Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:11 AM - Re: Fitting Wings Model IV Speedster (kurt schrader)
2. 12:20 AM - Re: Re: Back on the list (kurt schrader)
3. 07:09 AM - Re: Model 3 with VW peformance (John Larsen)
4. 08:36 AM - Re: 912S Starter Issue (Len Shorethose)
5. 08:36 AM - VW performance (Bill Pleso)
6. 09:06 AM - Re: Re: Back on the list (David Dawe)
7. 09:15 AM - Re: Model 3 with VW peformance (Bruce Harrington)
8. 09:56 AM - Re: 912S Starter Issue (JMCBEAN)
9. 10:00 AM - Re: VW performance (JMCBEAN)
10. 10:00 AM - Re: Tri-Gear Nose Weights? (JMCBEAN)
11. 11:16 AM - Re: 912S Starter Issue (Len Shorethose)
12. 11:47 AM - Re: 912S Starter Issue (JMCBEAN)
13. 01:03 PM - Re: Re: Warpdrive props (Jeff Thomas)
14. 02:01 PM - Re: EGT Cold Joint Calibration point (Westberg types). (Torgeir Mortensen)
15. 04:11 PM - Rotax 532 Starter (David Dawe)
16. 04:19 PM - Re: EGT Cold Joint Calibration point (Westberg types). (Torgeir Mortensen)
17. 04:25 PM - Dead Battery (Tc9008@aol.com)
18. 04:26 PM - Re: Rotax 532 Starter (Torgeir Mortensen)
19. 04:34 PM - Re: VW performance (Paul Seehafer)
20. 05:01 PM - Re: Model 3 with VW peformance (Paul Seehafer)
21. 05:03 PM - Re: Dead Battery (Torgeir Mortensen)
22. 05:41 PM - Re: Knight Upholstery for Kitfox E:\EUDORA\OUTGOING\OUTGOING\KIT... (Tc9008@aol.com)
23. 05:57 PM - Model 2 with Geo Metro engine (Steve M)
24. 07:26 PM - Trying to find 3-View Drawings of a Kitfox 5 Outback (Jeff Smathers)
25. 08:04 PM - Re: Model 2 with Geo Metro engine (Lowell Fitt)
26. 09:10 PM - Re: Rotax 532 Starter (Bob Robertson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting Wings Model IV Speedster |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Tom and Jimmie,
Do not archive.
I don't really have a good name for it, so you can
call it whatever works for you. Of course it is
simple. So am I. :-)
I still have mine up in the garage taking up space,
but it would cost more to mail it out than for each of
you to make a new one of your own.
I truely have minimal tools of my own. Came from a
long line of "do-it-yourself" people. Wisconsin
farmers. I borrow when I have to, but often resort to
making the special tools I need. My sister gave me a
cordless drill for Christmas and that was a primary
tool for building this plane. Now the drill is dead.
:-( Ok, ok... I did buy one of my own to replace it.
:-)
It helped that a friend built his plane in my garage
when I built mine, and he was better equipped. Ah
look, a drill press! A metal brake! Well, the brake
is gone again, but the drill press is still here.
So you can build a KF with minimal tools and it will
fly. Friends help. Here on this list, we find
friends. I just try to give back.
Kurt S.
--- Barbara Jones <fire_n_ice@direcway.com> wrote:
>
> Jimmie and Kurt,
> Would calling it a "Strap Duplicator" help describe
> it. Kurt, where were you when I was rigging my
> wings. That is a really really good idea, and so
> simple.
> Tom Jones
>
> > Kurt
> > Great information and I really appreciate the time
> you have taken to enlighten me. I am still confused
> about what a blind hole finder is. I'll do some
> research on the web though. I am a bit dumb about
> some of the terms as I am a first time builder and
> have just never used a lot of the tools that are
> necessary to build the Kitfox.
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Back on the list |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Marc,
Do not archive.
I should have said "all of you Canadians" can compete
with stories, not just you. We have several Canadians
on the list and they have had some good stories from
time to time too. Canada and Alaska are prime
realestate for flying and no doubt have long histories
of flying heroics to boot. A continuing history....
