Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:51 AM - Re: Another Fox Flies pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- ------------------------------------------- (Fox5flyer)
2. 04:09 AM - Re: Props; was: O-235 Battery (Bruce Lina)
3. 04:13 AM - Re: O-235 Battery (Bruce Lina)
4. 04:27 AM - (Marc Arseneault)
5. 05:03 AM - Re: Props; was: O-235 Battery (Clifford Begnaud)
6. 05:20 AM - Re: Another Fox Flies pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- ------------------------------------------- (Vic Jacko)
7. 06:22 AM - Re: Props; was: O-235 Battery (W Duke)
8. 06:37 AM - Re: Another Fox Flies pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- ------------------------------------------- (Lowell Fitt)
9. 07:47 AM - Re: Another Fox Flies (Michel Verheughe)
10. 10:07 AM - Re: Another Fox Flies pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- ------------------------------------------- (Fred Shiple)
11. 11:56 AM - KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent (Marco Menezes)
12. 12:47 PM - Re: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground? (Steve Magdic)
13. 12:54 PM - Re: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground? (Vic Jacko)
14. 01:06 PM - Re: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground? (Steve Magdic)
15. 01:12 PM - Re: KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent (Lowell Fitt)
16. 01:15 PM - Re: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground? (Lowell Fitt)
17. 01:18 PM - Re: KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent (Bob Robertson)
18. 01:22 PM - Re: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground? (flier)
19. 01:24 PM - Re: KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent (Marco Menezes)
20. 01:31 PM - Re: KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent (Marco Menezes)
21. 01:43 PM - Re: KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
22. 01:50 PM - Re: Props; was: O-235 Battery (Bruce Lina)
23. 04:29 PM - Re: Props; was: O-235 Battery (Clifford Begnaud)
24. 06:19 PM - Re: Props; was: O-235 Battery (Jeff Hays)
25. 06:30 PM - Re: Carb Balance 912S (Daniel Aller)
26. 07:48 PM - Re: Carb Balance 912S (Wwillyard@aol.com)
27. 09:26 PM - Compass (Bob Unternaehrer)
28. 11:42 PM - Re: Compass (Tyrohelmer@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Another Fox Flies pts rule name |
description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Congrats Norm. Now the fun begins!
Darrel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norm Beauchamp" <nebchmp@wcc.net>
description ---- ---------------------- ------------------------------------
-------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Norm Beauchamp <nebchmp@wcc.net>
>
> I passed the inspection today and flew N66180 (" Nothin Fancy") today .
> Its been a long haul, I'm slow, but Don't Ever Give Up!!!. The kit
> was delivered July 2nd 96 At that time I didn't even have my license.
> I got it a year and a half later after I retired. I have lost my medical
> twice, gone non current, just finished twenty hours tail dragger
> training, and passed a BFR. From the days of a tow headed kid in 1945
> standing in a barn yard watching those war birds we love to go see today
> at air show, go over for real. Wondering what it would be like to be
> able to fly an airplane. Today I know what it's like to be able to
> build and fly an airplane. Its a great country we live in. I don't
> know the rate of climb, I forgot to check. My ground persons radio went
> on the fritz shortly after take off and he was going to question me for
> the important stuff. The ASI didn't work, and it took me three tries to
> land, but the training I had in the Champ paid off. I could feel it.
>
> Thanks to those of you who have shared in this with your thoughts and
> ideas that I have use over the years. To the ones who are still on the
> list, now, in the past, and to those who have gone on.
>
> We leave tomorrow for upstate NY to go to one of our Granddaughter's
> graduation from high school. I couldn't wait a week now could I?.
> Later Norm. San Angelo Tx.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: O-235 Battery |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Lina" <airlina@usadatanet.net>
Hi Cliff, Thanks for the quick and thorough response. From the sound of it ,
I am losing lots of performance because of my prop. Specifically, my prop is
a Sensenich W74EK-2-58 which is their middle of the road prop in terms of
pitch. The manufacturer cut the prop down to 72 inches and the pitch is 58
(the other props they recommend for the kitfox are pitched to 56 and 60
respectively). Other guys with my prop - engine installation are getting the
same RPM as I am. My airplane is heavy because of my engine installation
(better than 250 lbs ) and I come in at 967 lb empty weight. Solo at about
1250 lb TO weight, I get airborne in 400 feet and climb at 1000-1100 FPM at
best rate of climb speed of 70 MPH. At gross weight my TO roll doubles to
700-800 feet and climb rate is an anemic 600-700 FPM. I think I need a new
prop One guy I know who used to run a 3 bladed warp drive on his IO-240
powered Kitfox (until they were recalled for cracking) claimed TO and climb
pefr similar to what you are getting. Thanks Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Subject: Props; was: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
> Bruce,
> Depends upon conditions, but normally 2400-2475 rpm static up here in
> Colorado. Never tried it at sea level.
>
> I spoke with Aymar Demuth a few weeks ago and if I remember correctly I
> think he said that changing the pitch on this prop by 2 inches would
change
> the rpms by 100. He also said that no two of their props will perform
> exactly alike, even if the specs are the same. I certainly would believe
> this. Consider that the theoretical speed of a plane with a 47" pitch prop
> turning 2600 rpm is 115.7 mph, with NO slippage and no airframe drag! Our
> plane easily outperforms that, so it must really have considerably more
than
> 47" of pitch. Also note that increasing the pitch 2" increases the
> theoretical max speed by 5 mph. Of course we know that as speed increases,
> so does drag, so I really don't have a clue how to figure out the right
> pitch for a prop.
>
> Our plane cruises 130 mph at 2600 rpm (up high) and that's with lots of
> throttle left. It can still easily be overspeeded to about 2900 rpm. If I
> had my druthers, I would have a cruise prop with more pitch than I have,
> maybe even 70" diameter instead of 72 to allow even more pitch for speed.
> Then I would have a 76" climb prop with very fine pitch for bush work. The
> guy at Aymar Demuth doesn't like longer props for better climb, he says
that
> it just adds drag and doesn't increase climb. Well it may not increase
climb
> RATE, but I believe it would increase climb ANGLE and the extra drag would
> allow steeper approaches. That is probably one of the main benefits of the
> Borer prop that the supercub flyers use.
>
> Bruce, if you do most of your short field work down low, our prop would
> perform admirably just the way it is. Solo, lightly loaded, I can probably
> get off the ground in 150-175' at sea level on anything other than a hot
> summer afternoon. Climb would be about 1300-1400 fpm, BUT, for obstacle
> clearance the climb angle at 55 mph is shockingly steep. I often operate
out
> of a small 600' strip up here at 5400'. Even with two big guys on board I
> have no problem getting in or out with room to spare (on a cool spring
day).
>
> Bruce, what is the diameter and pitch of your prop? How fast can you go
and
> what is your climb rate? What's your planes empty weight?
> Best Regards,
> Cliff
>
> >
> > Cliff, What is your static RPM at full throttle with your engine and
prop
> > combo. I have a Continental IO-240 engine with a Sensenich wood prop and
> can
> > only achieve 2200 RPM static at full throttle. I know I could achieve
> better
> > TO and climb perf with a better prop , engine combo, but at a 1000 bucks
a
> > pop (or prop) as the case may be it gets a bit expensive to do the R &
D.
