Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:00 AM - Re: Metric aircraft bolts (Jeff Thomas)
2. 04:50 AM - AW: Metric aircraft bolts (Werner Keiper)
3. 07:01 AM - Re: Stratus Kitfox 5 (Mark Scott)
4. 10:37 AM - Re: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links (Lowell Fitt)
5. 10:44 AM - Re: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links (Lowell Fitt)
6. 03:14 PM - Re: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links (Clem Nichols)
7. 09:09 PM - Re: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links (david yeamans)
8. 11:29 PM - Re: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Metric aircraft bolts |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeff Thomas" <jeffthomas@ntlworld.com>
For what it's worth I believe the "grade 8" bolts being referred to (a
number 8 can be seen on the head of the bolt) represent a bolt with breaking
strain of 8 metric tonnes.
Regards
Jeff
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave & Wendy Grosvenor" <dwg@iafrica.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Metric aircraft bolts
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave & Wendy Grosvenor"
<dwg@iafrica.com>
>
> Thanks Michel and Patricia
>
> I think I should have given more info. Patricia, I'm in Durban and fly a
> Bushbaby. Bolts are grade 8, supplied with the kit. I've had some
comments
> that these are not "aircraft bolts" and concern that they hold my wings to
> the struts and the struts to the fuselage. These particular bolts are
8mm.
> Someone suggested I try to find metric aircraft bolts in Europe and relace
> the ones I have.
>
> Michel, interesting to see that the experimental guys in Europe are using
> what we are using here.
>
> I don't think my wings will come off with the 8mm bolts holding them. One
> of the Bushbaby guys tested his Bushbaby to 4.8G in flight. If a metric
> equivalent of an AN bolt was freely available, I would replace these to
keep
> the critics happy.
>
> Michel, havn't started the model yet, been too busy!
>
> Cheers
> Dave Grosvenor
> Durban, South Africa
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Metric aircraft bolts |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Werner Keiper" <Werner@keiper-koerdorf.de>
Hi Dave,
I live in Germany and could help you with this. Please tell me what you need
and I can look for that.
Have a nice day!
Werner
Kitfox 3
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Dave & Wendy
Grosvenor
Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Mrz 2004 06:02
An: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Kitfox-List: Metric aircraft bolts
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave & Wendy Grosvenor"
--> <dwg@iafrica.com>
This is for the European guys. Do you know of a source of metric aircraft
bolts? I assume you do get such a thing.
Cheers
Dave
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus Kitfox 5 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark Scott" <scottm@dol.net>
Pictures, pictures!!
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: <N53dw@aol.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Stratus Kitfox 5
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: N53dw@aol.com
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Earl Stevens" <earlaa@hotmail.com>
>
>
> What ignition system does it use? Also, what is the exhaust/muffler
> congifuration?
>
>
> Earl
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I use the dual ignition setup that Stratus supplied.....the stock
ignition,
> plus a crank-fired system run thru a coil selector to a single set of
plugs.
>
> I couldn't use the Stratus exhaust because it would have required dropping
> the lower cowl profile even further than I already did for the oil pan and
> flywheel. My exhaust is just a 2" inlet Supertrapp motorcycle muffler
hanging off
> each side with all the discs installed. I got the flanges from Stratus
and
> just had a local exhaust shop put a short 45 elbow on it, then the
Supertrapp.
> I wound up welding the stack of discs together with straps over the
outside,
> because the stock parts would not stay tight. The guys say it sounds like
a
> miniature P-51 when I make a low pass.
>
> Danny W.
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
I didn't get that impression when I read the article. I just re-read it and
This is the complete quote regarding Rotax TWO cycle engines..
"ROTAX a manufacturer of two cycle aircraft engines provide a warning on the
use of alcohol gasoline fuel blends 34. Service information detailing the
use of automotive fuel in the ROTAX two cycle aircraft engine provides the
following warning, 'Oxygenates (alcohol additives) are to be avoided, any
volume over 5% cannot be used. Testing for alcohol (content) is the only
safe way to be sure your fuel is o.k. for use in your ROTAX.'
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks Jeff,
>
> In the article, Rotax basically says no alcohol, and
> the rest of the info seems to back it up.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> Do not archive
>
> --- "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
> wrote:
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
> > "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
> >
> > Here's some useful info about Ethanol Blended
> > fuels.
> >
> http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/ethanol/review/engine-durability.html
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
I did a little research on my own searching the Rotax Owners Association
data base for both Fuel and Alcohol key words. All I found was notes
regarding the two stroke engines. And the preceding quote is basically the
recommendations. In other words there is nothing in the Service Letters or
Service Bulletins relating to Alcohol containing fuels for the four stroke
engines.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Thanks Jeff,
>
> In the article, Rotax basically says no alcohol, and
> the rest of the info seems to back it up.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> Do not archive
>
> --- "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
> wrote:
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
> > "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
> >
> > Here's some useful info about Ethanol Blended
> > fuels.
> >
> http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/ethanol/review/engine-durability.html
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Kurt:
You have the NSI Subaru engine in your plane, and I would assume it has the
Ellison throttle body injection system. Do you plan to use auto fuel (once
ethanol has been ruled out), or 100 LL? Some in the group obviously think
that the 100 LL will burn your valves up because of lead deposits. I
ordered a quart of TCP from Aircraft Spruce recently only to be told that it
only came in one gallon containers anymore, and that they didn't have any of
that. Some have mentioned Marvel Mystery Oil as a deposit preventing
additive, but that seems a bit of a stretch to my way of thinking. Ellison
says additives in auto fuel will destroy some of the components in their
injector. I would appreciate your thoughts.