The Fox is just right for us homebuilders to do that
kind of exploring too. Just compare what we can do
now with a KF versus what they did in the 20's with
Jennys! We have power, reliability and.... and CABIN
HEAT! :-)
Kurt S.
--- Marc Arseneault <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault"
> <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
>
> I was as surprised when I read the article just a
> couple of weeks ago.
>
> <EM>Best Regards,
>
> Marc Arseneault
> Ontario Canada
> </EM>----Original Message Follows---- From: "David
> Dawe" <DAVEDAWE@3WEB.NET>Reply-To:
> kitfox-list@matronics.com To:
> <KITFOX-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List:
> Re: Back on the list Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:26:21
> -0330 -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe"
> <DAVEDAWE@3WEB.NET>Marc 70% sounds high??? -----
> Original Message ----- From: "Marc Arseneault"
> <NORTHERNULTRALIGHTS@HOTMAIL.COM>To:
> <KITFOX-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List:
> Re: Back on the list -- Kitfox-List message posted
> by: "Marc Arseneault"
> <NORTHERNULTRALIGHTS@HOTMAIL.COM> <EM>Thanks Kurt!
> Canada is a very nice place to fly. 70% of our
> country is accessible only by air leaving us with
> some really nice country to explore and excellent
> fishing and hunting. Once I am licensed, I will send
> you some pictures of our country and of course some
> of fishing. As for the best
> stories from the North, Shane Sather who lives in
> Nunavut that owns a Lite Squared with a 912S
> probably has really good stories to tell us. The
> last time I talked to Shane, it was -45 C in Nunavut
> when we were at -15 Cin Sudbury. Our winters are
> cold but nothing compared to theirs. One of my
> dreams is tovisit Alaska
> Best Regards,
> Marc Arseneault Ontario Canada
> From: kurt schrader
> SMOKEY_BEAR_40220@YAHOO.COM>Reply-To:
> Re: Back on the list Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 01:53:51
> Welcome back
> Marc, Seems that Canada is a good place for
> KitFoxes. The two just seem to go together. Good
> planes for places of adventure and Canada has a lot
> to explore. Maybe we can get you to compete with
> Torgier and Michel, both of Norway, and our
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Model 3 with VW peformance |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>
Dear Allan
IMHO
I am glad you are satisfied with your power plant set up. The Jabiru is
better than the VW conversions for two main reasons. One, they started
with the VW but abandoned it and did their own crank and engine cases
with 5 main bearings that allowed a lighter crank. This is the main
reason the Jabiru 2200 is lighter than the VW 2200cc. engines. The other
is much better induction system allowing you to get the high ceilings.
On the flip side, a 2200 cc horizontally opposed engine is virtually the
same thing whether it says VW, JPX, or Jabiru and the owner has to run a
small prop to get horsepower and speed which gives them comparitively
poor take off performance. The Mk IV Avid cowl in 30 inches wide, and a
55 in. prop only gives you 7 1/2 inches of prop sticking out on either
side of the cowl. A properly set up Avid Speedwing would get acceptable
take off performance and do 120 mph with a 582 cc Rotax. A big factor is
usually the builder wants to get away from the 2 stroke engine, and
wants better economy and these are good reasons for are going with the
Jabiru.
John
Allan Aaron wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Allan Aaron" <aaaron@tvp.com.au>
>
>With respect, I disagree with your comments in relation to the Jabiru. I run my
Avid Speedwing with a Jabiru 2200 engine and a prince prop (55" dia). I get
1000 fpm climb and a reliable 115 mph cruise and have a service ceiling of about
12000 feet. I know a guy with an identical plane who outclimbs me and outruns
me with the Jabiru prop. Of course, maybe the Avid is just a better performing
plane than the kitfox:)
>Allan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John Larsen [mailto:jopatco@mindspring.com]
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Model 3 with VW peformance
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>
>
>Hi;
>I did a lot of research trying to make a Mosler work in an Avid. It was
>a 2185 cc. or big bore engine. The intake manifold was early kitchen
>sink design and the Posa carburetor was not up to the challenge. We gave
>up when on a hot summer day, the ceiling for the aircraft was 5500 feet.
