---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/23/04: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:12 AM - OT: U2 WAS:tail wheel/ground loop (michel) 2. 04:43 AM - Re: Cooling system (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 3. 05:24 AM - Re: Cooling system (Gary Algate) 4. 08:09 AM - Re: Cooling system (skyflyte@comcast.net) 5. 10:31 AM - Re: Engine monitoring - PLC ? - Subaru engine builders (roger augenstein) 6. 10:52 AM - Re: Cooling system (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 7. 05:50 PM - I'am Through With Sun N' Fun (John E. King) 8. 06:41 PM - EAA eHotline/Sport Pilot Update (Steve Cooper) 9. 08:32 PM - Titan Tornado 1 for sale (Ron Lee) 10. 11:11 PM - Homebrew Lift Reserve Indicator (Andy) 11. 11:40 PM - Re: I'am Through With Sun N' Fun (Michel Verheughe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:12:57 AM PST US From: michel Subject: Kitfox-List: OT: U2 WAS:tail wheel/ground loop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel >===== Original Message From > You didn't mention that wingtip wheels that drop off are >used for take off only. Or has that changed? Yes, I meant I had also seen those wingtip wheels, Brian. But maybe I mistake it for another plane. Anyway, thanks for the great explanation of how the U2 handles. I love aviation, any aviation! Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:45 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cooling system --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com I have been watching the comments about cooling 582 engines and hoped someone might be able to help us out as well. We are going to be running our 582 for the first time after a complete rebuild and are not sure about the percentage of coolant to include. Our day time temps in Queensland are 30C which appears to be in contrast to many areas where comments are coming from. I know you guys fly in snow and ice but this doesn't translate to our ambient temps. Is there a starting point from where you increase or decrease the amount of coolant to water ratio and has anyone got any tips for running in an engine. I would stick to the 50/50 mixture as recommended by the specs. During the runup, you will probably be able to get through half the procedure without any overheat problems. During the higher RPM's you will probably need to provide a spray of cold water on the radiator. I rigged a piece of alum tubing (about) 2' long with a garden hose attachment on one end. I crimped the other end of the tubing and drilled small holes along the length. Temporarily attach the assembly so it will spray on the radiator. Worked great. I would always stick to the 50/50 mixture unless you get to a point where you need to drop the temps. I still believe that a good designed radiator scoop is better than lowering the coolant ratio and more effective. Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:58 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Cooling system --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" Graeme I'm originally from Broken Hill so I have an idea of the temps you are talking about. Now I live in Canada so although we get the cold winters we still get reasonably warm summers (mid 30's) When I played with the coolant ratios I noticed about a 5 degree temp between 10% coolant and 50% Coolant so it wasn't a lot. I really wouldn't go much lower than 20% as you would only be chasing a couple of degrees and risking corrosion problems. I gained a lot more by just lowering the rad. During run in with a 582 it's not uncommon to have to run water over the outside of the rad to keep temps in check due to the low air flow and "tight" engine. Once you're in the air the temps will drop a lot and after a few hours flying they really start to settle down. Regards Gary >>>>>> I have been watching the comments about cooling 582 engines and hoped someone might be able to help us out as well. We are going to be running our 582 for the first time after a complete rebuild and are not sure about the percentage of coolant to include. Our day time temps in Queensland are 30C which appears to be in contrast to many areas where comments are coming from. I know you guys fly in snow and ice but this doesn't translate to our ambient temps. Is there a starting point from where you increase or decrease the amount of coolant to water ratio and has anyone got any tips for running in an engine. Thanks to all who have made contact with us during the rebuild of our Mk1. We have had a remarkable response and the advice was generally spot on. We have even had the total manual scanned and mailed along with a video (Hi Ray). The importance of the Kitfox list cannot be overstated. For people like ourselves it is the only guidance available to us. Cheers Graeme Toft Yeppoon Queensland >>>>>>>> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:53 AM PST US From: skyflyte@comcast.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Cooling system --> Kitfox-List message posted by: skyflyte@comcast.net Let's not forget that the antifreeze acts as a lubricant for the water pump. No glycol, no lubrication. I would not recommend using just distilled water, or a low ratio of antifreeze - distilled water. If the water temperature is too high, lower the radiator, get a bigger radiator, or force more air thru the existing one. Mike Cannon N490MC > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > > Graeme > > I'm originally from Broken Hill so I have an idea of the temps you are > talking about. Now I live in Canada so although we get the cold winters we > still get reasonably warm summers (mid 30's) > > When I played with the coolant ratios I noticed about a 5 degree temp > between 10% coolant and 50% Coolant so it wasn't a lot. I really wouldn't go > much lower than 20% as you would only be chasing a couple of degrees and > risking corrosion problems. > > I gained a lot more by just lowering the rad. > > During run in with a 582 it's not uncommon to have to run water over the > outside of the rad