Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:02 AM - Pilot Haven. NY (Graeme Toft)
2. 03:52 AM - Re: Pilot Haven. NY (michel)
3. 04:50 AM - Re: Pilot Haven. NY (Fox5flyer)
4. 04:55 AM - Avid falling/ C of G (Lmar)
5. 05:17 AM - Re: Pilot Haven. NY (Clem Nichols)
6. 05:20 AM - Pilot Haven. NY (hausding, sid)
7. 05:23 AM - Re: Garmin Dealer? (Clifford Begnaud)
8. 05:33 AM - Re:196 (Gary Algate)
9. 05:35 AM - Re: Garmin Dealer? (Gary Algate)
10. 06:06 AM - Re: 582 EGT (jareds)
11. 06:38 AM - Re: Avid falling/ C of G (Paul Seehafer)
12. 08:30 AM - Re: Avid falling/ C of G (Steve Cooper)
13. 08:38 AM - Re: Garmin Dealer? (Steve Cooper)
14. 09:45 AM - Re: Garmin Dealer? (George Wells)
15. 10:21 AM - Re: Garmin Dealer? (Clifford Begnaud)
16. 11:47 AM - Re: Avid dropping out in flair (Michel Verheughe)
17. 12:01 PM - Re - Pilot Haven NY (Graeme Toft)
18. 12:02 PM - Re: 582 EGT (Michel Verheughe)
19. 12:03 PM - Re: 582 EGT (Bruce Harrington)
20. 12:07 PM - (Off-topic) Hollywood (Michel Verheughe)
21. 12:21 PM - Re: 582 EGT (Bruce Harrington)
22. 01:17 PM - Re: Avid falling/ C of G (Paul Seehafer)
23. 02:01 PM - Re: Avid dropping out in flair (Steve Cooper)
24. 02:12 PM - Far far away............. (hausding, sid)
25. 02:26 PM - KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... (David & Maria Lumgair)
26. 02:31 PM - Re: 582 EGT (Michel Verheughe)
27. 02:34 PM - Re: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... (Steve Cooper)
28. 02:44 PM - Re: Avid dropping out in flair (Michel Verheughe)
29. 03:20 PM - Re: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... (Steve Zakreski)
30. 03:32 PM - Model II (Dee Young)
31. 03:33 PM - Re: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... (Dee Young)
32. 04:36 PM - Re: 582 EGT (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
33. 04:40 PM - Re: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
34. 04:54 PM - Re: 582 EGT (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
35. 05:15 PM - Re: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... (Lowell Fitt)
36. 05:58 PM - Re: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... (Glenn Horne)
37. 06:44 PM - Re: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... (Jerry Liles)
38. 07:50 PM - Re: 582 EGT (david yeamans)
39. 09:06 PM - Re: 582 EGT (Rick)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Hey Foxers, just a note to the rebuilders and those wanting aviation equipment.
I have had a bad experience on EBay with a NY business called Pilot Haven. Paid
for an Icom A 22 and got zip. The moral of the story is if you want to protect
your hard earned dollars and get value for money, deal with people you know
or those recommended through a credible source. Im $600 down and will right
the experience off as being gullible but dont you just hate being ripped off.
Still smilin.
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: michel <michel@online.no>
>===== Original Message From "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net> =====
>I have had a bad experience on EBay with a NY business called Pilot Haven.
Is it "Pilot Haven" or "Pilots Haven," Graeme?
http://www.pilotshaven.com/
Are those the guys? Did you call them? A shame I am no longer in NY, I could
have used my leadpipe and aim for their knees. I also have nice cement shoes
that look great at the bottom of the Hudson River! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot Haven. NY |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Items for Sale by pilotshaven( 0 )
I'm sorry to hear about your problem Graeme. Ebay's a great place to shop,
but there's still a small gamble each time you place a bid. I just did a
search on ebay and came up with the above result. This means they're not
currently offering anything on ebay or that they've been pinched off because
of complaints. Have you gone through the process of complaint reporting?
Have you called their store in NY? If I was stiffed for that much money I'd
bombard them with everything I could throw, including certified letters, and
copies of letters to the BBB and local chamber of commerce. Maybe even have
my cousin Guido stop by for a little "collecting".
Pilots Haven Inc.2003
5507-10 Nesconset Highway Unit 163 MT. Sinai NY 11766
Toll Free 1.800.749.8119 Fax 1.877.853.6240 E-mail info@pilotshaven.com
Anyway, glad you're still smilin' (I wouldn't be), good luck, and thanks for
the heads up.
Darrel
> Hey Foxers, just a note to the rebuilders and those wanting aviation
equipment. I have had a bad experience on EBay with a NY business called
Pilot Haven. Paid for an Icom A 22 and got zip. The moral of the story is if
you want to protect your hard earned dollars and get value for money, deal
with people you know or those recommended through a credible source. Im $600
down and will right the experience off as being gullible but dont you just
hate being ripped off.
