Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:05 AM - Re: Shipping crates for kitfox 5/6/7 - ideas ? (Phil Cowley)
2. 04:59 AM - Re: Re: Shipping crates for kitfox 5/6/7 - ideas ? (Dee Young)
3. 06:29 AM - Classic V Project (Tom Holden)
4. 07:07 AM - Re: Classic V Project (michel)
5. 02:57 PM - Spam, from where? (Torgeir Mortensen)
6. 03:26 PM - Re: Spam, from where? (kurt schrader)
7. 03:26 PM - Re: IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison - Captain Zoom (Paul Seehafer)
8. 03:47 PM - GEL batteries. (Torgeir Mortensen)
9. 03:50 PM - Re: Spam, from where? (Ted Palamarek)
10. 03:58 PM - Re: GEL batteries. (Ted Palamarek)
11. 04:30 PM - Re: Spam, from where? (Bill Pleso)
12. 04:42 PM - Re: Spam, from where? (Scott McClintock)
13. 05:58 PM - Re: Spam, from where? (Floran Higgins)
14. 06:00 PM - Re: GEL batteries. (Jeff Hays)
15. 07:07 PM - IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison - Continued (Jeff Hays)
16. 08:34 PM - Re: Spam, from where? (Lowell Fitt)
17. 08:50 PM - Re: Spam, from where? (Rupert Tinker)
18. 09:15 PM - Re: Spam, from where? (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
19. 09:16 PM - Re: IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison - Continued (JMCBEAN)
20. 09:17 PM - Re: Spam, from where? (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
21. 09:53 PM - Re: IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison - Continued (JMCBEAN)
22. 09:53 PM - Re: IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison - Continued (Jeff Hays)
23. 10:20 PM - Re: IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison - Continued (JMCBEAN)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping crates for kitfox 5/6/7 - ideas ? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Phil Cowley" <pcowley@virtualrcflight.com>
Hey All,
I am about to embark on a 6000 mile cross country (both ways) trip from
San Francisco California, to long island New York & back.
I will be trailing my new project, a ~75% complete kitfox 5 safari
(taildragger) from New York back to California.(just being prepared to
cover, no engine or electronics) on an 18' open trailer.
I am wondering if anyone has just received delivery of a kitfox kit and
is contemplating what to do with the giant box that is now taking up
precious building space :)
I would be more than happy to work a deal with anyone who is no longer
in need of such a crate.
I will be picking the project up around March 20th, and will be crossing
the country in the 4 days preceding this date.
Another thought, does anyone have pictures or drawings of what the
crating looks like so I can build a similar fixture to protect the
airplane from the weather & elements along the way back ?.
Happy flying !
Phil Cowley
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping crates for kitfox 5/6/7 - ideas ? |
Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 05:58:02 -0800
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Phil, you may consider using an enclosed trailer. They seem to be well suited for
this type of thing. I moved a Model II from LA to Idaho - about 1,000 miles
this way. You don't have to wonder if you lost something along the way.
Dee Young
Model II
----- Original Message -----
From: Phil Cowley<mailto:pcowley@virtualrcflight.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 12:04 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Shipping crates for kitfox 5/6/7 - ideas ?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Phil Cowley" <pcowley@virtualrcflight.com<mailto:pcowley@virtualrcflight.com>>
Hey All,
I am about to embark on a 6000 mile cross country (both ways) trip from
San Francisco California, to long island New York & back.
I will be trailing my new project, a ~75% complete kitfox 5 safari
(taildragger) from New York back to California.(just being prepared to
cover, no engine or electronics) on an 18' open trailer.
I am wondering if anyone has just received delivery of a kitfox kit and
is contemplating what to do with the giant box that is now taking up
precious building space :)
I would be more than happy to work a deal with anyone who is no longer
in need of such a crate.
I will be picking the project up around March 20th, and will be crossing
the country in the 4 days preceding this date.
Another thought, does anyone have pictures or drawings of what the
crating looks like so I can build a similar fixture to protect the
airplane from the weather & elements along the way back ?.
Happy flying !
