---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/22/04: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:32 AM - Re: Attending Sun N' Fun 2004 (Michel Gordillo) 2. 06:33 AM - Starter Flywheel Spacer loctite? (Harris, Robert) 3. 07:36 AM - YES!Re: Starter Flywheel Spacer loctite? (Harris, Robert) 4. 07:46 AM - Re: overheating 582 rotax (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 5. 07:56 AM - Re: overheating 582 rotax (Steve Cooper) 6. 08:43 AM - Re: overheating 582 rotax (michel) 7. 12:13 PM - Re: overheating 582 rotax (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 8. 12:50 PM - Re: Series 5 912 gascolator heat shield (Kerry Skyring) 9. 01:56 PM - Re: Attending Sun N' Fun 2004 (daniel johnson) 10. 02:01 PM - Re: Attending Sun N' Fun 2004 (W Duke) 11. 06:04 PM - Re: Attending Sun N' Fun 2004 (John E. King) 12. 08:43 PM - Re: Series 5 912 gascolator heat shield (jimshumaker) 13. 11:57 PM - Re: overheating 582 rotax (Kitfox) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:02 AM PST US From: "Michel Gordillo" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Attending Sun N' Fun 2004 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel Gordillo" May be I will be there at the very beginning. STill the red one???? Michel ----- Original Message ----- From: "John E. King " Subject: Kitfox-List: Attending Sun N' Fun 2004 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " > > Peter, > > Weather permitting, I plan to be there with my Series 6. Will park in > the Experimental area with the Kitfox's. > Do Not Archive. > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:15 AM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Kitfox-List: Starter Flywheel Spacer loctite? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Starter Flywheel spacer and Loctite question? Am I supposed to put Loctite on the surfaces of the flywheel spacer and the starter flywheel? In the 582 Rotax manual it appears that I should have. Thanks Robert -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Dawe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 532 Starter --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" Thanks Bob, moved 90 degrees Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Robertson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 532 Starter > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" > > Dave, > One of two things are happening. One you will be please to know can be > solved in aobut ten minutes, the other however is just a bit costly. > If you had your starter apart, there is a chance you reassembled it with the > magnets misaligned...Yup, it's easy to do and.....it will make your starter > run backwards. Been there, done that. > Take the starter off the engine, but leave the connections hooked up. Have a > buddy turn the key (or push the starter button) and watch the starter. The > bendix drive should shoot forward. Looking at the end of the starter with > the bendix drive, the starter should turn clockwise. > If it is running in reverse, remove the two long bolts , slip off the body > and rotate it 90 degrees. (To be honest, I can't remember if you have to > rotate it 90 or 180 degrees) Reassemble and try again. If it still runs > backwards rotate it another 90 degrees... Or maybe someone slse on the > list can remember. We mark thee bodies with tape and > felt pens before disasembly so it's been a while since I had to do the > guessing thing.... > If it turns clockwise and the bendix shoots forward it is most likely > the clutch on the bendix that is bad. Only solution is to replace the > bendix..... > Give the above a shot and get back to me..... > > regards > > Bob Robertson > Light Engine Services Ltd. > Rotax Service Center, > St. Albert, Alberta > T8N 1M8 > www.rtx-av-engines.ca > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Dawe" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 532 Starter > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" > > > > Hello Bob > > > > By cleaning the 12 volt connection,it worked for a while.I removed the > > starter,checked the brushes,rotary assy.,had like an arc damage on > > it,cleaned,everything back in place,runs fine,however engage gear doesn't > > work,like motor is running in reverse? > > > > Dave > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bob Robertson" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 532 Starter > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" > > > > > > > > Dave, > > > > > > I'm a certified Rotax Tech.... what's the problem with your starter? > > > > > > Bob Robertson > > > Light Engine Services Ltd. > > > Rotax Service Center > > > St. Albert, Ab. CaN. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "David Dawe" > > > To: > > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 532 Starter > > > > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" > > > > > > > > Anyone have experience working on the starter in a Rotax 532? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:07 AM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: YES!RE: Kitfox-List: Starter Flywheel Spacer loctite? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Yes. I found another Rotax document that clearly shows that I am supposed to apply loctite to the surface of the spacer and the starter gear. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Harris, Robert Subject: Kitfox-List: Starter Flywheel Spacer loctite? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Starter Flywheel spacer and Loctite question? Am I supposed to put Loctite on the surfaces of the flywheel spacer and the starter flywheel? In the 582 Rotax manual it appears that I should have. Thanks Robert -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Dawe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 532 Starter --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" Thanks Bob, moved 90 degrees Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Robertson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 532 Starter > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" > > Dave, > One of two things are happening. One you will be please to know can be > solved in aobut ten minutes, the other however is just a bit costly. > If you had your starter apart, there is a chance you reassembled it with the > magnets misaligned...Yup, it's easy to do and.....it will make your starter > run backwards. Been there, done that. > Take the starter off the engine, but leave the connections hooked up. Have a > buddy turn the key (or push the starter button) and watch the starter. The > bendix drive should shoot forward. Looking at the end of the starter with > the bendix drive, the starter should turn clockwise. > If it is running in reverse, remove the two long bolts , slip off the body > and rotate it 90 degrees. (To be honest, I can't remember if you have to > rotate it 90 or 180 degrees) Reassemble and try again. If it still runs > backwards rotate it another 90 degrees... Or maybe someone slse on the > list can remember. We mark thee bodies with tape and > felt pens before disasembly so it's been a while since I had to do the > guessing thing.... > If it turns clockwise and the bendix shoots forward it is most likely > the clutch on the bendix that is bad. Only solution is to replace the > bendix..... > Give the above a shot and get back to me..... > > regards > > Bob Robertson > Light Engine Services Ltd. > Rotax Service Center, > St. Albert, Alberta > T8N 1M8 > www.rtx-av-engines.ca > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Dawe" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 532 Starter > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" > > > > Hello Bob > > > > By cleaning the 12 volt connection,it worked for a while.I removed the > > starter,checked the brushes,rotary assy.,had like an arc damage on > > it,cleaned,everything back in place,runs fine,however engage gear doesn't > > work,like motor is running in reverse? > > > > Dave > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bob Robertson" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 532 Starter > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" > > > > > > > > Dave, > > > > > > I'm a certified Rotax Tech.... what's the problem with your starter? > > > > > > Bob Robertson > > > Light Engine Services Ltd. > > > Rotax Service Center > > > St. Albert, Ab. CaN. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "David Dawe" > > > To: > > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 532 Starter > > > > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Dawe" > > > > > > > > Anyone have experience working on the starter in a Rotax 532? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:59 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: overheating 582 rotax --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 3/21/04 3:14:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, Tc9008@aol.com writes: > > My temp on the 582 rotax will not go any lower than 190 degrees. The > outside temp is 70 degrees. Would it help if I change the antifreeze ratio. > It is > presently 50/ 50 . What else can I do to reduce the temp? > > I don't think changing the ratio will do that much for 190 degree temps. Are you absolutely sure the coolant temp sensor/gauge is accurate? 190 degrees is dangerously high. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:42 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: overheating 582 rotax --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Don...been there. I'm absolutely 100% certain that a lower ratio of coolant (like about 5%) will lower the temps significantly. In fact, I'll bet on it. :) Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: overheating 582 rotax > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > In a message dated 3/21/04 3:14:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, Tc9008@aol.com > writes: > > > > > > My temp on the 582 rotax will not go any lower than 190 degrees. The > > outside temp is 70 degrees. Would it help if I change the antifreeze ratio. > > It is > > presently 50/ 50 . What else can I do to reduce the temp? > > > > > > I don't think changing the ratio will do that much for 190 degree temps. Are > you absolutely sure the coolant temp sensor/gauge is accurate? 