> > Thanks Bruce
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
> > <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > Good question, perhaps Vic Jacko, the builder of the plane will chime
in
> > > here.
> > > Cliff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey Cliff,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I meant to ask about your starter: Do you use a permanent magnet
(like
> > > skytec) or wound field starter (like BC)?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am installing one + and one - cable from the battery. Each cable
> will
> > > have slightly less resistance than AWG 2 copper. Is that roughly
> > equivalent
> > > to your setup?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Grant
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: "Clifford Begnaud" shoeless@barefootpilot.com
> > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery
> > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:07:16 -0600
> > > >
> > > > -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
> > > shoeless@barefootpilot.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Grant,
> > > > The prop is two blade, wood.
> > > > I live in Erie, CO on an airpark (48V) elevation 5100'.
> > > > I also use 95 mph IAS as maneuvering speed. If the air gets rough, I
> > slow
> > > it
> > > > down, simple as that. Above 8000' or so, it will indicate 115-120
mph
> > for
> > > a
> > > > TAS of 130. So the slow down is not as bad as you would think. This
> > > doesn't
> > > > mean you have to slow down this much just for some light chop. I
don't
> > > slow
> > > > down for that at all.
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > > Cliff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again Cliff! I am located in San Luis Obispo, CA but want
my
> > > plane
> > > > to be able to operate out of high elevation strips. Do you live in
> > Idaho?
> > > I
> > > > don't remember off hand what the pitch onmy prop is - I will have to
> > wait
> > > to
> > > > see what kind of performance I get out of it.Is yours a wood prop?
Two
> > or
> > > > three blade? I'm guessing it is 2 bladed wood but want to make sure.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Skystar says the maneuvering speed of the model 5 is ~95 mph. How
do
> > you
> > > > deal with that knowing you cruise at 130 mph?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Talk to you later,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Grant
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: "Clifford Begnaud" shoeless@barefootpilot.com
> > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery
> > > > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:38:14 -0600
> > > >
> > > > -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
> > > > shoeless@barefootpilot.com
> > > >
> > > > Grant,
> > > > Our plane has about 300 hours TT and the engine was overhauled
> before
> > > > being
> > > > installed, so it has the same hours.
> > > > I think that the Ellison does contribute to the low fuel burn as
> well
> > as
> > > > the
> > > > LSE ignition. But I have never compared it to a carb. Keep in mind
> > that
> > > I
> > > > only get 5.25 gph fuel burn above 7500' when cruising at 2600 rpm.
> It
> > > > burns
> > > > more down low.
> > > >
> > > > Our prop is an Aymar Demuth, 72X47. I like it very much, but
unless
> > you
> > > > operate out of short, high elevation airstrips, a little more
pitch
> > > would
> > > > be
> > > > appropriate. They don't have a web site that I know of, but their
> > phone
> > > > number is 410-461-4329.
> > > > One nice thing that they do is on the leading edge protection, it
is
> > > made
> > > > of
> > > > ground steel mixed into some kind of epoxy or plastic and applied
to
> > the
> > > > leading edge. It's very tough, but not indestructible. I'm in the
> > middle
> > > > of
> > > > a repair right now.
> > > > Be sure to put a big fat cable on that battery!
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > > Cliff
> > > > PS, where are you located?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank You for the awesome post, Cliff! You answered my
questionmore!
> I
> > > > am using the airfoiled tail sectionsone LSE ignition until I burn
> out
> > > both
> > > > mags when I will probably switch to two LSEs. I haven't checked
out
> > > > theEllison TB link yet but will be soon. I havechecked out the
> > > > batterylinkand will be looking into using the 12 lb, 14 A-H
battery.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have been wondering about the performance figures and am
> pleasantly
> > > > surprised by yours. How many hours does your plane have? Does the
TB
> > > > increase fuel efficiency over the carburetor? Although I have
> already
> > > > purchased a wood Sensenich prop, I am curious about yours. Could
you
> > > > please
> > > > send me any info you might have on it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Grant,
> > > > This is the battery in our kitfox with Lycoming 0-235.
> > > > (http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=ODY-PC680)
> > > > This battery is nothing short of amazing. It is mounted in the
tail
> > and
> > > > will crank the engine tirelessly, not that it really needs to. ;-)
> > > > With a light electrical load you may indeed be able to get by with
a
> > > > smaller
> > > > battery. Batteries Plus has some AGM batteries that are about 9-10
> lbs
> > > > and
> > > > have 12 ah capacity. The key to good cranking power is to have the
> > > > proper
> > > > sized cable run back there to the battery. If you do, then a 12 ah
> > > > battery
> > > > would probably work. Also, if you are using the poly fiber process
> and
> > > > especially if you have the airfoiled tail surfaces, then the
lighter
> > > > battery
> > > > should work fine for the CG. Worst case would be that you could
bolt
> > > > some
> > > > lead to the towing mount hole near the aft end of the plane when
> > flying
> > > > solo. For any other loads, just pull it off.
> > > >
> > > > Also, if you want to assure that your engine will start, no matter
> > what,
> > > > be
> > > > sure to use a primer and install one Lightspeed Engineering
> electronic
> > > > ignition, http://www.lightspeedengineering.com, along with one
> magneto
> > .
> > > > Better yet, use an Ellison throttle body carb with the LSE,
> > > > http://www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/. On our kitfox, we have two
> LSE
> > > > ignitions (no mags, hurray) and an Ellison carb. We can park the
> plane
> > > > out
> > > > on a cold night (20 deg F) and the next morning we can "hand prop"
> it
> > > > with
> > > > ONE flip of the prop. And that is with NO preheating!! Simply
> amazing!
> > > > This combination gives us a cruise speed of 130 mph at 2600 rpm,
> > burning
> > > > 5.25 gph. (we could go faster with a cruise prop)
> > > > Please note that if you use two LSE ignitions, you should install
a
> > > > small
> > > > 5
> > > > ah AGM battery as a backup, we did and this combination works
great.
> > > > BTW, the prop is an Aymar Demuth.
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > > Cliff
> > > > ps, Let me know if you want more info on this setup
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello listers,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am building a series 5 TD w/O-235 and would like to put in the
> > > > lightest
> > > > batterypossible in the tail without having to add balast. My
> > electrical
> > > > requirements will not be very significant so I can get by
> > > > electricallywith
> > > > a
> > > > light battery (11 AH min). I've been told that I cannot figure the
> > > > Weight
> > > > Balance before I cover so I don't know how to deal with this
issue.
> > Can
> > > > someone help here?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone here with the same configuration tell me how small your
> > > > battery
> > > > is?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Grant
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-upsnow 3 months
> FREE!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: O-235 Battery |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Lina" <airlina@usadatanet.net>
Thanks Vic, thats the RPM I need, I think I need a new prop.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
>
> Bruce, let me take a shot at this one then we will hear from Cliff to see
> what he is getting.
