---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/28/04: 52 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:35 AM - Re: High EGT's (582) (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 2. 03:37 AM - Re: High EGT's (582) (Fox5flyer) 3. 04:21 AM - Jareds EGT's (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 4. 05:05 AM - Re: Jareds EGT's (Fox5flyer) 5. 05:14 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (Dee Young) 6. 05:22 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (Mark Schindler) 7. 05:50 AM - Re: Jareds EGT's (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 8. 06:40 AM - Re: High EGT's (582) (jareds) 9. 06:52 AM - SV: WarpDrive propeller (Michel Verheughe) 10. 06:59 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (Steve Cooper) 11. 07:06 AM - Re: SV: WarpDrive propeller (Mark Schindler) 12. 07:12 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (Steve Cooper) 13. 07:17 AM - Re: High EGT's (582) (Don) 14. 07:34 AM - Re: High EGT's (582) (Jeff Thomas) 15. 07:36 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (Steve Cooper) 16. 07:38 AM - Re: flat batteries (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 17. 07:43 AM - Re: High EGT's (582) (jareds) 18. 07:50 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net (Aerobatics@aol.com) 19. 08:18 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (jdmcbean) 20. 08:21 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net (Mark Schindler) 21. 08:48 AM - Spinner (Joel Mapes) 22. 08:57 AM - Re: High EGT's (582) (Bruce Harrington) 23. 08:59 AM - Re: Jareds EGT's (Bruce Harrington) 24. 09:19 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net (Steve Cooper) 25. 09:40 AM - Re: Spinner (jdmcbean) 26. 09:41 AM - Magazine Article (Off Topic) (Scott McClintock) 27. 09:59 AM - Flaperson Adjustment (FREDERICKSON, JOHN L [AG/2067]) 28. 10:31 AM - Re: flat batteries (kurt schrader) 29. 10:34 AM - Re: flat batteries (kurt schrader) 30. 10:56 AM - Re: Flaperson Adjustment (kurt schrader) 31. 11:58 AM - Re: SV: WarpDrive propeller (Marc Arseneault) 32. 12:22 PM - Re: flat batteries (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 33. 12:22 PM - Re: Flaperson Adjustment (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 34. 12:30 PM - Re: Jareds EGT's (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 35. 12:45 PM - Re: High EGT's (582) (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 36. 12:51 PM - Re: High EGT's (582) (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 37. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: Jareds EGT's () 38. 02:26 PM - WarpDrive Props (Michel) (Scott McClintock) 39. 03:28 PM - Re: Jareds EGT's (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 40. 03:34 PM - Re: WarpDrive Props (Michel) (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 41. 04:36 PM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (Bruce Lina) 42. 04:57 PM - Re: WarpDrive Props (Michel) (Steve Cooper) 43. 05:20 PM - Re: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net (Lowell Fitt) 44. 05:27 PM - Re: Flaperson Adjustment (Lowell Fitt) 45. 06:28 PM - Re: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net (Steve Cooper) 46. 07:08 PM - Re: High EGT's (582) (Jerry Liles) 47. 07:18 PM - kitfox I info (Randy Bortree) 48. 07:42 PM - Re: Jareds EGT's (Jerry Liles) 49. 07:43 PM - Re: Loss of Engine power! (Ray) (Ceashman@aol.com) 50. 07:55 PM - Re: kitfox I info (jdmcbean) 51. 07:55 PM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (jdmcbean) 52. 10:20 PM - Re: Jareds EGT's (Bruce Harrington) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:21 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: High EGT's (582) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 6/27/04 7:07:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jareds@verizon.net writes: > Swapped EGT sensors in the exhaust boss today and I am still getting a > high EGT reading on the front cylinder on a 582 engine with only 60hrs. > RPM EGT Front EGT Rear > 5760 1184 1117 > 6180 1155 1097 > > Any ideas? > > Jared > Jared, Numbers don't look too awful bad. What main jet are you running? I use a couple size sockets to adjust my slide openings. Open the slide to a point where a small socket will just barley wiggle and slide into the opening (twist throttle for exact fit). Take the socket to the other carb and adjust for the same fit. Go to a bigger socket and open the slide to suit. The fit on both should be the same. Using a couple size sockets is just a double check to see that you are linear as the slides open more. You might try moving the needle clip one groove to the richer position on the front carb. Check the plug color. You probably won't see any difference with your present readings. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:37:55 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: High EGT's (582) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Jared, I've got a lot of hours behind a 582 and I always got the best performance and fuel economy by running right at 1200. I don't consider those high EGTs you're getting. Simple adjustments to the carbs/linkage should resolve the small difference. Darrel > Swapped EGT sensors in the exhaust boss today and I am still getting a > high EGT reading on the front cylinder on a 582 engine with only 60hrs. > RPM EGT Front EGT Rear > 5760 1184 1117 > 6180 1155 1097 > > Any ideas? > > Jared > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:59 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Jareds EGT's --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Darrel and Jerry, I read your earlier post saying to adjust the carb linkage to bring the two EGT's closer together. I don't question your knowledge on the 582 at all but am having a senior moment and just can't see changing the slide position. Maybe I'm about to learn something. The way I see it, adjusting the linkage on one carb with actually throw the carb sync out. You would be telling one cylinder to try and run faster than the other. One carb would be sucking more/less air and the relationship of the mid range jet would be different. It seems to me that the two carb slides should be set exactly the same with the linkage and different EGT adjustment would be accomplished with the needle clips. That way, the air part of the fuel/air mixture is the same and only the fuel part is changed. Jared indicates that his difference is at the mid range. Having said that, please educate me. As I said, it's early in Virginia and I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:39 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jareds EGT's --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Don, I think I said "adjustments to carb/linkage" which means a combination of both. In otherwords some tweaking which includes jetting. I don't think his EGTs are off far enough to get too worried over. Perfection is often like chasing shadows, especially on two strokes. My primary focus would be on plug readings. Darrel > Darrel and Jerry, > I read your earlier post saying to adjust the carb linkage to bring the > two EGT's closer together. I don't question your knowledge on the 582 at all > but am having a senior moment and just can't see changing the slide position. > Maybe I'm about to learn something. > The way I see it, adjusting the linkage on one carb with actually throw > the carb sync out. You would be telling one cylinder to try and run faster > than the other. One carb would be sucking more/less air and the relationship of > the mid range jet would be different. > It seems to me that the two carb slides should be set exactly the same > with the linkage and different EGT adjustment would be accomplished with the > needle clips. That way, the air part of the fuel/air mixture is the same and > only the fuel part is changed. Jared indicates that his difference is at the mid > range. > Having said that, please educate me. As I said, it's early in Virginia > and I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet. > > Don Smythe > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:47 AM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 05:14:41 -0700 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" Hi Steve and Mark, I am going to comment on this sugject. I have a 62 hp KFM which is the engine the Jabiru was derived. I had a Warp Drive prop and was planning on installing this prop. Warp drive folks told me that it would not be a good idea, something about the harmonics that comes from a 4 strokes Dee Young Model II N345DY ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Cooper To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 8:49 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > And why would that be? Do you have ANY first hand knowledge of Warp on a Jabiru? Steve Cooper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Schindler" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler > > > Warp is a nice prop but not on Jabiru engine. > Just my $.02 > Mark > > AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > In a message dated 6/27/04 2:16:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, michel@online.no > writes: > > > > too. I see on the Norwegian microlight site that someone is selling a 65" > > tapered tip WarpDrive prop with Jabiru hub. The price is cheap, about US$ > > 450. > > Is it something I should buy? I read on the internet that a lot of WarpDrive > > props have lost a blade in flight. What would you advice me to do? > > > > Thanks in advance > > Michel, > I can't advise on the proper Warp prop that you might need...However, I > don't recall hearing that Warp prop's lost blades...I think I heard of IVO > prop's loosing blades. This goes way back to the PROP WAR's we had on the list. > Can't remember for sure who was loosing blades??? > I went from the GSC wooden prop to the Warp and picked up a little > performance. I'm pretty happy with the Warp. > > Don Smythe > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:23 AM PST US From: Mark Schindler Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler Hope this answers your question: http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivepropfailure2.htm Mark Steve Cooper wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" And why would that be? Do you have ANY first hand knowledge of Warp on a Jabiru? Steve Cooper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Schindler" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler > > Warp is a nice prop but not on Jabiru engine. > Just my $.02 > Mark > > AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > In a message dated 6/27/04 2:16:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, michel@online.no > writes: > > > > too. I see on the Norwegian microlight site that someone is selling a 65" > > tapered tip WarpDrive prop with Jabiru hub. The price is cheap, about US$ > > 450. > > Is it something I should buy? I read on the internet that a lot of WarpDrive > > props have lost a blade in flight. What would you advice me to do? > > > > Thanks in advance > > Michel, > I can't advise on the proper Warp prop that you might need...However, I > don't recall hearing that Warp prop's lost blades...I think I heard of IVO > prop's loosing blades. This goes way back to the PROP WAR's we had on the list. > Can't remember for sure who was loosing blades??? > I went from the GSC wooden prop to the Warp and picked up a little > performance. I'm pretty happy with the Warp. > > Don Smythe > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:20 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jareds EGT's --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Don, I think I said "adjustments to carb/linkage" which means a combination of both. In otherwords some tweaking which includes jetting. I don't think his EGTs are off far enough to get too worried over. Perfection is often like chasing shadows, especially on two strokes. My primary focus would be on plug readings. Darrel Thanks, I feel better now (old age) and totally agree with all the above. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:06 AM PST US From: jareds Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: High EGT's (582) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds Don, I do that trick EVERY time i adjust ..........and guess where i learned it from ..............You the master!!! Plug color is perfect but I have not moved the clips. I have the same main jets as you recomened for spring flying but off the top of my head i'm getting the numbers mixed up with the jets in my harley's so i'll have to look them up. Having read the rest of the posts though, I don't see any other tips. If i move the clip richer (have to look that one up) but leave the carbs slides synced I'll hopefully even them out. The reason i worry is because Lockwood says no more than 40 degrees difference and i'm around 80 sometimes. I'm also rusty about trying to keep the EGT's under 1200 since i am un practiced on the procedure for pulling power when landing or in descent? IF someone can comment on their process or procecdure for landing or descent that would be great. I"m used to flying bigger planes with that ole checklist! AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > >In a message dated 6/27/04 7:07:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >jareds@verizon.net writes: > > > > >>Swapped EGT sensors in the exhaust boss today and I am still getting a >>high EGT reading on the front cylinder on a 582 engine with only 60hrs. >>RPM EGT Front EGT Rear >>5760 1184 1117 >>6180 1155 1097 >> >>Any ideas? >> >>Jared >> >> >> > >Jared, > Numbers don't look too awful bad. What main jet are you running? I use >a couple size sockets to adjust my slide openings. Open the slide to a point >where a small socket will just barley wiggle and slide into the opening (twist >throttle for exact fit). Take the socket to the other carb and adjust for >the same fit. Go to a bigger socket and open the slide to suit. The fit on >both should be the same. Using a couple size sockets is just a double check to >see that you are linear as the slides open more. > You might try moving the needle clip one groove to the richer position on >the front carb. > Check the plug color. You probably won't see any difference with your >present readings. >Don Smythe >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:56 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Mark Schindler [mtschindler@yahoo.com] > Hope this answers your question: > http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivepropfailure2.htm Yes Mark, and there is also: http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivefailure.htm Which is why, in my initial email I wrote: >> I read on the internet that a lot of WarpDrive >> props have lost a blade in flight. What would you advice me to do? So ... I don't know what to think: buy that WarpDrive prop or ... use more money and buy an electrical variable pitch IvoProp. Somehow, I like the idea of variable pitch. But ... is the IvoProp worth the expense? Any Kitfox with Jabiru 2200 and IvoProp around? What do you think, guys? Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:18 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" This old (Oct. 2001) article is regarding the (old) prop hub which did have a problem with cracking. Warp has long since manufactured a new prop hub for installation on the Jabiru and the Rotax 912. ...anything else? Steve Cooper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Schindler" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler > > Hope this answers your question: > > http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivepropfailure2.htm > > Mark > > Steve Cooper wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > And why would that be? Do you have ANY first hand knowledge of Warp on a > Jabiru? > > Steve Cooper > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Schindler" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler > > > > Warp is a nice prop but not on Jabiru engine. > > Just my $.02 > > Mark > > > > AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > > > In a message dated 6/27/04 2:16:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > michel@online.no > > writes: > > > > > > > too. I see on the Norwegian microlight site that someone is selling a > 65" > > > tapered tip WarpDrive prop with Jabiru hub. The price is cheap, about > US$ > > > 450. > > > Is it something I should buy? I read on the internet that a lot of > WarpDrive > > > props have lost a blade in flight. What would you advice me to do? > > > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > Michel, > > I can't advise on the proper Warp prop that you might need...However, I > > don't recall hearing that Warp prop's lost blades...I think I heard of IVO > > prop's loosing blades. This goes way back to the PROP WAR's we had on the > list. > > Can't remember for sure who was loosing blades??? > > I went from the GSC wooden prop to the Warp and picked up a little > > performance. I'm pretty happy with the Warp. > > > > Don Smythe > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:04 AM PST US From: Mark Schindler Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler Michel If you are interested in IVO in flight adjustable talk to Chris Bolkan ChrisB@cadwell.com he has it set up on his Avid. As far as I know he is very happy with the airplane performance but is saying that prop has little more vibrations - not as smooth in flight - as others. I'm going to send you an ivitation to join our Avid group you can read the posts yourself as well as you can see Chrises Polyswitch setup on his prop. Mark Schindler Michel Verheughe wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Mark Schindler [mtschindler@yahoo.com] > Hope this answers your question: > http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivepropfailure2.htm Yes Mark, and there is also: http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivefailure.htm Which is why, in my