Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:17 AM - Re: Plane crash (Mike Chaney)
2. 05:31 AM - Re: Tires (Gill Levesque)
3. 07:46 AM - Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
4. 08:37 AM - Re: Density Altitude WAS: Mass distribution (kurt schrader)
5. 09:25 AM - Re: Mountain flying (kurt schrader)
6. 09:43 AM - Re: Ground Loop repairs underway (Scott McClintock)
7. 01:30 PM - Re: Mountain flying (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
8. 02:59 PM - Re: Ground Loop repairs underway (Clifford Begnaud)
9. 03:56 PM - Re: Plane crash (gjglh@itlnet.net)
10. 06:35 PM - Wing Rigging (Jimmie Blackwell)
11. 08:09 PM - Re: Wing Rigging (kurt schrader)
12. 08:29 PM - Re: Ground Loop repairs underway (kurt schrader)
13. 09:09 PM - Re: Wing Rigging (Flier)
14. 09:18 PM - Re: Mountain flying (kurt schrader)
15. 09:53 PM - Re: Wing Rigging (Lowell Fitt)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
I have not heard anything about this accident, nothing in the paper or any
hanger talk.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Chaney
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
I live just a few miles from Springboro and have seen nothing related to
this nor do I know this individual. I'm suprised that I don't know of
another Fox so close in the area. I will do some research and get back to
the group if I find out anything.
Mike Chaney
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JMCBEAN
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
I'm sorry to hear about that... It was a Series 5 914 powered.. Hope they
are all right....
Blue Skies!!
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clem Nichols
Subject: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Article in today's edition of the Louisville (Ky) Courier Journal:
"Experimental plane crashes in Bath Couty (Ky); 2 aboard hurt. The article
goes on to say that the pilot was John Black of Springboro, Ohio, and the
passenger was his wife, Crystal. The plane was an amateur built Kitfox
according to a spokesperson for the state Division of Emergency Management.
Does anyone know these folks?
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca>
Glen,
what do you want for your "SLICKS"!!!
Gil Levesque
Model 4 582
Canada(summers)
W90 (Forest,VA winters!!)
Glenn Horne <glennflys@rcn.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne"
Glenn Horne here.
Looking fore some tires for my Fox model II.
Has tube gear.
Need two 20x7.00-8. Have the two slick ones
that came with the kit but really don't like them.
Anyone know who sells this size with tread?
Glenn Horne Suffolk, Va.
Still alive and flyin!!!!
Gil
---------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Have been reading this thread for a couple days now. I also read the
thread about Michael's crash. All I would add is that, having learned
to fly in Colorado, the one thing which I heard over, and over, and
over again in all my mountain training was - Don't fly UP Canyon's.
The mountains are littered with the remains of those who try every
year.
Here's Sparky Imeson's website. http://www.mountainflying.com/
After moving to Illinois 8 years ago, there's three things that
became very obvious to me really quickly: 1 - pilots here don't know
what turbulence is. 2 - pilot's here don't have the faintest idea
about mountain flying. 3 - I didn't know anything about flying with
less than 20 miles visibility, let alone in MVFR
Original Message:
-----------------
From: jimshumaker jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
John
Thank you for your speculation about what he might have had. My comment was
about what I saw him loaded with and discussed with him at the Kitfox flyin.
I expressed surprise and concern at the load and position but he assured me
that it was OK. I can not comment on what he had loaded or where it was
loaded in AZ.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
>
> Jim,
>
> Michael was flying a Model IV-1200. It's baggage compartment was limited
to only 40 pounds max. I know he was over grossed with full fuel while on
the trip, but I do not believe he had 150 pounds behind the seat which is
the weight limit for a Series 5, 6 & 7 cargo area. He carried a lot of
weight in the right seat.
>
> --
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
> jimshumaker wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
<jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> >I believe the 150 pounds of baggage behind the seats was contributed
also.
