Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:34 AM - Re: Air Speed (Michael Gibbs)
2. 01:25 AM - Re: Re: Air Speed (michel)
3. 02:43 AM - Re: Important approach distance? (michel)
4. 04:43 AM - Exhaust gas temp (Clem Nichols)
5. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: Air Speed (Lowell Fitt)
6. 06:56 AM - Re: Exhaust gas temp (Rick)
7. 07:08 AM - Re: NSI Turbo oil breather (Rick)
8. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Important approach distance? (Rick)
9. 07:30 AM - Re: Re: Air Speed (michel)
10. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: Air Speed (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
11. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: Air Speed (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
12. 10:28 AM - History of Navigation (Scott McClintock)
13. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: Air Speed (Scott McClintock)
14. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: Air Speed (Paul Seehafer)
15. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: Air Speed (Paul Seehafer)
16. 10:47 AM - Side-slip technique. WAS: Important approach distance? (Michel Verheughe)
17. 10:55 AM - The narrowing of the longitudes. WAS: Air Speed (Michel Verheughe)
18. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: Air Speed (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
19. 11:53 AM - Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc (daniel johnson)
20. 11:57 AM - Sideslip question Re: Side-slip technique. WAS: (Harris, Robert)
21. 12:10 PM - Re: Side-slip technique. WAS: Important approach distance? (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
22. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: Air Speed (Michel Verheughe)
23. 12:29 PM - Re: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc (Harris, Robert)
24. 12:32 PM - Re: Sideslip question (Michel Verheughe)
25. 12:59 PM - Re: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc (Michel Verheughe)
26. 01:25 PM - Re: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc (Gary Algate)
27. 01:29 PM - Re: Re: Sideslip question (Harris, Robert)
28. 01:46 PM - Re: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc (daniel johnson)
29. 01:48 PM - Crosswind limits (Harris, Robert)
30. 02:02 PM - Re: History of Navigation (Michel Verheughe)
31. 02:04 PM - Gary? harmonic vibration E: Setup (Harris, Robert)
32. 02:05 PM - Re: Side-slip technique (Michel Verheughe)
33. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: Sideslip question (Gary Algate)
34. 02:24 PM - Re: Gary? harmonic vibration E: Setup comparison..mod3/5 82/gsc (Gary Algate)
35. 02:54 PM - Re: Crosswind limits (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
36. 02:56 PM - Re: Side-slip technique (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
37. 03:38 PM - History of Navigation (reprised) (Scott McClintock)
38. 04:24 PM - Elbie's Rite Angle (Scott McClintock)
39. 05:51 PM - Re: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc (daniel johnson)
40. 05:56 PM - Re: Crosswind limits (daniel johnson)
41. 06:38 PM - Re: Crosswind limits (Rick)
42. 06:53 PM - Re: Crosswind limits (daniel johnson)
43. 08:48 PM - Re: Re: Air Speed (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
44. 09:20 PM - Re: Re: Air Speed (JMCBEAN)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
Kurt sez:
>Mach??? That would be about .152 Mach by my calc.
Oooooh, I like it! :-)
Mike G.
Do not archive
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>===== Original Message From "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>My Certified 1964 vintage Lake Amphibian I fly came right from the factory
>with airspeed in miles per hour
Yes Paul but you understand that your US mile is taken from the British mile
and not necessarily univeral. As an example, the Norwegian mile is 10 km. The
only system that is univeral is the metric one. Things are changing. Our
British friends lost their Shillings, the French, their Francs, the weatherman
talks now about hectoPascals and winds in meter/second.
But the knot, being a nautical mile per hour, is also a minute of latitude per
hour. Hence its handy function as maps are still in latitude, longitude. If we
change that, we may as well change our 60 minutes in a degree and 360 degrees
in a circle. Which, incidentally we adopted from the Babylonians (today, the
Iraqui) who made the degree the Right Ascension (the displacement of the sun
in relation to the background stars, per day). Meanwhile, the French
revolution tried to adopt the 400 degrees circle and Paris as the prime
meridian. But ... old habits are hard to die.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: Important approach distance? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>===== Original Message From kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> =====
>Let's hear from those who have flown KF's for a long time and are
>short field experts.
Thanks for this very interesting expos, Kurt. I am a novice and fly from a
long field but here is my experience:
I always come on final too high. I never use flaps. I always do the final
adjusting my sink rate with side slips. I just love side slips and my Kitfox
seems to love it too. One side, then the other. Furthermore, it is good
training for the time I will meet crosswind. Since it is uncoordinated, I make
sure my speed stays between 60 and 70 MPH. With the rudder fully pressed, I
sink at 1,000 fpm. The only time I don't do that is with first-time
passengers. They don't like the sideway feeling of uncoordinate flight.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Exhaust gas temp |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
The check list that came with my Subaru EA81 equipped Kitfox says that before takeoff
I should lean the fuel mixture about one inch. This allows the exhaust
gas temps to hover just at the red line on climb out, which can't be good for
the exhaust valves or anything else in my opinion. On planes with conventional
engines I was told to leave the mixture full rich until I had reached cruise
altitude and speed. Does anyone know of any reason why the mixture in the Subaru
(using an Ellison TBI instead of a carb) should be leaned out any at all
before takeoff?
Clem Nichols
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Michel said in part:
> But the knot, being a nautical mile per hour, is also a minute of latitude
per
> hour. Hence its handy function as maps are still in latitude, longitude.
Gee, does that man when you guys up North who are going one knot - one
minute of latitude per hour - you are in slow motion?
I agree that if you are sailing on the equator it might come in handy when
navigating, but in Norway?
Lowell
Message 6
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| Subject: | Exhaust gas temp |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Clem, go with your own numbers and lean accordingly. Pretend your at a high
density altitude airport. Don't know where the one inch came from unless
that was to attempt lean of peak. I can tell you this, when I finish my new
engine it will never see over 1450, not even on take off. I will adjust
accordingly. Stay the !@#$ away from redline EGTs.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clem Nichols
Subject: Kitfox-List: Exhaust gas temp
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
The check list that came with my Subaru EA81 equipped Kitfox says that
before takeoff I should lean the fuel mixture about one inch. This allows
the exhaust gas temps to hover just at the red line on climb out, which
can't be good for the exhaust valves or anything else in my opinion. On
planes with conventional engines I was told to leave the mixture full rich
until I had reached cruise altitude and speed. Does anyone know of any
reason why the mixture in the Subaru (using an Ellison TBI instead of a
carb) should be leaned out any at all before takeoff?
Clem Nichols
Message 7
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| Subject: | NSI Turbo oil breather |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Turbo oil breather
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
I'll have to answer more later. ..............
I don't remember you saying what happened when the
valve went. In flight? New engine? That bad?
Response
Yes, on take off about 150 feet, valve went. Do not run at 1600, IMHO. I
would show you pictures but no sense making you sick. Building new engine
and even though it is not directly NSIs fault, they have been very helpful.
My new heads have SS valves and the valves are ceramic coated. If you get
yours done have the combustion chamber done as well before the valve job.
Rick
If I remember correctly, Lance said that the valves
should be good to around 1600 and the heads over 1700
before cracking. He thinks we are running them too
hot and don't know it. He is really against turning
the fuel pump off. But he really liked the SS valve
idea.
