Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:33 AM - Re: Ground Loop (michel)
2. 05:30 AM - Re: LP windshield fit -5 (Howard Firm)
3. 06:17 AM - Ground Loop (hausding, sid)
4. 08:06 AM - Re: OT (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
5. 08:58 AM - Re: LP windshield fit -5 (kurt schrader)
6. 09:02 AM - Re: Ground Loop (kurt schrader)
7. 10:56 AM - Re: LP windshield fit -5 (Rick)
8. 11:12 AM - Clear plastic stuff.........gap seal (hausding, sid)
9. 12:23 PM - Funny story (William J. Applegate)
10. 01:13 PM - Funny story (hausding, sid)
11. 01:33 PM - Re: LP windshield fit -5 (Kerry Skyring)
12. 01:40 PM - Re: Funny story (Bob Unternaehrer)
13. 01:44 PM - Re: Carb heat options (Kerry Skyring)
14. 02:11 PM - Re: LP windshield fit -5 (Howard Firm)
15. 02:13 PM - Funny story and not so funny time trying to get the URL right (William J. Applegate)
16. 03:39 PM - Re: LP windshield fit -5 (Fox5flyer)
17. 03:46 PM - Not So Funny Story (Steve Cooper)
18. 04:43 PM - Re: Not So Funny Story (Don Pearsall)
19. 05:40 PM - Re: Funny story (DC91840@aol.com)
20. 06:19 PM - Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers (John E. King)
21. 06:36 PM - Re: Not So Funny Story (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
22. 06:36 PM - Re: Not So Funny Story (Roger McConnell)
23. 07:00 PM - Re:Leading edge extrusions (Thomas Moffitt)
24. 07:28 PM - Leading edge extrusions (hausding, sid)
25. 07:29 PM - Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers (JMCBEAN)
26. 08:15 PM - Re: Leading edge extrusions (Jeff Smathers)
27. 08:20 PM - Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers (RiteAngle3@aol.com)
28. 10:21 PM - Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers (jimshumaker)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>===== Original Message From Scott McClintock
>Had the rudder to the floor but as the plane slowed I guess there
>was just not enough air flowing over the rudder and the X-wind just spun
>me around. Damn!
I am very sorry to hear that, Scott!
Since there are two types of taildragger pilots, the one who did a ground loop
and those who will, I try to prepare myself mentally for that day, but ...
Could it be an idea to gap-seal the rudder in order to have more authority in
cross-wind?
In my simulator, with the Kitfox I modelled, I can't prevent the plane to
weathervane in more than 10 knots crosswind. I know, it's only a simulator but
... a good one, I think.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: LP windshield fit -5 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
Thanks Kurt, Did you have a hard time getting the upper side areas under the
metal lip? It seems like the windshield is slightly too wide where it forms
around the wing root.
Howard
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> You should have at least 70 degrees before bending and
> drilling. Even warmer is better. Sunshine helps too.
> Heat lamps might work well. I didn't like my heatgun
> results... Too consentrated even when sweeping the
> gun. You can get stress and distortions elsewhere.
>
> Make sure to line up the back edge with the overhead
> rear crossmember to get the right length at the top
> too. You may need to trim the sides back to fit.
> Mine wouldn't reach.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- Howard Firm <pianome2@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to fit my preformed
> > windshield to the strait cowling on my -5 ....
> > If I squeeze the sides on the windshield together,
> > I can get the front to bow out, but I'm putting a
> > lot of stress there...has anyone used a heat gun...
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Scott,
The 'test' roll of new plastic type tape (supposed to be better than the Ski
Saver stuff) has arrived and I'm in the process of sharing it with other
experienced users. I'm installing it on my Speedwing before I even test fly
.....because I know it will have positive results from listening to other
flyers.
You are welcome to use it also, there is plenty to go around for awhile. We
can test it, evaluate it, and then pass on the results to the company and
others on the list.
Will need your address if you're interested............
Sid
---------------
Could it be an idea to gap-seal the rudder in order to have more authority
in
cross-wind?
Cheers,
Michel
do
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
Kurt & others,
Nothing political was meant by my message, just that I appreciate all the
Vets have done for us here in the US.