>
> At density altitude 4,000 feet I was getting a static of 2450 rpm. Cliff
> may get a little less because he is at a higher altitude
>
> Vic
>
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Lina" <airlina@usadatanet.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Lina" <airlina@usadatanet.net>
> >
> > Cliff, What is your static RPM at full throttle with your engine and
prop
> > combo. I have a Continental IO-240 engine with a Sensenich wood prop and
> can
> > only achieve 2200 RPM static at full throttle. I know I could achieve
> better
> > TO and climb perf with a better prop , engine combo, but at a 1000 bucks
a
> > pop (or prop) as the case may be it gets a bit expensive to do the R &
D.
> > Thanks Bruce
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
> > <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > Good question, perhaps Vic Jacko, the builder of the plane will chime
in
> > > here.
> > > Cliff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey Cliff,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I meant to ask about your starter: Do you use a permanent magnet
(like
> > > skytec) or wound field starter (like BC)?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am installing one + and one - cable from the battery. Each cable
> will
> > > have slightly less resistance than AWG 2 copper. Is that roughly
> > equivalent
> > > to your setup?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Grant
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: "Clifford Begnaud" shoeless@barefootpilot.com
> > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery
> > > > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:07:16 -0600
> > > >
> > > > -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
> > > shoeless@barefootpilot.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Grant,
> > > > The prop is two blade, wood.
> > > > I live in Erie, CO on an airpark (48V) elevation 5100'.
> > > > I also use 95 mph IAS as maneuvering speed. If the air gets rough, I
> > slow
> > > it
> > > > down, simple as that. Above 8000' or so, it will indicate 115-120
mph
> > for
> > > a
> > > > TAS of 130. So the slow down is not as bad as you would think. This
> > > doesn't
> > > > mean you have to slow down this much just for some light chop. I
don't
> > > slow
> > > > down for that at all.
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > > Cliff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again Cliff! I am located in San Luis Obispo, CA but want
my
> > > plane
> > > > to be able to operate out of high elevation strips. Do you live in
> > Idaho?
> > > I
> > > > don't remember off hand what the pitch onmy prop is - I will have to
> > wait
> > > to
> > > > see what kind of performance I get out of it.Is yours a wood prop?
Two
> > or
> > > > three blade? I'm guessing it is 2 bladed wood but want to make sure.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Skystar says the maneuvering speed of the model 5 is ~95 mph. How
do
> > you
> > > > deal with that knowing you cruise at 130 mph?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Talk to you later,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Grant
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: "Clifford Begnaud" shoeless@barefootpilot.com
> > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery
> > > > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:38:14 -0600
> > > >
> > > > -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
> > > > shoeless@barefootpilot.com
> > > >
> > > > Grant,
> > > > Our plane has about 300 hours TT and the engine was overhauled
> before
> > > > being
> > > > installed, so it has the same hours.
> > > > I think that the Ellison does contribute to the low fuel burn as
> well
> > as
> > > > the
> > > > LSE ignition. But I have never compared it to a carb. Keep in mind
> > that
> > > I
> > > > only get 5.25 gph fuel burn above 7500' when cruising at 2600 rpm.
> It
> > > > burns
> > > > more down low.
> > > >
> > > > Our prop is an Aymar Demuth, 72X47. I like it very much, but
unless
> > you
> > > > operate out of short, high elevation airstrips, a little more
pitch
> > > would
> > > > be
> > > > appropriate. They don't have a web site that I know of, but their
> > phone
> > > > number is 410-461-4329.
> > > > One nice thing that they do is on the leading edge protection, it
is
> > > made
> > > > of
> > > > ground steel mixed into some kind of epoxy or plastic and applied
to
> > the
> > > > leading edge. It's very tough, but not indestructible. I'm in the
> > middle
> > > > of
> > > > a repair right now.
> > > > Be sure to put a big fat cable on that battery!
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > > Cliff
> > > > PS, where are you located?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank You for the awesome post, Cliff! You answered my
questionmore!
> I
> > > > am using the airfoiled tail sectionsone LSE ignition until I burn
> out
> > > both
> > > > mags when I will probably switch to two LSEs. I haven't checked
out
> > > > theEllison TB link yet but will be soon. I havechecked out the
> > > > batterylinkand will be looking into using the 12 lb, 14 A-H
battery.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have been wondering about the performance figures and am
> pleasantly
> > > > surprised by yours. How many hours does your plane have? Does the
TB
> > > > increase fuel efficiency over the carburetor? Although I have
> already
> > > > purchased a wood Sensenich prop, I am curious about yours. Could
you
> > > > please
> > > > send me any info you might have on it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Grant,
> > > > This is the battery in our kitfox with Lycoming 0-235.
> > > > (http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=ODY-PC680)
> > > > This battery is nothing short of amazing. It is mounted in the
tail
> > and
> > > > will crank the engine tirelessly, not that it really needs to. ;-)
> > > > With a light electrical load you may indeed be able to get by with
a
> > > > smaller
> > > > battery. Batteries Plus has some AGM batteries that are about 9-10
> lbs
> > > > and
> > > > have 12 ah capacity. The key to good cranking power is to have the
> > > > proper
> > > > sized cable run back there to the battery. If you do, then a 12 ah
> > > > battery
> > > > would probably work. Also, if you are using the poly fiber process
> and
> > > > especially if you have the airfoiled tail surfaces, then the
lighter
> > > > battery
> > > > should work fine for the CG. Worst case would be that you could
bolt
> > > > some
> > > > lead to the towing mount hole near the aft end of the plane when
> > flying
> > > > solo. For any other loads, just pull it off.
> > > >
> > > > Also, if you want to assure that your engine will start, no matter
> > what,
> > > > be
> > > > sure to use a primer and install one Lightspeed Engineering
> electronic
> > > > ignition, http://www.lightspeedengineering.com, along with one
> magneto
> > .
> > > > Better yet, use an Ellison throttle body carb with the LSE,
> > > > http://www.ellison-fluid-systems.com/. On our kitfox, we have two
> LSE
> > > > ignitions (no mags, hurray) and an Ellison carb. We can park the
> plane
> > > > out
> > > > on a cold night (20 deg F) and the next morning we can "hand prop"
> it
> > > > with
> > > > ONE flip of the prop. And that is with NO preheating!! Simply
> amazing!
> > > > This combination gives us a cruise speed of 130 mph at 2600 rpm,
> > burning
> > > > 5.25 gph. (we could go faster with a cruise prop)
> > > > Please note that if you use two LSE ignitions, you should install
a
> > > > small
> > > > 5
> > > > ah AGM battery as a backup, we did and this combination works
great.
> > > > BTW, the prop is an Aymar Demuth.
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > > Cliff
> > > > ps, Let me know if you want more info on this setup
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello listers,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am building a series 5 TD w/O-235 and would like to put in the
> > > > lightest
> > > > batterypossible in the tail without having to add balast. My
> > electrical
> > > > requirements will not be very significant so I can get by
> > > > electricallywith
> > > > a
> > > > light battery (11 AH min). I've been told that I cannot figure the
> > > > Weight
> > > > Balance before I cover so I don't know how to deal with this
issue.
