---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/21/04: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:53 AM - Rutan again (Fox5flyer) 2. 06:27 AM - transponder (hausding, sid) 3. 06:27 AM - Re: series 5 bubble doors (Howard Firm) 4. 08:03 AM - OFF TOPIC Seattle, Wa (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 5. 09:07 AM - Re: Master solenoid - A confession! (jareds) 6. 09:37 AM - microair transponder (Michael Gibbs) 7. 10:46 AM - Re: Master solenoid - A confession! (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 8. 10:59 AM - Re: O-235 Battery (Tinne maha) 9. 12:43 PM - Re: O-235 Battery (Clifford Begnaud) 10. 01:10 PM - 912 spark plug gap (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 11. 01:18 PM - flat batteries (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 12. 01:19 PM - Re: OFF TOPIC Seattle, Wa (Ted Palamarek) 13. 03:16 PM - Re: Master solenoid - A confession! (jareds) 14. 03:16 PM - Re Vernier Throttle (Rex & Jan Shaw) 15. 07:04 PM - Re: microair transponder (Jay Fabian) 16. 07:54 PM - Re: 912 spark plug gap (John E. King) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:53:40 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Rutan again --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/index.htm Most of you already know about this, but if not tune in CNN at 0630 PST for this historic flight. Darrel ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:23 AM PST US From: "hausding, sid" Subject: Kitfox-List: transponder --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" Thanks for sharing that info and the reply Andy. Its those types of questions and answers that shared amongst us can save some money, time and headaches.........also, allows us to make that 'final' choice for the best equipment. Eastern Avionics has some rebuilt small panel equipment in radios and transponders that you may want to look at also. Sid ----------------------- I just sent an inquiry to MicroAir about their transponders. That exchange is quoted below. Andy _______________________________ MicroAir Avionics Web Site - Form An enquiry for you has been received through the Microair WebSite ***************************************************************** Name : Andy Fultz Address : 1030 Fultz Road Starkville, Ms 39759 Country : USA Email Address : fultz@trip.net Phone Number : Fax Number : ***************************************************************** Comments : I have been considering your T2000SFL transponder for my project and am very near a purchase. I do have concerns though, for I have had several users of your product recommend that I not purchase a Microair transponder. They have cited issues such as power switch problems, software problems, quality control problems and a lack of response from the factory. I would certainly like to hear from you on these issues before I make a final decision. I can't afford to spend money on something that may or may not function properly. Please let me hear your side of the story. Thanks in advance. Andy ***************************************************************** Enquiry Submitted : Sunday, June 06, 2004 And here's their response Hi Andy, What you have heard may have some element of truth to it. Our transponder did have some teething problems but our latest version 5 upgrade has overcome those. It is the bit about, "lack of response" from the factory that bothers me. If we have a known problem we get the transponders returned and they are upgraded or replace accordingly at no cost to the customer. We also have 2 x technicians to help either on-line or by phone when required. We also have "Out of Warranty Service Centers" in the USA, all warranty issues are dealt with in Australia where we can monitor everything. If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me. Regards, Carol Bretag-Gillard Sales & Marketing Microair Avionics Pty Ltd Ph: + 61 7 4155 3048 Fax: + 61 7 4155 3049 Email: carol@microair.com.au Web: www.microair.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: MicroAir Web Enquiry Subject: MicroAir Dealer from Andy Fultz ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:23 AM PST US From: "Howard Firm" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: series 5 bubble doors --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" Danny, Do you know what exactly type of tape you used? I'd like to use your method. Howard Firm 508 12th St. South Virginia MN 55792 > > I don't remember exactly. Probably 6-8 inches. The 3M tape is what is really holding them on. The screws are for security. > > Danny Melnik > F1 #25 > Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:01 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: OFF TOPIC Seattle, Wa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Who do we have that lives in Seattle, Wa.? I'm flying to commercial to SEA on 24 July 04 to catch a cruise line to Alaska (Norwegian Star). I need some information on where SEA is in relation to the Norwegian Star. Also, "Cheap" motel near where the Star berths and any information on the best way to get from SEA to the Star. Will be 4 in our party. Please contact off list. Thanks, Don Smythe Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:59 AM PST US From: jareds Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Master solenoid - A confession! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds Randy, Lucky for you that fixed it. I had just replaced my batteries on 2 GPS' and hoped that when unplugging them it would fix my drain too but am going to take Don Smythe' advice and put a mast switch in to break all secondary juice when the plane is sitting idle during the week. I'm not looking fwd to the troubleshooting process! Jared Randy Daughenbaugh wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" > >A while back I asked the list if I should have voltage on the other side of >the master solenoid if the solenoid was "off". I got a new solenoid from >Aircraft Spruce. It did the same thing! > >Well, I think Ted was closest with his comment that the voltage must be >coming from some where else. After a lot of frustration, I started >unhooking things. I finally tracked it down to batteries in the GPS! - >which was plugged into a cigarette lighter type accessory plug. > >I now have a really swell spare master solenoid. > >Randy - N10NH Still building and testing - rather be flying! (Never >thought I would say that!) > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:37:56 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Kitfox-List: microair transponder --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs Bruce asks: >Anybody out there had success with a microair T 2000 transponder in >their airplane. I have one in mine and it works most of the time. On one occasion I had ATC tell me they weren't getting a return even though the unit showed a reply indicator. I powered it off and back on again but was not able to get it to work in the air. As soon as I landed, turning it off and back on made things right again. On another occasion, the display started reading "No comm" but I got no complaints from the tower and I landed uneventfully. Once again it came up OK after cycling power on the ground. Another local 'foxer has had more trouble with his than I have. He believes it has to do with bus voltage. On the ground he's down in the 12 volt range and it starts up reliably but in flight it's up in the 14 volt range and often will not start working again once it gets confused. I kicked around the idea of trying a resistor on the power pin to drop the transponder to a couple of volts below the rest of the system, but that's just speculation on my part. I wonder how I can tell if we have version 5 transponders... Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:46:45 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Master solenoid - A confession! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 6/21/04 9:09:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jareds@verizon.net writes: > Randy, > Lucky for you that fixed it. I had just replaced my batteries on 2 GPS' > and hoped that when unplugging them it would fix my drain too but am > going to take Don Smythe' advice and put a mast switch in to break all > secondary juice when the plane is sitting idle during the week. > > I'm not looking fwd to the troubleshooting process! > > Jared > Jared, I've had my GPS batteries die twice but it was because I forgot to "turn off" the GPS first before killing the master. If you do this, and turn off just the master, the GPS switches to internal battery and runs down while you are at home. To the best of my knowledge, my GPS does not feed back on the electrical system once the master is killed. I don't understand your above comment about my secondary master. My secondary switch takes 12VDC straight from the battery and bypasses the solenoid. Has nothing to do with breaking secondary juice. My switch will supply a path from battery to the main DC buss in case the "solenoid" fails..... Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:17 AM PST US From: "Tinne maha" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" Thank You for the awesome post, Cliff! You answered my question more! I am using the airfoiled tail sections one LSE ignition until I burn out both mags when I will probably switch to two LSEs. I haven't checked out theEllison TB link yet but will be soon. I havechecked out the batterylinkand will be looking into using the 12 lb, 14 A-H battery. I have been wondering about the performance figures and am pleasantly surprised by yours. How many hours does your plane have? Does the TB increase fuel efficiency over the carburetor? Although I have already purchased a wood Sensenich prop, I am curious about yours. Could you please send me any info you might have on it? Thanks again, Grant From: "Clifford Begnaud" shoeless@barefootpilot.