All of my family are thankful for those who were in the military, Reserve,
National Guard or Regulars.
Elbie
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: LP windshield fit -5 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Yes Howard,
That was the worst area, though it wasn't that bad.
I already see some light crazing around those tight
turns though. I do believe that the window is much
more pliable when it is hot out and will have less
stress for life if installed warm.
In my case, I ended up with that back edge a little
short and had to devise my own attachment back there
to connect to the turtledeck. I probably should have
waited until it was hotter, or provided more general
heat myself, then trimmed those top side edges more.
I just didn't want to push it with forcing the window
back anymore on top, at the time.
For the $500, it might be worth the wait to let it
adjust to the frame slowly, unless you can put some
general heat to it. I suggest setting it in there and
leave it clamped at the bottom and back. Over a few
days, slowly moving it back into position until the
edges are entirely set, bottom to top. Heat or time
will reduce the stress, unless there is too much too
fast.
Don't the instructions say 70 degrees or above? I got
that from somewhere.
Kurt S.
--- Howard Firm <pianome2@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Kurt, Did you have a hard time getting the
> upper side areas under the
> metal lip? It seems like the windshield is slightly
> too wide where it forms
> around the wing root.
>
> Howard
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Sid,
Can any of us get on your list for a tape sample? I
would like to test the stuff too.
Kurt S.
--- "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net> wrote:
> Scott,
> The 'test' roll of new plastic type tape (supposed
> to be better than the Ski
> Saver stuff) has arrived and I'm in the process of
> sharing it with other
> experienced users. I'm installing it on my
> Speedwing before I even test fly
> .....because I know it will have positive results
> from listening to other flyers.
> You are welcome to use it also, there is plenty to
> go around for awhile. We
> can test it, evaluate it, and then pass on the
> results to the company and
> others on the list.
> Will need your address if you're
> interested............
> Sid
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
Message 7
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| Subject: | LP windshield fit -5 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Howard, just a note. When I installed my one piece LP windshield it was very
hot out, good thing. However. The bend next to root was a bear. I ended up
cutting quite a bit away. I am also almost done with some fiberglass covers
to take the place of the flat aluminum one. What a job. If you like I will
look for some pic of my install.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Howard Firm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: LP windshield fit -5
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
Thanks Kurt, Did you have a hard time getting the upper side areas under the
metal lip? It seems like the windshield is slightly too wide where it forms
around the wing root.
Howard
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> You should have at least 70 degrees before bending and
> drilling. Even warmer is better. Sunshine helps too.
> Heat lamps might work well. I didn't like my heatgun
> results... Too consentrated even when sweeping the
> gun. You can get stress and distortions elsewhere.
>
> Make sure to line up the back edge with the overhead
> rear crossmember to get the right length at the top
> too. You may need to trim the sides back to fit.
> Mine wouldn't reach.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- Howard Firm <pianome2@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to fit my preformed
> > windshield to the strait cowling on my -5 ....
> > If I squeeze the sides on the windshield together,
> > I can get the front to bow out, but I'm putting a
> > lot of stress there...has anyone used a heat gun...
Message 8
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| Subject: | Clear plastic stuff.........gap seal |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Absolutely. We need all the people we can get to let others know anyhoo..
...so, like John did with the CD's let's get some kind of list going. Not
sure how to do it. Others have expressed an interest and on the Avid list
also. I guess we can start the list now, it won't take long to mail between
people and the use of is something pretty simple and uncomplicated to apply,
and won't take long for each one of us............right? If everyone will
send me their address, I will start a list and notify the receiver of the
next of kin, so to speak. If someone has a better way, let us (me) know. I
will try to be efficient and expediant. The price to use this stuff will
be the cost to send it on to the next user..............about one pound UPS
delivery to the next address, or Postal, however one would chose to send.
Couple of bucks, maybe? The roll is about the size of a new roll of duct
tape.
Sid
sidh@charter.net
-----------------------------------
Can any of us get on your list for a tape sample? I
would like to test the stuff too.
