---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/29/04: 39 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:59 AM - SV: WarpDrive propeller (Michel Verheughe) 2. 01:06 AM - SV: Jareds EGT's (Michel Verheughe) 3. 01:15 AM - SV: Flaperson Adjustment (Michel Verheughe) 4. 01:27 AM - (Off topic) Extreme sport (Michel Verheughe) 5. 04:17 AM - Any A&P's on list!!!! Question??? (Gill Levesque) 6. 06:34 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net (Lowell Fitt) 7. 06:43 AM - Re: Any A&P's on list!!!! Question??? (Rick) 8. 07:30 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (jdmcbean) 9. 08:35 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net (Steve Cooper) 10. 08:46 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (Steve Cooper) 11. 08:56 AM - Re: SV: Jareds EGT's (jareds) 12. 09:00 AM - Addendum: Jareds EGT's (jareds) 13. 09:02 AM - Clutch in 582 (jareds) 14. 09:32 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (jdmcbean) 15. 10:34 AM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (Marc Arseneault) 16. 11:33 AM - WarpDrive (Michel) (Scott McClintock) 17. 11:37 AM - WarpDrive Props (Michael Gibbs) 18. 11:48 AM - Re: WarpDrive (Michel) (Mark Schindler) 19. 11:50 AM - Re: (Off topic) Extreme sport (Scott McClintock) 20. 12:38 PM - Re: WarpDrive (Mark) (Scott McClintock) 21. 12:58 PM - Re: Clutch in 582 (Michel Verheughe) 22. 01:17 PM - Re: Clutch in 582 (Mark Schindler) 23. 01:19 PM - Re: Clutch in 582 (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 24. 01:54 PM - Re: Clutch in 582 (Michel Verheughe) 25. 02:05 PM - Re: Clutch in 582 (jareds) 26. 02:39 PM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (Michel Verheughe) 27. 02:41 PM - Re: SV: Jareds EGT's (Michel Verheughe) 28. 02:51 PM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (Michel Verheughe) 29. 05:12 PM - Re: WarpDrive (Michel) (John E. King) 30. 05:38 PM - Re: WarpDrive Props (Michel) (John E. King) 31. 05:56 PM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (Lowell Fitt) 32. 05:56 PM - Re: SV: Flaperson Adjustment (Jerry Liles) 33. 06:01 PM - Re: Addendum: Jareds EGT's (Jerry Liles) 34. 06:10 PM - Re: Clutch in 582 (Jerry Liles) 35. 07:19 PM - Flaperon control reversal (jimshumaker) 36. 07:26 PM - Re: Flaperson Adjustment (jimshumaker) 37. 07:50 PM - Rotax 912 test lever (jimshumaker) 38. 09:39 PM - Re: Clutch in 582 (jareds) 39. 10:16 PM - Re: WarpDrive propeller (Marc Arseneault) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:59:48 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Thank you everyone for your answers about the Warp Drive. I won't answer each of you separately it would clutter the list. I also think I started a flame here but ... it is good to see that people get passionate with their props. :-) > From: Lowell Fitt [lcfitt@inreach.com] > Only one thought on this one from me. And that is why is the guy selling > the Warp with the Jab hub lay-out. Is there something better, or is he not > happy with it for other reasons. That is indeed the question I try to find out, Lowell. He says "they don't need it anymore." I understand it was used on their club's plane. But let me sumerize what has been said here: The negative comments found on the internet are old. The service provided by Warp Drive is outstanding. And ... it can be fitted as a in-flight variable pitch. But I didn't find any info on the latter. Did I miss something? Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:17 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Jareds EGT's --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe ... just my two cents ... no, make that one cent, on the subject. I also worried about my asymetrical EGT and hot values. Until someone told me: Check your plugs. If they are light chocolate brown, you're just fine. Cheers, Michel - still a novice. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:15:49 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Flaperson Adjustment --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: kerrjohna@comcast.net > you will probably get a lot of input on this, but one of the reasons for nice handling > of the kitfox is the differential aileron effect, But not for models 1, 2 and 3, isn't it, John? I do have adverse yaw in my model 3. One thing I wonder about: My flaps setting is maximum 10 degrees. A very conservative setting from the constructor as it is far from the 22 degrees the POH says it would reverse the aileron control. But I have a French friend who flies a Savannah, which also has flaperons and his flaps settings are 0, 20 and 40 degrees. My question is then: How can that plane still control rolls at 40 degrees flaperon and not the Kitfox? Another thing: Yesterday my son flew his first solo in my Kitfox. As the instructor and I watched him do touch and go, we noticed that, at the very moment the wheels leave the ground, that the plane tilts to the right. I guess it is the engine torque of my 582. Do you guys experience the same thing? Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:50 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: (Off topic) Extreme sport --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Scott McClintock [scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us] > Michel, > I've been called (and accused) of being a lot of things, but "sweet" has > never been one of them! :-) Of course, Scott, but, here in Norway, we practice an extreme sport that consists in calling bikers - especially the Harley-Davidson types - for "cute" and "sweet." We often end up in the hospital but it sure gives us a kick of adrenaline that makes it worth it! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:04 AM PST US From: Gill Levesque Subject: Kitfox-List: Any A&P's on list!!!! Question??? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque I want to replace my stab struts with 1/2 in. .035 ,4130 tubing!! Do I need to heat the tubing to flatten the ends and then torch weld the edges? .Or can I cold flatten then weld ? I know that grinding the weld is a NO! , but can you file a rough weld? Thanks for any reply!! Gil Still alive and flyin!!!! Gil --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:55 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Sorry, I guess I would want to know the reason he is selling his prop - why is he unhappy with it. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > I don't follow your question Lowell. > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lowell Fitt" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > > > Only one thought on this one from me. And that is why is the guy selling > > the Warp with the Jab hub lay-out. Is there something better, or is he > not > > happy with it for other reasons. > > > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Cooper" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net > > > > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com > > > > > > > > It shows how one person bent on harming someone..or some company can > do > > so > > > > with impunity. This is wrong .... > > > > > > > > I believe in free speach....but? > > > > > > > > How many Warp drives were not sold due to this guys behaviour? A good > > > > product, good people and thier jobs adversly affect? > > > > > > > > I dont use Warp Drive..... but, I have a lot of great reports and > have > > > seen > > > > many many people use them and are very happy.. I hear they are very > > > strong > > > > and effecient.... the only concideration, and Warp will quide you, is > > > using the > > > > correct Box.... > > > > > > > > I use an IVO because its lighter.... > > > > > > > > If you can,go to a fly in, walk around, ask questions, touchy feely > > > ...better > > > > than internet! > > > > > > > > Enjoy.... fly safe! > > > > > > > > Dave KF 2 > > > > > > Great advice...that's what I did. Take a look around and see what people > > are > > > flying. Sometimes it's better to get your head out (hehehe) of the > > internet > > > to see what's REALLY truthful. You begin to understand that a lot of > what > > is > > > said on the net is nothing more than downright slander. > > > > > > Steve Cooper > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:24 AM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Any A&P's on list!!!! Question??? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" Not an A&P but heat cherry red bend slow weld and allow to cool slow as well. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gill Levesque To: kitfox-list@matronics.com.0.0.PLING_QUERY.Subject.has.exclamation.mark.a nd.question.mark Subject: Kitfox-List: Any A&P's on list!!!! Question??? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque I want to replace my stab struts with 1/2 in. .035 ,4130 tubing!! Do I need to heat the tubing to flatten the ends and then torch weld the edges? .Or can I cold flatten then weld ? I know that grinding the weld is a NO! , but can you file a rough weld? Thanks for any reply!! Gil Still alive and flyin!!!! Gil --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:22 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Michel, The Warp Drive is an excellent prop and great service. Warp to the best of my knowledge does not have an in-flight adjustable option. There are other hubs... Prop Link, NSI CAP 140, Airmaster, etc. that can utilize the Warp Blades. Bang for the buck.. IVO is going to be hard to beat. Blue Skies John & Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Thank you everyone for your answers about the Warp Drive. I won't answer each of you separately it would clutter the list. I also think I started a flame here but ... it is good to see that people get passionate with their props. :-) > From: Lowell Fitt [lcfitt@inreach.com] > Only one thought on this one from me. And that is why is the guy selling > the Warp with the Jab hub lay-out. Is there something better, or is he not > happy with it for other reasons. That is indeed the question I try to find out, Lowell. He says "they don't need it anymore." I understand it was used on their club's plane. But let me sumerize what has been said here: The negative comments found on the internet are old. The service provided by Warp Drive is outstanding. And ... it can be fitted as a in-flight variable pitch. But I didn't find any info on the latter. Did I miss something? Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:48 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Ahh, Sure. Absolutely. You know, one of the things I look for on a used Warp blade are repairs. Those rock chips can be easily repaired on a Warp and some are almost impossible to detect...but I like to know the environment a prop was used in. As far as the hub goes...you need to be certain it is the new style if it's going on a direct drive engine. Any problems found in a used prop and Warp will be glad to work with you to get them resolved. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > Sorry, I guess I would want to know the reason he is selling his prop - > why is he unhappy with it. > > Lowell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Cooper" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > > > I don't follow your question Lowell. > > > > Steve > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lowell Fitt" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > > > > > Only one thought on this one from me. And that is why is the guy > selling > > > the Warp with the Jab hub lay-out. Is there something better, or is he > > not > > > happy with it for other reasons. > > > > > > Lowell > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Steve Cooper" > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the net > > > > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: > > > > To: > > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller That dark side of the > net > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com > > > > > > > > > > It shows how one person bent on harming someone..or some company can > > do > > > so > > > > > with impunity. This is wrong .... > > > > > > > > > > I believe in free speach....but? > > > > > > > > > > How many Warp drives were not sold due to this guys behaviour? A > good > > > > > product, good people and thier jobs adversly affect? > > > > > > > > > > I dont use Warp Drive..... but, I have a lot of great reports and > > have > > > > seen > > > > > many many people use them and are very happy.. I hear they are > very > > > > strong > > > > > and effecient.... the only concideration, and Warp will quide you, > is > > > > using the > > > > > correct Box.... > > > > > > > > > > I use an IVO because its lighter.... > > > > > > > > > > If you can,go to a fly in, walk around, ask questions, touchy feely > > > > ...better > > > > > than internet! > > > > > > > > > > Enjoy.... fly safe! > > > > > > > > > > Dave KF 2 > > > > > > > > Great advice...that's what I did. Take a look around and see what > people > > > are > > > > flying. Sometimes it's better to get your head out (hehehe) of the > > > internet > > > > to see what's REALLY truthful. You begin to understand that a lot of > > what > > > is > > > > said on the net is nothing more than downright slander. > > > > > > > > Steve Cooper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:54 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Please keep in mind that the in-flight adjustable prop will not be allowed on an aircraft registered Experimental Light Sport Aircraft (ELSA) when the new Sport Pilot rules come out. Even if the plane is already registered as Experimental Amateur Built, a Sport Pilot would not be allowed to fly it (even if the plane meets the catagory requirements in every other wayie Gross weight, Cruise, stall) At least the NPRM was written that way. It would reduce the dollar value of the aircraft...Something to keep in mind maybe. That is one of the reasons I sold my IVO in-flight adjustable prop to Chris Bolken. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > Michel, > The Warp Drive is an excellent prop and great service. Warp to the best of > my knowledge does not have an in-flight adjustable option. There are other > hubs... Prop Link, NSI CAP 140, Airmaster, etc. that can utilize the Warp > Blades. Bang for the buck.. IVO is going to be hard to beat. > > Blue Skies > John & Debra McBean > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Thank you everyone for your answers about the Warp Drive. I won't answer > each of you separately it would clutter the list. I also think I started a > flame here but ... it is good to see that people get passionate with their > props. :-) > > > From: Lowell Fitt [lcfitt@inreach.com] > > Only one thought on this one from me. And that is why is the guy selling > > the Warp with the Jab hub lay-out. Is there something better, or is he > not > > happy with it for other reasons. > > That is indeed the question I try to find out, Lowell. He says "they don't > need it anymore." I understand it was used on their club's plane. > But let me sumerize what has been said here: The negative comments found on > the internet are old. The service provided by Warp Drive is outstanding. And > ... it can be fitted as a in-flight variable pitch. But I didn't find any > info on the latter. > Did I miss something? > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:37 AM PST US From: jareds Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Jareds EGT's --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds Wow, Lots of good input and some good explanations. Can't believe this wasnt' a hot topic in past discussions but it's good to bring it up for new people joining. Synopsis: From what i have gathered..... since both cylinders are really just a seperate engine on 1 crank then rather than doing something drastic like re jetting or adjusting the clip, it sounds like just opening the slide a hair as someone put it would probobly even the temps out! My plug color is on the lighter side of tan. Just like my old shovel head harley choppers burn. Although i did not look close, there might be a slight variation in color between plugs but again they are brand new plugs with little time on them. If i can open the slide just a hair on front cylinder, maybe it will drop down near the other one! Chime in if i percieved the comments wrong? Michel Verheughe wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > >... just my two cents ... no, make that one cent, on the subject. >I also worried about my asymetrical EGT and hot values. Until someone told me: Check your plugs. If they are light chocolate brown, you're just fine. > >Cheers, >Michel - still a novice. > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:16 AM PST US From: jareds Subject: Kitfox-List: Addendum: Jareds EGT's --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds Should i worry about one cylinder loading up at all or that popping because one cylinder is loading up or will a slight adjustment to the slide to even things out only make it run smoother? Jerry Liles wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles > >What you have done is adjust for minor differences between the two >cylinders. Actually the 582 is like two single cylinder engines sharing >a common crank. each side of the crankcase is totally isolated from the >other so each carb is totally dedicated to one cylinder only. Since the >engine and carbs have usually not been blueprinted there will be very >minor differences in air flow, fuel distribution, crankcase pressure, >pressure loss through oil seals, etc between them. If each side was >perfectly identical then the exact same opening would produce the exact >same EGT. They don't so they aren't. The EGT is probably the best >indicator of mixture, assuming the guages are reasonably accurate. >Therefore the hotter cylinder is running leaner. The jets and needles >are the most precise parts of the entire carb, the carb throats, slides, >etc are just slightly cleaned up castings. The very minor changes in >opening, and it should be minute, will even things up mixture and flow >wise. I used to balance the Mikuni SUs, which in many respects are >similar to the Bings with a piston slide and needle valve on the piston, >on my 240 Z by measuring air flow through the carbs and adjusting the >slides until the carbs matched. Ideally you would adjust airflow then >adjust fuel flow to even the EGTs. Raising or dropping one needle seems >a bit less precise to me, and, somehow offends my admittedly warped view >of symmetry. (nb The 618 had such a large difference front to rear >that the two carbs had totally differen't sets of jets) With Arctic >Sparrow cockpit adjustable needles you could do both - balance airflow >then adjust fuel flow till the EGTs matched. But that's my opinion, >YMMV. I hope Mr Robertson will step in about now. > >Jerry Liles > >AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: > > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com >> >>Darrel and Jerry, >> I read your earlier post saying to adjust the carb linkage to bring the >>two EGT's closer together. I don't question your knowledge on the 582 at all >>but am having a senior moment and just can't see changing the slide position. >>Maybe I'm about to learn something. >> The way I see it, adjusting the linkage on one carb with actually throw >>the carb sync out. You would be telling one cylinder to try and run faster >>than the other. One carb would be sucking more/less air and the relationship of >>the mid range jet would be different. >> It seems to me that the two carb slides should be set exactly the same >>with the linkage and different EGT adjustment would be accomplished with the >>needle clips. That way, the air part of the fuel/air mixture is the same and >>only the fuel part is changed. Jared indicates that his difference is at the mid >>range. >> Having said that, please educate me. As I said, it's early in Virginia >>and I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet. >> >>Don Smythe >>DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:42 AM PST US From: jareds Subject: Kitfox-List: Clutch in 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds I have a C gearbox with a clutch in it. I NEVER see anyone on the list with one or any comments for that matter. How do you check for wear after a years flights or at how many hours? Also i've adjusted my idle to around 2100 and was wondering if there is a slight spin of prop due to centrifical force or whether those of you that have a clutch have a motionless prop? Jared Jerry Liles wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles > >What you have done is adjust for minor differences between the two >cylinders. Actually the 582 is like two single cylinder engines sharing >a common crank. each side of the crankcase is totally isolated from the >other so each carb is totally dedicated to one cylinder only. Since the >engine and carbs have usually not been blueprinted there will be very >minor differences in air flow, fuel distribution, crankcase pressure, >pressure loss through oil seals, etc between them. If each side was >perfectly identical then the exact same opening would produce the exact >same EGT. They don't so they aren't. The EGT is probably the best >indicator