Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:57 AM - vortex generators (Fox5flyer)
2. 07:08 AM - Kitfox 2-stroke maintenance and FAA regulations (Mike Peters)
3. 07:24 AM - Re: Kitfox 2-stroke maintenance and FAA regulations (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
4. 10:01 AM - Re: Kitfox 2-stroke maintenance and FAA regulations (u2drvr@dslextreme.com)
5. 11:22 AM - Flaperon Reflex (Lmar)
6. 11:24 AM - Re: vortex generators (Don)
7. 11:32 AM - Kiev Hot Prop (Don)
8. 11:32 AM - Re: Kitfox 2-stroke maintenance and FAA regulations (Mike Peters)
9. 12:14 PM - Re: Gap sealing (Michel Verheughe)
10. 02:10 PM - Re: Kiev Hot Prop (Graeme Toft)
11. 02:43 PM - Re: Kitfox 2-stroke maintenance and FAA regulations (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
12. 05:21 PM - Paint a picture (Graeme Toft)
13. 05:27 PM - Re: aluminum (John E. King)
14. 06:39 PM - Re: aluminum (MikeReiman@webtv.net (The Reiman Corporation))
15. 06:58 PM - Re: Kitfox 2-stroke maintenance and FAA regulations (MikeReiman@webtv.net (The Reiman Corporation))
16. 10:40 PM - Re: Gap sealing (jimshumaker)
17. 11:01 PM - Re: vortex generators (jimshumaker)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | vortex generators |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Jim, do you have any pics of the installation of your VGs that you could
post on sportflight? Also, how much noticeable difference did you
experience when you changed to VGs? Do you make your own and if so, what do
you use as a material including dimensions? Any change in cruise speed?
Too many questions?
Thanks,
Darrel
> Now what have I been telling you about Vortex Generators? Would you like
me
> to send you a few?
> Jim Shumaker
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Kitfox 2-stroke maintenance and FAA regulations |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Peters <mjp103@yahoo.com>
I am buying a plane already built and it has a Rotax
582. It is a registered plane and I have a PPSEL. I
will not have the repairmen's certificate, so how do
those that are in a similar situation maintain the
engine???
An A&P is required to work on it, according to the
FAA, but there are few or none knowledgable in 2-stoke
maintenance or willing to work on them. I would much
prefer to send it off to a Rotax service center, but
that doesn't seem to meet the FAA requirements. I
would like to keep the logs in order for resale.
There are plenty of Kitfox owners that are in the same
boat. What do you do???
Mike Peters
__________________________________
http://messenger.yahoo.com/
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 2-stroke maintenance and FAA regulations |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 5/26/04 7:10:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mjp103@yahoo.com
writes:
>
> I am buying a plane already built and it has a Rotax
> 582. It is a registered plane and I have a PPSEL. I
> will not have the repairmen's certificate, so how do
> those that are in a similar situation maintain the
> engine???
>
> An A&P is required to work on it, according to the
> FAA, but there are few or none knowledgable in 2-stoke
> maintenance or willing to work on them. I would much
> prefer to send it off to a Rotax service center, but
> that doesn't seem to meet the FAA requirements. I
> would like to keep the logs in order for resale.
>
> There are plenty of Kitfox owners that are in the same
> boat. What do you do???
>
>
Mike,
I'm only guessing here but I think you should be able to do all the
required daily maintenance without a repairman's cert. That is, change/clean the
filters, jets, etc. that's required for daily flight operation.
On the part about the FAA not allowing an authorized Rotax facility to do
work on the engine surprises me. A question,,,, couldn't/wouldn't a Rotax
repair facility be willing to enter maintenance information into an owners
engine log.
This sounds like a Bob Robertson answer?
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 2-stroke maintenance and FAA regulations |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: u2drvr@dslextreme.com
The aircraft should be registered as experimental-amateur built and FAR
Part 43 specifically states that the rules of that part do not apply to
experimental, amateur-built aircraft. You can perform any and all
maintenance yourself or have anyone else you want do it. The only thing
the repairman certificate allows you to do is to sign off the annual
condition inspection. You will have to have the annual signed off by an
A&P (IA not required). This is one of the great things about experimental
aircraft because it keeps operating costs very low. Enjoy your new toy!