to keep temps in check due to the low air flow and > "tight" engine. Once you're in the air the temps will drop a lot and after a > few hours flying they really start to settle down. > > Regards > > Gary > > >>>>>> > > I have been watching the comments about cooling 582 engines and hoped > someone might be able to help us out as well. We are going to be running our > 582 for the first time after a complete rebuild and are not sure about the > percentage of coolant to include. Our day time temps in Queensland are 30C > which appears to be in contrast to many areas where comments are coming > from. I know you guys fly in snow and ice but this doesn't translate to our > ambient temps. Is there a starting point from where you increase or decrease > the amount of coolant to water ratio and has anyone got any tips for running > in an engine. > > Thanks to all who have made contact with us during the rebuild of our Mk1. > We have had a remarkable response and the advice was generally spot on. We > have even had the total manual scanned and mailed along with a video (Hi > Ray). The importance of the Kitfox list cannot be overstated. For people > like ourselves it is the only guidance available to us. > > Cheers > Graeme Toft > Yeppoon > Queensland > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:59 AM PST US From: "roger augenstein" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine monitoring - PLC ? - Subaru engine builders --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "roger augenstein" I bought my engine instruments from JEGGS an auto store. They have been Ok. Roger KY EJ 22 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Cowley" Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine monitoring - PLC ? - Subaru engine builders > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Phil Cowley" > > Hey all, > > Has anyone considered building their own engine monitoring device using > a PLC or even a microcontroller ? > > It seems like it would provide the functionality of monitoring all the > engine functions, and could even backups for some of the other flight > systems as well - altimeter, etc. They are pretty light weight, and you > could build the system with drag and drop programming for about $750 - > $1000 with a nice tft screen. > > To all the Subaru builders & pilots out there - what have you used for > engine monitoring and mounting ?. I have just gotten my EJ22 (thanks > again Neal) and redrive and am now faced with the mounting and setup. > Pictures would be great if anyone has some handy. > > Any ideas on manifolds ? Ecu's to use or not to use ? exhaust system > layout ? cooling ? props ? > > Thanks for everyone's help - this is an invaluable resource > > Best regards > > Phil Cowley > Series 5 taildragger / EJ22 / SPG redrive > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:52:53 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cooling system --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 4/23/04 8:13:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, skyflyte@comcast.net writes: > > Let's not forget that the antifreeze acts as a lubricant for the water pump. > No glycol, no lubrication. I would not recommend using just distilled > water, or a low ratio of antifreeze - distilled water. If the water temperature > is too high, lower the radiator, get a bigger radiator, or force more air > thru the existing one. > Mike Cannon N490MC > Mike, I think this is good advice on the coolant mixture. Stay with the recommended mixture of 50/50 and redesign the system if necessary to keep the temps in check. I found that lowering the rad an inch or two does little to fix the problem. However, if you lower the rad about 4 inches and move it fwd of the cowl exit air, you get the desired results times 10. I just came in from flying with the OAT's about 85 degrees (F). My coolant went to 183 on climbout and had to step climb to reduce temps. Last summer, I had the radiator positioned as I mentioned above (temporary) and all was perfect. I took out the temp rig but will have to reinstall it soon and make it more permanent. Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:15 PM PST US From: "John E. King " Subject: Kitfox-List: I'am Through With Sun N' Fun --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " To The List, I have had it with Sun N' Fun. I have flown my Kitfox to Sun N' Fun and Oshkosh every year since 1994 and over the last few years I have told my pilot friends that it was the last Sun N' Fun trip for me. As each year approached I always found a good reason to attend one more time. However, this past weeks experience at Sun' N Fun has solidified that position. I had planned to depart for Sun N' Fun on Monday the 12th, but the weather in Virginia and most of the route to the south was IFR for three days. I finally departed on Thursday morning the 15th. The good news was I had a tail wind all the way to Lakeland, FL. My ground speed ranged from 145 to 120 Kts, not bad for a Kitfox. It was the first time I ever made it from Warrenton, VA (W66) to Waycross, GA (AYS) in one leg (501 nm). I arrived at Zephyrhills, FL (ZPH) at 2:15 pm to wait out the air show going on at Lakeland which was scheduled to end at 5:00 pm. There was a crowd of airplanes at Zephyrhills waiting with me. BTW, fuel at Zephyrhills was only $1.20 a gallon. At Lakeland the air show starts at 2:00 pm and is scheduled to end at 5:00 pm. 5:00 to 6:00 pm is scheduled for departures forcing arrivals to wait until 6:00 pm before that are allowed to enter the approach pattern and land. I have always accepted that until this year the air show was allowed to extend to almost 6:00 pm. While I was at Zephyrhills waiting for the show to end at 5:00 we were advised that arrivals to Lakeland would not permitted until 7:00 pm. After a 16 km flight to Lake Parker at Lakeland I was told that the holding patterns over Lake Parker and Lake Hancock were full and all other pilots would have to circle somewhere east of Lake Parker. That meant there were