> >
> >Jim Shumaker
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
> >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mass distribution WAS: The Jury is in Foxers
> >
> >
> >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
> >>
> >>To Kurt, Bob, Michel & Others,
> >>
> >>This discussion has led one of my friends and I to think about Michael
> >>
> >>
> >Harter's problem in that Arizona blind canon. His Model IV-1200 was
powered
> >by a Subaru. To correct for the forward CG he mounted the battery way
back
> >in the tail section. We were told by a whiteness that he completed 2 1/2
> >turns prior to impact. The question has come to mind, whether Michael
> >Harter could have been a victim of non-recovery from his spin because of
the
> >extreme aft placement of his battery?
> >
> >
> >>--
> >>John King
> >>Warrenton, VA
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Density Altitude WAS: Mass distribution |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Michel,
Have a great trip!
Yes, you can use my e-mail to use if I can use your
chart. I can convert, ie, 1013.2mb = standard press,
etc.
Kurt S.
--- michel <michel@online.no> wrote:
>>
> >===== Original Message From kurt schrader
> >3. Consider DA!
>
> Thanks a lot, Kurt! Can I get that in signed three
> copies document? :-)
>
> - I went to make my own DA chart.
> Here it is:
>
> http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/DA.pdf
>
>
> ... will read your answer from another continent!
> :-)
>
> Michel
> do not archive
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Mountain flying |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Thanks for the web site Jeff. I put it on my favorite
places list.
When I was flying C-130's out of Adak Alaska, I had a
very senior navigator on board who didn't understand
why we would takeoff down wind over the bay, instead
of upwind over the ridgeline, at that airport. After
all, C-130's were "known" to lift just about anything.
Why let a little hill stop us?
Well, one day when I thought I could control the risk,
or with blind faith, I decided to show him why. We
had a full load of fuel on board. The runway ended
just short of rising terrain that went up maybe 700'
that I remember. We had a good wind coming over the
ridge and down the runway. Sure enough as expected,
the wind reduced our takeoff roll very significantly
in that direction. For a few seconds I know the
navigator felt vindicated.
But we didn't climb. The wind blowing over the ridge
blew DOWN slope. The downdraft cancelled out our
climb and we got all of maybe 50' for the next mile of
runway, aimed straight at 700' of dirt. The plane was
barely flying and it was all this strong plane with
16,000 shaft HP could do. I think I had the whole
crew's attention at that point.
Only when we got to the bottom of the hill did we fall
enough under the downdraft to climb, and there we
stayed paralleling the terrain maybe 50' above it for
the entire 700' to the top. Soon as we cleared I
asked the navigator where we should have gone if we
lost an engine? I figured that this senior navigator
wouldn't tell any junior pilots to take off that way
again.
Once, while an engineer on DC-8's, I had the
"opportunity" to join the other 2 pilots on the flight
controls. Again in Alaska, this time at Anchorage...
The wind shifted while we approached anchorage and we
would now be landing with a tailwind to the runway
previously selected. I advised the captain. He
decided not to make the change. It was the F/O's leg.
Well, this runway approaches over the water with a
cliff right before the runway. What does the wind do
when it blows into the cliff? If you are taking off,
you fly into a cliff induced updraft. Great! But if
you are landing, you get an updraft just before the
runway and a tail wind after that... It got away from
the F/O. The captain jumped in. Not enough! It took
the three of us to keep the plane level and get it
down.
Just like taxiing a taildragger in a wind, you need to
think about what the wind is doing around terrain all
the time. Just because we fly high performance
KitFox's doesn't mean all that performance can't be
easily cancelled out at high DA and/or terrain induced
verticle wind speeds.
One last thing. It is very deceptive to try and find
"level" in the mountains. Too often terrain is
climbing and you don't know it until you notice your
speed still falling off at full power and the terrain
is getting closer. It is truely a hard thing to see.
Always leave a way out, sooner is better than later.
Kurt S.
--- "jeff.hays@aselia.com">
>
> Have been reading this thread for a couple days now.
> I also read the
> thread about Michael's crash. All I would add is
> that, having learned
> to fly in Colorado, the one thing which I heard
> over, and over, and
> over again in all my mountain training was - Don't
> fly UP Canyon's.
> The mountains are littered with the remains of those
> who try every
> year.
>
> Here's Sparky Imeson's website.
