Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:40 AM - Re: New London,VA fly in!! (Gill Levesque)
2. 07:15 AM - NSI Turbo for sale (Comp User)
3. 12:23 PM - (off-topic) Our hometown (Michel Verheughe)
4. 01:27 PM - Kitplane Magazine Articles (jeff.hays@aselia.com)
5. 02:30 PM - Magazine Articles (Scott McClintock)
6. 02:33 PM - Re: Kitplane Magazine Articles (Michel Verheughe)
7. 02:55 PM - Re: Kitplane Magazine Articles (Randy Daughenbaugh)
8. 02:59 PM - Off topic (Graeme Toft)
9. 03:20 PM - Magazine Articles (Scott McClintock)
10. 04:59 PM - Re: Kitplane Magazine Articles (Jeff Hays)
11. 05:12 PM - Re: Magazine Articles (Roger McConnell)
12. 05:13 PM - Re: Kitplane Magazine Articles (Steve Zakreski)
13. 05:31 PM - Re: New London,VA fly in!! (John E. King)
14. 08:07 PM - Re: New London,VA fly in!! (Dcecil3@aol.com)
15. 08:40 PM - Re: Kitplane Magazine Articles (Bruce Harrington)
16. 10:27 PM - Re: Kitplane Magazine Articles (Cory Emberson)
17. 11:42 PM - Im in the air!!!!!!! (kyle Ponsford)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: New London,VA fly in!! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca>
David,
I will be flying my model 4 582 down from Canada, if the good lords willin and
the creek don't rise!!!(been rainin here for two months strait!!!)
Gil Levesque
C-IGVL
Dcecil3@aol.com wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
I'm about 40 Minutes from lynchburg is anyone going to fly a Kitfox in?Would
love to get a Look at a couple.Also an update on the delema with the FAA about
my Model 3. Talked to a Rep. from the EAA and he was a great help.Got
everything in order .If your not a member JOIN, I would have been SOL if not for
the
EAA.Got all the parts to manufacture a new right wing from Skystar..Trucking
Co. Crushed one of the Spars Skystar had another to me in 4 Days .Hopfully next
year I'll be hitting the Fly-ins in Miss Kitty
Best David Cecil
N859DC
KF model III Sure Feels good to be
able to put my new N Number in here!!!!!!!!
Still alive and flyin!!!!
Gil
---------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | NSI Turbo for sale |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
I have to sell my motor to save the plane. Where can I advertise it at? I am starting
with Sportflight. You can contact me off of list. Put motor in subject
line. Do not archive.
trebla@directinter.net
Albert Smith
Mod. 5TD
NSI Turbo CAP
Still flying when the wind is not blowing.
Message 3
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| Subject: | (off-topic) Our hometown |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Graeme Toft wrote:
> So thats me. I hope this idea works.
It does for me, Graeme. My son has been twice in Australia and just love your
country. Flying there seems to be essential, considering the distances. One
rarely sees an Australian movie where a GA plane is not involved.
I only suggest that those who want to take the challenge to present their
hometown do it by adding a "off-topic" tag to the title and end with the "do
not archive."
I sure love to read about other places in the world. I wish I could visit them
all but, time and money lacking, I gladly read about them. Those who are then
strictly interested in Kitfox-building only, can delete all "off-topic" titles.
Their lost! :-)
Just my two cents,
Michel
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Kitplane Magazine Articles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Has anybody else out there noticed, that a LOT of the articles about
various kit planes, which appear in the various magazines, also
happen to be authored by family members of, or employees themselves
of the various kit manufacturer's?
For instance there was a bunch of articles, out there about the Bearhawk
recently, which Budd Davisson authored. I really like the Bearhawk, but
the fact that Budd Davisson is also the president of Avipro who kits
the Bearhawk, kind of bother's me. Especially in that the articles
appear in magazine's like Sport Aviation which is an EAA pub.
Also Sport Pilot magazine just came out, espousing all the great things
about the Skystar, etc. I think the author's name was Earl Downs
who I'm pretty sure is related to Ed Downs
Anyway, I don't object to anybody writing an article about a plane, but
it bothers me, that somebody reads these articles to perhaps make a
buying decision about a plane, and the fact that the article is written
by the president of the kit company ... Anyway, you get the idea. It
just doesn't seem like an honest thing, especially for an organization
like EAA.
I for one sent a complaint via email to editorial@eaa.org about this
since I'm a member.