Kurt S.
__________________________________
Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: Important approach distance? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Mike you can get 2000FPM sink, ears hurt though :)
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of michel
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Important approach distance?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>===== Original Message From kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
=====
>Let's hear from those who have flown KF's for a long time and are
>short field experts.
Thanks for this very interesting expos, Kurt. I am a novice and fly from a
long field but here is my experience:
I always come on final too high. I never use flaps. I always do the final
adjusting my sink rate with side slips. I just love side slips and my Kitfox
seems to love it too. One side, then the other. Furthermore, it is good
training for the time I will meet crosswind. Since it is uncoordinated, I
make
sure my speed stays between 60 and 70 MPH. With the rudder fully pressed, I
sink at 1,000 fpm. The only time I don't do that is with first-time
passengers. They don't like the sideway feeling of uncoordinate flight.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>===== Original Message From "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>I agree that if you are sailing on the equator it might come in handy when
>navigating, but in Norway?
Since the Babylonians, Lowell, it has been logical to measure distances in
degrees of the circle since you can directly translate an elevation (e.g. the
Northern Star) to a line of position. When we do modern astro-navigation, we
still have to translate this into a distance. That's why airmen, who were
still using the bubble sextant in the 50s and early 60s, used Mercator
projection maps. But those have progressive scales, i.e. it varies with
latitude. The navigator then uses the latitude scale closest to his latitude
to measure distances. Hence the use of the nautical mile. In Norway, or
elsewhere on earth, except the equator, as you say, to translate to a
longitude, you have to multiply by the cosine of the latitude. Here where I
live, near Oslo, it is quite convenient because the cosine of 60 degrees (my
latitude) is 0.5 and the minute of longitude is exactly half a nautical mile.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive ... unless you are interested in the history of navigation! :-)
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
In a message dated 4/14/04 7:31:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, michel@online.no
writes:
Here where I
live, near Oslo, it is quite convenient because the cosine of 60 degrees (my
latitude) is 0.5 and the minute of longitude is exactly half a nautical mile.
Michel,
Does that mean your Fox goes twice as fast over a mile as one at the equator
:-) Are the "section lines" closer together? :-) This old farmboy would get
lost for sure if the roads weren't a mile apart!
Elbie
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
Kurt sez:
>Mach??? That would be about .152 Mach by my calc.
How much temp rise did you plan on Kurt? Whoops, he is enjoying Sun n Fun
now can't pick on him!
Elbie
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 12
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| Subject: | History of Navigation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
Well, well, well!
Michel, my kindred Brother... shall we speak of common interests?
I'd just love to spark a long discussion about geodesy and celestial
navigation.
I have a real nice K&E sextant which I used to use for determining
Lat/Long for initial survey points which I would in turn convert to
State Plane Coordinates. This was before the advent of GPS. I have a
Solar Prism attachment for my Wild T-1 for determining meridian.
Yes, I am a Cadastral Surveyor (not many these days) and I speak geodesy
fluently.
Contact me off list if you want to accept the challenge :-o
Scott in Nome
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
Elbie,
In my 33 years as a LS, I have yet to see a "standard" section (5280' x 5280' in
US feet)
No wonder you think you're going faster than you actually are, counting the short
sections?
Europe does not have a Rectangular System like (most of) the US has. (see my post
to Michel)
Scott in Nome
DO NOT ARCHIVE
RiteAngle3@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 4/14/04 7:31:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, michel@online.no
> writes:
> Here where I
> live, near Oslo, it is quite convenient because the cosine of 60 degrees (my
> latitude) is 0.5 and the minute of longitude is exactly half a nautical mile.
> Michel,
> Does that mean your Fox goes twice as fast over a mile as one at the equator
> :-) Are the "section lines" closer together? :-) This old farmboy would get
> lost for sure if the roads weren't a mile apart!
>
> Elbie
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Wow!! We have some really smart guys hanging around this list.
Great information. But I think I am going to rely on my GPS and my roadmaps
(yes, I have a sectional too). All that latitude and longitude stuff
doesn't apply when I rarely go more than an hour or two from home anyhow.
But... if I ever decide to fly accross the big pond you can bet I'm going to
brush up on my lats and lons. :-)
Paul Seehafer
Do Not Archive
> Yes Paul but you understand that your US mile is taken from the British
mile
> and not necessarily univeral. As an example, the Norwegian mile is 10 km.
The
> only system that is univeral is the metric one. Things are changing. Our
> British friends lost their Shillings, the French, their Francs, the
weatherman
> talks now about hectoPascals and winds in meter/second.
>
> But the knot, being a nautical mile per hour, is also a minute of latitude
per
> hour. Hence its handy function as maps are still in latitude, longitude.
If we
> change that, we may as well change our 60 minutes in a degree and 360
degrees
> in a circle. Which, incidentally we adopted from the Babylonians (today,
the
> Iraqui) who made the degree the Right Ascension (the displacement of the
sun
> in relation to the background stars, per day). Meanwhile, the French
> revolution tried to adopt the 400 degrees circle and Paris as the prime
> meridian. But ... old habits are hard to die.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Yes! This would work well. Wouldn't it? Now I know I need that calculator
in my panel.
But I have to admit, when us Kitfoxers start talking mach numbers when we're
together in a group, even the RV guys are going to be jealous....
Paul Seehafer
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Air Speed
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Paul,
>
> Mach??? That would be about .152 Mach by my calc.
>
> Comes in around 1 Standard Farve unit or just short of
> a full Lombardi, as we all are. A Lombardi always
> being what you did at 100%, and just a little bit
> more.
>
> You could use .82 times 10 to the minus 27 power
> sublight speed, but I might be off on that last digit.
>
> Do not archive
>
> Kurt S.
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Side-slip technique. WAS: Important approach distance? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Rick wrote:
> Mike you can get 2000FPM sink, ears hurt though :)
How do I do that, Rick? Right now, I have a pedal fully depressed and keep the
heading by banking more or less with the flaperons. Why would I want to go down
2,000 fpm? Well ... where I live we have a lot of forests with here and there a
small corn field. If my engine stops, it might be better to aim for what is
closest to me and maybe better to loose altitude by hard side-slipping, than a
three-sixty.
I guess increasing my IAS will increase my vertical speed too but is it safe to
come close to Vne on a side-slip? What do you think, guys?
Cheers,
Michel
PS: If my engine stops, I won't mind the ear ache! :-)
Message 17
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| Subject: | The narrowing of the longitudes. WAS: Air Speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
RiteAngle3@aol.com wrote:
> Does that mean your Fox goes twice as fast over a mile as one at the equator
> :-)
Yep, and that's why we fly mostly along the east-west axis, to save fuel! :-)
Seriously, the narrowing of the longitudes was discovered by the Portuguese in
the 15th century by observing that, when sailing say a week north then a week
east, you didn't come to the same place as if you were sailing a week east,
then a week north. In those days, they were sailing the Atlantic across "their"
islands, Acores, Cape Verde, Canaries and Madeira.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
You guys are all crazy! If you really want to talk about simplifying
the airspeed system in the Kitfox, I propose using the Beufort scale.
http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scales/beaufort.html This makes
everything much simpler.
