Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:56 AM - SV: I hate my plane (Michel Verheughe)
2. 02:09 AM - pitot (broschart)
3. 05:31 AM - Re: AFS Finishing System ? (Vic Jacko)
4. 05:52 AM - Re: N60Fs flies (jdmcbean)
5. 06:02 AM - Re: Stretch-Fox (jdmcbean)
6. 06:02 AM - Re: I hate my plane (jdmcbean)
7. 06:05 AM - AFS Finishing System ? (hausding, sid)
8. 06:07 AM - Re: AFS Finishing System ? (jdmcbean)
9. 06:14 AM - Cameron Park - Fly-in (jdmcbean)
10. 07:38 AM - Re: weird e-mails (Dennis Golden)
11. 03:22 PM - Insurance -HELP ()
12. 04:20 PM - Re: Insurance -HELP (jdmcbean)
13. 05:58 PM - Re: Insurance -HELP (Fred Shiple)
14. 07:33 PM - Master solenoid - A confession! (Randy Daughenbaugh)
15. 09:16 PM - Ribs (Bill Pleso)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: jeff.hays@aselia.com
> I hate my Kitfox, it doesn't do any of the things it's supposed to do:
Good one, Jeff! :-)
I must say that, although I have very few hours on a Kitfox, I share your feelings,
my plane behaves like a lady. It is maybe in the human nature to focus on
what could go wrong, instead of what goes well. But safety is the paramount of
aviation priorities and this list probably helps a lot of new pilots to be aware
of what can go wrong.
... but most of the time, Kitfox flying is fun, fun and fun! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: broschart <cfbflyer@localnet.com>
now with the warm weather remember to use raid or some thing similar to
keep the mud daubers from clogging the pitot tube
(disregard in the southern himisvier)
Have a good day - Charlie
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: AFS Finishing System ? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
I agree with Fred on the difficulty of using the final finish coat. Noel
suggested you use very fine and many coats of the final product.
I really liked the use of the Cecobond and the Cecofil products which are
part of the AFS system You can use these products in your garage or front
room as they have hardly any odor when applying. Poly products have a
very nasty smell that will drive your better half up the wall.
I was tempted to use another product for the final coat but instead just
learned how to apply the AFS final coat.
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy" <fultz@trip.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: AFS Finishing System ?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy" <fultz@trip.net>
>
>
> O.K. Gang,
>
> I've seen Fred's comment on the AFS system of cover and finish, now I
> would like to hear from others who have used the system or can refer me to
> others who have used the system. I'm seriously considering this system
and
> need your input. Thanks.
>
> Andy Fultz
> AVID Speedwing Extended
> Stratus EA-81 stretched fuselage
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Congrats Fred !! Looks great !! can't wait to see it in person.... Great to
see you and your daughter at Cameron. Have lots a fun and be safe !!
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred Shiple
Subject: Kitfox-List: N60Fs flies
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple <fredshiple@sbcglobal.net>
Just completed flying off FAA's 40 hours. N60FS is an S6/912S that came in
at 820#. Gained some weight with a Prop-link hub (17#), 8" tires (8#), lexan
doors and turtledeck(8#) and that uneccesary (but not an option for this old
car guy) extra coat of paint (8-10#). Used AFS's water based urethane (don't
ask!). Its equipped for day VFR and will go on floats next summer.
It flies honestly as Skystar advertized and was worth the 3 years work (took
about 6 months off during the process for good behavior). Thanks to the many
members of the list whose help made things go much more smoothly and
especially to John McBean. We all need to appreciate how lucky we are to
have John's help on the list.
Blue Skys!
Fred
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Rod,
Good choice... You'll enjoy the IV.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rod Ewing
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Stretch-Fox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rod Ewing" <rode@alaska.com>
Paul
Nimble in the air and possibly squirrely on the ground...... I guess flying
light planes will always have trade-offs. I live on a lake that is frozen
for five months and open for five months...so most of the time it will be
skiis or floats....both are much easier to handle on the surface than
wheels. The problem is in the two months of transition each year..... in
the past I had a Bellanca Scout and the first few landings on wheels were
sometimes exciting .... hence my concern with the Kitfox and groundlooping.