> http://www.mountainflying.com/
>
> After moving to Illinois 8 years ago, there's three
> things that
> became very obvious to me really quickly: 1 - pilots
> here don't know
> what turbulence is. 2 - pilot's here don't have the
> faintest idea
> about mountain flying. 3 - I didn't know anything
> about flying with
> less than 20 miles visibility, let alone in MVFR
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ground Loop repairs underway |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
John,
I contacted Grove yesterday and I was pleasantly informed that for the price of
shipping,
they would repair my gear. (no cost)
I was looking at the tailwheel mounting holes last evening and came to the same
conclusion,
the originals were very wimpy and some larger diameter ones will certainly give
me more
piece of mind. Fabbing a more durable support plate should be a snap as well.
Thanks for the advice.
Has anyone replaced their S-5 flaperons with the S-7 ones? I might as well upgrade
mine
while she is in the hangar and I could use some feedback as to if this will be
money well
spent?
Scott in Nome
P.S. No reply from SS on my request for a price quote I sent out Saturday evening.
Sleeping
at the wheel?
"John E. King" wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
>
> Scott,
>
> If it is a grove spring gear, I'm sure they will fix it for you. Check
> it out and give them a call. Your tail wheel bolts are a weak point in
> the early Kitfoxes. They have been known to shear when there is a high
> side load on the tail. I would suggest that you upgrade those two bolts
> to the next larger diameter. That means that the two sleeves may have
> to have a larger ID. While you are at it, why not replace the support
> plate with a thicker material. It is very easy to fabricate.
>
> --
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
> Scott McClintock wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
> >
> >Michel,
> >Yes, I have been preparing myself, but I was really taken by surprise by this
one.
> >
> >When I took off on Saturday afternoon, the winds were from 040 @ 12 gusting
to 18.
> >
> >This was OK as the A/P R/W runs 3/21 so off we went (yes, I had a passenger)
> >taking off on R/W 3.
> >Great T/O and the 2 hr. local flight was fantastic and we got a lot of good
> >pictures and video of the fast leaving sea ice
> >and a huge herd of caribou (reindeer). On the way back to 94Z (my field) I called
> >FSS and they informed me that the wind were now from 220 light and variable.
No
> >problem, I tell myself now we land on R/W 21. Got ourselves all set up, perfect
> >approach, "greased" the landing and my passenger congratulated me on a great
> >flight. No sooner did he get those words out when the wind made a sudden shift
> >from the west and we began drifting that direction. So, as a good tailwheel
pilot,
> >I gave her some left rudder, IAS was 40 mph or less (my A/P indicator doesn't
read
> >below 40 mph) I wasn't getting any rudder authority so I pushed left rudder
fully
> >and gave it a shot of power to get some air over the rudder. Nothing, just kept
> >going right, now sliding, sliding, the wing tip touched and we stopped just
short
> >of off the R/W.
> >My left spring gear bent inward, tailwheel bolts broke, dinged my wing tip and
> >flaperon tip. Had to tow her back with the tail on the tailgate of my pickup.
I
> >have tried to not beat myself up too badly and I know I did everything I could
to
> >prevent this, but my ego is bruised. At least my passenger took it in stride
and
> >has a great "Alaska Flying Story" to tell all his buddies when he returns to
> >Portland next week.
> >I'm going to seal the rudder gap and hope that it helps somewhat but when you
are
> >going (maybe 35 mph) there's not much air passing over it anyway.
> >Some of the guys have suggested that the gear can be re-bent, but I'm not too
keen
> >on that. I'm sure it is a Grove and maybe they will warranty it.
> >If not, it will cost me $950 to replace (ouch) plus whatever the freight is.
> >(SkyStar wants $1650, yeah, right)
> >Sure "bums me out" as I was going to fly her to Kotzebue yesterday to do a
> >surveying job and I had to spend money with the local air taxi guys instead.
> >I'm anxious to get her fixed and "get back into the saddle" soon.
> >Thanks for the sympathy.
> >Scott in Nome
> >
> >DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> >michel wrote:
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Mountain flying |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
In a message dated 5/5/2004 12:35:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes:
One last thing. It is very deceptive to try and find
"level" in the mountains. Too often terrain is
climbing and you don't know it until you notice your
speed still falling off at full power and the terrain
is getting closer. It is truely a hard thing to see.