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Paul Seehafer av8rps@tznet.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Air Speed
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Wow!! We have some really smart guys hanging around this list.
Great information. But I think I am going to rely on my GPS and my roadmaps
(yes, I have a sectional too). All that latitude and longitude stuff
doesn't apply when I rarely go more than an hour or two from home anyhow.
But... if I ever decide to fly accross the big pond you can bet I'm going to
brush up on my lats and lons. :-)
Paul Seehafer
Do Not Archive
> Yes Paul but you understand that your US mile is taken from the British
mile
> and not necessarily univeral. As an example, the Norwegian mile is 10 km.
The
> only system that is univeral is the metric one. Things are changing. Our
> British friends lost their Shillings, the French, their Francs, the
weatherman
> talks now about hectoPascals and winds in meter/second.
>
> But the knot, being a nautical mile per hour, is also a minute of latitude
per
> hour. Hence its handy function as maps are still in latitude, longitude.
If we
> change that, we may as well change our 60 minutes in a degree and 360
degrees
> in a circle. Which, incidentally we adopted from the Babylonians (today,
the
> Iraqui) who made the degree the Right Ascension (the displacement of the
sun
> in relation to the background stars, per day). Meanwhile, the French
> revolution tried to adopt the 400 degrees circle and Paris as the prime
> meridian. But ... old habits are hard to die.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je@hotmail.com>
HI All.
I've been flying my kitfox 3/582 for about 50 hours now since i've owned
it....and haven't really run into any problems. I've started to try to fine
tune things a little bit...I'm just wondering what other airframes...2's or
3's are normally cruising at....a normal (no wind) grounspeed is what i'm
really looking for.
I've been changing around the pitch on my GSC to experiment. I just brought
the pitch all the way up to about 19 degrees, which i thought would be a
little too aggressive....but it seems like it really didn't lower the
takeoff performance which has been awesome and i can still acheive high RPM
level. It seems like this kitfox handles best at around 65-70 mph cruise.
It will definitely go faster, but i'm not really sold on the flapperon trim
system. It seems like if i'm going faster, i'm needing forward stick to
hold level (adding flaps seems like it also adds lift and requires more
forward pitch to compenste..which i see as a dog chasing his tail )and then
i can notice the difference in RPM and CHT rise and the ride is rougher.
I've been flying around with my baggage pod on during all this so i'll have
to take it off to get some real #'s to see how my speed compares.
I think the plane is running pretty standard temps and speeds with the
exception of my fiddling with the pitch and bag pod, i just was curious what
setup others are using with the same airframe/gsc prop/ and 582 engine.
That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC prop...will
you report the following.
(Normal Cruise RPM) at (what pitch) resulting in (what grounspeed, no wind)
at (what CHT)
Just thought i'd see how i'm comparing and maybe make some changes if i hear
something i like better...
Thanks, Dan Johnson.
Columbus Ohio
Message 20
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| Subject: | Side-slip technique. WAS: |
Imp ortant approach distance?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
When you do your side-slip are your wings tilted or do you keep them level?
Is banking the same as tilted? Are your wings at 45 degree angle or more to
the horizon? When I was doing extreme side slips my wings were at 45 degrees
at times. Am I doing this correct? It sure is fun.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Subject: Kitfox-List: Side-slip technique. WAS: Important approach distance?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Rick wrote:
> Mike you can get 2000FPM sink, ears hurt though :)
How do I do that, Rick? Right now, I have a pedal fully depressed and keep
the
heading by banking more or less with the flaperons. Why would I want to go
down
2,000 fpm? Well ... where I live we have a lot of forests with here and
there a
small corn field. If my engine stops, it might be better to aim for what is
closest to me and maybe better to loose altitude by hard side-slipping, than
a three-sixty.
I guess increasing my IAS will increase my vertical speed too but is it safe
to
come close to Vne on a side-slip? What do you think, guys?
Cheers,
Michel
PS: If my engine stops, I won't mind the ear ache! :-)
Message 21
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| Subject: | Side-slip technique. WAS: Important approach distance? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
You can increase sink two ways in a Kitfox slip: Aim the nose down and
go fast, or pull back and slow down. I can do very steep slips with slow
speed in mine. I practiced at altitude doing a power off slip, and pulling
back until the onset of a stall. In my plane the airflow buffets the heck
out of the turtledeck (built in cross control stall warning). Relaxing the
controls immediately brings the plane out of the buffeting. Having an
AOA system is again, very usefull.
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Michel Verheughe michel@online.no
Subject: Kitfox-List: Side-slip technique. WAS: Important approach distance?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Rick wrote:
> Mike you can get 2000FPM sink, ears hurt though :)
How do I do that, Rick? Right now, I have a pedal fully depressed and keep
the
heading by banking more or less with the flaperons. Why would I want to go
down
2,000 fpm? Well ... where I live we have a lot of forests with here and
there a
small corn field. If my engine stops, it might be better to aim for what is
closest to me and maybe better to loose altitude by hard side-slipping,
than a three-sixty.
I guess increasing my IAS will increase my vertical speed too but is it
safe to
come close to Vne on a side-slip? What do you think, guys?
Cheers,
Michel
PS: If my engine stops, I won't mind the ear ache! :-)
Message 22
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Paul, I agree, the GPS is the greatest gift from the American tax-payers to the
world. It is here to stay (complemented soon by the European Galileo
satellites) and old navigation stuff will only be rambling from old farts like
me and Scott. :-)
Jeff, as a sailor, I'd be very pleased to use only the Beaufort scale. It uses
observation to evaluate the strenght of the wind. On the five boats I have
owned in my life, I never had a wind measuring instrument. Instead, I use my
"simplified Beaufort scale," which is:
The wind is 1) not enough 2) enough or 3) too much! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Dan what is your 582 water temp in Ferinheit? Mine was getting up to 180
degrees but it was 100 degrees outside. I hope I can cool this thing down
more. I was burning 100LL aviation fuel and was told by some that it should
run cooler with this and other say it will run hotter with 100ll. Do you
know anything about this?
I have a kitfox 2/582 bluehead and the maneuver speed is 75 and cruise speed
is 85 MPH with an inflight adustible IVHO prop. I have not played with the
prop yet because I'm still learning to fly the plane. I just set it to 6200
static RPM on the ground and leave it for now. Soon I'll start to play with
it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of daniel johnson
Subject: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je@hotmail.com>
HI All.
I've been flying my kitfox 3/582 for about 50 hours now since i've owned
it....and haven't really run into any problems. I've started to try to fine
tune things a little bit...I'm just wondering what other airframes...2's or
3's are normally cruising at....a normal (no wind) grounspeed is what i'm
really looking for.
I've been changing around the pitch on my GSC to experiment. I just brought
the pitch all the way up to about 19 degrees, which i thought would be a
little too aggressive....but it seems like it really didn't lower the
takeoff performance which has been awesome and i can still acheive high RPM
level. It seems like this kitfox handles best at around 65-70 mph cruise.
