---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/09/04: 44 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:42 AM - Re: WEIGHT AND BALANCE (Steve Zakreski) 2. 04:15 AM - Weight and Balance Calculator (Lmar) 3. 05:00 AM - Re: Weight and Balance Calculator (Mark Schindler) 4. 05:13 AM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Jose M. Toro) 5. 05:25 AM - Re: Warp Drive Props (Michel Verheughe) 6. 05:25 AM - Re: Fuel tank coating (Lowell Fitt) 7. 05:33 AM - Re: Fuel tank coating (Lowell Fitt) 8. 05:44 AM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Lowell Fitt) 9. 05:44 AM - Re: Warp Drive Props (Mark Schindler) 10. 05:54 AM - Re: Maule was Re: (Michel Verheughe) 11. 06:07 AM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Michel Verheughe) 12. 06:11 AM - OT: Far up north (Michel Verheughe) 13. 07:02 AM - Re: valve clearance on NSI Subaru EA 81 (Harold Flynn) 14. 07:05 AM - Re: OT: Far up north (Mark Schindler) 15. 07:14 AM - Re: WEIGHT AND BALANCE (Daniel Aller) 16. 07:24 AM - Re: OT: Far up north (Michel Verheughe) 17. 07:28 AM - Re: Fuel tank coating (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 18. 08:01 AM - Re: Fuel tank coating - Myth Busting. (jeff.hays@aselia.com) 19. 08:29 AM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Steve Cooper) 20. 08:31 AM - Re: New Kitfox Owner (Guy Buchanan) 21. 08:35 AM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Steve Cooper) 22. 08:41 AM - Stratus (Fox5flyer) 23. 08:42 AM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Steve Cooper) 24. 08:48 AM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Michel Verheughe) 25. 08:56 AM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Jose M. Toro) 26. 08:59 AM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Michel Verheughe) 27. 09:10 AM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Steve Cooper) 28. 09:59 AM - Re: Fuel tank coating - Myth Busting. (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 29. 10:14 AM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Mark Schindler) 30. 10:21 AM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Mark Schindler) 31. 12:27 PM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Steve Cooper) 32. 12:43 PM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Jose M. Toro) 33. 01:01 PM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Mark Schindler) 34. 01:33 PM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Michel Verheughe) 35. 02:52 PM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Mark Schindler) 36. 03:01 PM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Jose M. Toro) 37. 03:34 PM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Steve Cooper) 38. 03:35 PM - Jabiru engines (Clem Nichols) 39. 03:36 PM - Re: Jabiru Engines (Steve Cooper) 40. 04:56 PM - Re: WEIGHT AND BALANCE (Steve Zakreski) 41. 06:13 PM - Re: Stratus (Jerry Liles) 42. 07:43 PM - My new phone # and website (hausding, sid) 43. 07:48 PM - Re: Loss of Engine power! (Ray) (KITFOXPILOT@att.net) 44. 09:30 PM - Re: Loss of Engine power! (Ray) (Bruce Harrington) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:42:22 AM PST US From: Steve Zakreski Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WEIGHT AND BALANCE --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski I used the Skystar Vixen rear battery kit on my Classic IV. It puts the battery under the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer. I also have the NSI CAP prop. Even with the battery in the tail, my CG is on the forward limit. Nobody should even think of putting an NSI/CAP combination on a IV without using this tail mounted battery kit. Otherwise you'll be putting 20lbs of ballast in the tail. If I was doing it again, I would put the ELT back there also. See http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Battery_Box_002.jpg SteveZ IV/NSI-EA81/CAP -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirkhull@sbcglobal.net Subject: Kitfox-List: WEIGHT AND BALANCE --> Kitfox-List message posted by: I have a kitfox clasic IV with a suberu engine. I would like to move the battery back to compensate for the increased weight of the engine before covering. I was wondering if anybody else has this combo and how far back they moved the battery. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:20 AM PST US From: Lmar Subject: Kitfox-List: Weight and Balance Calculator Kitfox Rule breakdown below pts rule name description --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lmar Kirk, I have attached a excell file that is a weight and balance calcultor for the Avid. It works great. Just change the moments and weight for your airplane. I find with a long wing Avid, the best c of g is at 14.0 (range 11.1-16.5) for all flight regimes. Mine had been up near 12 and could get it in a good anding attitude. With a 582, I have my battery clear back to the handles on the side of the airplane, and my ELT aft of that. 5 # more of lead at the towbar attach point makes it even better. I can use full flaps and still rotate to touch tail first. Have fun with it. For those on the list who want it,please email me seperately, as I don't think that the list will accept attachments. Larry --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:17 AM PST US From: Mark Schindler Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Weight and Balance Calculator --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler A link to Kitfox W&B http://www.sportflight.com/kfb/download.htm Mark Lmar wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lmar Kirk, I have attached a excell file that is a weight and balance calcultor for the Avid. It works great. Just change the moments and weight for your airplane. I find with a long wing Avid, the best c of g is at 14.0 (range 11.1-16.5) for all flight regimes. Mine had been up near 12 and could get it in a good anding attitude. With a 582, I have my battery clear back to the handles on the side of the airplane, and my ELT aft of that. 5 # more of lead at the towbar attach point makes it even better. I can use full flaps and still rotate to touch tail first. Have fun with it. For those on the list who want it,please email me seperately, as I don't think that the list will accept attachments. Larry --------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:49 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Steve: Thanks for the information! Are you using the round cowling? What it takes to provide adequate cooling using the round cowling? I'm considering to use a Jabiru 2200 as a replacement for a 582 in a Kitfox II. Manufacturer claims that it is an adequate replacement for the 582. As far as I understand, the increase in weight won't exceed 20 pounds. My plane weights 500 pounds with the 582, and the gross weight is 950 pounds, so weight is an issue here. Steve Cooper wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" I have a 2200 installed in my Avid Mark IV Heavy Hauler and I love it. It is so smooth. Fuel consumption is around 3.5 to 4.5 GPH. I bought my engine used with only 5 hours on it...but it had supposedly been overheated so I went ahead and rebuilt it. Factory support was top notch. A gasket set will cost you $110 and a set of rings are$60. I had my crank polished and magnafluxed and I also installed the new style 4340 rods. They were a bit pricey...about $900. My cylinders has some minor oxydation so I had them honed and re-ringed the pistons. I can tell you that the engine is built like a watch. It is awsome. The quality is better than anything I've ever worked on and I've overhauled a LOT of engine. You can have the heads, pistons and barrels off the block in less than 2 hours. I will tell you this...the MOST IMPORTANT THING about success or failure with a Jabiru engine is the quality of your installation job and weather or not you follow Jabiru's giudance for cooling. If you do that, you'll have a great powerplant. If you try to re-engineer their stuff, thinking that your way is better you'll be headed down the slippery slope. Good Luck! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jose M. Toro" To: Subject: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > > To those of you who have experience with Jabiru engines, could you share your experience? What do you think about performance of the Jabiru 2200 and about the manufacturer support? > > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. > Computer Systems Validation Engineer > Eli-Lilly PR05 > > > --------------------------------- > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. Computer Systems Validation Engineer Eli-Lilly PR05 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:08 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Props --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Hello guys, A bit delayed in my answers, I was a few days in Copenhagen. Mark Schindler wrote: > e-mail US Dealer Pete at Jabiru USA - he is pretty good guy and they sell a lot of engines. Thanks Mark, Jim and Steve. I'll buy my Jabiru here in Norway because I want all the local support I may need. Next week-end, we have that big fly-in, in the mountains, and there I will meet the Jabiru agent and a Kitfox IV that has a Jabiru with 650 hours. His owner is very pleased and will tell me all I need to know. That is ... if there is weather for flying next week-end. So far, summer has been pretty rotten in south Norway. The best weather in Europe has actually been in north Norway (Torgeir, are you there?) where a stable high pressure has made temperature reach up to 30 degrees Celsius. Now, look at the map to see on which latitude, north Norway is! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:53 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank coating --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Thanks Bruce, but still, my tanks were factory Kreemed and no problems with flaking or peeling. They are 1992 - 1993 vintage with 7 years of fuel contact. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Lina" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank coating > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Lina" > > I will back up what Rick is saying about the tanks being made of a different > composite structure starting in the late 90's. I bought my Series 5 in May > of 1999, and had concerns about the tank quality. I talked with one of the > tech guys (when SS had real tech guys who were A&P's) either Mark Budak or > Dan Hanson , can't recall and he assured me that I did not need to use the > Kreem in my tanks as they were made of the same material as underground fuel > storage tanks.Personally ,I think the Kreem is does more trouble than good. > When I was at the Skystar facility when buying my plane, I found a ladder > and looked in the tanks of the Series 5 demo that SS had built and could see > that the Kreem had started to come loose from the tanks.That convinced me > not to use the stuff. Keep in mind that I use 100LL exclusively. ----- > Original Message ----- > From: "Lowell Fitt" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank coating > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > > > I respectfully agree with Don. I have the vintage tanks in question and > see > > no problems after 7 years and 600 hours. > > > > Risk if you have any personal information please let us in on it. It > > doesn't really help giving strong advice and then withholding pertinent > > evidence. > > > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank coating > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > > > > > > > > Why take a chance, not worth all the work you have done. Get the new > > tanks. > > > I know. > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > Rick, > > > We used to beat this thread to death. I never could find any firm > > > evidence that the "new" tanks SS provided were made of anything > different > > from the > > > "old" tanks. You have any info on this? Also, never did see anything > > where > > > the material in the old tanks was not suitable for gasoline. Anyway, > when > > did > > > the "new" tanks hit the production schedule at SS? > > > Don Smythe > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:20 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank coating --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Thanks Rick. As on my previous post, my tanks were delivered to me March 1993, factory Kreemed. Since January of this year - 5% ethanol. Still no problems with Kreem. It has discolored a bit - yellowed, but I check regularly when fueling by scraping with a screwdriver to check for softening and always pull my finger strainers at the annual . I have never seen any problems with Kreem breakdown. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank coating > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" > > Not sure where the strong advice observation came from, just my opinion. I > don't remember the date. I did talk to SS years ago and was told about the > difference in tank composition. Both tanks are strong, one is just more > susceptible to alcohol in auto fuels. If you run 100LL not an issue. Let me > say it this way. If the tanks were mine "I" would not risk getting all the > old sealer out. To many people have commented on residual sealant coming out > of the tanks for my likening. Yes, I suppose it can be done, but why would > you, especially in light of the info received about the new spun tanks, now > that's a winner. I would love to run auto fuel though my turbo subaru, but > don't dare due to the fiberglass tanks, old style pre 1994. My apologies to > the list for my previous short post on a serious subject. > > Rick > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank coating > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > I respectfully agree with Don. I have the vintage tanks in question and see > no problems after 7 years and 600 hours. > > Risk if you have any personal information please let us in on it. It > doesn't really help giving strong advice and then withholding pertinent > evidence. > > Lowell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank coating > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > > > > > Why take a chance, not worth all the work you have done. Get the new > tanks. > > I know. > > > > Rick > > > > > > Rick, > > We used to beat this thread to death. I never could find any firm > > evidence that the "new" tanks SS provided were made of anything different > from the > > "old" tanks. You have any info on this? Also, never did see anything > where > > the material in the old tanks was not suitable for gasoline. Anyway, when > did > > the "new" tanks hit the production schedule at SS? > > Don Smythe > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:38 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Jose, I am definitely not an expert on the Jabiru engines so take this info for what it is worth. As posted, the Jabirus is a fine engine. My understanding is that it develops it's peak horsepower at 3300 rpm. This requires a shorter prop to avoid having the tips go supersonic at that speed. As I recall, using it on the round cowled Kitfox the performance is disappointing due to the blanking of the much of the shorter bladed prop by the larger round cowl. A local friend has one on a Sonex and the Avids mentioned have a more aerodynamic cowl. For what it's worth. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > > Steve: > > Thanks for the information! Are you using the round cowling? What it takes to provide adequate cooling using the round cowling? I'm considering to use a Jabiru 2200 as a replacement for a 582 in a Kitfox II. Manufacturer claims that it is an adequate replacement for the 582. As far as I understand, the increase in weight won't exceed 20 pounds. My plane weights 500 pounds with the 582, and the gross weight is 950 pounds, so weight is an issue here. > > Steve Cooper wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > I have a 2200 installed in my Avid Mark IV Heavy Hauler and I love it. It is > so smooth. Fuel consumption is around 3.5 to 4.5 GPH. I bought my engine > used with only 5 hours on it...but it had supposedly been overheated so I > went ahead and rebuilt it. Factory support was top notch. A gasket set will > cost you $110 and a set of rings are$60. I had my crank polished and > magnafluxed and I also installed the new style 4340 rods. They were a bit > pricey...about $900. My cylinders has some minor oxydation so I had them > honed and re-ringed the pistons. I can tell you that the engine is built > like a watch. It is awsome. The quality is better than anything I've ever > worked on and I've overhauled a LOT of engine. You can have the heads, > pistons and barrels off the block in less than 2 hours. > > I will tell you this...the MOST IMPORTANT THING about success or failure > with a Jabiru engine is the quality of your installation job and weather or > not you follow Jabiru's giudance for cooling. If you do that, you'll have a > great powerplant. If you try to re-engineer their stuff, thinking that your > way is better you'll be headed down the slippery slope. Good Luck! > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jose M. Toro" > To: > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > > > > To those of you who have experience with Jabiru engines, could you share > your experience? What do you think about performance of the Jabiru 2200 and > about the manufacturer support? > > > > > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. > > Computer Systems Validation Engineer > > Eli-Lilly PR05 > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. > Computer Systems Validation Engineer > Eli-Lilly PR05 > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:38 AM PST US From: Mark Schindler Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Warp Drive Props --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler Michel I've been to Narvik and Hmmerfest as well as to Bear Island and Spitzbergen (Svalbard Island) - Norway is beautiful country - had I not settle in the US that would have been my choice for a place to live. Mark Michel Verheughe wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Hello guys, A bit delayed in my answers, I was a few days in Copenhagen. Mark Schindler wrote: > e-mail US Dealer Pete at Jabiru USA - he is pretty good guy and they sell a lot of engines. Thanks Mark, Jim and Steve. I'll buy my Jabiru here in Norway because I want all the local support I may need. Next week-end, we have that big fly-in, in the mountains, and there I will meet the Jabiru agent and a Kitfox IV that has a Jabiru with 650 hours. His owner is very pleased and will tell me all I need to know. That is ... if there is weather for flying next week-end. So far, summer has been pretty rotten in south Norway. The best weather in Europe has actually been in north Norway (Torgeir, are you there?) where a stable high pressure has made temperature reach up to 30 degrees Celsius. Now, look at the map to see on which latitude, north Norway is! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:42 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Maule was RE: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Lmar wrote: > I found a great site for the Maule > > http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/Maule_Tailwheel.pdf Thanks Larry. This is a definitive "must keep." Incidentally, I am considering changing my hard wheel for a pneumatic one. I fly mostly from asphalt and the hard wheel is ... a bit hard. Checking Aircraft Spruce, I see that these wheels are not that expensive. Maybe a good Christmas gift, who knows! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:59 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Lowell Fitt wrote: > As I recall, using it on the round cowled Kitfox the performance is > disappointing due to the blanking of the much of the shorter bladed prop by > the larger round cowl. Yes, this is also my main concern, Lowell and Jose. I'll know more about it in a week, after meeting the Jabiru with round cowling "Norwegian expert." I'll let you know his opinion. This is also the reason why I wait with the Warp Drive prop. Proper cooling is of the utmost importance with that engine and, if I need, I'll get the prop that is most suited, even change my round cowling for another one ... if that is possible ... is it? Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:33 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: OT: Far up north --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Mark Schindler wrote: > I've been to Narvik and Hmmerfest as well as to Bear Island and Spitzbergen (Svalbard > Island) - Norway is beautiful country - had I not settle in the US that would have > been my choice for a place to live. Are you sure, Mark? North Norway is beautiful but it is so dark in the winter. Imagine, waiting several months to see the sun again. Mind you, when we see now on the TV people up north bathing in the sea ... it looks wonderful. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:30 AM PST US From: Harold Flynn Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: valve clearance on NSI Subaru EA 81 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Harold Flynn Scott McClintock wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock Clem, You need to rotate the engine in the direction that it runs in. Use a ratchet on the flywheel bolt or "bump it" with the ignition switch. It's pretty easy to tell when the piston is at TDC with all the spark plugs out. (make sure you have you main ign. switch off) You can use a TDC dial indicator or just use an ordinary lead pencil in the cylinder (eraser end in) to see when the piston has gotten to the top. (If one of the tappets are down, that's not TDC) This is not far removed from doing a compression check. You ARE checking this too I assume? Scott in Nome Clem Nichols wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" > > As part of my plane's annual, I wanted to check the valve clearance on my NSI Subaru EA 81 engine. The manual from NSI says that both the exhaust and intake valves should have .012" clearance between the tappet and the valve stem with the piston at top dead center on the compression stroke. My problem is, I don't know for certain how to tell which is the compression stroke. My only guides are the mark on the flywheel and the arrow in the bell-housing window. With the marks lined up, I have the correct gap, but if I rotate the flywheel 360 degrees, the gap is too large. The engine has electronic ignition, so I can't use the distributor as a guide. Furthermore, with the NSI PSRU I can only rotate the engine in the opposite direction it turns when running. The prop free-wheels when turned in the direction it does with the engine running. The engine was running just fine when I began adjusting on the valve clearance. I'm afraid that now I may have completely screwed th i! > ngs up. On 2 or 3 of the cylinders I have the correct clearance at TDC only with the adjustment screws turned all the way out. Then if I rotate the engine 360 degrees I have way too much clearance. I'm thinking that I should adjust the clearance when the gap is the greatest because that would be more in line with the way it was to begin with. Can anyone help me through this predicament? I would have gladly turned the whole thing over to the local A&P, but he seemed more interested in Continentals and Lycomings than Subarus. Any help will be greatly appreciated. > > Clem Nichols > This is the method that Lance at NSI gave me for adjusting valves on the EA81.Start with a cold engine.Looking at the engine from the cocpit turn the engine clockwise from the pully on rear of engine. Start with any cyclinder. Turn the crank untill the intake valve starts to close, then adjust the exhast valve to .012.Then continue to rotate the crank untill the exhast valve starts to open then adjust the intake valve to .012. Then go to next cyclinder. I have used this method for five years now My engine will turn over 6200 rpms so I think this must be the right way to do it. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:18 AM PST US From: Mark Schindler Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: OT: Far up north --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler I was there in the middle of summer - once we crossed Polar Circle 24 hours day light. I guess Northern Norway has long polar days as well. Mark Michel Verheughe wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Mark Schindler wrote: > I've been to Narvik and Hmmerfest as well as to Bear Island and Spitzbergen (Svalbard > Island) - Norway is beautiful country - had I not settle in the US that would have > been my choice for a place to live. Are you sure, Mark? North Norway is beautiful but it is so dark in the winter. Imagine, waiting several months to see the sun again. Mind you, when we see now on the TV people up north bathing in the sea ... it looks wonderful. Cheers, Michel do not archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:29 AM PST US From: "Daniel Aller" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WEIGHT AND BALANCE --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Daniel Aller" SteveZ I have a classic IV with my CG on the forward limit also.What is your empty weight CG and loaded forward and aft CG? Can you land it tail first? I am waiting for FAA inspection to test fly. DAN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Zakreski" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WEIGHT AND BALANCE > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski > > I used the Skystar Vixen rear battery kit on my Classic IV. It puts the > battery under the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer. I also have > the NSI CAP prop. Even with the battery in the tail, my CG is on the > forward limit. Nobody should even think of putting an NSI/CAP combination > on a IV without using this tail mounted battery kit. Otherwise you'll be > putting 20lbs of ballast in the tail. If I was doing it again, I would put > the ELT back there also. > See http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Battery_Box_002.jpg > > SteveZ > IV/NSI-EA81/CAP > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > kirkhull@sbcglobal.net > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: WEIGHT AND BALANCE > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > > I have a kitfox clasic IV with a suberu engine. I would like to move the > battery back to compensate for the increased weight of the engine before > covering. I was wondering if anybody else has this combo and how far back > they moved the battery. > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:25 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: OT: Far up north --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Mark Schindler wrote: > I guess Northern Norway has long polar days as well. Yep, the famous midnight sun, Mark. And that's why Norway has the best strawberries in the world. Because the strawberry doesn't need much heat, only much light to get sweet and delicious. The more north you go, the longest the day will be ... after the spring solstice, of course. So, Strawberry Field shouldn't be in Liverpool or NY's Central Park, but in north Norway! Ha! Take that, John Lennon! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:53 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank coating --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Don,,, Isn't the idea of sealing to prevent auto gas from eating at the fiberglass, causing new leaks??? bob U. Bob U. IMHO, absolutely NOT. The Kreeme has one purpose in life and only one. It is to prevent gasoline from leaking out of the tank due to pin holes in the tank. As was pointed out, Kreeme was designed for metal motorcycle tanks that leaked due to rust spots or pin holes. I've heard the argument over the years about the NEW/OLD SS fiberglass tanks and how Kreeme was supposed to be the big fix for the so called OLD tanks and not necessary in the NEW tanks. Again, Kreeme has nothing to do with protecting the fiberglass from gasoline or alcohol rot. Think about it, would you trust a gasoline tank that would dissolve if allowed to be touched with gasoline? The Kreeme misses many spots in a tank...If Kreeme was protecting the fiberglass then Kitfox's would be falling out of the sky daily due to those many missed spots. I have no doubt that maybe SS came out with a new material in the late 90's but the old material was still OK for gasoline. Another comment about the tanks. I received mine in Sep of 95. They were Kreemed at the factory and started cracking about 6 months after I received them. I completely "cut open" my tanks to remove the Kreeme and do some other mods. One thing for sure, simple sloshing with MEK/Acetone does "NOT" magically dissolve all the Kreeme. I had to do some serious scrubbing in the corners and baffles to get all that junk out. That's when I discovered that MEK and Acetone are very close in their devolving abilities. Another point...My tanks were Kreemed by either spraying or brushing before they were epoxied together. This was quite evident by the presence of masking tape lines inside the tank. Therefore, sloshing of these tanks with Kreeme (even diluted with MEK) will be difficult to get a nice even coat on every little crack and crevice on the insides. Especially with the baffle plates. Last point...We have beat this subject to death many times. However, there are always new members coming on the list and we will occasionally have to beat it again. Nothing wrong with that. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:06 AM PST US From: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank coating - Myth Busting. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jeff.hays@aselia.com" Here's the Kreem description from their website, quite clearly stating fiberglass: "Kreem Fuel Tank Liner is designed for use as a preventive maintenance product in metal and fiberglass tanks, new or old; containing gasoline, gasohol, or diesel. Kreem Fuel Tank Liner has a unique formulation with extremely rapid set-up, that arrests corrosion, prevents leakage from hairline cracks and seam pinholes by coating the tank's inner surface with a fuel resistant elastometer. Feel confident using gasohol in your tank coated with Kreem Fuel Tank Liner as methyl or ethyl alcohol have no effect on the coating." I think it is also another "Old Kitfox Wives" tale, that it is for motorcycle tanks. I bet the Ag industry uses it more than anybody, for tractor's, combine's, etc. I think the Kreem peeling issues have a lot more to do with Skystar's poor quality control, and process, than to do with Kreem. If I hadn't reworked my quick build wings, they probably would have fallen apart as well ... That had to be the most shoddy workmanship I have ever seen, the way they slapped on the structural adhesive (i.e. no fillet's, poor surface prep, etc.). Not to mention that my wings were not even built straight either. Jeff Original Message: ----------------- From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank coating --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Don,,, Isn't the idea of sealing to prevent auto gas from eating at the fiberglass, causing new leaks??? bob U. Bob U. IMHO, absolutely NOT. The Kreeme has one purpose in life and only one. It is to prevent gasoline from leaking out of the tank due to pin holes in the tank. As was pointed out, Kreeme was designed for metal motorcycle tanks that leaked due to rust spots or pin holes. I've heard the argument over the years about the NEW/OLD SS fiberglass tanks and how Kreeme was supposed to be the big fix for the so called OLD tanks and not necessary in the NEW tanks. Again, Kreeme has nothing to do with protecting the fiberglass from gasoline or alcohol rot. Think about it, would you trust a gasoline tank that would dissolve if allowed to be touched with gasoline? The Kreeme misses many spots in a tank...If Kreeme was protecting the fiberglass then Kitfox's would be falling out of the sky daily due to those many missed spots. I have no doubt that maybe SS came out with a new material in the late 90's but the old material was still OK for gasoline. Another comment about the tanks. I received mine in Sep of 95. They were Kreemed at the factory and started cracking about 6 months after I received them. I completely "cut open" my tanks to remove the Kreeme and do some other mods. One thing for sure, simple sloshing with MEK/Acetone does "NOT" magically dissolve all the Kreeme. I had to do some serious scrubbing in the corners and baffles to get all that junk out. That's when I discovered that MEK and Acetone are very close in their devolving abilities. Another point...My tanks were Kreemed by either spraying or brushing before they were epoxied together. This was quite evident by the presence of masking tape lines inside the tank. Therefore, sloshing of these tanks with Kreeme (even diluted with MEK) will be difficult to get a nice even coat on every little crack and crevice on the insides. Especially with the baffle plates. Last point...We have beat this subject to death many times. However, there are always new members coming on the list and we will occasionally have to beat it again. Nothing wrong with that. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:39 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" My advice is to check with Jabiru (Pete K. @ Jabiru USA or Jim M. at Jabiru Pacific) for specific cowling requirements. I do not have the round cowl. Yes! the Jabiru is very light. It will make a terrific powerplant for you. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > > Steve: > > Thanks for the information! Are you using the round cowling? What it takes to provide adequate cooling using the round cowling? I'm considering to use a Jabiru 2200 as a replacement for a 582 in a Kitfox II. Manufacturer claims that it is an adequate replacement for the 582. As far as I understand, the increase in weight won't exceed 20 pounds. My plane weights 500 pounds with the 582, and the gross weight is 950 pounds, so weight is an issue here. > > Steve Cooper wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > I have a 2200 installed in my Avid Mark IV Heavy Hauler and I love it. It is > so smooth. Fuel consumption is around 3.5 to 4.5 GPH. I bought my engine > used with only 5 hours on it...but it had supposedly been overheated so I > went ahead and rebuilt it. Factory support was top notch. A gasket set will > cost you $110 and a set of rings are$60. I had my crank polished and > magnafluxed and I also installed the new style 4340 rods. They were a bit > pricey...about $900. My cylinders has some minor oxydation so I had them > honed and re-ringed the pistons. I can tell you that the engine is built > like a watch. It is awsome. The quality is better than anything I've ever > worked on and I've overhauled a LOT of engine. You can have the heads, > pistons and barrels off the block in less than 2 hours. > > I will tell you this...the MOST IMPORTANT THING about success or failure > with a Jabiru engine is the quality of your installation job and weather or > not you follow Jabiru's giudance for cooling. If you do that, you'll have a > great powerplant. If you try to re-engineer their stuff, thinking that your > way is better you'll be headed down the slippery slope. Good Luck! > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jose M. Toro" > To: > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > > > > To those of you who have experience with Jabiru engines, could you share > your experience? What do you think about performance of the Jabiru 2200 and > about the manufacturer support? > > > > > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. > > Computer Systems Validation Engineer > > Eli-Lilly PR05 > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. > Computer Systems Validation Engineer > Eli-Lilly PR05 > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:31 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: New Kitfox Owner --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan Roger, It really is beautiful. And simple. And light. Just the way I wanted it. I'm looking forward to flying it. Guy Do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:21 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Jose, don't worry...the Jabiru will turn a 68" prop at 3300 and not get close to supersonic. Tip speed is just fine. I have a Warp 2-blade 68" on mine. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Lowell Fitt wrote: > > As I recall, using it on the round cowled Kitfox the performance is > > disappointing due to the blanking of the much of the shorter bladed prop by > > the larger round cowl. > > Yes, this is also my main concern, Lowell and Jose. I'll know more about it in > a week, after meeting the Jabiru with round cowling "Norwegian expert." I'll > let you know his opinion. This is also the reason why I wait with the Warp > Drive prop. Proper cooling is of the utmost importance with that engine and, if > I need, I'll get the prop that is most suited, even change my round cowling for > another one ... if that is possible ... is it? > > Cheers, > Michel > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:01 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Stratus Rule breakdown below pts rule name description --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Does anybody know if Stratus is still in the business of producing Subaru conversions? Mykel Templeman bought the business a couple years ago and I haven't heard squat since then. Anybody have any first hand feedback? Darrel ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:15 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" I just wanted to add...The Norway Jabiru guys performed one of the most exhaustive tests using the Jabiru/Warp prop combination. They found that the 68" Warp prop works best on the jabiru. Warp prop worked very closely during the testing providing farious combinations of prop blades and length. Their results were pretty spectacular. The aircraft used was a Kitfox. steve PS. I don't have the link anymore...but if you hunt I'm sure you can find the results of the testing which were published on the WEB. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Lowell Fitt wrote: > > As I recall, using it on the round cowled Kitfox the performance is > > disappointing due to the blanking of the much of the shorter bladed prop by > > the larger round cowl. > > Yes, this is also my main concern, Lowell and Jose. I'll know more about it in > a week, after meeting the Jabiru with round cowling "Norwegian expert." I'll > let you know his opinion. This is also the reason why I wait with the Warp > Drive prop. Proper cooling is of the utmost importance with that engine and, if > I need, I'll get the prop that is most suited, even change my round cowling for > another one ... if that is possible ... is it? > > Cheers, > Michel > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:07 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Steve Cooper wrote: > My advice is to check with Jabiru (Pete K. @ Jabiru USA or Jim M. at Jabiru > Pacific) for specific cowling requirements. I do not have the round cowl. ... which brings me to the question I have hesitated to ask: Can I put a Kitfox smooth cowling on my model 3? The round cowl is, in fact, 4 parts. How is the smooth one? I was just looking at the new Rans super 6 that our club bought as a training plane. Although it has a Rotax 582 in it, the cowl is made for air-cooled boxer engine: Two holes, one for each cylinder head row, and under, the half-circle opening with lips to suck out the air. That's what I should have with a Jabiru, isn't it? Although I like to "rotary" look of the round cowl, I'd rather have what is best for my engine. Peaceful flying is first, looks are only secondary. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:26 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Steve: Would a 2 blade Warp prop work better than a three blade? I'm currently using a Warp 68" 3 blade. Anyway, since it is for a 582, it rotates the opposite direction, and I would not be able to use the blades. Steve Cooper wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Jose, don't worry...the Jabiru will turn a 68" prop at 3300 and not get close to supersonic. Tip speed is just fine. I have a Warp 2-blade 68" on mine. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Lowell Fitt wrote: > > As I recall, using it on the round cowled Kitfox the performance is > > disappointing due to the blanking of the much of the shorter bladed prop by > > the larger round cowl. > > Yes, this is also my main concern, Lowell and Jose. I'll know more about it in > a week, after meeting the Jabiru with round cowling "Norwegian expert." I'll > let you know his opinion. This is also the reason why I wait with the Warp > Drive prop. Proper cooling is of the utmost importance with that engine and, if > I need, I'll get the prop that is most suited, even change my round cowling for > another one ... if that is possible ... is it? > > Cheers, > Michel > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. Computer Systems Validation Engineer Eli-Lilly PR05 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:09 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Steve Cooper wrote: > Their results were pretty spectacular. The aircraft used was a Kitfox. Hum! Things start making sense here, Steve. Yes, I remember reading on a Swedish Kitfox site the reference to "Norwegian prop testing." The Kitfox used must then be the one from Morten, the guy I'll meet next week-end. BTW, he told me on the phone that he flew his Kitfox to North Cape and back. Since he is the neighbour of the Jabiru retailer, in Sola, Stavanger's airport, it means the entire length of Norway, as long as Oslo to Rome in Italy. Looks like Kitfox + Jabiru = good. ;-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:52 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" I think you would be more than happy with the combination! It's nice to have a resource nearby that you can verify. |Good hunting! Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Steve Cooper wrote: > > Their results were pretty spectacular. The aircraft used was a Kitfox. > > Hum! Things start making sense here, Steve. Yes, I remember reading on a > Swedish Kitfox site the reference to "Norwegian prop testing." > The Kitfox used must then be the one from Morten, the guy I'll meet next > week-end. BTW, he told me on the phone that he flew his Kitfox to North Cape > and back. Since he is the neighbour of the Jabiru retailer, in Sola, > Stavanger's airport, it means the entire length of Norway, as long as Oslo to > Rome in Italy. Looks like Kitfox + Jabiru = good. ;-) > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:55 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel tank coating - Myth Busting. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 7/9/04 8:02:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jeff.hays@aselia.com writes: > I think it is also another "Old Kitfox Wives" tale, that it is for > motorcycle tanks. I bet the Ag industry uses it more than anybody, > for tractor's, combine's, etc. I talked directly with a Rep at the Kreeme Company several years ago. They told me point blank that the material was originally designed for "SMALL" motorcycle tanks. However, it is also widely used in old tractors. I own a Ford 8N and find it mentioned in several web sites. I also think that the Kreeme folks have updated their ad site. It didn't used to mention fiberglass. Also, when I talked with them, they had no knowledge of ever talking to SS about the use of Kreeme in our large flat tanks. At least, that is what they said. They also indicated that it would be near impossible to "slosh" our tanks properly. They agreed that mixing 50/50 with MEK might be a possible solution. > > I think the Kreem peeling issues have a lot more to do with Skystar's > poor quality control, and process, than to do with Kreem. If I hadn't > reworked my quick build wings, they probably would have fallen apart > as well ... That had to be the most shoddy workmanship I have ever > seen, the way they slapped on the structural adhesive (i.e. no fillet's, > poor surface prep, etc.). Not to mention that my wings were not even > built straight either. Amen on the poor quality of the tanks. When I cut mine open I found the same lack of quality. The large holes in the baffles looked like they were stamped out. Had large chucks of raw fiberglass just hanging like dingle berries. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:03 AM PST US From: Mark Schindler Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler Check this site http://www.jabiru.no/PropTest.htm looks like the owner found a better prop. Mark "Jose M. Toro" wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Steve: Would a 2 blade Warp prop work better than a three blade? I'm currently using a Warp 68" 3 blade. Anyway, since it is for a 582, it rotates the opposite direction, and I would not be able to use the blades. Steve Cooper wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Jose, don't worry...the Jabiru will turn a 68" prop at 3300 and not get close to supersonic. Tip speed is just fine. I have a Warp 2-blade 68" on mine. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Lowell Fitt wrote: > > As I recall, using it on the round cowled Kitfox the performance is > > disappointing due to the blanking of the much of the shorter bladed prop by > > the larger round cowl. > > Yes, this is also my main concern, Lowell and Jose. I'll know more about it in > a week, after meeting the Jabiru with round cowling "Norwegian expert." I'll > let you know his opinion. This is also the reason why I wait with the Warp > Drive prop. Proper cooling is of the utmost importance with that engine and, if > I need, I'll get the prop that is most suited, even change my round cowling for > another one ... if that is possible ... is it? > > Cheers, > Michel > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. Computer Systems Validation Engineer Eli-Lilly PR05 --------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:45 AM PST US From: Mark Schindler Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler Correction - I guess you prop was tested on a different airplane - sorry. "Jose M. Toro" wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Steve: Would a 2 blade Warp prop work better than a three blade? I'm currently using a Warp 68" 3 blade. Anyway, since it is for a 582, it rotates the opposite direction, and I would not be able to use the blades. Steve Cooper wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Jose, don't worry...the Jabiru will turn a 68" prop at 3300 and not get close to supersonic. Tip speed is just fine. I have a Warp 2-blade 68" on mine. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Lowell Fitt wrote: > > As I recall, using it on the round cowled Kitfox the performance is > > disappointing due to the blanking of the much of the shorter bladed prop by > > the larger round cowl. > > Yes, this is also my main concern, Lowell and Jose. I'll know more about it in > a week, after meeting the Jabiru with round cowling "Norwegian expert." I'll > let you know his opinion. This is also the reason why I wait with the Warp > Drive prop. Proper cooling is of the utmost importance with that engine and, if > I need, I'll get the prop that is most suited, even change my round cowling for > another one ... if that is possible ... is it? > > Cheers, > Michel > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. Computer Systems Validation Engineer Eli-Lilly PR05 --------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:59 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" No. Not the link I was referring to. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Schindler" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler > > Check this site http://www.jabiru.no/PropTest.htm looks like the owner found a better prop. > > Mark > > "Jose M. Toro" wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > > Steve: > > Would a 2 blade Warp prop work better than a three blade? > > I'm currently using a Warp 68" 3 blade. Anyway, since it is for a 582, it rotates the opposite direction, and I would not be able to use the blades. > > Steve Cooper wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > Jose, don't worry...the Jabiru will turn a 68" prop at 3300 and not get > close to supersonic. Tip speed is just fine. I have a Warp 2-blade 68" on > mine. > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michel Verheughe" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > > Lowell Fitt wrote: > > > As I recall, using it on the round cowled Kitfox the performance is > > > disappointing due to the blanking of the much of the shorter bladed prop > by > > > the larger round cowl. > > > > Yes, this is also my main concern, Lowell and Jose. I'll know more about > it in > > a week, after meeting the Jabiru with round cowling "Norwegian expert." > I'll > > let you know his opinion. This is also the reason why I wait with the Warp > > Drive prop. Proper cooling is of the utmost importance with that engine > and, if > > I need, I'll get the prop that is most suited, even change my round > cowling for > > another one ... if that is possible ... is it? > > > > Cheers, > > Michel > > > > > > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. > Computer Systems Validation Engineer > Eli-Lilly PR05 > > > --------------------------------- > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:00 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Mark: My prop (with the 582) goes left handed when looking from the pilot seat. What direction it goes in the Jabiru engine? Mark Schindler wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler Check this site http://www.jabiru.no/PropTest.htm looks like the owner found a better prop. Mark "Jose M. Toro" wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Steve: Would a 2 blade Warp prop work better than a three blade? I'm currently using a Warp 68" 3 blade. Anyway, since it is for a 582, it rotates the opposite direction, and I would not be able to use the blades. Steve Cooper wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Jose, don't worry...the Jabiru will turn a 68" prop at 3300 and not get close to supersonic. Tip speed is just fine. I have a Warp 2-blade 68" on mine. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Lowell Fitt wrote: > > As I recall, using it on the round cowled Kitfox the performance is > > disappointing due to the blanking of the much of the shorter bladed prop by > > the larger round cowl. > > Yes, this is also my main concern, Lowell and Jose. I'll know more about it in > a week, after meeting the Jabiru with round cowling "Norwegian expert." I'll > let you know his opinion. This is also the reason why I wait with the Warp > Drive prop. Proper cooling is of the utmost importance with that engine and, if > I need, I'll get the prop that is most suited, even change my round cowling for > another one ... if that is possible ... is it? > > Cheers, > Michel > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. Computer Systems Validation Engineer Eli-Lilly PR05 --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Jos M. Toro, P.E. Computer Systems Validation Engineer Eli-Lilly PR05 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:59 PM PST US From: Mark Schindler Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler Jabiru turns to the right - direct drive. "Jose M. Toro" wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Mark: My prop (with the 582) goes left handed when looking from the pilot seat. What direction it goes in the Jabiru engine? Mark Schindler wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler Check this site http://www.jabiru.no/PropTest.htm looks like the owner found a better prop. Mark "Jose M. Toro" wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Steve: Would a 2 blade Warp prop work better than a three blade? I'm currently using a Warp 68" 3 blade. Anyway, since it is for a 582, it rotates the opposite direction, and I would not be able to use the blades. Steve Cooper wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Jose, don't worry...the Jabiru will turn a 68" prop at 3300 and not get close to supersonic. Tip speed is just fine. I have a Warp 2-blade 68" on mine. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Lowell Fitt wrote: > > As I recall, using it on the round cowled Kitfox the performance is > > disappointing due to the blanking of the much of the shorter bladed prop by > > the larger round cowl. > > Yes, this is also my main concern, Lowell and Jose. I'll know more about it in > a week, after meeting the Jabiru with round cowling "Norwegian expert." I'll > let you know his opinion. This is also the reason why I wait with the Warp > Drive prop. Proper cooling is of the utmost importance with that engine and, if > I need, I'll get the prop that is most suited, even change my round cowling for > another one ... if that is possible ... is it? > > Cheers, > Michel > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. Computer Systems Validation Engineer Eli-Lilly PR05 --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Jos M. Toro, P.E. Computer Systems Validation Engineer Eli-Lilly PR05 --------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:52 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Steve Cooper wrote: > No. Not the link I was referring to. Could it be this? Go to: http://hem.passagen.se/lgk-alv/index.htm Click on "Propellar" tben click on "proptest" Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:39 PM PST US From: Mark Schindler Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler scroll down Steve Cooper wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" No. Not the link I was referring to. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Schindler" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler > > Check this site http://www.jabiru.no/PropTest.htm looks like the owner found a better prop. > > Mark > > "Jose M. Toro" wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > > Steve: > > Would a 2 blade Warp prop work better than a three blade? > > I'm currently using a Warp 68" 3 blade. Anyway, since it is for a 582, it rotates the opposite direction, and I would not be able to use the blades. > > Steve Cooper wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > Jose, don't worry...the Jabiru will turn a 68" prop at 3300 and not get > close to supersonic. Tip speed is just fine. I have a Warp 2-blade 68" on > mine. > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michel Verheughe" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > > Lowell Fitt wrote: > > > As I recall, using it on the round cowled Kitfox the performance is > > > disappointing due to the blanking of the much of the shorter bladed prop > by > > > the larger round cowl. > > > > Yes, this is also my main concern, Lowell and Jose. I'll know more about > it in > > a week, after meeting the Jabiru with round cowling "Norwegian expert." > I'll > > let you know his opinion. This is also the reason why I wait with the Warp > > Drive prop. Proper cooling is of the utmost importance with that engine > and, if > > I need, I'll get the prop that is most suited, even change my round > cowling for > > another one ... if that is possible ... is it? > > > > Cheers, > > Michel > > > > > > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. > Computer Systems Validation Engineer > Eli-Lilly PR05 > > > --------------------------------- > > > --------------------------------- > > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:08 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Could I get a smooth cowling that fits a Kitfox II? Mark Schindler wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler scroll down Steve Cooper wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" No. Not the link I was referring to. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Schindler" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler > > Check this site http://www.jabiru.no/PropTest.htm looks like the owner found a better prop. > > Mark > > "Jose M. Toro" wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > > Steve: > > Would a 2 blade Warp prop work better than a three blade? > > I'm currently using a Warp 68" 3 blade. Anyway, since it is for a 582, it rotates the opposite direction, and I would not be able to use the blades. > > Steve Cooper wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > Jose, don't worry...the Jabiru will turn a 68" prop at 3300 and not get > close to supersonic. Tip speed is just fine. I have a Warp 2-blade 68" on > mine. > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michel Verheughe" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > > Lowell Fitt wrote: > > > As I recall, using it on the round cowled Kitfox the performance is > > > disappointing due to the blanking of the much of the shorter bladed prop > by > > > the larger round cowl. > > > > Yes, this is also my main concern, Lowell and Jose. I'll know more about > it in > > a week, after meeting the Jabiru with round cowling "Norwegian expert." > I'll > > let you know his opinion. This is also the reason why I wait with the Warp > > Drive prop. Proper cooling is of the utmost importance with that engine > and, if > > I need, I'll get the prop that is most suited, even change my round > cowling for > > another one ... if that is possible ... is it? > > > > Cheers, > > Michel > > > > > > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. > Computer Systems Validation Engineer > Eli-Lilly PR05 > > > --------------------------------- > > > --------------------------------- > > --------------------------------- Jos M. Toro, P.E. Computer Systems Validation Engineer Eli-Lilly PR05 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:23 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Yes Michel, that is the page I was referring to. I saved it again...thanks! :) Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Steve Cooper wrote: > > No. Not the link I was referring to. > > Could it be this? Go to: > http://hem.passagen.se/lgk-alv/index.htm > > Click on "Propellar" tben click on "proptest" > > Cheers, > Michel > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:35:32 PM PST US From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Kitfox-List: Jabiru engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" With all this talk about Jabiru engines, does anyone know of a Kitfox anywhere with a Jab 3300 on it? ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:16 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" I know. I found your correction. No problem. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Schindler" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler > > scroll down > > Steve Cooper wrote:--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > No. Not the link I was referring to. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Schindler" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler > > > > Check this site http://www.jabiru.no/PropTest.htm looks like the owner > found a better prop. > > > > Mark > > > > "Jose M. Toro" wrote: > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > > > > Steve: > > > > Would a 2 blade Warp prop work better than a three blade? > > > > I'm currently using a Warp 68" 3 blade. Anyway, since it is for a 582, it > rotates the opposite direction, and I would not be able to use the blades. > > > > Steve Cooper wrote: > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" > > > > Jose, don't worry...the Jabiru will turn a 68" prop at 3300 and not get > > close to supersonic. Tip speed is just fine. I have a Warp 2-blade 68" on > > mine. > > > > Steve > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Michel Verheughe" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jabiru Engines > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > > > > Lowell Fitt wrote: > > > > As I recall, using it on the round cowled Kitfox the performance is > > > > disappointing due to the blanking of the much of the shorter bladed > prop > > by > > > > the larger round cowl. > > > > > > Yes, this is also my main concern, Lowell and Jose. I'll know more about > > it in > > > a week, after meeting the Jabiru with round cowling "Norwegian expert." > > I'll > > > let you know his opinion. This is also the reason why I wait with the > Warp > > > Drive prop. Proper cooling is of the utmost importance with that engine > > and, if > > > I need, I'll get the prop that is most suited, even change my round > > cowling for > > > another one ... if that is possible ... is it? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Michel > > > > > > > > > > > > Jos M. Toro, P.E. > > Computer Systems Validation Engineer > > Eli-Lilly PR05 > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:00 PM PST US From: Steve Zakreski Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WEIGHT AND BALANCE --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Dan My empty weight for my Classic IV is a hefty 825 lbs. It has just about every option including CAP and a full vacuum system. I don't remember the empty CG, but I think it was something like 10.5". Since it starts at the forward limit, any people/fuel/baggage moves the CG back, so as long as I stay under the gross weight (OK close to the GW) I'm within the envelope. I have never had a problem doing a 3 point landing as far as elevator control is concerned, but with the forward CG, it does sink quite fast on approach, and tend to float a bit once in ground effect due to the extra speed I carry on approach. Not a problem for my flying. I'm working on rearranging some things to get the CG back a bit. SteveZ -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Daniel Aller Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WEIGHT AND BALANCE --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Daniel Aller" SteveZ I have a classic IV with my CG on the forward limit also.What is your empty weight CG and loaded forward and aft CG? Can you land it tail first? I am waiting for FAA inspection to test fly. DAN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Zakreski" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: WEIGHT AND BALANCE > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski > > I used the Skystar Vixen rear battery kit on my Classic IV. It puts the > battery under the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer. I also have > the NSI CAP prop. Even with the battery in the tail, my CG is on the > forward limit. Nobody should even think of putting an NSI/CAP combination > on a IV without using this tail mounted battery kit. Otherwise you'll be > putting 20lbs of ballast in the tail. If I was doing it again, I would put > the ELT back there also. > See http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Battery_Box_002.jpg > > SteveZ > IV/NSI-EA81/CAP > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > kirkhull@sbcglobal.net > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: WEIGHT AND BALANCE > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > > I have a kitfox clasic IV with a suberu engine. I would like to move the > battery back to compensate for the increased weight of the engine before > covering. I was wondering if anybody else has this combo and how far back > they moved the battery. > > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:11 PM PST US From: Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Stratus --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles THe Stratus website is still up and running. Try this url: http://www.stratus2000.homestead.com/ The engine has worked very well for John Larsen in his Airdale/Pursang. Jerry Liles Fox5flyer wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > >Does anybody know if Stratus is still in the business of producing Subaru >conversions? Mykel Templeman bought the business a couple years ago and I >haven't heard squat since then. Anybody have any first hand feedback? > > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:04 PM PST US From: "hausding, sid" Subject: Kitfox-List: My new phone # and website --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" this is my friend and I would appreciate it if everyone would just look at his site.........my favor and one for him too.........he was a commercial pilot and now is facing reality and economics by getting into a business by himself.............life is such a bitch. anyway, take a look, Sid ---------do not archive Hello to all! Just a note to let everyone know that I have changed my phone # (again). The new # is 336-675-2490. Some of you may not know that I have PERMANENTLY changed my residence to Burlington, NC. I have decided to give up my addiction to aviation in an attempt to live a more normal (and stable) lifestyle. Right now I am helping my Dad sell real estate and working as a waiter at night (got to pay the bills somehow). I may do some aerial photography for my Dad's clients and a few other realtors from time to time, but that's about all the flying I plan to do. In other news, I have started my own online shopping web site (look out Amazon)! Please take the time to visit and tell me what you think. Be sure to compare my prices with those at www.epinions.com . I think you will find that my prices are very competitive with "the big boys" and in many cases I can beat their prices big time! Even if you are not interested in shopping at my store, it would really help me out if you just browsed a bunch of pages. This helps my web traffic #'s and will allow me to make more advertising $$$. If you REALLY like what you see you can become an affiliate under me and build your own store and sell your own products, AT NO COST TO YOU! Or you can pay a start up fee of $65 and an annual fee of $45 and become an INDEPENDENT store owner. Either way, it s an easy way to make some extra cash and doesn't take up much of your time. Please pass on my website address to your friends! Oh yeah, my web address is www.shopdanfords.com That's it for now. Hope everyone has a great summer! Rob ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:44 PM PST US From: KITFOXPILOT@att.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Loss of Engine power! (Ray) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net -------------- Original message from Ceashman@aol.com: -------------- > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com > > Hello Ray. > > I had a problem with very rough running on my 912 UL. Very lucky I was not > flying, in fact I had just changed the oil and filter. On start up - very > difficult and could hardly keep the engine running smooth. At low RPM, it > shuddered > to a halt. > > In dismay, I thought it would be an electrical fault and would cost$$$ and > for the life of me could not understand why! > My wife, looking over my shoulder with a fresh pair of eyes suddenly points > to the cross carburetor tube (aluminum) and asks why it is not connected at one > end, where it meets the short hose, to connect it to one of the carbs. > How could I have missed this? Sometimes you cannot see the wood for the trees > I replaced the hose for a slightly longer piece, tightened the hose clamps > and started the motor. The 912 and the Warp Drive fired up and spun very > smoothly and I have a mental note now to check the security of a couple more > items > before flight. I don't know, but this could be the problem! > > Hope it doesn't cost too much to fix. > Eric Ashman. Classic IV, Atlanta > > e-mail; ceashman@aol.com > > > > Hi and thanks for the response! I found several problems that I have fixed, one was a clogged fuel cap vent thanks to a mud dauber! the other was I removed the inline fuel filters and shut off valves. The other thing I did was insure my fuel lines run down hill!! I checked my fuel line to the gascalator and fuel flowed fine. I also checked my carb bowls and they were fine. I will do a test run on the ground this sunday 07/11/04 in the three point attitude, and also at an incline. Full run up and see what happens. Thanks Ray > > -------------- Original message from Ceashman@aol.com: -------------- -- Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com Hello Ray. I had a problem with very rough running on my 912 UL. Very lucky I was not flying, in fact I had just changed the oil and filter. On start up - very difficult and could hardly keep the engine running smooth. At low RPM, it shuddered to a halt. In dismay, I thought it would be an electrical fault and would cost$$$ and for the life of me could not understand why! My wife, looking over my shoulder with a fresh pair of eyes suddenly points to the cross carburetor tube (aluminum) and asks why it is not connected at one end, where it meets the short hose, to connect it to one of the carbs. How could I have missed this? Sometimes you cannot see the wood for the trees I replaced the hose for a sli ghtly longer piece, tightened the hose clamps and started the motor. The 912 and the Warp Drive fired up and spun very smoothly and I have a mental note now to check the security of a couple more items before flight. I don't know, but this could be the problem! Hope it doesn't cost too much to fix. Eric Ashman. Classic IV, Atlanta e-mail; ceashman@aol.com ========================================================== ==================== Hi and thanks for the response! I found several problems that I have fixed, one was a clogged fuel cap vent thanks to a mud dauber! the other was I removed the inline fuel filters and shut off valves. The other thing I did was insure my fuel lines run down hill!! I checked my fuel line to the gascalator and fuel flowed fine. I also checked my carb bowls and they were fine. I will do a test run on the ground this sunday 07/11/04 in the three point attitude, and also at an incline. Full run up and see what happens. Thanks Ray ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:15 PM PST US From: "Bruce Harrington" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Loss of Engine power! (Ray) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" Hi Ray, I put a thin piece of AL in the vent hole to prevent many bugs from entering both the fuel vent and the pitot tube. Slight taper and shove it in. bh > > Hi and thanks for the response! I found several problems that I have fixed, one was a clogged fuel cap vent thanks to a mud dauber! the other was I removed the inline fuel filters and shut off valves. The other thing I did was insure my fuel lines run down hill!! I checked my fuel line to the gascalator and fuel flowed fine. I also checked my carb bowls and they were fine. I will do a test run on the ground this sunday 07/11/04 in the three point attitude, and also at an incline. Full run up and see what happens. > > Thanks > Ray