Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:14 AM - can't help speculating.......... (hausding, sid)
2. 04:44 AM - Re: Wing plan (Dee Young)
3. 04:58 AM - Re: can't help speculating.......... (michel)
4. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: Question on message layout on list (Marc Arseneault)
5. 06:03 AM - Jabaru in a Model 4/ Steve Cooper (Herbert Doud)
6. 06:04 AM - Re: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing plan (Marc Arseneault)
7. 06:09 AM - Texas Kitfox group/Norm Beauchamp (Herbert Doud)
8. 06:31 AM - Re: Main Gear (Steve Zakreski)
9. 07:28 AM - Re: Jabaru in a Model 4/ Steve Cooper (Lowell Fitt)
10. 08:05 AM - Cowl For Sale (Kerry Skyring)
11. 08:17 AM - Re: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing plan (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
12. 08:46 AM - Re: Main Gear (Dee Young)
13. 09:19 AM - Re: Jabaru in a Model 4 have you heard of the Turbo HKS (Aerobatics@aol.com)
14. 09:31 AM - Re: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing plan (Phil Cowley)
15. 09:35 AM - Re: Jabaru in a Model 4/ Steve Cooper (Steve Cooper)
16. 09:40 AM - Avid (Dee Young)
17. 11:11 AM - Re: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing plan (Bruce Harrington)
18. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP) (Jim Burke)
19. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP) (Gary Algate)
20. 11:52 AM - Re: Skystar (Michel Verheughe)
21. 12:10 PM - Zenair floats (Gary Algate)
22. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP) (Steve Cooper)
23. 12:16 PM - Re: Zenair floats (Steve Cooper)
24. 12:38 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP) (Gary Algate)
25. 12:42 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP) (Torgeir Mortensen)
26. 01:04 PM - Re: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing (Torgeir Mortensen)
27. 01:25 PM - last week - (hausding, sid)
28. 01:34 PM - 582 HAC system Install (hausding, sid)
29. 01:48 PM - Re: Zenair floats (Marc Arseneault)
30. 01:53 PM - Re: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing plan (Marc Arseneault)
31. 02:06 PM - Re: Zenair floats (Gary Algate)
32. 04:54 PM - (no subject) (N35LS@aol.com)
33. 04:58 PM - Kitfox Trailer For Sale (N35LS@aol.com)
34. 05:35 PM - Re: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing plan (Flybradair@cs.com)
35. 05:41 PM - Re: (no subject) (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
36. 05:48 PM - Re: Skystar (Dcecil3@aol.com)
37. 05:59 PM - Re: Skystar (Randy Daughenbaugh)
38. 06:03 PM - Re: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing plan (Bob Unternaehrer)
39. 06:29 PM - Re: Skystar (Randy Daughenbaugh)
40. 06:46 PM - Re: Main Gear (Graeme Toft)
41. 06:52 PM - Re: Skystar (Steve Cooper)
42. 06:54 PM - Re: Main Gear (Steve Cooper)
43. 07:04 PM - Re: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing plan (Larry and Lisa Horne)
44. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP) (Bruce Harrington)
45. 07:50 PM - Re: Skystar (Bruce Harrington)
46. 08:01 PM - Re: Texas Kitfox group/Norm Beauchamp (Norm Beauchamp)
47. 08:10 PM - Re: Was Quiet (Jabiru 3300) (Steve Gandy)
Message 1
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| Subject: | can't help speculating.......... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Geeze Maudes Phil,
If I was to write my experiences with the Avid factory back in 97 you couldn
t have done better, except there was no receptionist.....just the general
manager, who gave me a cursory "tour" of nothing, no demos, no ride, and
then proceeded to charge me a "factory fee" for customer support because I
too had purchased an unfinished kit from another factory customer. Lost
that money........
Then the factory closed down later that DAY and moved to another airfield
situation in Nampa, and then got sold completely months later.........all
after stiffing there present sales and kit owners and the general interested
public. Now they (Avid) are out of business completely, and we aren't sure
when the "company" will bounce back, or where. Sorry to here about your
experiences also, but the forums here are absolutely the best bunch of
airplane owners in the world. Buy, build and fly with confidence by relying
on them online.
Go figure.
Sid
Avid Speedwing
N204S
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
As I recall the bracking on the model II is moved to the next set of ribs
then installed as per the bracing in the rest of the wing. That may help
some.
Dee Young
Model II N345DY
Do not archive
>From: "Marc Arseneault" <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing plan
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:12:33 -0500
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault"
><northernultralights@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Skystar from what Ihave heardfrom a few people is that they aren't
>responding tomany of therecustomers or potential customers. Some of the
>parts that some of theseguys needwould bereally good sales for them but I
>guess Skystar doesn't need sales to survive anymore. I have tried to help
>Graeme but the plans I sent him are for the speedster wing.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Marc Arseneault
>Ontario Canada
>
>From: "Dee Young" henrysfork1@msn.com Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing plan Date:
>Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:17:54 -0800 -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee
>Young" henrysfork1@msn.com Have you tried Skystar, maybe they can help. Dee
>Young Model II N345DY From: "Graeme Toft" msm@byterocky.net Reply-To:
>kitfox-list@matronics.com To: kitfox-lis
>Help protect your entire PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium Get Two
>Months FREE*
>
>
http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp
Message 3
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| Subject: | can't help speculating.......... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>===== Original Message From "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
>Go figure.
I can, Sid. It's called passion.
Even in my business (maritime education), some of our customers know our
products better than ourselves. Even if it's not by passion!
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: Question on message layout on list |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
Thanks Don and I will keep an eye out for that when I am typing.
Best Regards,
Marc Arseneault
Message 5
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| Subject: | Jabaru in a Model 4/ Steve Cooper |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Herbert Doud" <hmdoud@ev1.net>
Hi Steve Cooper..........
I read in today's Kitfox igest hat you have a Model 4, with a Jabaru 2200 engine
installed. I also have a Kitfox 4, but with a Rotax 618.
I have looked for a 4 cycle engine to install, but he cost of the engine and switch
over shook me up. Also the Rotax 912, seems to have quite a number of mandatory
bulletins.
Have you been plagued with "must do bulletins", with your Jabaru?
I talking with airplane drivers, the subject of prop tip speed has been brought
up, in that the prop looses efficiency above 2800 rpm, or so. I note that the
Jabaru, cruise rpm's are around 3300. There has been talk and suggestions,
that there was a reduction unit under works to lower the rpm's down to 2800 at
cruise. What has been your experience?
I have a roound cowling on my model 4. Would there be a problem with the Jabaru
installation in that cowling? Any heating problems? I live in South Texas,
where we let a horseshoe, laying in the hot sun.....Just lay there!
Llike to hear more about your engine and experience with it.
Herbert Doud
hmdoud@ev1.net
Message 6
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| Subject: | Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing |
plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
In my opinion Skystar had two excellent employees that cared about there customers,
John and Crystal. John is no longer there and lets hope that Crystal doesn't
leave because if she does, I don't know of anybody else there that is worth
dealing with.
I am very greatful to have this list!
Best Regards,
Marc Arseneault
Ontario Canada
From: "Phil Cowley" pcowley@virtualrcflight.com Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar - My observations
as of last week - was wing plan Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:06:35 -0800 --
Kitfox-List message posted by: "Phil Cowley" pcowley@virtualrcflight.com Hey All,
Thought I'd jump in on this one. I picked up my series 5 project last week,
and on the way back (NY - CA) I stopped by skystar to ask some questions, maybe
get some support and parts, and get a prearranged demo ride (the second time
I've been there to try to get a ride) (I've never flown in a kitfox to date,
or seen a completed series 5). When I got there, I waited about 20 minutes to
see Ed, and the Crystal (the secretary) was very busy, but did make time to
talk to us. After waiting, we got a br
ief tour of their showroom / assembly hanger (though walked past the manufacturing
portion of the facility without comment) After having to press Ed to answer
particular questions about my particular aircraft (series 5 taildragger) and
getting more or less non answers I gave up and inquired about the demo flight.
I was informed that the Turbo 7 demo (the red and white one featured everywhere)
was gone with an unnamed "Ex - Employee" who owns the aircraft and "just
came in and took it this morning, dunno where", and the RD / Demo 7 was apart
"just being checked out for the airshow coming up" (S'NF) All the demo 4's were
gone as well. Very similar story to the one I got the first time. During the
"experience" I got a feeling of indifference and was stunned by the lack of
interest in my project, and a total lack of a feeling of support. I run a small
business and would never consider treating customers in such a manner. Ed made
a comment about having problems selling aircr
aft in today's economy and the company going through a transitional phase and
walked away.... maybe I just got him on another bad day. Dave Morris was absent
that day, and I was warned by Crystal that "he had been having problems lately
with support and just to email her with questions". Her effort and caring impressed
me and I'm glad she's there. CrystalR@skystar.com To be brutally honest,
I'm not really sure how they are still in business. If I was a customer looking
at a kit after that (the second time around, similar story before) I would
definitely never purchase a kit. After having driven several hours out of my
way to visit them (for the second time), I am still glad I did it, but am left
disappointed by their (Ed's) attitude and lack of support. I can't express
how valuable this list is to myself and the kitfox community in the face of these
challenges. If anyone in California or even close is interested in showing
off their KF project/aircraft I'd be very interested
in taking a look (and would love to go for a ride if it's in the cards). If anyone
out there is interested in seeing my 5, they are more than welcome - its
currently located just a few minutes from the San Luis Obispo airport, SBP. If
you fly in I'd be happy to pick you up and go for lunch. I have pictures of
the trip and project if anyone is interested, and hope to get a website going
soon for the plane. Really short summary of the trip - there are a lot of barns
fields between Long island and San luis obispo, lots of nice people in this
country, tons of neat places I vow to see by air one day, and tons of towns and
communities that I would like to go back and visit for a few weeks each. What
a wonderful country we live in. I'm really impressed with the quality of work
done on my aircraft and can't wait to check everything and start up where the
previous owner left off. Please understand that these are just my experiences,
and should be taken as such, let's hear what
other people's experiences were. Maybe it was just I got them on two bad days .... I hope for our sake Warm Regards happy flying, Phil Cowley Series 5 / Subaru EJ22 project - making engine noises :) currently contemplating covering and engine install -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Arseneault To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing plan -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" northernultralights@hotmail.com Skystar from what Ihave heardfrom a few people is that they aren't responding tomany of therecustomers or potential customers. Some of the parts that some of theseguys needwould bereally good sales for them but I guess Skystar doesn't need sales to survive anymore. I have tried to help Graeme but the plans I sent him are for the speedster wing. Best Regards, Marc Arseneault Ontario Canada From: "Dee Young" henr
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Texas Kitfox group/Norm Beauchamp |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Herbert Doud" <hmdoud@ev1.net>
Norm, I think that your thoughts on forming a Texas Kitfox group is a great idea.....
Biggest problem, I guess, is the large distances in our state, making "get togethers"
difficult.
Where are you located? I wonder if there are many Kitfoxes in the Central Texas
area. I live in New Braunfels.
Herbert Doud
hmdoud@ev1.net
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Hi Dee
Your link doesn't work, and I can't find the listing anymore. Did it sell?
SteveZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dee Young
Subject: Kitfox-List: Main Gear
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
I have a aluminum spring gear for a Kitfox on Ebay if anyone is interested.