Brian Peck
AlbertaIV@aol.com
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 5/26/04 7:10:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> mjp103@yahoo.com
> writes:
>
>
>>
>> I am buying a plane already built and it has a Rotax
>> 582. It is a registered plane and I have a PPSEL. I
>> will not have the repairmen's certificate, so how do
>> those that are in a similar situation maintain the
>> engine???
>>
>> An A&P is required to work on it, according to the
>> FAA, but there are few or none knowledgable in 2-stoke
>> maintenance or willing to work on them. I would much
>> prefer to send it off to a Rotax service center, but
>> that doesn't seem to meet the FAA requirements. I
>> would like to keep the logs in order for resale.
>>
>> There are plenty of Kitfox owners that are in the same
>> boat. What do you do???
>>
>>
>
> Mike,
> I'm only guessing here but I think you should be able to do all the
> required daily maintenance without a repairman's cert. That is,
> change/clean the
> filters, jets, etc. that's required for daily flight operation.
> On the part about the FAA not allowing an authorized Rotax facility to
> do
> work on the engine surprises me. A question,,,, couldn't/wouldn't a Rotax
> repair facility be willing to enter maintenance information into an owners
> engine log.
> This sounds like a Bob Robertson answer?
>
> Don Smythe
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lmar <my93avid@yahoo.com>
Does the Kitfox "reflex", (that is tailing edge of the flaperon up with 0 flaps
selected) the flaperons on models that incorporate an elevator trim tab?
Thanks,
Larry
---------------------------------
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don" <donfox@inreach.com>
I have been flying with VGs since May 2002. I love them, my indicated
stall speed is now 30 mph, plus the airplane is very stable. I have some
articles that should be in the archives, dated, 3/21/02, 5/19/02 and
5/20/02. Don 582 Mod4
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: Kitfox-List: vortex generators
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Jim, do you have any pics of the installation of your VGs that you could
> post on sportflight? Also, how much noticeable difference did you
> experience when you changed to VGs? Do you make your own and if so, what
do
> you use as a material including dimensions? Any change in cruise speed?
> Too many questions?
> Thanks,
> Darrel
>
> > Now what have I been telling you about Vortex Generators? Would you
like
> me
> > to send you a few?
> > Jim Shumaker
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don" <donfox@inreach.com>
Anyone on the list know about anyone that is using this prop on a Kitfox. Don
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 2-stroke maintenance and FAA regulations |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mike Peters <mjp103@yahoo.com>
Hi Don!
I guess I am under the impression, after speaking to
an A&P, that an A&P would need to sign off the engine
work. Are there A&P's that are willing to do that
without knowing the quality of service that you are
getting from the 3rd party service center. He's
putting his name on the line, isn't he???
Mike
--- AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 5/26/04 7:10:03 AM Pacific
> Daylight Time, mjp103@yahoo.com
> writes:
>
>
> >
> > I am buying a plane already built and it has a
> Rotax
> > 582. It is a registered plane and I have a PPSEL.
> I
> > will not have the repairmen's certificate, so how
> do
> > those that are in a similar situation maintain the
> > engine???
> >
> > An A&P is required to work on it, according to the
> > FAA, but there are few or none knowledgable in
> 2-stoke
> > maintenance or willing to work on them. I would
> much
> > prefer to send it off to a Rotax service center,
> but
> > that doesn't seem to meet the FAA requirements. I
> > would like to keep the logs in order for resale.
> >
> > There are plenty of Kitfox owners that are in the
> same
> > boat. What do you do???
> >
> >
>
> Mike,
> I'm only guessing here but I think you should be
> able to do all the
> required daily maintenance without a repairman's
> cert. That is, change/clean the
> filters, jets, etc. that's required for daily flight
> operation.
> On the part about the FAA not allowing an
> authorized Rotax facility to do
> work on the engine surprises me. A question,,,,
> couldn't/wouldn't a Rotax
> repair facility be willing to enter maintenance
> information into an owners
> engine log.
> This sounds like a Bob Robertson answer?
>
> Don Smythe
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://messenger.yahoo.com/
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
jimshumaker wrote:
> Now what have I been telling you about Vortex Generators? Would you like me
> to send you a few?
Hello Jim,
I have tried to follow the thread about Vortex Generator a while ago. I think I
understand the principle but ... you mean to have them on the wings and not the
horizontal stab, right? This then would be in order to reduce my stall speed, correct?
