Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:50 AM - Re: Fact or Tales? (Michel Verheughe)
2. 03:54 AM - Re: NSI Oil Seal (Fox5flyer)
3. 03:55 AM - Re: NSI Oil Seal (Fox5flyer)
4. 08:00 AM - Re: Fact or Tales? (Michel Verheughe)
5. 08:14 AM - Re: Fact or Tales? (Michel Verheughe)
6. 08:19 AM - Re: NSI Oil Seal (Steve Zakreski)
7. 02:07 PM - Re: Aircraft Spruce/ Michel (Glenn Horne)
8. 05:35 PM - Re: NSI Oil Seal (Rick)
9. 08:00 PM - For what its worth, I E-mailed Aircraft Spruce with a request for more (Rex & Jan Shaw)
10. 08:33 PM - Re: For what its worth, I E-mailed Aircraft Spruce with a request for more (jimshumaker)
11. 08:41 PM - Re: Fact or Tales? (jimshumaker)
12. 09:53 PM - Re: "P" factor-was Fact or Tales? (kurt schrader)
13. 10:05 PM - Re: For what its worth, (Steve Zakreski)
14. 10:17 PM - Re: Fact or Tales? (kurt schrader)
15. 10:26 PM - Re: NSI idle RPM (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fact or Tales? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
kurt schrader wrote:
> See if you get
> different results with your twisting when you compare
> the flat profile against a semetric profile of 12% or
> greater.
I just did that, Kurt. In the simulator, I "twisted" one elevator 8 degrees up,
and the other, 8 degrees down. This is much more than what I have on my real
plane but it is for the sake of the experience.
In that configuration, indeed, the plane rolls to the left and I need right
ailerons to keep her on a straight keel (s'cuse my maritime lingo, Ma'am! :-)
However - and this is the interesting point of simulation - look at what I get
when I set the simulator to show the actual lift, drag and moment of each
section of airfoil:
http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/tail.jpg
You can see the exaggerated twist in the tail. The green lines are the lift for
each section (the white lines are for the sections of the prop).
Note that the lift on the tail is very little compared to what I get out of the
wing and notice how the lift on the inboard side of the right wing is much
bigger than the left. That is due to the prop wash and the fact that my
left-hand prop pushes air under the right wing much more than the left, which
is in the shadow of the fuselage when it comes to the helicoidal prop wash.
You'll also see that lift decreases along the wings as you move toward the
tips. That's due to the washout of the wings.
Of course, take all this with a big grain of salt, this is only a simulator,
not reality. But, in my humble opinion, a good simulator.
My conclusion from this experiment is that, whatever twist and asymmetry we
have in the elevators, it doesn't affect in any noticeable way the plane, while
it prevents the flutter of the flat shaped flaperons.
What do you think?
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: NSI Oil Seal |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Thanks Rick. I just ordered the seal online from
https://ssl.autocenter.net/subaruparts so it should be here when I get home
next week. I think I have the puller that I need.
Darrel
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
> You will need a puller. The NSI pulley is aluminum so be careful. There
are
> threaded holes in the pulley, cant remember most likely standard not
metric
> since it is NSI not Subaru. Those can be used with a simple puller. Be
sure
> you get the keyway lined up on install and use flange sealant per manual
on
> the bolt. Lube the seal inside not outside, use a large socket to set it
> even. Take your time. Get a step stool, mirror if need be and light. If
you
> need any further I would be glad to help.
>
> Rick N656T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Thanks Rick. When I said "rear seal" I meant at the firewall end, which
is
> actually the front seal, but only if it's sitting in a car, but it's not a
> car, it's in an airplane, so I'm calling it the rear seal. We confused
yet?
> Anyway, you say I can replace it without removing the engine? That would
> sure be nice. Have you done it? Seems pretty tight back there. Don't I
> need to use a puller to get the pulley off? I've found the part number so
> I'll check NAPA for the part. I've also found an online Soob parts dealer
> that has it in stock. Shipping is more than the cost of the seal. I may
> just order it anyway so it'll be here when I get back from the Mecca.