Dee Young
Model II N345DY
Do not archive
http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Jabaru in a Model 4/ Steve Cooper |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herbert Doud" <hmdoud@ev1.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Jabaru in a Model 4/ Steve Cooper
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Herbert Doud" <hmdoud@ev1.net>
>
> Hi Steve Cooper..........
>
>
> I have looked for a 4 cycle engine to install, but he cost of the engine
and switch over shook me up. Also the Rotax 912, seems to have quite a
number of mandatory bulletins.
>
Herb, I think there are a couple of ways to look at service bulletins.
One, as you suggest as a pain somewhere. The other, as reassurance that the
manufacturer is up on customer experiences and wants to responsibly spread
the news.
I "had" to comply with the stator change-out. Actually, as an experimental
user, my compliance was voluntary and knowing the problem and it's cause and
possible consequences, I could decide whether I wanted to comply. A friend
that came under the rocker arm bulletin, investigated the need and learned
that regular inspection and a little crocus cloth when indicated would
eliminate the need for the change-out. He chose to do the inspections.
For the Stator change-out,they provided the parts free and free loan of the
tools. They did, in all honesty, require a deposit for tool loan but were
prompt in refunding the deposit after return of the tools.
Keep in mind that the stator change was instituted because the certified
version of the engine, being used at that time in trainers, was being
sprayed with solvent to clean out the engine compartment. They determined
that Adel clamps holding the wiring from the stator may have been too tight
and in combination with solvent use compromised the integrity of the wire
insulation. Not a big issue for you or me actually, because I doubt either
of us would: #1 make a mess of the engine compartment, #2 hose it out with
solvent.
Anyway, I take real comfort in the fact that Rotax is looking out for me and
I would be very suspicious of any engine manufacturer that doesn't send out
service letters. there are no perfect engineers and experience will
inevitably result in glitches surfacing. Yesterday there were ADs published
for Lancair, Airbus - twice, Boeing, SAAB and BAE Systems, all companies
with impeccable reputations and lots of high dollar engineering staffs.
I sure don't like getting them, but definitely want them. I know of at
least one engine producer that apparently sends nothing out. All the
problems that surface are discovered either by word of mouth or when new
parts are ordered and you find they don't fit because the parts only fit an
upgraded version of the engine.
Just and opinion,
Lowell
Do not archive
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" <kerryskyring@hotmail.com>
We're located in Vienna Austria and have a smooth cowl to suit
the Series 5 with 0-200. It's unused and undamaged. The owner
decided to go with a 912 after purchasing the cowl.
The owner (i'm the helper and translator) would sell it for a good
discount on new price.
Probably only useful to Europeans because of transport costs.
Make an offer off list if interested.
Kerry
Message 11
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| Subject: | Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing |
plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Hi Phil -
Hey don't feel alone, there's a lot of people that I have met that feel
exactly the way you do about Skystar. I think most people like the
basic airplane, but the company itself could do business better, and
treat people other than simply as a source of money ... At least
so I have heard. :)
Regards,
Jeff Hays
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Phil Cowley pcowley@virtualrcflight.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing
plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Phil Cowley"
<pcowley@virtualrcflight.com>
Hey All,
Thought I'd jump in on this one. I picked up my series 5 project last
week, and on the way back (NY - CA) I stopped by skystar to ask some
questions, maybe get some support and parts, and get a prearranged demo
ride (the second time I've been there to try to get a ride) (I've never
flown in a kitfox to date, or seen a completed series 5).
When I got there, I waited about 20 minutes to see Ed, and the Crystal
(the secretary) was very busy, but did make time to talk to us.
After waiting, we got a brief tour of their showroom / assembly hanger
(though walked past the manufacturing portion of the facility without
comment)
After having to press Ed to answer particular questions about my
particular aircraft (series 5 taildragger) and getting more or less non
answers I gave up and inquired about the demo flight. I was informed
that the Turbo 7 demo (the red and white one featured everywhere) was
gone with an unnamed "Ex - Employee" who owns the aircraft and "just
came in and took it this morning, dunno where", and the R&D / Demo 7 was
apart "just being checked out for the airshow coming up" (S'NF) All the
demo 4's were gone as well. Very similar story to the one I got the
first time.
During the "experience" I got a feeling of indifference and was stunned
by the lack of interest in my project, and a total lack of a feeling of
support. I run a small business and would never consider treating
customers in such a manner.
Ed made a comment about having problems selling aircraft in today's
economy and the company going through a transitional phase and walked
away.... maybe I just got him on another bad day.
Dave Morris was absent that day, and I was warned by Crystal that "he
had been having problems lately with support and just to email her with
questions". Her effort and caring impressed me and I'm glad she's there.
CrystalR@skystar.com
To be brutally honest, I'm not really sure how they are still in
business. If I was a customer looking at a kit after that (the second
time around, similar story before) I would definitely never purchase a
kit.
After having driven several hours out of my way to visit them (for the
second time), I am still glad I did it, but am left disappointed by
their (Ed's) attitude and lack of support. I can't express how valuable
this list is to myself and the kitfox community in the face of these
challenges.
If anyone in California or even close is interested in showing off their
KF project/aircraft I'd be very interested in taking a look (and would
love to go for a ride if it's in the cards).
If anyone out there is interested in seeing my 5, they are more than
welcome - its currently located just a few minutes from the San Luis
Obispo airport, SBP. If you fly in I'd be happy to pick you up and go
for lunch. I have pictures of the trip and project if anyone is
interested, and hope to get a website going soon for the plane.
Really short summary of the trip - there are a lot of barns & fields
between Long island and San luis obispo, lots of nice people in this
country, tons of neat places I vow to see by air one day, and tons of
towns and communities that I would like to go back and visit for a few
weeks each. What a wonderful country we live in. I'm really impressed
with the quality of work done on my aircraft and can't wait to check
everything and start up where the previous owner left off.
Please understand that these are just my experiences, and should be
taken as such, let's hear what other people's experiences were. Maybe it
was just I got them on two bad days .... I hope for our sake
Warm Regards & happy flying,
Phil Cowley
Series 5 / Subaru EJ22 project - making engine noises :) & currently
contemplating covering and engine install
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc
Arseneault
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault"
<northernultralights@hotmail.com>
Skystar from what Ihave heardfrom a few people is that they aren't
responding tomany of therecustomers or potential customers. Some of the
parts that some of theseguys needwould bereally good sales for them but
I guess Skystar doesn't need sales to survive anymore. I have tried to
help Graeme but the plans I sent him are for the speedster wing.
Best Regards,
Marc Arseneault
Ontario Canada
From: "Dee Young" henrysfork1@msn.com Reply-To:
kitfox-list@matronics.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE:
Kitfox-List: Wing plan Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:17:54 -0800 --
Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" henrysfork1@msn.com Have you
tried Skystar, maybe they can help. Dee Young Model II N345DY From:
"Graeme Toft" msm@byterocky.net Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com To:
kitfox-lis
Help protect your entire PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium Get Two
Months FREE*
==
==
==
==
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Yes it sold
do not archive
>From: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Main Gear
>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:31:29 -0700
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
>
>Hi Dee
>
>Your link doesn't work, and I can't find the listing anymore. Did it sell?
>
>SteveZ
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dee Young
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Main Gear
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
>I have a aluminum spring gear for a Kitfox on Ebay if anyone is interested.
>
>Dee Young
>Model II N345DY
>
>
>Do not archive
>
>http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp
>
>
http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Jabaru in a Model 4 have you heard of the Turbo HKS |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
I hear its78 HP and lighter than the 912 and a lot cheaper...
Sounds like aneat package!
Dave
KF2 582
Message 14
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| Subject: | Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing |
plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Phil Cowley" <pcowley@virtualrcflight.com>
Hey All,
Thanks for all your excellent and immediate responses - as I mentioned
earlier, I can't express how valuable this list is to us all. I can't
agree more with Sid that this is the best group of aircraft owners I've
ever met.
I feel far, far from alone, just alienated from SS, which seems to be
the norm.
To all the avid builders/owners, my regards go out to you.
Does anyone know the current story / status / contact info of the Avid
company? or what is happening with it? Having a background in small
business, and after touring a couple of aircraft manufacturer's
recently, the glaring thing that stands out in my mind is it could be
done so much better in so many ways
Thanks again,
Phil Cowley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jeff.hays@aselia.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar - My observations as of last week -
was wing plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
<jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Hi Phil -
Hey don't feel alone, there's a lot of people that I have met that feel
exactly the way you do about Skystar. I think most people like the
basic airplane, but the company itself could do business better, and
treat people other than simply as a source of money ... At least
so I have heard. :)
Regards,
Jeff Hays
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Phil Cowley pcowley@virtualrcflight.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was
wing
plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Phil Cowley"
<pcowley@virtualrcflight.com>
Hey All,
Thought I'd jump in on this one. I picked up my series 5 project last
week, and on the way back (NY - CA) I stopped by skystar to ask some
questions, maybe get some support and parts, and get a prearranged demo
ride (the second time I've been there to try to get a ride) (I've never
flown in a kitfox to date, or seen a completed series 5).
When I got there, I waited about 20 minutes to see Ed, and the Crystal
(the secretary) was very busy, but did make time to talk to us.
After waiting, we got a brief tour of their showroom / assembly hanger
(though walked past the manufacturing portion of the facility without
comment)
After having to press Ed to answer particular questions about my
particular aircraft (series 5 taildragger) and getting more or less non
answers I gave up and inquired about the demo flight. I was informed
that the Turbo 7 demo (the red and white one featured everywhere) was
gone with an unnamed "Ex - Employee" who owns the aircraft and "just
came in and took it this morning, dunno where", and the R&D / Demo 7 was
apart "just being checked out for the airshow coming up" (S'NF) All the
demo 4's were gone as well. Very similar story to the one I got the
first time.
During the "experience" I got a feeling of indifference and was stunned
by the lack of interest in my project, and a total lack of a feeling of
support. I run a small business and would never consider treating
customers in such a manner.
Ed made a comment about having problems selling aircraft in today's
economy and the company going through a transitional phase and walked
away.... maybe I just got him on another bad day.
Dave Morris was absent that day, and I was warned by Crystal that "he
had been having problems lately with support and just to email her with
questions". Her effort and caring impressed me and I'm glad she's there.
CrystalR@skystar.com
To be brutally honest, I'm not really sure how they are still in
business. If I was a customer looking at a kit after that (the second
time around, similar story before) I would definitely never purchase a
kit.
After having driven several hours out of my way to visit them (for the
second time), I am still glad I did it, but am left disappointed by
their (Ed's) attitude and lack of support. I can't express how valuable
this list is to myself and the kitfox community in the face of these
challenges.
If anyone in California or even close is interested in showing off their
KF project/aircraft I'd be very interested in taking a look (and would
love to go for a ride if it's in the cards).
If anyone out there is interested in seeing my 5, they are more than
welcome - its currently located just a few minutes from the San Luis
Obispo airport, SBP. If you fly in I'd be happy to pick you up and go
for lunch. I have pictures of the trip and project if anyone is
interested, and hope to get a website going soon for the plane.