Phil Cowley
Message 3
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| Subject: | Classic V Project |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Holden <tholden42@earthlink.net>
I've been away from this list for a while raising twins. After much soul searching,
I've decided that my KitFox project doesn't fit into my new lifestyle and
have reluctantly decided to sell it. (Since it only holds 2 people, how could
I decide who to take flying with me.)
If anyone is interested or knows someone who is interested, I am fairly close to where Sun'N Fun is held. I've listed it sportfilght.com. You can also see picures of my project at http://home.earthlink.net/~tholden42/
Have a wonderful day,
Tom Holden
tholden42@earthlink.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Classic V Project |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>===== Original Message From Tom Holden <tholden42@earthlink.net>
>I've been away from this list for a while raising twins.
Hello Tom,
You don't know me and I don't know you. Two ships passing in the night. But
let me tell you that you made the right decision. Use this wonderful time to
raise your twins, it will too soon be gone by. And the day they leave to make
their own life, you will still have PLENTY of time to enjoy aviation. Who
knows, the twins might become very interested too and then you will enjoy what
I am today: A happy dad flying with his beloved son.
Have a wonderful day too, Tom!
Michel
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Spam, from where? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Folks,
Just a thought, after joining this new list, I've for the first time got
spam in my mail box. I'll never received spam ever before in the priv.
mail box. The strange thing is that, this started a few days after we
joined this new list. I'm just wondered that, is it possible that
someone "grab" our adresses, as the can be collected by anyone, and just
sell them to "adverticers"?
Any others out there with this exp.??
Do not archive
Torgeir.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Spam, from where? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Torgier,
No I haven't had any change in junk mail since
changing lists, but today I got a notice that an
e-mail I didn't send, had a virus in it that I don't
have. I just did a virus scan again to be sure.
It does seem that someone got my address to send this
bogus scare to me. The sender is listed as
<"Nike Virusscan" <mailscan@nike.com>
I occasionally get e-mail notices that I "must do a
Microsoft update" and it has an attachment. This is a
virus or trojan tactic to get you to download the bad
file.
Sometimes the culprit has their computer scan a
particular server and latches on to whomever passes by
and contacts that server. There is also supposed to
be a way to gather addresses from computers as they
sign on to the internet. There are a lot of ways for
your e-mail address to be found and used.
So far this list is not any worse for me than before.
Kurt S.
--- Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen
> <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
> Just a thought, after joining this new list, I've
> for the first time got
> spam in my mail box. I'll never received spam ever
> before in the priv.
> mail box. The strange thing is that, this started a
> few days after we
> joined this new list. I'm just wondered that, is it
> possible that
> someone "grab" our adresses, as the can be collected
> by anyone, and just
> sell them to "adverticers"?
>
> Any others out there with this exp.??
>
> Do not archive
>
> Torgeir.
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison - Captain Zoom |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Jeff:
I kind of like the IO-240 myself because it is definitely easier to find
someone to repair it locally verses a Rotax 914. Plus, it is a much simpler
engine and offers more horsepower. So, I can understand people wanting to
use the IO-240. But in my case, I have an addiction to water flying, and
have been totally spoiled by having flown an amphib for the last 10 years.
But unfortunately, adding the weight and drag of amphibious floats is
probably the ultimate test of an aircrafts ability. So, in the interest of
useful load and overall empty weight (plus horsepower per pound) I find the
912s or 914 to be the only real option, unless you want to exceed
recommended gross weight limits. Which I'd prefer not to do unless I
absolutely would have to.
If I never felt the need for an amphib (or even a straight float plane),
deciding between the Rotax and the Continental would be really tough. They
are both great engines. We're lucky to have such good choices.
Homebuilders 25 years ago weren't so fortunate.
I'm still plugging away at my Model IV/1200 with an 80 hp 912ul that is
going on Aerocet amphibs. It will make a marginal amphib at best. But
being a Kitfox, I know it will still be loads of fun!
Too bad about the flaming problem. I didn't read anything into your post
that offended me. Personally I enjoy a different point of view. It helps
me to learn. So keep posting and we can all enjoy what we've all learned
from our own experiences as well as what we've learned from others. Like a
friend of mine likes to say, "That's what makes for good horse racing..."