> > Can
> > > > someone help here?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone here with the same configuration tell me how small your
> > > > battery
> > > > is?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Grant
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-upsnow 3 months
> FREE!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
Congradgulations Norm and Great Story!
Best Regards,
Marc Arseneault
ly 2nd 96 At that time I didn't even have my license. I got it a year and a half
later after I retired. I have lost my medical twice, gone non current, just
finished twenty hours tail dragger training, and passed a BFR. From the days
of a tow headed kid in 1945 standing in a barn yard watching those war birds
we love to go see today at air show, go over for real. Wondering what it would
be like to be able to fly an airplane. Today I know what it's like to be
able to build and fly an airplane. Its a great country we live in. I don't
know the rate of climb, I forgot to check. My ground persons radio went on the
fritz shortly after take off and he was going to question me for the important
stuff. The ASI didn't work, and it took me three tries to land, but the training
I had in the Champ paid off. I could feel it. Thanks to those of you
who have shared in this with your thoughts and ideas that I have use over
Message 5
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|
| Subject: | Re: O-235 Battery |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Bruce,
Definitely sounds like you have a cruise prop. If you get another, consider
the Aymar Demuth, they are very nice and well balanced with nice leading
edge protection. I guess the big question now is what pitch to get. At 47"
ours is probably the best compromise that we could ask for. I suspect that
with the electronic ignitions and Ellison carb, that our engines power
output is very close to yours. Talk with AD, they can probably help you pick
the ideal prop for your engine. Keep in mind that they have a 6 month
backlog. 410-461-4329
Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.
Cliff
do not archive
>
> Hi Cliff, Thanks for the quick and thorough response. From the sound of it
,
> I am losing lots of performance because of my prop. Specifically, my prop
is
> a Sensenich W74EK-2-58 which is their middle of the road prop in terms of
> pitch. The manufacturer cut the prop down to 72 inches and the pitch is 58
> (the other props they recommend for the kitfox are pitched to 56 and 60
> respectively). Other guys with my prop - engine installation are getting
the
> same RPM as I am. My airplane is heavy because of my engine installation
> (better than 250 lbs ) and I come in at 967 lb empty weight. Solo at about
> 1250 lb TO weight, I get airborne in 400 feet and climb at 1000-1100 FPM
at
> best rate of climb speed of 70 MPH. At gross weight my TO roll doubles to
> 700-800 feet and climb rate is an anemic 600-700 FPM. I think I need a new
> prop One guy I know who used to run a 3 bladed warp drive on his IO-240
> powered Kitfox (until they were recalled for cracking) claimed TO and
climb
> pefr similar to what you are getting. Thanks Bruce
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Props; was: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Another Fox Flies pts rule name |
description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Norm, congratulations on a job well done, Last time I visited with you the
airplane was in major assemblies and now it is "one". Fly on brethren and
enjoy!
Vic
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norm Beauchamp" <nebchmp@wcc.net>
description ---- ---------------------- ------------------------------------
-------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Norm Beauchamp <nebchmp@wcc.net>
>
> I passed the inspection today and flew N66180 (" Nothin Fancy") today .
> Its been a long haul, I'm slow, but Don't Ever Give Up!!!. The kit
> was delivered July 2nd 96 At that time I didn't even have my license.
> I got it a year and a half later after I retired. I have lost my medical
> twice, gone non current, just finished twenty hours tail dragger
> training, and passed a BFR. From the days of a tow headed kid in 1945
> standing in a barn yard watching those war birds we love to go see today
> at air show, go over for real. Wondering what it would be like to be
> able to fly an airplane. Today I know what it's like to be able to
> build and fly an airplane. Its a great country we live in. I don't
> know the rate of climb, I forgot to check. My ground persons radio went
> on the fritz shortly after take off and he was going to question me for
> the important stuff. The ASI didn't work, and it took me three tries to
> land, but the training I had in the Champ paid off. I could feel it.
>
> Thanks to those of you who have shared in this with your thoughts and
> ideas that I have use over the years. To the ones who are still on the
> list, now, in the past, and to those who have gone on.
>
> We leave tomorrow for upstate NY to go to one of our Granddaughter's
> graduation from high school. I couldn't wait a week now could I?.
> Later Norm. San Angelo Tx.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: O-235 Battery |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke <n981ms@yahoo.com>
Bruce/Cliff
I have similar static RPM and performance with Bruce. I have an IO240 and same
prop except for Bruce's being cut down. Did you have Sensenich cut it for you?
I just ordered the prop without any special requests.
Maxwell Duke
S6/IO240/Phase II Flight Testing
---------------------------------
Message 8
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|
| Subject: | Re: Another Fox Flies pts rule name |
description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Good News Norm. Have fun!
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norm Beauchamp" <nebchmp@wcc.net>
description ---- ---------------------- ------------------------------------
-------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Norm Beauchamp <nebchmp@wcc.net>
>
> I passed the inspection today and flew N66180 (" Nothin Fancy") today .
> Its been a long haul, I'm slow, but Don't Ever Give Up!!!. The kit
> was delivered July 2nd 96 At that time I didn't even have my license.
> I got it a year and a half later after I retired. I have lost my medical
> twice, gone non current, just finished twenty hours tail dragger
> training, and passed a BFR. From the days of a tow headed kid in 1945
> standing in a barn yard watching those war birds we love to go see today
> at air show, go over for real. Wondering what it would be like to be
> able to fly an airplane. Today I know what it's like to be able to
> build and fly an airplane. Its a great country we live in. I don't
> know the rate of climb, I forgot to check. My ground persons radio went
> on the fritz shortly after take off and he was going to question me for
> the important stuff. The ASI didn't work, and it took me three tries to
> land, but the training I had in the Champ paid off. I could feel it.
>
> Thanks to those of you who have shared in this with your thoughts and
> ideas that I have use over the years. To the ones who are still on the
> list, now, in the past, and to those who have gone on.
>
> We leave tomorrow for upstate NY to go to one of our Granddaughter's
> graduation from high school. I couldn't wait a week now could I?.
> Later Norm. San Angelo Tx.
>
>
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Re: Another Fox Flies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Norm Beauchamp wrote:
> Wondering what it would be like to be able to fly an airplane.
Now you know, Norm! Congrats and many happy years of flying to come! Give our
love to your grand-daughter for her graduation. If one thing is greater than a
Kitfox, it must surely be to have children and grand-children.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Another Fox Flies pts rule name |
description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple <fredshiple@sbcglobal.net>
Way to go Norm. Congratulations. Here's to many pleasant flights!
Fred
I passed the inspection today and flew N66180
do not archive
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
I have recently purchased a "98% complete" KF Mod 2 with Rotax 582. Among the
boxes of uninstalled parts was a fuel primer kit. Unfortunately, there were no
directions and Skystar has been less than cooperative. I have T'ed the primer
intake line just downstream of mail fuel shut-off valve. Primer output then goes
thru firewall, splits, one line going to each of 2 Bing carbs. However, primer
kit parts are left over and Kitfox engine manual shows a line from top of
gascolator going thru firewall into cabin. Is this part of primer system too?
How is it supposed to connect?