,
> The 'test' roll of new plastic type tape (supposed
> to be better than the Ski
> Saver stuff) has arrived and I'm in the process of
> sharing it with other
> experienced users. I'm installing it on my
> Speedwing before I even test fly
> .....because I know it will have positive results
> from listening to other flyers.
> You are welcome to use it also, there is plenty to
> go around for awhile. We
> can test it, evaluate it, and then pass on the
> results to the company and
> others on the list.
> Will need your address if you're
> interested............
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "William J. Applegate" <bigapple@gct21.net>
Hi Troops,
Ran across this little tidbit and thought you might enjoy and possibly
learn from it. I sure did. Maybe you have one you'd like to share.
http://www.ultralight.ca/pilots_corner/clayton_fisher.
Best regards to all..........Bill Applegate......Tucson,
AZ..............Series 7
Do Not Archive.
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
I took the liberty to amend the url for correctness.............ahem.
Sid
--------------
Ran across this little tidbit and thought you might enjoy and possibly
learn from it. I sure did. Maybe you have one you'd like to share.
http://www.ultralight.ca/pilots_corner/clayton_fisher.html
Best regards to all..........Bill Applegate......Tucson,
AZ..............Series 7
Message 11
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| Subject: | LP windshield fit -5 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" <kerryskyring@hotmail.com>
Howard we are sort of at the same point. (S5 with smooth cowl) The screen
doesn't quite fit snug to the lip on the cowl. We have quite a tight fit
between firewall and cowl and wonder whether we've cut enough firewall
away to allow the cowl to come back and down far enough to meet the screen.
Anyway we're thinking that maybe we can use some heat to bend the
lip on the firewall back to meet the screen and close up the small gap
we still have. Not sure if this will work but will let you know and would
appreciate any other comments from 5 owners on getting a good
seal between cowl and screen.
Kerry
>Hey guys and gals!!! I'm trying to fit my preformed windshield to the
>strait
>cowling on my -5 and the front of the windshield doesn't have enough
>"curve"
>
>
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilocom@c-magic.com>
neither one worked for me.
----- Original Message -----
From: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Funny story
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
>
> I took the liberty to amend the url for correctness.............ahem.
> Sid
> --------------
>
>
> Ran across this little tidbit and thought you might enjoy and possibly
> learn from it. I sure did. Maybe you have one you'd like to share.
>
> http://www.ultralight.ca/pilots_corner/clayton_fisher.html
>
> Best regards to all..........Bill Applegate......Tucson,
> AZ..............Series 7
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Carb heat options |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" <kerryskyring@hotmail.com>
Sorry to raise this one again but it's "breaking our heads" as they say in
Austria.
We're an S5 with 912S and smooth cowl. We've basically given up on
installing
carb heat because respected members of the list say it's redundant and
in any case Skystar don't stock the system any more. But we are under
quite a bit of peer pressure from the local hangar experts to do something
towards warming those carbs. Legend has it there's a Kitfox in the English
channel as a result of carb ice. How they know it was carb ice if it's in
the
channel has not been explained.... We're also aware of the Austrian winter
and the ever present threat of carb ice.
At Sun N Fun Hans (the owner) saw on the Rotax stand a carb heat
system using engine coolant instead of exhaust heat. Around $250.
Can any lister share experience/knowledge/tips. We want to get on
and fly....
Kerry- the builders helper.
PS Hans says to thank the S5 owner who was at Sun N Fun. He
took heaps of fotos and gave it a good going over.
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: LP windshield fit -5 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
Kerry, My fit over the firewall is very tight also....I'm probably going to
add to the rear of the top cowl to get a fit....I'm about 1" away now....
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kerry Skyring" <kerryskyring@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: LP windshield fit -5
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring"
<kerryskyring@hotmail.com>
>
> Howard we are sort of at the same point. (S5 with smooth cowl) The screen
> doesn't quite fit snug to the lip on the cowl. We have quite a tight fit
> between firewall and cowl and wonder whether we've cut enough firewall
> away to allow the cowl to come back and down far enough to meet the
screen.
>
> Anyway we're thinking that maybe we can use some heat to bend the
> lip on the firewall back to meet the screen and close up the small gap
> we still have. Not sure if this will work but will let you know and would
> appreciate any other comments from 5 owners on getting a good
> seal between cowl and screen.