Paul
Central Wisconsin
>
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Folks,
At the moment I'm working on a project using GEL batteries from
Sonnenschein, the one made in Germany. In this project I'm using the
A512/16 G5. This battery "can" be discharged (approx) 200 Amp. cont.,
and not more than 5 seconds up to 700 Amps! How about that? In fact,
this battery match a (with same cap.) NiCad. pretty much.
This battery might be a perfect match for a Kitfox-, or alike. For the
best life length, this battery need a three step charger as the charging
voltage is to be adjusted according to the temperature. Some just run
this battery with a standard charger, if you'll plan to do-, make sure
that the max. Charging voltage is according to Sonnenschein specs.
There is just one other brand that's also a "real" GEL battery, this
is the Deka Gel-Tech in US.
You'll find lot's of info at the links below.
The weight is 6.8 Kg eq. to 15 LB, the size; (181 X 76 X 167) mm. or
(7.126 X 2.953 X 6.575)"
I'll know this kind of battery is not easy to get in US., but here is
some link about this battery:
Here you'll find all you need to know about the handling, charging and
where to get such a battery.
http://www.sonnenschein.org/A500.htm
Also, here is the article Bob Nuckolls wrote about using RG and GEL :
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battery.pdf
And here is another from Bob about RG batteries:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rg_bat.html
Regards
Torgeir.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Spam, from where? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
Torgeir
I haven't seen any increase since we went to Matronics. The
spammers have some pretty ingenious ways of getting hold of
your e-mail address. I noticed I got a lot of spam when
someone ran a sequential series of letters starting with
temc then temca then temcb etc till they finally click on
you e-mail by a process of elimination. Those spammers are
the low life's on this earth.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Ted P
Edmonton, Ab
<<<<SNIP>>>>
Hi Folks,
Just a thought, after joining this new list, I've for the
first time got
spam in my mail box. I'll never received spam ever before in
the priv.
mail box. The strange thing is that, this started a few days
after we
joined this new list. I'm just wondered that, is it possible
that
someone "grab" our adresses, as the can be collected by
anyone, and just
sell them to "adverticers"?
Any others out there with this exp.??
Do not archive
Torgeir.
==============
Contributions
other
==============
==============
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list
==============
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" <temco@telusplanet.net>
Torgeir
We use a lot of those batteries in electronic installations
as keep alives in the event of a power failure until the
emergency power plant comes on. They are available from
Active Electronic Components in Canada and I believe that
Active is also in the USA.
Good Batteries
Do NOT ARCHIVE
Ted P.
Edmonton, Ab
<<<<SNIP>>>>
Hi Folks,
At the moment I'm working on a project using GEL batteries
from
Sonnenschein, the one made in Germany. In this project I'm
using the
A512/16 G5. This battery "can" be discharged (approx) 200
Amp. cont.,
and not more than 5 seconds up to 700 Amps! How about that?
In fact,
this battery match a (with same cap.) NiCad. pretty much.
This battery might be a perfect match for a Kitfox-, or
alike. For the
best life length, this battery need a three step charger as
the charging
voltage is to be adjusted according to the temperature.
Some just run
this battery with a standard charger, if you'll plan to do-,
make sure
that the max. Charging voltage is according to Sonnenschein
specs.
There is just one other brand that's also a "real" GEL
battery, this
is the Deka Gel-Tech in US.
You'll find lot's of info at the links below.
The weight is 6.8 Kg eq. to 15 LB, the size; (181 X 76 X
167) mm. or
(7.126 X 2.953 X 6.575)"
I'll know this kind of battery is not easy to get in US.,
but here is
some link about this battery:
Here you'll find all you need to know about the handling,
charging and
where to get such a battery.
http://www.sonnenschein.org/A500.htm
Also, here is the article Bob Nuckolls wrote about using RG
and GEL :
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battery.pdf
And here is another from Bob about RG batteries:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rg_bat.html
Regards
Torgeir.
==============
Contributions
other
==============
==============
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list
==============
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Spam, from where? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bill Pleso" <bill77@cox.net>
> Any others out there with this exp.??
I never had ANY spam AT ALL until 2-3 days after I joined the list. Now I
get 10-20 per day. Mostly about internet pharmacies, on-line mortgage
brokers and companies wanting to make certain parts of me larger. I chalked
it up to coincidence. Maybe not.