>On any of these small direct drive engines like the Jabiru, you have to
>run at least 3300 rpm to get the stated horsepower and this means you
>are running something like a 62 inch prop. This works on a small sharp
>nosed plane like a KR or a Sonex, but not well on broad cowled planes
>like the Avid or Kitfox..
>John
>
>Bill Pleso wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bill Pleso" <bill77@cox.net>
>>
>>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Model 3 with VW peformance
>>
>>
>> Virtually all of the KR's are running VW (or corvair) engines with
>>cruise speed of 140 and UP and very impressive climb rates. It's odd that
>>the VW can perform so well in one type of plane yet fall on it's face in
>>another type (I know, it's apples and oranges). The Classic IV I purchase
>>was 10 years old and still unassembled. It came with a Mosler VW
>>conversion. Part of my brain says to use some other engine that has a
>>proven track record in a Kitfox, and another part considers this a
>>challenge. My wife says the best way to get me to do something is to say
>>"It can't be done". I've decided to pick up the gauntlet and see if I can
>>make the combo work. It sounds like there's only a couple of people out
>>there running VWs in their Kitfox. If there are others, it would be helpful
>>to hear what kind of problems they've had and how they addressed them.
>>Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 912S Starter Issue |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Len Shorethose" <TooLowTerrain@comcast.net>
Hello List,
I'm having issues with my 912S and need some opinions.
I recently had Lockwood install the new slipper clutch in the gearbox to
reduce the vibration problem that has plagued the 912S. They also replaced
the original starter with the new high torque model that Rotax recommends
for the slipper clutch equipped engines. My problem is that the new starter
is about 1/2 inch too long for my Series 5 firewall mount. In other words,
it just won't fit!
My options are either to replace the starter back with the original one, or
cut the engine mount and weld in a small extension that will allow clearance
for the starter.
I'm wondering if anyone has any experience using the old starter and the new
slipper clutch, or if anyone has actually cut an engine mount and done some
re-welding like I am suggesting.
Thanks for any responses.
Len Shorethose.....Series 5...912S
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bill Pleso" <bill77@cox.net>
Builders,
I wonder how much performace would be gained by using the smooth (and much
more streamlined) cowl that was used on the Lite Squared. From what I've read,
the same fuselage was used on both of these kits, so the cowl should fit. I've
contacted Skystar to see if the cowl is still available and how much it would
cost. This would be much easier than making my own cowl. I realize that
the round "bump" cowl gives the Mod IV a lot of it's charisma, but I kinda like
the looks of that smooth cowl and it seems like it should perform much better
from an aerodynamic standpoint.
Bill
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Back on the list |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" <davedawe@3web.net>
If you live in AB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Back on the list
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
>
> David
>
> I'm surprised it's not higher. Most of the roads and
> population are within a stones throw of the 49th parallel.
> Once you get past about 56 degrees north there aren't to
> many roads running east/west with only a few running north
> such as the Alaska Highway, Mackenzie highway and a couple
> more in Saskatchewan, Ontario and Quebec. The rest going
> north is nothing but moose pasture and diamond mines. (Three
> now in progress and many more test drilling) In spite of the
> lack of roads as Marc said the scenery is FANTASTIC
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Ted
> Edmonton, Ab
>
> -
> <<<<<March and David said>>>>>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe"
> <davedawe@3web.net>
>
> Marc 70% sounds high???
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marc Arseneault" <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Back on the list
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault"
> <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
> >
> >
> > <EM>Thanks Kurt! Canada is a very nice place to fly. 70%
> of our country is
> accessible only by air leaving us with some really nice
> country to explore
> and excellent fishing and hunting. Once I am licensed, I
> will send you some
> pictures of our country and of course some of fishing. As
> for the best
> stories from the North, Shane Sather who lives in Nunavut
> that owns a Lite
> Squared with a 912S probably has really good stories to tell
> us. The last
> time I talked to Shane, it was -45 C in Nunavut when we were
> at -15 Cin
> Sudbury. Our winters are cold but nothing compared to
> theirs. One of my
> dreams is tovisit Alaska!</EM>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Model 3 with VW peformance |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
For a Model 3, it's too heavy. Over 200#.
