---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/02/04: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:13 AM - Re:SkyStar I was happy the one time I needed them (Aerobatics@aol.com) 2. 06:45 AM - Chuck Tippett (Vic Jacko) 3. 01:09 PM - Fuel evaporation (Michel Verheughe) 4. 02:30 PM - Re: Fuel evaporation (Vic Jacko) 5. 02:35 PM - Re: Fuel evaporation (Matt Keyes) 6. 02:54 PM - Re: Fuel evaporation (Scott McClintock) 7. 03:41 PM - Re: Fuel evaporation (Marc Arseneault) 8. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: New Panel (Jim Burke) 9. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: New Panel (Marc Arseneault) 10. 05:17 PM - Kurt Schrader (Howard Firm) 11. 07:41 PM - Re: Carb flange (neflyer48) 12. 07:45 PM - Angle of Attack Gauge (Clem Nichols) 13. 08:14 PM - Re: Angle of Attack Gauge (John E. King) 14. 09:30 PM - Re: Angle of Attack Gauge (RiteAngle3@aol.com) 15. 09:49 PM - Re: Fuel evaporation (jimshumaker) 16. 11:09 PM - Re: Angle of Attack Gauge (kurt schrader) 17. 11:28 PM - Re: Fuel evaporation (kurt schrader) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:16 AM PST US From: Aerobatics@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Re:SkyStar I was happy the one time I needed them --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com First, if Skystar does goes out of business.... we ALL lose. Secondly, while it is important we share the good and bad for our mutual benifit, we need to understand that a few bad experiences broadcasted on the internet may negate many many more good ones. We just need to think carefully before we hit the send button, thats all. If in fact Skystar is having real problems, it must be a monumental task to answer techcalls and so on when bills are past due and what they really needs is sales. There is no easy answer. I have a short strip and one day practicing really short landings, I broke a tail wheel spring on my KF 2. Skystar, in fact never sold the KF 2. A big front was due in a couple days and my plane was stuck on my runway. I was in a panic. They went into the parts bin and found one that should work and they FedXed the leaf spring No Charge. Thats good in my book. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:25 AM PST US From: "Vic Jacko" Subject: Kitfox-List: Chuck Tippett --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" Chuck, would you please contact me off line, Vic do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:09:56 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel evaporation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Hello guys, My Kitfox is hangared most of the time. But last summer, being at another airfield, I noticed that, in the sun, my wings (painted dark blue) get very hot and I could see fuel gas escaping from then vents. Not a big problem but since I mix my two-stroke oil directly in the tanks, I am afraid that if there is much evaporation the 2% mixture will increase as the volatile part of the fuel evaporates. That hot day, I used my sleeping bag as a cooling cover on the wings. But I wish it could be better. One solution would be to paint the surface over the tanks white. Not sure it will be very sexy, though. The only plane I've ever seen like that is an old French Broussard. What do you think? Should I just ignore the evaporation or should I paint it white? Another solution would also to make a special white canvas cover that would stretch from one tank to the other, covering also the top of the cockpit and preventing direct sunlight on the instruments. A penny for your thoughts, friends! :-) Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:30 PM PST US From: "Vic Jacko" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel evaporation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" Michel, your mother tongue is "French" so paint it with the whitest paint you can get? Vic ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel evaporation > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Hello guys, > My Kitfox is hangared most of the time. But last summer, being at another > airfield, I noticed that, in the sun, my wings (painted dark blue) get very hot > and I could see fuel gas escaping from then vents. Not a big problem but since > I mix my two-stroke oil directly in the tanks, I am afraid that if there is > much evaporation the 2% mixture will increase as the volatile part of the fuel > evaporates. That hot day, I used my sleeping bag as a cooling cover on the > wings. But I wish it could be better. One solution would be to paint the > surface over the tanks white. Not sure it will be very sexy, though. The only > plane I've ever seen like that is an old French Broussard. > What do you think? Should I just ignore the evaporation or should I paint it > white? Another solution would also to make a special white canvas cover that > would stretch from one tank to the other, covering also the top of the cockpit > and preventing direct sunlight on the instruments. A penny for your thoughts, > friends! :-) > > Cheers, > Michel > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:27 PM PST US From: Matt Keyes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel evaporation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Keyes Michel, Rather than ruining the paint job