Really short summary of the trip - there are a lot of barns & fields
between Long island and San luis obispo, lots of nice people in this
country, tons of neat places I vow to see by air one day, and tons of
towns and communities that I would like to go back and visit for a few
weeks each. What a wonderful country we live in. I'm really impressed
with the quality of work done on my aircraft and can't wait to check
everything and start up where the previous owner left off.
Please understand that these are just my experiences, and should be
taken as such, let's hear what other people's experiences were. Maybe it
was just I got them on two bad days .... I hope for our sake
Warm Regards & happy flying,
Phil Cowley
Series 5 / Subaru EJ22 project - making engine noises :) & currently
contemplating covering and engine install
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc
Arseneault
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault"
<northernultralights@hotmail.com>
Skystar from what Ihave heardfrom a few people is that they aren't
responding tomany of therecustomers or potential customers. Some of the
parts that some of theseguys needwould bereally good sales for them but
I guess Skystar doesn't need sales to survive anymore. I have tried to
help Graeme but the plans I sent him are for the speedster wing.
Best Regards,
Marc Arseneault
Ontario Canada
From: "Dee Young" henrysfork1@msn.com Reply-To:
kitfox-list@matronics.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE:
Kitfox-List: Wing plan Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:17:54 -0800 --
Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" henrysfork1@msn.com Have you
tried Skystar, maybe they can help. Dee Young Model II N345DY From:
"Graeme Toft" msm@byterocky.net Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com To:
kitfox-lis
Help protect your entire PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium Get Two
Months FREE*
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Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Jabaru in a Model 4/ Steve Cooper |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herbert Doud" <hmdoud@ev1.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Jabaru in a Model 4/ Steve Cooper
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Herbert Doud" <hmdoud@ev1.net>
>
> Hi Steve Cooper..........
>
> I read in today's Kitfox igest hat you have a Model 4, with a Jabaru 2200
engine installed. I also have a Kitfox 4, but with a Rotax 618.
>
> I have looked for a 4 cycle engine to install, but he cost of the engine
and switch over shook me up. Also the Rotax 912, seems to have quite a
number of mandatory bulletins.
>
> Have you been plagued with "must do bulletins", with your Jabaru?
No Herbert...but I decided to go the economical route with my Jabiru. I
found a used one that had supposedly been overheated for $3500. Ser. No.
296. Then I pulled it apart to check everything out. This is what I had to
do to my $3500 Jabiru:
Polish crank journals..$35
Hone cylinders..free(did them myself)
New rings..$15 per piston
New main bearings..$85
New rod bearings..$65
New gasket set..$110
Special Locktite..$65
Time..80 hours, also free(did all the work myself)
I also elected to replace the alloy rods (600 hour TBO) with the new steel
rods(2000 hour TBO) while I had the engine apart. It was a personal
choice.$900
So lets see. Upon inspection following teardown it was discovered that the
engine had less than 5 hours on it (cam lobe wear) and the overheat issue
was extremely minimal. The rod replacement required clearencing of the
camshaft and one shoulder of a rod. Everything else in the engine was well
withen spec. Subsequent break-in was performed in the air and I now have
about 10 hours on the engine. Total powerplant dollar investment: roughly
$4820
>
> I talking with airplane drivers, the subject of prop tip speed has been
brought up, in that the prop looses efficiency above 2800 rpm, or so. I
note that the Jabaru, cruise rpm's are around 3300.
Nope! At 1150 gross my bird cruises at: 2800 rpm 85 MPH (but it's a STOL and
hasn't been cleaned up yet.) You can go all the way up to 68" diameter prop
and still be well under max. I swing a Prince P-tip 64" and I wish it was
longer. I'm about to try a new 68" Warp.
There has been talk and suggestions, that there was a reduction unit under
works to lower the rpm's down to 2800 at cruise. What has been your
experience?
Well, like I said, my bird cruises fine at 2800, even a little less.
2900~3000 is actually nominal, but I don't really need to go that fast. I
also enjoy the 3.5 GPH I'm getting.
>
> I have a roound cowling on my model 4. Would there be a problem with the
Jabaru installation in that cowling? Any heating problems? I live in South
Texas, where we let a horseshoe, laying in the hot sun.....Just lay there!
Ya, you would want to change your cowling. The nose bowl means EVERYTHING to
Jabiru cooling. I had to graft a Jabiru nose bowl onto a stock Mark IV
cowling. If your interested I have lots of pics on line under Yahoo Fly-UL
photos section under folder marked Cooper. It shows a little of the Jab
installation and the work I did on the cowl. It was well worth the effort.
I'm delighted with the Jabiru performance...and ya know what else..It
doesn't leak a drop. No seapage, nothing! AND It pulls like a freight train.
Steve
>
> Llike to hear more about your engine and experience with it.
>
> Herbert Doud
>
> hmdoud@ev1.net
>
>
Message 16
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
The current owner of Avid has fled to parts unknown. The jigs and other
equipment were still at the factroy site in Ennis, Montana a month ago. It
would be nice to see it up and going again as Avid is a good airplane.
Unfortunatly it takes a lot of cash flow to keep the doors open.
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do not archive
>From: "Phil Cowley" <pcowley@virtualrcflight.com>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was
>wing plan
>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:30:46 -0800
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Phil Cowley"
><pcowley@virtualrcflight.com>
>
>Hey All,
>
>Thanks for all your excellent and immediate responses - as I mentioned
>earlier, I can't express how valuable this list is to us all. I can't
>agree more with Sid that this is the best group of aircraft owners I've
>ever met.
>
>I feel far, far from alone, just alienated from SS, which seems to be
>the norm.
>
>To all the avid builders/owners, my regards go out to you.
>
>Does anyone know the current story / status / contact info of the Avid
>company? or what is happening with it? Having a background in small
>business, and after touring a couple of aircraft manufacturer's
>recently, the glaring thing that stands out in my mind is it could be
>done so much better in so many ways
>
>Thanks again,
>
>Phil Cowley
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>jeff.hays@aselia.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar - My observations as of last week -
>was wing plan
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
><jeff.hays@aselia.com>
>
>
>Hi Phil -
>
>Hey don't feel alone, there's a lot of people that I have met that feel
>exactly the way you do about Skystar. I think most people like the
>basic airplane, but the company itself could do business better, and
>treat people other than simply as a source of money ... At least
>so I have heard. :)
>
>Regards,
>Jeff Hays
>
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>From: Phil Cowley pcowley@virtualrcflight.com
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:06:35 -0800
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was
>wing
>plan
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Phil Cowley"
><pcowley@virtualrcflight.com>
>
>Hey All,
>
>Thought I'd jump in on this one. I picked up my series 5 project last
>week, and on the way back (NY - CA) I stopped by skystar to ask some
>questions, maybe get some support and parts, and get a prearranged demo
>ride (the second time I've been there to try to get a ride) (I've never
>flown in a kitfox to date, or seen a completed series 5).
>
>When I got there, I waited about 20 minutes to see Ed, and the Crystal
>(the secretary) was very busy, but did make time to talk to us.
>
>After waiting, we got a brief tour of their showroom / assembly hanger
>(though walked past the manufacturing portion of the facility without
>comment)
>
>After having to press Ed to answer particular questions about my
>particular aircraft (series 5 taildragger) and getting more or less non
>answers I gave up and inquired about the demo flight. I was informed
>that the Turbo 7 demo (the red and white one featured everywhere) was
>gone with an unnamed "Ex - Employee" who owns the aircraft and "just
>came in and took it this morning, dunno where", and the R&D / Demo 7 was
>apart "just being checked out for the airshow coming up" (S'NF) All the
>demo 4's were gone as well. Very similar story to the one I got the
>first time.
>
>During the "experience" I got a feeling of indifference and was stunned
>by the lack of interest in my project, and a total lack of a feeling of
>support. I run a small business and would never consider treating
>customers in such a manner.
>
>Ed made a comment about having problems selling aircraft in today's
>economy and the company going through a transitional phase and walked
>away.... maybe I just got him on another bad day.
>
>Dave Morris was absent that day, and I was warned by Crystal that "he
>had been having problems lately with support and just to email her with
>questions". Her effort and caring impressed me and I'm glad she's there.
>CrystalR@skystar.com
>
>To be brutally honest, I'm not really sure how they are still in
>business. If I was a customer looking at a kit after that (the second
>time around, similar story before) I would definitely never purchase a
>kit.
>
>After having driven several hours out of my way to visit them (for the
>second time), I am still glad I did it, but am left disappointed by
>their (Ed's) attitude and lack of support. I can't express how valuable
>this list is to myself and the kitfox community in the face of these
>challenges.
>
>If anyone in California or even close is interested in showing off their
>KF project/aircraft I'd be very interested in taking a look (and would
>love to go for a ride if it's in the cards).
>
>If anyone out there is interested in seeing my 5, they are more than
>welcome - its currently located just a few minutes from the San Luis
>Obispo airport, SBP. If you fly in I'd be happy to pick you up and go
>for lunch. I have pictures of the trip and project if anyone is
>interested, and hope to get a website going soon for the plane.
>
>Really short summary of the trip - there are a lot of barns & fields
>between Long island and San luis obispo, lots of nice people in this
>country, tons of neat places I vow to see by air one day, and tons of
>towns and communities that I would like to go back and visit for a few
>weeks each. What a wonderful country we live in. I'm really impressed
>with the quality of work done on my aircraft and can't wait to check
>everything and start up where the previous owner left off.
>
>Please understand that these are just my experiences, and should be
>taken as such, let's hear what other people's experiences were. Maybe it
>was just I got them on two bad days .... I hope for our sake
>
>Warm Regards & happy flying,
>
>Phil Cowley
>Series 5 / Subaru EJ22 project - making engine noises :) & currently
>contemplating covering and engine install
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc
>Arseneault
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing plan
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault"
><northernultralights@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Skystar from what Ihave heardfrom a few people is that they aren't
>responding tomany of therecustomers or potential customers. Some of the
>parts that some of theseguys needwould bereally good sales for them but
>I guess Skystar doesn't need sales to survive anymore. I have tried to
>help Graeme but the plans I sent him are for the speedster wing.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Marc Arseneault
>Ontario Canada
>
>From: "Dee Young" henrysfork1@msn.com Reply-To:
>kitfox-list@matronics.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE:
>Kitfox-List: Wing plan Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:17:54 -0800 --
>Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" henrysfork1@msn.com Have you
>tried Skystar, maybe they can help. Dee Young Model II N345DY From:
>"Graeme Toft" msm@byterocky.net Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com To:
>kitfox-lis
>Help protect your entire PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium Get Two
>Months FREE*
>
>
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>
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>==
>
>
http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing |
plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Phil,
The homebuilt aircraft industry is one of the many places you can
make a small fortune out of a much larger one.
Van's shop is one of the profitable ones.
Please give the SkyStar boys a chance to get back on their feet.
The run away Cessna 182 without insurance really set them back,
followed by 9-11 and cancellation of orders.
Hopefully the Sport Pilot stuff will give them a chance to recover.
Regards,
Bruce
ex-N194KF, 582ed IV-1200 (Classic now), 800+ hrs
Sonex N321SX, Jab 3300ed, 66.6 hrs
> Does anyone know the current story / status / contact info of the Avid
> company? or what is happening with it? Having a background in small
> business, and after touring a couple of aircraft manufacturer's
> recently, the glaring thing that stands out in my mind is it could be
> done so much better in so many ways
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Phil Cowley
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
As promised, Here is the test results of the HAC system I purchased from
Olenik Aviation and installed on my Kitfox IV 582. I have posted pictures on
Sport Flight for reference if anyone is planing on install this system.