initial email I wrote: >> I read on the internet that a lot of WarpDrive >> props have lost a blade in flight. What would you advice me to do? So ... I don't know what to think: buy that WarpDrive prop or ... use more money and buy an electrical variable pitch IvoProp. Somehow, I like the idea of variable pitch. But ... is the IvoProp worth the expense? Any Kitfox with Jabiru 2200 and IvoProp around? What do you think, guys? Cheers, Michel --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:18 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" OH!!! You got that from the "Ultralightnews Web" guy...ya, he got run off the Fly-UL list several years ago. I Wonder what ax he has to grind with Warp...the probably wouldn't pay to advertise on his Web site! I wouldn't believe a thing that guy writes...another "Zoom". I will be calling Warp today and ask them if they have read the information posted on Mr. Ultralightnews site... Steve Cooper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > From: Mark Schindler [mtschindler@yahoo.com] > > Hope this answers your question: > > http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivepropfailure2.htm > > Yes Mark, and there is also: > http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivefailure.htm > > Which is why, in my initial email I wrote: > >> I read on the internet that a lot of WarpDrive > >> props have lost a blade in flight. What would you advice me to do? > > So ... I don't know what to think: buy that WarpDrive prop or ... use more money and buy an electrical variable pitch IvoProp. Somehow, I like the idea of variable pitch. But ... is the IvoProp worth the expense? Any Kitfox with Jabiru 2200 and IvoProp around? What do you think, guys? > > Cheers, > Michel > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:05 AM PST US From: "Don" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: High EGT's (582) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don" I use the Artic sparrow mixture control, and adjust them to my EGT temp. Both readings are 1200. Just logged 600 hours on my 582. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "jareds" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: High EGT's (582) > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds > > I did a third balance on them and they are identical. > Opening the slide on the hot one a bit more though should get things a > bit more even but what will keep the temps lower? Or are they close to > typical? > > > Jerry Liles wrote: > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles > > > >Well, It's not terrible. Sounds like the carbs need a bit of balancing, > >In other words the carburator slide is opening a bit wider on one than > >the other so one cylinder is running a hair richer than the other. > >Should be fixable with a simple adjustment of the cables to the carbs to > >equalize the openings. > > > >Jerry Liles > > > >jareds wrote: > > > > > > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds > >> > >>Swapped EGT sensors in the exhaust boss today and I am still getting a > >>high EGT reading on the front cylinder on a 582 engine with only 60hrs. > >>RPM EGT Front EGT Rear > >>5760 1184 1117 > >>6180 1155 1097 > >> > >>Any ideas? > >> > >>Jared > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:41 AM PST US From: "Jeff Thomas" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: High EGT's (582) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeff Thomas" Jared I had the same problem (front cylinder EGT running hot) by about 100 - 150 degrees in the cruise. I played with the needle "clip" settings without a lot of success, so removed the needle from the front carb and sanded it down by hand with some very fine emery paper in the area of the needle that is inside the jet at cruise power. It took 2 or 3 attempts because I didn't want to sand off too much in one go, but the readings I get now are now pretty close... about what you are getting! Regards Jeff Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "jareds" Subject: Kitfox-List: High EGT's (582) > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds > > Swapped EGT sensors in the exhaust boss today and I am still getting a > high EGT reading on the front cylinder on a 582 engine with only 60hrs. > RPM EGT Front EGT Rear > 5760 1184 1117 > 6180 1155 1097 > > Any ideas? > > Jared > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:12 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Are you aware that the "Ultralightnews" information on the Warp Prop failure that your quoting here is from the mid '80s? Also, did you notice how Mr. Ultralightnews doesn't date any of this stuff nor does he print any references for any of these perported failures? Sort of makes you question the credibility of the author... Steve Cooper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > From: Mark Schindler [mtschindler@yahoo.com] > > Hope this answers your question: > > http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivepropfailure2.htm > > Yes Mark, and there is also: > http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivefailure.htm > > Which is why, in my initial email I wrote: > >> I read on the internet that a lot of WarpDrive > >> props have lost a blade in flight. What would you advice me to do? > > So ... I don't know what to think: buy that WarpDrive prop or ... use more money and buy an electrical variable pitch IvoProp. Somehow, I like the idea of variable pitch. But ... is the IvoProp worth the expense? Any Kitfox with Jabiru 2200 and IvoProp around? What do you think, guys? > > Cheers, > Michel > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:28 AM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flat batteries --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net the panel volt meter shows 13.8 V when the 912 is running. over time the 2 rg batteries have gone flat within about 6 months of use, no longer holding a charge. from what i have read this can be the result of over charging or charging too quickly and surmized that running with full load would ease the charging rate on the battery. the panel meter shows about 12.8 V when running with everything turned on. looking for suggestions. John > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > > John, > > Didn't see any replys to this??? But I was gone too. > > First you should hook up a good meter and then see > what it reads with the alternator off, then on. Do > this to check your on-board meter to see if you > actually have a problem, or just a low meter reading. > > Other than reading low volts, was there another > problem? I think I missed something. Why do you want > to charge it more slowly? > > Kurt S. > > --- kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote: > > > > I am trying a new approach with RG battery--loading > > up the system with strobes and nav lights whenever > > the engine is running, thinking that using some of > > the current from the alternator, less impact will be > > experienced by the battery. What say you list > > members? > > > > On the initial flight the volt/ammeter was > > indicating more in the 12+V range than the normal > > 13.8V. > > > > John > > > > __________________________________ > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:27 AM PST US From: jareds Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: High EGT's (582) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds Jeff, So are you saying your numbers match mine? Because it takes nothing at all to roar over that 1200 EGT limit. Granted i'm rusty and sloppy with that mid range on descent but its' just too easy to get over that number? RPM EGT Front EGT Rear 5760 1184 1117 6180 1155 1097 Jeff Thomas wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeff Thomas" > >Jared >I had the same problem (front cylinder EGT running hot) by about 100 - 150 >degrees in the cruise. I played with the needle "clip" settings without a >lot of success, so removed the needle from the front carb and sanded it down >by hand with some very fine emery paper in the area of the needle that is >inside the jet at cruise power. > >It took 2 or 3 attempts because I didn't want to sand off too much in one >go, but the readings I get now are now pretty close... about what you are >getting! > >Regards > >Jeff >Do not archive > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "jareds" >To: >Subject: Kitfox-List: High EGT's (582) > > > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds >> >>Swapped EGT sensors in the exhaust boss today and I am still getting a >>high EGT reading on the front cylinder on a 582 engine with only 60hrs. >>RPM EGT Front EGT Rear >>5760 1184 1117 >>6180 1155 1097 >> >>Any ideas? >> >>Jared >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:56 AM PST US From: Aerobatics@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com It shows how one person bent on harming someone..or some company can do so with impunity. This is wrong .... I believe in free speach....but? How many Warp drives were not sold