Thank you for your advice.....I truly wish to fly a plane that is more fun
than a Cub. I have decided to stay with the stock fuselage. For future
reference, I will continue the research on the extension, to see how much
work is involved and what those trade offs may be.
It was "nimble" that did it for me
Thank you- Rod
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Stretch-Fox
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Seehafer" <av8rps@tznet.com>
>
> Vic:
>
> Sounds like you just need to find an Avid Magnum kit laying around that is
> not finished. Already designed for an 0-320 on up to an 0-360. With the
> 160 hp 0-320 it is an awesome performer (I mean really awesome!!!). A
> friend has one, so my experiences are close to firsthand. On floats it
is
> incredible. Big baggage, large cabin, lots of fuel, and (wheeled) cruise
> speeds with the standard high lift airfoil around 125-130 mph.
>
> But, I think the Magnum also makes a good argument for not extending one's
> fueslage. For as long as it is, it can still be a handful. And I'm
certain
> the Magnum has a much longer fuselage than would an extended Kitfox.
>
> (Rod) Personally, I wouldn't want to give up the nimble handling that
comes
> from the short coupled fuselage the Kitfox has. I started flying Avids
way
> back when they were really short coupled (a Kitfox is long by comparison).
> Never was a problem for ground handling. You just have to learn it. And
> even though the Fox is only slightly longer than the Avid fuselage, you
can
> already tell when comparing the two that the Kitfox is not quite as
nimble.
> I therefore would not extend the fuselage. In my opinion a Kitfox would
now
> fly too much like a Cub. Just wouldn't be as much fun...
>
> Paul S
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Stretch-Fox
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Sounds like the makings of a "Super Fox" that I may one day build if I
can
> > find a derelict 5,6 or 7 someone has given up on.
> >
> > I would very much like to mount the battery right up front and not have
to
> > sweep the wings forward.
> >
> > My not so scientific calculations tell me I would extend the fuse
exactly
> > 12" right in front of the rudder. This should allow the use of a heavy
> > engine and battery located forward.
> >
> > By the time you replace all the heavy stuff on the Lycoming 0-235 I
think
> > you would end up with about a 225 lb engine package ready to fly. If
you
> do
> > the same to the Lycoming 0-320 E2D you would have an engine package that
> > add another 31 lbs and have about 175 horsepower with proper ignition
and
> > exhaust mods. We have the makings of a 899 lb Super Fox.
> >
> > Please somebody build it and I will be your mentor and get the first
test
> > flight. Cliff B. will probably challenge me on that.
> >
> > I will be out of town this week but will be very interested in hearing
> > responses.
> >
> > Derelict Series 5,6 or 7 where are you?
> >
> > Vic
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Stretch-Fox
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
> <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> > >
> > > Good point. I'm sure the aoa would be affected slightly, but we're
only
> > > talking about extending the frame a few inches and I don't think the
> > affect
> > > on aoa would amount to enough of a difference to matter. The reason I
> > > responded to this thread was that just extending the fuse would be a
> > > relatively simple fix for the problems encountered with the heavy
> engines.
> > > If I were to do it over again I'd give some serious thought to going
> this
> > > route. The only problem I can see is "how much and where".
> > > Darrel
> > >
> > > > The math is beyond me as well. I imagine there must be a multitude
> of
> > > > issues to be resolved. For instance, in the three point
> configuration
> > > the
> > > > angle of attack would lessen as the fuselage became longer. In the
> > Pacer
> > > > mod, I believe the main landing gear was made taller to compensate
> for
> > > the
> > > > AOA and provide ground clearance for a longer prop. I will ask a
> > friend
> > > > who has completed quite a few Pacer "Performer" conversions. I
> havent
> > > > covered my fuselage yet and am compelled to pursue this line of
> thought.
> > > > Any and all ideas or comments will be greatly appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Rod
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> > > > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Stretch-Fox
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
> > > <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> > > > >
> > > > > I've often thought about this. Doesn't seem to be a difficult
thing
> > to
> > > do
> > > > > and if done correctly by a competent welder it shouldn't derogate
> the
> > > > > structual strength of the airplane. It would also solve all the
> > > problems
> > > > of
> > > > > wing sweep, battery in the tail, loooonnnngggg hot battery cables,
> and
> > > the
> > > > > list goes on, not to mention the lighter overall weight. The
> question
> > > is
> > > > > how much should be added? The math would be beyond me.
