---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 07/24/04: 39 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:49 AM - Re: Fact or Tales? (Michel Verheughe) 2. 01:54 AM - Aircraft Spruce (Michel Verheughe) 3. 04:01 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce/ Michel (Ceashman@aol.com) 4. 05:26 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce (Glenn Horne) 5. 07:22 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce (Wwillyard@aol.com) 6. 07:47 AM - Re: Short bearings (Tom Jones) 7. 08:01 AM - Confused (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 8. 08:12 AM - Re: Confused (Steve Cooper) 9. 08:13 AM - Re: Confused (Vic Jacko) 10. 08:20 AM - Re: Confused (Tom Jones) 11. 08:23 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce (Fox5flyer) 12. 08:25 AM - Re: Fact or Tales? (Ted Palamarek) 13. 08:35 AM - Re: Confused (Michel Verheughe) 14. 08:57 AM - Re: Confused (Steve Cooper) 15. 09:02 AM - Re: Confused (Arthur Nation) 16. 09:28 AM - NSI Oil Seal (Fox5flyer) 17. 09:37 AM - Tire Changeout (George Wells) 18. 09:59 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce/ Michel (RICHARD HUTSON) 19. 10:25 AM - Re: NSI Oil Seal (kurt schrader) 20. 10:42 AM - Re: Confused (kurt schrader) 21. 10:56 AM - Re: Aircraft Spruce (jimshumaker) 22. 11:01 AM - Re: Fact or Tales? (kurt schrader) 23. 11:13 AM - Re: Fact or Tales? (Tom Jones) 24. 11:43 AM - Re: NSI Oil Seal (Fox5flyer) 25. 12:53 PM - Re: NSI Oil Seal (Peter Graichen) 26. 01:00 PM - Re: Confused (Richard Broom) 27. 01:44 PM - Re: NSI Oil Seal (Fox5flyer) 28. 01:45 PM - Oshkosh frequencies (Fox5flyer) 29. 02:11 PM - Re: Oshkosh frequencies (John E. King) 30. 02:37 PM - Re: Oshkosh frequencies (Fox5flyer) 31. 02:38 PM - Re: Oshkosh anybody? (Fox5flyer) 32. 02:44 PM - Re: Aircraft Spruce/ Michel (Michel Verheughe) 33. 05:22 PM - This is for the Guy trying to contact aircraft spruce (Rex & Jan Shaw) 34. 05:29 PM - Re: This is for the Guy trying to contact aircraft spruce (Dcecil3@aol.com) 35. 05:57 PM - Re: NSI Oil Seal (Rick) 36. 06:55 PM - Re: NSI Oil Seal (Fox5flyer) 37. 08:14 PM - Re: NSI Oil Seal (Rick) 38. 08:52 PM - Re: NSI Oil Seal (RICHARD HUTSON) 39. 11:02 PM - Re: NSI Oil Seal (kurt schrader) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:32 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fact or Tales? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Thanks, Mike and Kurt! kurt schrader wrote: > Can you simulate this on your computer? Good Lord! You're a bright chap, Kurt! Why didn't I think of that? ... (one hour later) Ok, I did that. I can, individually, change the AoA of each section (up to ten) of a profile. I twisted my elevators two degrees up on the port side and two degrees down on starboard. ... it doesn't make a difference in the plane stability. As for the flutter, it is not simulated, as you may guess. That is, simulation model flutter is an entirely different aspect and the real big problem in simulation. But it is for all aspects of modelling. Imagine that you simulate a bouncing ball between your hand and the ground. As you move your hand closer to the ground, the bouncing frequency increases, increases ... until something stops. Simulate that in real-time and you'll get a problem! Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:00 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Spruce --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Dcecil3@aol.com wrote: > This is for the Guy trying to contact aircraft spruce.I've never gone more > than a day befor getting a response. Well, it is not really helping, David. Because it would mean that Aircraft Spruce answers only US calls. Anyway, maybe somebody can help me answering this: What is the weight of the "Homebuilder Special" tailwheel and is the wheel of soft rubber? The reason I ask is that the "hard rubber" Maule wheel I have now is ... hard on asphalt. Originally I was thinking of changing for the pneumatic Maule, only one pound heavier. But now, I don't know. What do you say, guys? TIA, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:04 AM PST US From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Spruce/ Michel --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com Good morning Michel. Your not local, correct! Why not call Aircraft Spruce on the question of the tail wheel. We will find out: A/ the weight of the wheel and B/ if Aircraft Spruce returns calls to people overseas. C/ the time it takes Aircraft Spruce to return calls during a busy time like Oshkosh. Answers B and C are important to us (just kidding) I kinda like the hard rubber, Maul wheel assembly. It lets me know that I have landed (well, the rear end anyway)! just kidding again. Can't wait for the answers. Eric. Do not archive e-mail; ceashman@aol.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:53 AM PST US From: "Glenn Horne" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Spruce --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" Just check the Spruce catalog and no weight given on the wheel,but it is soft rubber. Going to put one on my Model II. Glenn Horne -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Spruce --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Dcecil3@aol.com wrote: > This is for the Guy trying to contact aircraft spruce.I've never gone more > than a day befor getting a response. Well, it is not really helping, David. Because it would mean that Aircraft Spruce answers only US calls. Anyway, maybe somebody can help me answering this: What is the weight of the "Homebuilder Special" tailwheel and is the wheel of soft rubber? The reason I ask is that the "hard rubber" Maule wheel I have now is ... hard on asphalt. Originally I was thinking of changing for the pneumatic Maule, only one pound heavier. But now, I don't know. What do you say, guys? TIA, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:51 AM PST US From: Wwillyard@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Spruce --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Wwillyard@aol.com For what its worth, I E-mailed Aircraft Spruce with a request for more information on the Maul P8B tundra tailwheel about two weeks ago and have had no response