Bill
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Spam, from where? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
Yes, Torgeir my spam "runneth over"
As a matter of fact, I may have to get off list as my State of AK. e-mail
server administrator tells me he is scanning and deleting way too much!! This
is not a good thing.
Scott in Nome
Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Just a thought, after joining this new list, I've for the first time got
> spam in my mail box. I'll never received spam ever before in the priv.
> mail box. The strange thing is that, this started a few days after we
> joined this new list. I'm just wondered that, is it possible that
> someone "grab" our adresses, as the can be collected by anyone, and just
> sell them to "adverticers"?
>
> Any others out there with this exp.??
>
> Do not archive
>
> Torgeir.
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Spam, from where? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
I have been receiving spam for the past several days.
Floran
----- Original Message -----
From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spam, from where?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
> Just a thought, after joining this new list, I've for the first time got
> spam in my mail box. I'll never received spam ever before in the priv.
> mail box. The strange thing is that, this started a few days after we
> joined this new list. I'm just wondered that, is it possible that
> someone "grab" our adresses, as the can be collected by anyone, and just
> sell them to "adverticers"?
>
> Any others out there with this exp.??
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> Torgeir.
>
>
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeff Hays" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Hi Torgeir -
I read about a dry cell battery manufactured by Hawker recently
and switched to their PC-680 it cranks my IO-240 about twice as
fast as the B&C it replaced, weighs 10 lb.s less, and can be
deep cycled as well.
Take a look at http://www.odysseyfactory.com/
Plus it cost me only $69 US
Regards,
Jeff Hays
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Torgeir
Mortensen
Subject: Kitfox-List: GEL batteries.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Folks,
At the moment I'm working on a project using GEL batteries from
Sonnenschein, the one made in Germany. In this project I'm using the
A512/16 G5. This battery "can" be discharged (approx) 200 Amp. cont.,
and not more than 5 seconds up to 700 Amps! How about that? In fact,
this battery match a (with same cap.) NiCad. pretty much.
This battery might be a perfect match for a Kitfox-, or alike. For the
best life length, this battery need a three step charger as the charging
voltage is to be adjusted according to the temperature. Some just run
this battery with a standard charger, if you'll plan to do-, make sure
that the max. Charging voltage is according to Sonnenschein specs.
There is just one other brand that's also a "real" GEL battery, this
is the Deka Gel-Tech in US.
You'll find lot's of info at the links below.
The weight is 6.8 Kg eq. to 15 LB, the size; (181 X 76 X 167) mm. or
(7.126 X 2.953 X 6.575)"
I'll know this kind of battery is not easy to get in US., but here is
some link about this battery:
Here you'll find all you need to know about the handling, charging and
where to get such a battery.
http://www.sonnenschein.org/A500.htm
Also, here is the article Bob Nuckolls wrote about using RG and GEL :
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/battery.pdf
And here is another from Bob about RG batteries:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/rg_bat.html
Regards
Torgeir.
Message 15
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| Subject: | IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison - Continued |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeff Hays" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
I agree with you on the 914 for weight, also the 912 is a good
engine as well. But when you really shake them out, the IO-240B
has twice the TBO of either of those engines. It is a well
built engine.
The biggest negative I can see with the IO-240B is cost, they
are simply very expensive now. When I bought mine it was about
$16K from TCM brand new, now it's much higher. (with the
exception of Mattituck, who's making an experimental version
for aroung $16K).
If I were building one today, it is quite possible I would pick
a 914. I have also thought about an O-200 for Hotrodding
potential, since there's a lot of high performance O-200
parts out there.
About the flaming, who cares. I have a website, which a lot of
builders look at. I'll just make a "psychosis of so-and-so page
and post all the email, and my real opinions there". That's off
the list, and my personal domain where I can say what I want
about anything. :) Simple things amuse me ...
I actually thought about writing an article called "Sleeping
with the Factory", sort of a look at the dark side of the
airshow business, and the seduction of buyers with the selling
of dreams, and the builder's who's planes are always featured
at the tents, and at the dinners, etc. But to do that, would
certainly make a lot of enemies. (actually this opinion probably
just did as well).
