Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:33 AM - Re: Wing symetry (Michel Verheughe)
2. 12:35 AM - Re: Warp Drive Props (Michel Verheughe)
3. 12:38 AM - Ivoprop Research the Dark side? (Michael Gibbs)
4. 01:42 AM - Re: SV: Flaperon control reversal (Michel Verheughe)
5. 05:34 AM - Re: SV: Flaperon control reversal (Jerry Liles)
6. 05:45 AM - Re: Ivoprop Research the Dark side? (Jerry Liles)
7. 06:48 AM - Re: Warp Drive Props (Mark Schindler)
8. 07:55 AM - Re: Warp Drive Props (Michel Verheughe)
9. 09:10 AM - Re: Warp Drive Props (Mark Schindler)
10. 09:23 AM - Re: Warp Drive Props (jimshumaker)
11. 02:29 PM - Re: Warp Drive Props (Steve Cooper)
12. 02:53 PM - Re: Warp Drive Props (Lowell Fitt)
13. 03:21 PM - Re: Warp Drive Props (Mark Schindler)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wing symetry |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
jimshumaker wrote:
> If you adjust the wing as Steve Cooper
> suggested but have questionable improvement then it can be fixed with an
> aileron trim tab.
Thanks Jim, Steve and John. I will then look at the washout of my wings and
eventually an aileron trim tab. I just wanted to make sure that it didn't had
something to do with my left-hand prop and torque. As it would have been stupid
to correct something that would change with the new engine.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Mark Schindler wrote:
> This was posted today on Avid Group.
Thanks Mark.
What I start wondering now is: has the Warp Drive enough pitch near the hub to
press enough air on my new air-cooled Jabiru?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 3
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| Subject: | Ivoprop Research the Dark side? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>Anyway, if anybody out there has any "real" reports about Ivo, could you
>let me see them, as I am interested in this prop.
Sounds like your insurance company, the EAA, and the safety
consultant are all telling you the same thing. What more are you
looking for, Jeff? Will you place more credence on anecdotes from
list members?
OK, here's my anecdote. I have 40 hours on my Ivo medium and have
had only one problem--the motor in the prop hub that changes blade
pitch failed. I returned it to Ivo, they repaired it and had it back
to me in less than two weeks. They didn't charge me a dime.
My other anecdote: my 'fox gets off quicker, out-climbs and out-runs
other Model IVs with the same engine (Rotax 912S) that use the
"light" or "Patriot" Ivo prop. Flatten out the pitch and pull the
throttle back to idle and it becomes such an efficient brake that I
can feel myself pushed against my shoulder straps in the descent.
It's an incredible little unit.
I guess you could say that I'm in the Ivo fan club.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Flaperon control reversal |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
jimshumaker wrote:
> I did not get the text from Jerry Liles, but what you said in your sumation
> does not follow my experiance.
I hope my summation was the same as what Jerry said, Jim! At least, I meant it!
:-)
In any case, it is not important, I don't intend to change my flaps limitation
that is 10 degrees and the reversal, whether it is true or not, will never be actual.
I was just wondering where I read about it and if, maybe, it was just another
urban legend, like: the water emptying in your sink is affected by the coriolis
effect, or that one can see the great Chinese wall from the moon. ;-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Flaperon control reversal |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
Jim,
Dean Wilson, the designer, warned against flapperon stall possibility,
and, I think it has happened with an early model in Britain. The only
time I met Mr Wilson we talked about this and he was adamant. Remember
flapperons are not the usual type of flap, they are airfoils separate
from the wing, the Fox is kind of a biplane with a very strange lower
wing. As a separate airfoil it can stall even if the wing is not. Just
deploy it too far, get too slow and put in too much aileron, and just
like a stall spin on approach it will happen.
Jerry Liles
jimshumaker wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Michel
>
>I did not get the text from Jerry Liles, but what you said in your sumation
>does not follow my experiance. I am not saying it could not happen but....
>I have flown with the flaps deployed to the point that the stick could not
>be moved port to starboard. While I was not testing for all possible stick
>positions at all all speeds, I did not notice the flaps stall or any control
>reversal at intermediate positions, so long as the wing was not stall. It
>is the wing that typically stalls during stall spin control reversal or
>spinning over the top. The spin over the top is a flight characteristic
>that happens to most planes regardless of the flap setting.
