Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:29 AM - Page (Norm Beauchamp)
2. 05:43 AM - Re: Weight and balance (Michel Verheughe)
3. 06:21 AM - Most Adverse Aft C.G. ()
4. 06:45 AM - Re: Weight and balance QUARANTINE_LEVEL=4.0 KILL_LEVEL=5.0 (Dcecil3@aol.com)
5. 07:03 AM - Re: Used Kitfox and the DAR (Dcecil3@aol.com)
6. 07:13 AM - Re: Crosswind limits ...Spin, (Aerobatics@aol.com)
7. 08:00 AM - Re: Crosswind limits ...Spin, (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
8. 01:28 PM - Re: Crosswind limits ...Spin, (Aerobatics@aol.com)
9. 02:21 PM - Re: Weight and balance (Michel Verheughe)
10. 05:36 PM - Re: Weight and balance (Dcecil3@aol.com)
Message 1
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QUARANTINE_LEVEL=4.0 KILL_LEVEL=5.0
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Norm Beauchamp <nebchmp@wcc.net>
Grant Fluent,
Would you contact me off list please? Thanks. Norm
Do Not Archive.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
QUARANTINE_LEVEL=4.0 KILL_LEVEL=5.0
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Dcecil3@aol.com wrote:
> I don't know about the model 4 ,but the model 3 manual says to use the bottom
> of the fusalage, between the landing gear for level.
The way I did it in my model 3 is to set a water level on the floor of the
cockpit. Isn't that good enough?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 3
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| Subject: | Most Adverse Aft C.G. |
pts rule name description
---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <barryhuston@adelphia.net>
Hi Folks ---- Most Adverse Aft C.G. Questions
The Stated C.G. Envelope for the Model IV - 1200 is 10.2" to 16"
Currently: As a 912 powered tail dragger fully loaded using actual pilot and passenger
weights, the most adverse aft C.G. is at the limit of 16".
Issue: In converting it to an amphibious float plane --- without wheels before
adding the floats, the C.G. approaches 16.4"
The Ideal location for the float C.G. is at the Plane gross C.G. and should be
3" to 6" ahead of the float step, therefore keeping the overall C.G.at 16.4'.
Before I start moving equipment to less desirable locations I would be interested
in opinions on how far the Aft C.G. can be stretched (if at all) and was wondering
if a safety factor has been built into the C.G. envelope.
Thanks
Barry
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance QUARANTINE_LEVEL=4.0 KILL_LEVEL=5.0 |
KILL_LEVEL=5.0@matronics.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
Michel whatever works best. I was just quoteing the actual manual.There are a
Gazillion ways to do everything , as long as you arrive at the same
conclusion.You used a Water level, I used a 60" Carpenter's Framing Level .Some
would
prefer a Laser Level.the manual just says "Level the Plane" if you wanna
balance it on the Empire State building it's your plane.Betcha Cessna dosen't
have
that much leway
Best David Cecil
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Used Kitfox and the DAR |
KILL_LEVEL=5.0@matronics.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
Talked to the builder at lenght.Found out what I expected. When the Insurance
CO. paid the claim on the Kitfox they also took the airworthiness
certificate. The good news is the builder is still using the same Guy!!!!!!!!!
so should
have what I need soon. Now a Warning to all those would be damaged kitfox
builders and to those of you considering selling your plane. The way it was
explained to me by the FAA, if we find the Airworthiness Certificate (AWS) then
it
stays with the plane and the plane is a rebuild and you don't need a DAR to
inspect the plane, Just an A&P to sign it off but, If the AWS is turned in to
Oklahoma City then I can start from scratch it will be "My" kit and I'm the
builder.The later is the best choice because, if you do it as a rebuild, you
will forever implicate the original builder, his name not yours will be on the
AWS Neat aint it all this Because the Insurance CO didn't send the AWS to OK
City
Best David Cecil
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits ...Spin, |
KILL_LEVEL=5.0@matronics.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
Just a thought re spins....
That airshow KF was a clipped wing.... big difference re spin recovery.
The Older KF were shy on vertical fin, this is less of problem on a clipped
wing regarding spin recovery.
CG, also has a very large bearing on spin recovery.
The best scenario is a nose heavy clipped wing, the worst is a full span with
an aft CG.
Personally, I would not spin it unless I knew exactly what was done before,
safely.
I kinda speak the obvious, but safety is our highest priority
Best,
Dave
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits ...Spin, |
KILL_LEVEL=5.0@matronics.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
In a message dated 4/17/04 7:13:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Aerobatics@aol.com writes:
Personally, I would not spin it unless I knew exactly what was done before,
safely.
I kinda speak the obvious, but safety is our highest priority
Best,
Dave
Dave, I agree with this 1000%, I haven't flown over 25000 hours by
doing to many really stupid things, more than I'd like to admit I know. Spins
in aircraft that haven't been successfully recovered from spin testing are NOT
one of the things I'm going to do, that is a field left for the professional
test pilots in my opinion. I had a cousin that was test pilot for Culver
Aircraft in Wichita, spin testing a new 4 place in the late 40's and watched the
company go bankrupt -- as he floated down in his parachute. He completed his
career as a test pilot for Cessna Aircraft, doing both production and initial
flight test work. When going to college I used to ride around with him on
production test flights in all Cessna aircraft that were in production in the late
'50's& early 60's--things have changed slightly!
I have a file of all stall/spin type aircraft accidents over the last 10
years, however homebuilt aircraft are not listed in a way you can see what type
they are unless you do an N number search due to many builders using their names
as the manufacturer. It will sure make you think a bit when you look at it
and study the causes!
Safety is No Accident
Elbie
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Crosswind limits ...Spin, |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
Wow 25,000 hours? er um ...my total now is only around 600
But, I design model, radio control aircraft for a living (past 25 years) and
the evolutionary process for us is very fast, allowing us to make many
changes, easily and quickly. We can learn a lot.
The KF is a great plane, and not so great. The KF 2 I own, I love, BUT, its
short coupled and under-finned. We would never even consider doing a model
this way. I can only imagine, that with an aft CG location, is a formula for
disaster. I speak only from practical experience from models. Once spinning,
I
suspect it could go flat further making recovery very difficult.
With a forward CG location, it MIGHT be OK? But man, no way I want to take
that chance.
Spinning can vary a lot. When they test a production plane I bet the process
is under a wide CG range, different types of entry, different weights and so
on.
Unless someone can prove to me it was done with a plane... I wont do it....
Rent an aerobat like a Pitts, Extra, Cessna aerobat etc. and get
isntruction. There are many that are a blast.
I still talk about my limited dual ( 4 hours) in a Pitts S2B wow! I mean
really big wow!
It was with a pro, in a certified aerobatic plane and I had a chute.....
Dave
KF 2 582
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Dcecil3@aol.com wrote:
> Michel whatever works best. I was just quoteing the actual manual.
Of course, David. But you sound a bit offended as if I was trying to be
patronizing with "a better way" of levelling. It was certainly not the case and
I apologize if I gave that impression. You know that I am a novice and
certainly not able to give any advice. My answer was rather to be understood as
a question, like: "I do it on the top of the floor, which, I hope, is the same
as the bottom of the fuselage, as indicated in the same manual as yours."
Cheers,
Michel
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
Michel
Sorry if I sounded Offended I was just saying two things:1 Howerever you
arrive at the same conclusion is fine just as long as it's the same 2 The nice
thing about homebuilding is you can do it differently.we're not limited to GTO
like GA aircraft(You can put Gas in it ,check the air in the Tires and check
the Oil) sorry if I ruffled any feathers(No pun intended)
David Cecil
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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