What get's me about this list, some times is that you would think
builders would use it as a forum, to share common complaints,
and problems, and to provide some feedback about this product
that we've all shovelled out a lot of cash for. But rather, if
you express, anything other than "uplifting" good news, or
"cheerfully given" advice. Then you get flamed, or worse
threatened with being kicked off the list.
I know a few builder's who don't post to this list for exactly
this reason, and they're people with knowledge, and opinions that
are worth hearing.
Well anyway, that's just some opinions I happen to have.
Cheers,
Jeff
Kitfox N85AE IO-240B http://www.aselia.com/jshays/outback.htm
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul
Seehafer
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison -
Captain Zoom
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Jeff:
I kind of like the IO-240 myself because it is definitely easier to find
someone to repair it locally verses a Rotax 914. Plus, it is a much simpler
engine and offers more horsepower. So, I can understand people wanting to
use the IO-240. But in my case, I have an addiction to water flying, and
have been totally spoiled by having flown an amphib for the last 10 years.
But unfortunately, adding the weight and drag of amphibious floats is
probably the ultimate test of an aircrafts ability. So, in the interest of
useful load and overall empty weight (plus horsepower per pound) I find the
912s or 914 to be the only real option, unless you want to exceed
recommended gross weight limits. Which I'd prefer not to do unless I
absolutely would have to.
If I never felt the need for an amphib (or even a straight float plane),
deciding between the Rotax and the Continental would be really tough. They
are both great engines. We're lucky to have such good choices.
Homebuilders 25 years ago weren't so fortunate.
I'm still plugging away at my Model IV/1200 with an 80 hp 912ul that is
going on Aerocet amphibs. It will make a marginal amphib at best. But
being a Kitfox, I know it will still be loads of fun!
Too bad about the flaming problem. I didn't read anything into your post
that offended me. Personally I enjoy a different point of view. It helps
me to learn. So keep posting and we can all enjoy what we've all learned
from our own experiences as well as what we've learned from others. Like a
friend of mine likes to say, "That's what makes for good horse racing..."
Paul
Central Wisconsin
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Spam, from where? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Torgeir, My ISP provides a spam filter and I get a note about twice a week
saying I have a bin full. Most of this activity has come since the new list
started - I think.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spam, from where?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
> Just a thought, after joining this new list, I've for the first time got
> spam in my mail box. I'll never received spam ever before in the priv.
> mail box. The strange thing is that, this started a few days after we
> joined this new list. I'm just wondered that, is it possible that
> someone "grab" our adresses, as the can be collected by anyone, and just
> sell them to "adverticers"?
>
> Any others out there with this exp.??
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> Torgeir.
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Spam, from where? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rupert Tinker" <rutinker@saber.net>
Have never received any spam.
Rupert Tinker, kitfox II, Paradise, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Torgeir Mortensen" <torgemor@online.no>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Spam, from where?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
> Just a thought, after joining this new list, I've for the first time got
> spam in my mail box. I'll never received spam ever before in the priv.
> mail box. The strange thing is that, this started a few days after we
> joined this new list. I'm just wondered that, is it possible that
> someone "grab" our adresses, as the can be collected by anyone, and just
> sell them to "adverticers"?
>
> Any others out there with this exp.??
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> Torgeir.
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Spam, from where? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
A couple spam messages~~You men should feel lucky, I get well over 100 spam
messages per day. It has gotten worse over the last couple years.
I have had the same main screen name and business accounts for nearly 10
years so it has been out there in the public for quite a while. Thankfully my
spam filters get about 99% of them. It took me a while to get the filters set
correctly, but now works excellent. I have 7 different screen names, only 3 are
"public" other ones are strictly limited to who knows them. I turn every one
that is in my spam list over to the spam control which my server takes away
their privileges.
I changed one screen name a few weeks ago to a totally "means & spells
nothing" address, can you believe by evening I had several Spams on it, Nothing
was
ever sent from that address! I know it is the computerized spammers that send
out millions of spam messages per day that do most of it, as they found a new
address that had never even been used in less than 12 hours!
Do a web search for your name and you will see where the spammers get your
name/e-mail address. You will be amazed!