Question 2: Prior owner installed plastic header tank aft of cabin. Heehas the
hader tank vent opening plugged. Manuals make reference to a vent line from header
tank to right wing tank (both wing tanks are vented via fuel caps) but do
not show how this connection is supposed to be made. Got any ideas?
Thanks,
Marco Menezes
---------------------------------
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Checked all grounds and re-routed most of the wiring. Ran the engine with no change.
After flying, I taxied over to the hanger and shut off both mags leaving the Master
switch on.
The oil temp gauge moved immediately from 260 to 180 degrees and the coolant temp
dropped from
220 to 140.
Also, when flying, I can point the nose down, pull the throttle to idle and watch
the oil temp/
water temp gauges drop the same as shutting down the engine. I'm beginning to suspect
the voltage
regulator (not regulating) or the gauge itself (is there some kind of voltage limiter
built in)..
I hate electricity...
Steve "still troubleshooting" Magdic
-----Original Message-----
From: flier [mailto:FLIER@sbcglobal.net]
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Steve,
Check your ground from the engine to battery &
frame. Make sure it's tight and oxidation free.
I had a problem before with an oil pressure sensor I
thought was bad doing the same thing. It ended up
being due to a very slight resistance in my ground
that affected the sensor.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic"
<steve.magdic@1psg.com>
>
>Fellow KitFox owners, perhaps the vast knowledge of
this group could help steer me in the proper direction
>to trouble shoot this problem.
>I own a model 3 with a 912 powerplant. I have a quad
gauge installed for engine monitoring that
>has the EGT, CHT, Oil Temp and Oil Pressure. The
problem I am experiencing is this, as I apply
>throttle from 3/4 to WOT, the needles on the oil
pressure, oil temperature and CHT all rotate in
>a CCW direction imitating throttle movement. As I
reduce throttle, these same needles will rotate
>in a clockwise direction.
>I know my oil and CHT temps can not rise and cool as
rapidly as the gauges read. I assume
>there is some sort of electrical or magnetic
interference.
>I have traced the wire harness and have found
nothing obvious that could cause this anomaly.
>The power to this gauge comes from a power panel
which is fed from the 12 volts DC put out by the
>engine.
>I don't want to spend the $360 for a new quad gauge
and senders if I don't have to.
>Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>Thanks,
>Steve Magdic
>Sussex WI
>
>
>_-
======================================================
==================
Contributions
any other
Forums.
>_-
======================================================
==================
>_-
======================================================
==================
http://www.matronics.com/subscription
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
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list
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>_-
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>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Steve, I think you just hit it and caused my fading brain to remember.
I had a similar problem as you and it turned out to be a voltage regulator
inside the gauge which if I remember is supposed to regulate the voltage at
about 5 volts.
My problem is the gauge would not read correct at all and they repaired it
"free".
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
>
> Checked all grounds and re-routed most of the wiring. Ran the engine with
no change.
> After flying, I taxied over to the hanger and shut off both mags leaving
the Master switch on.
> The oil temp gauge moved immediately from 260 to 180 degrees and the
coolant temp dropped from
> 220 to 140.
> Also, when flying, I can point the nose down, pull the throttle to idle
and watch the oil temp/
> water temp gauges drop the same as shutting down the engine. I'm beginning
to suspect the voltage
> regulator (not regulating) or the gauge itself (is there some kind of
voltage limiter built in)..
> I hate electricity...
> Steve "still troubleshooting" Magdic
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flier [mailto:FLIER@sbcglobal.net]
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground?
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Steve,
>
> Check your ground from the engine to battery &
> frame. Make sure it's tight and oxidation free.
>
> I had a problem before with an oil pressure sensor I
> thought was bad doing the same thing. It ended up
> being due to a very slight resistance in my ground
> that affected the sensor.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
>
>
> --- Original Message ---
> From: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic"
> <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
> >
> >Fellow KitFox owners, perhaps the vast knowledge of
> this group could help steer me in the proper direction
> >to trouble shoot this problem.
> >I own a model 3 with a 912 powerplant. I have a quad
> gauge installed for engine monitoring that
> >has the EGT, CHT, Oil Temp and Oil Pressure. The
> problem I am experiencing is this, as I apply
> >throttle from 3/4 to WOT, the needles on the oil
> pressure, oil temperature and CHT all rotate in
> >a CCW direction imitating throttle movement. As I
> reduce throttle, these same needles will rotate
> >in a clockwise direction.
> >I know my oil and CHT temps can not rise and cool as
> rapidly as the gauges read. I assume
> >there is some sort of electrical or magnetic
> interference.
> >I have traced the wire harness and have found
> nothing obvious that could cause this anomaly.
> >The power to this gauge comes from a power panel
> which is fed from the 12 volts DC put out by the
> >engine.
> >I don't want to spend the $360 for a new quad gauge
> and senders if I don't have to.
> >Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
> >Thanks,
> >Steve Magdic
> >Sussex WI
> >
> >
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> list
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Thanks Vic, I'll go that direction and let you know the results.
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: Vic Jacko [mailto:vicwj@earthlink.net]
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground?
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Steve, I think you just hit it and caused my fading brain to remember.
I had a similar problem as you and it turned out to be a voltage regulator
inside the gauge which if I remember is supposed to regulate the voltage at
about 5 volts.
My problem is the gauge would not read correct at all and they repaired it
"free".
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
>
> Checked all grounds and re-routed most of the wiring. Ran the engine with
no change.
> After flying, I taxied over to the hanger and shut off both mags leaving
the Master switch on.
> The oil temp gauge moved immediately from 260 to 180 degrees and the
coolant temp dropped from
> 220 to 140.
> Also, when flying, I can point the nose down, pull the throttle to idle
and watch the oil temp/
> water temp gauges drop the same as shutting down the engine. I'm beginning
to suspect the voltage
> regulator (not regulating) or the gauge itself (is there some kind of
voltage limiter built in)..
> I hate electricity...
> Steve "still troubleshooting" Magdic
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flier [mailto:FLIER@sbcglobal.net]
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground?
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Steve,
>
> Check your ground from the engine to battery &
> frame. Make sure it's tight and oxidation free.
>
> I had a problem before with an oil pressure sensor I
> thought was bad doing the same thing. It ended up
> being due to a very slight resistance in my ground
> that affected the sensor.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
>
>
> --- Original Message ---
> From: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic"
> <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
> >
> >Fellow KitFox owners, perhaps the vast knowledge of
> this group could help steer me in the proper direction
> >to trouble shoot this problem.
> >I own a model 3 with a 912 powerplant. I have a quad
> gauge installed for engine monitoring that
> >has the EGT, CHT, Oil Temp and Oil Pressure. The
> problem I am experiencing is this, as I apply
> >throttle from 3/4 to WOT, the needles on the oil
> pressure, oil temperature and CHT all rotate in
> >a CCW direction imitating throttle movement. As I
> reduce throttle, these same needles will rotate
> >in a clockwise direction.
> >I know my oil and CHT temps can not rise and cool as
> rapidly as the gauges read. I assume
> >there is some sort of electrical or magnetic
> interference.