> > > > > Darrel
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Rod Ewing" <rode@alaska.com>
> > > > > To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > > > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Stretch-Fox
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rod Ewing" <rode@alaska.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Over the past year there has been a lot of mention of gap
sealing
> to
> > > > > increase rudder and elevator authority a low speeds, also a fair
> bit
> > of
> > > > > concern regarding ground loops. Does anyone know of builder who
> has
> > > > > lengthened the fuselage of a model IV? It would seem to be an
> > > advantage
> > > > > especially if considering a heavier power plant. I know it has
> proven
> > > > quite
> > > > > successful in bush plane modified Piper Pacers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rod-Model IV project
> > > > > > Wasilla, Alaska
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Sounds like you have one of the horrible Kitfox's that just does what its
taught.....
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
jeff.hays@aselia.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: I hate my plane
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com"
<jeff.hays@aselia.com>
I hate my Kitfox, it doesn't do any of the things it's supposed to do:
It doesn't stop flying like a shuttlecock when flaring, no instead it
floats forever.
It isn't squirrely when landing, so I haven't been able to ground loop
it.
The elevator still doesn't run out of authority, EVEN though I made
it heavy up front with a BIG beefy IO-240, nope it still wants to land
tailwheel first when I three point it. I even lightened the tail with
an Odyssey battery in the hope that this lightening the tail would do
it. All to no avail.
It doesn't snap upside down and whip into a spin when I slow fly
it with crossed controls ... I was hoping that this dangerous slip
behaviour would make a better pilot of me, but nope it won't do it.
I didn't airfoil my spring gear, gas caps, put on wheel pants,
or any of this. In fact I added 8.50x6.00 tires, all in an effort
to increase drag, but yet it still cruises the same speed, and
floats when landing ...
I just don't get it - I've been on the various kitfox lists for
a bunch of years now, and consistently my plane is supposed to do
all these things, but it won't. The only thing I can figure, is
I'm just a crappy pilot, and can't get the typical Kitfox behaviour
out of it ...
Jeff Hays
Message 7
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| Subject: | AFS Finishing System ? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@CHARTER.NET>
I was wondering about this myself. Recently we heard something to the
effect AFS was having some problems with final and finishing coats sticking
to the covering process. I do not know if this is rumor or fact, but do
know one major supplier dropped the line of products, but this could be for
any reason(s), including there own shortcomings............I really like the
environmental and people friendly aspects and would like to use it myself
Any body else got some info?
Sid
-----------------------------------
I agree with Fred on the difficulty of using the final finish coat. Noel
suggested you use very fine and many coats of the final product.
I really liked the use of the Cecobond and the Cecofil products which
are
part of the AFS system You can use these products in your garage or front
room as they have hardly any odor when applying. Poly products have a
very nasty smell that will drive your better half up the wall.
I was tempted to use another product for the final coat but instead just
learned how to apply the AFS final coat.
Vic
-----
> O.K. Gang,
>
> I've seen Fred's comment on the AFS system of cover and finish, now I
> would like to hear from others who have used the system or can refer me to
> others who have used the system. I'm seriously considering this system
and
> need your input. Thanks.
>
> Andy
Message 8
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| Subject: | AFS Finishing System ? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Andy,
You may want to talk with Noel at Blue Sky.. He stopped using the AFS
system.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy
Subject: Kitfox-List: AFS Finishing System ?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy" <fultz@trip.net>
O.K. Gang,
I've seen Fred's comment on the AFS system of cover and finish, now I
would like to hear from others who have used the system or can refer me to
others who have used the system. I'm seriously considering this system and
need your input. Thanks.
Andy Fultz
AVID Speedwing Extended
Stratus EA-81 stretched fuselage
Message 9
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| Subject: | Cameron Park - Fly-in |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Thank You Lowell and Kay Fitt for sharing your home and your friendship.