It will definitely go faster, but i'm not really sold on the flapperon trim
system. It seems like if i'm going faster, i'm needing forward stick to
hold level (adding flaps seems like it also adds lift and requires more
forward pitch to compenste..which i see as a dog chasing his tail )and then
i can notice the difference in RPM and CHT rise and the ride is rougher.
I've been flying around with my baggage pod on during all this so i'll have
to take it off to get some real #'s to see how my speed compares.
I think the plane is running pretty standard temps and speeds with the
exception of my fiddling with the pitch and bag pod, i just was curious what
setup others are using with the same airframe/gsc prop/ and 582 engine.
That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC prop...will
you report the following.
(Normal Cruise RPM) at (what pitch) resulting in (what grounspeed, no wind)
at (what CHT)
Just thought i'd see how i'm comparing and maybe make some changes if i hear
something i like better...
Thanks, Dan Johnson.
Columbus Ohio
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Sideslip question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
"Harris, Robert" wrote:
> When you do your side-slip are your wings tilted or do you keep them level?
> Is banking the same as tilted? Are your wings at 45 degree angle or more to
> the horizon? When I was doing extreme side slips my wings were at 45 degrees
> at times. Am I doing this correct? It sure is fun.
When I do my side-slip, Robert, it is to loose altitude without gaining speed.
Because seating on the left, a left bank and right pedal is the most common
because it gives me the best view on the runway. But I also practice the other
way around. With the pedal fully pressed, I need to bank about 30 degrees to
stay on the same heading. If I bank more, I'll turn in that direction. I have
tried flat side-slip years ago, with a glider. But then, you need to swing one
side, a few seconds, then the other, and so on. Otherwise you don't stay on
your heading.
Still, I don't know how I could sink 2,000 fpm in a side-slip. Maybe if I was
gap-sealing my rudder. What do you think?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
daniel johnson wrote:
> That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC prop...will
> you report the following.
Hello Dan. I too have a Kitfox 3 with a 582, GSC prop, about 50 hours
experience with no previous one, except my training in a Sky Arrow. I can't
give you very accurate figures because when I fly I have either a talkative
passenger, a bumpy ride or simply ... I am not good at keeping records.
But, in general, I fly at around 5,600 RPM, which gives me about 80 MPH. I have
measured my GSC pitch to be 14 degrees at 75% of the radius. I don't have a CHT
and I can't give you a figure there. Only a dual EGT that stays under 1,200 F.
Water temps varies from summer to winter, of course, but is seldom over 160 F,
except on extended climb on a hot day.
My flaps are limited to max 10 degrees. I never use them because I haven't been
yet on a long flight in smooth air. Each time I fly to another place, it is
during mid-day and thermal parcels keep me working the stick all the time.
Sometimes I take a passenger for a short trip, before sunset, when it is smooth
and comfortable, but then, no time for trimming my pitch with the flaperons.
But I have tried it, of course. And yes, it increases the lift. You can feel it
by the drop down as you remove it. It also pitches the nose down and I see how
I could use it to keep me from a stick pressure on long distance. But it hasn't
happened yet.
Monday, I flew about one hour to the nearby Notodden ENNO airfield with my son.
The sun is still low over Norway but it was enough heat generated to see me
going up over 1,000 fpm in the thermals. If I want then to keep level, I need
to reduce the throttle and nose down. But then I see that my mixture gets lean
and the EGT goes up. The ASI goes up and down and it's difficult to get an
average reading. Sometimes a wing is lifted. That's when the glider pilot
decide to turn into the "elevator." I tried once but was out of it pretty soon.
Glider pilots know where to pick their "elevators." Where I live, we have to
watch for seagull circling. If we see vultures circling ... it's bad news! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Message 26
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| Subject: | Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Re 582 set up.
I have the Lite2 (Model 4) with Bluehead 582 and In Flight Adjustable 2
bladed Medium Ivoprop. I initially had the three blade Ultralight IFA IVO
but I had continual problems with the electric motor due to harmonic
vibration caused by the 3:1 ratio of the C box coupled with 3 bladed prop. I
found out after the fact that IVO don't recommend this combination.
As my pitch changes my speeds may not correspond with your figures:
Take off 6500 rpm
Cruise 5600 rpm = 85mph
Cruise 5800 rpm = 95 mph
I noticed that with the two bladed medium prop it is far quieter and cruise
increased by about 5 mph - it also sounds like a continental now as you can
hardly hear the 2 stroke noise over the prop noise.
Temps vary due to weather but I set up my rad with aluminum tape to restrict
cold winter air and normally cruise at 165 deg F. I have just ordered the
Skystar rad scoop and will be fitting an adjustable door so that I can
control temps from the cabin. I have read a lot of correspondence on this
lately but am not sure if the adjustable devices made were for custom
fibreglass scoops or the Skystar model - can someone advise.
Re Flap Trim.
I learned to fly from a small grass strip (and later on floats) so I have
used flaps from the very start quite aggressively. I listen with interest
when I hear list members canning the use of flaps as I find them a great
tool in my particular applications. I also use the flap trim continuously to
modify not only the stock pressure but also the attitude in flight. I have
found that by trimming a little nose down at speeds above 85mph speed
increases and fuel consumption is reduced by up to 2 Ltr/hr. (I have the
Mizer flow meter so I see immediate responses in fuel consumption to
throttle settings and drag).
When flying on floats flaps reduce the take of run by a significant amount
and when landing the flaps give you a great "nose down" attitude that gives
a panoramic view of the landing site without any build of speed.
My EGT's tend to be lower in flight than most as I fly with a more
aggressive pitch due to the IFA IVO - I could probably address this with
even leaner main jet settings but just haven't got around to it.
Hope this helps
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
HI All.
I've been flying my kitfox 3/582 for about 50 hours now since i've owned
it....and haven't really run into any problems. I've started to try to fine
tune things a little bit...I'm just wondering what other airframes...2's or
3's are normally cruising at....a normal (no wind) grounspeed is what i'm
really looking for.
I've been changing around the pitch on my GSC to experiment. I just brought
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Sideslip question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Thanks for the reply Michael,
Sounds like I'm doing it right. My sink rate was around 900 to 1,000 FPM
with 85 to 90 MPH indicated airspeed. I'm be afraid to go much past 90MPH
indicated airspeed in a slip because my VNE is only 100mph and I'm sure my
actual airspeed is more than this. Sometime I'll see if I can get 2,00FPM
sink rate without folding the wing back.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Sideslip question
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
"Harris, Robert" wrote:
> When you do your side-slip are your wings tilted or do you keep them
level?
> Is banking the same as tilted? Are your wings at 45 degree angle or more
to
> the horizon? When I was doing extreme side slips my wings were at 45
degrees
> at times. Am I doing this correct? It sure is fun.
When I do my side-slip, Robert, it is to loose altitude without gaining
speed.
Because seating on the left, a left bank and right pedal is the most common
because it gives me the best view on the runway. But I also practice the
other
way around. With the pedal fully pressed, I need to bank about 30 degrees to
stay on the same heading. If I bank more, I'll turn in that direction. I
have
tried flat side-slip years ago, with a glider. But then, you need to swing
one
side, a few seconds, then the other, and so on. Otherwise you don't stay on
your heading.