Of course, it would be very kind of you to send me a few but before, there are
a few things I need to understand. Note that I had that question for a while
but wasn't sure. Here it is:
From what I could measure, the angle my plane makes with the horizontal plane,
when on the ground, is roughly 16 degrees. I understand that my model 3
undercambered wing won't stall with less than say, 20 degrees of AoA.
If after the flare, I keep the plane a few feet over the ground at say, 16
degrees of AoA, will I ever stall before the lift is reduced and I touch the
ground? In other words, if the Vortex Generators will keep the flow of air over
the wing with energy, thus preventing the stall, with it help at 16 degrees AoA?
I am pretty sure I miss something here but I don't know what.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kiev Hot Prop |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Don, I have a mate down the road from me who is using this prop. It is
Russian and really well put together. He is using it on an Australian made
Lightwing which is powered by a Rotax 912S. He recently converted from an 80
HP and changed the prop at the same time. The performance is remarkable.
With this combination he is getting 1000-1200 a minute on the VSI.although
not a lot of difference in top end or cruise speed. The appearance of the
prop is great as it is carbon fibre and has a translucent look about it. It
is ground adjustable and comes with a spinner. He paid $1000 Australian
which currently converts to around $750US. Hope this helps.
Cheers
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don" <donfox@inreach.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kiev Hot Prop
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don" <donfox@inreach.com>
>
> Anyone on the list know about anyone that is using this prop on a
Kitfox. Don
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 2-stroke maintenance and FAA regulations |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
Hi Don!
I guess I am under the impression, after speaking to
an A&P, that an A&P would need to sign off the engine
work. Are there A&P's that are willing to do that
without knowing the quality of service that you are
getting from the 3rd party service center. He's
putting his name on the line, isn't he???
Mike
Mike,
I think the question has already been answered. You can do anything to
that engine you want or feel comfortable doing. The work doesn't need to be
signed off. However, the yearly conditional needs a sign off by an A&P if you
don't have a repairman's cert. I don't know how hard it will be to get an A&P
to sign off on an Exp plane. I guess some will do it if the price is right.
Then again, there are some that wouldn't touch it at any price.
Be careful about A&P's. Some aren't as smart as you might think when it
comes to Exp. planes. I'm in the process of doing my conditional inspection
now and yesterday an A&P told my hanger mate that "I" couldn't sign off the
annual. I do have a repairman's cert.
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Hi Guys, as a relative new comer to the list I am constantly amazed at the experience
and skills you have with the various aircraft you fly. Its a great source
of information and an incredibly effective way of helping those of us who do
not have those attributes yet. Many of you come from the USA, Canada, Alaska,
Scandinavia and other wonderful places. Why then cant we get something going
about where it is you live, why you live there and the flying condition you experience.
I love reading Scotts emails because he adds something special by including
his home and environment. Each time I read the name Nome it conjures
up pictures of gold mining towns, cold conditions and hard men. It also starts
me off singing North to Alaska, a song I love. I know that Michel is in Scandinavia
somewhere and I know its a beautiful place having gone there in 1996. The
descriptions of canyon flying are awesome for someone like myself who lives
in a country where the mountains are pimples in comparison. Pre-empting turbulence
and knowing where and when to fly there are skills that should be passed
on. Who wants to start. Tell us all about your home.
Cheers
Graeme
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
Dave,
You can often pick up various pieces of aluminum at auto junk yards that
collect scrap metal from various industries. They sell it by the
pound. Also some local hardware stores often sell sheet aluminum, as
well as various angles.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Dave & Darlene wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
>
>Hi All
>'m in the process of getting together metal, etc for my XL. I live in Alberta,
just west of Edmonton. I'm looking for a builder who might have some extra
metal kicking around. I realize there are many different sizes of angles,sheeting
that we need. I can access the most common, but there are some that can
only be ordered by the 4x12 sheet. Most of the sheet is never needed and there
seems to be much left over. I would be willing to pay fair price plus shipping.
I just think this would be a lettle more less expensive then buying a whole
sheet or a long length of angle only to use a small piece of it. It would
probably only be worthwhile getting this from a canadian as shipping cross the
border can get expensive. Any thoughts from the group are welcome.