> Kerry
>
>
> >Hey guys and gals!!! I'm trying to fit my preformed windshield to the
> >strait
> >cowling on my -5 and the front of the windshield doesn't have enough
> >"curve"
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Funny story and not so funny time trying to get the URL right |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "William J. Applegate" <bigapple@gct21.net>
Hi Troops,
Ran across this little tidbit and thought you might enjoy and possibly
learn from it. I sure did. Maybe you have one you'd like to share.
http://www.ultralight.ca/pilots_corner/clayton_fisher.htm
Best regards to all..........Bill Applegate......Tucson,
AZ..............Series 7
Do Not Archive.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: LP windshield fit -5 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I doubt you'll have much luck bending the lip on the cowling, even with
heat. Actually, the windshield is supposed to be pushed forward and mated
up to the cowling, not the other way around. If it's not too late and you
haven't trimmed off the sides of the windshield you might try that. Just
don't push too hard and make sure you have a warm shop or good hot sun. If
that won't work you might have the best all around luck by trimming off the
lip on the cowl and reglassing it to give a good seal on the cowl.
Good luck,
Darrel
> Anyway we're thinking that maybe we can use some heat to bend the
> lip on the firewall back to meet the screen and close up the small gap
> we still have. Not sure if this will work but will let you know and would
> appreciate any other comments from 5 owners on getting a good
> seal between cowl and screen.
> Kerry
Message 17
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| Subject: | Not So Funny Story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
I have one...but it wasn't too funny at the time:
The morning began like many others, up at dawn...a quick cup of coffee
and I'm off to the hangar. I'm meeting my Hangar mate this morning (Dave
flies the J-3 Cubby). Well, we got the hangar doors open and started
rolling out airplanes. The sky was clear, but it was one of those days
that you KNOW is going to be a hot one. With the birds tucked neatly up
on the ramp and ready for takeoff, I returned once more to the hangar to
get a bottle of water from the fridge (it's nice to have a fridge in
your hangar...you always have a cold drink to offer visitors). I closed
the hangar doors in preparation for departure. I rememberd that I had a
couple of battery packs in the bird I didn't want to take along. I
retrieved them and opened the hangar sliding door again just enough to
get inside. I heard Dave call me from outside, so I walked back out...a
friend was flying in, and we both watched his nice landing...maybe Jack
wants to go along with us. Jack Taxied up to the hangar and I offerd him
a coold drink which Jack eagerly accepted. So I slid open the hangar
door again and went inside to retrieve Jack's drink. I walked out of the
hangar...again and closed the hangar door...again. Jack, Dave and myself
were standing in front of the hangar doors...hangar talking and
developing a plan for the day. Suddenly Jack pulled up stiff as a
board...shoulders back with an expression of terror on his face. In the
next moment I heard YEEEEOOOOWWW as Jack, a tall man, launched himself
high into orbit. In the next instant, I felt Dave yanking me by the
shirt sleeve. What is it? Whaaaat? Dave hollered, "Look, EEOOOOOWWWWWWW
man!" I turned my head around and looked down, and what I saw on the
ground took at least a second and a half to process. Coiled up and ready
to strike, was the fattest, biggest Mojave Green Rattle Snake I have
ever seen...buzzing like crazy, it was only a couple of inches away from
my foot. I never heard it! Apparently, we had been walking over it all
morning. Do I move? Do I freeze? That snapper was ready to sink those
big hypodermic needles into my leg. He was mad as hell... puffed himself
up, I'm a baaad boy, watch out! GET AWAY FROM ME FLYBOY!" "I'M GOING TO
SINK MY FANGS INTO YOUR BUTT AND PUMP AS MUCH VENOM AS I CAN!" I knew
he could strike three feet, my mind was reeling. I froze! I told Jack
and Dave to back off. They moved about 10 feet away (Jack had already
moved out of the immediate vicinity), but the snake wasn't relaxing. GET
AWAY BUDDY OR I'M GOING TO RUIN YOUR DAY! I didn't have much of a
choice... It was move and risk provoking the snake to strike or continue
to stand there and get bitten for sure. In a nano second I jumped away.