>
> Still smilin.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Avid falling/ C of G |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lmar <my93avid@yahoo.com>
I agree with Steve in finding that a C of G around 14" or aft is best for the Avid.
I went through the same problems with the "stock" engine. When I got the
airplane it would 'fall out of the sky" on landing. The c of g on paper showed
it in range. I finally moved things to obtain a more aft condition, with
improvement with each change. I have found that the max forward while keeping
good flare attributes is about 14". The Avid was designed to be a bit nose heavy
AND it had a 40 lb LIGHTER engine than the 582. Unlike the Fox, Avid did
not lengthen the fuselage with the increase weight. Therefore, IMHO, most Avids
are flying around far too nose heavy even though they are within the correct
range. When I moved mine aft to 14" (limit 16.5) it was a whole new airplane!
I can land full flaps, power off and tail wheel 1st! What fun
---------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Pilot Haven. NY |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Graem:
I'm sure you know that E-Bay has a policy in place for reimbursing you at
least a portion of your loss in this type circumstance. Details on their
web-site.
Clem Nichols
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Pilot Haven. NY
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Items for Sale by pilotshaven( 0 )
> I'm sorry to hear about your problem Graeme. Ebay's a great place to
shop,
> but there's still a small gamble each time you place a bid. I just did a
> search on ebay and came up with the above result. This means they're not
> currently offering anything on ebay or that they've been pinched off
because
> of complaints. Have you gone through the process of complaint reporting?
> Have you called their store in NY? If I was stiffed for that much money
I'd
> bombard them with everything I could throw, including certified letters,
and
> copies of letters to the BBB and local chamber of commerce. Maybe even
have
> my cousin Guido stop by for a little "collecting".
>
> Pilots Haven Inc.2003
> 5507-10 Nesconset Highway Unit 163 MT. Sinai NY 11766
> Toll Free 1.800.749.8119 Fax 1.877.853.6240 E-mail info@pilotshaven.com
>
> Anyway, glad you're still smilin' (I wouldn't be), good luck, and thanks
for
> the heads up.
> Darrel
>
>
> > Hey Foxers, just a note to the rebuilders and those wanting aviation
> equipment. I have had a bad experience on EBay with a NY business called
> Pilot Haven. Paid for an Icom A 22 and got zip. The moral of the story is
if
> you want to protect your hard earned dollars and get value for money, deal
> with people you know or those recommended through a credible source. Im
$600
> down and will right the experience off as being gullible but dont you just
> hate being ripped off.
> >
> > Still smilin.
>
>
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
I would be tempted to contact the local EAA and see if a member could
assist also........money is money and somebody might know somebody that
knows somebody...........anyway, try the local chapter and see if someone
there might have an idea? Aviation doesn't need anymore black eyes and we
are a pretty tight knit group. Maybe "Guido", or "Guiseppe" belong........
...
Sid
--------------------
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Items for Sale by pilotshaven( 0 )
I'm sorry to hear about your problem Graeme. Ebay's a great place to shop,
but there's still a small gamble each time you place a bid. I just did a
search on ebay and came up with the above result. This means they're not
currently offering anything on ebay or that they've been pinched off because
of complaints. Have you gone through the process of complaint reporting?
Have you called their store in NY? If I was stiffed for that much money I'd
bombard them with everything I could throw, including certified letters, and
copies of letters to the BBB and local chamber of commerce. Maybe even have
my cousin Guido stop by for a little "collecting".
Pilots Haven Inc.2003
5507-10 Nesconset Highway Unit 163 MT. Sinai NY 11766
Toll Free 1.800.749.8119 Fax 1.877.853.6240 E-mail info@pilotshaven.com
Anyway, glad you're still smilin' (I wouldn't be), good luck, and thanks for
the heads up.
Darrel
> Hey Foxers, just a note to the rebuilders and those wanting aviation
equipment. I have had a bad experience on EBay with a NY business called
Pilot Haven. Paid for an Icom A 22 and got zip. The moral of the story is if
you want to protect your hard earned dollars and get value for money, deal
with people you know or those recommended through a credible source. Im $600
down and will right the experience off as being gullible but dont you just
hate being ripped off.
>
> Still smilin.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Dealer? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Steve,
Thanks for the input.
> 1. The color unit draws a lot more current. My 196 will run for 12 hours
on
> a new set of Duracells.
I will install a power port in the panel, so battery life won't be an issue.
> 2. who needs terrain following in a Kitfox?.
Well, I don't really NEED terrain following, but I had an obstical database
in my Lowrance and used it often. The 296 is the only garmin with an
obstacle database (radio towers) and that is very useful here in the lower
48.
> 3. It is difficult to see the color on the 296 in bright sunlight.
Really! There are so few out there I'm surprised that you've had the
opportunity to fly with a 296. Tell me more! I've flown with a 295 and it
seemed ok.