A Sonex builder with a lot of engine mod experience got one down to about 200#,
but it took a lot of modification.
bh
> Have you ever considered a Corvair. Im building one
> with plans in installing it in a Rans Coyote.
> Check out this link for more information:
> http://www.corvaircraft.com/
>
> Ed
Message 8
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| Subject: | 912S Starter Issue |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
Len,
You can remove the ears off the back of the starter. If you have the round
cowling it would be easiest to go back to the old starter. I have the older
starter in mine with the 912S and a slipper clutch.. seems to do just fine.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Len Shorethose
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912S Starter Issue
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Len Shorethose"
<TooLowTerrain@comcast.net>
Hello List,
I'm having issues with my 912S and need some opinions.
I recently had Lockwood install the new slipper clutch in the gearbox to
reduce the vibration problem that has plagued the 912S. They also replaced
the original starter with the new high torque model that Rotax recommends
for the slipper clutch equipped engines. My problem is that the new starter
is about 1/2 inch too long for my Series 5 firewall mount. In other words,
it just won't fit!
My options are either to replace the starter back with the original one, or
cut the engine mount and weld in a small extension that will allow clearance
for the starter.
I'm wondering if anyone has any experience using the old starter and the new
slipper clutch, or if anyone has actually cut an engine mount and done some
re-welding like I am suggesting.
Thanks for any responses.
Len Shorethose.....Series 5...912S
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
The smooth cowling will work on the IV. However, it does require a
different firewall.. or mods to your current one. There needs to be a boxed
in area in the top center of the firewall to allow room for the oil tank.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Pleso
Subject: Kitfox-List: VW performance
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bill Pleso" <bill77@cox.net>
Builders,
I wonder how much performace would be gained by using the smooth (and
much more streamlined) cowl that was used on the Lite Squared. From what
I've read, the same fuselage was used on both of these kits, so the cowl
should fit. I've contacted Skystar to see if the cowl is still available
and how much it would cost. This would be much easier than making my own
cowl. I realize that the round "bump" cowl gives the Mod IV a lot of it's
charisma, but I kinda like the looks of that smooth cowl and it seems like
it should perform much better from an aerodynamic standpoint.
Bill
Message 10
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| Subject: | Tri-Gear Nose Weights? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
Not sure why you would want to go with a steerable nose wheel..... Full
castoring seems to work just fine. Anyway.. The weights are going to be
very different between Tri-gear IV's and Series 5, 6 & 7's. Most the
Tri-gear Series 7's are going to 190 + lbs depending on engine and prop
combo's.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dcecil3@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Kitfox-List: Tri-Gear Nose Weights?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
From: Dcecil3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tri-Gear Nose Weights?
Sorry Hit the Enter key the first time lol.
Can any of the list users that have a Trigear Fox give me a nose weight of
your plane? I need empty weight as well as weight at gross.(Please include
the
Model of your plane and it's gross as well) . I'm in the process of
designing
a "Steerable" nose wheel for my Model 3 and I want to use a Gas Spring
,simular to the one on the Kitfox doors, only these are a lot heavier for
industrial
use and can be rated to 1,000 Lbs.I have one of these on my Challenger now
and they make a great Nose strut. Thanks in Advance for your help
Best
David Cecil
KF3#950
Sorry Hit the Enter=20key the first time lol.