Always leave a way out, sooner is better than later.
Kurt S.
Kurt, This is good info that all of us should keep in mind. It is such a
shame Mike Harter was lost to this very situation.
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Outback, (out back in the garage)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ground Loop repairs underway |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Scott,
Got a couple of hours in a model 7 with the new flaperons. I noticed in
maneuvering flight that they made the plane feel a little less responsive
than the old type. I couldn't tell you if they lowered the stall speed or
not because no two planes are alike and the only way to compare would be to
actually fly the same plane with both flaperon types. But my guess is that
there is a very small reduction in stall speed.
Perhaps there is a little less adverse yaw with the new flaperons.
If you are looking to lower stall speed, I think VG's would be money better
spent, but if you want to go all out for lowest possible stall, well, do
both ;-).
Best Regards,
Cliff
Kitfox 5, lyc 0-235
Erie, CO
>
> John,
> I contacted Grove yesterday and I was pleasantly informed that for the
price of shipping,
> they would repair my gear. (no cost)
> I was looking at the tailwheel mounting holes last evening and came to the
same conclusion,
> the originals were very wimpy and some larger diameter ones will certainly
give me more
> piece of mind. Fabbing a more durable support plate should be a snap as
well.
> Thanks for the advice.
> Has anyone replaced their S-5 flaperons with the S-7 ones? I might as well
upgrade mine
> while she is in the hangar and I could use some feedback as to if this
will be money well
> spent?
> Scott in Nome
> P.S. No reply from SS on my request for a price quote I sent out Saturday
evening. Sleeping
> at the wheel?
>
> "John E. King" wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
> >
> > Scott,
> >
> > If it is a grove spring gear, I'm sure they will fix it for you. Check
> > it out and give them a call. Your tail wheel bolts are a weak point in
> > the early Kitfoxes. They have been known to shear when there is a high
> > side load on the tail. I would suggest that you upgrade those two bolts
> > to the next larger diameter. That means that the two sleeves may have
> > to have a larger ID. While you are at it, why not replace the support
> > plate with a thicker material. It is very easy to fabricate.
> >
> > --
> > John King
> > Warrenton, VA
> >
> > Scott McClintock wrote:
> >
> > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock
<scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
> > >
> > >Michel,
> > >Yes, I have been preparing myself, but I was really taken by surprise
by this one.
> > >
> > >When I took off on Saturday afternoon, the winds were from 040 @ 12
gusting to 18.
> > >
> > >This was OK as the A/P R/W runs 3/21 so off we went (yes, I had a
passenger)
> > >taking off on R/W 3.
> > >Great T/O and the 2 hr. local flight was fantastic and we got a lot of
good
> > >pictures and video of the fast leaving sea ice
> > >and a huge herd of caribou (reindeer). On the way back to 94Z (my
field) I called
> > >FSS and they informed me that the wind were now from 220 light and
variable. No
> > >problem, I tell myself now we land on R/W 21. Got ourselves all set up,
perfect
> > >approach, "greased" the landing and my passenger congratulated me on a
great
> > >flight. No sooner did he get those words out when the wind made a
sudden shift
> > >from the west and we began drifting that direction. So, as a good
tailwheel pilot,
> > >I gave her some left rudder, IAS was 40 mph or less (my A/P indicator
doesn't read
> > >below 40 mph) I wasn't getting any rudder authority so I pushed left
rudder fully
> > >and gave it a shot of power to get some air over the rudder. Nothing,
just kept
> > >going right, now sliding, sliding, the wing tip touched and we stopped
just short
> > >of off the R/W.
> > >My left spring gear bent inward, tailwheel bolts broke, dinged my wing
tip and
> > >flaperon tip. Had to tow her back with the tail on the tailgate of my
pickup. I
> > >have tried to not beat myself up too badly and I know I did everything
I could to
> > >prevent this, but my ego is bruised. At least my passenger took it in
stride and
> > >has a great "Alaska Flying Story" to tell all his buddies when he
returns to
> > >Portland next week.
> > >I'm going to seal the rudder gap and hope that it helps somewhat but
when you are
> > >going (maybe 35 mph) there's not much air passing over it anyway.