of mixture, assuming the guages are reasonably accurate. >Therefore the hotter cylinder is running leaner. The jets and needles >are the most precise parts of the entire carb, the carb throats, slides, >etc are just slightly cleaned up castings. The very minor changes in >opening, and it should be minute, will even things up mixture and flow >wise. I used to balance the Mikuni SUs, which in many respects are >similar to the Bings with a piston slide and needle valve on the piston, >on my 240 Z by measuring air flow through the carbs and adjusting the >slides until the carbs matched. Ideally you would adjust airflow then >adjust fuel flow to even the EGTs. Raising or dropping one needle seems >a bit less precise to me, and, somehow offends my admittedly warped view >of symmetry. (nb The 618 had such a large difference front to rear >that the two carbs had totally differen't sets of jets) With Arctic >Sparrow cockpit adjustable needles you could do both - balance airflow >then adjust fuel flow till the EGTs matched. But that's my opinion, >YMMV. I hope Mr Robertson will step in about now. > >Jerry Liles > >AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: > > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com >> >>Darrel and Jerry, >> I read your earlier post saying to adjust the carb linkage to bring the >>two EGT's closer together. I don't question your knowledge on the 582 at all >>but am having a senior moment and just can't see changing the slide position. >>Maybe I'm about to learn something. >> The way I see it, adjusting the linkage on one carb with actually throw >>the carb sync out. You would be telling one cylinder to try and run faster >>than the other. One carb would be sucking more/less air and the relationship of >>the mid range jet would be different. >> It seems to me that the two carb slides should be set exactly the same >>with the linkage and different EGT adjustment would be accomplished with the >>needle clips. That way, the air part of the fuel/air mixture is the same and >>only the fuel part is changed. Jared indicates that his difference is at the mid >>range. >> Having said that, please educate me. As I said, it's early in Virginia >>and I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet. >> >>Don Smythe >>DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:41 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" The props can be changed very easy.... Blue Skies John & Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Cooper Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Please keep in mind that the in-flight adjustable prop will not be allowed on an aircraft registered Experimental Light Sport Aircraft (ELSA) when the new Sport Pilot rules come out. Even if the plane is already registered as Experimental Amateur Built, a Sport Pilot would not be allowed to fly it (even if the plane meets the catagory requirements in every other wayie Gross weight, Cruise, stall) At least the NPRM was written that way. It would reduce the dollar value of the aircraft...Something to keep in mind maybe. That is one of the reasons I sold my IVO in-flight adjustable prop to Chris Bolken. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > Michel, > The Warp Drive is an excellent prop and great service. Warp to the best of > my knowledge does not have an in-flight adjustable option. There are other > hubs... Prop Link, NSI CAP 140, Airmaster, etc. that can utilize the Warp > Blades. Bang for the buck.. IVO is going to be hard to beat. > > Blue Skies > John & Debra McBean > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Thank you everyone for your answers about the Warp Drive. I won't answer > each of you separately it would clutter the list. I also think I started a > flame here but ... it is good to see that people get passionate with their > props. :-) > > > From: Lowell Fitt [lcfitt@inreach.com] > > Only one thought on this one from me. And that is why is the guy selling > > the Warp with the Jab hub lay-out. Is there something better, or is he > not > > happy with it for other reasons. > > That is indeed the question I try to find out, Lowell. He says "they don't > need it anymore." I understand it was used on their club's plane. > But let me sumerize what has been said here: The negative comments found on > the internet are old. The service provided by Warp Drive is outstanding. And > ... it can be fitted as a in-flight variable pitch. But I didn't find any > info on the latter. > Did I miss something? > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:58 AM PST US From: "Marc Arseneault" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" Michel, I forgot to mention that Warp drive doesn't make the in-flight adjustable themselves but as Johnmentionned you can purchase an in-flight adjustable hub and blades from the places John mentionned. Warp drive's view onthis when I asked why they don't makethem was we get to sell our blades to these guys and we are happy with that. Everybody gets a little piece of the cake! Best Regards, Marc Arseneault Ontario Canada From: "jdmcbean" jdmcbean@cableone.net Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:30:03 -0600 -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" jdmcbean@cableone.net Michel, The Warp Drive is an excellent prop and great service. Warp to the best of my knowledge does not have an in-flight adjustable option. There are other hubs... Prop Link, NSI CAP 140, Airmaste r, etc. that can utilize the Warp Blades. Bang for the buck.. IVO is going to be hard to beat. Blue Skies John Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller -- Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe michel@online.no Thank you everyone for your answers about the Warp Drive. I won't answer each of you separately it would clutter the list. I also think I started a flame here but ... it is good to see that people get passionate with their props. :-) From: Lowell Fitt [lcfitt@inreach.com] Only one thought on this one from me. And that is why is the guy selling the Warp with the Jab hub lay-out. Is there something better, or is he not happy with it for other reasons. That is indeed the question I tr ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:32 AM PST US From: Scott McClintock Subject: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive (Michel) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock But let me sumerize what has been said here: The negative comments found on the internet are old. The service provided by Warp Drive is outstanding. And ... it can be fitted as a in-flight variable pitch. But I didn't find any info on the latter. Did I miss something? Michel, Warp Drive just makes the props and hubs. To get the in-flight adjustment capability, you must go to NSI or another that produces a similar system. I have a NSI CAP 140 which I really like. There are others out there, electrically and hydraulically actuated. My two cents - Scott in Nome DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:20 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive Props --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs Michel, I have an Ivo medium prop on my 912S-powered Kitfox and find it to be very smooth in flight and offer amazing performance. We recently had an opportunity to see just how strong this prop is when a local Vixen's nosewheel collapsed on landing. The aircraft came to rest ON THE PROP BLADES--the cowling never touched the ground! There was substantial damage to the motor mounts and forward fuselage tubing and the prop is toast, but I think that is quite a testament to the design and engineering of that prop. I've flown both fixed and variable pitch props. Given a choice I would never put a fixed pitch prop on my plane--it would be like having a car with only one gear. Mike G. N728KF ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:57 AM PST US From: Mark Schindler Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive (Michel) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler Scott How much weight is your adjustable pitch setup? Are you running it on Jabiru? Mark Scott McClintock wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock But let me sumerize what has been said here: The negative comments found on the internet are old. The service provided by Warp Drive is outstanding. And ... it can be fitted as a in-flight variable pitch. But I didn't find any info on the latter. Did I miss something? Michel, Warp Drive just makes the props and hubs. To get the in-flight adjustment capability, you must go to NSI or another that produces a similar system. I have a NSI CAP 140 which I really like. There are others out there, electrically and hydraulically actuated. My two cents - Scott in Nome DO NOT ARCHIVE --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:07 AM PST US From: Scott McClintock Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: (Off topic) Extreme sport --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock Michel, That is truly an "Extreme Sport" you guys got there! Isn't flying dangerous enuf' for you? If you tried that little trick over here in the "good 'ol USA" you'd end up with more of an adrenaline rush than you'd bargained for. It would be an extremely SHORT, one time only rush though, followed by that trip to those "Pearly Gates" Can you say "Dirt Nap"? Scott in Nome DO NOT ARCHIVE Michel Verheughe wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > From: Scott McClintock [scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us] > > Michel, > > I've been called (and accused) of being a lot of things, but "sweet" has > > never been one of them! :-) > > Of course, Scott, but, here in Norway, we practice an extreme sport that consists in calling bikers - especially the Harley-Davidson types - for "cute" and "sweet." > We often end up in the hospital but it sure gives us a kick of adrenaline that makes it worth it! :-) > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:20 PM PST US From: Scott McClintock Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive (Mark) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock Mark, I don't have my documents with me in my work office, but you can get that from NSI on their webpage. I'm powered by a (matching) NSI EA-81 (Soob) with fuel injection. A nice, powerful combination. Scott in Nome Mark Schindler wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler > > Scott > > How much weight is your adjustable pitch setup? Are you running it on Jabiru? > > Mark > > Scott McClintock wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock > > But let me sumerize what has been said here: The negative comments found > on the internet are old. The service provided by Warp > Drive is outstanding. And ... it can be fitted as a in-flight variable > pitch. But I didn't find any info on the latter. > Did I miss something? > > Michel, > Warp Drive just makes the props and hubs. To get the in-flight > adjustment capability, you must go to NSI or another that produces a > similar system. > I have a NSI CAP 140 which I really like. There are others out there, > electrically and hydraulically actuated. > > My two cents - Scott in Nome > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > --------------------------------- > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:40 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clutch in 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe jareds wrote: > Also i've adjusted my idle to around 2100 and was wondering if there is > a slight spin of prop due to centrifical force or whether those of you > that have a clutch have a motionless prop? I have never opened my C gearbox, Jared, but someone who did told me that, that clutch is the mother of all clutches, slipping only to prevent damaging the crankshaft if your prop hits something. I don't thing it can slip due to centrifugal force. But don't take my word on it, I am only a novice and a bad listener! :-) Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:02 PM PST US From: Mark Schindler Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clutch in 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler I think Jared is talking about a prop clutch - which replaces parts of the original C gear box. Prop is engaged when RPM cetrifugal force expends the "shoes" which contact and engage the prop. I was going to installed one on my 582 but I did convert to Jabiru. Still think it's a great idea. Mark Michel Verheughe wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe jareds wrote: > Also i've adjusted my idle to around 2100 and was wondering if there is > a slight spin of prop due to centrifical force or whether those of you > that have a clutch have a motionless prop? I have never opened my C gearbox, Jared, but someone who did told me that, that clutch is the mother of all clutches, slipping only to prevent damaging the crankshaft if your prop hits something. I don't thing it can slip due to centrifugal force. But don't take my word on it, I am only a novice and a bad listener! :-) Cheers, Michel --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:46 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clutch in 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Jared/Michel, see below jareds wrote: > > > Also i've adjusted my idle to around 2100 and was wondering if there is > > a slight spin of prop due to centrifical force or whether those of you > > that have a clutch have a motionless prop? > > I have never opened my C gearbox, Jared, but someone who did told me that, > that > clutch is the mother of all clutches, slipping only to prevent damaging the > crankshaft if your prop hits something. I don't thing it can slip due to > centrifugal force. But don't take my word on it, I am only a novice and a > bad > listener! :-) > > Cheers, > Michel > Jared, You might find you don't need to set the RPM's that high for Idle (especially with the clutch). BTW, my RPM's sneaked up to about 2200 after my overhaul. It caused a float/landing problem and I had to move them back down. Michel, Wrong Clutch...Jared has the add on clutch that prevents the prop from turning at low RPM's. You are talking about the coned sleeve inside the C box (I think) Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:38 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clutch in 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: > Michel, > Wrong Clutch...Jared has the add on clutch that prevents the prop from > turning at low RPM's. You are talking about the coned sleeve inside the C box > (I think) Oops! Right, Don and Mark. I said I was a bad listener! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:04 PM PST US From: jareds Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clutch in 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds Don's right and i do need to drop my rpms a bit. I just did not know how to check for wear or what maintenance was required. AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > >Jared/Michel, >see below > > >jareds wrote: > > >>>Also i've adjusted my idle to around 2100 and was wondering if there is >>>a slight spin of prop due to centrifical force or whether those of you >>>that have a clutch have a motionless prop? >>> >>> >>I have never opened my C gearbox, Jared, but someone who did told me that, >>that >>clutch is the mother of all clutches, slipping only to prevent damaging the >>crankshaft if your prop hits something. I don't thing it can slip due to >>centrifugal force. But don't take my word on it, I am only a novice and a >>bad >>listener! :-) >> >>Cheers, >>Michel >> >> >> > >Jared, > You might find you don't need to set the RPM's that high for Idle >(especially with the clutch). BTW, my RPM's sneaked up to about 2200 after my >overhaul. It caused a float/landing problem and I had to move them back down. > >Michel, > Wrong Clutch...Jared has the add on clutch that prevents the prop from >turning at low RPM's. You are talking about the coned sleeve inside the C box >(I think) > >Don Smythe >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:49 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Marc Arseneault wrote: > I forgot to mention that Warp drive doesn't make the in-flight adjustable themselves but as John mentionned you can purchase an in-flight adjustable hub and blades from the places John mentionned. Again, thanks everyone. My learning curve is slow but with the help of this list ... I'll understand, one day! NSI CAP 140, right? That's another word you guys have been using and ... I never dared to ask what you were talking about. Now I know a little bit more. :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:37 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Jareds EGT's --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe jareds wrote: > My plug color is on the lighter side of tan. ... Ok, you stand me corrected, I meant: A pale milk chocolate colour, then! :-) Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:11 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Lowell Fitt wrote: > Sorry, I guess I would want to know the reason he is selling his prop - > why is he unhappy with it. Thank you for your interest, Lowell. Here is the answer of the seller: They used the prop on the club's plane, a TL-132 Condor. They don't use it any more because of the shape of the engine cowling that gives a too poor cooling. It's a 65 inches, tapered tips, two-bladed prop that - he says - would fit nicely a Jabiru 2200 engine. What do you think? Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:48 PM PST US From: "John E. King " Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive (Michel) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " Scott, PropLink is a variable pitch hub (both mechanical & hydraulic versions) that can also be fitted with WarpDrive blades. -- John King Warrenton, VA Scott McClintock wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock > >But let me sumerize what has been said here: The negative comments found >on the internet are old. The service provided by Warp >Drive is outstanding. And ... it can be fitted as a in-flight variable >pitch. But I didn't find any info on the latter. >Did I miss something? > >Michel, >Warp Drive just makes the props and hubs. To get the in-flight >adjustment capability, you must go to NSI or another that produces a >similar system. >I have a NSI CAP 140 which I really like. There are others out there, >electrically and hydraulically actuated. > >My two cents - Scott in Nome > > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:19 PM PST US From: "John E. King " Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive Props (Michel) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " Don, We had a similar experience on the 2002 Alaska trip. One of our Kitfoxes also ran over a taxi light at Bettles Airport in Alaska. Damaged the tips on all three blades. We cut off four inches on each blade, balanced the baldes/hub on a nail, and it worked great. Had to increase the prop pitch to make up for the shorter blades. -- John King Warrenton, VA AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > >I've never had to replace any yet, but they tell me that if you booger >one up, you only need to replace the single bad blade. They (WarpDrive) >just need the serial number of the bad one to send you a weight matched >replacement. Pretty cool, huh? >I'm > > There is one really bad thing about the Warp Drive Prop that I feel is >unforgivable. When I hit a runway light last year with my warp, it splintered >the tip on one blade and made a small dent on the second tip. The third tip >was unharmed. Can you imagine that?????? Should have seen what it did to the >runway light. > The good part is, Warp took the prop back and reconditioned all three >blades for $80 bucks (US). Can't beat that. > >Happy Warp Drive customer, >Don Smythe >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > >_ > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:58 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Michel, I am pleasantly flattered that you would solicit my opinion on this one, but I have to step aside as I have zero experience with direct drive except during my C-170B days. I have a Warp drive - hub and blades on my Model IV, though, and am quite happy with it. That's the best I can do. I do have a lot of confidence in the opinions expressed. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Lowell Fitt wrote: > > Sorry, I guess I would want to know the reason he is selling his prop - > > why is he unhappy with it. > > Thank you for your interest, Lowell. Here is the answer of the seller: > > They used the prop on the club's plane, a TL-132 Condor. They don't use it any > more because of the shape of the engine cowling that gives a too poor cooling. > It's a 65 inches, tapered tips, two-bladed prop that - he says - would fit > nicely a Jabiru 2200 engine. > What do you think? > > Cheers, > Michel > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:58 PM PST US From: Jerry Liles Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Flaperson Adjustment --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles Michale you are correct. Kitfox models I through III used a flapperon mixer bellcrank arrangement with very little differential action in the flight position and with even negative (reverse?) differential when the flaps were deployed. This becomes particularly noticable below about 10 deg flaps which is why a lot of Foxflyers don't use flaps. The advantage of the older setup was the flapperon control rods did not have to be disconnected when folding the wings and the flapperons automatically went to the stowed position as the wings were folded. John Larsen, who posts here occassionally, came up with a linkage modification for the Avid version that provided some differential action and improved control response with flaps deployed. The Model IV Fox has an entirely different mixer for the flapperons. All Foxes and Avids have adverse yaw, just some models have more than others. Basically you can't fly one of these airplanes smoothly without using your feet. Jerry Liles Michel Verheughe wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > >>From: kerrjohna@comcast.net >>you will probably get a lot of input on this, but one of the reasons for nice handling >>of the kitfox is the differential aileron effect, >> >> > >But not for models 1, 2 and 3, isn't it, John? I do have adverse yaw in my model 3. >One thing I wonder about: My flaps setting is maximum 10 degrees. A very conservative setting from the constructor as it is far from the 22 degrees the POH says it would reverse the aileron control. But I have a French friend who flies a Savannah, which also has flaperons and his flaps settings are 0, 20 and 40 degrees. My question is then: How can that plane still control rolls at 40 degrees flaperon and not the Kitfox? > >Another thing: Yesterday my son flew his first solo in my Kitfox. As the instructor and I watched him do touch and go, we noticed that, at the very moment the wheels leave the ground, that the plane tilts to the right. I guess it is the engine torque of my 582. Do you guys experience the same thing? > >Cheers, >Michel > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:49 PM PST US From: Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Addendum: Jareds EGT's --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles Jared, I think you are so close to being balanced already that any adjustment is going to be to small to make that kind of difference. jareds wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds > >Should i worry about one cylinder loading up at all or that popping >because one cylinder is loading up or will a slight adjustment to the >slide to even things out only make it run smoother? > > >Jerry Liles wrote: > > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles >> >>What you have done is adjust for minor differences between the two >>cylinders. Actually the 582 is like two single cylinder engines sharing >>a common crank. each side of the crankcase is totally isolated from the >>other so each carb is totally dedicated to one cylinder only. Since the >>engine and carbs have usually not been blueprinted there will be very >>minor differences in air flow, fuel distribution, crankcase pressure, >>pressure loss through oil seals, etc between them. If each side was >>perfectly identical then the exact same opening would produce the exact >>same EGT. They don't so they aren't. The EGT is probably the best >>indicator of mixture, assuming the guages are reasonably accurate. >>Therefore the hotter cylinder is running leaner. The jets and needles >>are the most precise parts of the entire carb, the carb throats, slides, >>etc are just slightly cleaned up castings. The very minor changes in >>opening, and it should be minute, will even things up mixture and flow >>wise. I used to balance the Mikuni SUs, which in many respects are >>similar to the Bings with a piston slide and needle valve on the piston, >>on my 240 Z by measuring air flow through the carbs and adjusting the >>slides until the carbs matched. Ideally you would adjust airflow then >>adjust fuel flow to even the EGTs. Raising or dropping one needle seems >>a bit less precise to me, and, somehow offends my admittedly warped view >>of symmetry. (nb The 618 had such a large difference front to rear >>that the two carbs had totally differen't sets of jets) With Arctic >>Sparrow cockpit adjustable needles you could do both - balance airflow >>then adjust fuel flow till the EGTs matched. But that's my opinion, >>YMMV. I hope Mr Robertson will step in about now. >> >>Jerry Liles >> >>AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com >>> >>>Darrel and Jerry, >>> I read your earlier post saying to adjust the carb linkage to bring the >>>two EGT's closer together. I don't question your knowledge on the 582 at all >>>but am having a senior moment and just can't see changing the slide position. >>>Maybe I'm about to learn something. >>> The way I see it, adjusting the linkage on one carb with actually throw >>>the carb sync out. You would be telling one cylinder to try and run faster >>>than the other. One carb would be sucking more/less air and the relationship of >>>the mid range jet would be different. >>> It seems to me that the two carb slides should be set exactly the same >>>with the linkage and different EGT adjustment would be accomplished with the >>>needle clips. That way, the air part of the fuel/air mixture is the same and >>>only the fuel part is changed. Jared indicates that his difference is at the mid >>>range. >>> Having said that, please educate me. As I said, it's early in Virginia >>>and I haven't had my first cup of coffee yet. >>> >>>Don Smythe >>>DO NOT ARCHIVE >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:03 PM PST US From: Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clutch in 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles Jared I have the clutch on Tootie Mae. It is basically bullet proof with almost nothing to wear out except theCup and the friction pads, and, since they lock up tight they should suffer very little wear unless you run the engine a lot at the RPM where they just begin to engage. The cup is a massive piece of steel that would require an extraordinary amount of wear to need replacement. The pads are replaceable and can be checked by disassemblying the clutch disc and examining them for wear. I would be surprised if they needed replacment at anything less than one or two thousand hours. After the clutch takes far less abuse than one on a car and look how long they last. My clutch engages at about 2300 - 2400 RPM. I idle at 2000 and there is no prop spin. It's wonderful! Start the engine then walk around removing tiedowns and loading up while she warms up, all without the prop flailing away. Jerry Liles jareds wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds > >I have a C gearbox with a clutch in it. I NEVER see anyone on the list >with one or any comments for that matter. How do you check for wear >after a years flights or at how many hours? > >Also i've adjusted my idle to around 2100 and was wondering if there is >a slight spin of prop due to centrifical force or whether those of you >that have a clutch have a motionless prop? > >Jared > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:18 PM PST US From: "jimshumaker" Subject: Kitfox-List: Flaperon control reversal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" Michel I believe the restriction is because of roll "restriction", not control reversal. On the model III the flaps will bottom out if they are deployed too far. If they are deployed far enough there will be zero roll control. That is because both the flaps are bottomed out and neither can be raised to initiate roll. The stick can go fore and aft but not port to starboard. Too much torque on the 582??? Yes...I had an instructor that berated me for advancing the throttle too quickly in his anemic biplane. He said some day I would get in a plane with real torque and roll the thing over on its side before alerion control could counteract it. Sounds like you have that plane. Congratulations on your son's solo. Great too hear another dream is fulfilled. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Flaperson Adjustment > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > From: kerrjohna@comcast.net > > you will probably get a lot of input on this, but one of the reasons for nice handling > > of the kitfox is the differential aileron effect, > > But not for models 1, 2 and 3, isn't it, John? I do have adverse yaw in my model 3. > One thing I wonder about: My flaps setting is maximum 10 degrees. A very conservative setting from the constructor as it is far from the 22 degrees the POH says it would reverse the aileron control. But I have a French friend who flies a Savannah, which also has flaperons and his flaps settings are 0, 20 and 40 degrees. My question is then: How can that plane still control rolls at 40 degrees flaperon and not the Kitfox? > > Another thing: Yesterday my son flew his first solo in my Kitfox. As the instructor and I watched him do touch and go, we noticed that, at the very moment the wheels leave the ground, that the plane tilts to the right. I guess it is the engine torque of my 582. Do you guys experience the same thing? > > Cheers, > Michel > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:26 PM PST US From: "jimshumaker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperson Adjustment --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" John, The starting position for setting up the flaperons is to install a 1" block on the leading edge of the wing at the outer end of the flaperon and tie a flat stick to the bottom of each flaperon so that is touches the block and the bottom on each flaperon. This is the flaps up starting position. They deploy up and down equally on each side. The down limit (flaps) is just above the point where they begin to restrict lateral stick travel. It is hard to see if they go up and down equally. It is preferred that the up travel is greater than the down travel as mentioned in a previous post. Jim Shumaker ----- Original Message ----- From: "FREDERICKSON, JOHN L [AG/2067]" Subject: Kitfox-List: Flaperson Adjustment > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "FREDERICKSON, JOHN L [AG/2067]" > > I heard from a fellow the other day that my flaperons aren't rigged properly (although I've been flying it for 7 years). He says that when one flaperon is down, the other should be up a similar amount? He says that one needed a picture along with the directions to properly rig the flaperons. When I received my kit in 91, Denny (Skystar) hadn't completed the directions. So, I didn't have a picture to help establish where the 11.5 degree measurement was to be taken. Has anyone heard of this? What's a possible problem (I've turned 45 degrees in both directions without noticeable differences)? > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:51 PM PST US From: "jimshumaker" Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 test lever --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" Does anyone out there have an 877 690 Rotax 912 valve spring test lever? My early model 912 ULS has reached its mandatory valve spring compresion test age of 600 hours. Does anyone have a test lever for sale or rent? Jim Shumaker ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:23 PM PST US From: jareds Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Clutch in 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds Jerry, You really set my mind at ease. Thankyou!! Not many clutches out there in the crew so good to know. Mine is rotating a bit at 2100 but i think it might be centrifigal since i can grab it and stop it with no friction! thanks again. Jerry Liles wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles > >Jared >I have the clutch on Tootie Mae. It is basically bullet proof with >almost nothing to wear out except theCup and the friction pads, and, >since they lock up tight they should suffer very little wear unless you >run the engine a lot at the RPM where they just begin to engage. The >cup is a massive piece of steel that would require an extraordinary >amount of wear to need replacement. The pads are replaceable and can be >checked by disassemblying the clutch disc and examining them for wear. >I would be surprised if they needed replacment at anything less than one >or two thousand hours. After the clutch takes far less abuse than one >on a car and look how long they last. My clutch engages at about 2300 - >2400 RPM. I idle at 2000 and there is no prop spin. It's wonderful! >Start the engine then walk around removing tiedowns and loading up while >she warms up, all without the prop flailing away. > >Jerry Liles > >jareds wrote: > > > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds >> >>I have a C gearbox with a clutch in it. I NEVER see anyone on the list >>with one or any comments for that matter. How do you check for wear >>after a years flights or at how many hours? >> >>Also i've adjusted my idle to around 2100 and was wondering if there is >>a slight spin of prop due to centrifical force or whether those of you >>that have a clutch have a motionless prop? >> >>Jared >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:40 PM PST US From: "Marc Arseneault" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" Michel, Please don't ever hesitate on asking any question as the goal of this list is to help each other out, find/buy the best products and learn from others experiences. We learn something new everyday! I think Ha! Ha! Best Regards, Marc Arseneault Ontario Canada From: Michel Verheughe michel@online.no Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WarpDrive propeller Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 23:39:15 +0200 -- Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe michel@online.no Marc Arseneault wrote: I forgot to mention that Warp drive doesn't make the in-flight adjustable themselves but as John mentionned you can purchase an in-flight adjustable hub and blades from the places John mentionned. Again, thanks everyone. My learning curve is slow but with the help of this list ... I'll understand, one day! NSI CAP 140, right? That's another