due to this guys behaviour? A good product, good people and thier jobs adversly affect? I dont use Warp Drive..... but, I have a lot of great reports and have seen many many people use them and are very happy.. I hear they are very strong and effecient.... the only concideration, and Warp will quide you, is using the correct Box.... I use an IVO because its lighter.... If you can,go to a fly in, walk around, ask questions, touchy feely ...better than internet! Enjoy.... fly safe! Dave KF 2 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:05 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Michel, I'm a distributor for the IVO and know of several that are flying behind it on a Kitfox. Personally.. I love the performance. I do not know of any Jab powered Kitfox's flying the IVO. The IVO should work great on the 2200. The Warp is also a great prop and I have flown several hours behind it. It is tough to beat variable pitch props for performance.. unless of course you go to constant speed. Of course IVO offers a electric constant speed also... Haven't used it. Blue Skies John & Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Mark Schindler [mtschindler@yahoo.com] > Hope this answers your question: > http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivepropfailure2.htm Yes Mark, and there is also: http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivefailure.htm Which is why, in my initial email I wrote: >> I read on the internet that a lot of WarpDrive >> props have lost a blade in flight. What would you advice me to do? So ... I don't know what to think: buy that WarpDrive prop or ... use more money and buy an electrical variable pitch IvoProp. Somehow, I like the idea of variable pitch. But ... is the IvoProp worth the expense? Any Kitfox with Jabiru 2200 and IvoProp around? What do you think, guys? Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:22 AM PST US From: Mark Schindler Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler Dave 1. I don't have anything against Warp - I've used it when I had 582 on my airplane and it worked fine. 2. Looks that Dee Young who replied to previous post received the info posted directly from Warp 3. Wap did issue and AD on the hub which indicates that there was a problem which possibly got fixed All that said - Michel who originally asked the question will make the decision based on this fourm as well as other info he will gather. I see no point in discounting the information - just evaluate and use it. Regards Mark Aerobatics@aol.com wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com It shows how one person bent on harming someone..or some company can do so with impunity. This is wrong .... I believe in free speach....but? How many Warp drives were not sold due to this guys behaviour? A good product, good people and thier jobs adversly affect? I dont use Warp Drive..... but, I have a lot of great reports and have seen many many people use them and are very happy.. I hear they are very strong and effecient.... the only concideration, and Warp will quide you, is using the correct Box.... I use an IVO because its lighter.... If you can,go to a fly in, walk around, ask questions, touchy feely ...better than internet! Enjoy.... fly safe! Dave KF 2 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:44 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Spinner From: "Joel Mapes" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" Thanks Don for the posting. It seems that Outlook Web Access formats messages in a way the list server does not like, while Outlook works fine. I'm hoping to find someone with experience using the GTA in-flight adjustable pitch prop with a 912. My project is a Series 5 smooth cowl and it looks like a 10 3/4" to 11" spinner will work nicely with the cowling. Aircraft Spruce sells a fiberglass spinner, but they declined to provide one with cut-outs large enough for this prop. They also have a 10 3/4" aluminum spinner but I would rather not order one without a reasonable degree of assurance that it would work. Joel Mapes Software Engineer OEM / OCA Team roxio The Digital Media Company* 10030 Silverdale Way NW, Ste 101 Silverdale, WA 98383 USA 360 613 9988 direct 360 613 4266 fax joel.mapes@roxio.com www.roxio.com NASDAQ:"ROXI" Featuring the Best-Selling CD-Recording Software in the World ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:58 AM PST US From: "Bruce Harrington" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: High EGT's (582) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" Hi Jared, I had high EGTs on descents also, in my 582ed IV-1200. So I installed an Artic Sparrow mixture control. One way to handle the high EGT on descent is to pull the throttle back until the EGTs drop back to comfortable levels. Never dive with half throttle! Over lean occurs, followed by strange sounds and stuff from the 582! I tried this just once! Alternately, increase the needle jet size by 1 for the front cyl.. bh Ex-N194KF, 582ed, IV-1200, 800+ hrs > So are you saying your numbers match mine? Because it takes nothing at > all to roar over that 1200 EGT limit. Granted i'm rusty and sloppy with > that mid range on descent but its' just too easy to get over that number? > > RPM EGT Front EGT Rear > 5760 1184 1117 > 6180 1155 1097 > > > Jeff Thomas wrote: ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:40 AM PST US From: "Bruce Harrington" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jareds EGT's --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" Don, did I forget to talk to you about needle jets? Old Pit Crew - bh > It seems to me that the two carb slides should be set exactly the same > with the linkage and different EGT adjustment would be accomplished with the > needle clips. That way, the air part of the fuel/air mixture is the same and > only the fuel part is changed. Jared indicates that his difference is at the mid > range. > Having said that, please educate me. As I said, it's early in Virginia > and I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet. > > Don Smythe > DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:12 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com > > It shows how one person bent on harming someone..or some company can do so > with impunity. This is wrong .... > > I believe in free speach....but? > > How many Warp drives were not sold due to this guys behaviour? A good > product, good people and thier jobs adversly affect? > > I dont use Warp Drive..... but, I have a lot of great reports and have seen > many many people use them and are very happy.. I hear they are very strong > and effecient.... the only concideration, and Warp will quide you, is using the > correct Box.... > > I use an IVO because its lighter.... > > If you can,go to a fly in, walk around, ask questions, touchy feely ...better > than internet! > > Enjoy.... fly safe! > > Dave KF 2 Great advice...that's what I did. Take a look around and see what people are flying. Sometimes it's better to get your head out (hehehe) of the internet to see what's REALLY truthful. You begin to understand that a lot of what is said on the net is nothing more than downright slander. Steve Cooper ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:04 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Spinner --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Joel, I use a 10.75 aluminum spinner with the IVO. The cut-outs are about 3" wide x 2" deep. I could measure if needed... I made the cut-outs specific for the IVO and it has worked great. You may need to mfg a front bulkhead to go with it. Blue Skies John & Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Joel Mapes Subject: Kitfox-List: Spinner --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" Thanks Don for the posting. It seems that Outlook Web Access formats messages in a way the list server does not like, while Outlook works fine. I'm hoping to find someone with experience using the GTA in-flight adjustable pitch prop with a 912. My project is a Series 5 smooth cowl and it looks like a 10 3/4" to 11" spinner will work nicely with the cowling. Aircraft Spruce sells a fiberglass spinner, but they declined to provide one with cut-outs large enough for this prop. They also have a 10 3/4" aluminum spinner but I would rather not order one without a reasonable degree of assurance that it would work. Joel Mapes Software Engineer OEM / OCA Team roxio The Digital Media Company* 10030 Silverdale Way NW, Ste 101 Silverdale, WA 98383 USA 360 613 9988 direct 360 613 4266 fax joel.mapes@roxio.com www.roxio.com NASDAQ:"ROXI" Featuring the Best-Selling CD-Recording Software in the World ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:50 AM PST US From: Scott McClintock Subject: Kitfox-List: Magazine Article (Off Topic) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Good Lord! The biker in you wakes up again! Man, you ain't as sweet as I thought first! :-) Michel, I've been called (and accused) of being a lot of things, but "sweet" has never been one of them! :-) As far as being Ugly, I'll have you know that I am a card carrying, hard-core member of the UMF. I founded the very first Alaska Chapter (13) in Haines in 2000 and am a National member. If you want to know what "UMF" stands for, you'll have to contact me off-list (or use a little imagination) Hint: It's not "Unusually Masculine Fellows". But that's what we tell the "ladies". I'll bet some of you Utah or San Diego guys know exactly what. Our Motto: Ugly is as Ugly does. Scott in Nome DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:50 AM PST US From: "FREDERICKSON, JOHN L [AG/2067]" Subject: Kitfox-List: Flaperson Adjustment --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "FREDERICKSON, JOHN L [AG/2067]" I heard from a fellow the other day that my flaperons aren't rigged properly (although I've been flying it for 7 years). He says that when one flaperon is down, the other should be up a similar amount? He says that one needed a picture along with the directions to properly rig the flaperons. When I received my kit in 91, Denny (Skystar) hadn't completed the directions. So, I didn't have a picture to help establish where the 11.5 degree measurement was to be taken. Has anyone heard of this? What's a possible problem (I've turned 45 degrees in both directions without noticeable differences)? ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:31:56 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flat batteries --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader John, Ok, now I get it. 6 months on a battery isn't too good. It used to be pretty common practice to drive cars with your headlights on when taking long trips for the same reason - to keep from over charging the battery. For shorter trips, or flights, you do little more than replace the starting charge. (It takes about 5 miles of driving, etc, to recharge a car battery. Farther if the lights are on.) With the new "low maintenance" sealed batteries, this practice has stopped. Flying: For pattern work and short flights, you may not need much turned on. I flew with a friend in a 182 and in less than an hour the battery went dead in the pattern. He had everything turned on and the alternator couldn't charge when at lower power. The high power time in the pattern was not sufficient to keep the charge up. The tower thought it was funny when we could finally talk to them again. I have an amp meter on my plane. It helps since I can not hand prop the NSI Soob, and the ignition is all electronic, so a dead battery is a dead engine. I even added an "idiot light" to keep me heads up. I recommend that you use an amp gauge to monitor battery life. You can look to see how much charging is going on and turn lights on or off accordingly. I agree that the desulfating systems you found could help. Same with good trickle chargers. Other problems with batteries are letting them sit idle, then hit them with a high demand, like starting; or deep cycling them - taking them to very low states of charge. So it depends upon how often you fly and how you charge the battery between flights as well as in flight. I wonder if you need a better battery to begin with? That seems to be too little battery life for some unusual reason. Back to the amp gauge for determining this.... In summary and order of preference/cost: 1. Use an amp gauge to watch the battery/charging system performance. Adjust your electric load to keep the charge in the low + range. 2. Make sure you have a good battery for the application. 3. Add the desulfering and good trickle charger system for ground use between flights, and desulfering during air use. Best I can say from here. Hope it helps. Kurt S. --- kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > kerrjohna@comcast.net > > the panel volt meter shows 13.8 V when the 912 is > running. over time the 2 rg batteries have gone flat > within about 6 months of use, no longer holding a > charge. from what i have read this can be the result > of over charging or charging too quickly and > surmized that running with full load would ease the > charging rate on the battery. the panel meter shows > about 12.8 V when running with everything turned on. > > looking for suggestions. > > John __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:21 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flat batteries --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader John, I should have said that Rex found these desulfating systems. Credit to him. Kurt S. --- rex@awarenest.com wrote: > > I'm no expert, but slower charging is more gentle > on > batteries from all I've read about it. John's method > of > taking away some of the amps generated seems a > workable > solution at first glance. However, I've found that > often > things aren't as easy as that, so asking advice from > more > experienced folks is a good idea. > > There may be a charge controlling device that > could be > adapted to our aircraft to provide the optimum rate > of > charge. I know that such "smart" devices are > available for > charging batteries from an AC outlet. If none exist > for > enhancing mobile charging systems such in vehicles. > Perhaps a "techie" could convert one from components > in a > home charger? > Check this site: > http://www.battery-sentinel.com > > Rex __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:12 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperson Adjustment --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Which model do you have? To reduce adverse yaw, the rising flapperon should go up more than the dropping flapperon. If I remember correctly, this differential flapperon system was used on the IV and later models. Earlier ones didn't have the differential system and have moe adverse yaw. Kurt S. --- "FREDERICKSON, JOHN L [AG/2067]" wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "FREDERICKSON, > JOHN L [AG/2067]" > > I heard from a fellow the other day that my > flaperons aren't rigged properly (although I've been > flying it for 7 years). He says that when one > flaperon is down, the other should be up a similar > amount? He says that one needed a picture along > with the directions to properly rig the flaperons. > When I received my kit in 91, Denny (Skystar) hadn't > completed the directions. So, I didn't have a > picture to help establish where the 11.5 degree > measurement was to be taken. Has anyone heard of > this? What's a possible problem (I've turned 45 > degrees in both directions without noticeable > differences)? __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:44 AM PST US From: "Marc Arseneault" Subject: RE: SV: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" Ivo and Warp drive in my opinion are both really good props. As for the info. from the Ultralightnews website, that info. is very often wrong/bad info. and again in my opinion isn't worth $0.01. It is posible Michel to alsopurchase an in-flight adjustable Warp drive as well as a Ivoprop. Best Regards, Marc Arseneault Ontario Canada From: Michel Verheughe michel@online.no Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:52:41 +0200 (CEST) -- Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe michel@online.no From: Mark Schindler [mtschindler@yahoo.com] Hope this answers your question: http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivepropfailure2.htm Yes Mark, and there is also: http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivefailure.h ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:12 PM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flat batteries --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net these have been the "better" batteries, $80 instead of the $35 lead acid types. my amp meter may not be sensing the flow correctly because I see very little change. John > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > > John, > > Ok, now I get it. 6 months on a battery isn't too > good. > > It used to be pretty common practice to drive cars > with your headlights on when taking long trips for the > same reason - to keep from over charging the battery. > For shorter trips, or flights, you do little more than > replace the starting charge. (It takes about 5 miles > of driving, etc, to recharge a car battery. Farther > if the lights are on.) With the new "low maintenance" > sealed batteries, this practice has stopped. > > Flying: For pattern work and short flights, you may > not need much turned on. I flew with a friend in a > 182 and in less than an hour the battery went dead in > the pattern. He had everything turned on and the > alternator couldn't charge when at lower power. The > high power time in the pattern was not sufficient to > keep the charge up. The tower thought it was funny > when we could finally talk to them again. > > I have an amp meter on my plane. It helps since I can > not hand prop the NSI Soob, and the ignition is all > electronic, so a dead battery is a dead engine. I > even added an "idiot light" to keep me heads up. I > recommend that you use an amp gauge to monitor battery > life. You