> I looked at a 295 (marine/color) when I bought my 196 and decided I'd give
> them a couple more generations before I opted for color.
Hmm, maybe you meant to say "295" when you referenced the difficulty of
seeing color in bright sunlight?
>
> Have you tried Ebay?
I forgot to do that, there's two on there, one used at nearly full price and
one new one at full price. If I don't find one before the auction ends, I
may bid on it.
Best Regards,
Cliff
Message 8
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1.9 DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06 Date: is 3 to 6 hours after Received: date
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
I also use the 196 and you can program obstacle position and height and have
the unit alarm you when you approach a pre-programmed proximity limit.
It's a great unit - especially the way it logs your flights, landings,
route, duration and average speed.
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
> 2. who needs terrain following in a Kitfox?.
Well, I don't really NEED terrain following, but I had an obstical database
in my Lowrance and used it often. The 296 is the only garmin with an
obstacle database (radio towers) and that is very useful here in the lower
48.
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Woops in my last post I said I had a 196 Garmin - in fact I believe it's a
296
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
WOW thanks for the tips bob, don!!
Been dyin to have a rotax expert join the ranks of the list for sometime!!
Especially for us 582 guys!!
Bob Robertson wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" <aerocon1@telusplanet.net>
>
>Hi Don, Jared
>
>Jared, ...Don has it right...swap out the EGT probes and see if the problem
>follows the lead. If yes..its a probe problem..if not its an engine
>problem.
>If your EGT differences are maintained at W.O.T. then Don has it nailed.
>The difference is caused by one cylinder being leaner, or richer, than the
>other. This can be caused by:
>1. Poor (leaky)crankcase seals (in medium use engines these should be
>erplaced every 150/175 hours. High use engines can get away with 250 to 300
>hrs before requiring change).
>2. Stuck piston rings.
>3. Improper carburetor float level
>4. Float needle not seating properly.
>5. Carburetors not in sync.
>The engine "should" run perfectly with both carbs set the same. If you
>require more that one clip position difference (about a 50 degree F change
>per clip position)to even out the temps you should look to some of the above
>as culprit.
>
>Hope the above helps
>
>Bob Robertson
>Light Engine Services Ltd.
>Rotax Service Center
>St. Albert, Ab.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 EGT
>
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>>
>>Its in the higher RPMs that i took the time to write down these numbers
>>this year!
>>Won't moving the clip on one of the carbs effect this drastically. I
>>thought the clips need to be in same position for both?
>>
>>AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>Jared,
>> When you are at "FULL" throttle, the "main" jets are doing all the
>>
>>
>work.
>
>
>>The "clips" are out of the picture at full throttle and only play when at
>>
>>
>3/4
>
>
>>throttle or there abouts. Therefore, if your EGT's are off at full
>>
>>
>throttle,
>
>
>>the main jets might be the problem.. If off at cruise (3/4 throttle) then
>>the clips might be the problem. I would still question the EGT
>>
>>
>probes/guages
>
>
>>before I went too much further. Swapping the EGT probes will help settle
>>
>>
>the
>
>
>>question on whether you have a high temp cylinder or not. You could be
>>
>>
>chasing
>
>
>>an instrumentation problem
>>
>>Don Smythe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Avid falling/ C of G |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Lmar;
I agree with your comments about nose-heavy Avids. Even the prototype Avid
(N99AF) with the Cuyuna was nose heavy and exhibited some of the problems in
the flare of running out of elevator (I flew the prototype 300+ hours).
Yet, the true and accurate stall on that airplane was between 20 and 22 mph.
Seriously. And later I put another 500 hours on another early A-model Avid
with a 532. Stall speeds on that were the same, and it exhibited the same
drop out during the flare. Also had a very forward cg. Incidentally both
of these Avids described had a fuselage fuel tank with no wing tanks. The
wing tanks added to the later model Avids helped to bring the c.g. back.
Later I test flew a Mark IV with a 618 in it for a friend, and consequently
flew the 40 hours off of it so he could get his license in it. I was amazed
how that airplane which weighed 625 lbs (vs the prototype at 360 lbs and the
other 532 A-model at 396 lbs) felt better in the landing flare due to it
being better balanced. In fact, it could be landed slower than the A-models
because of it. And yet the stall was double what the A-model's were. This
is especially interesting when you consider that the wing on all three
aircraft was identical. (I do admit you could land the A-models extremely
slow if you kept a lot of power on to arrest the sink rate, but you wouldn't
want to do this on a regular basis. Sooner or later you'd get a hickup in
your landing and you'd find yourself coming down like a ton of bricks. A
lot of early Avid and Kitfox pilots wrecked their airplanes by landing them
too slow.)
So weight and balance is a critical factor obviously. Kitfox or Avid.