Using the new main jets they supplied and all parts recommended by them
this is the outcome of my flight test yesterday and today. The flight test
lasted well over an hour so I am confident the new HAC system is performing
as advertised.
YESTERDAYS READINGS
EGT TEMPS@ 72 degrees F
IDLE: 850-900 degrees
LOW RPM: 3000-4000 RPM=1000 degrees for (for 10 min.)
MID RANGE: 4000-5500 RPM=1050-1075 degrees (for 20 min.)
FULL OPEN: 6200-6400 RPM= 1100-1125 (for 3 min.)
TODAYS READINGS
EGT TEMPS@ 48 degrees F
IDLE: 850-900 degrees
LOW RPM: 3000-4000 RPM=1000 degrees for (for 10 min.)
MID RANGE: 4000-5500 RPM=1050-1075 degrees (for 20 min.)
FULL OPEN: 6200-6400 RPM= 1125-1150 (for 3 min.)
As you can see with a 24 degree F temp.spread I showed little EGT temp
change during this test, and the change was on full open only.
I would like to have a wider range of temp. to verify operation of the
HAC system but I guess that will have to what until next winter. But I am
excited about warmer weather coming, and I sure won't have a problem waiting
for colder weather to finish the test.
If anyone else has install the HAC system I would be interested in
hearing from you, and how yours turned out.
James E. Burke
(N94JE)
-------Original Message-------
From: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
Thanks a lot my friend. I hope it works good. If it
does I might try it.
Glenn Horne _ Suffolk, Va
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Burke
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
Well Glenn, The installation went well. Now if I can get the weather to
cooperate I will make the the needed adjustments to the clips and jetting. I
think the jetting on my engine is running a little rich,EGTs are running a
little low at mid range. My understanding is minor adjustments may be needed
on a cases to case bases. I will let you know how everything turns out.
James E. Burke
(N94JE)
-------Original Message-------
From: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
Hi James,
Glenn Horne here. I would like to know how it
works and how the HAC system performs.
I also have a Fox with a 582 and was thinking about
putting one on mine. Let me know how it does.
Thank you very much.
Glenn Horne Suffolk, Va.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Burke
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
I have just completed installing a HAC system on my 582, for those that
would be interested I have posted pictures on Sportflight.
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader
pl?action=main&category=Add-Ons/Modifications
James E. Burke
(N94JE)
-------Original Message-------
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Sorry I've come onto this one late - what is the HAC system
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Bruce Harrington wrote:
> Hopefully the Sport Pilot stuff will give them a chance to recover.
I hope it does, Bruce. It is always sad to see a business going down,
especially when it has from a long tradition in the trade for excellent craftsmanship.
However, when I look at the scene in Europe, it looks like the homebuilt
concept is on its way out and that fast and smooth fuselage fast carbon fibre
hulls are the thing to come. I am a beginner and don't know well the industry
but if I compare with e.g. the yacht industry, I notice three periods. First,
when yachts were built traditionally by shipyards for the rich who liked
racing. Then, the 50s and 60s, when the middle class man built cheaper plywood
hulls, often with much room for family sailing. Then the age of the glass fibre
boats, smooth and elegant, direct from the factory.
I might be opening a can of worms on a list called "Kitfox Builder" but ... how
many of us want to build and how many want to fly? Our microlight club has
recruited 9 candidates to be trained this year. Since I was asked to teach
meteorology, I met them and, as far as I understood, none of them was willing
to spend say 2,000 hours building a plane before becoming a pilot. They all
intend to look at the second-hand market once they get their license.
Maybe SkyStar should bring their experience in plane making to the next
generation of glass/carbon fibre hulls. Just my very, very modest opinion.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 21
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
It appears I maybe moving a little south and will not have the benefit of a
lake at my back door. This being the case I am considering selling my Zenair
floats if anyone is interested.(Still undecided but probably will)- Floats
are painted white with black vinyl trim (trim can be removed to change
colour scheme)
They are complete with twin water rudders and streamlined struts to fit a
Lite2 / Model 4 / classic 4.
Just bolt on and fly.
They work great and are extremely light.
I will be looking for amphibs as I will be based at a small airpark.
I have posted some photos on Sportflight - under "other / miscellaneous"
(Zenair Floats)
I am looking for $6200 CDN or USD$4700 ex-Sudbury, Ontario.
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Burke
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
As promised, Here is the test results of the HAC system I purchased from
Olenik Aviation and installed on my Kitfox IV 582. I have posted pictures on
Sport Flight for reference if anyone is planing on install this system.
Using the new main jets they supplied and all parts recommended by them
this is the outcome of my flight test yesterday and today. The flight test
lasted well over an hour so I am confident the new HAC system is performing
as advertised.
YESTERDAYS READINGS
EGT TEMPS@ 72 degrees F
IDLE: 850-900 degrees
LOW RPM: 3000-4000 RPM=1000 degrees for (for 10 min.)
MID RANGE: 4000-5500 RPM=1050-1075 degrees (for 20 min.)
FULL OPEN: 6200-6400 RPM= 1100-1125 (for 3 min.)
TODAYS READINGS
EGT TEMPS@ 48 degrees F
IDLE: 850-900 degrees
LOW RPM: 3000-4000 RPM=1000 degrees for (for 10 min.)
MID RANGE: 4000-5500 RPM=1050-1075 degrees (for 20 min.)
FULL OPEN: 6200-6400 RPM= 1125-1150 (for 3 min.)
As you can see with a 24 degree F temp.spread I showed little EGT temp
change during this test, and the change was on full open only.
I would like to have a wider range of temp. to verify operation of the
HAC system but I guess that will have to what until next winter. But I am
excited about warmer weather coming, and I sure won't have a problem waiting
for colder weather to finish the test.
If anyone else has install the HAC system I would be interested in
hearing from you, and how yours turned out.
James E. Burke
(N94JE)
-------Original Message-------
From: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
Thanks a lot my friend. I hope it works good. If it
does I might try it.
Glenn Horne _ Suffolk, Va
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Burke
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
Well Glenn, The installation went well. Now if I can get the weather to
cooperate I will make the the needed adjustments to the clips and jetting. I
think the jetting on my engine is running a little rich,EGTs are running a
little low at mid range. My understanding is minor adjustments may be needed
on a cases to case bases. I will let you know how everything turns out.
James E. Burke
(N94JE)
-------Original Message-------
From: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
Hi James,
Glenn Horne here. I would like to know how it
works and how the HAC system performs.
I also have a Fox with a 582 and was thinking about
putting one on mine. Let me know how it does.
Thank you very much.
Glenn Horne Suffolk, Va.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Burke
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
I have just completed installing a HAC system on my 582, for those that
would be interested I have posted pictures on Sportflight.
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader
pl?action=main&category=Add-Ons/Modifications
James E. Burke
(N94JE)
-------Original Message-------
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
High Altitude Compensation. The Bing Carb uses an external or internal
bellows which modulates the jetting automatically. The physics of the system
should provide infinate modulation...I've never heard of this problem with
altitude limit. In fact, I've read of the system being used to cross Mt.
McKinley in a trike. This was accomplished by Mike Jacober. This may have
been hios own design Arctic Sparrow...BUT our carbs are based on the same
design I believe.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP)
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
> Sorry I've come onto this one late - what is the HAC system
>
> Gary Algate
> Lite2/582
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Zenair floats |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Too rich for my blood Gary, but I'd sure like to have a set of floats. I may
be moving to Montana soon. Oh well...someday! ;)
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Zenair floats
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
>
> It appears I maybe moving a little south and will not have the benefit of
a
> lake at my back door. This being the case I am considering selling my
Zenair
> floats if anyone is interested.(Still undecided but probably will)- Floats
> are painted white with black vinyl trim (trim can be removed to change
> colour scheme)
>
> They are complete with twin water rudders and streamlined struts to fit a
> Lite2 / Model 4 / classic 4.
>
> Just bolt on and fly.
>
> They work great and are extremely light.
>
> I will be looking for amphibs as I will be based at a small airpark.
>
> I have posted some photos on Sportflight - under "other / miscellaneous"
> (Zenair Floats)
>
> I am looking for $6200 CDN or USD$4700 ex-Sudbury, Ontario.
>
> Gary Algate
> Lite2/582
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Burke
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP)
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
>
> As promised, Here is the test results of the HAC system I purchased from
> Olenik Aviation and installed on my Kitfox IV 582. I have posted pictures
on
> Sport Flight for reference if anyone is planing on install this system.
> Using the new main jets they supplied and all parts recommended by
them
> this is the outcome of my flight test yesterday and today. The flight test
> lasted well over an hour so I am confident the new HAC system is
performing
> as advertised.
>
> YESTERDAYS READINGS
> EGT TEMPS@ 72 degrees F
> IDLE: 850-900 degrees
> LOW RPM: 3000-4000 RPM=1000 degrees for (for 10 min.)
> MID RANGE: 4000-5500 RPM=1050-1075 degrees (for 20 min.)
> FULL OPEN: 6200-6400 RPM= 1100-1125 (for 3 min.)
>
>
> TODAYS READINGS
> EGT TEMPS@ 48 degrees F
> IDLE: 850-900 degrees
> LOW RPM: 3000-4000 RPM=1000 degrees for (for 10 min.)
> MID RANGE: 4000-5500 RPM=1050-1075 degrees (for 20 min.)
> FULL OPEN: 6200-6400 RPM= 1125-1150 (for 3 min.)
>
> As you can see with a 24 degree F temp.spread I showed little EGT temp
> change during this test, and the change was on full open only.
> I would like to have a wider range of temp. to verify operation of the
> HAC system but I guess that will have to what until next winter. But I am
> excited about warmer weather coming, and I sure won't have a problem
waiting
> for colder weather to finish the test.
> If anyone else has install the HAC system I would be interested in
> hearing from you, and how yours turned out.
>
>
> James E. Burke
> (N94JE)
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Date: 3/17/2004 7:23:32 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
>
> Thanks a lot my friend. I hope it works good. If it
> does I might try it.
> Glenn Horne _ Suffolk, Va
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Burke
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
>
> Well Glenn, The installation went well. Now if I can get the weather to
> cooperate I will make the the needed adjustments to the clips and jetting.
I
> think the jetting on my engine is running a little rich,EGTs are running a
> little low at mid range. My understanding is minor adjustments may be
needed
> on a cases to case bases. I will let you know how everything turns out.
>
>
> James E. Burke
> (N94JE)
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Date: 3/16/2004 9:50:49 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
>
> Hi James,
> Glenn Horne here. I would like to know how it
> works and how the HAC system performs.
> I also have a Fox with a 582 and was thinking about
> putting one on mine. Let me know how it does.
> Thank you very much.
> Glenn Horne Suffolk, Va.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Burke
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
>
> I have just completed installing a HAC system on my 582, for those that
> would be interested I have posted pictures on Sportflight.
>
> http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader
> pl?action=main&category=Add-Ons/Modifications
>
> James E. Burke
> (N94JE)
> -------Original Message-------
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Thanks for the update
Gary
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Cooper
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper"
--> <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
High Altitude Compensation.