on your plane, I would go with plan B. I'm sure there are some commercial products out there. Check Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. Another idea would be to make your own as you suggested. Look for a cloth similar to what car covers are made from. It is light weight, has some UV protection and is water resistant while still allowing some breathing to prevent moisture build up problems if left on for long periods. I use one on my car and it works great at keeping the paint cool. I think most are made from polypropolene with a UV/moisture coating to them. Not sure where you could find it in bulk cloth, but the car covers are cheap and readily available at automotive or department stores here in the states, so you could maybe buy one or two and make them fit. Might be cheaper than commercial aircraft covers of a similar product. As you mentioned, this would also keep your cockpit cooler and protected from the sun. Look into it and let me know how it goes. Matt --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:54:51 PM PST US From: Scott McClintock Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel evaporation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock Michel Verheughe wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > What do you think? Should I just ignore the evaporation or should I paint it > white? Another solution would also to make a special white canvas cover that > would stretch from one tank to the other, covering also the top of the cockpit > and preventing direct sunlight on the instruments. A penny for your thoughts, > friends! :-) > Michel, I had the same problem with fuel burping out of my vents and onto my > wings during hot summer days. I have a four stroke so the oil was not a concern but that fuel on my pretty wings was not only wasteful but potentially dangerous as a fire hazard.(Still haven't kicked the habit, yet) I solved this by attaching hoses to the vent tubes and catching the excess fuel into small one gallon fuel tanks. I was surprised that on especially hot days that the amount caught would come close to filling the containers. As your concern is evaporation, the only suggestion I can offer would be to use a non-vented cap while parked which would be yet one more thing to do before/after T/O or you could try my "cure" with a modification. Maybe if you put a loop or two, three in the hose which would give the vapor a chance to condense? It only takes a few minutes to push these lines on the vent or remove. It certainly is a good way to remind me to stick my finger in the tank to check my fuel level when I do my pre-flight checklist. My Two-Cents Scott in Nome ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:38 PM PST US From: "Marc Arseneault" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel evaporation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" Hi Michel, I agree with Mattbut if you are thinking of painting the fuel tank portions, I would install white vinyl before painting and you could always have a nice design of light colors on it. Possibly the outline of the Kitfox logo colored whatever light color matches your plane on a white background. The cost of doing this would probably run you approx. $100 - $150 US Best Regards, Marc Arseneault Ontario Canada From: Matt Keyes keyesmp@yahoo.com Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel evaporation Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:35:19 -0800 (PST) -- Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Keyes keyesmp@yahoo.com Michel, Rather than ruining the paint job on your plane, I would go with plan B. I'm sure there are some commercial products out there. Check Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. Another idea would be to make your own as you suggested. Look for a cloth similar to what car covers are made from. It is light weight, has some UV protection and is water resistant while still allowing some breathing to prevent moisture build up problems if left on for long periods. I use one on my car and it works great at keeping the paint cool. I think most are made from polypropolene with a UV/moisture coating to them. Not sure where you could f ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:23 PM PST US From: Jim Burke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: New Panel --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke I'm getting ready to remove my panel and panel fuel tank. I then will install a full size panel with a header tank behind the seat. I could use some help making the new aluminum panel ready for painting, (What type of primer) then in choosing the correct paint to insure a lasting finish. All help would be very much appreciated since painting is not my expertise. James E. Burke (N94JE) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:25 PM PST US From: "Marc Arseneault" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: New Panel --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" Hi James, Zinc chromate primerand thentremclad spray paint. This is what I did on mine and got a very nice finish. Best Regards, Marc Arseneault Ontario Canada Help protect your entire PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium Get Two Months FREE* ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:28 PM