Still, I don't know how I could sink 2,000 fpm in a side-slip. Maybe if I
was
gap-sealing my rudder. What do you think?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je@hotmail.com>
Michel...thanks for the information. I did mean to say EGT...just used to
looking at CHT in the varieze i owned last. My EGT sometimes "tries" to get
to 1250 on one clylinder...which i've been stopping, experiementing with and
may make a jetting adjustment...of course the richer mix at altitude makes
it no problem other than down low. 5600 RPM is also a good cruise# for
me...the EGT is good there, but i'm not getting as much speed....must be the
baggage pod...i'll try it without for a comparison. It was too windy here
to get a solid # for anything this morning....probably 20 knot gusts. I'm
using the GSC pitch tool....so the 19 deg pitch might be at another balde
position...previous pitch was about 16 deg.
Dan Johnson
>From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:48:20 +0200
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
>daniel johnson wrote:
> > That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC
>prop...will
> > you report the following.
>
>Hello Dan. I too have a Kitfox 3 with a 582, GSC prop, about 50 hours
>experience with no previous one, except my training in a Sky Arrow. I can't
>give you very accurate figures because when I fly I have either a talkative
>passenger, a bumpy ride or simply ... I am not good at keeping records.
>But, in general, I fly at around 5,600 RPM, which gives me about 80 MPH. I
>have
>measured my GSC pitch to be 14 degrees at 75% of the radius. I don't have a
>CHT
>and I can't give you a figure there. Only a dual EGT that stays under 1,200
>F.
>Water temps varies from summer to winter, of course, but is seldom over 160
>F,
>except on extended climb on a hot day.
>
>My flaps are limited to max 10 degrees. I never use them because I haven't
>been
>yet on a long flight in smooth air. Each time I fly to another place, it is
>during mid-day and thermal parcels keep me working the stick all the time.
>Sometimes I take a passenger for a short trip, before sunset, when it is
>smooth
>and comfortable, but then, no time for trimming my pitch with the
>flaperons.
>But I have tried it, of course. And yes, it increases the lift. You can
>feel it
>by the drop down as you remove it. It also pitches the nose down and I see
>how
>I could use it to keep me from a stick pressure on long distance. But it
>hasn't
>happened yet.
>
>Monday, I flew about one hour to the nearby Notodden ENNO airfield with my
>son.
>The sun is still low over Norway but it was enough heat generated to see me
>going up over 1,000 fpm in the thermals. If I want then to keep level, I
>need
>to reduce the throttle and nose down. But then I see that my mixture gets
>lean
>and the EGT goes up. The ASI goes up and down and it's difficult to get an
>average reading. Sometimes a wing is lifted. That's when the glider pilot
>decide to turn into the "elevator." I tried once but was out of it pretty
>soon.
>Glider pilots know where to pick their "elevators." Where I live, we have
>to
>watch for seagull circling. If we see vultures circling ... it's bad news!
>:-)
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Crosswind limits |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hey Michel or anybody else,
What are the crosswind limits in a Kitfox II or III? I was flying in
15-20MPH cross winds and almost did a ground loop. Now I'm afraid to land in
a crosswind situation in fear of a ground loop but there is almost always a
crosswind at my field.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
daniel johnson wrote:
> That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC
prop...will
> you report the following.
Hello Dan. I too have a Kitfox 3 with a 582, GSC prop, about 50 hours
experience with no previous one, except my training in a Sky Arrow. I can't
give you very accurate figures because when I fly I have either a talkative
passenger, a bumpy ride or simply ... I am not good at keeping records.
But, in general, I fly at around 5,600 RPM, which gives me about 80 MPH. I
have
measured my GSC pitch to be 14 degrees at 75% of the radius. I don't have a
CHT
and I can't give you a figure there. Only a dual EGT that stays under 1,200
F.
Water temps varies from summer to winter, of course, but is seldom over 160
F,
except on extended climb on a hot day.
My flaps are limited to max 10 degrees. I never use them because I haven't
been
yet on a long flight in smooth air. Each time I fly to another place, it is
during mid-day and thermal parcels keep me working the stick all the time.
Sometimes I take a passenger for a short trip, before sunset, when it is
smooth
and comfortable, but then, no time for trimming my pitch with the flaperons.
But I have tried it, of course. And yes, it increases the lift. You can feel
it
by the drop down as you remove it. It also pitches the nose down and I see
how
I could use it to keep me from a stick pressure on long distance. But it
hasn't
happened yet.
Monday, I flew about one hour to the nearby Notodden ENNO airfield with my
son.
The sun is still low over Norway but it was enough heat generated to see me
going up over 1,000 fpm in the thermals. If I want then to keep level, I
need
to reduce the throttle and nose down. But then I see that my mixture gets
lean
and the EGT goes up. The ASI goes up and down and it's difficult to get an
average reading. Sometimes a wing is lifted. That's when the glider pilot
decide to turn into the "elevator." I tried once but was out of it pretty
soon.
Glider pilots know where to pick their "elevators." Where I live, we have to
watch for seagull circling. If we see vultures circling ... it's bad news!
:-)
Cheers,
Michel
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: History of Navigation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Scott McClintock wrote:
> I'd just love to spark a long discussion about geodesy and celestial
> navigation.
Sure, Scott. But you were doing it as a profession, while I was doing it as an
amateur. Whenever I used my plastic sextant in the 70s, I was happy to get a
position within 10 NM. Not brilliant but good enough considering it was done on
a small sailboat.
http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/Sextant2.JPG
I also have a few memorabilia from my father who flew his Flying Boxcar, C-54
and Dakota to the Belgian Congo, doing navigation with a bubble sextant. Here
are the sextant, that I have now in Norway, a model of the C-119 he received in
1952, the Mercator charts he used, and a funny instrument called a Star Finder.
http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/AstroNav.JPG
My father died in 1986 but all my life I have tried to imagine what it was to
fly a cargo plane in those days. Today I have a Kitfox and I fly, but I am
limited. I still dream flying through the night, doing navigation with ancient
instruments ... argh! the GPS, while convenient, has destroyed a bit of the
navigation romanticism, hasn't it? :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 31
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comparison..mod3/5 82/gsc
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hi Gary,
I have a 3:1 C drive with a three bladed in flight adjustable Ivoprop and am
concerned about the harmonic vibration. What should I watch for? Can I
alleviate it? At rpms below 2400 my plane really shakes? What can I do to
stop that besides putting in a rk 400 clutch. I like the clutch idea but do
not like the idea of having to take the C drive off every 50 hours for
inspection. I plan on fling 10 plus hour a week. I'll check your reply
4-15-04.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Algate
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Re 582 set up.
I have the Lite2 (Model 4) with Bluehead 582 and In Flight Adjustable 2
bladed Medium Ivoprop. I initially had the three blade Ultralight IFA IVO
but I had continual problems with the electric motor due to harmonic
vibration caused by the 3:1 ratio of the C box coupled with 3 bladed prop. I
found out after the fact that IVO don't recommend this combination.