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Jim,
Just returned from a two week work in Sweden.
I've seen the pictures on the Sport flight site, great info in your
pictures.
Did you modify the carb, by drilling out the connection for carburettor
(low) pressure?
From the picture, you're using black strap, why not using screw's, nut
and locktite? The black straps cant stand much of a high temperature,
but there is a "purple" kind of straps - for high temp use.
Thanks for great info about HAC system (high altitude compensation) -
should be standard on any two stroke Rotax.
Best regards
Torgeir.
Jim Burke wrote:
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
>
> As promised, Here is the test results of the HAC system I purchased from
> Olenik Aviation and installed on my Kitfox IV 582. I have posted pictures on
> Sport Flight for reference if anyone is planing on install this system.
> Using the new main jets they supplied and all parts recommended by them
> this is the outcome of my flight test yesterday and today. The flight test
> lasted well over an hour so I am confident the new HAC system is performing
> as advertised.
>
> YESTERDAYS READINGS
> EGT TEMPS@ 72 degrees F
> IDLE: 850-900 degrees
> LOW RPM: 3000-4000 RPM=1000 degrees for (for 10 min.)
> MID RANGE: 4000-5500 RPM=1050-1075 degrees (for 20 min.)
> FULL OPEN: 6200-6400 RPM= 1100-1125 (for 3 min.)
>
> TODAYS READINGS
> EGT TEMPS@ 48 degrees F
> IDLE: 850-900 degrees
> LOW RPM: 3000-4000 RPM=1000 degrees for (for 10 min.)
> MID RANGE: 4000-5500 RPM=1050-1075 degrees (for 20 min.)
> FULL OPEN: 6200-6400 RPM= 1125-1150 (for 3 min.)
>
> As you can see with a 24 degree F temp.spread I showed little EGT temp
> change during this test, and the change was on full open only.
> I would like to have a wider range of temp. to verify operation of the
> HAC system but I guess that will have to what until next winter. But I am
> excited about warmer weather coming, and I sure won't have a problem waiting
> for colder weather to finish the test.
> If anyone else has install the HAC system I would be interested in
> hearing from you, and how yours turned out.
>
> James E. Burke
> (N94JE)
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Date: 3/17/2004 7:23:32 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
>
> Thanks a lot my friend. I hope it works good. If it
> does I might try it.
> Glenn Horne _ Suffolk, Va
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Burke
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
>
> Well Glenn, The installation went well. Now if I can get the weather to
> cooperate I will make the the needed adjustments to the clips and jetting. I
> think the jetting on my engine is running a little rich,EGTs are running a
> little low at mid range. My understanding is minor adjustments may be needed
> on a cases to case bases. I will let you know how everything turns out.
>
> James E. Burke
> (N94JE)
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Date: 3/16/2004 9:50:49 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
>
> Hi James,
> Glenn Horne here. I would like to know how it
> works and how the HAC system performs.
> I also have a Fox with a 582 and was thinking about
> putting one on mine. Let me know how it does.
> Thank you very much.
> Glenn Horne Suffolk, Va.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Burke
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
>
> I have just completed installing a HAC system on my 582, for those that
> would be interested I have posted pictures on Sportflight.
>
> http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader
> pl?action=main&category=Add-Ons/Modifications
>
> James E. Burke
> (N94JE)
> -------Original Message-------
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing |
plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Bruce,
You certainly put the right word, -fully agree.
Let's try to support them- by buying item's from Skystar, we'll need
"our" company- for sure.
Cheers
Torgeir.
Bruce Harrington wrote:
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
>
> Phil,
> The homebuilt aircraft industry is one of the many places you can
> make a small fortune out of a much larger one.
> Van's shop is one of the profitable ones.
> Please give the SkyStar boys a chance to get back on their feet.
> The run away Cessna 182 without insurance really set them back,
> followed by 9-11 and cancellation of orders.
> Hopefully the Sport Pilot stuff will give them a chance to recover.
> Regards,
> Bruce
> ex-N194KF, 582ed IV-1200 (Classic now), 800+ hrs
> Sonex N321SX, Jab 3300ed, 66.6 hrs
>
> > Does anyone know the current story / status / contact info of the Avid
> > company? or what is happening with it? Having a background in small
> > business, and after touring a couple of aircraft manufacturer's
> > recently, the glaring thing that stands out in my mind is it could be
> > done so much better in so many ways
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > Phil Cowley
>
Message 27
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Phil, if you find out anything in your quest for knowledge, let us all know.
Maybe even go to the Avid forum at Yahoo and let them know also.
Thank you,
Sid
Avid Speedwing
-------------------
Does anyone know the current story / status / contact info of the Avid
company? or what is happening with it? Having a background in small
business, and after touring a couple of aircraft manufacturer's
recently, the glaring thing that stands out in my mind is it could be
done so much better in so many ways
Thanks again,
Phil Cowley
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | 582 HAC system Install |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Jim, several on the Avid list (avid_flyer@yahoogroups.com) have installed
and are using the HAC with good results, and there is an article in pictures
under the archives you could compare procedures with. I would be interested
in talking to you after you review that method compared to yours.
Sid
------------
Jim Burke wrote:
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
>
> As promised, Here is the test results of the HAC system I purchased from
> Olenik Aviation and installed on my Kitfox IV 582. I have posted pictures
on
> Sport Flight for reference if anyone is planing on install this system.
> Using the new main jets they supplied and all parts recommended by
them
> this is the outcome of my flight test yesterday and today. The flight test
> lasted well over an hour so I am confident the new HAC system is
performing
> as advertised.
>
> YESTERDAYS READINGS
> EGT TEMPS@ 72 degrees F
> IDLE: 850-900 degrees
> LOW RPM: 3000-4000 RPM1000 degrees for (for 10 min.)
> MID RANGE: 4000-5500 RPM1050-1075 degrees (for 20 min.)
> FULL OPEN: 6200-6400 RPM 1100-1125 (for 3 min.)
>
> TODAYS READINGS
> EGT TEMPS@ 48 degrees F
> IDLE: 850-900 degrees
> LOW RPM: 3000-4000 RPM1000 degrees for (for 10 min.)
> MID RANGE: 4000-5500 RPM1050-1075 degrees (for 20 min.)
> FULL OPEN: 6200-6400 RPM 1125-1150 (for 3 min.)
>
> As you can see with a 24 degree F temp.spread I showed little EGT temp
> change during this test, and the change was on full open only.
> I would like to have a wider range of temp. to verify operation of the
> HAC system but I guess that will have to what until next winter. But I am
> excited about warmer weather coming, and I sure won't have a problem
waiting
> for colder weather to finish the test.
> If anyone else has install the HAC system I would be interested in
> hearing from you, and how yours turned out.
>
> James E. Burke
> (N94JE)
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Date: 3/17/2004 7:23:32 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
>
> Thanks a lot my friend. I hope it works good. If it
> does I might try it.
> Glenn Horne _ Suffolk, Va
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Burke
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
>
> Well Glenn, The installation went well. Now if I can get the weather to
> cooperate I will make the the needed adjustments to the clips and jetting.
I
> think the jetting on my engine is running a little rich,EGTs are running a
> little low at mid range. My understanding is minor adjustments may be
needed
> on a cases to case bases. I will let you know how everything turns out.
>
> James E. Burke
> (N94JE)
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Date: 3/16/2004 9:50:49 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
>
> Hi James,
> Glenn Horne here. I would like to know how it
> works and how the HAC system performs.
> I also have a Fox with a 582 and was thinking about
> putting one on mine. Let me know how it does.
> Thank you very much.
> Glenn Horne Suffolk, Va.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Burke
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
>
> I have just completed installing a HAC system on my 582, for those that
> would be interested I have posted pictures on Sportflight.
>
> http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader
> pl?actionmain&categoryAdd-Ons/Modifications
>
> James E. Burke
> (N94JE)
> -------Original Message-------
>
Message 29
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
Hi Gary
What do you mean you are moving south?
Best Regards,
Marc Arseneault
Ontario Canada From: "Gary Algate" algate@attglobal.net Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Zenair floats
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:06:43 -0800 -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary
Algate" algate@attglobal.net It appears I maybe moving a little south and will
not have the benefit of a lake at my back door. This being the case I am considering
selling my Zenair floats if anyone is interested.(Still undecided but
probably will)- Floats are painted white with black vinyl trim (trim can be removed
to change colour scheme) They are complete with twin water rudders and
streamlined struts to fit a Lite2 / Model 4 / classic 4. Just bolt on and fly.
They work great and are extremely light. I will be looking for amphibs as I will
be based at a small airpark. I have posted some photos on Sportflight - under
"other / mis
cellaneous" (Zenair Floats) I am looking for $6200 CDN or USD$4700 ex-Sudbury, Ontario. Gary Algate Lite2/582 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Burke To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP) -- Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke jeburke94je@direcway.com As promised, Here is the test results of the HAC system I purchased from Olenik Aviation and installed on my Kitfox IV 582. I have posted pictures on Sport Flight for reference if anyone is planing on install this system. Using the new main jets they supplied and all parts recommended by them this is the outcome of my flight test yesterday and today. The flight test lasted well over an hour so I am confident the new HAC system is performing as advertised. YESTERDAYS READINGS EGT TEMPS@ 72 degrees F IDLE: 850-900 degrees LOW RPM: 3000-4000 RPM=1000
degrees for (for 10 min.) MID RANGE: 4000-5500 RPM=1050-1075 degrees (for 20
min.) FULL OPEN: 6200-6400 RPM= 1100-1125 (for 3 min.) TODAYS READINGS EGT TEMPS@
48 degrees F IDLE: 850-900 degrees LOW RPM: 3000-4000 RPM=1000 degrees for
(for 10 min.) MID RANGE: 4000-5500 RPM=1050-1075 degrees (for 20 min.) FULL OPEN:
6200-6400 RPM= 1125-1150 (for 3 min.) As you can see with a 24 degree F temp.spread
I showed little EGT temp change during this test, and the change was
on full open only. I would like to have a wider range of temp. to verify operation
of the HAC system but I guess that will have to what until next winter.
But I am excited about warmer weather coming, and I sure won't have a problem
waiting for colder weather to finish the test. If anyone else has install the
HAC system I would be interested in hearing from you, and how yours turned out.
James E. Burke (N94JE) -------Original Message------- From: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Date: 3/17/2004 7:23:32 PM To: kitfox-list
@matronics.com Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" glennflys@rcn.com Thanks a lot my friend. I hope it works good. If it does I might try it. Glenn Horne _ Suffolk, Va -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Burke To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install -- Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke jeburke94je@direcway.com Well Glenn, The installation went well. Now if I can get the weather to cooperate I will make the the needed adjustments to the clips and jetting. I think the jetting on my engine is running a little rich,EGTs are running a little low at mid range. My understanding is minor adjustments may be needed on a cases to case bases. I will let you know how everything turns out. James E. Burke (N94JE) -------Original Message-----
-- From: kitfox-list@matronics.com Date: 3/16/2004 9:50:49 PM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" glennflys@rcn.com Hi James, Glenn Horne here. I would like to know how it works and how the HAC system performs. I also have a Fox with a 582 and was thinking about putting one on mine. Let me know how it does. Thank you very much. Glenn Horne Suffolk, Va. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Burke To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install -- Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke jeburke94je@direcway.com I have just completed installing a HAC system on my 582, for those that would be interested I have posted pictures on Sportflight. http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader pl?action=maincategory=Add-Ons/
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing |
plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
I couldn't agree with you more but the problem is they aren't responding to e-mail's
or returning calls on prices to there customers so.........