PST US From: "Howard Firm" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kurt Schrader --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" Would I be able to call you and pick your brain with a few questions about the NSI turbo this weekend or a weekday evening? If so, send your number and a time to call to pianome2@mchsi.com Thanks!! Howard Firm 508 12th St. South Virginia MN 55792 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:27 PM PST US From: "neflyer48" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Carb flange --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "neflyer48" I just cut some 1 1/2" wide bushings from a piece of 2" exhaust pipe to fit into the filters. You can get an exhaust pipe reducer from the auto parts store and cut off what you need . Jerry Kohles ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Fabian" To: Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Carb flange > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" > > What did you use to connect the hose to the filter? Some kind of 2" aluminum > tube? > > That sounds like a great idea. > Thanks > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "neflyer48" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Carb flange > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "neflyer48" > > > > I took the filters off the back of the carbs on my 912 because of the > > extra weight throwing the carbs out of the flanges and the filters not > > staying on the carbs. I used tie wraps to fasten them to the oil tank > > mounting bracket and ran 2" duct hoses from the carbs to the filters. This > > has worked fine and takes the stress off the carb flanges. > > > > Jerry Kohles > > M3 912 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jay Fabian" > > To: "Kitfoxlist" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:00 PM > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Carb flange > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" > > > > > > > > I am doing my annual inspection and found the new service bulletin > about > > the carb flange. I checked it and low and behold it was ripped halfway > > through. I never noticed any high temps or rpm problems on the last few > > flights. I have the carbs supported with the extra springs , and I also > have > > the 5 1/2" offset K+N filters. > > > > > > The filter on that side had hit the motor mount a few times due to had > > starts or stops. > > > Does anyone know where I can get the smaller 2"x 3" carb filters?? I > > cannot find a listing for them anywhere, but have seen them on other > Kitfoxs > > before. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Jay Fabian, 4-1200 912UL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:28 PM PST US From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Kitfox-List: Angle of Attack Gauge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" I've spent a good deal of time recently reading up on various angle-of-attack indicators including the one made by Elbie Mendenhall's company and also a home-built version of the Huntington Lift Reserve Indicator described a few years ago in the Airsoob Yahoo group. I was wondering about how many in the Kitfox group used such a device and how they felt about them. I'm having some trouble with the static side of my airspeed indicator, and recent landings have been pretty much by the seat of my pants. Proponents of the AOA gauges obviously think they are superior in all respects to the airspeed gauge, particularly at the slower approach and landing speeds. I was interested to see if there are any unbiased opinions out there. Thanks for your response. Clem Nichols Kitfox Model IV ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:43 PM PST US From: "John E. King " Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Angle of Attack Gauge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " Clem, I installed the RiteAngle III AOA system on my Series 6 in April 2002 and know of other Kitfox's which have the same system installed. So far I have been very satisfied with the system and it functions as advertised. -- John King Warrenton, VA Clem Nichols wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" > >I've spent a good deal of time recently reading up on various angle-of-attack indicators including the one made by Elbie Mendenhall's company and also a home-built version of the Huntington Lift Reserve Indicator described a few years ago in the Airsoob Yahoo group. I was wondering about how many in the Kitfox group used such a device and how they felt about them. I'm having some trouble with the static side of my airspeed indicator, and recent landings have been pretty much by the seat of my pants. Proponents of the AOA gauges obviously think they are superior in all respects to the airspeed gauge, particularly at the slower approach and landing speeds. I was interested to see if there are any unbiased opinions out there. Thanks for your response. > >Clem Nichols >Kitfox Model IV > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:17 PM PST US From: RiteAngle3@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Angle of Attack Gauge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com Clem, if you have any specific questions on my system let me know off line. riteangle3@aol.com Elbie RiteAngle ~The "Stand Alone AOA System" for Your Safety Outstanding Customer Service is our Motto If you like it let others know If not let me know! EM aviation, LLC Elbie Mendenhall President 13411 NE Prairie Rd Brush Prairie, WA 98606 Phone & Fax 360-260-0772 www.RiteAngle.