>
>Lateral stick restriction is specific to the rigging of the model III. If
>the flaperons are set to allow the wings to fold then the flap handle must
>lift the flaperons a bit when they are folded. They must be moved beyond
>the point where lateral restriction occurs. So the only usable position of
>the flap handle is about the first 3 or 4 inches from full forward (flaps
>up). The rest of the handle throw can restrict lateral motion and is not
>advantages to use in flight in most situations.
>
>Just wanted to be sure you understood that control reversal as you described
>in your summary is typical for all aircraft when they stall, with or without
>flaps.
>
>Jim Shumaker
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: SV: SV: Kitfox-List: Flaperon control reversal
>
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Jerry Liles [wliles@bayou.com]
>>>under the right conditions of speed, bank, etc it is
>>>possible for it to stall and effectively result in roll reversal.
>>>
>>>
>>So, if say, the flaps are deployed 25 degrees, and the ailerons ten
>>
>>
>degrees, one flaperon would be down 35 degrees and stall, while the other
>would be down 15 degrees and roll the plane in the opposite of the intended
>bank. Hum, it makes sense.
>
>
>>Well, that will never happen with my plane that restricts the flaps to ten
>>
>>
>degrees, and thanks God for that!
>
>
>>Cheers,
>>Michel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ivoprop Research the Dark side? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
I have one anecdotal story about Ivo prop. My friend JR, who used to
post on this list, had an early IVO cockpit adjustable prop on his
Blufox. It was wonderful, short takeoff, good cruise, smooth, great
prop except it cracked the hub. Jim, who is an A&P of considerable
skill, then had a hard time from IVO getting it fixed. IVO declared
that it had been improperly assembled, that wrong torgues must have been
used in mounting, etc. Finally Jim demanded, and after considerable
wrangling, got his money back. Now that was maybe 8 years ago.
Probably IVO has fixed any problems that there were, because you
certainly don't hear of airplanes using the prop falling out of the sky
and there are satisfied users on this and many other lists.
My anecdote
Jerry Liles
Michael Gibbs wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
>
>
>>Anyway, if anybody out there has any "real" reports about Ivo, could you
>>let me see them, as I am interested in this prop.
>>
>>
>
>Sounds like your insurance company, the EAA, and the safety
>consultant are all telling you the same thing. What more are you
>looking for, Jeff? Will you place more credence on anecdotes from
>list members?
>
>OK, here's my anecdote. I have 40 hours on my Ivo medium and have
>had only one problem--the motor in the prop hub that changes blade
>pitch failed. I returned it to Ivo, they repaired it and had it back
>to me in less than two weeks. They didn't charge me a dime.
>
>My other anecdote: my 'fox gets off quicker, out-climbs and out-runs
>other Model IVs with the same engine (Rotax 912S) that use the
>"light" or "Patriot" Ivo prop. Flatten out the pitch and pull the
>throttle back to idle and it becomes such an efficient brake that I
>can feel myself pushed against my shoulder straps in the descent.
>It's an incredible little unit.
>
>I guess you could say that I'm in the Ivo fan club.
>
>Mike G.
>N728KF
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler <mtschindler@yahoo.com>
Michel
Did you talk to Jabiru folks and find out what they think about Warp on Jabiru?
Talk to Andy or Pete they will give you a straight answer.
Jabiru doesn't recommend prolonged ground run on their engines.
Mark
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
Mark Schindler wrote:
> This was posted today on Avid Group.
Thanks Mark.
What I start wondering now is: has the Warp Drive enough pitch near the hub to
press enough air on my new air-cooled Jabiru?
Cheers,
Michel
---------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Mark Schindler wrote:
> Did you talk to Jabiru folks and find out what they think about Warp on Jabiru?
Yes and no, Mark. I tried to email them (the Norwegian agent) and I got the
answer: Get over here and we'll show you a Kitfox with Jabiru and round cowling
that has 400 hours and still going strong.
The problem is, they are on the other side of Norway and the weather hasn't
been very clement lately. But, in two weeks, we have our yearly fly-in in the
mountains and they will be there. I intend then to ask them all the questions
... and even more! :-)
The reason of my present investigation is that someone is selling his Warp
Drive prop and maybe it is a good bargain for me.
Thanks again for you help.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler <mtschindler@yahoo.com>
e-mail US Dealer Pete at Jabiru USA - he is pretty good guy and they sell a lot
of engines.
Mark
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
Mark Schindler wrote:
> Did you talk to Jabiru folks and find out what they think about Warp on Jabiru?