as well. Bill Willyard Grandville MI USA ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:15 AM PST US From: Tom Jones Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Short bearings --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones Secondly, on the Model 4 with the airfoiled vertical tail kit, it says to set the top gap (between the vert stab and rudder) at 1.5" and the bottom gap at 2.3". The problem is that the bearings aren't long enough the get that much gap at the bottom. By the way, this is a 10 year old model with 4 bearings (the top 3 are > 10-32 and the bottom one is 1/4-28). These are the bearings that the previous owner had put on the plane and appears to be correct as per the old manual. Thanks. > Bill Bill, Just a guess on your rudder. Your kit is the same era as my Classic 4...1994. This was during the transition from the "Model 4-1200 to the "Classic 4". Skystar also produced the XL for a short period then. My Classic 4 kit contained parts labeled for all three of these models. I think they were clearing out all the left over parts from the two discontinued 4s. My Classic 4 has only three rod ends to connect the rudder to the vertical stab. All three are 1/4-28. My manual shows 4 (top three 10-32 and bottom one 1/4-28). The "revised" manual shows the 3 rod end set up. Your problem might be that the wrong rod ends to connect the rudder were shipped with your kit. You may need to talk with one of the "Old timers" at Skystar, or someone on the list with the 4 bearing set up might be able to measure theirs and help you out. Tom Jones ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:11 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Confused --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com "no flights above 10,000' MSL or 2,000' AGL, whichever is higher" The above comment is from a short version of the Sport Pilot rule and is giving me a complete brain loss. My field is at 43' sea level....Does the above mean I can fly at 10,000' MSL or am I limited to 2,000' AGL. For some reason, the above statement makes no sense. What am I missing? Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:14 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Confused --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" A Sport Pilot can not fly over 10,000' MSL. What your reading was changed in the final rule due to the confusion surrounding the statement. Steve Cooper PS. Like I was saying a week or so before Sport Pilot was approved...DON'T ALLOW YOURSELF TO FAIL THE MEDICAL!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Confused > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > "no flights above 10,000' MSL or 2,000' AGL, whichever is higher" > > The above comment is from a short version of the Sport Pilot rule and is > giving me a complete brain loss. My field is at 43' sea level....Does the above > mean I can fly at 10,000' MSL or am I limited to 2,000' AGL. For some reason, > the above statement makes no sense. What am I missing? > > Don Smythe > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:55 AM PST US From: "Vic Jacko" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Confused --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" Don, It appears that one could depart Leadville, CO at 9600 feet MSL and climb to but not above 11,600 feet MSL? I think. But how long could you fly at that altitude? Seems they want you to stay below 10,000' MSL unless you need the extra 2,000'! Vic ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Confused > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > "no flights above 10,000' MSL or 2,000' AGL, whichever is higher" > > The above comment is from a short version of the Sport Pilot rule and is > giving me a complete brain loss. My field is at 43' sea level....Does the above > mean I can fly at 10,000' MSL or am I limited to 2,000' AGL. For some reason, > the above statement makes no sense. What am I missing? > > Don Smythe > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:28 AM PST US From: Tom Jones Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Confused --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones > > "no flights above 10,000' MSL or 2,000' AGL, whichever is higher" > > The above comment is from a short version of the Sport Pilot rule and is > giving me a complete brain loss. My field is at 43' sea level....Does the above > mean I can fly at 10,000' MSL or am I limited to 2,000' AGL. For some reason, > the above statement makes no sense. What am I missing? Don, You can go to 10000 MSL. You can go to 12000 MSL and be at 2000 AGL when you cross the mountains that are 10000 feet high. Tom Jones ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:11 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Spruce --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Not to make excuses for them, but that was probably about when they started packing up for Oshkosh. I'm sure that all that's minding the store right now is the "skeleton crew" as they send a fairly large contingent on the road. I'm sure they're all there by now and setting up their display. Darrel ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Spruce > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Wwillyard@aol.com > > For what its worth, I E-mailed Aircraft Spruce with a request for more > information on the Maul P8B tundra tailwheel about two weeks ago and have had no > response as well. > > Bill Willyard > Grandville MI USA > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:27 AM PST US From: "Ted Palamarek" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fact or Tales? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ted Palamarek" Mike, Michel & Kurt Wasn't the twist put into the elevator to take care of the "P" factor??? I believe that is the twisting moment the plane tries to take as a result of the way the air comes rearwards off the propeller or something like that. I seem to recall this from some long ago conversation. Ted P. Edmonton DO NOT ARCHIVE kurt schrader wrote: > Can you simulate this on your computer? Good Lord! You're a bright chap, Kurt! Why didn't I think of that? ... (one hour later) Ok, I did that. I can, individually, change the AoA of each section (up to ten) of a profile. I twisted my elevators two degrees up on the port side and two degrees down on starboard. ... it doesn't make a difference in the plane stability. As for the flutter, it is not simulated, as you may guess. That is, simulation model flutter is an entirely different aspect and the real big problem in simulation. But it is for all aspects of modelling. Imagine that you simulate a bouncing ball between your hand and the ground. As you move your hand closer to the ground, the bouncing frequency increases, increases ... until something stops. Simulate that in real-time and you'll get a problem! Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:35 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Confused --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Tom Jones wrote: > You can go to 10000 MSL. You can go to 12000 MSL and be at 2000 AGL when > you cross the mountains that are 10000 feet high. Yes and, incidentally, 10,000 MSL is also the ceiling for Norwegian (and maybe other Europeans) microlights. I guess they don't want us to go up in the sky with a bottle. ... no, not whiskey, Kurt, a bottle of oxygen! (Man, that guy is really one-track minded! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:33 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Confused --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Sorry guys, I believe this language was removed in the final rule. 10,000 msl is the alt. limit. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vic Jacko" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Confused > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" > > Don, It appears that one could depart Leadville, CO at 9600 feet MSL and > climb to but not above 11,600 feet MSL? > > I think. But how long could you fly at that altitude? Seems they want you > to stay below 10,000' MSL unless you need the extra 2,000'! > > Vic > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Kitfox-List: Confused > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > > > "no flights above 10,000' MSL or 2,000' AGL, whichever is higher" > > > > The above comment is from a short version of the Sport Pilot rule and is > > giving me a complete brain loss. My field is at 43' sea level....Does the > above > > mean I can fly at 10,000' MSL or am I limited to 2,000' AGL. For some > reason, > > the above statement makes no sense. What am I missing? > > > > Don Smythe > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:41 AM PST US From: Arthur Nation Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Confused --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Arthur Nation On Saturday 24 July 2004 08:00, AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: Don, When I first read this last year, I too was totally confused. I now see (think) it means that up to 10,000 msl is ok until you are over a mountain!!. Then , when you are at 8,000 feet msl you can just fly over the trees, if any, but not so your head hits the 10,000 ft msl limit. ha,ha. Clear?? I don't think so. I asked this clarification of two instructors one day. They just shook their heads and walked away. Arthur partial S7 kit (after 2 years) Tacoma, WA do not archive > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > "no flights above 10,000' MSL or 2,000' AGL, whichever is higher" > > The above comment is from a short version of the Sport Pilot rule and is > giving me a complete brain loss. My field is at 43' sea level....Does the > above mean I can fly at 10,000' MSL or am I limited to 2,000' AGL. For > some reason, the above statement makes no sense. What am I missing? > > Don Smythe > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:50 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" I went flying this morning for St Helens MI to have breakfast and and only got about ten miles before I smelled smoke (not good) so I turned around and went back home. After popping the cowling I found that my rear main oil seal was suddenly leaking badly so I'm grounded for awhile until I can pull the engine out and replace it. I'm off to Oshkosh in the morning so it'll have to wait. My question is can anybody give me the part number for the seal? Funny how it can suddenly start spewing oil like that. Maybe it popped out? Any input? Darrel S5/NSI/CAP ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:08 AM PST US From: "George Wells" Subject: Kitfox-List: Tire Changeout --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "George Wells" My Model 4 Speedster presently has 600x6 tires mounted on Matco W62 Wheels. I am planning on replacing them with 700x6 tires. My problem is the only tubes I can find have straight valve stems and the Matco W62 requires a stem offset 90 degrees to go thru the valve stem hole. Does anyone know where I can find 700x6 tubes with a 90 degree off set ?? Thanks -- George ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:10 AM PST US From: "RICHARD HUTSON" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Spruce/ Michel --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RICHARD HUTSON" I think Michel is in Norway!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Spruce/ Michel > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com > > > Good morning Michel. > > Your not local, correct! > > Why not call Aircraft Spruce on the question of the tail wheel. > We will find out: A/ the weight of the wheel and > B/ if Aircraft Spruce returns calls to people overseas. > C/ the time it takes Aircraft Spruce to return calls during a > busy time like Oshkosh. > Answers B and C are important to us (just kidding) > > I kinda like the hard rubber, Maul wheel assembly. It lets me know that I > have landed (well, the rear end anyway)! just kidding again. > > Can't wait for the answers. Eric. > Do not archive > e-mail; ceashman@aol.com > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:28 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Hi Darrel, It may have just backed out a bit. Operating at high oil pressure for longer periods like we do is probably the culprit. A while back there was someone selling home made oil seal retainers for $30 to keep that from happening. It was right when I was just joining the list, so I am guessing that this has been a problem before. Thye only had 2 left then and I didn't buy one, but you might be able to make your own. Their's was a ring with a tab that connects to a near by engine bolt. You also might be able to just tap it back in place if you use a large socket/pipe to get it in straight, but a better long term method is to drain the oil and remove the seal and clean it up before replacing it. My Chilton's shows the seal, but it doesn't give a part number. Sorry. Refer to a 1984 Soob Brat (?) at your nearest dealer, if you replace it. It is the auto front seal of course. :-) Best info I have for you. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Fox5flyer wrote: > > I went flying this morning for St Helens MI to have > breakfast and and only > got about ten miles before I smelled smoke (not > good) so I turned around and > went back home. After popping the cowling I found > that my rear main oil > seal was suddenly leaking badly so I'm grounded for > awhile until I can pull > the engine out and replace it. I'm off to Oshkosh > in the morning so it'll > have to wait. > My question is can anybody give me the part number > for the seal? Funny how > it can suddenly start spewing oil like that. Maybe > it popped out? Any > input? > Darrel > S5/NSI/CAP ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:15 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Confused --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Michel, You are enhancing my reputation. Anything is an improvement! 1. Answer: "whichever is the higher". Tom has it right. If the ground is 9600' msl, or whatever, you can add 2000' to it for the ceiling. If the ground is below 8000 msl, then the 10,000' ceiling rules. 2. We have a speed limit below 10,000' msl of 250 kts. Above that you have to stay under mach 1. Very hard to see and avoid a small plane above 10,000' due to the speed increase. Note, that speed limit doesn't apply beyond the 12 mile limit off shore of a country boundry. Look out if crossing open water in Europe. But it does apply within 2000' of the ground above 10,000'. Still, military aircraft may just go fast.... Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Michel Verheughe wrote: > > Tom Jones wrote: > > You can go to 10000 MSL. You can go to 12000 MSL > and be at 2000 AGL when > > you cross the mountains that are 10000 feet high. > > Yes and, incidentally, 10,000 MSL is also the > ceiling for Norwegian (and maybe > other Europeans) microlights. I guess they don't > want us to go up in the sky with a bottle. ... no > , not whiskey, Kurt, a bottle of oxygen! > (Man, that guy is really one-track minded! :-) > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:47 AM PST US From: "jimshumaker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Spruce --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" Michel Try placing and order for both tailwheels on the internet and then compare the shipping weights. The wheels are lighter as has been stated earlier. Your maule tail wheel body probably just needs a washer on the bottom of the spindle to take up the slack. Jim Shumaker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Spruce > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Dcecil3@aol.com wrote: > > This is for the Guy trying to contact aircraft spruce.I've never gone more > > than a day befor getting a response. > > Well, it is not really helping, David. Because it would mean that Aircraft > Spruce answers only US calls. > Anyway, maybe somebody can help me answering this: > What is the weight of the "Homebuilder Special" tailwheel and is the wheel of > soft rubber? > The reason I ask is that the "hard rubber" Maule wheel I have now is ... hard > on asphalt. Originally I was thinking of changing for the pneumatic Maule, only > one pound heavier. But now, I don't know. > What do you say, guys? > > TIA, > Michel > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:03 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fact or Tales? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader I can't read their minds, but I think the KitFox creators (OK designers if you aren't a KF worshiper) probably were trying to deal with flutter. Michel. If you can't directly address the flutter problem try this indirect method. See if you get different results with your twisting when you compare the flat profile against a semetric profile of 12% or greater. I think the flat profile boundry layer needs the twist and will not roll, where the profile tail boundry layer is thinner and therefore will add a little roll to your results. Don't know if your program will show it or not though. Could be a good discussion point on your program site? The goal is to place one side against the upper boundry layer and the other side against the lower boundry layer to provide equal, but opposite forces on the elevator assembly. Equal but opposite forces are in balance. If the tail is riding totally in the boundry layer, it can flutter there, bouncing, as you say Michel, off the upper and then the lower airstream. The other solution is to have the elevator wedge shaped, wider and squared at the aft edge, to fill the boundry layer. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo. --- Ted Palamarek wrote: > > Mike, Michel & Kurt > > Wasn't the twist put into the elevator to take care > of the > "P" factor??? I believe that is the twisting moment > the > plane tries to take as a result of the way the air > comes > rearwards off the propeller or something like that. > I seem > to recall this from some long ago conversation. > > Ted P. > Edmonton > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > kurt schrader wrote: > > Can you simulate this on your computer? > > Good Lord! You're a bright chap, Kurt! Why didn't I > think of > that? > ... (one hour later) > Ok, I did that. I can, individually, change the AoA > of each > section (up to ten) > of a profile. I twisted my elevators two degrees up > on the > port side and two > degrees down on starboard. ... it doesn't make a > difference > in the plane > stability. As for the flutter, it is not simulated, > as you > may guess. That is, > simulation model flutter is an entirely different > aspect and > the real big > problem in simulation. But it is for all aspects of > modelling. Imagine that you > simulate a bouncing ball between your hand and the > ground. > As you move your > hand closer to the ground, the bouncing frequency > increases, > increases ... > until something stops. Simulate that in real-time > and you'll > get a problem! > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:18 AM PST US From: Tom Jones Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fact or Tales? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Tom Jones Here's an easy simulator. Fold up a simple paper airplane. Tear or cut slots on the trailing edge to make elevators. fold one side up and one side down and see what happens when you give it a toss through the air. Tom Jones > I can't read their minds, but I think the KitFox > creators (OK designers if you aren't a KF worshiper) > probably were trying to deal with flutter. > > Michel. If you can't directly address the flutter > problem try this indirect method. See if you get > different results with your twisting when you compare > the flat profile against a semetric profile of 12% or > greater. > > I think the flat profile boundry layer needs the twist > and will not roll, where the profile tail boundry > layer is thinner and therefore will add a little roll > to your results. Don't know if your program will show > it or not though. Could be a good discussion point on > your program site? > > The goal is to place one side against the upper > boundry layer and the other side against the lower > boundry layer to provide equal, but opposite forces on > the elevator assembly. Equal but opposite forces are > in balance. If the tail is riding totally in the > boundry layer, it can flutter there, bouncing, as you > say Michel, off the upper and then the lower > airstream. > > The other solution is to have the elevator wedge > shaped, wider and squared at the aft edge, to fill the > boundry layer. > > Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo. > > --- Ted Palamarek wrote: > > > > Mike, Michel & Kurt > > > > Wasn't the twist put into the elevator to take care > > of the > > "P" factor??? I believe that is the twisting moment > > the > > plane tries to take as a result of the way the air > > comes > > rearwards off the propeller or something like that. > > I seem > > to recall this from some long ago conversation. > > > > Ted P. > > Edmonton > > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > kurt schrader wrote: > > > Can you simulate this on your computer? > > > > Good Lord! You're a bright chap, Kurt! Why didn't I > > think of > > that? > > ... (one hour later) > > Ok, I did that. I can, individually, change the AoA > > of each > > section (up to ten) > > of a profile. I twisted my elevators two degrees up > > on the > > port side and two > > degrees down on starboard. ... it doesn't make a > > difference > > in the plane > > stability. As for the flutter, it is not simulated, > > as you > > may guess. That is, > > simulation model flutter is an entirely different > > aspect and > > the real big > > problem in simulation. But it is for all aspects of > > modelling. Imagine that you > > simulate a bouncing ball between your hand and the > > ground. > > As you move your > > hand closer to the ground, the bouncing frequency > > increases, > > increases ... > > until something stops. Simulate that in real-time > > and you'll > > get a problem! > > > > Cheers, > > Michel > > > > do not archive > > > __________________________________ > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:30 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Thanks Kurt. I recall something about the oil seal popping out and I think I bought one of those retainers back before my airplane was even flying, but I'll have to look around for it. My oil pressure runs about 75 lbs cold and 45 hot, but I can't see how that can have any effect on it. Isn't it the crankcase pressure that tries to force the seals out? I think (our late) Mike Harter had the same problem and he said the seal was rock hard, not flexible like it should have been. Replacement appears to me to be a complete engine removal, not something I wanted to do during the summer, but I guess if it's gotta be done, it's gotta be done. This is the first real problem I've had with my soob. Bummer. Darrel S5/NSI/CAP ----- Original Message ----- From: "kurt schrader" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > > Hi Darrel, > > It may have just backed out a bit. Operating at high > oil pressure for longer periods like we do is probably > the culprit. > > A while back there was someone selling home made oil > seal retainers for $30 to keep that from happening. > It was right when I was just joining the list, so I am > guessing that this has been a problem before. Thye > only had 2 left then and I didn't buy one, but you > might be able to make your own. Their's was a ring > with a tab that connects to a near by engine bolt. > > You also might be able to just tap it back in place if > you use a large socket/pipe to get it in straight, but > a better long term method is to drain the oil and > remove the seal and clean it up before replacing it. > > My Chilton's shows the seal, but it doesn't give a > part number. Sorry. Refer to a 1984 Soob Brat (?) at > your nearest dealer, if you replace it. It is the > auto front seal of course. :-) > > Best info I have for you. > > Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo > > --- Fox5flyer wrote: > > > > I went flying this morning for St Helens MI to have > > breakfast and and only > > got about ten miles before I smelled smoke (not > > good) so I turned around and > > went back home. After popping the cowling I found > > that my rear main oil > > seal was suddenly leaking badly so I'm grounded for > > awhile until I can pull > > the engine out and replace it. I'm off to Oshkosh > > in the morning so it'll > > have to wait. > > My question is can anybody give me the part number > > for the seal? Funny how > > it can suddenly start spewing oil like that. Maybe > > it popped out? Any > > input? > > Darrel > > S5/NSI/CAP > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:54 PM PST US From: "Peter Graichen" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" Darrel: The oil seal is available from your friendly Subaru dealer's parts department. You can look up the part number in your Subaru manual. But you should also install the oil seal retainer that is (or was) available from Joshie and Noel Simmons of Blue Sky Aviation. That will solve your problem for good as has for me. Hope to see you at Oshkosh. Peter Graichen http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" I went flying this morning for St Helens MI to have breakfast and and only got about ten miles before I smelled smoke (not good) so I turned around and went back home. After popping the cowling I found that my rear main oil seal was suddenly leaking badly so I'm grounded for awhile until I can pull the engine out and replace it. I'm off to Oshkosh in the morning so it'll have to wait. My question is can anybody give me the part number for the seal? Funny how it can suddenly start spewing oil like that. Maybe it popped out? Any input? Darrel S5/NSI/CAP ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:30 PM PST US From: "Richard Broom" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Confused --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Richard Broom" I ask the EAA about this after reading the published rule which says 10,000', then reading the synopsis on the EAA website which reads 10,000'MSL or 2,000 AGL, whichever is higher. According to the EAA, their website is wrong. 10,000' MSL is the absolute altitude limit. Bummer, I live in Colorado. Mike Broom Golden, CO No airplane yet -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Confused --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com "no flights above 10,000' MSL or 2,000' AGL, whichever is higher" The above comment is from a short version of the Sport Pilot rule and is giving me a complete brain loss. My field is at 43' sea level....Does the above mean I can fly at 10,000' MSL or am I limited to 2,000' AGL. For some reason, the above statement makes no sense. What am I missing? Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:16 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Thanks Peter. I'd forgotten that I've got a Soob service manual. I can probably get the part from NAPA locally since there're no Soob dealers within about 100 miles. I just did a shop search and found the retainer. Was there any problem removing the pulley? I'll be looking for you over at the NSI tent. If you get thirsty, look me up in Camp Scholler. I'll be listed in the locator as Darrel Morisse > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" > > Darrel: > The oil seal is available from your friendly Subaru dealer's parts > department. You can look up the part number in your Subaru manual. But you > should also install the oil seal retainer that is (or was) available from > Joshie and Noel Simmons of Blue Sky Aviation. That will solve your problem > for good as has for me. Hope to see you at Oshkosh. > > Peter Graichen > http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > I went flying this morning for St Helens MI to have breakfast and and only > got about ten miles before I smelled smoke (not good) so I turned around and > went back home. After popping the cowling I found that my rear main oil > seal was suddenly leaking badly so I'm grounded for awhile until I can pull > the engine out and replace it. I'm off to Oshkosh in the morning so it'll > have to wait. > My question is can anybody give me the part number for the seal? Funny how > it can suddenly start spewing oil like that. Maybe it popped out? Any > input? > Darrel > S5/NSI/CAP > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:16 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Oshkosh frequencies --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Does anybody have a current listing of the ATC frequencies that'll be used at Oshkosh? When I'm sitting around the camp I like to listen to the action on my handheld. Darrel ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:09 PM PST US From: "John E. King " Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oshkosh frequencies --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " Darrel, The Oshkosh VFR Arrival frequencies are as follows: Arrival ATIS 125.9 FISK Approach 120.7 North Tower RWY 09/27 118.5 South Tower RWY 18/36 126.6 Unicom 122.95 -- John King Warrenton, VA Fox5flyer wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > >Does anybody have a current listing of the ATC frequencies that'll be used >at Oshkosh? When I'm sitting around the camp I like to listen to the action >on my handheld. >Darrel > > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:50 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oshkosh frequencies --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Perfect! Thanks John. Hope to see you there. Darrel ----- Original Message ----- From: "John E. King " Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oshkosh frequencies > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " > > Darrel, > > The Oshkosh VFR Arrival frequencies are as follows: > > Arrival ATIS 125.9 > FISK Approach 120.7 > North Tower RWY 09/27 118.5 > South Tower RWY 18/36 126.6 > Unicom 122.95 > > -- > John King > Warrenton, VA > > > Fox5flyer wrote: > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > >Does anybody have a current listing of the ATC frequencies that'll be used > >at Oshkosh? When I'm sitting around the camp I like to listen to the action > >on my handheld. > >Darrel > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:44 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oshkosh anybody? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Lowell, how do I find you in the homebuilt area. Will you be camped with your Fox? White? I'm outta here first thing in the morning. Darrel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oshkosh anybody? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > Darrel, > > I know of four that will be hooking up in the Denver area that plan on > being there Sunday through Tuesday. Our group will be leaving the > Sacramento area of Northern California Tomorrow morning to hook up with > another at Afton Wyoming in the evening. Our group will consist of 4 or 5 > Kitfoxes - all Model IVs and two Rans - one a Coyote and the other a > Courier. Plans call for a Sunday evening arrival. Current plans call for a > Friday departure. We will be camping in the home built area. > > Lowell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fox5flyer" > To: > Subject: Kitfox-List: Oshkosh anybody? > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > > Even though I've got way to much on my plate I've finally made a decision > to > > drop everything and go to Oshkosh this year and I'll be staying in Camp > > Scholler registered in the camp locator as Darrel Morisse. Anyway some of > > us can meet up somewhere for some face time? Somewhere on the property or > > maybe the Acey Ducey bar (sp?)? It'd be a shame for all of us to be there > > and not make some sort of contact. Also, if you're staying in camp > > scholler, drop the list a quick line and I'll do my best to look you up. > > Make sure you register in the camp locator or we can't find you. I'll be > > arriving Sunday evening and leaving Friday morning. Hope to see some of > > you. > > Darrel > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:36 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Spruce/ Michel --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Thanks for your answers, guys. Eric, I "think" I'll have a more pleasant ride on asphalt with a pneumatic tyre. But maybe I am just kidding myself. Glenn, is it the 4 inches or the 6 inches tyre you purchased? Bill, I guess we are suffering of a "Oshkosh void," as Darrel points out. Richard, correct, I am in Norway and, last but not least: Jim, you're the smart guy of the day: Indeed, by trying to place an order, I found out that the 6 inches Homebuilder Special is only 4.5 pounds, less than the Maule that is 6 pounds and 7 pounds for the pneumatic one. Now, I don't want to add weight to my tail ... for the time being. But I might need to when I install a Jabiru ... argh, decisions, decisions! :-) Thanks all for your help, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:55 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: This is for the Guy trying to contact aircraft spruce --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Thanks David, I did get a response of sorts after posting. I just jumped in a bit quick supporting someone else that hadn't heard back. The only thing was they didn't answer my question re their product but instead informed me that they have appointed Terry Adair as agent for Australia and New Zealand. He is operating out of Melbourne and has a deal for cheap freight from USA to Australia. I have already been in touch with him and his service is very good. Anyone over this way can contact him at terryadair@netspace.net.au Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:00 PM PST US From: Dcecil3@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: This is for the Guy trying to contact aircraft spruce --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com Good to hear it Rex I've gotten pretty mad at them and once got an email from Jim Erwin CEO of ACS they've always made it right. Hope your man down there will be as good Good Luck David ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:04 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" The rear main seal is the large one on the flywheel end. The front seal is the small one on the end towards the aircraft firewall, neither of which do you need to remove the engine for. You will need to pull the flywheel if it the rear seal, no big deal. You will also need the special puller to remove the small redrive gear from the crank to remove the redrive. Then its a simple matter of removing the seal and putting in the new. You may even be able to get a slightly larger seal from a seal manufacturer. Give them the part number for the seal on you "dune buggy" and tell them you need the seal a thou or two larger O.D. Rick N656T -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter Graichen Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" Darrel: The oil seal is available from your friendly Subaru dealer's parts department. You can look up the part number in your Subaru manual. But you should also install the oil seal retainer that is (or was) available from Joshie and Noel Simmons of Blue Sky Aviation. That will solve your problem for good as has for me. Hope to see you at Oshkosh. Peter Graichen http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" I went flying this morning for St Helens MI to have breakfast and and only got about ten miles before I smelled smoke (not good) so I turned around and went back home. After popping the cowling I found that my rear main oil seal was suddenly leaking badly so I'm grounded for awhile until I can pull the engine out and replace it. I'm off to Oshkosh in the morning so it'll have to wait. My question is can anybody give me the part number for the seal? Funny how it can suddenly start spewing oil like that. Maybe it popped out? Any input? Darrel S5/NSI/CAP ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:48 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Thanks Rick. When I said "rear seal" I meant at the firewall end, which is actually the front seal, but only if it's sitting in a car, but it's not a car, it's in an airplane, so I'm calling it the rear seal. We confused yet? Anyway, you say I can replace it without removing the engine? That would sure be nice. Have you done it? Seems pretty tight back there. Don't I need to use a puller to get the pulley off? I've found the part number so I'll check NAPA for the part. I've also found an online Soob parts dealer that has it in stock. Shipping is more than the cost of the seal. I may just order it anyway so it'll be here when I get back from the Mecca. Darrel > > The rear main seal is the large one on the flywheel end. The front seal is > the small one on the end towards the aircraft firewall, neither of which do > you need to remove the engine for. You will need to pull the flywheel if