airplanes flying all over the place, most of them confused and angry. After circling for 45 minutes east of Lake Parker the sun was starting to set on the horizon. To make a long horror story short I returned to Zephyrhills Airport along with a lot of other aircraft and tied down for the night. Some camped under their wings. I was lucky in that I had friends pick me up and I stayed with them in Orlando. The next morning I was dropped off at Zephyrhills at 11.00 am and one of my friends flew with me to Lake Parker for one more try at Lakeland. Again we flew in circles east of Lake Parker because both Lake Parker and Lake Hancock holding patterns were full. I had to fly in circles for about one hour before I was allowed to proceed to Lakeland and land. The air show was about to start after I was on the ground. The controllers at Sun N' Fun do not have the necessary skills, experience and technique to handle the traffic volume in and out of Lakeland. Oshkosh does a superior job with larger traffic volumes. In my nine years of flying my Kitfox into Oshkosh I was only in a holding pattern at Rippon once and that was for only two laps. I also blame the EAA Management Team at Sun N' Fun for adding to the problem. The air show is scheduled for three hours and starts at 2:00 pm. Even when it ends on schedule it does not provide enough time for arrival aircraft to make it in before sundown. Why don't they start the show earlier, or better yet hold it down to just two hours. I have seen the show so many times that it is no longer a significant event for me. I go to the shows to look at all the other aircraft on the flight line, talk to the pilots who build and fly them and look over what the vendors are selling today. Another big gripe I have about Sun N' Fun is that the flight line is closed to all pilots and visitors during the three hour air show. When the show is over after 5:00 PM everyone starts to leave for the day. Oshkosh keeps the flight line open all day long. BTW, I know why the flight line is closed during the air show at Sun N' Fun, but I don't like it anyhow. I get the impression that the management at Sun N' Fun is far more interested in the sponsors and vendors then the pilots that fly their aircraft there. Aren't we the ones that the fly-in is all about? Bottom line, I'll see you all at Oshkosh, but never at Sun N' Fun again. -- John King Warrenton, VA ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:13 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Kitfox-List: EAA eHotline/Sport Pilot Update --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" April 23, 2004 Volume 4, Number 16 News You Can Use --- Congressional Representatives Join EAA in Urging OMB to Approve Sport Pilot Rule Now Two senators, five U.S. Representatives submit petition with thousands of signatures EAA's efforts to finalize the sport pilot/light-sport aircraft rule drew the support of seven members of Congress this week, as these elected officials were invited to join EAA members and aviation enthusiasts in urging the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) to approve the rule "in the most expeditious manner possible" when it receives the proposal back from the Federal Aviation Administration and the U.S. Department of Transportation. The elected officials, who are also pilots or knowledgeable aviation supporters, include Senators James Inhofe (R-OK) and Michael Crapo (R- ID); and Congressional representatives Sam Graves (R-MO); Tom Petri (R-WI); Robin Hayes (R-NC); Vernon Ehlers (R-MI); and Dennis Rehburg (R-MT). Each signed the letter addressed to OMB Director Joshua B. Bolten, expressing strong support for the FAA's proposed rule, Certification of Aircraft and Airman for the Operation of Light-Sport Aircraft (Docket No. FAA-2001-11133). ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:41 PM PST US From: "Ron Lee" Subject: Kitfox-List: Titan Tornado 1 for sale --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Lee" I just reduced the price $1,00.00, Check it out on barnstotmers.com Ron Lee ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:46 PM PST US From: "Andy" Subject: Kitfox-List: Homebrew Lift Reserve Indicator --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy" Has anyone on this list built and used the homebrew version of the Lift Reserve Indicator that was once upon a time posted on the airsoob website? Consist of a probe and a differential pressure gauge. Just Curious. Andy F. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:05 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I'am Through With Sun N' Fun --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe "John E. King" wrote: > I have had it with Sun N' Fun. Thanks for sharing, John. I love to read this kind of stuff. Sorry if Sun N' Fun was a deception for you this year. But - as seen from little Norway where I live - it looks to me that your flying was exciting enough, anyhow. I remember a few years ago when I sailed single-handed to France. I left Boulogne for Cherbourg, sailing through the night. Next morning, I met a strong current that delayed me 6 hours before I could tie to the "waiting pontoon" at Cherbourg. I raged not being able to go ashore at once, then went to sleep after a sleepless sailing night. When I woke up later, I felt ashamed of my rage: I was there not by necessity but on holiday. I was doing something most people can only dream of. I had no reason to complain. Lack of sleep plays tricks with your mood. Incidentally, I am about to leave for the airfield because our Microlight club organizes today a seminar on aircraft fire-fighting, first help and emergency communication. Then we will do a SAR training. One of the members has "hidden" a microlight somewhere in a field. We'll have to find it. I am very excited, the WX is CAVU and I'll fly to the nearby Torp ENTO airport, which will be my first time on a commercial airport. I'll try to do a good landing and honour the Kitfox I fly in front of the guys in the tower. :-) Cheers, Michel Do not archive