Can any of the list users that have a Trigear Fox give me a nose weight of
your plane? I need empty weight as well as weight at gross.(Please include
the Model of your plane and it's gross as well) . I'm in the process of
designing a "Steerable" nose wheel for my Model 3 and I want to use a Gas
Spring ,simular to the one on the Kitfox doors, only these are a lot
heavier=20for industrial use and can be rated to 1,000 Lbs.I have one of
these on my Challenger now and they make a great Nose strut. Thanks in
Advance for=20your help
Best
David Cecil
KF3#950
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 912S Starter Issue |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Len Shorethose" <TooLowTerrain@comcast.net>
Hi John,
I ground off the ears and it still doesn't fit. I forgot to mention that in
my post. And yes, I do have the round cowl. I still need about 1/2 inch
more. I'm glad to hear that you are using the old starter with no
problems. Does the engine kick back at all any more with the slipper
clutch? That is Lockwood's concern when using the old starter. They
think that the sprague clutch will give out sooner rather than later if I
don't use the new starter. I'm not so sure I agree with them.
Thanks,
Len
----- Original Message -----
From: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 912S Starter Issue
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
>
> Len,
> You can remove the ears off the back of the starter. If you have
the round
> cowling it would be easiest to go back to the old starter. I have the
older
> starter in mine with the 912S and a slipper clutch.. seems to do just
fine.
>
> Blue Skies!!
> John & Debra McBean
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Len Shorethose
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912S Starter Issue
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Len Shorethose"
> <TooLowTerrain@comcast.net>
>
> Hello List,
>
> I'm having issues with my 912S and need some opinions.
>
> I recently had Lockwood install the new slipper clutch in the gearbox to
> reduce the vibration problem that has plagued the 912S. They also
replaced
> the original starter with the new high torque model that Rotax recommends
> for the slipper clutch equipped engines. My problem is that the new
starter
> is about 1/2 inch too long for my Series 5 firewall mount. In other
words,
> it just won't fit!
>
> My options are either to replace the starter back with the original one,
or
> cut the engine mount and weld in a small extension that will allow
clearance
> for the starter.
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has any experience using the old starter and the
new
> slipper clutch, or if anyone has actually cut an engine mount and done
some
> re-welding like I am suggesting.
>
> Thanks for any responses.
>
> Len Shorethose.....Series 5...912S
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | 912S Starter Issue |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
I haven't had any issues....
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Len Shorethose
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912S Starter Issue
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Len Shorethose"
<TooLowTerrain@comcast.net>
Hi John,
I ground off the ears and it still doesn't fit. I forgot to mention that in
my post. And yes, I do have the round cowl. I still need about 1/2 inch
more. I'm glad to hear that you are using the old starter with no
problems. Does the engine kick back at all any more with the slipper
clutch? That is Lockwood's concern when using the old starter. They
think that the sprague clutch will give out sooner rather than later if I
don't use the new starter. I'm not so sure I agree with them.
Thanks,
Len
----- Original Message -----
From: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 912S Starter Issue
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
>
> Len,
> You can remove the ears off the back of the starter. If you have
the round
> cowling it would be easiest to go back to the old starter. I have the
older
> starter in mine with the 912S and a slipper clutch.. seems to do just
fine.
>
> Blue Skies!!
> John & Debra McBean
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Len Shorethose
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912S Starter Issue
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Len Shorethose"
> <TooLowTerrain@comcast.net>
>
> Hello List,
>
> I'm having issues with my 912S and need some opinions.
>
> I recently had Lockwood install the new slipper clutch in the gearbox to
> reduce the vibration problem that has plagued the 912S. They also
replaced
> the original starter with the new high torque model that Rotax recommends
> for the slipper clutch equipped engines. My problem is that the new
starter
> is about 1/2 inch too long for my Series 5 firewall mount. In other
words,
> it just won't fit!
>
> My options are either to replace the starter back with the original one,
or
> cut the engine mount and weld in a small extension that will allow
clearance
> for the starter.
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has any experience using the old starter and the
new
> slipper clutch, or if anyone has actually cut an engine mount and done
some
> re-welding like I am suggesting.
>
> Thanks for any responses.
>
> Len Shorethose.....Series 5...912S
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Warpdrive props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeff Thomas" <jeffthomas@ntlworld.com>
Torgeir,
Thanks for that information I'll give Skydrive a ring.
Regards
Jeff
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Warpdrive props
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Try this one, also added a link to some vendors in GB.
>
> Skydrive:
> Burnside, Deppers Bridge, Leamington Spa
>
> Rotax engines, Ballistic chutes, Props, Instruments.