can look to see how much charging is going > on and turn lights on or off accordingly. > > I agree that the desulfating systems you found could > help. Same with good trickle chargers. > > Other problems with batteries are letting them sit > idle, then hit them with a high demand, like starting; > or deep cycling them - taking them to very low states > of charge. So it depends upon how often you fly and > how you charge the battery between flights as well as > in flight. > > I wonder if you need a better battery to begin with? > That seems to be too little battery life for some > unusual reason. Back to the amp gauge for determining > this.... > > In summary and order of preference/cost: > > 1. Use an amp gauge to watch the battery/charging > system performance. Adjust your electric load to keep > the charge in the low + range. > > 2. Make sure you have a good battery for the > application. > > 3. Add the desulfering and good trickle charger > system for ground use between flights, and desulfering > during air use. > > Best I can say from here. Hope it helps. > > Kurt S. > > --- kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote: > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > > kerrjohna@comcast.net > > > > the panel volt meter shows 13.8 V when the 912 is > > running. over time the 2 rg batteries have gone flat > > within about 6 months of use, no longer holding a > > charge. from what i have read this can be the result > > of over charging or charging too quickly and > > surmized that running with full load would ease the > > charging rate on the battery. the panel meter shows > > about 12.8 V when running with everything turned on. > > > > looking for suggestions. > > > > John > > > > __________________________________ > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:57 PM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperson Adjustment --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net you will probably get a lot of input on this, but one of the reasons for nice handling of the kitfox is the differential aileron effect, more up in the lower pressure area than down in the higher pressure area. with equal deflection more adverse yaw will be experienced during roll maneuvers. John > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "FREDERICKSON, JOHN L [AG/2067]" > > > I heard from a fellow the other day that my flaperons aren't rigged properly > (although I've been flying it for 7 years). He says that when one flaperon is > down, the other should be up a similar amount? He says that one needed a > picture along with the directions to properly rig the flaperons. When I > received my kit in 91, Denny (Skystar) hadn't completed the directions. So, I > didn't have a picture to help establish where the 11.5 degree measurement was to > be taken. Has anyone heard of this? What's a possible problem (I've turned 45 > degrees in both directions without noticeable differences)? > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:53 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jareds EGT's --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Don, did I forget to talk to you about needle jets? Old Pit Crew - bh BH, You old Dog you and master of the Pit Crew....I was coming to the needle jet. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:12 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: High EGT's (582) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Jared, Thanks but the real master just replied (BH). Look at changing the needle jet by 1 on the hot cylinder. Also, when you get through messing around, go fly the plane and give it full throttle at "LEVEL" flight. Your EGT's will be controlled by the Main Jet ONLY and see what you get plus any differences. Also, look for 6799.54754 RPM or, less than 6800. If you have to change prop pitch to get the desired 6800, the EGT's will follow. Increase prop pitch will make the EGT's lower. Decrease pitch and EGT's go up. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:15 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: High EGT's (582) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 6/28/04 7:54:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jareds@verizon.net writes: > all to roar over that 1200 EGT limit. Granted i'm rusty and sloppy with > that mid range on descent but its' just too easy to get over that number? > > RPM EGT Front EGT Rear > 5760 1184 1117 > 6180 1155 1097 > > Jared, The closer you are to 1200 in the 5760 RPM range, the easier it's going to be to "roar" over 1200. I personally use a temp range closer to your rear cylinders. Those with the Artic mod have the luxury to adjust for different circumstances including peak it out at cruise. I prefer to keep my temps a little away from 1200 to help stay away from those peak situations. My plug color is text book at the 1100 degree range. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:50 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List: Jareds EGT's --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > Don, So what is your synopsis of all of this. Bottom line is for me to file down the needle jet on front cylinder? > From: AlbertaIV@aol.com > Date: 2004/06/28 Mon PM 02:30:37 CDT > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jareds EGT's > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:12 PM PST US From: Scott McClintock Subject: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive Props (Michel) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock Michel, While your were drooling over the picture of the "Arctic Fox", did you not notice that I am running WarpDrive props? I am very happy with mine and the NSI CAP 140, electrically in-flight adjustable feature is a real bonus. I've gotten real good at trimming the prop for best performance under any and all conditions. The props are very durable and fairly lightweight, too. (Carbon Fiber/Nickle leading edge) The coolest thing with the CAP 140 is the ability to go to full beta. (Real handy if on floats) It's neat to be able to back up the plane when the idiot flying the misses his taxi ramp exit. The tower people get a real kick out of that, believe me! I've never had to replace any yet, but they tell me that if you booger one up, you only need to replace the single bad blade. They (WarpDrive) just need the serial number of the bad one to send you a weight matched replacement. Pretty cool, huh? I'm sure they have the hub thing solved by now too. Scott in Nome ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:15 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jareds EGT's --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Don, So what is your synopsis of all of this. Bottom line is for me to file down the needle jet on front cylinder? Jared, IMHO, ABSOLUTELY NOT.....The needle and needle jet are cone shaped to give you more clearance for the fuel to pass as you pull the needle out (more throttle). If you need more fuel to make the mixture richer, then change the needle jet or move the clips on the needle. Under no circumstances would I start filing needles. That is why they make different size needle jets and jet needles. I would leave as is until you go fly the airplane and see what EGT's you have at full throttle. Check your RPM's and adjust prop pitch as necessary to give you near 6800 in the air. If EGT's are off under this test then, change the main jet to get what you want. Then go back to the mid range if the temps between cylinders aren't to your satisfaction. Sort of, "one step at a time". Bottom line, you will most likely never see "exact" temps on both cylinders. The spec of 40 degree difference is probably text book but, this is the real world. However, I certainly don't blame you for wanting the best you can get. Fly first and verify the main jets are correct for the current weather conditions. Then back up and go for the mid range settings. For example, if you have a full throttle EGT difference then it is probably NOT the needles or needle jets. Might be something else or, might be something you have to live with. Uno-Stepo-at-a-Timo (Spanish for, one step at a time). Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:59 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive Props (Michel) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com I've never had to replace any yet, but they tell me that if you booger one up, you only need to replace the single bad blade. They (WarpDrive) just need the serial number of the bad one to send you a weight matched replacement. Pretty cool, huh? I'm There is one really bad thing about the Warp Drive Prop that I feel is unforgivable. When I hit a runway light last year with my warp, it splintered the tip on one blade and made a small dent on the second tip. The third tip was unharmed. Can you imagine that?????? Should have seen what it did to the runway light. The good part is, Warp took the prop back and reconditioned all three blades for $80 bucks (US). Can't beat that. Happy Warp Drive customer, Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:14 PM PST US From: "Bruce Lina" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Lina" John, Since you are the IVO guy, do you know anyone using one with an IO-240 . I need a new prop for better TO and climb perf. and instead of guessing at a pitch and having one made for a thousand bucks, I like the idea of tweaking the pitch to right where I want it. Thanks Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > Michel, > I'm a distributor for the IVO and know of several that are flying behind it > on a Kitfox. Personally.. I love the performance. I do not know of any Jab > powered Kitfox's flying the IVO. The IVO should work great on the 2200. > The Warp is also a great prop and I have flown several hours behind it. It > is tough to beat variable pitch props for performance.. unless of course you > go to constant speed. Of course IVO offers a electric constant speed > also... Haven't used it. > > > Blue Skies > John & Debra McBean > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > From: Mark Schindler [mtschindler@yahoo.com] > > Hope this answers your question: > > http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivepropfailure2.htm > > Yes Mark, and there is also: > http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivefailure.htm > > Which is why, in my initial email I wrote: > >> I read on the internet that a lot of WarpDrive > >> props have lost a blade in flight. What would you advice me to do? > > So ... I don't know what to think: buy that WarpDrive prop or ... use more > money and buy an electrical variable pitch IvoProp. Somehow, I like the idea > of variable pitch. But ... is the IvoProp worth the expense? Any Kitfox with > Jabiru 2200 and IvoProp around? What do you think, guys? > > Cheers, > Michel > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:00 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive Props (Michel) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Warp has bent over backwards to get me the right prop for my Avid/Jabiru. They really wanted me to be happy and satisfied with the performance. I started with a 64" 2 blade and their new hub...then they bumped me up to a 68" 2 blade...for FREE! Can't beat that kind of service and support...they even call me once in a while to make sure everything is A-OK. Steve Cooper Another VERY happy Warp Drive Customer ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:33 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Only one thought on this one from me. And that is why is the guy selling the Warp with the Jab hub lay-out. Is there something better, or is he not happy with it for other reasons. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com > > > > It shows how one person bent on harming someone..or some company can do so > > with impunity. This is wrong .... > > > > I believe in free speach....but? > > > > How many Warp drives were not sold due to this guys behaviour? A good > > product, good people and thier jobs adversly affect? > > > > I dont use Warp Drive..... but, I have a lot of great reports and have > seen > > many many people use them and are very happy.. I hear they are very > strong > > and effecient.... the only concideration, and Warp will quide you, is > using the > > correct Box.... > > > > I use an IVO because its lighter.... > > > > If you can,go to a fly in, walk around, ask questions, touchy feely > ...better > > than internet! > > > > Enjoy.... fly safe! > > > > Dave KF 2 > > Great advice...that's what I did. Take a look around and see what people are > flying. Sometimes it's better to get your head out (hehehe) of the internet > to see what's REALLY truthful. You begin to understand that a lot of what is > said on the net is nothing more than downright slander. > > Steve Cooper > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:43 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperson Adjustment --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Hi john, I read the posts the others have sent and they are good info. My question is who is the fellow and what are his qualifications for giving advice. I was told in no uncertain terms one day to tighten my tailwheel steering springs or I would be in trouble. this also after more than 300 hours. My Kitfox was the first one he had ever seen, but he was a mechanic with tons of hours working on classic tail draggers. He knew a lot about what he knew a lot about. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "FREDERICKSON, JOHN L [AG/2067]" Subject: Kitfox-List: Flaperson Adjustment > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "FREDERICKSON, JOHN L [AG/2067]" > > I heard from a fellow the other day that my flaperons aren't rigged properly (although I've been flying it for 7 years). He says that when one flaperon is down, the other should be up a similar amount? He says that one needed a picture along with the directions to properly rig the flaperons. When I received my kit in 91, Denny (Skystar) hadn't completed the directions. So, I didn't have a picture to help establish where the 11.5 degree measurement was to be taken. Has anyone heard of this? What's a possible problem (I've turned 45 degrees in both directions without noticeable differences)? > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:42 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" I don't follow your question Lowell. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > Only one thought on this one from me. And that is why is the guy selling > the Warp with the Jab hub lay-out. Is there something better, or is he not > happy with it for other reasons. > > Lowell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Cooper" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com > > > > > > It shows how one person bent on harming someone..or some company can do > so > > > with impunity. This is wrong .... > > > > > > I believe in free speach....but? > > > > > > How many Warp drives were not sold due to this guys behaviour? A good > > > product, good people and thier jobs adversly affect? > > > > > > I dont use Warp Drive..... but, I have a lot of great reports and have > > seen > > > many many people use them and are very happy.. I hear they are very > > strong > > > and effecient.... the only concideration, and Warp will quide you, is > > using the > > > correct Box.... > > > > > > I use an IVO because its lighter.... > > > > > > If you can,go to a fly in, walk around, ask questions, touchy feely > > ...better > > > than internet! > > > > > > Enjoy.... fly safe! > > > > > > Dave KF 2 > > > > Great advice...that's what I did. Take a look around and see what people > are > > flying. Sometimes it's better to get your head out (hehehe) of the > internet > > to see what's REALLY truthful. You begin to understand that a lot of what > is > > said on the net is nothing more than downright slander. > > > > Steve Cooper > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:13 PM PST US From: Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: High EGT's (582) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles I'd open the hot one no more than an RCH, just a tad and try it until you get it where you want it. It's probably asking to much for both to be perfectly identical. The temps actually are pretty good for cruise setting. If you get them too cool you'll have plug fouling problems. Shoot for about 1100 to 1150 for cruise. You could richen the mixture by raising the needle on notch if it worries you. Or, you could do what I did, install the Arctic Sparrow mixture control kit so you can change the position of the needles from the cockpit. However, I don't know if it's still available since Jacober was killed in a crash. Jerry Liles jareds wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds > >I did a third balance on them and they are identical. >Opening the slide on the hot one a bit more though should get things a >bit more even but what will keep the temps lower? Or are they close to >typical? > > >Jerry Liles wrote: > > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles >> >>Well, It's not terrible. Sounds like the carbs need a bit of balancing, >>In other words the carburator slide is opening a bit wider on one than >>the other so one cylinder is running a hair richer than the other. >>Should be fixable with a simple adjustment of the cables to the carbs to >>equalize the openings. >> >>Jerry Liles >> >>jareds wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds >>> >>>Swapped EGT sensors in the exhaust boss today and I am still getting a >>>high EGT reading on the front cylinder on a 582 engine with only 60hrs. >>>RPM EGT Front EGT Rear >>>5760 1184 1117 >>>6180 1155 1097 >>> >>>Any ideas? >>> >>>Jared >>> >>> >>> > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:09 PM PST US From: "Randy Bortree" Subject: Kitfox-List: kitfox I info --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Bortree" > > what is the max gross weight on a kitfox I > > Randy > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:07 