Paul Seehafer
Wisconsin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lmar" <my93avid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Avid falling/ C of G
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lmar <my93avid@yahoo.com>
>
> I agree with Steve in finding that a C of G around 14" or aft is best for
the Avid. I went through the same problems with the "stock" engine. When I
got the airplane it would 'fall out of the sky" on landing. The c of g on
paper showed it in range. I finally moved things to obtain a more aft
condition, with improvement with each change. I have found that the max
forward while keeping good flare attributes is about 14". The Avid was
designed to be a bit nose heavy AND it had a 40 lb LIGHTER engine than the
582. Unlike the Fox, Avid did not lengthen the fuselage with the increase
weight. Therefore, IMHO, most Avids are flying around far too nose heavy
even though they are within the correct range. When I moved mine aft to 14"
(limit 16.5) it was a whole new airplane! I can land full flaps, power off
and tail wheel 1st! What fun
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Avid falling/ C of G |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Hey Paul...thanks a bunch for your post. It validates the CG adjustments
I've made. I knew that if I didn't get the problem under control, that it
would eventually bite me really hard. ...and it almost did a couple of
times. It's scarey flying a plane that drops out like that...you know that
eventually, your going to have to land it. Actually, I think my plane flys
better now all the way around...even turns in windy gusty conditions are
smoother. the plane just seems to track better through the turn.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Avid falling/ C of G
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>
> Lmar;
>
> I agree with your comments about nose-heavy Avids. Even the prototype
Avid
> (N99AF) with the Cuyuna was nose heavy and exhibited some of the problems
in
> the flare of running out of elevator (I flew the prototype 300+ hours).
> Yet, the true and accurate stall on that airplane was between 20 and 22
mph.
> Seriously. And later I put another 500 hours on another early A-model
Avid
> with a 532. Stall speeds on that were the same, and it exhibited the same
> drop out during the flare. Also had a very forward cg. Incidentally both
> of these Avids described had a fuselage fuel tank with no wing tanks. The
> wing tanks added to the later model Avids helped to bring the c.g. back.
>
> Later I test flew a Mark IV with a 618 in it for a friend, and
consequently
> flew the 40 hours off of it so he could get his license in it. I was
amazed
> how that airplane which weighed 625 lbs (vs the prototype at 360 lbs and
the
> other 532 A-model at 396 lbs) felt better in the landing flare due to it
> being better balanced. In fact, it could be landed slower than the
A-models
> because of it. And yet the stall was double what the A-model's were.
This
> is especially interesting when you consider that the wing on all three
> aircraft was identical. (I do admit you could land the A-models extremely
> slow if you kept a lot of power on to arrest the sink rate, but you
wouldn't
> want to do this on a regular basis. Sooner or later you'd get a hickup in
> your landing and you'd find yourself coming down like a ton of bricks. A
> lot of early Avid and Kitfox pilots wrecked their airplanes by landing
them
> too slow.)
>
> So weight and balance is a critical factor obviously. Kitfox or Avid.
>
> Paul Seehafer
> Wisconsin
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lmar" <my93avid@yahoo.com>
> To: <Kitfox-List@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Avid falling/ C of G
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lmar <my93avid@yahoo.com>
> >
> > I agree with Steve in finding that a C of G around 14" or aft is best
for
> the Avid. I went through the same problems with the "stock" engine. When
I
> got the airplane it would 'fall out of the sky" on landing. The c of g on
> paper showed it in range. I finally moved things to obtain a more aft
> condition, with improvement with each change. I have found that the max
> forward while keeping good flare attributes is about 14". The Avid was
> designed to be a bit nose heavy AND it had a 40 lb LIGHTER engine than the
> 582. Unlike the Fox, Avid did not lengthen the fuselage with the increase
> weight. Therefore, IMHO, most Avids are flying around far too nose heavy
> even though they are within the correct range. When I moved mine aft to
14"
> (limit 16.5) it was a whole new airplane! I can land full flaps, power
off
> and tail wheel 1st! What fun
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Dealer? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Ya, sorry Cliff. It was the 295 that I had difficulty seeing well in bright
sunlight.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Garmin Dealer?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
>
> Steve,
> Thanks for the input.
> > 1. The color unit draws a lot more current. My 196 will run for 12 hours
> on
> > a new set of Duracells.
>
> I will install a power port in the panel, so battery life won't be an
issue.
>
> > 2. who needs terrain following in a Kitfox?.
>
> Well, I don't really NEED terrain following, but I had an obstical
database
> in my Lowrance and used it often. The 296 is the only garmin with an
> obstacle database (radio towers) and that is very useful here in the lower
> 48.
>
>
> > 3. It is difficult to see the color on the 296 in bright sunlight.
>
> Really! There are so few out there I'm surprised that you've had the
> opportunity to fly with a 296. Tell me more! I've flown with a 295 and it
> seemed ok.
>
> > I looked at a 295 (marine/color) when I bought my 196 and decided I'd
give
> > them a couple more generations before I opted for color.
>
> Hmm, maybe you meant to say "295" when you referenced the difficulty of
> seeing color in bright sunlight?