> > >Some of the guys have suggested that the gear can be re-bent, but I'm
not too keen
> > >on that. I'm sure it is a Grove and maybe they will warranty it.
> > >If not, it will cost me $950 to replace (ouch) plus whatever the
freight is.
> > >(SkyStar wants $1650, yeah, right)
> > >Sure "bums me out" as I was going to fly her to Kotzebue yesterday to
do a
> > >surveying job and I had to spend money with the local air taxi guys
instead.
> > >I'm anxious to get her fixed and "get back into the saddle" soon.
> > >Thanks for the sympathy.
> > >Scott in Nome
> > >
> > >DO NOT ARCHIVE
> > >
> > >michel wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: gjglh@itlnet.net
This could be the plane??
An investigation is underway as authorities try to figure out what
happened in the skies above central Kentucky.
Wednesday, a single-engine plane went down in a field in Bath County.
The pilot and passenger, John and Crystal Black, were flying from
Springboro, Ohio to Florida.
Crystal Black was treated and released. John Black remains
hospitalized at UK.
Late Thursday morning, the Federal Aviation Administration arrived at
the crash site. They're trying to determine what caused the plane to
crash.
FAA investigators are looking at the devices inside the experimental
Kitfox plane and they're looking at the area surrounding the plane.
Witnesses and police say the plane lost power around 3pm Wednesday
while flying at an altitude of 6,200 feet.
Witnesses say the pilot circled the field several times, trying to
avoid nearby houses, before diving nose first into the field.
The pilot, John Black, suffered broken bones in his legs. He
underwent surgery Wednesday night at UK Medical Center.
The passenger, John's wife Crystal, had cuts and bruises on her legs.
She was treated and released.
---- Original Message ----
From: mdps_mc@swoca.net
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
>
>I have not heard anything about this accident, nothing in the paper
>or any
>hanger talk.
>
>Mike
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike
>Chaney
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Chaney <mdps_mc@SWOCA.NET>
>
>I live just a few miles from Springboro and have seen nothing related
>to
>this nor do I know this individual. I'm suprised that I don't know
>of
>another Fox so close in the area. I will do some research and get
>back to
>the group if I find out anything.
>Mike Chaney
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JMCBEAN
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JMCBEAN" <JDMCBEAN@cableone.net>
>
>I'm sorry to hear about that... It was a Series 5 914 powered.. Hope
>they
>are all right....
>
>Blue Skies!!
>John & Debra McBean
>"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clem
>Nichols
>To: kitfox list
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Plane crash
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols"
><cnichols@scrtc.com>
>
>Article in today's edition of the Louisville (Ky) Courier Journal:
>
>"Experimental plane crashes in Bath Couty (Ky); 2 aboard hurt. The
>article
>goes on to say that the pilot was John Black of Springboro, Ohio, and
>the
>passenger was his wife, Crystal. The plane was an amateur built
>Kitfox
>according to a spokesperson for the state Division of Emergency
>Management.
>Does anyone know these folks?
>
>
>=====
>=====
>=====
>=====
>
>
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
I am in the process of rigging the wings on my Model IV Speedster. Having adjusted
the wing strut brackets for dihedral and twist, my left wing only has only
4" of clearance between the wing trailing edge and the horizontal stabilizer
when folded. Right wing has 6" of clearance. According to Skystar manual and
Service Bulletin 25B at least 5" of clearance is needed between the trailing
edge of the wing and the horizontal stabilizer to fold the wings. Also, according
to Skystar manual the solution is to increase the dihedral to obtain the
necessary clearance for folding the wings.
My concern is that if I correct this problem by increasing the dihedral I may
have to go beyond the .31" to .35" dihedral specified in Skystar Service bulletin
25B. Am hoping that some of you ran into this problem and found a solution
that will allow the wings to fold and have an acceptable dihedral setting.
The only holes drilled so far are the top of the rear spar connecting to the fuselage.
Would really appreciate the benefit of your experiences.