Best Regards,
Marc Arseneault
Ontario Canada From: Torgeir Mortensen torgemor@online.no Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar
- My observations as of last week - was wing plan Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:08:15
+0200 -- Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen torgemor@online.no
Hi Bruce, You certainly put the right word, -fully agree. Let's try to support
them- by buying item's from Skystar, we'll need "our" company- for sure.
Cheers Torgeir. Bruce Harrington wrote: -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce
Harrington" aerowood@mcsi.net Phil, The homebuilt aircraft industry is
one of the many places you can make a small fortune out of a much larger one.
Van's shop is one of the profitable ones. Please give the SkyStar boys a chance
to get back on their feet. The run away Cessna
====================================================================
Message 31
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
We have purchased a manufacturing company in Barrie and I will be heading
down with the family to run the show. Looks like I'll be moving around May
Gary
Gary Algate
President
SDS Digger Tools Canada Inc
Ph. +1 (705) 670-8459
Fax +1 (705) 670-9591
Cell +1 (705) 688-2236
Message 32
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: N35LS@aol.com
I have a Kitfox trailer for sale ( Like new condition ) $1,800. If anybody is
interested you can reach me off list at N35LS@aol.com.
I also have 3 complete 0-290G's available, looking for offers
Message 33
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| Subject: | Kitfox Trailer For Sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: N35LS@aol.com
I have a Kitfox trailer for sale ( Like new condition ) $1,800. If anybody is
interested you can reach me off list at N35LS@aol.com.
I also have 3 complete 0-290G's available, looking for offers
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing |
plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Flybradair@cs.com
Hi Phil
Sorry your experience with Skystar was not more like mine, there is no excuse
for it. Times have not always been like that and all of us hope that it gets
better again.
My 5 was purchased in 99--having sat in one at Osh. and another at an
Oklahoma fly-inn. I still wanted to fly in one and see the operation in Caldwell
before I plunked down hard earned money. Flew out to Boise (commercial) and was
picked up at the airport and driven 30 miles to the factory. I was given a
thorough tour of the factory and all operations. It is (was)? a very well run
company. Frank Miller was my test pilot for the flight (In my opinion he is the
best resource the company has---and owns or did own a 5 with the lycoming. He is
still there.) and he let me "wring" out the airplane thoroughly---5 Cont.---I
couldn't believe the performance. Anyway, I was treated well from everyone
involved and had a very enjoyable time. (I bought the airplane)
In late 02 I was ready to order the firewall forward kit. Having decided that
I would use the o-235 lycoming for mine (we all have different reasons for
engine choices----I like old reliable) I was a little apprehensive as Skystar
was going through tough times (for many different reasons) and it was more hard
earned money that I didn't want to lose. I had a good talk with John Mcbean at
Osh.(even gave me his home number) and he is a great source of
information.(as a bunch of folks on this list are). I followed his advice (thanks
John) and
received the Firewall Forward kit on the exact day that it was supposed to
arrive. Have 2 hoses on backorder---very good---although others have not had such
luck. They are working on this problem (I am told).
The fact is some people are getting good service--some are not. You have a
wonderful aircraft and try not to get discouraged before you even start---you
WILL have obstacles thrown in your way that you will have to overcome, you will
overcome them.
My plane is now painted and the engine install is going well. Instruments and
prop (when I can afford them) will be my last step to achieve my dream. Do
not let anyone,(or any company) stop you.
Just my experience.
Brad Martin
Wichita
5-o235l2c
engine install
In a message dated 3/29/04 11:11:04 PM Central Standard Time,
pcowley@virtualrcflight.com writes:
> Subj: Kitfox-List: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing
> plan
> Date:3/29/04 11:11:04 PM Central Standard Time
> From:pcowley@virtualrcflight.com
> Reply-to:kitfox-list@matronics.com
> To:kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Phil Cowley" <
> pcowley@virtualrcflight.com>
>
> Hey All,
>
> Thought I'd jump in on this one. I picked up my series 5 project last
> week, and on the way back (NY - CA) I stopped by skystar to ask some
> questions, maybe get some support and parts, and get a prearranged demo
> ride (the second time I've been there to try to get a ride) (I've never
> flown in a kitfox to date, or seen a completed series 5).
>
> When I got there, I waited about 20 minutes to see Ed, and the Crystal
> (the secretary) was very busy, but did make time to talk to us.
>
> After waiting, we got a brief tour of their showroom / assembly hanger
> (though walked past the manufacturing portion of the facility without
> comment)
>
> After having to press Ed to answer particular questions about my
> particular aircraft (series 5 taildragger) and getting more or less non
> answers I gave up and inquired about the demo flight. I was informed
> that the Turbo 7 demo (the red and white one featured everywhere) was
> gone with an unnamed "Ex - Employee" who owns the aircraft and "just
> came in and took it this morning, dunno where", and the R&D / Demo 7 was
> apart "just being checked out for the airshow coming up" (S'NF) All the
> demo 4's were gone as well. Very similar story to the one I got the
> first time.
>
> During the "experience" I got a feeling of indifference and was stunned
> by the lack of interest in my project, and a total lack of a feeling of
> support. I run a small business and would never consider treating
> customers in such a manner.
>
> Ed made a comment about having problems selling aircraft in today's
> economy and the company going through a transitional phase and walked
> away.... maybe I just got him on another bad day.
>
> Dave Morris was absent that day, and I was warned by Crystal that "he
> had been having problems lately with support and just to email her with
> questions". Her effort and caring impressed me and I'm glad she's there.
> CrystalR@skystar.com
>
> To be brutally honest, I'm not really sure how they are still in
> business. If I was a customer looking at a kit after that (the second
> time around, similar story before) I would definitely never purchase a
> kit.
>
> After having driven several hours out of my way to visit them (for the
> second time), I am still glad I did it, but am left disappointed by
> their (Ed's) attitude and lack of support. I can't express how valuable
> this list is to myself and the kitfox community in the face of these
> challenges.
>
> If anyone in California or even close is interested in showing off their
> KF project/aircraft I'd be very interested in taking a look (and would
> love to go for a ride if it's in the cards).
>
> If anyone out there is interested in seeing my 5, they are more than
> welcome - its currently located just a few minutes from the San Luis
> Obispo airport, SBP. If you fly in I'd be happy to pick you up and go
> for lunch. I have pictures of the trip and project if anyone is
> interested, and hope to get a website going soon for the plane.
>
> Really short summary of the trip - there are a lot of barns &fields
> between Long island and San luis obispo, lots of nice people in this
> country, tons of neat places I vow to see by air one day, and tons of
> towns and communities that I would like to go back and visit for a few
> weeks each. What a wonderful country we live in. I'm really impressed
> with the quality of work done on my aircraft and can't wait to check
> everything and start up where the previous owner left off.
>
> Please understand that these are just my experiences, and should be
> taken as such, let's hear what other people's experiences were. Maybe it
> was just I got them on two bad days .... I hope for our sake
>
> Warm Regards &happy flying,
>
> Phil Cowley
> Series 5 / Subaru EJ22 project - making engine noises :) ¤tly
> contemplating covering and engine install
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc
> Arseneault
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing plan
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault"
> <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Skystar from what Ihave heardfrom a few people is that they aren't
> responding tomany of therecustomers or potential customers. Some of the
> parts that some of theseguys needwould bereally good sales for them but
> I guess Skystar doesn't need sales to survive anymore. I have tried to
> help Graeme but the plans I sent him are for the speedster wing.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Marc Arseneault
> Ontario Canada
>
> From: "Dee Young" henrysfork1@msn.com Reply-To:
> kitfox-list@matronics.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE:
> Kitfox-List: Wing plan Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:17:54 -0800 --
> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" henrysfork1@msn.com Have you
> tried Skystar, maybe they can help. Dee Young Model II N345DY From:
> "Graeme Toft" msm@byterocky.net Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com To:
> kitfox-lis
> Help protect your entire PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium Get Two
> Months FREE*
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
In a message dated 3/30/04 4:58:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, N35LS@aol.com
writes:
I also have 3 complete 0-290G's available, looking for offers
***
The man who wrote the original conversion manual on the O-290G for his
Masters Thesis is still around, a good friend of mine. I don't know if he still
sells the conversion plans or not, but this is the engine that really got EAA
"off the ground" [in my opinion] with an inexpensive engine ~~ back then anyway.
If anyone is interested in contacting him let me know off list please.
e-mail emaproducts@aol.com
Elbie Mendenhall
EM Aviation
Message 36
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
I too am taken aback by Skystars lack of "People" skills. I placed an order
in Dec. for a spar,Insert,some ribs and 912 motormount parts. Here it's almost
April and no sign yet. I talked to Dave Yesterday and he said that they were
waiting on the rubber bushings for the motor mount, so I ask if they could send
me what they had? he said he didn't know! This is the guy that runs the parts
Dept. and He doesn't know?.....Well I know. The Kitfox is an awesome little
plane and Dan Denny's vision created one of the best kitplanes ever, but down
right Shitty business practice can kill even the best design. So don't worry
Skystar you'll be right there with Avid,Piper,Bellanca,and all the others that
thought the plane will sell itself. They sell something all of us can do
without, not treating every order like the "Holy Grail" however small is just plain
STUPID. I think Dave is a Liar, he doesn't have the order filled minus the
Bushings or he'd send it and send the bushings when he got them, I mean those can
go Priority mail??????? It's just another Stall. I may be totally wrong but
if they're in business this time next year I will truly be surprised .I'd just
like to get the parts I need befor they go Belly Up
D Cecil
KF3950
Message 37
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Michel,
You may be right...... But I for one want a tube and rag plane. ... That I
built. I don't want fast glass.
I can't explain why anymore than I can explain why a tail dragger is more
fun than the planes with the single wheel in front.
Randy N10NH getting closer!
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Bruce Harrington wrote:
> Hopefully the Sport Pilot stuff will give them a chance to recover.
I hope it does, Bruce. It is always sad to see a business going down,
especially when it has from a long tradition in the trade for excellent
craftsmanship.
However, when I look at the scene in Europe, it looks like the homebuilt
concept is on its way out and that fast and smooth fuselage fast carbon
fibre
hulls are the thing to come. I am a beginner and don't know well the
industry
but if I compare with e.g. the yacht industry, I notice three periods.
First,
when yachts were built traditionally by shipyards for the rich who liked
racing. Then, the 50s and 60s, when the middle class man built cheaper
plywood
hulls, often with much room for family sailing. Then the age of the glass
fibre
boats, smooth and elegant, direct from the factory.
I might be opening a can of worms on a list called "Kitfox Builder" but ...
how
many of us want to build and how many want to fly? Our microlight club has
recruited 9 candidates to be trained this year. Since I was asked to teach
meteorology, I met them and, as far as I understood, none of them was
willing
to spend say 2,000 hours building a plane before becoming a pilot. They all
intend to look at the second-hand market once they get their license.