> >I have traced the wire harness and have found
> nothing obvious that could cause this anomaly.
> >The power to this gauge comes from a power panel
> which is fed from the 12 volts DC put out by the
> >engine.
> >I don't want to spend the $360 for a new quad gauge
> and senders if I don't have to.
> >Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
> >Thanks,
> >Steve Magdic
> >Sussex WI
> >
> >
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> list
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Marco, I am not sure, but I don't remember Skystar ever offering a primer
for the 582. If that is the case, I don't think it is surprising that they
don't offer technical assistance in that area. As far as the header tank
vent is concerned, The early Kitfoxes didn't vent the header tank, in fact I
don't think the I or II had any options except the panel tank - with wing
tanks for transfilling the panel tank. In other words, they didn't come with
a header tank and I doubt it was an option at that time. If your right tank
doesn't have the vent provision - a barb fitting near the top of the inboard
end, above the sight gauge - then I suspect your tanks are of this vintage.
What you probably have are some upgrades that the previous builder decided
to implement
I am sure that someone with a I or II that has made the change can help you
in that area.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marco Menezes" <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
To:
<kitfox-list@matronics.com.pts.rule.name.description.----.------------------
----.------------------------------------------->
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
>
> I have recently purchased a "98% complete" KF Mod 2 with Rotax 582. Among
the boxes of uninstalled parts was a fuel primer kit. Unfortunately, there
were no directions and Skystar has been less than cooperative. I have T'ed
the primer intake line just downstream of mail fuel shut-off valve. Primer
output then goes thru firewall, splits, one line going to each of 2 Bing
carbs. However, primer kit parts are left over and Kitfox engine manual
shows a line from top of gascolator going thru firewall into cabin. Is this
part of primer system too? How is it supposed to connect?
>
> Question 2: Prior owner installed plastic header tank aft of cabin. Heehas
the hader tank vent opening plugged. Manuals make reference to a vent line
from header tank to right wing tank (both wing tanks are vented via fuel
caps) but do not show how this connection is supposed to be made. Got any
ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Marco Menezes
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Try WesTach 1-800-400-7024
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
>
> Checked all grounds and re-routed most of the wiring. Ran the engine with
no change.
> After flying, I taxied over to the hanger and shut off both mags leaving
the Master switch on.
> The oil temp gauge moved immediately from 260 to 180 degrees and the
coolant temp dropped from
> 220 to 140.
> Also, when flying, I can point the nose down, pull the throttle to idle
and watch the oil temp/
> water temp gauges drop the same as shutting down the engine. I'm beginning
to suspect the voltage
> regulator (not regulating) or the gauge itself (is there some kind of
voltage limiter built in)..
> I hate electricity...
> Steve "still troubleshooting" Magdic
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: flier [mailto:FLIER@sbcglobal.net]
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground?
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Steve,
>
> Check your ground from the engine to battery &
> frame. Make sure it's tight and oxidation free.
>
> I had a problem before with an oil pressure sensor I
> thought was bad doing the same thing. It ended up
> being due to a very slight resistance in my ground
> that affected the sensor.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
>
>
> --- Original Message ---
> From: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic"
> <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
> >
> >Fellow KitFox owners, perhaps the vast knowledge of
> this group could help steer me in the proper direction
> >to trouble shoot this problem.
> >I own a model 3 with a 912 powerplant. I have a quad
> gauge installed for engine monitoring that
> >has the EGT, CHT, Oil Temp and Oil Pressure. The
> problem I am experiencing is this, as I apply
> >throttle from 3/4 to WOT, the needles on the oil
> pressure, oil temperature and CHT all rotate in
> >a CCW direction imitating throttle movement. As I
> reduce throttle, these same needles will rotate
> >in a clockwise direction.
> >I know my oil and CHT temps can not rise and cool as
> rapidly as the gauges read. I assume
> >there is some sort of electrical or magnetic
> interference.
> >I have traced the wire harness and have found
> nothing obvious that could cause this anomaly.
> >The power to this gauge comes from a power panel
> which is fed from the 12 volts DC put out by the
> >engine.
> >I don't want to spend the $360 for a new quad gauge
> and senders if I don't have to.
> >Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
> >Thanks,
> >Steve Magdic
> >Sussex WI
> >
> >
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> list
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> >
> >
>
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" <aerocon@telusplanet.net>
Marco,
I can't comment on the header tank, but might shed some light regarding the
primer plumbing.
The fitting on top of the gascolator is often used as a supply line to the
primer pump. You have eliminated this by "Teeing" into the regular fuel
line. Both was are more than acceptable.
The reason the gascolator is used is simply there would be one less
connection in the fuel system. Also that is the lowest part of the fuel
system and there should always be a supply of gasoline for the primer pump.
regards--hope this helps
Bob Robertson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marco Menezes" <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
To:
<kitfox-list@matronics.com.pts.rule.name.description.----.------------------
----.------------------------------------------->
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
>
> I have recently purchased a "98% complete" KF Mod 2 with Rotax 582. Among
the boxes of uninstalled parts was a fuel primer kit. Unfortunately, there
were no directions and Skystar has been less than cooperative. I have T'ed
the primer intake line just downstream of mail fuel shut-off valve. Primer
output then goes thru firewall, splits, one line going to each of 2 Bing
carbs. However, primer kit parts are left over and Kitfox engine manual
shows a line from top of gascolator going thru firewall into cabin. Is this
part of primer system too? How is it supposed to connect?
>
> Question 2: Prior owner installed plastic header tank aft of cabin. Heehas
the hader tank vent opening plugged. Manuals make reference to a vent line
from header tank to right wing tank (both wing tanks are vented via fuel
caps) but do not show how this connection is supposed to be made. Got any
ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Marco Menezes
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Does your ammeter/voltmeter show the change? Your
voltage shouldn't be moving around that much if you
have a reasonable load (less than 17amps) and the
regulator is operating properly.
If you've got a small 12v battery handy and can
separate the hot wire for the gauges, throw it in the
seat, ground it, and use it to power the gauges and
see what happens.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground?
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic"
<steve.magdic@1psg.com>
>
>Checked all grounds and re-routed most of the
wiring. Ran the engine with no change.
>After flying, I taxied over to the hanger and shut
off both mags leaving the Master switch on.
>The oil temp gauge moved immediately from 260 to 180
degrees and the coolant temp dropped from
>220 to 140.
>Also, when flying, I can point the nose down, pull
the throttle to idle and watch the oil temp/
>water temp gauges drop the same as shutting down the
engine. I'm beginning to suspect the voltage
>regulator (not regulating) or the gauge itself (is
there some kind of voltage limiter built in)..
>I hate electricity...
>Steve "still troubleshooting" Magdic
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: flier [mailto:FLIER@sbcglobal.net]
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge, bad ground?
>
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier"
<FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Steve,
>
>Check your ground from the engine to battery &
>frame. Make sure it's tight and oxidation free.
>
>I had a problem before with an oil pressure sensor I
>thought was bad doing the same thing. It ended up
>being due to a very slight resistance in my ground
>that affected the sensor.