>
> Tel: 01926 612188
> (Fax 613781)
> e-mail: skydrive@avnet.co.uk
>
> Here is a link to the vendor list:
>
>
http://www.pfa.org.uk/pdf_docs/engineering/information_leaflets/list_of_suppliers.pdf
>
>
> Torgeir.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: EGT Cold Joint Calibration point (Westberg types). |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Forgot to answer this last "question".
........................................................................
> You know, you can buy two different types of "SAME" EGT indicator, they
> look the same and no visual difference. So, what's the difference?
>
> The difference is in the instrument's P/N., and this tell you about the
> calibration temperature, or better, the temperature where the instrument
> is "most" accurate.
>
> There is two calibration temperatures, one at 32 deg. F and the other at
> 70 deg. F. The one calibrated at 32 deg. F. is identified with a "S"
> after the P/N., and the 70 deg. F. version has the P/N. without this "S"
> index.
>
> The "S" version is said to be used for snowmobiles, the other one is for
> our use, -or is it?
>
> Here is a link to Westberg site stating this:
>
> http://www.frostalarm.com/cat/clone.html
>
> Now, here is the question; Why is it necessary to have two calibration
> point?
>
> Lots of us, esp. those living in the "inland", can have temperature's
> qualifying for the "S" model in the winter, -and the "origin" we are
> using in the summer, agree?
>
> Can't we have just one calibration point for all conditions?
.......................................................................
Now to the last question, about the two calibration points, 0 deg. C.
(or 32 deg. F) and 21.1 deg. C ( 70 deg. F).
The better one for us to use, is the 0 deg. C calibrated indicator. This
is simply due to the fact that all thermocouples give 0 volt at 0 deg.
C., isn't this convenient for us? At this point ( 0 deg. C) the
indicator is reading the correct EGT temperature and do not need any
correction.
This mean-, there is no error from the thermocouple at this reference
temperature (cold junction temperature), and it's just our indicator
that is calibrated for a "minor" error at this temp.
Also, -when the temperature start decreasing through the freezing point,
the output voltage from the thermocouple change it's polarity.
Therefore, below the freezing point the indicator start reading a to
high EGT temperature.
So, the more accurate system will be an indicator calibrated at 0 deg.
C., and to be connected to the indicator by using the preferred "cold
junction" setup.
To summarize; the "cold junction" error is created due to the different
type of "metals" used in the cold junction point vs. the hot point (our
EGT sensor).
Remember, the cold junction is two joints with three different type of
metals, one between iron-copper and the other between constantan-copper.
This two (thermocouple) joints is "supposed" to be equivalent to
iron-constantan, the EGT sensor.
Later on, I'll show how to make a "preferred" cold junction setup.
Torgeir.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Rotax 532 Starter |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" <davedawe@3web.net>
Anyone have experience working on the starter in a Rotax 532?
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: EGT Cold Joint Calibration point (Westberg types). |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Folks,
I've made an ERROR about the definition Westberg is using for the
calibration points they are using.
Here it's:
>So, remember; the calibration temperature, is the "cold junction"
>surrounding temperature that give the most accurate EGT temperature
>indicated-, but you most correct for the cold junction temperature.
For a "normal" system the above is true, but It's not - for the Westberg
70 deg. calibrated version.
When Westberg is talklking about CALIBRATION points, (32 and 70) deg.
F., this mean, they've MOVED the "cold junction point"! So, actually
they are using TWO DIFFERENT cold junction references.
Note:
If you make a test of your "Westberg 70 deg. F." calibrated indicator,
the reading will be 38 deg.F. higher than the values shown in the
"temperature/voltage tables" for iron/constantan thermocouples.
So, if you have the standard Westberg EGT indicator without a "S" index
after the type no., the correction will be:
True EGT temp= Ind.reading - (actual cold junction temp - cold
junction cal. temp.)
If we put in the numbers, say indicated 1200 deg. F., actual cold
junction temp (= cockpit temp.) is 30 deg. F., and finally our cold
junction cal. temp. = 70 deg. F.