Debra and I will look forward to seeing you next year. By the way.. flying
Rye Patch is a nice break from the Nevada desert.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
The Sky is not the Limit Its a Playground
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: weird e-mails |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dennis Golden <dgolden@golden-consulting.com>
Don Pearsall wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
>
> Hello All Listers,
> Darrel and I have been discussing these emails. With the move to web-based
> subscription, some spammers may be able to slip through and get on the list.
> We are un-subscribing list members who send suspicious messages to the list.
The problem is that the spammers usually masquerade as legitimate users.
You cannot tell by looking at the "From" line and that is what most list
servers compare to see if the sender is subscribed.
> Fortunately, you will never receive any attachments to the emails, so
> viruses will never come from this list.
> Matt also monitors and cleans the lists of spammers all the time, so if some
> make it on, they will be gone soon.
>
> Thanks for your patience.
>
>
> Don Pearsall
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cory Emberson
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: weird e-mails
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson"
> --> <bootless@earthlink.net>
>
> I have, too. It's a PITA.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Fabian
> To: kitfox list
> Subject: Kitfox-List: weird e-mails
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian"
> <experimental208nd@comcast.net>
>
> Has anyone else been getting weird emails from the list? It has all the
> addresses from the matronics list.
> I have gotten three in the last few days.
>
> Just wondering.
> Jay Fabian
Regards,
Dennis
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <barryhuston@adelphia.net>
Falcon Insurance and a number of other companies.tell me that US Specialty Aviation
in Texas is the only underwriter in the country that
will underwrite a Kitfox on amphibious floats.
I do not have a floatplane rating yet and have a total of 200 hours of non-Fox
time but 60 of those hours are hi performance retract gear time.
Also I have given them the option to just have my CFI as the named pilot and have
him get additional instruction in my Fox if necessary.
They still refuse to underwrite my plane.
HELP
Thanks
Barry
barryhuston@adelphia.net
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
From experience it is very difficult to get insurance on a floatplane
period... Now add wheels and experimental it gets almost impossible. I have
had very good luck using AOPA insurance.. they have done a great job for me
and others. If it helps... I am a CFI with a Sea plane rating and have
several hours in an amphib Kitfox.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
barryhuston@adelphia.net
Subject: Kitfox-List: Insurance -HELP
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <barryhuston@adelphia.net>
Falcon Insurance and a number of other companies.tell me that US Specialty
Aviation in Texas is the only underwriter in the country that
will underwrite a Kitfox on amphibious floats.
I do not have a floatplane rating yet and have a total of 200 hours of
non-Fox time but 60 of those hours are hi performance retract gear time.
Also I have given them the option to just have my CFI as the named pilot and
have him get additional instruction in my Fox if necessary.
They still refuse to underwrite my plane.
HELP
Thanks
Barry
barryhuston@adelphia.net
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance -HELP |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple <fredshiple@sbcglobal.net>
Have you tried dealing with Falcon as a member of the Seaplane Pilots Association?
They are doing insurance for my S6 and have indicated no problem obtaining insurance
when it goes on floats- just send them lots of money. I'll also need the
seaplane endorsement and Kitfox specific floatplane training. You can find them
at seaplanes.org.
Fred
Falcon Insurance and a number of other companies.tell me that US Specialty Aviation
in Texas is the only underwriter in the country that
will underwrite a Kitfox on amphibious floats.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Master solenoid - A confession! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
A while back I asked the list if I should have voltage on the other side of
the master solenoid if the solenoid was "off". I got a new solenoid from
Aircraft Spruce. It did the same thing!
Well, I think Ted was closest with his comment that the voltage must be
coming from some where else. After a lot of frustration, I started
unhooking things. I finally tracked it down to batteries in the GPS! -
which was plugged into a cigarette lighter type accessory plug.
I now have a really swell spare master solenoid.
Randy - N10NH Still building and testing - rather be flying! (Never
thought I would say that!)
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bill Pleso" <bill77@cox.net>
Builders,
The book shows 3 hinge points for the rudder, but my fuselage has 4 (they don't
line up very well). Anyone know why the change was made? Would it be possible
for somebody to send me (snail mail) a paper or cardboard pattern for the
wooden ribs on the vertical stabilizer and rudder for the Model IV? Thanks.
Bill
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