Jimmie
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Rigging |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Jimmie,
I don't have the model IV, so I don't know for sure if
there is any structural interference to worry about in
raising the low wing, but I would think not. I think
that SS just wants you to have enough dihedral. Flat
wings mean very little turning with the rudder in a
high wing, and probably none in a low wing.
So as for aerodynamics and the way yours would fly,
too little dihedral would be a problem, but you would
have to go more than a few inches up to have too much
dihedral. I'd say to just go ahead and raise the low
wing that inch to get the minimum clearance. It will
be a very small angle change.
Kurt S. KF-5
--- Jimmie Blackwell <jablackwell@ev1.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie
> Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
> I am in the process of rigging the wings on my Model
> IV Speedster. Having adjusted the wing strut
> brackets for dihedral and twist, my left wing only
> has only 4" of clearance between the wing trailing
> edge and the horizontal stabilizer when folded.
> Right wing has 6" of clearance. According to
> Skystar manual and Service Bulletin 25B at least 5"
> of clearance is needed between the trailing edge of
> the wing and the horizontal stabilizer to fold the
> wings. Also, according to Skystar manual the
> solution is to increase the dihedral to obtain the
> necessary clearance for folding the wings.
>
> My concern is that if I correct this problem by
> increasing the dihedral I may have to go beyond the
> .31" to .35" dihedral specified in Skystar Service
> bulletin 25B. Am hoping that some of you ran into
> this problem and found a solution that will allow
> the wings to fold and have an acceptable dihedral
> setting.
>
> The only holes drilled so far are the top of the
> rear spar connecting to the fuselage.
>
> Would really appreciate the benefit of your
> experiences.
>
> Jimmie
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Ground Loop repairs underway |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Scott,
I think you'll be glad you got Grove gear....
I put larger bolts in the tail too. Also made an
alum. block to hold the springs and transfer energy to
both bolts and both sides of the mount no matter which
way you turn. Someone else did the same in nylon and
put pictures on SportFlight. Worth considering.
I agree with Cliff. I initially thought about
converting to the new flapperons on my plane too. If
I remember correctly, SS says that the new flapperons
lower stall speed by 3%? Wow. That is less than 1.5
mph. They should also shorten your landing distance
by maybe 9'.
But VG's will do better for minimum cost. That is the
way I intend to go. Much less installation work too.
Or in other words, I don't land accurately enough to
notice the difference in the new flapperons, but I
might with VG's.
Kurt S.
--- Clifford Begnaud <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
wrote:
>
> Scott,
> Got a couple of hours in a model 7 with the new
> flaperons. I noticed in
> maneuvering flight that they made the plane feel a
> little less responsive
> than the old type. I couldn't tell you if they
> lowered the stall speed or
> not because no two planes are alike and the only way
> to compare would be to
> actually fly the same plane with both flaperon
> types. But my guess is that
> there is a very small reduction in stall speed.
> Perhaps there is a little less adverse yaw with the
> new flaperons.
> If you are looking to lower stall speed, I think
> VG's would be money better
> spent, but if you want to go all out for lowest
> possible stall, well, do
> both ;-).
> Best Regards,
> Cliff
> Kitfox 5, lyc 0-235
> Erie, CO
>
>
> > John,
> > I contacted Grove yesterday and I was pleasantly
> informed that for the price of shipping,
> > they would repair my gear. (no cost)
> > I was looking at the tailwheel mounting holes last
> evening and came to the same conclusion,
> > the originals were very wimpy and some larger
> diameter ones will certainly give me more
> > piece of mind. Fabbing a more durable support
> plate should be a snap as well.
> > Thanks for the advice.
> > Has anyone replaced their S-5 flaperons with the
> S-7 ones? I might as well
> upgrade mine
> > while she is in the hangar and I could use some
> feedback as to if this will be money well spent?
> > Scott in Nome
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
Jimmie,
I checked my IV and you need to make sure you have the 5" otherwise you'll
run into problems with flaperon interference when you fold the wing. Not
sure if you have the hold-back struts with the attach through the vert stab
but that will also be a problem.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie
Blackwell
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing Rigging
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
I am in the process of rigging the wings on my Model IV Speedster. Having
adjusted the wing strut brackets for dihedral and twist, my left wing only
has only 4" of clearance between the wing trailing edge and the horizontal
stabilizer when folded. Right wing has 6" of clearance. According to
Skystar manual and Service Bulletin 25B at least 5" of clearance is needed
between the trailing edge of the wing and the horizontal stabilizer to fold
the wings. Also, according to Skystar manual the solution is to increase
the dihedral to obtain the necessary clearance for folding the wings.