We have:
True EGT temp.= (1200 - (30 - 70)) deg. F.= (1200 + 40) deg. F = 1240
deg. F.
So, the correct formula for calculating "true EGT" is:
True EGT temp.= Indicator reading - ( cockpit temp. - 70 deg. F.)
Well, sorry for the error.
Regards
Torgeir.
Message 17
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tc9008@aol.com
I have a 97 582 rotax engine . My battery ran down and I put a six amp
charger on it and the engine immediately cranked. It was on for about three
minutes. I could hear something in the system humming. It was not the charger.
I hope
I didn't hurt anything. I have not had any proble since. The noise bothered
me so I figured you guys could shed some light on that noise.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 Starter |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Dave,
I've a model II, with a 532 installed. This starter is similar to the
one used in the 582, I'll think.
What's the problem?
Torgeir.
David Dawe wrote:
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" <davedawe@3web.net>
>
> Anyone have experience working on the starter in a Rotax 532?
>
> >
> >
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: VW performance |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Hi Bill:
This is a really good question. While it would make sense that the smooth
cowl is less draggy, I'd be surprised if anyone could provide proof of any
significant cruise speed increase by switching cowls. If there is an
increase I would suspect it would come from the ability to generate more
thrust by running a longer prop, due to moving the thrust line higher on the
smooth cowled version.
Anyone out there ever do this experiment?
Paul Seehafer
Central Wisconsin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Pleso" <bill77@cox.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: VW performance
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bill Pleso" <bill77@cox.net>
>
> Builders,
> I wonder how much performace would be gained by using the smooth (and
much more streamlined) cowl that was used on the Lite Squared. From what
I've read, the same fuselage was used on both of these kits, so the cowl
should fit. I've contacted Skystar to see if the cowl is still available
and how much it would cost. This would be much easier than making my own
cowl. I realize that the round "bump" cowl gives the Mod IV a lot of it's
charisma, but I kinda like the looks of that smooth cowl and it seems like
it should perform much better from an aerodynamic standpoint.
> Bill
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Model 3 with VW peformance |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Thanks for all the info guys. I will forward your comments to my friend
that needs to know all about the VW in a Fox.
Paul Seehafer
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Battery |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Normally, such a sound is related to the charger, the iron plates inside
the transformer. In US., such humming is produced by the mains (2*60 120 Hz). If
you've just connected the charger, without switching the
master to on during charge, there should not be any problem. Also,
sometimes the battery itself can make some noise during "high" charging.
So, if the master switch was off during charging, there should
"normally" be no problem.
Torgeir.
Tc9008@aol.com wrote:
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tc9008@aol.com
>
> I have a 97 582 rotax engine . My battery ran down and I put a six amp
> charger on it and the engine immediately cranked. It was on for about three
> minutes. I could hear something in the system humming. It was not the charger.
I hope
> I didn't hurt anything. I have not had any proble since. The noise bothered
> me so I figured you guys could shed some light on that noise.
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Knight Upholstery for Kitfox E:\EUDORA\OUTGOING\OUTGOING\KIT... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tc9008@aol.com
I have a 1997 Model IV Kitfox. Do you have a cover for the plane that I could
use for trailering or storage in my garage or hanger ?
Message 23
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| Subject: | Model 2 with Geo Metro engine |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve M" <ondeck355@hotmail.com>
>From: John Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>
>I have been wanting to ask someone bout the GEO metro engine. How does
>the GEO in your Model 2 work and how does it compare with a 582 powered
>plane?
>Thanks.
I haven't flown a 582-powered Kitfox, or any other besides my own
Geo-powered one, so I can't make much of a comparison. The Geo engine is a
1-liter, three-cylinder, four-stroke watercooled engine made by Suzuki. Mine
has the Raven reduction drive, which seems solid enough, though a few points
are a little hard to work on (show me any experimental plane or engine where
that isn't true). These engines are available with turbochargers (mine
doesn't have one), and a four-cylinder engine is also available.
