt S.
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