As my pitch changes my speeds may not correspond with your figures:
Take off 6500 rpm
Cruise 5600 rpm = 85mph
Cruise 5800 rpm = 95 mph
I noticed that with the two bladed medium prop it is far quieter and cruise
increased by about 5 mph - it also sounds like a continental now as you can
hardly hear the 2 stroke noise over the prop noise.
Temps vary due to weather but I set up my rad with aluminum tape to restrict
cold winter air and normally cruise at 165 deg F. I have just ordered the
Skystar rad scoop and will be fitting an adjustable door so that I can
control temps from the cabin. I have read a lot of correspondence on this
lately but am not sure if the adjustable devices made were for custom
fibreglass scoops or the Skystar model - can someone advise.
Re Flap Trim.
I learned to fly from a small grass strip (and later on floats) so I have
used flaps from the very start quite aggressively. I listen with interest
when I hear list members canning the use of flaps as I find them a great
tool in my particular applications. I also use the flap trim continuously to
modify not only the stock pressure but also the attitude in flight. I have
found that by trimming a little nose down at speeds above 85mph speed
increases and fuel consumption is reduced by up to 2 Ltr/hr. (I have the
Mizer flow meter so I see immediate responses in fuel consumption to
throttle settings and drag).
When flying on floats flaps reduce the take of run by a significant amount
and when landing the flaps give you a great "nose down" attitude that gives
a panoramic view of the landing site without any build of speed.
My EGT's tend to be lower in flight than most as I fly with a more
aggressive pitch due to the IFA IVO - I could probably address this with
even leaner main jet settings but just haven't got around to it.
Hope this helps
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
HI All.
I've been flying my kitfox 3/582 for about 50 hours now since i've owned
it....and haven't really run into any problems. I've started to try to fine
tune things a little bit...I'm just wondering what other airframes...2's or
3's are normally cruising at....a normal (no wind) grounspeed is what i'm
really looking for.
I've been changing around the pitch on my GSC to experiment. I just brought
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| Subject: | Re: Side-slip technique |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
"jeff.hays@aselia.com" wrote:
> You can increase sink two ways in a Kitfox slip: Aim the nose down and
> go fast, or pull back and slow down.
Thanks for your answer, Jeff, but I am still uncertain: If I want to side-slip
and descend faster, do I have to fly faster or slower? At the moment, I keep
65-70 MPH.
I am not sure I'd like to fly slower because ... stalling while uncoordinated,
isn't it the surest way to get into a spin? I don't ever want to get close to
that ... at low altitude!
Cheers,
Michel
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| Subject: | Re: Sideslip question |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
If you are looking to lose height in a slip then you really need to slow
way, way down.
When I slip I use 60mph to give me good safety margin above stall - then I
can hold a high drag angle of attack combined with a severe bank which gives
lots of side area as drag.
When you get this right the Kitfox comes down like an elevator and when you
are over the strip you just kick in some rudder, straighten up and your
normal rate of descent is re-established.
Best regards
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sounds like I'm doing it right. My sink rate was around 900 to 1,000 FPM
with 85 to 90 MPH indicated airspeed. I'm be afraid to go much past 90MPH
indicated airspeed in a slip because my VNE is only 100mph and I'm sure my
actual airspeed is more than this. Sometime I'll see if I can get 2,00FPM
sink rate without folding the wing back.
Robert
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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| Subject: | Setup comparison..mod3/5 |
82/gsc
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Robert,
Unfortunately the vibrations below 2400 are pretty normal with any 2 stroke.
This has very little to do with the prop. The harmonic vibrations are a
secondary vibration that occurs (normally in the higher rev ranges) and are
background vibrations that are pretty hard to detect.
What happens is the spool and the lead screw in the Pitch Motor vibrate and
become damaged. The small electric motor also becomes damaged and loses
power. The first signs of a problem are the prop won't "pitch up" in flight
especially if the prop is under load as in a climb out. Once the load is
reduced it works fine. After a while it just stops working. I found this
normally happened at about 100 intervals and in each case IVO replaced the
assy.
Even though the kept replacing the unit at no charge it becomes a pain
waiting for the parts and paying the freight so I finally suggested that we
find the root cause and they questioned me and determine I had the 3:1/C Box
combination. They gave me a full credit on the prop and exchanged it for the
much larger two bladed medium prop and I have had no further problems in 140
hrs of flying wheels/skis and floats.
Re normal engine vibration:
I have set my throttle so that fully closed it will idle down (very roughly)
to 2000 rpm but I always keep the throttle partially open to hold about
2800rpm when I land or idle the engine on warm up etc. I kept the lower
setting available to me for short field landings but even then as the plane
is moving forward there is far less vibration. Two stroke engines and cranks
don't like low frequency vibration.
Gary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi Gary,
I have a 3:1 C drive with a three bladed in flight adjustable Ivoprop and am
concerned about the harmonic vibration. What should I watch for? Can I
alleviate it? At rpms below 2400 my plane really shakes? What can I do to
stop that besides putting in a rk 400 clutch. I like the clutch idea but do
not like the idea of having to take the C drive off every 50 hours for
inspection. I plan on fling 10 plus hour a week. I'll check your reply
4-15-04.
Robert
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
keep your speed down
keep the tail down (stick back)
keep the upwind wing tip down until aileron won't hold it there (you are on two
wheels at this point-tail wheel and upwind main. You are in the same cross-contolled
situation as in the slip you used to get to the runway in the first place.
You were slipping in the crosswind weren't you.
keep your heading straight
all are important but speed (slow) makes the other things work.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>
> Hey Michel or anybody else,
>
> What are the crosswind limits in a Kitfox II or III? I was flying in
> 15-20MPH cross winds and almost did a ground loop. Now I'm afraid to land in
> a crosswind situation in fear of a ground loop but there is almost always a
> crosswind at my field.
> Robert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
> Verheughe
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> daniel johnson wrote:
> > That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC
> prop...will
> > you report the following.
>
> Hello Dan. I too have a Kitfox 3 with a 582, GSC prop, about 50 hours
> experience with no previous one, except my training in a Sky Arrow. I can't
> give you very accurate figures because when I fly I have either a talkative
> passenger, a bumpy ride or simply ... I am not good at keeping records.
> But, in general, I fly at around 5,600 RPM, which gives me about 80 MPH. I
> have
> measured my GSC pitch to be 14 degrees at 75% of the radius. I don't have a
> CHT
> and I can't give you a figure there. Only a dual EGT that stays under 1,200
> F.
> Water temps varies from summer to winter, of course, but is seldom over 160
> F,
> except on extended climb on a hot day.
>
> My flaps are limited to max 10 degrees. I never use them because I haven't
> been
> yet on a long flight in smooth air. Each time I fly to another place, it is
> during mid-day and thermal parcels keep me working the stick all the time.
> Sometimes I take a passenger for a short trip, before sunset, when it is
> smooth
> and comfortable, but then, no time for trimming my pitch with the flaperons.
> But I have tried it, of course. And yes, it increases the lift. You can feel
> it
> by the drop down as you remove it. It also pitches the nose down and I see
> how
> I could use it to keep me from a stick pressure on long distance. But it
> hasn't
> happened yet.
>
> Monday, I flew about one hour to the nearby Notodden ENNO airfield with my
> son.