Maybe SkyStar should bring their experience in plane making to the next
generation of glass/carbon fibre hulls. Just my very, very modest opinion.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing |
plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@c-magic.com>
I think you'll find lots of undercapitalized small airplane companys with
the same attitude towards the "2nd or 3rd Owners" They all say it's a big
problem to suport someones project who they haven't recieved any funds from.
It's sort of like which comes first the chicken or the egg. If they invest
the funds to support the project the new owner will complete the project and
they never hear from them. If they don't support there are hard feelings.
Maybe between a "rock and hard place" ... Not a good place to be but its
reality. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Cowley" <pcowley@virtualrcflight.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing
plan
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Phil Cowley"
<pcowley@virtualrcflight.com>
>
> Hey All,
>
> Thought I'd jump in on this one. I picked up my series 5 project last
> week, and on the way back (NY - CA) I stopped by skystar to ask some
> questions, maybe get some support and parts, and get a prearranged demo
> ride (the second time I've been there to try to get a ride) (I've never
> flown in a kitfox to date, or seen a completed series 5).
>
> When I got there, I waited about 20 minutes to see Ed, and the Crystal
> (the secretary) was very busy, but did make time to talk to us.
>
> After waiting, we got a brief tour of their showroom / assembly hanger
> (though walked past the manufacturing portion of the facility without
> comment)
>
> After having to press Ed to answer particular questions about my
> particular aircraft (series 5 taildragger) and getting more or less non
> answers I gave up and inquired about the demo flight. I was informed
> that the Turbo 7 demo (the red and white one featured everywhere) was
> gone with an unnamed "Ex - Employee" who owns the aircraft and "just
> came in and took it this morning, dunno where", and the R&D / Demo 7 was
> apart "just being checked out for the airshow coming up" (S'NF) All the
> demo 4's were gone as well. Very similar story to the one I got the
> first time.
>
> During the "experience" I got a feeling of indifference and was stunned
> by the lack of interest in my project, and a total lack of a feeling of
> support. I run a small business and would never consider treating
> customers in such a manner.
>
> Ed made a comment about having problems selling aircraft in today's
> economy and the company going through a transitional phase and walked
> away.... maybe I just got him on another bad day.
>
> Dave Morris was absent that day, and I was warned by Crystal that "he
> had been having problems lately with support and just to email her with
> questions". Her effort and caring impressed me and I'm glad she's there.
> CrystalR@skystar.com
>
> To be brutally honest, I'm not really sure how they are still in
> business. If I was a customer looking at a kit after that (the second
> time around, similar story before) I would definitely never purchase a
> kit.
>
> After having driven several hours out of my way to visit them (for the
> second time), I am still glad I did it, but am left disappointed by
> their (Ed's) attitude and lack of support. I can't express how valuable
> this list is to myself and the kitfox community in the face of these
> challenges.
>
> If anyone in California or even close is interested in showing off their
> KF project/aircraft I'd be very interested in taking a look (and would
> love to go for a ride if it's in the cards).
>
> If anyone out there is interested in seeing my 5, they are more than
> welcome - its currently located just a few minutes from the San Luis
> Obispo airport, SBP. If you fly in I'd be happy to pick you up and go
> for lunch. I have pictures of the trip and project if anyone is
> interested, and hope to get a website going soon for the plane.
>
> Really short summary of the trip - there are a lot of barns & fields
> between Long island and San luis obispo, lots of nice people in this
> country, tons of neat places I vow to see by air one day, and tons of
> towns and communities that I would like to go back and visit for a few
> weeks each. What a wonderful country we live in. I'm really impressed
> with the quality of work done on my aircraft and can't wait to check
> everything and start up where the previous owner left off.
>
> Please understand that these are just my experiences, and should be
> taken as such, let's hear what other people's experiences were. Maybe it
> was just I got them on two bad days .... I hope for our sake
>
> Warm Regards & happy flying,
>
> Phil Cowley
> Series 5 / Subaru EJ22 project - making engine noises :) & currently
> contemplating covering and engine install
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc
> Arseneault
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing plan
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault"
> <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Skystar from what Ihave heardfrom a few people is that they aren't
> responding tomany of therecustomers or potential customers. Some of the
> parts that some of theseguys needwould bereally good sales for them but
> I guess Skystar doesn't need sales to survive anymore. I have tried to
> help Graeme but the plans I sent him are for the speedster wing.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Marc Arseneault
> Ontario Canada
>
> From: "Dee Young" henrysfork1@msn.com Reply-To:
> kitfox-list@matronics.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE:
> Kitfox-List: Wing plan Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:17:54 -0800 --
> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" henrysfork1@msn.com Have you
> tried Skystar, maybe they can help. Dee Young Model II N345DY From:
> "Graeme Toft" msm@byterocky.net Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com To:
> kitfox-lis
> Help protect your entire PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium Get Two
> Months FREE*
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
Message 39
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
They have been kinda slow lately, but they have come through with some
things for me that sound much like what you describe. One order was held up
waiting for some bolts, but came through.
I hope they make it over the hump! I am still waiting for some parts.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dcecil3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
I too am taken aback by Skystars lack of "People" skills. I placed an order
in Dec. for a spar,Insert,some ribs and 912 motormount parts. Here it's
almost
April and no sign yet. I talked to Dave Yesterday and he said that they were
waiting on the rubber bushings for the motor mount, so I ask if they could
send
me what they had? he said he didn't know! This is the guy that runs the
parts
Dept. and He doesn't know?.....Well I know. The Kitfox is an awesome little
plane and Dan Denny's vision created one of the best kitplanes ever, but
down
right Shitty business practice can kill even the best design. So don't worry
Skystar you'll be right there with Avid,Piper,Bellanca,and all the others
that
thought the plane will sell itself. They sell something all of us can do
without, not treating every order like the "Holy Grail" however small is
just plain
STUPID. I think Dave is a Liar, he doesn't have the order filled minus the
Bushings or he'd send it and send the bushings when he got them, I mean
those can
go Priority mail??????? It's just another Stall. I may be totally wrong but
if they're in business this time next year I will truly be surprised .I'd
just
like to get the parts I need befor they go Belly Up
D Cecil
KF3950
Message 40
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Hi Dee, just out of curiosity, how much would you expect to pay for a new
main spring gear. I have checked in OZ and they retail they are around
AU$1200 (US$900). We have the standard factory set up on our Mk 1 but
reading the Kitfox list and various articles about handling etc, they appear
to come a poor second to the one you have for sale. Pity where so far away
as I would be knocking on your door. I have been watching the list and
reading the concerns you all have in regards to Kitfox's current financial
position. It would be a real shame for you to loose such a popular aircraft.
Comments have been made about the new era of fast tupperware planes and how
various types may one day become redundant. In one way this may be partially
true but from my own experience, people fly aircraft such as the Kitfox
because of the nostalgia feel and love they have for things of the past.
Here in OZ we have tupperware planes zipping about everywhere but most are
in
the $80 - $100K price group. We do not have a mid range aircraft
manufacturer that caters for the flyer in the middle to low income bracket.
Our only attempt to fill this void was made by SkyFox which is a not to
distant relation to the Kitfox and although many of these are still flying,
they are no longer being produced. Maybe a business opportunity there
somewhere!!!!.
Regards
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Zakreski" <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Main Gear
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
>
> Hi Dee
>
> Your link doesn't work, and I can't find the listing anymore. Did it
sell?
>
> SteveZ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dee Young
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Main Gear
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
> I have a aluminum spring gear for a Kitfox on Ebay if anyone is
interested.
>
> Dee Young
> Model II N345DY
>
>
> Do not archive
>
> http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp
>
>
Message 41
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Companys like Skystar, Avid etc. operate under a fiscal policy called
Negative Displacement Balance Forward. NDBF funds are those dollars that are
required to fill each susequent preceeding order. In other words, they use
your money to fill the order behind yours. They used THAT persons dollars to
fund the order(s) which came in before his...and so on and so on. This works
as long as there are new orders, however, when business gets slow or stops
all hell breaks loose. They were fat while buisiness was fat, but as soon as
the orders stopped rolling the Dollar crunch hit like a lead weight which
they have REAL trouble recovering from. In Avids case, Engines, kits, parts
and services went undelivered. The Customer was left holding the bag and
many did. I bought my kit from the estate of a gentleman whom Avid owed a
Rotax 912...they had a sudden case of amnesia when the customers family
tried to collect on the engine after the gentleman passed away. Needless to
say they were beside themselves when they tried to sell the "complete" kit
to me.
Did you like the NDBF thing?...That was mine, but, unfortunately true! Make
sure your not a NDBF victim. I hope Skystar makes it out of the hole. Avid
did not.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skystar
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> They have been kinda slow lately, but they have come through with some
> things for me that sound much like what you describe. One order was held
up
> waiting for some bolts, but came through.
>
> I hope they make it over the hump! I am still waiting for some parts.
>
> Randy
>
> .
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dcecil3@aol.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
>
> I too am taken aback by Skystars lack of "People" skills. I placed an
order
> in Dec. for a spar,Insert,some ribs and 912 motormount parts. Here it's
> almost
> April and no sign yet. I talked to Dave Yesterday and he said that they
were
>
> waiting on the rubber bushings for the motor mount, so I ask if they could
> send
> me what they had? he said he didn't know! This is the guy that runs the
> parts
> Dept. and He doesn't know?.....Well I know. The Kitfox is an awesome
little
> plane and Dan Denny's vision created one of the best kitplanes ever, but
> down
> right Shitty business practice can kill even the best design. So don't
worry
>
> Skystar you'll be right there with Avid,Piper,Bellanca,and all the others
> that
> thought the plane will sell itself. They sell something all of us can do
> without, not treating every order like the "Holy Grail" however small is
> just plain
> STUPID. I think Dave is a Liar, he doesn't have the order filled minus the
> Bushings or he'd send it and send the bushings when he got them, I mean
> those can
> go Priority mail??????? It's just another Stall. I may be totally wrong
but
> if they're in business this time next year I will truly be surprised .I'd
> just
> like to get the parts I need befor they go Belly Up
> D Cecil
> KF3950
>
>
Message 42
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Ahhh, but they are! Checkout Airdale!
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Main Gear
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
>
> Hi Dee, just out of curiosity, how much would you expect to pay for a new
> main spring gear. I have checked in OZ and they retail they are around
> AU$1200 (US$900). We have the standard factory set up on our Mk 1 but
> reading the Kitfox list and various articles about handling etc, they
appear
> to come a poor second to the one you have for sale. Pity where so far away
> as I would be knocking on your door. I have been watching the list and
> reading the concerns you all have in regards to Kitfox's current financial
> position. It would be a real shame for you to loose such a popular
aircraft.
> Comments have been made about the new era of fast tupperware planes and
how
> various types may one day become redundant. In one way this may be
partially
> true but from my own experience, people fly aircraft such as the Kitfox
> because of the nostalgia feel and love they have for things of the past.
> Here in OZ we have tupperware planes zipping about everywhere but most are
> in
> the $80 - $100K price group. We do not have a mid range aircraft
> manufacturer that caters for the flyer in the middle to low income
bracket.
> Our only attempt to fill this void was made by SkyFox which is a not to
> distant relation to the Kitfox and although many of these are still
flying,
> they are no longer being produced. Maybe a business opportunity there
> somewhere!!!!.