>
> >
> > Have you tried Ebay?
>
> I forgot to do that, there's two on there, one used at nearly full price
and
> one new one at full price. If I don't find one before the auction ends, I
> may bid on it.
> Best Regards,
> Cliff
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Dealer? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "George Wells" <georgewells@adelphia.net>
Try WWW.tropicaero.com
George
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin Dealer? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Thanks, George, I'm on their waiting list.
Cliff
do not archive
>
> Try WWW.tropicaero.com
>
> George
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Avid dropping out in flair |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Steve Cooper wrote:
> ...but now the bird is a real pleasure to fly
I am so glad you solved your problem, Steve. I have been following this thread
for a while and I learned a lot. Thanks to all of you who answered and enriched
me with your knowledge. Still, I have a question: what do you mean by "dropping
out?"
Is it that, with the heavy nose, you stalled nose-down?
My model 3 with a 582 feels very easy to land, but then, I don't have any other
taildragger experience to compare with.
Thanks in advance,
Michel
do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re - Pilot Haven NY |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Thanks for your comments guys. I should have mentioned that my previous experience
with EBay has been fine. Our syndicate has made purchases from the States
that we are more than happy with. In hind sight if I have asked the list for a
referral to a credible business operator I wouldn't be writing this now. In Australia
the Icom A22 is around $980.00 AU. (approx $735 A) so $600 is a big saving
and the difference could purchase a VSI or good compass. When your on a
tight budget every penny counts, particularly when your undertaking a rebuild.
Anyway, the purpose of the email was to give others the benefit of our experience
so no -one else is caught out. I love the idea of sending guido around. Whats
his phone number; I'll call him.
Cheers
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Bob Robertson wrote:
> The engine "should" run perfectly with both carbs set the same. If you
> require more that one clip position difference <SNIP>
Like Jared, I am very grateful to have you on the list, Bob.
Yet I still have an obscure part of my mind when it comes to the Bing
carburettor and EGT.
The way it works on my plane is that I get the highest EGT reading at about
5,000 RPM (higher in winter and lower in summer) and especially in a slight
descent. I figure out that this is when my mixture is the leanest. At that
time, one EGT reads slightly over 1,200 and the other, slightly under. The
difference is more than the recommended 45 degrees, say maybe 70 degrees. I
haven't figured out why but I don't pay it too much attention other than
avoiding to stay at that hottest RPM for a long time.
At full power, which I seldom maintain more than for the initial climb up to
500 ft AGL, I never get the EGT as high as with the "hot spot" RPM.
My carb needles are both on the highest clip position, therefore the richest
mixture. The previous owner of the plane said that he kept that position all
year around.
Would you recommend me to lower one of the needles to see how it works? In that
case, which one? At the "hot spot" RPM, it is the aft cylinder that is the hottest.
Thanks in advance,
Michel
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Jared,
Bob is out there listening most of the time, but has a business or 2 to run
also.
He gives excellent advise, and can be reached at his email address also.
Also a good source for Rotax parts!
Cheers, bh
> WOW thanks for the tips bob, don!!
> Been dyin to have a rotax expert join the ranks of the list for sometime!!
> Especially for us 582 guys!!
>
> Bob Robertson wrote:
Message 20
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| Subject: | (Off-topic) Hollywood |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
kurt schrader wrote:
> We really aren't much like those news reports or Hollywood movies at all.
Are you telling me that you are not really a lonesome cowboy riding in the
sunset, Kurt? ... Rats! Another dream that's broken!
:-) Michel
do not archive!
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Hi Michel,
The highest clip position is "leanest". Needle goes further down into the main
and needle jets.
Lowest position is rich (needle higher in jets).
Cheers,
bh
> The way it works on my plane is that I get the highest EGT reading at about
> 5,000 RPM (higher in winter and lower in summer) and especially in a slight
> descent. I figure out that this is when my mixture is the leanest. At that
> time, one EGT reads slightly over 1,200 and the other, slightly under. The
> difference is more than the recommended 45 degrees, say maybe 70 degrees. I
> haven't figured out why but I don't pay it too much attention other than
> avoiding to stay at that hottest RPM for a long time.
> At full power, which I seldom maintain more than for the initial climb up to
> 500 ft AGL, I never get the EGT as high as with the "hot spot" RPM.
> My carb needles are both on the highest clip position, therefore the richest
> mixture. The previous owner of the plane said that he kept that position all
> year around.
>
> Would you recommend me to lower one of the needles to see how it works? In
that
> case, which one? At the "hot spot" RPM, it is the aft cylinder that is the
hottest.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michel
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Avid falling/ C of G |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Steve:
Funny thing, I didn't know the difference until flying that Mark IV years
later. I think a newer/heavier version being nose heavy apparently has more
noticeable bad flight characteristics in the flare probably due to the extra
weight and the increase in the stall speed.