> The sun is still low over Norway but it was enough heat generated to see me
> going up over 1,000 fpm in the thermals. If I want then to keep level, I
> need
> to reduce the throttle and nose down. But then I see that my mixture gets
> lean
> and the EGT goes up. The ASI goes up and down and it's difficult to get an
> average reading. Sometimes a wing is lifted. That's when the glider pilot
> decide to turn into the "elevator." I tried once but was out of it pretty
> soon.
> Glider pilots know where to pick their "elevators." Where I live, we have to
> watch for seagull circling. If we see vultures circling ... it's bad news!
> :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Side-slip technique |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
it seems prudent that the slip on final be done at the same indicated speed normally
used on final....varying the speed varies the approach and a consistant
set up will generally result in a consistant landing.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> "jeff.hays@aselia.com" wrote:
> > You can increase sink two ways in a Kitfox slip: Aim the nose down and
> > go fast, or pull back and slow down.
>
> Thanks for your answer, Jeff, but I am still uncertain: If I want to side-slip
> and descend faster, do I have to fly faster or slower? At the moment, I keep
> 65-70 MPH.
> I am not sure I'd like to fly slower because ... stalling while uncoordinated,
> isn't it the surest way to get into a spin? I don't ever want to get close to
> that ... at low altitude!
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | History of Navigation (reprised) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
Michel,
Not fair, you're really hitting me hard with that picture of those (now)
ancient navigation apparatus.
As a gadget guy, I like the old stuff as well as the new. The old stuff
really has character. (If they could only speak...)
I learned navigation as a young(er) man using vernier transits and
theodolites. Most with inverted image (up side down)
That is the price we pay for advanced technology. This is indicative of
some of the past comments on this list.
People get "lazy" when they depend upon tech without a basic
understanding of the principals involved.
Why would anybody bother with how to read an ephemeris, operate a
sextant, plot an accurate course when all you need do (now) is push a
button and the answer is immediately there, plotted on a moving map
display.
What I think is important to this group or anybody really is that (as
far as pertaining to operating an aircraft), it behooves us to
understand and to be proficient using the "old fashioned" navigation
techniques and devices when the tech fails, as it will. I know many that
use their GPS as the primary navigation instrument. This can lead one
into adopting "sloppy" habits like not paying attention to the "other"
instruments. Comments like " I trust the GPS ground speed over IAS" only
reinforces that premise.
Having said that, I should confess that I have one KX135 radio/gps in my
panel, one iQue GPS with Hanger B-17 EFIS on my glare shield, and my
handy, dandy Magellan hand-held as a back-up to the back-up. So don't
get me wrong, I'm no snob to the technology. But, I'd like to think that
I didn't waste my time and money learning to navigate the "old
fashioned" way.
Speaking of "Old Fashioned", I really like that "natural" you got goin'
on in that (was that the 60' or 70's?) sailboat/sextant picture, DUDE!!.
:-)
I start my annual condition inspection Friday so I will soon be up and
enjoying the spring tundra within a week or so (I hope).
Scott in Nome
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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| Subject: | Elbie's Rite Angle |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
Kurt S. wrote:
I bought Elbie's "Rite Angle AOA System" and I always
know (if I pay attention) the right speed....
Kurt,
Will you give me your experience with Elbie's unit? I'm thinking about
getting one for the "Arctic Fox".
on or off list is fine.
Thanks,
Scott in Nome
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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| Subject: | Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je@hotmail.com>
Robert...its still pretty cool here in columbus ohio...i haven't seen any
hot coolant temps yet. I have followed some of the notes here on the site
though and can point out that changing the antifreeze/water ratio can help
and there are some additives that can do the job too. My plane has a small
heater installed and i think i may have turned it on once or twice in the
past to be sure the temp wouldn't go to high. I believe mine would probably
run close to that in the same weather conditions...i think 180 is the red
line marked my coolant temp gauge.
I haven't tried burning any aviation fuel yet....does it seem to work well,
no fouling problems really?
Sorry i don't have lots more info...i haven't owned this thing long enough
to wipe off the smile yet.
Dan Johnson.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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| Subject: | Crosswind limits |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je@hotmail.com>
I tried a couple of crosswind landings today...i'd say i got in 15 gust to
20 direct on our grass field....but i passed on the same at a local paved
field....not saying its a limit...but thats my limit for now. Dan Johnson.
>From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: "'kitfox-list@matronics.com'" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:48:05 -0700
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
><Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>
>Hey Michel or anybody else,
>
>What are the crosswind limits in a Kitfox II or III? I was flying in
>15-20MPH cross winds and almost did a ground loop. Now I'm afraid to land
>in
>a crosswind situation in fear of a ground loop but there is almost always a
>crosswind at my field.
>Robert
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
>Verheughe
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
>daniel johnson wrote:
> > That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC
>prop...will
> > you report the following.
>
>Hello Dan. I too have a Kitfox 3 with a 582, GSC prop, about 50 hours
>experience with no previous one, except my training in a Sky Arrow. I can't
>give you very accurate figures because when I fly I have either a talkative
>passenger, a bumpy ride or simply ... I am not good at keeping records.
>But, in general, I fly at around 5,600 RPM, which gives me about 80 MPH. I
>have
>measured my GSC pitch to be 14 degrees at 75% of the radius. I don't have a
>CHT
>and I can't give you a figure there. Only a dual EGT that stays under 1,200
>F.
>Water temps varies from summer to winter, of course, but is seldom over 160
>F,
>except on extended climb on a hot day.
>
>My flaps are limited to max 10 degrees. I never use them because I haven't
>been
>yet on a long flight in smooth air. Each time I fly to another place, it is
>during mid-day and thermal parcels keep me working the stick all the time.
>Sometimes I take a passenger for a short trip, before sunset, when it is
>smooth
>and comfortable, but then, no time for trimming my pitch with the
>flaperons.
>But I have tried it, of course. And yes, it increases the lift. You can
>feel
>it
>by the drop down as you remove it. It also pitches the nose down and I see
>how
>I could use it to keep me from a stick pressure on long distance. But it
>hasn't
>happened yet.
>
>Monday, I flew about one hour to the nearby Notodden ENNO airfield with my
>son.
>The sun is still low over Norway but it was enough heat generated to see me
>going up over 1,000 fpm in the thermals. If I want then to keep level, I
>need
>to reduce the throttle and nose down. But then I see that my mixture gets
>lean
>and the EGT goes up. The ASI goes up and down and it's difficult to get an
>average reading. Sometimes a wing is lifted. That's when the glider pilot
>decide to turn into the "elevator." I tried once but was out of it pretty
>soon.
>Glider pilots know where to pick their "elevators." Where I live, we have
>to
>watch for seagull circling. If we see vultures circling ... it's bad news!
>:-)
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
Premium!
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| Subject: | Crosswind limits |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
If thats a 90 at 20Kts or MPH , you are a good man.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of daniel
johnson
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je@hotmail.com>
I tried a couple of crosswind landings today...i'd say i got in 15 gust to
20 direct on our grass field....but i passed on the same at a local paved
field....not saying its a limit...but thats my limit for now. Dan Johnson.