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:48 PM PST US From: "jimshumaker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel evaporation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" Non-vented fuel caps have more hazards than just forgetting to remove before flight. They can build up enough pressure to rupture a tank. Could they build up enough pressure to force the float bowl valves and cause fuel to flood the engine compartment before flight? Jim Shumaker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott McClintock" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel evaporation > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock > > > Michel Verheughe wrote: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > > What do you think? Should I just ignore the evaporation or should I paint it > > white? Another solution would also to make a special white canvas cover that > > would stretch from one tank to the other, covering also the top of the cockpit > > and preventing direct sunlight on the instruments. A penny for your thoughts, > > friends! :-) > > > Michel, I had the same problem with fuel burping out of my vents and onto my > > wings during hot summer days. > > I have a four stroke so the oil was not a concern but that fuel on my pretty wings > was not only wasteful > but potentially dangerous as a fire hazard.(Still haven't kicked the habit, yet) I > solved this by attaching hoses to the vent tubes and catching the excess fuel into > small one gallon fuel tanks. I was surprised that on especially hot days that the > amount caught would come close to filling the containers. > As your concern is evaporation, the only suggestion I can offer would be to use a > non-vented cap while parked which would be yet one more thing to do before/after > T/O or you could try my "cure" with a modification. Maybe if you put a loop or two, > three in the hose which would give the vapor a chance to condense? It only takes a > few minutes to push these lines on the vent or remove. It certainly is a good way > to remind me to stick my finger in the tank to check my fuel level when I do my > pre-flight checklist. > My Two-Cents > Scott in Nome > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:56 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Angle of Attack Gauge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Clem, I have a RightAngle too. Though I am just at the first third of my testing, I programmed approach and stall angles into it right away. It is my primary approach indicator without regard to weight, and cuts my landing distances down to little float, no bounce, short distances. So far my shortest distance is a 235' landing roll on this last landing in my plane. Less than 10 landings in it so far, so it enhances the learning curve. I also count on it to keep me safe during flight testing. I have done stalls at all flap settings and slow flight with it so far. No surprises and more security. Kurt S. KF-5 --- Clem Nichols wrote:> > I've spent a good deal of time recently reading up > on various angle-of-attack indicators including the > one made by Elbie Mendenhall's company and also a > home-built version of the Huntington Lift Reserve > Indicator described a few years ago in the Airsoob > Yahoo group. I was wondering about how many in the > Kitfox group used such a device and how they felt > about them..... __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:28:02 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel evaporation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Michel, I like the hose idea too. Very light weight and nothing to modify. Just put them on after shutdown and drape them over the leading edge. Pick a bright colored hose for preflight, if you like. Add a collection container if you want to save the environment too. Simple. Kurt S. --- Michel Verheughe wrote:> > Hello guys, > My Kitfox is hangared most of the time. But last > summer, being at another > airfield, I noticed that, in the sun, my wings > (painted dark blue) get very hot > and I could see fuel gas escaping from then vens. > Not a big problem but since > I mix my two-stroke oil directly in the tanks, I am > afraid that if there is > much evaporation the 2% mixture will increase as the > volatile part of the fuel > evaporates. That hot day, I used my sleeping bag as > a cooling cover on the > wings. But I wish it could be better. One solution > would be to paint the > surface over the tanks white. Not sure it will be > very sexy, though. The only > plane I've ever seen like that is an old French > Broussard. > What do you think? Should I just ignore the > evaporation or should I paint it > white? Another solution would also to make a special > white canvas cover that > would stretch from one tank to the other, covering > also the top of the cockpit > and preventing direct sunlight on the instruments. A > penny for your thoughts, > friends! :-) > > Cheers, > Michel __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/