At that instant the Greener snapped out like a coiled spring. I felt
something brush the bottom of my tennis shoe. It got rubber but no meat!
It's fangs couldn't penetrate the sole of my shoe....I was safe. I
checked myself over pretty good after I was clear.... After giving the
"Greener" a little "love tap"...we were off on our flight! ;)
Steve
Message 18
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| Subject: | Not So Funny Story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
I guess it was funny, but I need a farmer's dictionary to get it.
The field had only been disked after harvest?
You cut the field into disks, or what?
Left to volunteer for pasture?
Huh, but I think I did that once, too.
The cows had been turned and it had rained?
Does turning cows make it rain??
Don (Seattle city slicker) Pearsall
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: DC91840@aol.com
take off the name (clayton fischer and then it will get you in the website
once there pick the name from the list
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
To Kurt, Bob, Michel & Others,
This discussion has led one of my friends and I to think about Michael Harter's
problem in that Arizona blind canon. His Model IV-1200 was powered by a Subaru.
To correct for the forward CG he mounted the battery way back in the tail
section. We were told by a whiteness that he completed 2 1/2 turns prior to
impact. The question has come to mind, whether Michael Harter could have been
a victim of non-recovery from his spin because of the extreme aft placement of
his battery?
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
kurt schrader wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>Good question Michel,
>
>There are supporters on both sides on this issue too.
>Angular momentum must be maintained, unless an outside
>force is applied,... etc, etc... So you already know
>that a figure skater will spin faster when her arms
>are pulled in, and slower when her arms are let out.
>
>This principle applies to weight distribution, and
>also to the nose angle in relation to the horizon. As
>you drop the nose to unstall the plane, it may
>actually spin faster initially, since the weight is
>brought closer to the spin axis. But unless the
>weight is moved, there is probably no difference in
>the spin between one weight distribution or the other,
>except structurally.
>
>Flat spins can be quite lazy. I know of an accident
>where a Bonanza got into a flat spin with 4 pax
>aboard. When the cool headed pilot could not get out
>of the spin, he noticed that the rate of descent was
>only 700'/min. He shut down the engine, turned
>everything off, including the fuel, dropped the gear.
>Whump...wrecked the plane, but they walked away from
>it. Don't try this at home.
>
>I am not positive, but I think you are always better
>off using the smallest weight you can, which means
>light weight furthest aft. One lb at 5 feet aft is 4
>lbs better than 5 lbs at one foot aft. Same angular
>momentum, but 4 lbs lighter.
>
>Planes with tip tanks are more stable. They get into
>spins harder and get out of them harder too, just like
>you said about ground loops. Some planes are designed
>to shed the tanks in a spin. You could duplicate this
>by putting a water tank in the tail for releasable
>weight, and have a cockpit dump handle for spins, if
>you want to work that hard. :-) I would rather move
>what I need than add dead weight.
>
>BTW, this is my first night back after being bounced
>off the list. What did I do???
>
>Kurt S.
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Not So Funny Story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
In a message dated 5/3/04 4:45:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
donpearsall@comcast.net writes:
I guess it was funny, but I need a farmer's dictionary to get it.
Don,
Come by the booth at Arlington, bring copy will explain! Before I started
flying I farmed over a section (a square mile) in W. Kansas.
Elbie
Message 22
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| Subject: | Not So Funny Story |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Pearsall
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Not So Funny Story
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
I guess it was funny, but I need a farmer's dictionary to get it.
The field had only been disked after harvest?
You cut the field into disks, or what?
Answer: The farmer used a plow that uses disks to turn the dirt.
Left to volunteer for pasture?
Answer: The wheat had been allowed to grow back after harvest so the cattle
could eat it.
The cows had been turned and it had rained?
Answer: The cows were allowed on to the field after it had rained. Wet
ground plus 4 hooves equal rough field.
Roger (Son of a poor dirt farmer) McConnell
Message 23
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| Subject: | RE:Leading edge extrusions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Thomas Moffitt" <tmoffitt@eatel.net>
I bought mine for my Avid Speedwing from the predecessors of http://www.blueskyaviation.net/catalog.html- Anicepter. You could try them.