it > the rear seal, no big deal. You will also need the special puller to remove > the small redrive gear from the crank to remove the redrive. Then its a > simple matter of removing the seal and putting in the new. You may even be > able to get a slightly larger seal from a seal manufacturer. Give them the > part number for the seal on you "dune buggy" and tell them you need the seal > a thou or two larger O.D. > > Rick N656T > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter > Graichen > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" > > Darrel: > The oil seal is available from your friendly Subaru dealer's parts > department. You can look up the part number in your Subaru manual. But you > should also install the oil seal retainer that is (or was) available from > Joshie and Noel Simmons of Blue Sky Aviation. That will solve your problem > for good as has for me. Hope to see you at Oshkosh. > > Peter Graichen > http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > I went flying this morning for St Helens MI to have breakfast and and only > got about ten miles before I smelled smoke (not good) so I turned around and > went back home. After popping the cowling I found that my rear main oil > seal was suddenly leaking badly so I'm grounded for awhile until I can pull > the engine out and replace it. I'm off to Oshkosh in the morning so it'll > have to wait. > My question is can anybody give me the part number for the seal? Funny how > it can suddenly start spewing oil like that. Maybe it popped out? Any > input? > Darrel > S5/NSI/CAP > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:35 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" You will need a puller. The NSI pulley is aluminum so be careful. There are threaded holes in the pulley, cant remember most likely standard not metric since it is NSI not Subaru. Those can be used with a simple puller. Be sure you get the keyway lined up on install and use flange sealant per manual on the bolt. Lube the seal inside not outside, use a large socket to set it even. Take your time. Get a step stool, mirror if need be and light. If you need any further I would be glad to help. Rick N656T -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Thanks Rick. When I said "rear seal" I meant at the firewall end, which is actually the front seal, but only if it's sitting in a car, but it's not a car, it's in an airplane, so I'm calling it the rear seal. We confused yet? Anyway, you say I can replace it without removing the engine? That would sure be nice. Have you done it? Seems pretty tight back there. Don't I need to use a puller to get the pulley off? I've found the part number so I'll check NAPA for the part. I've also found an online Soob parts dealer that has it in stock. Shipping is more than the cost of the seal. I may just order it anyway so it'll be here when I get back from the Mecca. Darrel > > The rear main seal is the large one on the flywheel end. The front seal is > the small one on the end towards the aircraft firewall, neither of which do > you need to remove the engine for. You will need to pull the flywheel if it > the rear seal, no big deal. You will also need the special puller to remove > the small redrive gear from the crank to remove the redrive. Then its a > simple matter of removing the seal and putting in the new. You may even be > able to get a slightly larger seal from a seal manufacturer. Give them the > part number for the seal on you "dune buggy" and tell them you need the seal > a thou or two larger O.D. > > Rick N656T > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter > Graichen > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" > > Darrel: > The oil seal is available from your friendly Subaru dealer's parts > department. You can look up the part number in your Subaru manual. But you > should also install the oil seal retainer that is (or was) available from > Joshie and Noel Simmons of Blue Sky Aviation. That will solve your problem > for good as has for me. Hope to see you at Oshkosh. > > Peter Graichen > http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > I went flying this morning for St Helens MI to have breakfast and and only > got about ten miles before I smelled smoke (not good) so I turned around and > went back home. After popping the cowling I found that my rear main oil > seal was suddenly leaking badly so I'm grounded for awhile until I can pull > the engine out and replace it. I'm off to Oshkosh in the morning so it'll > have to wait. > My question is can anybody give me the part number for the seal? Funny how > it can suddenly start spewing oil like that. Maybe it popped out? Any > input? > Darrel > S5/NSI/CAP > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:33 PM PST US From: "RICHARD HUTSON" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RICHARD HUTSON" Napa may have the puller that you can rent for a day, most auto parts stores have specially tools that they loan or rent to customers. Wouldn't hurt to ask... ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:40 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader I believe you are right Darrel. Crankcase pressure. That can't be very much pressure, or it would blow the dipstick out the tube though. It is a lot easier to pull out the stick than the seal. Think I was looking for a high pressure source to blame... I haven't done much to this engine or any Soob yet. Had a VW for many years and worked on it a lot though. Those VW seals leaked too, especially if I used Mobile 1. Gave me clutch chatter when it came out that end. One thing that surprised me was how much the seal wore the crankshaft though. It made a pretty good groove. I will probably need a seal retainer some time too. After I put in the SS valves. After I finish the scoop, fairings and testing.... Glad you found your retainer and hope that you can do it all with the engine on the plane too. Have fun at OSH. I started vacation today myself, but am too far behind to take it up there at OSH like I planned. First time in many years that I'll miss it. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo Do not archive __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail