---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/08/04: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:51 AM - EGT Gauge recommendation (Kerry Skyring) 2. 05:13 AM - Re: EGT Gauge recommendation (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 3. 07:26 AM - Re: EGT Gauge recommendation (jeff.hays@aselia.com) 4. 08:08 AM - Fox dimensions (Steve & Bonnie Lorenz) 5. 08:30 AM - Re: EGT Gauge recommendation (Lowell Fitt) 6. 08:48 AM - Re: Fox dimensions (JMCBEAN) 7. 09:54 AM - Re: Fox dimensions (Bruce Lina) 8. 02:43 PM - Ground Handling and tailspring (Dee Young) 9. 02:59 PM - Re: Ground Handling and tailspring (Michel Verheughe) 10. 04:47 PM - Re: Ground Handling and tailspring (neflyer48) 11. 06:21 PM - Re: Fox dimensions (Bob Unternaehrer) 12. 06:46 PM - Transporting Kitfox (Steve & Bonnie Lorenz) 13. 06:50 PM - Re: Fox dimensions (Steve & Bonnie Lorenz) 14. 07:02 PM - Re: Ground Handling speaking of Tires.. (Aerobatics@aol.com) 15. 08:02 PM - To drag or not to drag....... (Jeff Smathers) 16. 10:02 PM - Re: Fox dimensions (kurt schrader) 17. 10:32 PM - Re: To drag or not to drag.......Radiator Scoops (kurt schrader) 18. 10:58 PM - Re: NSI Turbo oil breather (kurt schrader) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:57 AM PST US From: "Kerry Skyring" Subject: Kitfox-List: EGT Gauge recommendation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" We're looking for tips on which EGT gauge to install on an S5 with Rotax 912S. Hoping someone has had good experience and can recommend one that can be bought at Sun-N-Fun. Kerry in Kitfox free Vienna. > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:33 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: EGT Gauge recommendation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com We're looking for tips on which EGT gauge to install on an S5 with Rotax 912S. Hoping someone has had good experience and can recommend one that can be bought at Sun-N-Fun. Kerry in Kitfox free Vienna. IMHO, I recommend the EIS. Not only does it give EGT but several more engine instruments in one package. The best part is the preset limits warning capability. It is always watching the engine when the pilots eyes are off enjoying the scenery. The large warning light can save your bacon. The EIS folks are great to deal with and back their product. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:44 AM PST US From: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: EGT Gauge recommendation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" Hi Kerry - They're basically all the same, just a simple K-Type thermocouple which outputs a small voltage which is then displayed on a gauge as a temperature indication. I have a Westach in N85AE and don't like it because it is to hard to read minor changes on the analog scale. I'm going to put in a digital gauge in it's place. There are a LOT of automotive EGT gauges out there now also, and you can find a lot at http://www.summitracing.com They work exactly the same way as do the aircraft gauges. So don't feel limited to buying an "aircraft" instrument. I think it's a matter of personal preference really, but for myself, I'd opt for a digital readout. Regards, Jeff Original Message: ----------------- From: Kerry Skyring kerryskyring@hotmail.com Subject: Kitfox-List: EGT Gauge recommendation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" We're looking for tips on which EGT gauge to install on an S5 with Rotax 912S. Hoping someone has had good experience and can recommend one that can be bought at Sun-N-Fun. Kerry in Kitfox free Vienna. > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:51 AM PST US From: "Steve & Bonnie Lorenz" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fox dimensions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve & Bonnie Lorenz" For some of you that have folded the wings on a Kitfox 5, what is the overall width dimension? Is a U Haul truck wide enough to transport a Series 5? Are there any other associated hauling in a U Haul truck? I would appreciate your response. DO NOT ARCHIVE Steve ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:01 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: EGT Gauge recommendation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Agree with Jeff on the EGT gauge. It is mostly a personal preference issue with consideration to engine type. The 912 series engines have an altitude compensating carburetor and the gauge in my opinion is just for checking trends as there is really nothing that a pilot can really do while in-flight to change exhaust temps. More complex engines - I mean those with mixture controls and of course the two stroke engines where EGTs can be modified by prop pitch as well as mixture - might need a more precise gauge. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: EGT Gauge recommendation > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" > > > Hi Kerry - > > They're basically all the same, just a simple K-Type thermocouple > which outputs a small voltage which is then displayed on a gauge as a > temperature indication. I have a Westach in N85AE and don't like it > because it is to hard to read minor changes on the analog scale. I'm > going to put in a digital gauge in it's place. > > There are a LOT of automotive EGT gauges out there now also, and you > can find a lot at http://www.summitracing.com They work exactly the > same way as do the aircraft gauges. So don't feel limited to buying > an "aircraft" instrument. > > I think it's a matter of personal preference really, but for myself, > I'd opt for a digital readout. > > Regards, > Jeff > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Kerry Skyring kerryskyring@hotmail.com > Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:51:28 +0200 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: EGT Gauge recommendation > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" > > > We're looking for tips on which EGT gauge to install on an S5 with > Rotax 912S. Hoping someone has had good experience and > can recommend one that can be bought at Sun-N-Fun. > Kerry in Kitfox free Vienna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:29 AM PST US From: "JMCBEAN" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fox dimensions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" Steve, It is typically just under 8 ft if they fold all the way.. some don't. The typical problem is the door opening on most trailers or trucks is less then 8 ft. Hauling long distance with a U-haul can be rough simply because the suspension is designed for a heavier load. That being said there are not a lot of other options.. unless you can find a light duty trailer. I would recommend removing the wings. Blue Skies!! John & Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve & Bonnie Lorenz Subject: Kitfox-List: Fox dimensions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve & Bonnie Lorenz" For some of you that have folded the wings on a Kitfox 5, what is the overall width dimension? Is a U Haul truck wide enough to transport a Series 5? Are there any other associated hauling in a U Haul truck? I would appreciate your response. DO NOT ARCHIVE Steve ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:52 AM PST US From: "Bruce Lina" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fox dimensions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Lina" Steve, I was thinking about an enclosed trailer for my recently completed Series 5 , however I found that there was nothing available that would be wide enough to fit the plane. With my wings folded I am just over 8 ft at the widest point. My shop door is a 9' wide garage door and the plane barely fits through it (maybe 3 to 4 " on each side that disappears fast when trying to manuver a plane through it. I ended up designing and having a custom trailer built to haul it. If this is a move over a long haul, I would go with John's recommendation and remove the wings. Bruce Lina ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve & Bonnie Lorenz" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fox dimensions > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve & Bonnie Lorenz" > > For some of you that have folded the wings on a Kitfox 5, what is the overall width dimension? Is a U Haul truck wide enough to transport a Series 5? Are there any other associated hauling in a U Haul truck? I would appreciate your response. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Steve > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:39 PM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling and tailspring --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" In my experiance "over inflation" of the tires on the main gear will result in ground handling difficulty. If the tires are inflated to around 8 to 10lbs. the ground handling is real good. I would strongly recommend anyone having ground handling problems check the tire pressure. Dee Young Model II N345DY >From: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" >Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: tailspring >Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:30:33 -0400 > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" > > > >I'd agree with Darrel on this, my series 5 track's perfectly straight >and is just right as far as sensitivity goes. I did get to "try" taxiing >Ron Liebmann's early model Kitfox, and only Ron's fast feet kept us on the >taxiway ... I think in this case the ratio of tailwheel to rudder was >much faster than I'm used to. > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: Fox5flyer morid@northland.lib.mi.us >Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 15:18:33 -0400 >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: tailspring > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > >I did. I used the Grove tailwheel spring that sets the tailwheel about 2" >farther aft. I didn't do it for ground handling, but for cg >considerations. >Every little bit helps. As for ground handling, if the kitfox is set up >geometricly correct (main gear being neutral) it should track straight as >an >arrow. >Darrel > > > > Builders, > > I forgot to include a third question in my last e-mail. Since I >have >to get a tailspring, I was wondering if anyone has tried a longer one to >increase the wheel base? If so, did it seem to help the ground handling? > > Bill > > > > do not archive > > > > > > Tax headache? MSN Money provides relief with tax tips, tools, IRS forms and more! http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/workshop/welcome.asp ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:43 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling and tailspring --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Dee Young wrote: > In my experiance "over inflation" of the tires on the main gear will result > in ground handling difficulty. If the tires are inflated to around 8 to > 10lbs. the ground handling is real good. I would strongly recommend anyone > having ground handling problems check the tire pressure. I remember reading this advice last year, Dee. I keep my tyres to 8 lbs and I have no problems handling my Kitfox on asphalt. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:21 PM PST US From: "neflyer48" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling and tailspring --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "neflyer48" I keep at least 15PSI pressure in my tires after sheering off my valve stems from the tires slipping on the rims. Too low of pressure can cause problems too. Jerry Kohles Nebraska M3 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" To: Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 4:50 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling and tailspring > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Dee Young wrote: > > In my experiance "over inflation" of the tires on the main gear will result > > in ground handling difficulty. If the tires are inflated to around 8 to > > 10lbs. the ground handling is real good. I would strongly recommend anyone > > having ground handling problems check the tire pressure. > > I remember reading this advice last year, Dee. I keep my tyres to 8 lbs and I > have no problems handling my Kitfox on asphalt. > > Cheers, > Michel > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:39 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fox dimensions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" Don't know how much difference there is between a 4 and 5, but I have hauled my 4 several times with the wings folded and braced, doors and turtle deck off, controls locked etc on a open "lawn Mower" type tilting trailer that is about 8' x 12'. I simply straped the landing gear to the front of trailer and the tailwheel spring fit exactly on the tailgate which I wired to the tailgate thru the hole in the fulelage immediately above the tailwheel spring. Yours might be a nosedragger so might not work. The single axel, large wheel (850x15) rides smooth and don't see any ill effects from hauling it open that way. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Lina" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fox dimensions > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Lina" > > Steve, I was thinking about an enclosed trailer for my recently completed > Series 5 , however I found that there was nothing available that would be > wide enough to fit the plane. With my wings folded I am just over 8 ft at > the widest point. My shop door is a 9' wide garage door and the plane barely > fits through it (maybe 3 to 4 " on each side that disappears fast when > trying to manuver a plane through it. I ended up designing and having a > custom trailer built to haul it. If this is a move over a long haul, I would > go with John's recommendation and remove the wings. Bruce Lina > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve & Bonnie Lorenz" > To: "LIST KITFOX" > Subject: Kitfox-List: Fox dimensions > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve & Bonnie Lorenz" > > > > > For some of you that have folded the wings on a Kitfox 5, what is the > overall width dimension? Is a U Haul truck wide enough to transport a > Series 5? Are there any other associated hauling in a U Haul truck? I would > appreciate your response. > > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > Steve > > > > > > > --- > > --- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:24 PM PST US From: "Steve & Bonnie Lorenz" Subject: Kitfox-List: Transporting Kitfox --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve & Bonnie Lorenz" Thanks to John McBean and Bruce Lina for your immediate responses regarding hauling a Kitfox in a U-haul type truck. Steve DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:37 PM PST US From: "Steve & Bonnie Lorenz" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fox dimensions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve & Bonnie Lorenz" Thanks for the advise Bob. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fox dimensions > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" > > Don't know how much difference there is between a 4 and 5, but I have hauled > my 4 several times with the wings folded and braced, doors and turtle deck > off, controls locked etc on a open "lawn Mower" type tilting trailer that is > about 8' x 12'. I simply straped the landing gear to the front of trailer > and the tailwheel spring fit exactly on the tailgate which I wired to the > tailgate thru the hole in the fulelage immediately above the tailwheel > spring. Yours might be a nosedragger so might not work. The single axel, > large wheel (850x15) rides smooth and don't see any ill effects from hauling > it open that way. Bob U. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:25 PM PST US From: Aerobatics@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Ground Handling speaking of Tires.. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com I know this was dicussed B4 ...but where do you get replacements? I have a KF 2 582 with a smooth tundra tire.... original I believe Thanks! Dave ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:24 PM PST US From: Jeff Smathers Subject: Kitfox-List: To drag or not to drag....... --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jeff Smathers Hi all, What is the approximate speed consequence of leaving my Kitfox 5 water radiator 6" x 24" x 5" for my NSI Subaru EA-81 out in the slip stream uncowled? Right now I am getting about 75-80 kts at cruise, and was expecting more..... I figured about 5 - 7 Hp is being consumed with an estimated drag coeffecient of 1.3 to 1.5 at 75kts. am I close? I know some of you have cowled yours in. Thanks, Jeff Smathers ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:55 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fox dimensions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Steve, I carried my S-5 on a U-Haul once, but I removed the wings and horizontal tail first. I think the H tail is 8' wide by itself, depending on how you do the tips. The biggest truck's door sill was wide enough, but when I went to pick it up, they had not held it for me and rented it out already not honering my reservation. They only had the next smaller truck available. I have the Grove gear and had to strap it together a few inches to get the axles to clear the smaller door sill. Folded wings and tail plane would not have fit. I built some strong ramps for the mains and used their ramp for the tailwheel. It rode OK, but the truck was rough. Still, I liked it better than out in the open. I would not suggest keeping the wings on unless you have them supported very well and no fuel in them. Kurt S. --- Steve & Bonnie Lorenz wrote: > > For some of you that have folded the wings on a > Kitfox 5, what is the overall width dimension? Is a > U Haul truck wide enough to transport a Series 5? > Are there any other associated hauling in a U Haul > truck? I would appreciate your response. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Steve __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:16 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: To drag or not to drag.......Radiator Scoops --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Hi Jeff, You are just a little ahead of me on this. I am roughing out a scoop for my S-5 radiator right now, but it will be at least a month before I can fly it again and post results. Too many irons in th fire right now. Some have had no noticable speed gain from their radiator scoops. I think it is because there is no extention of the scoop behind their radiators leaving that rear air still disturbed. I would think that you should get 5-10 kts from a good scoop design and better cooling in flight, but I haven't done the math or tested it yet. The thing is just a big speed brake down there now and the air would rather go around it in a big wave than thru it. It rates about 1 sq ft of flat plate area, but more due to the fuselage interference above. My radiator hangs entirely below the cowl. Yours might be half covered by the rear cowl area and not be as draggy. Results may vary. Right now my S-5 cruises at about 80 knots at 6 gph and tops out at 95 kts. With scoop, wing strut fairings and other smaller fairings, I hope to see 100 kts (115 mph) at 6 gph. It's a goal... Kurt S. --- Jeff Smathers wrote: > > Hi all, > > What is the approximate speed consequence of leaving > my Kitfox 5 > water radiator 6" x 24" x 5" for my NSI Subaru > EA-81 out in the > slip stream uncowled? Right now I am getting about > 75-80 kts at cruise, and was expecting more..... > > I figured about 5 - 7 Hp is being consumed with an > estimated drag > coeffecient of 1.3 to 1.5 at 75kts. am I close? > > I know some of you have cowled yours in. > > Thanks, Jeff Smathers __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:48 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Turbo oil breather --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader For the Soob guys, I have the NSI Turbo EA-81. I took my oil pan off for the first time today in conjunction with an oil change in order to see how I could reduce or eliminate that oil burping thru the breather problem. (I recogize that Lyc/Cont have the same problem to some extent, but thought that there had to be a better way.) The problem is relieving the air pressure without losing oil. Lance said that I could move the breather line to the front of the pan, so I looked at that option. Then I noticed that the dipstick's full mark is well above the pan's top lip. Don't know how far the oil level drops with the engine running, but the current breather line looks like it will always be below the top of the oil anytime except nose down, or more than a quart low. Looking at the front of the pan to see if there was a way to get the breather above the oil level, I noticed that there already was a second opening there that was well above the oil full line - the dip stick hole/pipe! If the dipstick did not plug the line, the oilpan could breathe thru this hole. That opens several options.... Anyone tried this idea yet? I am awaiting a return call from Lance on whether this 1/4" hole is large enough to handle the airflow. Since the crankshaft is not open to the oil pan, the airflow may be small enough to make this work. My cockpit mounted breather trials earlier this year seem to indicate a small airflow indeed. The fix could be fairly simple and light weight. Comments/ideas anyone? Kurt S. __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/