>
>Regards,
>
>Ted
>
>
>--- Original Message ---
>From: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 Quad Gauge
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic"
><steve.magdic@1psg.com>
>>
>>Fellow KitFox owners, perhaps the vast knowledge of
>this group could help steer me in the proper
direction
>>to trouble shoot this problem.
>>I own a model 3 with a 912 powerplant. I have a
quad
>gauge installed for engine monitoring that
>>has the EGT, CHT, Oil Temp and Oil Pressure. The
>problem I am experiencing is this, as I apply
>>throttle from 3/4 to WOT, the needles on the oil
>pressure, oil temperature and CHT all rotate in
>>a CCW direction imitating throttle movement. As I
>reduce throttle, these same needles will rotate
>>in a clockwise direction.
>>I know my oil and CHT temps can not rise and cool
as
>rapidly as the gauges read. I assume
>>there is some sort of electrical or magnetic
>interference.
>>I have traced the wire harness and have found
>nothing obvious that could cause this anomaly.
>>The power to this gauge comes from a power panel
>which is fed from the 12 volts DC put out by the
>>engine.
>>I don't want to spend the $360 for a new quad gauge
>and senders if I don't have to.
>>Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
>>Thanks,
>>Steve Magdic
>>Sussex WI
>>
>>
>>_-
>=====================================================
=
>==================
>Contributions
>any other
>Forums.
>>_-
>=====================================================
=
>==================
>>_-
>=====================================================
=
>==================
>http://www.matronics.com/subscription
>http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
>http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list
>http://www.matronics.com/archives
>http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>list
>http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>>_-
>=====================================================
=
>==================
>>
>>
>
>
>_-
======================================================
==================
Contributions
any other
Forums.
>_-
======================================================
==================
>_-
======================================================
==================
http://www.matronics.com/subscription
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list
http://www.matronics.com/archives
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
list
http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>_-
======================================================
==================
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Thanks Lowell. In reading the previous builder's log, it seems long ago he had
installed the panel tank (round, aluminum) and then removed it later on and upgraded
to the plastic header tank aft of cabin. The right wing tank has only a
brass barbed fitting for the 3/8" ID fuel line to header tank, nothing for a
vent line. There are no sight gauges, rather dial gauges (presumably float type?)
on each wing tank.
Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@inreach.com> wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell
Fitt"
Marco, I am not sure, but I don't remember Skystar ever offering a primer
for the 582. If that is the case, I don't think it is surprising that they
don't offer technical assistance in that area. As far as the header tank
vent is concerned, The early Kitfoxes didn't vent the header tank, in fact I
don't think the I or II had any options except the panel tank - with wing
tanks for transfilling the panel tank. In other words, they didn't come with
a header tank and I doubt it was an option at that time. If your right tank
doesn't have the vent provision - a barb fitting near the top of the inboard
end, above the sight gauge - then I suspect your tanks are of this vintage.
What you probably have are some upgrades that the previous builder decided
to implement
I am sure that someone with a I or II that has made the change can help you
in that area.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marco Menezes"
To:
----.------------------------------------------->
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes
>
> I have recently purchased a "98% complete" KF Mod 2 with Rotax 582. Among
the boxes of uninstalled parts was a fuel primer kit. Unfortunately, there
were no directions and Skystar has been less than cooperative. I have T'ed
the primer intake line just downstream of mail fuel shut-off valve. Primer
output then goes thru firewall, splits, one line going to each of 2 Bing
carbs. However, primer kit parts are left over and Kitfox engine manual
shows a line from top of gascolator going thru firewall into cabin. Is this
part of primer system too? How is it supposed to connect?
>
> Question 2: Prior owner installed plastic header tank aft of cabin. Heehas
the hader tank vent opening plugged. Manuals make reference to a vent line
from header tank to right wing tank (both wing tanks are vented via fuel
caps) but do not show how this connection is supposed to be made. Got any
ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Marco Menezes
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Thanks Bob. That helps alot. I'll just plug the gascolator fitting and go from
there.
do not archive.
Bob Robertson <aerocon@telusplanet.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson"
Marco,
I can't comment on the header tank, but might shed some light regarding the
primer plumbing.
The fitting on top of the gascolator is often used as a supply line to the
primer pump. You have eliminated this by "Teeing" into the regular fuel
line. Both was are more than acceptable.
The reason the gascolator is used is simply there would be one less
connection in the fuel system. Also that is the lowest part of the fuel
system and there should always be a supply of gasoline for the primer pump.
regards--hope this helps
Bob Robertson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marco Menezes"
To:
----.------------------------------------------->
Subject: Kitfox-List: KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Marco Menezes
>
> I have recently purchased a "98% complete" KF Mod 2 with Rotax 582. Among
the boxes of uninstalled parts was a fuel primer kit. Unfortunately, there
were no directions and Skystar has been less than cooperative. I have T'ed
the primer intake line just downstream of mail fuel shut-off valve. Primer
output then goes thru firewall, splits, one line going to each of 2 Bing
carbs. However, primer kit parts are left over and Kitfox engine manual
shows a line from top of gascolator going thru firewall into cabin. Is this
part of primer system too? How is it supposed to connect?
>
> Question 2: Prior owner installed plastic header tank aft of cabin. Heehas
the hader tank vent opening plugged. Manuals make reference to a vent line
from header tank to right wing tank (both wing tanks are vented via fuel
caps) but do not show how this connection is supposed to be made. Got any
ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Marco Menezes
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: KF Mod 2, Rotax 582, Primer & Header vent |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
Marco,
See below
> I have recently purchased a "98% complete" KF Mod 2 with Rotax 582. Among
> the boxes of uninstalled parts was a fuel primer kit. Unfortunately, there
> were no directions and Skystar has been less than cooperative. I have T'ed the
> primer intake line just downstream of mail fuel shut-off valve. Primer output
> then goes thru firewall, splits, one line going to each of 2 Bing carbs.
> However, primer kit parts are left over and Kitfox engine manual shows a line
> from top of gascolator going thru firewall into cabin. Is this part of primer
> system too? How is it supposed to connect?
>
Sounds like you have what you need for a primer circuit. The primer just
picks up fuel and pumps it into the carb primer inputs. I don't use a gascolator
but can't imagine what it might have to do with the primer circuit.
> Question 2: Prior owner installed plastic header tank aft of cabin. Heehas
> the hader tank vent opening plugged. Manuals make reference to a vent line
> from header tank to right wing tank (both wing tanks are vented via fuel caps)
> but do not show how this connection is supposed to be made. Got any ideas?
If the right tank has a fitting (or place for a fitting) near the top inboard
center of the wing tank, that is were the vent should attach. If you don't
have a fitting on the tank, you "could" simply put a valve in the vent line of
the header and use it as a pre-flight to open/drain a small amount of fuel to
insure the header is full. Once full, close the valve. The header will
"vent" through the wing tank supply lines. I would consider replacing both supply
lines with 3/8" polyurethane. You can see the fuel through the lines and
watch the transfer of air bubbles from the header.