190 degrees > is dangerously high. > > Don Smythe > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:36 AM PST US From: michel Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: overheating 582 rotax --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel >===== Original Message From AlbertaIV@aol.com >I don't think changing the ratio will do that much for 190 degree temps. Are >you absolutely sure the coolant temp sensor/gauge is accurate? This is also something I wonder about because I have the opposite problem: Yesterday I flew touch and goes in +10 C and my temp was between 130 and 150 F, never higher, even on initial climb. I guess I should remove my temp sensor, boil some water, check with a thermometer, and with the sensor. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:24 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: overheating 582 rotax --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 3/22/04 7:57:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, spdrflyr@earthlink.net writes: > Don...been there. I'm absolutely 100% certain that a lower ratio of coolant > (like about 5%) will lower the temps significantly. In fact, I'll bet on it. > :) > > Steve > > Steve, I've also been there and done that. I agree that lowering the ratio will lower the temps however, if the engine is running 190 degrees in 70 degree weather then I feel that something else is wrong. I still say that lowering the ratio is not the first line of attack on this problem. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:09 PM PST US From: "Kerry Skyring" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Series 5 912 gascolator heat shield --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" Does anyone have photos of P/N 42923.00 heat shield installed on a Series 5 outback with Rotax 912s? This appears to be an >aluminium piece, triangle in shape, which fits between the muffler >and gascolator - apparently to stop heat getting to the gascolator >and vaporising fuel. It's all a bit indistinct in the builders manual. >My guess is that it is an aluminium piece with a 90 degree folded edge on the two sides which touch the radiator baffle and is riveted to the baffle but not to the >firewall. Can anyone shed any light, send photos or diagrams? I think Dave would be grateful as well. We're pushing on. Will we fly this summer? We hope so but these little things keep coming up. Kerry > > > > > >Kerry, I was the one who sent the pics. from John King. See attached. I > >figured out the baffling with John's pics. Now I'm "Baffled" about the > >P/N 42923.00 heat shield that is in paragraph 67 & 68 on page 35. I > >can't find it in my parts and can't figure it out from the directions. > >Any ideas? > > > >David Estapa > >Woodstock, GA > >S5 N97DE (Final Assembly) > >On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:13:31 +0100 "Kerry Skyring" > > writes: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone on the list kindly forwarded me photos of John Kings Rotax > > > 912 > > > radiator > > > baffling. In a frenzy of cleaning out my mail box I appear to have > > > deleted > > > it. > > > Can they be sent again? Many thanks. > > > Kerry > > > PS we tackled this job on the weekend and just about have it figured > > > but > > > the pics will confirm that we have it right. > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ><< Series6Radiator4.JPG >> > ><< 912SBaffle1.JPG >> > ><< 912SBaffle2.JPG >> > ><< Series6Radiator3.JPG >> > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:40 PM PST US From: "daniel johnson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Attending Sun N' Fun 2004 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "daniel johnson" I'm also planning to be at sun n fun. Looks like i may be there around the 15th and 16th or so. I'll probably put it in the experimental camping area. Dan Johnson...K3.Ohio >From: "Michel Gordillo" >Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Attending Sun N' Fun 2004 >Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:33:21 +0100 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel Gordillo" > > >May be I will be there at the very beginning. >STill the red one???? >Michel >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John E. King " >To: >Subject: Kitfox-List: Attending Sun N' Fun 2004 > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " > > > > Peter, > > > > Weather permitting, I plan to be there with my Series 6. Will park in > > the Experimental area with the Kitfox's. > > Do Not Archive. > > > > Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:56 PM PST US From: W Duke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Attending Sun N' Fun 2004 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke Possibly going but finishing our house on about the 6th so moving may take precedence this year. Maxwell N981MS