My concern is that if I correct this problem by increasing the dihedral I
may have to go beyond the .31" to .35" dihedral specified in Skystar Service
bulletin 25B. Am hoping that some of you ran into this problem and found a
solution that will allow the wings to fold and have an acceptable dihedral
setting.
The only holes drilled so far are the top of the rear spar connecting to the
fuselage.
Would really appreciate the benefit of your experiences.
Jimmie
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Mountain flying |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I keep Andrew Wikstrom's account of Michael's last day
on my computer, along with some other Harter related
stuff. I don't know of anyone who didn't like him.
Andrew did an excellent job of recounting the day. He
included that the DA was about 9500' and that Michael
was just under the 1200# gross weight. They had
talked earlier about going over the Grand Canyon, but
Michael knew he could not make the 11,500' MSL
restriction easily enough to attempt it.
Michael did hug the left canyon wall before trying to
turn. I had forgotten that. Andrew was concerned
several times before that canyon about Mike's AGL
height and cautioned him. Andrew stayed about 800'
higher and still was insecure enough to turn out of
that canyon first while telling Michael to do the
same.
Then Andrew said, "I watched Michael as he made every
attempt to reverse his fate. I talked with him on the
radio as he tried everything in his power to bring his
plane out of that canyon."
This was shortly after another great man, Ray Volk,
died in his brother's arms when he crashed. I have
Ray's plane pictured on my computer too. It was one
of the first KitFox's I admired.
Sometimes we should review the pain so as not to re-do
the pain. IMHO
Kurt S.
--- KITFOXZ@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/5/2004 12:35:13 PM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes:
> One last thing. It is very deceptive to try and
> find
> "level" in the mountains. Too often terrain is
> climbing and you don't know it until you notice your
> speed still falling off at full power and the
> terrain
> is getting closer. It is truely a hard thing to
> see.
> Always leave a way out, sooner is better than later.
>
> Kurt S.
> Kurt, This is good info that all of us should keep
> in mind. It is such a
> shame Mike Harter was lost to this very situation.
>
> John P. Marzluf
> Columbus, Ohio
> Outback, (out back in the garage)
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Rigging |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Jimmie,
Are you referring to Speedster specs? As I was building I was thinking of
clipping the wings like the speedster, but the dihedral was already set for
the long wing configuration. I called Skystar and asked about the dihedral
issue and they said that the dihedral for the speedster was a largely a
cosmetic consideration. That said, I have since been led to understand
that a flatter dihedral has less drag and that may have been an issue in the
Speedster design also.
Mark, one of the guys I fly with regularly had a Model IV with quite steep
dihedral, much more than the average Kitfox. He referred to his airplane as
the pigeon - someone else had built it.
Anyway, I don't think you will markedly affect your airplanes performance by
increasing the dihedral on the one side an inch.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing Rigging
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
<jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
> I am in the process of rigging the wings on my Model IV Speedster. Having
adjusted the wing strut brackets for dihedral and twist, my left wing only
has only 4" of clearance between the wing trailing edge and the horizontal
stabilizer when folded. Right wing has 6" of clearance. According to
Skystar manual and Service Bulletin 25B at least 5" of clearance is needed
between the trailing edge of the wing and the horizontal stabilizer to fold
the wings. Also, according to Skystar manual the solution is to increase
the dihedral to obtain the necessary clearance for folding the wings.
>
> My concern is that if I correct this problem by increasing the dihedral I
may have to go beyond the .31" to .35" dihedral specified in Skystar Service
bulletin 25B. Am hoping that some of you ran into this problem and found a
solution that will allow the wings to fold and have an acceptable dihedral
setting.
>
> The only holes drilled so far are the top of the rear spar connecting to
the fuselage.
>
> Would really appreciate the benefit of your experiences.
>
> Jimmie
>
>
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