>From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: "'kitfox-list@matronics.com'" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:48:05 -0700
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
><Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>
>Hey Michel or anybody else,
>
>What are the crosswind limits in a Kitfox II or III? I was flying in
>15-20MPH cross winds and almost did a ground loop. Now I'm afraid to land
>in
>a crosswind situation in fear of a ground loop but there is almost always a
>crosswind at my field.
>Robert
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
>Verheughe
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
>daniel johnson wrote:
> > That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC
>prop...will
> > you report the following.
>
>Hello Dan. I too have a Kitfox 3 with a 582, GSC prop, about 50 hours
>experience with no previous one, except my training in a Sky Arrow. I can't
>give you very accurate figures because when I fly I have either a talkative
>passenger, a bumpy ride or simply ... I am not good at keeping records.
>But, in general, I fly at around 5,600 RPM, which gives me about 80 MPH. I
>have
>measured my GSC pitch to be 14 degrees at 75% of the radius. I don't have a
>CHT
>and I can't give you a figure there. Only a dual EGT that stays under 1,200
>F.
>Water temps varies from summer to winter, of course, but is seldom over 160
>F,
>except on extended climb on a hot day.
>
>My flaps are limited to max 10 degrees. I never use them because I haven't
>been
>yet on a long flight in smooth air. Each time I fly to another place, it is
>during mid-day and thermal parcels keep me working the stick all the time.
>Sometimes I take a passenger for a short trip, before sunset, when it is
>smooth
>and comfortable, but then, no time for trimming my pitch with the
>flaperons.
>But I have tried it, of course. And yes, it increases the lift. You can
>feel
>it
>by the drop down as you remove it. It also pitches the nose down and I see
>how
>I could use it to keep me from a stick pressure on long distance. But it
>hasn't
>happened yet.
>
>Monday, I flew about one hour to the nearby Notodden ENNO airfield with my
>son.
>The sun is still low over Norway but it was enough heat generated to see me
>going up over 1,000 fpm in the thermals. If I want then to keep level, I
>need
>to reduce the throttle and nose down. But then I see that my mixture gets
>lean
>and the EGT goes up. The ASI goes up and down and it's difficult to get an
>average reading. Sometimes a wing is lifted. That's when the glider pilot
>decide to turn into the "elevator." I tried once but was out of it pretty
>soon.
>Glider pilots know where to pick their "elevators." Where I live, we have
>to
>watch for seagull circling. If we see vultures circling ... it's bad news!
>:-)
>
>Cheers,
>Michel
>
>
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
Premium!
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Crosswind limits |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "daniel johnson" <kitfox91je@hotmail.com>
hard to tell...mph or knots.somewhere in there....but yeah, it was plenty
this morning. I just changed the pitch on the prop...was just going to run
it up and check for vibration....but hey, there you are sittin in it with
the motor running, ...one think lead to another...you know how it is. I'm
sure i never would have felt comfortable with that much crosswind on
pavement though.
Anyway, thanks for the compliment....i'm just trying not to bend it up
though... :)
Dan in Columbus
>From: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:38:05 -0700
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
>If thats a 90 at 20Kts or MPH , you are a good man.
>
>Rick
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of daniel
>johnson
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "daniel johnson"
><kitfox91je@hotmail.com>
>
>I tried a couple of crosswind landings today...i'd say i got in 15 gust to
>20 direct on our grass field....but i passed on the same at a local paved
>field....not saying its a limit...but thats my limit for now. Dan
>Johnson.
>
>
> >From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
> >Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >To: "'kitfox-list@matronics.com'" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Kitfox-List: Crosswind limits
> >Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:48:05 -0700
> >
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
> ><Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
> >
> >Hey Michel or anybody else,
> >
> >What are the crosswind limits in a Kitfox II or III? I was flying in
> >15-20MPH cross winds and almost did a ground loop. Now I'm afraid to land
> >in
> >a crosswind situation in fear of a ground loop but there is almost always
>a
> >crosswind at my field.
> >Robert
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
> >Verheughe
> >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Setup comparison..mod3/582/gsc
> >
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> >
> >daniel johnson wrote:
> > > That said...if you have a 582 powered Kitfox 2 or 3 with the GSC
> >prop...will
> > > you report the following.
> >
> >Hello Dan. I too have a Kitfox 3 with a 582, GSC prop, about 50 hours
> >experience with no previous one, except my training in a Sky Arrow. I
>can't
> >give you very accurate figures because when I fly I have either a
>talkative
> >passenger, a bumpy ride or simply ... I am not good at keeping records.
> >But, in general, I fly at around 5,600 RPM, which gives me about 80 MPH.
>I
> >have
> >measured my GSC pitch to be 14 degrees at 75% of the radius. I don't have
>a
> >CHT
> >and I can't give you a figure there. Only a dual EGT that stays under
>1,200
> >F.
> >Water temps varies from summer to winter, of course, but is seldom over
>160
> >F,
> >except on extended climb on a hot day.
> >
> >My flaps are limited to max 10 degrees. I never use them because I
>haven't
> >been
> >yet on a long flight in smooth air. Each time I fly to another place, it
>is
> >during mid-day and thermal parcels keep me working the stick all the
>time.
> >Sometimes I take a passenger for a short trip, before sunset, when it is
> >smooth
> >and comfortable, but then, no time for trimming my pitch with the
> >flaperons.
> >But I have tried it, of course. And yes, it increases the lift. You can
> >feel
> >it
> >by the drop down as you remove it. It also pitches the nose down and I
>see
> >how
> >I could use it to keep me from a stick pressure on long distance. But it
> >hasn't
> >happened yet.
> >
> >Monday, I flew about one hour to the nearby Notodden ENNO airfield with
>my
> >son.
> >The sun is still low over Norway but it was enough heat generated to see
>me
> >going up over 1,000 fpm in the thermals. If I want then to keep level, I
> >need
> >to reduce the throttle and nose down. But then I see that my mixture gets
> >lean
> >and the EGT goes up. The ASI goes up and down and it's difficult to get
>an
> >average reading. Sometimes a wing is lifted. That's when the glider pilot
> >decide to turn into the "elevator." I tried once but was out of it pretty
> >soon.
> >Glider pilots know where to pick their "elevators." Where I live, we have
> >to
> >watch for seagull circling. If we see vultures circling ... it's bad
>news!
> >:-)
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Michel
> >
> >
>
>Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
>Premium!
>
>
Message 43
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
In a message dated 4/14/04 12:20:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
michel@online.no writes:
old navigation stuff will only be rambling from old farts like
me and Scott. :-)
Don't forget the real old one @ 64 :-)
I even carried a Sectional in the MD-80 couldn't use those fancy radios,
needles looked like windshield wipers!
Elbie
Message 44
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
Elbie,
Those were the windshield wipers... need to use the bottom of the glasses
to see the needles. Heck my loc needle looks like the wipers. :)
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
RiteAngle3@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Air Speed
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
In a message dated 4/14/04 12:20:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
michel@online.no writes:
old navigation stuff will only be rambling from old farts like
me and Scott. :-)
Don't forget the real old one @ 64 :-)
I even carried a Sectional in the MD-80 couldn't use those fancy radios,
needles looked like windshield wipers!
Elbie
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