Get a good spam filter and keep updating it!
It is a pain allright, but along with the instant communications to all over
the world, it is the negative the internet age has brought about.
Elbie
Message 19
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| Subject: | IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison - Continued |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
When did the IO-240 increase to a 3000 hour TBO ?? I believe it was 2000.
912UL/S is 1500 and the 914 is 1200.
Don't kid yourself.... The IO-240 is in the 23K range from TCM but so is the
bloody 914 these days. However, if you are going to go to altitude or high
density it's going to be very tough to beat the 914. The O-200 is an
option.. but the hotrodding your referring to limits the longevity.....
Why not the O-235.. Great engine.. of course we could get into the age old
argument of Lyc over Cont... I'll take the Lyc anytime.
For the Kitfox and bang for the buck.. really hard to beat the 912S. I have
had the pleasure of flying behind all of these power plants.. There are pros
and cons for all of them and the opinions will obviously be different for
different reasons.. most from personal experiences. I chose the 912S.. for a
variety of reasons.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail..
but, a true friend will be sitting in the cell next to you saying,
"Damn...that was fun!"
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Spam, from where? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
I chalked
it up to coincidence. Maybe not.
Anything you post on the internet can be located, do a search for your name
on the internet~~
Message 21
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| Subject: | IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison - Continued |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
I have been trying to keep quiet but.......
About the flaming, who cares....
What good does a personal attack do for anyone ???
I actually thought about writing an article called "Sleeping
with the Factory", sort of a look at the dark side of the
airshow business.....
This could be an interesting article.... Would this be from personal
experience ?? and from multiple perspectives from different manufactures and
there customers ?? or just a personal opinion ?? Would it involve the
certifieds as well as the experimentals ?? Do you have first hand knowledge
of the airshow business ??
What get's me about this list, some times is that you would think
builders would use it as a forum, to share common complaints,
and problems, and to provide some feedback about this product
that we've all shovelled out a lot of cash for. But rather, if
you express, anything other than "uplifting" good news, or
"cheerfully given" advice. Then you get flamed, or worse
threatened with being kicked off the list.
I don't think that is a true statement... If what is given is factual and
helpful in regards to the building of or operating of I don't feel anyone
has a problem with that.
I know a few builder's who don't post to this list for exactly
this reason, and they're people with knowledge, and opinions that
are worth hearing.
Do they not post because they have nothing positive to offer.... opinions
are like noses.. everybody has one.
Just my opinion........
Blue Skies!!
John McBean
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail..
but, a true friend will be sitting in the cell next to you saying,
"Damn...that was fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Hays
Subject: Kitfox-List: IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison - Continued
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeff Hays" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
I agree with you on the 914 for weight, also the 912 is a good
engine as well. But when you really shake them out, the IO-240B
has twice the TBO of either of those engines. It is a well
built engine.
The biggest negative I can see with the IO-240B is cost, they
are simply very expensive now. When I bought mine it was about
$16K from TCM brand new, now it's much higher. (with the
exception of Mattituck, who's making an experimental version
for aroung $16K).
If I were building one today, it is quite possible I would pick
a 914. I have also thought about an O-200 for Hotrodding
potential, since there's a lot of high performance O-200
parts out there.
About the flaming, who cares. I have a website, which a lot of
builders look at. I'll just make a "psychosis of so-and-so page
and post all the email, and my real opinions there". That's off
the list, and my personal domain where I can say what I want
about anything. :) Simple things amuse me ...
I actually thought about writing an article called "Sleeping
with the Factory", sort of a look at the dark side of the
airshow business, and the seduction of buyers with the selling
of dreams, and the builder's who's planes are always featured
at the tents, and at the dinners, etc. But to do that, would
certainly make a lot of enemies. (actually this opinion probably
just did as well).
What get's me about this list, some times is that you would think
builders would use it as a forum, to share common complaints,
and problems, and to provide some feedback about this product
that we've all shovelled out a lot of cash for. But rather, if
you express, anything other than "uplifting" good news, or
"cheerfully given" advice. Then you get flamed, or worse
threatened with being kicked off the list.
I know a few builder's who don't post to this list for exactly
this reason, and they're people with knowledge, and opinions that
are worth hearing.