The Geo-powered Kitfox has about 55 HP, and turns a 62" three-blade IVOprop
tractor prop. Climb rate aff the deck (500 MSL) is around 500 fpm at gross
weight of 950#, and absolute ceiling seems to be just over 10,000 feet on a
moderately cool autumn day. Mine cruises at 60-65 MPH indicated at 4600
engine RPM (the engine has a Rave belt-drive reduction setup with a 2.26:1
ratio). Not very fast, but the plane still has the round struts and giant
tundra tires without pants. It could use some more power. But I don't know
what engine to put in it that would produce more without going to a
two-stroke, or burdening the plane even more with a (heavier) four-stroke.
On the good side, the engine burns about 2.6 gallons per hour, and runs like
a watch. The throttle-body injection is incredible. With two 13-gallon tanks
in the wings the plane can literally stay up all day. I had my share of
new-plane glitches, but they're pretty much ironed out now, and the plane is
very nice to fly. Trim tabs are next, and maybe a GPS with a bigger screen.
Steve Maher
Kitfox Model 2, Geo Metro engine
San Diego, CA
Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free!
Message 24
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| Subject: | Trying to find 3-View Drawings of a Kitfox 5 Outback |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jeff Smathers <jsmathers@cybcon.com>
Hi All,
I am trying to find a 3-view drawing .jpg , .pdf , or ? of my KF 5 Outback
with
the round bump cowl. Even Skystar didn't find one in their archives. I want to
give the FAA inspector next week for sign off.
I know I saw one at one time with dimensions......hmmmmmm....
Any one? Thanks.
Jeff Smathers
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Model 2 with Geo Metro engine |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Steve,
Thanks - This is a keeper. Good factual info.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve M" <ondeck355@hotmail.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Model 2 with Geo Metro engine
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve M" <ondeck355@hotmail.com>
>
> >From: John Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>
> >I have been wanting to ask someone bout the GEO metro engine. How does
> >the GEO in your Model 2 work and how does it compare with a 582 powered
> >plane?
> >Thanks.
>
> I haven't flown a 582-powered Kitfox, or any other besides my own
> Geo-powered one, so I can't make much of a comparison. The Geo engine is a
> 1-liter, three-cylinder, four-stroke watercooled engine made by Suzuki.
Mine
> has the Raven reduction drive, which seems solid enough, though a few
points
> are a little hard to work on (show me any experimental plane or engine
where
> that isn't true). These engines are available with turbochargers (mine
> doesn't have one), and a four-cylinder engine is also available.
>
> The Geo-powered Kitfox has about 55 HP, and turns a 62" three-blade
IVOprop
> tractor prop. Climb rate aff the deck (500 MSL) is around 500 fpm at gross
> weight of 950#, and absolute ceiling seems to be just over 10,000 feet on
a
> moderately cool autumn day. Mine cruises at 60-65 MPH indicated at 4600
> engine RPM (the engine has a Rave belt-drive reduction setup with a 2.26:1
> ratio). Not very fast, but the plane still has the round struts and giant
> tundra tires without pants. It could use some more power. But I don't know
> what engine to put in it that would produce more without going to a
> two-stroke, or burdening the plane even more with a (heavier) four-stroke.
>
> On the good side, the engine burns about 2.6 gallons per hour, and runs
like
> a watch. The throttle-body injection is incredible. With two 13-gallon
tanks
> in the wings the plane can literally stay up all day. I had my share of
> new-plane glitches, but they're pretty much ironed out now, and the plane
is
> very nice to fly. Trim tabs are next, and maybe a GPS with a bigger
screen.
>
> Steve Maher
> Kitfox Model 2, Geo Metro engine
> San Diego, CA
>
> Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free!
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 532 Starter |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" <aerocon1@telusplanet.net>
Dave,
I'm a certified Rotax Tech.... what's the problem with your starter?
Bob Robertson
Light Engine Services Ltd.
Rotax Service Center
St. Albert, Ab. CaN.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dawe" <davedawe@3web.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 532 Starter
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" <davedawe@3web.net>
>
> Anyone have experience working on the starter in a Rotax 532?
>
> >
> >
>
>
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