Yes and no, Mark. I tried to email them (the Norwegian agent) and I got the
answer: Get over here and we'll show you a Kitfox with Jabiru and round cowling
that has 400 hours and still going strong.
The problem is, they are on the other side of Norway and the weather hasn't
been very clement lately. But, in two weeks, we have our yearly fly-in in the
mountains and they will be there. I intend then to ask them all the questions
... and even more! :-)
The reason of my present investigation is that someone is selling his Warp
Drive prop and maybe it is a good bargain for me.
Thanks again for you help.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
A used prop has to be awfully cheap to be a good deal. As you know, each
prop has to be matched to each engine choice.
Can the Jabiru take a big enough prop to reach around the cowl?
How much does the Jabiru weigh? How does that compare to the 912?
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Props
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> Mark Schindler wrote:
> > Did you talk to Jabiru folks and find out what they think about Warp on
Jabiru?
>
> Yes and no, Mark. I tried to email them (the Norwegian agent) and I got
the
> answer: Get over here and we'll show you a Kitfox with Jabiru and round
cowling
> that has 400 hours and still going strong.
>
> The problem is, they are on the other side of Norway and the weather
hasn't
> been very clement lately. But, in two weeks, we have our yearly fly-in in
the
> mountains and they will be there. I intend then to ask them all the
questions
> ... and even more! :-)
>
> The reason of my present investigation is that someone is selling his Warp
> Drive prop and maybe it is a good bargain for me.
>
> Thanks again for you help.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
<jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>
> A used prop has to be awfully cheap to be a good deal. As you know, each
> prop has to be matched to each engine choice.
>
...
> Can the Jabiru take a big enough prop to reach around the cowl?
The Jabiru can swing a 68" prop without tips going supersonic.
> How much does the Jabiru weigh?
132 lbs (new version) 126 (old version-mine)
>How does that compare to the 912?
...about 60 lbs lighter than the Rotax
Steve Cooper
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
The Rotax 912 with all accessories, hoses and fluids weighs 169 lbs.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Props
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
> <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> > A used prop has to be awfully cheap to be a good deal. As you know,
each
> > prop has to be matched to each engine choice.
> >
>
>
> ...
> > Can the Jabiru take a big enough prop to reach around the cowl?
>
> The Jabiru can swing a 68" prop without tips going supersonic.
>
> > How much does the Jabiru weigh?
> 132 lbs (new version) 126 (old version-mine)
>
> >How does that compare to the 912?
> ...about 60 lbs lighter than the Rotax
>
> Steve Cooper
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Props |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler <mtschindler@yahoo.com>
Jim
I had an Avid MK-IV with Jabiru and a Sensenich Prop. As a matter of fact I was
testing that prop for Sensenich on Avid?jabiru combo. My prop was 58" long. My
Avid has a Skyfox cawl which I think is a little more streamline than original
Avid cawl. Performance of my Avid was good compared to 582 which I had on previously.
I lost a little in climb and gain in cruise. With 912 and a gear box
you can get better climb perfomance. I chose Jabiru over 912 because of it's
simplicity, weight and $$$ difference.
I'm finishing a new Avid now using Avid Plus fuselage which Steve Winder came out with and I'm going to use Jabiru with 62" prop. I expect my performace to be very comparable to what I had before. I'm documenting my progress at www.avidflyeraircraft.com if you are interested. I would love to install MT electric prop but it's close to $9000.
I would love to put my plane on floats at some point and believe that at that poit
I'll look to a different prop setup to get the adventage in taking off on
floats.
Mark
jimshumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
A used prop has to be awfully cheap to be a good deal. As you know, each
prop has to be matched to each engine choice.
Can the Jabiru take a big enough prop to reach around the cowl?
How much does the Jabiru weigh? How does that compare to the 912?
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe"
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Props
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
>
> Mark Schindler wrote:
> > Did you talk to Jabiru folks and find out what they think about Warp on
Jabiru?
>
> Yes and no, Mark. I tried to email them (the Norwegian agent) and I got
the
> answer: Get over here and we'll show you a Kitfox with Jabiru and round
cowling
> that has 400 hours and still going strong.
>
> The problem is, they are on the other side of Norway and the weather
hasn't
> been very clement lately. But, in two weeks, we have our yearly fly-in in
the
> mountains and they will be there. I intend then to ask them all the
questions
> ... and even more! :-)
>
> The reason of my present investigation is that someone is selling his Warp
> Drive prop and maybe it is a good bargain for me.
>
> Thanks again for you help.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
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