Glad I was able to help.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Avid falling/ C of G
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
>
>
> Hey Paul...thanks a bunch for your post. It validates the CG adjustments
> I've made. I knew that if I didn't get the problem under control, that it
> would eventually bite me really hard. ...and it almost did a couple of
> times. It's scarey flying a plane that drops out like that...you know that
> eventually, your going to have to land it. Actually, I think my plane flys
> better now all the way around...even turns in windy gusty conditions are
> smoother. the plane just seems to track better through the turn.
>
> Steve
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Avid falling/ C of G
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
> >
> > Lmar;
> >
> > I agree with your comments about nose-heavy Avids. Even the prototype
> Avid
> > (N99AF) with the Cuyuna was nose heavy and exhibited some of the
problems
> in
> > the flare of running out of elevator (I flew the prototype 300+ hours).
> > Yet, the true and accurate stall on that airplane was between 20 and 22
> mph.
> > Seriously. And later I put another 500 hours on another early A-model
> Avid
> > with a 532. Stall speeds on that were the same, and it exhibited the
same
> > drop out during the flare. Also had a very forward cg. Incidentally
both
> > of these Avids described had a fuselage fuel tank with no wing tanks.
The
> > wing tanks added to the later model Avids helped to bring the c.g. back.
> >
> > Later I test flew a Mark IV with a 618 in it for a friend, and
> consequently
> > flew the 40 hours off of it so he could get his license in it. I was
> amazed
> > how that airplane which weighed 625 lbs (vs the prototype at 360 lbs and
> the
> > other 532 A-model at 396 lbs) felt better in the landing flare due to it
> > being better balanced. In fact, it could be landed slower than the
> A-models
> > because of it. And yet the stall was double what the A-model's were.
> This
> > is especially interesting when you consider that the wing on all three
> > aircraft was identical. (I do admit you could land the A-models
extremely
> > slow if you kept a lot of power on to arrest the sink rate, but you
> wouldn't
> > want to do this on a regular basis. Sooner or later you'd get a hickup
in
> > your landing and you'd find yourself coming down like a ton of bricks.
A
> > lot of early Avid and Kitfox pilots wrecked their airplanes by landing
> them
> > too slow.)
> >
> > So weight and balance is a critical factor obviously. Kitfox or Avid.
> >
> > Paul Seehafer
> > Wisconsin
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lmar" <my93avid@yahoo.com>
> > To: <Kitfox-List@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Avid falling/ C of G
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lmar <my93avid@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > I agree with Steve in finding that a C of G around 14" or aft is best
> for
> > the Avid. I went through the same problems with the "stock" engine.
When
> I
> > got the airplane it would 'fall out of the sky" on landing. The c of g
on
> > paper showed it in range. I finally moved things to obtain a more aft
> > condition, with improvement with each change. I have found that the max
> > forward while keeping good flare attributes is about 14". The Avid was
> > designed to be a bit nose heavy AND it had a 40 lb LIGHTER engine than
the
> > 582. Unlike the Fox, Avid did not lengthen the fuselage with the
increase
> > weight. Therefore, IMHO, most Avids are flying around far too nose
heavy
> > even though they are within the correct range. When I moved mine aft to
> 14"
> > (limit 16.5) it was a whole new airplane! I can land full flaps, power
> off
> > and tail wheel 1st! What fun
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Avid dropping out in flair |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
It wasn't until I solved the problem that I really understood what was going
on during the flair to land. the problem was that the plane did NOT have a
predictable glide. In other words, during final when you have everything set
up for flair and touchdown, normally you cross the numbers at "your" normal
airspeed. The ird will be set up on "glide". As you get closer to the runway
you begin to ease back on the stick...all the while keeping a "feel" or
"watch" on your airspeed. Your easing back on the stick, your entering the
flair ease it ack, ease it back...touchdown. Mine didn't do that. You really
NEVER knew where in the flair the bird was going to drop...and I mean
literally. It took a great deal of focus and a constant adjustment of the
throttle to get the bird down. Now all I have to do is set it up for landing
like you normally would establish glide, enter flair...the bird will float
along a little bit, then touchdown!
I hope this narrative gives youa feel for what the problem was.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Avid dropping out in flair
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> Steve Cooper wrote:
> > ...but now the bird is a real pleasure to fly
>
> I am so glad you solved your problem, Steve. I have been following this
thread
> for a while and I learned a lot. Thanks to all of you who answered and
enriched
> me with your knowledge. Still, I have a question: what do you mean by
"dropping out?"
> Is it that, with the heavy nose, you stalled nose-down?
> My model 3 with a 582 feels very easy to land, but then, I don't have any
other
> taildragger experience to compare with.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Far far away............. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Oops, didn't know you were that far away. Hey, AOPA and EAA both have a
large contigent from Australia and New Zealand and I just bet they both
would listen to your story and provide some sort of blackball or have a
method of pressuring these guys ...........I'm too far away myself, but
maybe one of the listers from that area will SPEAK up and volunteer to
visit' the outfit. All it would take would be a personal visit with the
canceled checks, or the credit card voucher............should work. Maybe
an aviation oriented lawyer from that area could coerce the participants
into cooperating........any LAWYERS in NY fly?