They furnished the Kitfox template for location. It was recommended by Mr. Riblett
to me as well. It just epoxies on the front of the spar. The avid speedwing
(w/o the undercamber is close to the 30-612 airfoil with the cuff installed.
The shim was for the kitfox models prior to the Kitfox IV.
Tom Moffitt
---- Original Message -----
From: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Leading edge extrusions
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
>
> For the factory reps, and the owners/builders who have installed and
> experimented with the results:
>
> I would like to learn as much as possible about the Mod IV leading edge
> extrusions, or the leading edge cuff (whatever) that came out for the
Kitfox
> Mod IV a/c.
>
> Where on the factory website is the information, pictures and order form?
> What is the extrusion designed to do for the older style (Avid and Kitfox)
> wing?
> Which wing design (airfoil) is it made to compliment, or be used on?
> How is it aligned to the chord of the wing?
> Do they come with instructions?
> Where can one get two of these thingies?
Message 24
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| Subject: | Leading edge extrusions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
And Thank you Sir, I shall call Noel soon to check and see if indeed he is
carrying them.......I am finishing my Avid Speedwing and looking for all the
fairing and speed mods to assist that stubby little wing for speed and to
forestall the stall.................maybe even VG's too.
Sid
--------------------------------
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Thomas Moffitt" <tmoffitt@eatel.net>
I bought mine for my Avid Speedwing from the predecessors of http://www
blueskyaviation.net/catalog.html- Anicepter. You could try them.
They furnished the Kitfox template for location. It was recommended by Mr.
Riblett to me as well. It just epoxies on the front of the spar. The avid
speedwing (w/o the undercamber is close to the 30-612 airfoil with the cuff
installed. The shim was for the kitfox models prior to the Kitfox IV.
Tom Moffitt
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
John,
Talk was that he had spun his aircraft before intentionally.
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John E. King
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
To Kurt, Bob, Michel & Others,
This discussion has led one of my friends and I to think about Michael
Harter's problem in that Arizona blind canon. His Model IV-1200 was powered
by a Subaru. To correct for the forward CG he mounted the battery way back
in the tail section. We were told by a whiteness that he completed 2 1/2
turns prior to impact. The question has come to mind, whether Michael
Harter could have been a victim of non-recovery from his spin because of the
extreme aft placement of his battery?
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
kurt schrader wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>Good question Michel,
>
>There are supporters on both sides on this issue too.
>Angular momentum must be maintained, unless an outside
>force is applied,... etc, etc... So you already know
>that a figure skater will spin faster when her arms
>are pulled in, and slower when her arms are let out.
>
>This principle applies to weight distribution, and
>also to the nose angle in relation to the horizon. As
>you drop the nose to unstall the plane, it may
>actually spin faster initially, since the weight is
>brought closer to the spin axis. But unless the
>weight is moved, there is probably no difference in
>the spin between one weight distribution or the other,
>except structurally.
>
>Flat spins can be quite lazy. I know of an accident
>where a Bonanza got into a flat spin with 4 pax
>aboard. When the cool headed pilot could not get out
>of the spin, he noticed that the rate of descent was
>only 700'/min. He shut down the engine, turned
>everything off, including the fuel, dropped the gear.
>Whump...wrecked the plane, but they walked away from
>it. Don't try this at home.
>
>I am not positive, but I think you are always better
>off using the smallest weight you can, which means
>light weight furthest aft. One lb at 5 feet aft is 4
>lbs better than 5 lbs at one foot aft. Same angular
>momentum, but 4 lbs lighter.
>
>Planes with tip tanks are more stable. They get into
>spins harder and get out of them harder too, just like
>you said about ground loops. Some planes are designed
>to shed the tanks in a spin. You could duplicate this
>by putting a water tank in the tail for releasable
>weight, and have a cockpit dump handle for spins, if
>you want to work that hard. :-) I would rather move
>what I need than add dead weight.
>
>BTW, this is my first night back after being bounced
>off the list. What did I do???
>
>Kurt S.
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge extrusions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jeff Smathers <jsmathers@cybcon.com>
As a construction note:
Try using 3M superbond 2 sided adhesive tape instead of the epoxy.