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: O-235 Battery |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Lina" <airlina@usadatanet.net>
Maxwell, My prop came from Sensenich at the 72" length. Even though the prop
designation is 74 '' , it came in a 72 inch length. I think we could do a
whole lot better in the TO and climb department with the 2450 RPM that Cliff
gets with his O-235/ prop combo. I do not think that those of us with the
IO-240/ Sensenich prop combo are utilizing our engines power to its full
advantage. Next question is , who is going to spend the 1000 bucks to test
my theory? Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: "W Duke" <n981ms@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Props; was: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke <n981ms@yahoo.com>
>
> Bruce/Cliff
> I have similar static RPM and performance with Bruce. I have an IO240
and same prop except for Bruce's being cut down. Did you have Sensenich cut
it for you? I just ordered the prop without any special requests.
>
>
> Maxwell Duke
> S6/IO240/Phase II Flight Testing
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: O-235 Battery |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Well, if one of you guys with the I0-240 would fly here, I would be happy to
let you try my prop. Assuming these engines have the same bolt pattern.
Who's the closest to Erie, Colorado (48V)?
Haven't heard from Jeff Hays during this thread, he and I are supposed to
have a duel. If he wasn't such a coward and would get his rear end over here
we could take care of both issues at the same time. How about it Jeff?
Cliff
>
> Maxwell, My prop came from Sensenich at the 72" length. Even though the
prop
> designation is 74 '' , it came in a 72 inch length. I think we could do a
> whole lot better in the TO and climb department with the 2450 RPM that
Cliff
> gets with his O-235/ prop combo. I do not think that those of us with the
> IO-240/ Sensenich prop combo are utilizing our engines power to its full
> advantage. Next question is , who is going to spend the 1000 bucks to test
> my theory? Bruce
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "W Duke" <n981ms@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Props; was: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke <n981ms@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Bruce/Cliff
> > I have similar static RPM and performance with Bruce. I have an IO240
> and same prop except for Bruce's being cut down. Did you have Sensenich
cut
> it for you? I just ordered the prop without any special requests.
> >
> >
> > Maxwell Duke
> > S6/IO240/Phase II Flight Testing
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
Message 24
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeff Hays" <jeff.hays@aselia.com>
I agree with Bruce about the prop. With a light load on the plane it goes up
like a missile, but you put some weight in it, with the engine loaded down
by
the prop it can be a bit doggy. But knowing Bruce, I'd say mostly his
cheapness
and poor pilot skills are what are really hindering his getting max
performance
out of his plane. :)
With regard to you Cliff, I'm still tring to calculate how many billiard
balls
I can put in my cluster bomb (er. cargo pod) before my next flight over 48V
airport, that'll solve the performance disparity issue once and for all :)
The real truth is, my wife has had me so busy with home improvement work,
that I haven't even flown in a month ... Let alone time to stir up list
trouble.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clifford
Begnaud
Subject: Re: Props; was: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Well, if one of you guys with the I0-240 would fly here, I would be happy to
let you try my prop. Assuming these engines have the same bolt pattern.
Who's the closest to Erie, Colorado (48V)?
Haven't heard from Jeff Hays during this thread, he and I are supposed to
have a duel. If he wasn't such a coward and would get his rear end over here
we could take care of both issues at the same time. How about it Jeff?
Cliff
>
> Maxwell, My prop came from Sensenich at the 72" length. Even though the
prop
> designation is 74 '' , it came in a 72 inch length. I think we could do a
> whole lot better in the TO and climb department with the 2450 RPM that
Cliff
> gets with his O-235/ prop combo. I do not think that those of us with the
> IO-240/ Sensenich prop combo are utilizing our engines power to its full
> advantage. Next question is , who is going to spend the 1000 bucks to test
> my theory? Bruce
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "W Duke" <n981ms@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Props; was: Kitfox-List: O-235 Battery
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke <n981ms@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Bruce/Cliff
> > I have similar static RPM and performance with Bruce. I have an IO240
> and same prop except for Bruce's being cut down. Did you have Sensenich
cut
> it for you? I just ordered the prop without any special requests.
> >
> >
> > Maxwell Duke
> > S6/IO240/Phase II Flight Testing
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Carb Balance 912S |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Daniel Aller" <daller1@zoominternet.net>
Bill Willyard,
Thank you very much for input.
What do you mean,using a feeler gauge at the carb throttle stop at the [full
throttle position]?
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: <Wwillyard@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Carb Balance 912S
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Wwillyard@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 6/20/2004 10:15:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> daller1@zoominternet.net writes:
>
> I have a Classic IV with the dual friction throttle and no idle stops on a
> 912S engine. Does anybody know how to balance the carbs with this setup
so I
> can stop bending my carb throttle valve levers when I pull it back to
idle.
>
> Thank you in advance for any information.
> Dan Aller
>
>
> I have the same setup on my Classic IV with the 912UL. I have been happy
> with my carb balance using a feeler gauge at the carb throttle stop at the
full
> throttle position. It is possible to bend components by pulling too hard
> toward the closed throttle position. My solution for this was to remove
the
> throttle springs from the carbs as this will let you feel when you have
reached the
> closed throttle position before bending anything. I also like the fact
that
> throttle operation feels similar to my recollection of the Cessna aircraft
I
> have flown in the past.
>
> I also installed the carbs so that the throttle lever is on the outboard
side
> where it is easy to make adjustments.
>
> This is what I arrived at through trial and testing and may or may not be
of
> any value for your situation or preferences.
>
> Bill Willyard
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Carb Balance 912S |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Wwillyard@aol.com
In a message dated 6/23/2004 9:31:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
daller1@zoominternet.net writes:
Bill Willyard,
Thank you very much for input.
What do you mean,using a feeler gauge at the carb throttle stop at the [full
throttle position]?
Dan
Dan, there is a fixed mechanical stop on the carb throttle plate lever for
full open throttle. I advance the throttle until one the lever reaches the stop
on one of the carbs. I then very slightly close the throttle and select the
appropriate feeler gauge thickness to match the arbitrary gap between the
throttle lever and the full throttle stop. Once I have determined the necessary
feeler gauge thickness I proceed to the other carb and check the gap against
the feeler gauge. Adjust the throttle cable on this carb (using the cable
housing at the carb to obtain the desired gap). Cycle the throttle closed and
repeat the above procedure to verify that you have mechanically synchronized the
carbs at full throttle. Make additional adjustments until you have achieved an
equal gap on both carbs. (All this assumes that the 912ULS carbs are
constructed similar to the 912UL carbs.)
I then do a similar procedure at full closed throttle between the idle speed
adjustment screw and the throttle lever. You will need to back the idle speed
adjustment screws off to start with. Chose any feel gauge thickness you
desire and adjust the idle speed screws unit there is an equal gap on both carbs.
You will now have to advance both idle speed screws equally until you have
achieved the desired idle speed. The carbs are now mechanically synchronized.
This procedure has worked well for me as the two EGT temps I monitor read
reasonably close during flight.
Bill W.
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilohcom@c-magic.com>
Simple question... What fluid do you fill a mag compass with
Blue Skies
Bob Unternaehrer
shilohcom@c-magic.com
Message 28
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tyrohelmer@aol.com
It's a fluid called "Compass Spirit." It's available from any compass
manufacturer, or compass repair facility.
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