Sid
----------------------trying to be the idea man here.....................do
not archive
Thanks for your comments guys. I should have mentioned that my previous
experience with EBay has been fine. Our syndicate has made purchases from
the States that we are more than happy with. In hind sight if I have asked
the list for a referral to a credible business operator I wouldn't be
writing this now. In Australia the Icom A22 is around $980.00 AU. (approx
$735 A) so $600 is a big saving and the difference could purchase a VSI or
good compass. When your on a tight budget every penny counts, particularly
when your undertaking a rebuild. Anyway, the purpose of the email was to
give others the benefit of our experience so no -one else is caught out. I
love the idea of sending guido around. Whats his phone number; I'll call him
Cheers
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair" <dlummy@visi.net>
OH DAMN! Tailwheel spring has busted. No problem right? Call Skystar and order
a new one.. WRONG!
Apparently this isn't the first time and they are in the process of manufacturing
a new spring, they recommended modifying a J3 spring to replace it... Anyone
done it before? Help! Dave
Message 26
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Bruce Harrington wrote:
> The highest clip position is "leanest". Needle goes further down into the main
> and needle jets. Lowest position is rich (needle higher in jets).
Thanks for your answer, Bruce. The error is mine; by writing "on the highest
clip position," I meant: the clip position that keeps the needle highest, i.e.
when the clip itself is in the lowest groove of the needle.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Call Steve At Airdale. He manufacturer's 3rd party components for Kitfox and
Avid. He out of the country frequently, ut leave him a message...he always
returns the call. Check out his site at: www.airdale.com
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "David & Maria Lumgair" <dlummy@visi.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring...
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair"
<dlummy@visi.net>
>
> OH DAMN! Tailwheel spring has busted. No problem right? Call Skystar
and order a new one.. WRONG!
>
> Apparently this isn't the first time and they are in the process of
manufacturing a new spring, they recommended modifying a J3 spring to
replace it... Anyone done it before? Help! Dave
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Avid dropping out in flair |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Steve Cooper wrote:
> You really NEVER knew where in the flair the bird was going to drop...
Thank you, Steve. I think that by "to drop" you meant, "to stall," didn't you?
Were you then with the nose pointing higher than now?
The reason I ask is that I intend by next winter to replace my 582 by a heavier
engine (probably a Jabiru) and before I start moving e.g. the battery aft, I'd
like to know what to expect from a slightly nose-heavier plane.
When I was training to land my plane - as you may remember - I had a lot of
difficulties to now, other than: I never read an instrument nor look at
something in particular, I simply try to feel the plane and my spatial
environment. Alone, I can get the stick all the way in my stomach before doing
a 3-points landing. With a passenger, it happens a bit earlier.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 29
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| Subject: | KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Someone on the list is likely to have one after swapping theirs with a Grove
spring. Hang tight for a day or two and see what comes up. I MAY have one
at the hanger, but I think I gave it away already. Does anyone have an old
tailwheel spring lying around?
SteveZ
Classic IV
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David &
Maria Lumgair
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring...
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair" <dlummy@visi.net>
OH DAMN! Tailwheel spring has busted. No problem right? Call Skystar and
order a new one.. WRONG!
Apparently this isn't the first time and they are in the process of
manufacturing a new spring, they recommended modifying a J3 spring to
replace it... Anyone done it before? Help! Dave
Message 30
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|
Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:29:40 -0700
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Michel, I have an engine that is about the same weight as the Jabiru 2200. I have
the battery behind the seat and also an aluminum header tank. I have no problems
with 3 points or wheel landings. I am also a heavy guy, 265 and fly with
two full wing tanks most of the time. My weight and balance is good and in centered.
My plane weight is 545 lbs. and 122lbs of which is engine or at least
close. That my help you a lttle. By the way I think the Jabiru is a great engine.
That my two bits worth
Do not archive
Dee Young
Model II N345DY
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... |
Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:31:05 -0700
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Try ACS
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: David & Maria Lumgair<mailto:dlummy@visi.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring...
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair" <dlummy@visi.net<mailto:dlummy@visi.net>>
OH DAMN! Tailwheel spring has busted. No problem right? Call Skystar and order
a new one.. WRONG!
Apparently this isn't the first time and they are in the process of manufacturing
a new spring, they recommended modifying a J3 spring to replace it... Anyone
done it before? Help! Dave
Message 32
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 5/14/04 6:12:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jareds@verizon.net writes:
> WOW thanks for the tips bob, don!!
> Been dyin to have a rotax expert join the ranks of the list for sometime!!
> Especially for us 582 guys!!