>Dave
>dnimigon@telusplanet.net
>
>
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
2004 20:28:05 -0400
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: MikeReiman@webtv.net (The Reiman Corporation)
I'm not sure how I got your e-mail, but let me tell you as an A&P you
don't want to use odd hardware grade aluminum on any aircraft. It will
corrode because it doesn't have the "Alclad" pure aluminum coating which
is on both sides about 6% deep. Get your stock from an aircraft
supplier, f not the kit plane company itself.
Anyway, I will be happy to help you for free with any questions. I
would always follow the basic rule that if it's worth doing.. It's worth
doing right!
Okay enough...
Soft Landings,
Mike Reiman
The Reiman Corporation, CEO
2505 South Ocean Boulevard
Palm Beach, Florida 33480
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 2-stroke maintenance and FAA regulations |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: MikeReiman@webtv.net (The Reiman Corporation)
Not sure how I got your e-mail, but I'm an A&P. Your friend is
right.... There are some A&P's I wouldn't trust to fix a model airplane.
Best to ask around your field to know who knows their stuff. Not sure
where you guys are based, but I'm in Lantana, Florida.
Oh, Anyone know where there might be a Grumman Tiger for sale? Looking
for one.
Respectfully,
Mike Reiman
The Reiman Corporation, CEO
2505 South Ocean Boulevard
Palm Beach, Florida 33480
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Oh Michel....
You ask questions that require long answers. It is late so I will try to
start the answer tonight and then fill it in more tomorrow if you like.
There is probably someone out there who can answer better and hopefully they
will help me here.
The short answer to your question is yes...mostly. First the VG's go on the
wing. I have no camber on my horizontal stab so they did not help my
elevator power in any location I tried. Yes, they will reduce the stall
speed, thus reducing your approach speed and shortening the landing roll and
the length of the landing field required.
On the degrees of AoA, I have not measured, but you seem to be pretty close
to accurate. But looking at the numbers they would imply that you would
only land tail wheel first on every landing. Four degrees high as a matter
of fact. Since that is not your experience, there must be something else
happening. It is the ground effect. As you know, ground effect occurs
within a wingspan of the ground and increases the glide. It effectively
reduces the tip vortices. It also moves the Center of Lift rearward and
changes the effective stall angle of the wing. So you don't have to fly
along dragging the tailwheel to get down on the ground.
Jim Shumaker
> Hello Jim,
>
> I have tried to follow the thread about Vortex Generator a while ago. I
think I
> understand the principle but ... you mean to have them on the wings and
not the
> horizontal stab, right? This then would be in order to reduce my stall
speed, correct?
> Of course, it would be very kind of you to send me a few but before, there
are
> a few things I need to understand. Note that I had that question for a
while
> but wasn't sure. Here it is:
>
> From what I could measure, the angle my plane makes with the horizontal
plane,
> when on the ground, is roughly 16 degrees. I understand that my model 3
> undercambered wing won't stall with less than say, 20 degrees of AoA.
> If after the flare, I keep the plane a few feet over the ground at say, 16
> degrees of AoA, will I ever stall before the lift is reduced and I touch
the
> ground? In other words, if the Vortex Generators will keep the flow of air
over
> the wing with energy, thus preventing the stall, with it help at 16
degrees AoA?
> I am pretty sure I miss something here but I don't know what.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: vortex generators |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Darrel
I will try to upload some VG pics tomorrow.
My stall was lowered by 5 MPH or about 13 % which is about what the
certified installers claim. No change in cruise speed. I used the CCI VG's
(www.computer-certainty.com )that are clear lexan. They weigh about 20
grams per hundred as I recall. I used about 104. I installed them in the
low area between each rib and false rib. I tried them at three locations
and in half the spaces between the ribs and between every rib. The best
location was three inches (measured horizontally) from a vertical plane
tangent to the leading edge.
I have been keeping a watch out for other planes that use them and have
found them on many aircraft including Harriers and A-4's. There seem to be
few aircraft that can't benefit from them.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: Kitfox-List: vortex generators
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Jim, do you have any pics of the installation of your VGs that you could
> post on sportflight? Also, how much noticeable difference did you
> experience when you changed to VGs? Do you make your own and if so, what
do
> you use as a material including dimensions? Any change in cruise speed?
> Too many questions?
> Thanks,
> Darrel
>
> > Now what have I been telling you about Vortex Generators? Would you
like
> me
> > to send you a few?
> > Jim Shumaker
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|