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" shoeless@barefootpilot.com Grant, This is the battery in our kitfox with Lycoming 0-235. (http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=ODY-PC680) This battery is nothing short of amazing. It is mounted in the tail and will crank the engine tirelessly, not that it really needs to. ;-) With a light electrical load you may indeed be able to get by with a smaller battery. Batteries Plus has some AGM batteries that are about 9-10 lbs and have 12 ah capacity. The key to good cranking power is to have the proper sized cable run back there to the battery. If you do, then a 12 ah battery would probably work. Also, if you are using the poly fiber process and especially if you have the airfoiled tail surfaces, then the lighter battery should work fine for the CG. Worst case would be that you could bolt some lead to the towing mount hole near the aft end of the plane when flying solo. For any other loads, just pull it off. Also, if you want to assure that your engine will start, no matter what, be sure to use a primer and install one Lightspeed Engineering electronic ignition, http://www.lightspeedengineering.com, along with one magneto . Better yet, use an Ellison throttle body carb with the LSE, http://www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/. On our kitfox, we have two LSE ignitions (no mags, hurray) and an Ellison carb. We can park the plane out on a cold night (20 deg F) and the next morning we can "hand prop" it with ONE flip of the prop. And that is with NO preheating!! Simply amazing! This combination gives us a cruise speed of 130 mph at 2600 rpm, burning 5.25 gph. (we could go faster with a cruise prop) Please note that if you use two LSE ignitions, you should install a small 5 ah AGM battery as a backup, we did and this combination works great. BTW, the prop is an Aymar Demuth. Best Regards, Cliff ps, Let me know if you want more info on this setup Hello listers, I am building a series 5 TD w/O-235 and would like to put in the lightest batterypossible in the tail without having to add balast. My electrical requirements will not be very significant so I can get by electricallywith a light battery (11 AH min). I've been told that I cannot figure the Weight Balance before I cover so I don't know how to deal with this issue. Can someone help here? Can anyone here with the same configuration tell me how small your battery is? Thanks, Grant ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:44 PM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Grant, Our plane has about 300 hours TT and the engine was overhauled before being installed, so it has the same hours. I think that the Ellison does contribute to the low fuel burn as well as the LSE ignition. But I have never compared it to a carb. Keep in mind that I only get 5.25 gph fuel burn above 7500' when cruising at 2600 rpm. It burns more down low. Our prop is an Aymar Demuth, 72X47. I like it very much, but unless you operate out of short, high elevation airstrips, a little more pitch would be appropriate. They don't have a web site that I know of, but their phone number is 410-461-4329. One nice thing that they do is on the leading edge protection, it is made of ground steel mixed into some kind of epoxy or plastic and applied to the leading edge. It's very tough, but not indestructible. I'm in the middle of a repair right now. Be sure to put a big fat cable on that battery! Best Regards, Cliff PS, where are you located? > > Thank You for the awesome post, Cliff! You answered my question more! I am using the airfoiled tail sections one LSE ignition until I burn out both mags when I will probably switch to two LSEs. I haven't checked out theEllison TB link yet but will be soon. I havechecked out the batterylinkand will be looking into using the 12 lb, 14 A-H battery. > > > I have been wondering about the performance figures and am pleasantly surprised by yours. How many hours does your plane have? Does the TB increase fuel efficiency over the carburetor? Although I have already purchased a wood Sensenich prop, I am curious about yours. Could you please send me any info you might have on it? > > > Grant, > This is the battery in our kitfox with Lycoming 0-235. > (http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=ODY-PC680) > This battery is nothing short of amazing. It is mounted in the tail and > will crank the engine tirelessly, not that it really needs to. ;-) > With a light electrical load you may indeed be able to get by with a smaller > battery. Batteries Plus has some AGM batteries that are about 9-10 lbs and > have 12 ah capacity. The key to good cranking power is to have the proper > sized cable run back there to the battery. If you do, then a 12 ah battery > would probably work. Also, if you are using the poly fiber process and > especially if you have the airfoiled tail surfaces, then the lighter battery > should work fine for the CG. Worst case would be that you could bolt some > lead to the towing mount hole near the aft end of the plane when flying > solo. For any other loads, just pull it off. > > Also, if you want to assure that your engine will start, no matter what, be > sure to use a primer and install one Lightspeed Engineering electronic > ignition, http://www.lightspeedengineering.com, along