Regards,
Jeff Hays
Message 5
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| Subject: | Magazine Articles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
<jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Has anybody else out there noticed, that a LOT of the articles about
various kit planes, which appear in the various magazines, also
happen to be authored by family members of, or employees themselves
of the various kit manufacturer's?
Jeff,
I read that article on the Bearhawk too. I didn't realize what the
relationship of the author was.
However, I thought it was a fair piece as it does mention some
shortcomings of the (prototype) aircraft.
With your revelation in mind, I suppose it can still be construed as an
"objective" article, all things considered?
Scott in Nome
Is "Earl Downs" just Ed's pen name? :-)
NO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Kitplane Magazine Articles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
"jeff.hays@aselia.com" wrote:
> Has anybody else out there noticed, that a LOT of the articles about
> various kit planes, which appear in the various magazines, also
> happen to be authored by family members of, or employees themselves
> of the various kit manufacturer's?
That's the way it works, Jeff. At least for the maritime world, which I know
of. You pay for an ad in a magazine and you get the right to write some
editorial stuff. Ship instrument makers are selling ship instruments. Airplane
makers are selling airplanes and magazine editors are selling ... paper.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Kitplane Magazine Articles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Jeff,
Kitplanes Magazine is a great magazine and is completely independent of EAA.
When I saw your title, I thought that is what you were writing about. The
EAA magazines are good, but Kitplanes is by far my favorite.
And you are right. Earl is Ed's brother. But wasn't his article about the
new Sport Pilot rules? - Not kitfoxes?
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jeff.hays@aselia.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitplane Magazine Articles
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
<jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Has anybody else out there noticed, that a LOT of the articles about
various kit planes, which appear in the various magazines, also
happen to be authored by family members of, or employees themselves
of the various kit manufacturer's?
For instance there was a bunch of articles, out there about the Bearhawk
recently, which Budd Davisson authored. I really like the Bearhawk, but
the fact that Budd Davisson is also the president of Avipro who kits
the Bearhawk, kind of bother's me. Especially in that the articles
appear in magazine's like Sport Aviation which is an EAA pub.
Also Sport Pilot magazine just came out, espousing all the great things
about the Skystar, etc. I think the author's name was Earl Downs
who I'm pretty sure is related to Ed Downs
Anyway, I don't object to anybody writing an article about a plane, but
it bothers me, that somebody reads these articles to perhaps make a
buying decision about a plane, and the fact that the article is written
by the president of the kit company ... Anyway, you get the idea. It
just doesn't seem like an honest thing, especially for an organization
like EAA.
I for one sent a complaint via email to editorial@eaa.org about this
since I'm a member.
Regards,
Jeff Hays
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Thanks Michel, I must apologise for my ignorance of list protocol. Yes their is
so much to see and I suppose most of us have the usual constraints of time and
money. I see flying the same as those on the list do in that we need to understand
our aircraft, its characteristic, its problems when it wont behave etc
etc and we often sit around with a beer on a Friday or Saturday evening and discuss
these very issues. But we also fly because it allows us to experience places
that others cant. We recently had some blokes from the Tasmanian West Coast
through here and they told us of the beautiful flying conditions and spectacular
scenery they have. We are now planning a trip to that area so we can see
first hand what these guys experience daily. Thats what I suppose I was attempting
to achieve by writing to the list. The likelihood of finding myself flying
around Alaska is remote but someone out there might have considered this and
is inspired to follow through after reading another pilots story on their area
in Alaska. Im please your son enjoys Australia so much. Should he ever be
in my area I would be happy to show him around.
Graeme
Do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Magazine Articles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
That's the way it works, Jeff.
Michel,
Maybe that's the way it "works" for the nautical community, but I
disagree (respectfully) when it comes to aviation.
As an avid motorcyclist (read "Biker") the various publications used to
appear to write their articles based upon the heavy advertizers.
Back in the late '70's and '80's the rags used to be full of Honda ads
and guess what, the "test" reports used to sing the praises of Honda.
Not that I have anything against Honda (I used to race quite a few of
them) but certain production year models were inferior to the similar
Yamahas.
I have dropped my subscriptions to all but Cycle World as they do
maintain credability when it comes down to unbiased "Shoot-out" results.
Those results are the basis for most rider's purchases, I know because I
was in the business.
I did not enjoy many sales of Cagivas until about 1985 when CW gave good
reviews to the (then new) production machines.
Ed Foland and I raced these with success in many desert races and GP's
to include Baja 500 and 1000.