Clem Nichols
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
> I did a little research on my own searching the Rotax Owners Association
> data base for both Fuel and Alcohol key words. All I found was notes
> regarding the two stroke engines. And the preceding quote is basically
the
> recommendations. In other words there is nothing in the Service Letters
or
> Service Bulletins relating to Alcohol containing fuels for the four stroke
> engines.
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Thanks Jeff,
> >
> > In the article, Rotax basically says no alcohol, and
> > the rest of the info seems to back it up.
> >
> > Kurt S.
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> > --- "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
> > wrote:
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
> > > "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
> > >
> > > Here's some useful info about Ethanol Blended
> > > fuels.
> > >
> > http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/ethanol/review/engine-durability.html
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "david yeamans" <dafox@ckt.net>
Dear Kurt,
I'm glad you brought the Rotax article up about No Alcohol.
A few years ago, when I was in the completion stage of my Kitfox IV,
Skystar sent out a service letter saying, if you use ethanol in your 582,
it will destroy the gaskets and seals. I supose that would mean any
two stroke engine.
!00 LL ( Low Lead ) has more lead than any of the other gasolene
LL is misleading !!!! Iric, The Guru from Rotax, said you may use it, but
change the plugs every 10 hours.
What will we use when 100 LL is discontinued ? And what about
our two strokes and Ethanol ? Will we have to reoverhaul to accommodate
this fuel thats detrimental to our engines ?
David
----- Original Message -----
From: kurt schrader
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Thanks Jeff,
In the article, Rotax basically says no alcohol, and
the rest of the info seems to back it up.
Kurt S.
Do not archive
--- "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
> "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
>
> Here's some useful info about Ethanol Blended
> fuels.
>
http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/ethanol/review/engine-durability.html
__________________________________
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol Blended Fuel Article / Links |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
David, Clem, Lowell and the list,
First the credit goes to Jeff for posting the
article/links. I just read and commented.
Second, I do believe there are better fuel experts
than me on the list, so I can only comment from
experience and what I have read. This is an important
subject that we need to hash over and become educated
about IMHO. Especially the 2 stroke guys. But I am
learning too.
The info Jeff posted basically said that alcohol can
seperate out of the fuel and be burned seperately in a
2 stroke. You will have no oil in it, so you go from
fuel/oil to only alcohol, or alcohol and water in your
2 stroke crankcase and bearings, etc. Since 2 strokes
use the fuel to lubricate, lubrication goes way down
when the alcohol seperates and you get trouble. That
was what I got from the info and the way Rotax
responded too. They don't seem to like alcohol either
"to be avoided" and gave a max of 5% as their limit.
I assume that limit was meant for 2 strokes, not
necessarily 912/914.
Four strokes have a different problem shared with 2
strokes and that is that alcohol can harm some
components. A few years back I started using CoColean
fuel in my Dodge van. It has 10% alcohol and seemed
to burn smoother and quieter as if it were 2-3 octane
higher than posted. I also seemed to get about 5%
more mileage from it. All seemed well until my fuel
pump and fuel filter went bad spraying fuel under the
hood. The seals had broken down. Luckily no fire.
Then Don S. did his fuel hose tests for us and I got
serious about some fuels harming my plane's
components.
My NSI does have the Ellison carb and they do say that
they can tell right away if you used alcohol fuels
thru it. Part of the reason I heard is that the
aluminum carb pits, possibly from the water in the
alcohol?
Unfortunately I didn't know this right away and used
mixed fuels for the first 6 hours, but that was spread
over 3 years as I built the plane. That means that
the fuel sat in the carb for a long time and could
have done harm. I am concerned and have been thinking
about removing my carb for inspection. It's operation
is a bit unpredictable and worse than when new. I am
just guessing at the reason so far though. There are
other possibilities.
Since then I have only used Cheveron high octane fuel
from out of my town where they don't use oxygenators.
I just bought 10 gallons again tonight, lamenting at
how it cost me about $1 every 6 minutes of flight
time. :-(
Total time on my NSI engine now is only 14.6 hrs, of
which 1.2 was today. :-))) A good test flight day
for me. Later I will test 89 octane auto fuel for
engine operation. NSI says it is fine, but I'll try
it later. Too many variables right now for me.
I planned on using 100LL as a backup only in the
future, while it lasts. I have been keeping track of
the web site that lists airports with mogas for future
flights. Unfortunately, I think it will require phone
calls to see what the mogas really is anyway.
As for valves, last week when I talked to Lance at
NSI, he really liked changing to SS exhaust valves.
So far he has no reports on intake valve failures.
The lead is for lubrication, as you know, but in our
somewhat leaky cockpits with the exhaust in front of
us, we will be breathing it too.
I know that there are a few Soob drivers who
regularily or always use 100LL in their planes. They
will have to speak from their experience themselves.
I assume they use the TCP additive.
So I was a supporter of alcohol fuel, but now I take
it as a risky subject I need to learn more about
before I use it again.
I haven't heard of using Marvel Mystery Oil in the
fuel before, just in the oil. It does quiet my old
van down as well as the CoColean did without the risk
of leaks. But as too cleaning out the lead.....?
Kurt S.
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