with one magneto . > Better yet, use an Ellison throttle body carb with the LSE, > http://www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/. On our kitfox, we have two LSE > ignitions (no mags, hurray) and an Ellison carb. We can park the plane out > on a cold night (20 deg F) and the next morning we can "hand prop" it with > ONE flip of the prop. And that is with NO preheating!! Simply amazing! > This combination gives us a cruise speed of 130 mph at 2600 rpm, burning > 5.25 gph. (we could go faster with a cruise prop) > Please note that if you use two LSE ignitions, you should install a small 5 > ah AGM battery as a backup, we did and this combination works great. > BTW, the prop is an Aymar Demuth. > Best Regards, > Cliff > ps, Let me know if you want more info on this setup > > > Hello listers, > > > I am building a series 5 TD w/O-235 and would like to put in the lightest > batterypossible in the tail without having to add balast. My electrical > requirements will not be very significant so I can get by electricallywith a > light battery (11 AH min). I've been told that I cannot figure the Weight > Balance before I cover so I don't know how to deal with this issue. Can > someone help here? > > > Can anyone here with the same configuration tell me how small your battery > is? > > > Thanks, > > > Grant > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:44 PM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 spark plug gap --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net I'm experiencing a little puzzlement in doing the annual condition inspection and checking the gap on the spark plugs against the manual. The 912UL handbook calls for a gap or .5mm or.02" (memory) and I am sure that in the past I had used a different reference that suggested something like .7mm. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? John ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:22 PM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Kitfox-List: flat batteries --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net I am trying a new approach with RG battery--loading up the system with strobes and nav lights whenever the engine is running, thinking that using some of the current from the alternator, less impact will be experienced by the battery. What say you list members? On the initial flight the volt/ammeter was indicating more in the 12+V range than the normal 13.8V. John ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:32 PM PST US From: "Ted Palamarek" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: OFF TOPIC Seattle, Wa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" Don Did you get any replies?? If not I could get you some info from a Cousin who lives in Seattle. Ted Edmonton DO NOT ARCHIVE <<<>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: OFF TOPIC Seattle, Wa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Who do we have that lives in Seattle, Wa.? I'm flying to commercial to SEA on 24 July 04 to catch a cruise line to Alaska (Norwegian Star). I need some information on where SEA is in relation to the Norwegian Star. Also, "Cheap" motel near where the Star berths and any information on the best way to get from SEA to the Star. Will be 4 in our party. Please contact off list. Thanks, Don Smythe Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:12 PM PST US From: jareds Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Master solenoid - A confession! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds Don, I had understood a previous message in that you had eliminated your solenoid for the panel in lew of a regular switch but kept the starter solenoid. My plan for now was to just add a kind of "kill switch" to the panel except my clock until or if i found what was draining the batteries during the week. AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > >In a message dated 6/21/04 9:09:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >jareds@verizon.net writes: > > > > >>Randy, >>Lucky for you that fixed it. I had just replaced my batteries on 2 GPS' >>and hoped that when unplugging them it would fix my drain too but am >>going to take Don Smythe' advice and put a mast switch in to break all >>secondary juice when the plane is sitting idle during the week. >> >>I'm not looking fwd to the troubleshooting process! >> >>Jared >> >> >> > >Jared, > I've had my GPS batteries die twice but it was because I forgot to "turn >off" the GPS first before killing the master. If you do this, and turn off >just the master, the GPS switches to internal battery and runs down while you >are at home. > To the best of my knowledge, my GPS does not feed back on the electrical >system once the master is killed. > I don't understand your above comment about my secondary master. My >secondary switch takes 12VDC straight from the battery and bypasses the solenoid. >Has nothing to do with breaking secondary juice. My switch will supply a >path from battery to the main DC buss in case the "solenoid" fails..... > >Don Smythe >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:39 PM PST US From: Rex & Jan Shaw Subject: Kitfox-List: Re Vernier Throttle --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex & Jan Shaw I have a vernier throttle on my MKIV 582. At first I thought it arkward but just a little getting used to it and it's the best I reckon, Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:51 PM PST US From: "Jay Fabian" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: microair transponder --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" Do not get me started again on my Micro air radio. It broke at 2 months old, and then took about 9 months to fix it . Then it was out of warrenty, and if it broke again they would not fix it unless I paid for it , even though they had it for my full years time with me not using it. So I did not buy the transponder when it came out. Jay Fabian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allan Aaron" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: microair transponder > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Allan Aaron" > > That exchange sums up my experience with my transponder. I had one early problem which the factory fixed at their cost when notified. I'm happy with mine. > > Allan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy [mailto:fultz@trip.net] > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: microair transponder > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy" > > Bruce, > > I just sent an inquiry to MicroAir about their transponders. That > exchange is quoted below. > > Andy > _______________________________ > MicroAir Avionics Web Site - Form > > An enquiry for you has been received through the Microair WebSite > ***************************************************************** > Name : Andy Fultz > Address : 1030 Fultz Road Starkville, Ms 39759 > Country : USA > Email Address : fultz@trip.net > Phone Number : > Fax Number : > > ***************************************************************** > Comments : I have been considering your T2000SFL transponder for my project > and am very near a purchase. I do have concerns though, for I have had > several users of your product recommend that I not purchase a Microair > transponder. They have cited issues such as power switch problems, software > problems, quality control problems and a lack of response from the factory. > I would certainly like to hear from you on these issues before I make a > final decision. I can't afford to spend money on something that may or may > not function properly. Please let me hear your side of the story. Thanks in > advance. Andy > ***************************************************************** > > > Enquiry Submitted : Sunday, June 06, 2004 > > > And here's their response > > Hi Andy, > > What you have heard may have some element of truth to it. > > Our transponder did have some teething problems but our latest version 5 > upgrade has overcome those. > > It is the bit about, "lack of response" from the factory that bothers me. > If we have a known problem we get the transponders returned and they are > upgraded or replace accordingly at no cost to the customer. We also have 2 > x technicians to help either on-line or by phone when required. > > We also have "Out of Warranty Service Centers" in the USA, all warranty > issues are dealt with in Australia where we can monitor everything. > > If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me. > > Regards, > > Carol Bretag-Gillard > Sales & Marketing > Microair Avionics Pty Ltd > Ph: + 61 7 4155 3048 > Fax: + 61 7 4155 3049 > Email: carol@microair.com.au > Web: www.microair.com.au > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MicroAir Web Enquiry > To: carol@microair.com.au > Subject: MicroAir Dealer from Andy Fultz > > > The information transmitted in this email is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient(s), any retention, review, retransmission, disclosure, distribution, dissemination, copying, printing, or other use of, or the taking of any > action in reliance upon, this information is strictly prohibited and without liability on our part. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender by replying > and delete this email from any computer so that it is not recoverable. Technology Venture Partners does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:57 PM PST US From: "John E. King " Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 spark plug gap --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " John, The Rotax Maintenance Manual specifies .028 to .031 inches. I set them to .028". -- John King Warrenton, VA kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net > >I'm experiencing a little puzzlement in doing the annual condition inspection and checking the gap on the spark plugs against the manual. The 912UL handbook calls for a gap or .5mm or.02" (memory) and I am sure that in the past I had used a different reference that suggested something like .7mm. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? > >John > > > >