(Check the SCORE and AMA Dist.38 race archives if you think I'm B.S.ing)
The point that Jeff makes is valid, many people base their purchase
decisions on what the magazines print. If those articles are written by
the company president or employee, just how objective and believable can
it be?
To slip into a little Harley-Davidson mode if you'll forgive me, "If you
were selling your little sister on the street corner, would you really
tell the truth?"
Flame suit is donned.
Scott in Nome
DO NOT ARCHIVE (or forward to HD)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Kitplane Magazine Articles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeff Hays" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Well, you are free to make up your own mind about it. To me it demonstrate's
that
no matter what you do for fun, somebody's trying to make a buck off of it,
and that
can cause situations where the innocent/unknowing get misled.
Buy a kit based on an article about how great a kit is, find out maybe it's
not
so great, then read that the article was written by the manufacturer, and
printed
in magazine by an organization like EAA, which should be unbiased. I think
you'll
then not feel so great about the whole process.
Just my opinion's.
By the way, the Bearhawk article was in several magazines within a month or
so.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitplane Magazine Articles
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh"
<rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Jeff,
Kitplanes Magazine is a great magazine and is completely independent of EAA.
When I saw your title, I thought that is what you were writing about. The
EAA magazines are good, but Kitplanes is by far my favorite.
And you are right. Earl is Ed's brother. But wasn't his article about the
new Sport Pilot rules? - Not kitfoxes?
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jeff.hays@aselia.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitplane Magazine Articles
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
<jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Has anybody else out there noticed, that a LOT of the articles about
various kit planes, which appear in the various magazines, also
happen to be authored by family members of, or employees themselves
of the various kit manufacturer's?
For instance there was a bunch of articles, out there about the Bearhawk
recently, which Budd Davisson authored. I really like the Bearhawk, but
the fact that Budd Davisson is also the president of Avipro who kits
the Bearhawk, kind of bother's me. Especially in that the articles
appear in magazine's like Sport Aviation which is an EAA pub.
Also Sport Pilot magazine just came out, espousing all the great things
about the Skystar, etc. I think the author's name was Earl Downs
who I'm pretty sure is related to Ed Downs
Anyway, I don't object to anybody writing an article about a plane, but
it bothers me, that somebody reads these articles to perhaps make a
buying decision about a plane, and the fact that the article is written
by the president of the kit company ... Anyway, you get the idea. It
just doesn't seem like an honest thing, especially for an organization
like EAA.
I for one sent a complaint via email to editorial@eaa.org about this
since I'm a member.
Regards,
Jeff Hays
Message 11
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| Subject: | Magazine Articles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" <rdmac@swbell.net>
Scott,
Earl Downs is the twin brother of Ed. I met with Earl when I first started
looking at the Kit Fox. He lives in Cushing, Oklahoma and flies a Kit Fox
Lite and a fine looking Aaronca Champ.
Roger Mac
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott
McClintock
Subject: Kitfox-List: Magazine Articles
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock
<scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
<jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Has anybody else out there noticed, that a LOT of the articles about
various kit planes, which appear in the various magazines, also
happen to be authored by family members of, or employees themselves
of the various kit manufacturer's?
Jeff,
I read that article on the Bearhawk too. I didn't realize what the
relationship of the author was.
However, I thought it was a fair piece as it does mention some
shortcomings of the (prototype) aircraft.
With your revelation in mind, I suppose it can still be construed as an
"objective" article, all things considered?
Scott in Nome
Is "Earl Downs" just Ed's pen name? :-)
NO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 12
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| Subject: | Kitplane Magazine Articles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
I agree with you 100% Jeff, and your cause is a worthwhile. I don't have a
problem these people writing the articles about their own products at all.
Of course they will write them and they have every right to. I have a
problem with the publishers who have a responsibility to preface the article
with a caption that the article is written by an author with a vested
interest in the product. Most professional magazines (Engineering, Medical
etc.) will always do this. Your complaint is valid and we should demand more
professionalism, particularly in publications we are supporting with
membership dues.
SteveZ
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
jeff.hays@aselia.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitplane Magazine Articles
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
<jeff.hays@aselia.com>
Has anybody else out there noticed, that a LOT of the articles about
various kit planes, which appear in the various magazines, also
happen to be authored by family members of, or employees themselves
of the various kit manufacturer's?