Well anyway, that's just some opinions I happen to have.
Cheers,
Jeff
Kitfox N85AE IO-240B http://www.aselia.com/jshays/outback.htm
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul
Seehafer
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison -
Captain Zoom
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Jeff:
I kind of like the IO-240 myself because it is definitely easier to find
someone to repair it locally verses a Rotax 914. Plus, it is a much simpler
engine and offers more horsepower. So, I can understand people wanting to
use the IO-240. But in my case, I have an addiction to water flying, and
have been totally spoiled by having flown an amphib for the last 10 years.
But unfortunately, adding the weight and drag of amphibious floats is
probably the ultimate test of an aircrafts ability. So, in the interest of
useful load and overall empty weight (plus horsepower per pound) I find the
912s or 914 to be the only real option, unless you want to exceed
recommended gross weight limits. Which I'd prefer not to do unless I
absolutely would have to.
If I never felt the need for an amphib (or even a straight float plane),
deciding between the Rotax and the Continental would be really tough. They
are both great engines. We're lucky to have such good choices.
Homebuilders 25 years ago weren't so fortunate.
I'm still plugging away at my Model IV/1200 with an 80 hp 912ul that is
going on Aerocet amphibs. It will make a marginal amphib at best. But
being a Kitfox, I know it will still be loads of fun!
Too bad about the flaming problem. I didn't read anything into your post
that offended me. Personally I enjoy a different point of view. It helps
me to learn. So keep posting and we can all enjoy what we've all learned
from our own experiences as well as what we've learned from others. Like a
friend of mine likes to say, "That's what makes for good horse racing..."
Paul
Central Wisconsin
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison - Continued |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeff Hays" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Actually the IO-240B last I checked was 2400 TBO (I may be wrong).
Mattituck sells the IO-240B for around $16K, there's at least two
builders on the list who have or are in the process of going that
route. I bought mine through Skystar/TCM a few years ago for the
same price.
Actually every single engine mentioned are good engines. I have to
date 100 hours in mine with an IO-240B, I think you'd be hard
pressed to find somebody who's happier with their engine choice
than I am. I LOVE my IO-240B :)
Why did Diamond drop the Rotax 912 for the IO-240B?
The 0-200 can make a lot of power, for little money, and is
still reliable providing you don't run it to death. That's why
a lot of people do it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JMCBEAN
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison -
Continued
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
When did the IO-240 increase to a 3000 hour TBO ?? I believe it was 2000.
912UL/S is 1500 and the 914 is 1200.
Don't kid yourself.... The IO-240 is in the 23K range from TCM but so is the
bloody 914 these days. However, if you are going to go to altitude or high
density it's going to be very tough to beat the 914. The O-200 is an
option.. but the hotrodding your referring to limits the longevity.....
Why not the O-235.. Great engine.. of course we could get into the age old
argument of Lyc over Cont... I'll take the Lyc anytime.
For the Kitfox and bang for the buck.. really hard to beat the 912S. I have
had the pleasure of flying behind all of these power plants.. There are pros
and cons for all of them and the opinions will obviously be different for
different reasons.. most from personal experiences. I chose the 912S.. for a
variety of reasons.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail..
but, a true friend will be sitting in the cell next to you saying,
"Damn...that was fun!"
Message 23
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| Subject: | IO240 vs Rotax 914 Performance comparison - Continued |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
I've heard that Mattituck is doing that.. That is a great thing..... I did
some checking when I was with SS and found that it is a new engine through
Mattituck. I guess TCM just doesn't care to sell into the experimental
market..
I have heard a lot of stories about why Diamond dropped the 912 for the
240... most evolved around the maintenance issue.. at the time there wasn't
the familiarity with the Rotax line.. I do not know the truth to any of
it... Just what I've heard through the grapevine.... I also heard they had
their share of issues with the 240. Who knows maybe is was a marketing
choice. We all know that marketing makes the decisions not common sense or
engineering.
I have built and run several O-200 engines... Would be interesting to build
one up... Most need to turn the higher rpms to get the performance so they
don't last very long. I had considered installing high compression pistons
in one for a different project..... Not sure how the crank would hold up.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
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