daniel johnson wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "daniel johnson" I'm also planning to be at sun n fun. Looks like i may be there around the 15th and 16th or so. I'll probably put it in the experimental camping area. Dan Johnson...K3.Ohio >From: "Michel Gordillo" >Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Attending Sun N' Fun 2004 >Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:33:21 +0100 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel Gordillo" > > >May be I will be there at the very beginning. >STill the red one???? >Michel >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John E. King " >To: >Subject: Kitfox-List: Attending Sun N' Fun 2004 > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " > > > > Peter, > > > > Weather permitting, I plan to be there with my Series 6. Will park in > > the Experimental area with the Kitfox's. > > Do Not Archive. > > > > Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:13 PM PST US From: "John E. King " Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Attending Sun N' Fun 2004 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " Michel, This is my second Kitfox, a Series 6. Yes it is also painted red with the same trim colors. Hope to see you. Do Not Archive. -- John King Warrenton, VA Michel Gordillo wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel Gordillo" > >May be I will be there at the very beginning. >STill the red one???? >Michel >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John E. King " >To: >Subject: Kitfox-List: Attending Sun N' Fun 2004 > > > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " >> >>Peter, >> >>Weather permitting, I plan to be there with my Series 6. Will park in >>the Experimental area with the Kitfox's. >>Do Not Archive. >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:40 PM PST US From: "jimshumaker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Series 5 912 gascolator heat shield QUARANTINE_LEVEL=4.0 KILL_LEVEL=5.0 tests=BAYES_01 pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.5 BAYES_01 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 1 to 10% [score: 0.0533] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" Kerry Any shape of aluminum will work. Aluminum is a good conducto of heat, but an even better reflector of heat. I used a piece of roofing flashing, with bends in it to stiffen it. Jim Shumaker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerry Skyring" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Series 5 912 gascolator heat shield > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" > > Does anyone have photos of P/N 42923.00 heat shield installed on > a Series 5 outback with Rotax 912s? This appears to be an > >aluminium piece, triangle in shape, which fits between the muffler > >and gascolator - apparently to stop heat getting to the gascolator > >and vaporising fuel. It's all a bit indistinct in the builders manual. > > >My guess is that it is an aluminium piece with a 90 degree folded > edge on the two sides which touch the > radiator baffle and is riveted to the baffle but not to the > >firewall. Can anyone shed any light, send photos or diagrams? > > I think Dave would be grateful as well. > > We're pushing on. Will we fly this summer? We hope so but these > little things keep coming up. > Kerry > > > > > > > > > >Kerry, I was the one who sent the pics. from John King. See attached. I > > >figured out the baffling with John's pics. Now I'm "Baffled" about the > > >P/N 42923.00 heat shield that is in paragraph 67 & 68 on page 35. I > > >can't find it in my parts and can't figure it out from the directions. > > >Any ideas? > > > > > >David Estapa > > >Woodstock, GA > > >S5 N97DE (Final Assembly) > > >On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:13:31 +0100 "Kerry Skyring" > > > writes: > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Someone on the list kindly forwarded me photos of John Kings Rotax > > > > 912 > > > > radiator > > > > baffling. In a frenzy of cleaning out my mail box I appear to have > > > > deleted > > > > it. > > > > Can they be sent again? Many thanks. > > > > Kerry > > > > PS we tackled this job on the weekend and just about have it figured > > > > but > > > > the pics will confirm that we have it right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ><< Series6Radiator4.JPG >> > > ><< 912SBaffle1.JPG >> > > ><< 912SBaffle2.JPG >> > > ><< Series6Radiator3.JPG >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:38 PM PST US From: "Kitfox" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: overheating 582 rotax --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kitfox" I would'nt worry Michel thats exactly the temps I have had for the last 200hrs on this engine. Martin Dovey Kitfox Mk 3.5 G-BTSV Kitfox Mk 4.0 G-BZIB ----- Original Message ----- From: "michel" > This is also something I wonder about because I have the opposite problem: > Yesterday I flew touch and goes in +10 C and my temp was between 130 and 150 > F, never higher, even on initial climb.