>
> Regards
> Graeme
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Zakreski" <szakreski@shaw.ca>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Main Gear
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
> >
> > Hi Dee
> >
> > Your link doesn't work, and I can't find the listing anymore. Did it
> sell?
> >
> > SteveZ
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dee Young
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Main Gear
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
> >
> > I have a aluminum spring gear for a Kitfox on Ebay if anyone is
> interested.
> >
> > Dee Young
> > Model II N345DY
> >
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> > http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp
> >
> >
>
>
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing |
plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry and Lisa Horne" <hornav8@erols.com>
I'm sorry to make my initial posting to the list in a negative light but
your assessment of the venture aviation market propels me to add the
following.
Just the small amount of understanding that I have regarding the general
aviation and sport pilot/enthusiast markets tells me that most of these
companies can not afford to properly posture themselves (long=term) for the
follow-on logistics and supply chain issues that comes with the business
(note there are still production aircraft flying that were built in the
40's).
Kit manufactures are obligated, in good faith, to support each platform they
produce, this is why standardization and the utilization of commercially
available (off the shelf) parts is key to there long-term success. They
should be blind as to whom is requiring downstream support. They only need
be interested in the fact that the support is for one of their kits and not
whether it is a 2nd or 3rd builder. Actually, my experience shows that the
2nd and 3rd owners end up making modifications and or build changes that may
result in additional sales to the kit supplier.
Nonetheless, general aviation is a stressed industry. The
Sport/Exerimental/Ultralight markets (with minor exception) all rose out of
the limited supply of affordable factory manufactured/production aircraft.
Who can afford $200,000 for a Cessna 172 with a decent avionics (IFR)
package? But these prices certainly explain the cost of the logistical
support along with the liability associated with the industry. There is
just no way for small aircraft manufactures to succeed long-term with the
existing market pressures unless they structure both initial sales and
follow-on support properly. Just take a look at any Trade-A-Plane, the
basic Aeronca Champ has appreciated over 500% in 50 years......and you can
still get parts for it.
Sorry to belabor the point, but there is no excuse of not providing good
service to whomever seeks it especially if the individual thinks enough of
the company's project aircraft to challenge the natural laws of gravity each
time they leave the hanger. Unfortunately market and other economical
pressures will force aircraft manufactures to be responsive to their
customers or pay a price. The price often being chapter 11 restructuring
and then the pilots and owners end up paying the real price.
As you may guess, I'm a long-time pilot. Over 35 years with 20 of them
official. I've participated in to 2 homebuilts, 3 restorations and
currently own a production aircraft and a KFII. I will not get into my
feelings as to why flight instructors get $25/hr and golf instructors
$75/hr. Go figure.
I'm off the soap box now but enjoyed chat.
V/R
Larry Horne
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Unternaehrer
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skystar - My observations as of last week -
was wing plan
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@c-magic.com>
I think you'll find lots of undercapitalized small airplane companys with
the same attitude towards the "2nd or 3rd Owners" They all say it's a big
problem to suport someones project who they haven't recieved any funds from.
It's sort of like which comes first the chicken or the egg. If they invest
the funds to support the project the new owner will complete the project and
they never hear from them. If they don't support there are hard feelings.
Maybe between a "rock and hard place" ... Not a good place to be but its
reality. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Cowley" <pcowley@virtualrcflight.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Skystar - My observations as of last week - was wing
plan
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Phil Cowley"
<pcowley@virtualrcflight.com>
>
> Hey All,
>
> Thought I'd jump in on this one. I picked up my series 5 project last
> week, and on the way back (NY - CA) I stopped by skystar to ask some
> questions, maybe get some support and parts, and get a prearranged demo
> ride (the second time I've been there to try to get a ride) (I've never
> flown in a kitfox to date, or seen a completed series 5).
>
> When I got there, I waited about 20 minutes to see Ed, and the Crystal
> (the secretary) was very busy, but did make time to talk to us.
>
> After waiting, we got a brief tour of their showroom / assembly hanger
> (though walked past the manufacturing portion of the facility without
> comment)
>
> After having to press Ed to answer particular questions about my
> particular aircraft (series 5 taildragger) and getting more or less non
> answers I gave up and inquired about the demo flight. I was informed
> that the Turbo 7 demo (the red and white one featured everywhere) was
> gone with an unnamed "Ex - Employee" who owns the aircraft and "just
> came in and took it this morning, dunno where", and the R&D / Demo 7 was
> apart "just being checked out for the airshow coming up" (S'NF) All the
> demo 4's were gone as well. Very similar story to the one I got the
> first time.
>
> During the "experience" I got a feeling of indifference and was stunned
> by the lack of interest in my project, and a total lack of a feeling of
> support. I run a small business and would never consider treating
> customers in such a manner.
>
> Ed made a comment about having problems selling aircraft in today's
> economy and the company going through a transitional phase and walked
> away.... maybe I just got him on another bad day.
>
> Dave Morris was absent that day, and I was warned by Crystal that "he
> had been having problems lately with support and just to email her with
> questions". Her effort and caring impressed me and I'm glad she's there.
> CrystalR@skystar.com
>
> To be brutally honest, I'm not really sure how they are still in
> business. If I was a customer looking at a kit after that (the second
> time around, similar story before) I would definitely never purchase a
> kit.
>
> After having driven several hours out of my way to visit them (for the
> second time), I am still glad I did it, but am left disappointed by
> their (Ed's) attitude and lack of support. I can't express how valuable
> this list is to myself and the kitfox community in the face of these
> challenges.
>
> If anyone in California or even close is interested in showing off their
> KF project/aircraft I'd be very interested in taking a look (and would
> love to go for a ride if it's in the cards).
>
> If anyone out there is interested in seeing my 5, they are more than
> welcome - its currently located just a few minutes from the San Luis
> Obispo airport, SBP. If you fly in I'd be happy to pick you up and go
> for lunch. I have pictures of the trip and project if anyone is
> interested, and hope to get a website going soon for the plane.
>
> Really short summary of the trip - there are a lot of barns & fields
> between Long island and San luis obispo, lots of nice people in this
> country, tons of neat places I vow to see by air one day, and tons of
> towns and communities that I would like to go back and visit for a few
> weeks each. What a wonderful country we live in. I'm really impressed
> with the quality of work done on my aircraft and can't wait to check
> everything and start up where the previous owner left off.
>
> Please understand that these are just my experiences, and should be
> taken as such, let's hear what other people's experiences were. Maybe it
> was just I got them on two bad days .... I hope for our sake
>
> Warm Regards & happy flying,
>
> Phil Cowley
> Series 5 / Subaru EJ22 project - making engine noises :) & currently
> contemplating covering and engine install
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc
> Arseneault
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing plan
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault"
> <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Skystar from what Ihave heardfrom a few people is that they aren't
> responding tomany of therecustomers or potential customers. Some of the
> parts that some of theseguys needwould bereally good sales for them but
> I guess Skystar doesn't need sales to survive anymore. I have tried to
> help Graeme but the plans I sent him are for the speedster wing.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Marc Arseneault
> Ontario Canada
>
> From: "Dee Young" henrysfork1@msn.com Reply-To:
> kitfox-list@matronics.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE:
> Kitfox-List: Wing plan Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:17:54 -0800 --
> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" henrysfork1@msn.com Have you
> tried Skystar, maybe they can help. Dee Young Model II N345DY From:
> "Graeme Toft" msm@byterocky.net Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com To:
> kitfox-lis
> Help protect your entire PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium Get Two
> Months FREE*
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 582 HAC system Install (FOLLOW UP) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Hi Steve,
Mike Jacober's mixture control system used a 10-28 brass screw on the needle to
lean or richen the mixture. It worked very well for me. It is manual, but that
was ok. Over 600 of my Kitfox 582 hours were with Mike's system.
bh
> High Altitude Compensation. The Bing Carb uses an external or internal
> bellows which modulates the jetting automatically. The physics of the system
> should provide infinate modulation...I've never heard of this problem with
> altitude limit. In fact, I've read of the system being used to cross Mt.
> McKinley in a trike. This was accomplished by Mike Jacober. This may have
> been hios own design Arctic Sparrow...BUT our carbs are based on the same
> design I believe.
Message 45
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Two companies come to mind that have good customer support.
1. Van's Aircraft, been around a long time now for experimentals, and
2. Sonex, Ltd., which is new (1998?), and is having trouble keeping up with the
demand. But it's a 4-5 person company with sub-contractors.
Cheers,
bh
> I too am taken aback by Skystars lack of "People" skills. I placed an order
> in Dec. for a spar,Insert,some ribs and 912 motormount parts. Here it's almost
> April and no sign yet. I talked to Dave Yesterday and he said that they were
> waiting on the rubber bushings for the motor mount, so I ask if they could
send
> me what they had? he said he didn't know! This is the guy that runs the parts
> Dept. and He doesn't know?.....Well I know. The Kitfox is an awesome little
> plane and Dan Denny's vision created one of the best kitplanes ever, but down
> right Shitty business practice can kill even the best design. So don't worry
> Skystar you'll be right there with Avid,Piper,Bellanca,and all the others that
> thought the plane will sell itself. They sell something all of us can do
> without, not treating every order like the "Holy Grail" however small is just
plain
> STUPID. I think Dave is a Liar, he doesn't have the order filled minus the
> Bushings or he'd send it and send the bushings when he got them, I mean those
can
> go Priority mail??????? It's just another Stall. I may be totally wrong but
> if they're in business this time next year I will truly be surprised .I'd
just
> like to get the parts I need befor they go Belly Up
> D Cecil
> KF3950
Message 46
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|
| Subject: | Re: Texas Kitfox group/Norm Beauchamp |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Norm Beauchamp <nebchmp@wcc.net>
Herbert,
I remember you. I remember when you first bought your plane. I hope things are
going well for you.
Maybe you are right about the distances. I just thought there would be more interest.
I can't give an estimate on
the number of Kitfoxes and Avids in Texas. But I know there are several.
I'm located in San Angelo, about fifty miles from the geographical center of the
state. Brady claims the title,
along with their annual goat barbecue.
I'm told there were a few Kitfoxes in New Braunfels last year at SWRFI. I didn't
go last year, maybe will this
year. If we both go we may run into each other.
Thanks for the interest. I think I'll just drop the discussion on a Texas Kitfox
gathering. There sure doesn't seem
to be the interest.
Good luck with your project. Take Care. Norm
Herbert Doud wrote: in part
>
> Biggest problem, I guess, is the large distances in our state, making "get togethers"
difficult.
>
> Where are you located? I wonder if there are many Kitfoxes in the Central Texas
area. I live in New Braunfels.
>
> Herbert Doud
Message 47
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| Subject: | Was Quiet (Jabiru 3300) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Gandy" <s.gandy@comcast.net>
Don
What type of cowling did you use in your Classic IV? Are you flying it
now? What rpm are you seeing at take off and cruise? Have you had any
cooling problems?
Do not archive
Steve Gandy
s.gandy@comcast.net
Aeronca L-3C N48540
Kitfox 6 N540KF (Building)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DC91840@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Was Quiet (Jabiru 3300)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: DC91840@aol.com
Steve:
I am going to try a prop with 2"more pitch.
Hoping to get off the ground quicker.
Hope I have enough power to handle it.
Will let you know how it works. It'll be
awhile. Keep flyin.
Don
==
==
==
==
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