PM PST US From: Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jareds EGT's --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles What you have done is adjust for minor differences between the two cylinders. Actually the 582 is like two single cylinder engines sharing a common crank. each side of the crankcase is totally isolated from the other so each carb is totally dedicated to one cylinder only. Since the engine and carbs have usually not been blueprinted there will be very minor differences in air flow, fuel distribution, crankcase pressure, pressure loss through oil seals, etc between them. If each side was perfectly identical then the exact same opening would produce the exact same EGT. They don't so they aren't. The EGT is probably the best indicator of mixture, assuming the guages are reasonably accurate. Therefore the hotter cylinder is running leaner. The jets and needles are the most precise parts of the entire carb, the carb throats, slides, etc are just slightly cleaned up castings. The very minor changes in opening, and it should be minute, will even things up mixture and flow wise. I used to balance the Mikuni SUs, which in many respects are similar to the Bings with a piston slide and needle valve on the piston, on my 240 Z by measuring air flow through the carbs and adjusting the slides until the carbs matched. Ideally you would adjust airflow then adjust fuel flow to even the EGTs. Raising or dropping one needle seems a bit less precise to me, and, somehow offends my admittedly warped view of symmetry. (nb The 618 had such a large difference front to rear that the two carbs had totally differen't sets of jets) With Arctic Sparrow cockpit adjustable needles you could do both - balance airflow then adjust fuel flow till the EGTs matched. But that's my opinion, YMMV. I hope Mr Robertson will step in about now. Jerry Liles AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > >Darrel and Jerry, > I read your earlier post saying to adjust the carb linkage to bring the >two EGT's closer together. I don't question your knowledge on the 582 at all >but am having a senior moment and just can't see changing the slide position. >Maybe I'm about to learn something. > The way I see it, adjusting the linkage on one carb with actually throw >the carb sync out. You would be telling one cylinder to try and run faster >than the other. One carb would be sucking more/less air and the relationship of >the mid range jet would be different. > It seems to me that the two carb slides should be set exactly the same >with the linkage and different EGT adjustment would be accomplished with the >needle clips. That way, the air part of the fuel/air mixture is the same and >only the fuel part is changed. Jared indicates that his difference is at the mid >range. > Having said that, please educate me. As I said, it's early in Virginia >and I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet. > >Don Smythe >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:46 PM PST US From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Loss of Engine power! (Ray) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com Hello Ray. I had a problem with very rough running on my 912 UL. Very lucky I was not flying, in fact I had just changed the oil and filter. On start up - very difficult and could hardly keep the engine running smooth. At low RPM, it shuddered to a halt. In dismay, I thought it would be an electrical fault and would cost$$$ and for the life of me could not understand why! My wife, looking over my shoulder with a fresh pair of eyes suddenly points to the cross carburetor tube (aluminum) and asks why it is not connected at one end, where it meets the short hose, to connect it to one of the carbs. How could I have missed this? Sometimes you cannot see the wood for the trees I replaced the hose for a slightly longer piece, tightened the hose clamps and started the motor. The 912 and the Warp Drive fired up and spun very smoothly and I have a mental note now to check the security of a couple more items before flight. I don't know, but this could be the problem! Hope it doesn't cost too much to fix. Eric Ashman. Classic IV, Atlanta e-mail; ceashman@aol.com ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:10 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: kitfox I info --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Randy, The Model I had a 850# gross weight limit. Blue Skies John & Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy Bortree Subject: Kitfox-List: kitfox I info --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Bortree" > > what is the max gross weight on a kitfox I > > Randy > > ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:10 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Bruce, I do not know of any operating one on the IO-240 specifically. I'll do some checking. I do know of some that have them on the larger Lyc's. I'll do a little research... and get back to you. Blue Skies John & Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Lina Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Lina" John, Since you are the IVO guy, do you know anyone using one with an IO-240 . I need a new prop for better TO and climb perf. and instead of guessing at a pitch and having one made for a thousand bucks, I like the idea of tweaking the pitch to right where I want it. Thanks Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > Michel, > I'm a distributor for the IVO and know of several that are flying behind it > on a Kitfox. Personally.. I love the performance. I do not know of any Jab > powered Kitfox's flying the IVO. The IVO should work great on the 2200. > The Warp is also a great prop and I have flown several hours behind it. It > is tough to beat variable pitch props for performance.. unless of course you > go to constant speed. Of course IVO offers a electric constant speed > also... Haven't used it. > > > Blue Skies > John & Debra McBean > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > From: Mark Schindler [mtschindler@yahoo.com] > > Hope this answers your question: > > http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivepropfailure2.htm > > Yes Mark, and there is also: > http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/warpdrivefailure.htm > > Which is why, in my initial email I wrote: > >> I read on the internet that a lot of WarpDrive > >> props have lost a blade in flight. What would you advice me to do? > > So ... I don't know what to think: buy that WarpDrive prop or ... use more > money and buy an electrical variable pitch IvoProp. Somehow, I like the idea > of variable pitch. But ... is the IvoProp worth the expense? Any Kitfox with > Jabiru 2200 and IvoProp around? What do you think, guys? > > Cheers, > Michel > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:17 PM PST US From: "Bruce Harrington" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jareds EGT's --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" One other thing to consider: the rear cylinder intakes thru the rotary valve slightly different than the front cylinder. The rear has the valve open at the bottom of the intake hole. The front at the top. I suspect this causes some difference in the intake flow. bh > What you have done is adjust for minor differences between the two > cylinders. Actually the 582 is like two single cylinder engines sharing > a common crank. each side of the crankcase is totally isolated from the > other so each carb is totally dedicated to one cylinder only. Since the > engine and carbs have usually not been blueprinted there will be very > minor differences in air flow, fuel distribution, crankcase pressure, > pressure loss through oil seals, etc between them. If each side was > perfectly identical then the exact same opening would produce the exact > same EGT. They don't so they aren't. The EGT is probably the best > indicator of mixture, assuming the guages are reasonably accurate. > Therefore the hotter cylinder is running leaner. The jets and needles > are the most precise parts of the entire carb, the carb throats, slides, > etc are just slightly cleaned up castings. The very minor changes in > opening, and it should be minute, will even things up mixture and flow > wise. I used to balance the Mikuni SUs, which in many respects are > similar to the Bings with a piston slide and needle valve on the piston, > on my 240 Z by measuring air flow through the carbs and adjusting the > slides until the carbs matched. Ideally you would adjust airflow then > adjust fuel flow to even the EGTs. Raising or dropping one needle seems > a bit less precise to me, and, somehow offends my admittedly warped view > of symmetry. (nb The 618 had such a large difference front to rear > that the two carbs had totally differen't sets of jets) With Arctic > Sparrow cockpit adjustable needles you could do both - balance airflow > then adjust fuel flow till the EGTs matched. But that's my opinion, > YMMV. I hope Mr Robertson will step in about now. > > Jerry Liles