For instance there was a bunch of articles, out there about the Bearhawk
recently, which Budd Davisson authored. I really like the Bearhawk, but
the fact that Budd Davisson is also the president of Avipro who kits
the Bearhawk, kind of bother's me. Especially in that the articles
appear in magazine's like Sport Aviation which is an EAA pub.
Also Sport Pilot magazine just came out, espousing all the great things
about the Skystar, etc. I think the author's name was Earl Downs
who I'm pretty sure is related to Ed Downs
Anyway, I don't object to anybody writing an article about a plane, but
it bothers me, that somebody reads these articles to perhaps make a
buying decision about a plane, and the fact that the article is written
by the president of the kit company ... Anyway, you get the idea. It
just doesn't seem like an honest thing, especially for an organization
like EAA.
I for one sent a complaint via email to editorial@eaa.org about this
since I'm a member.
Regards,
Jeff Hays
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: New London,VA fly in!! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " <kingjohn@erols.com>
David,
I'll probably be at the New London Fly-in on June 6th with my Series 6
Kitfox if the weather allows.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Dcecil3@aol.com wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
>
>I'm about 40 Minutes from lynchburg is anyone going to fly a Kitfox in?Would
>love to get a Look at a couple.Also an update on the delema with the FAA about
>my Model 3. Talked to a Rep. from the EAA and he was a great help.Got
>everything in order .If your not a member JOIN, I would have been SOL if not for
the
>EAA.Got all the parts to manufacture a new right wing from Skystar..Trucking
>Co. Crushed one of the Spars Skystar had another to me in 4 Days .Hopfully next
>year I'll be hitting the Fly-ins in Miss Kitty
> Best David Cecil
> N859DC
> KF model III Sure Feels good to be
>able to put my new N Number in here!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: New London,VA fly in!! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
This is for Gil and John,
Hope to see you at New London.Gil the weather here has been just as bad,
Thunder storms just about every day. We usually have nice weather in May, but this
year it really has been bad. Flew into Roanoke Tuesday from Albuquerque,NM.
Nice all the way to Atlanta, then it was like riding a 737 Basketball. We
bounced all the way into Roanoke. Hope the weathers nice next weekend.
Best David Cecil
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Kitplane Magazine Articles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Jeff,
The "Tuning Up Skystar" article in "EAA Sport Pilot" magazine was written by Dan
Johnson.
No relation to Ed Downs. No relation to Earl Downs either, Ed's twin brother.
I know Ed and have met Earl. They are both pretty good guys.
I think you complained to the wrong editor. Go after Kitplanes.
bh
> Also Sport Pilot magazine just came out, espousing all the great things
> about the Skystar, etc. I think the author's name was Earl Downs
> who I'm pretty sure is related to Ed Downs
>
> I for one sent a complaint via email to editorial@eaa.org about this since I'm
a member.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff Hays
Do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Kitplane Magazine Articles |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net>
Bruce,
Thanks for scoping that article information out. I think the original
poster meant magazines about homebuilts (aka kitplanes), but didn't mean
Kitplanes Magazine in particular. Kitplanes is taking a pretty independent
stance in keeping the editorial section divorced from the advertising
section, and an ad won't guarantee an uncritical article or review.
But in general, from a consumer's point of view, it's very important to keep
those issues separate. Some other magazines run advertorial sections (such
as those found in Fortune, etc.) which state right up front that it's a
paid-for piece.
best, Cory
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitplane Magazine Articles
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
>
> Jeff,
> The "Tuning Up Skystar" article in "EAA Sport Pilot" magazine was written
by Dan
> Johnson.
> No relation to Ed Downs. No relation to Earl Downs either, Ed's twin
brother.
> I know Ed and have met Earl. They are both pretty good guys.
> I think you complained to the wrong editor. Go after Kitplanes.
> bh
>
>
> > Also Sport Pilot magazine just came out, espousing all the great things
> > about the Skystar, etc. I think the author's name was Earl Downs
> > who I'm pretty sure is related to Ed Downs
> >
> > I for one sent a complaint via email to editorial@eaa.org about this
since I'm
> a member.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jeff Hays
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Im in the air!!!!!!! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kyle Ponsford" <wild_kyle@hotmail.com>
Thanks for all your imput and encouragement, It has been way to long since I
have flown the fox, but it is flying wonderful now and after about an hour
of chewing the seat with my backside, and huvering over the gages, I settled
down and began to really have a good time. oh man do I like to fly. My plane
sits on my lawn but now it just looks better after just flying.
I am one happy camper now!
see you in the sky.
Kyle
it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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