It sticks so well after 24 hrs that I just about damaged the extrusion
trying to get it off to reposition it. Besides, you are going to use some
epoxy/baloon filleting and its going to be covered/glued down with fabric.
It won't ever move.
Jeff Smathers
"hausding, sid" wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
>
> And Thank you Sir, I shall call Noel soon to check and see if indeed he is
> carrying them.......I am finishing my Avid Speedwing and looking for all the
> fairing and speed mods to assist that stubby little wing for speed and to
> forestall the stall.................maybe even VG's too.
> Sid
> --------------------------------
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Thomas Moffitt" <tmoffitt@eatel.net>
>
> I bought mine for my Avid Speedwing from the predecessors of http://www
> blueskyaviation.net/catalog.html- Anicepter. You could try them.
> They furnished the Kitfox template for location. It was recommended by Mr.
> Riblett to me as well. It just epoxies on the front of the spar. The avid
> speedwing (w/o the undercamber is close to the 30-612 airfoil with the cuff
> installed. The shim was for the kitfox models prior to the Kitfox IV.
> Tom Moffitt
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com
I am not positive, but I think you are always better
>off using the smallest weight you can, which means
>light weight furthest aft. One lb at 5 feet aft is 4
>lbs better than 5 lbs at one foot aft. Same angular
>momentum, but 4 lbs lighter.
Not really same, but as Steve Whitman used to say "To Go Faster, Lose
Weight". IF the CG is within limits, and built per plans, with no mods it should
recover fine, assuming it is approved for spins. Perhaps more stress on airframe
in different conditions, but remember, the more weight the wing has to
support, the faster the stall speed, larger download on tail, etc, etc,~~ Aft
CG
faster, fwd GC more stable.
Elbie
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
I believe the 150 pounds of baggage behind the seats was contributed also.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
>
> To Kurt, Bob, Michel & Others,
>
> This discussion has led one of my friends and I to think about Michael
Harter's problem in that Arizona blind canon. His Model IV-1200 was powered
by a Subaru. To correct for the forward CG he mounted the battery way back
in the tail section. We were told by a whiteness that he completed 2 1/2
turns prior to impact. The question has come to mind, whether Michael
Harter could have been a victim of non-recovery from his spin because of the
extreme aft placement of his battery?
>
> --
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
>
> kurt schrader wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> >
> >Good question Michel,
> >
> >There are supporters on both sides on this issue too.
> >Angular momentum must be maintained, unless an outside
> >force is applied,... etc, etc... So you already know
> >that a figure skater will spin faster when her arms
> >are pulled in, and slower when her arms are let out.
> >
> >This principle applies to weight distribution, and
> >also to the nose angle in relation to the horizon. As
> >you drop the nose to unstall the plane, it may
> >actually spin faster initially, since the weight is
> >brought closer to the spin axis. But unless the
> >weight is moved, there is probably no difference in
> >the spin between one weight distribution or the other,
> >except structurally.
> >
> >Flat spins can be quite lazy. I know of an accident
> >where a Bonanza got into a flat spin with 4 pax
> >aboard. When the cool headed pilot could not get out
> >of the spin, he noticed that the rate of descent was
> >only 700'/min. He shut down the engine, turned
> >everything off, including the fuel, dropped the gear.
> >Whump...wrecked the plane, but they walked away from
> >it. Don't try this at home.
> >
> >I am not positive, but I think you are always better
> >off using the smallest weight you can, which means
> >light weight furthest aft. One lb at 5 feet aft is 4
> >lbs better than 5 lbs at one foot aft. Same angular
> >momentum, but 4 lbs lighter.
> >
> >Planes with tip tanks are more stable. They get into
> >spins harder and get out of them harder too, just like
> >you said about ground loops. Some planes are designed
> >to shed the tanks in a spin. You could duplicate this
> >by putting a water tank in the tail for releasable
> >weight, and have a cockpit dump handle for spins, if
> >you want to work that hard. :-) I would rather move
> >what I need than add dead weight.
> >
> >BTW, this is my first night back after being bounced
> >off the list. What did I do???
> >
> >Kurt S.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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