>
>
Jared,
Bob Robertson has been on the list for a century or more. He is the man.
However, be careful when ordering material from him. The last package I
received from Bob had Bear claws all over the package. You know, from Canada....
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 5/14/04 2:27:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dlummy@visi.net
writes:
> OH DAMN! Tailwheel spring has busted. No problem right? Call Skystar and
> order a new one.. WRONG!
>
Recommend you call Grove directly. I think there might be a problem in this
area where Skystar is involved.
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 34
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
Michel,
See below
> The way it works on my plane is that I get the highest EGT reading at about
> 5,000 RPM (higher in winter and lower in summer)
At 5K RPM, you are running on the mid range jet not the main jet
> descent.
When you decend with a 582, you must reduce power or the EGT's will peak.
This is one of those little things you must do when operating a 582. Has to do
with the magic of air intake/ RPM/ diving. The Rich Man refuses to recognize
this.
> At full power, which I seldom maintain more than for the initial climb up
> to
> 500 ft AGL, I never get the EGT as high as with the "hot spot" RPM.
That's because you are climbing. Again, the magic of air/ RPM's and such.
> My carb needles are both on the highest clip position, therefore the
> richest
> mixture. The previous owner of the plane said that he kept that position all
> year around.
>
Reduce power before you start a decent. Reduce power just before you level
off after a climb. Try that and see if your EGT's act a little better.
Don Smythe
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Yea, one of the guys here broke his aluminum spring and went the Cub spring.
I don't think he had any problem mounting it.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "David & Maria Lumgair" <dlummy@visi.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring...
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair"
<dlummy@visi.net>
>
> OH DAMN! Tailwheel spring has busted. No problem right? Call Skystar
and order a new one.. WRONG!
>
> Apparently this isn't the first time and they are in the process of
manufacturing a new spring, they recommended modifying a J3 spring to
replace it... Anyone done it before? Help! Dave
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
If you can't fine one in a week I have one I
took off my Model II. It in the hanger somewhere.
Let me know.
Glenn Horne -Suffolk, Va.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Zakreski
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring...
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Someone on the list is likely to have one after swapping theirs with a Grove
spring. Hang tight for a day or two and see what comes up. I MAY have one
at the hanger, but I think I gave it away already. Does anyone have an old
tailwheel spring lying around?
SteveZ
Classic IV
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David &
Maria Lumgair
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring...
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair" <dlummy@visi.net>
OH DAMN! Tailwheel spring has busted. No problem right? Call Skystar and
order a new one.. WRONG!
Apparently this isn't the first time and they are in the process of
manufacturing a new spring, they recommended modifying a J3 spring to
replace it... Anyone done it before? Help! Dave
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: KF IV 1200 Tailwheel spring... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
Try Airdale. Steve may have one of his havy duty springs in stock.
alterrnatively see if there is an automotive shop or spring shop that
can make you one. Probably be cheaper than
SkyStar and they can make it with a much larger radius in the curve
which will help keep it from breaking.
Jerry Liles
David & Maria Lumgair wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair" <dlummy@visi.net>
>
>OH DAMN! Tailwheel spring has busted. No problem right? Call Skystar and order
a new one.. WRONG!
>
>Apparently this isn't the first time and they are in the process of manufacturing
a new spring, they recommended modifying a J3 spring to replace it... Anyone
done it before? Help! Dave
>
>
>
>
Message 38
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "david yeamans" <dafox@ckt.net>
Thanks Brian for the WD40 explanation. I would never have suspected that
water or moisture was the problem. I'm sure others could be having the same
problem also. What does the 40 mean ?
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Peck
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 EGT
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Brian Peck <u2drvr@dslextreme.com>
On May 13, 2004, at 8:40 PM, david yeamans wrote:
> The suggestion was to disconnect the leads to the instrument
> and carefully spray them with WD40. I've had the problem more than
> once,
> and it works everytime, and I don't know why for sure, but it does.
>
If WD40 is solving this problem then you are most likely getting
moisture in the leads... the WD stands for Water Dispersant, which was
the original intent for the product.
Cheers,
Brian Peck
Message 39
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Most likely the 40th version...just guessing. It has a hugh list of uses.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of david
yeamans
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 EGT
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "david yeamans" <dafox@ckt.net>
Thanks Brian for the WD40 explanation. I would never have suspected that
water or moisture was the problem. I'm sure others could be having the same
problem also. What does the 40 mean ?
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Peck
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 EGT
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Brian Peck <u2drvr@dslextreme.com>
On May 13, 2004, at 8:40 PM, david yeamans wrote:
> The suggestion was to disconnect the leads to the instrument
> and carefully spray them with WD40. I've had the problem more than
> once,
> and it works everytime, and I don't know why for sure, but it does.
>
If WD40 is solving this problem then you are most likely getting
moisture in the leads... the WD stands for Water Dispersant, which was
the original intent for the product.
Cheers,
Brian Peck
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