> Darrel
> >
> > The rear main seal is the large one on the flywheel end. The front seal
> is
> > the small one on the end towards the aircraft firewall, neither of which
> do
> > you need to remove the engine for. You will need to pull the flywheel if
> it
> > the rear seal, no big deal. You will also need the special puller to
> remove
> > the small redrive gear from the crank to remove the redrive. Then its a
> > simple matter of removing the seal and putting in the new. You may even
be
> > able to get a slightly larger seal from a seal manufacturer. Give them
the
> > part number for the seal on you "dune buggy" and tell them you need the
> seal
> > a thou or two larger O.D.
> >
> > Rick N656T
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter
> > Graichen
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" <n10pg@neo.rr.com>
> >
> > Darrel:
> > The oil seal is available from your friendly Subaru dealer's parts
> > department. You can look up the part number in your Subaru manual. But
you
> > should also install the oil seal retainer that is (or was) available
from
> > Joshie and Noel Simmons of Blue Sky Aviation. That will solve your
problem
> > for good as has for me. Hope to see you at Oshkosh.
> >
> > Peter Graichen
> > http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
<morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> >
> > I went flying this morning for St Helens MI to have breakfast and and
only
> > got about ten miles before I smelled smoke (not good) so I turned around
> and
> > went back home. After popping the cowling I found that my rear main oil
> > seal was suddenly leaking badly so I'm grounded for awhile until I can
> pull
> > the engine out and replace it. I'm off to Oshkosh in the morning so
it'll
> > have to wait.
> > My question is can anybody give me the part number for the seal? Funny
> how
> > it can suddenly start spewing oil like that. Maybe it popped out? Any
> > input?
> > Darrel
> > S5/NSI/CAP
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: NSI Oil Seal |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Any particular brand of flange sealant you'd recommend?
Darrel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
> You will need a puller. The NSI pulley is aluminum so be careful. There
are
> threaded holes in the pulley, cant remember most likely standard not
metric
> since it is NSI not Subaru. Those can be used with a simple puller. Be
sure
> you get the keyway lined up on install and use flange sealant per manual
on
> the bolt. Lube the seal inside not outside, use a large socket to set it
> even. Take your time. Get a step stool, mirror if need be and light. If
you
> need any further I would be glad to help.
>
> Rick N656T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Thanks Rick. When I said "rear seal" I meant at the firewall end, which
is
> actually the front seal, but only if it's sitting in a car, but it's not a
> car, it's in an airplane, so I'm calling it the rear seal. We confused
yet?
> Anyway, you say I can replace it without removing the engine? That would
> sure be nice. Have you done it? Seems pretty tight back there. Don't I
> need to use a puller to get the pulley off? I've found the part number so
> I'll check NAPA for the part. I've also found an online Soob parts dealer
> that has it in stock. Shipping is more than the cost of the seal. I may
> just order it anyway so it'll be here when I get back from the Mecca.
> Darrel
> >
> > The rear main seal is the large one on the flywheel end. The front seal
> is
> > the small one on the end towards the aircraft firewall, neither of which
> do
> > you need to remove the engine for. You will need to pull the flywheel if
> it
> > the rear seal, no big deal. You will also need the special puller to
> remove
> > the small redrive gear from the crank to remove the redrive. Then its a
> > simple matter of removing the seal and putting in the new. You may even
be
> > able to get a slightly larger seal from a seal manufacturer. Give them
the
> > part number for the seal on you "dune buggy" and tell them you need the
> seal
> > a thou or two larger O.D.
> >
> > Rick N656T
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter
> > Graichen
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" <n10pg@neo.rr.com>
> >
> > Darrel:
> > The oil seal is available from your friendly Subaru dealer's parts
> > department. You can look up the part number in your Subaru manual. But
you
> > should also install the oil seal retainer that is (or was) available
from
> > Joshie and Noel Simmons of Blue Sky Aviation. That will solve your
problem
> > for good as has for me. Hope to see you at Oshkosh.
> >
> > Peter Graichen
> > http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
<morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> >
> > I went flying this morning for St Helens MI to have breakfast and and
only
> > got about ten miles before I smelled smoke (not good) so I turned around
> and
> > went back home. After popping the cowling I found that my rear main oil
> > seal was suddenly leaking badly so I'm grounded for awhile until I can
> pull
> > the engine out and replace it. I'm off to Oshkosh in the morning so
it'll
> > have to wait.
> > My question is can anybody give me the part number for the seal? Funny
> how
> > it can suddenly start spewing oil like that. Maybe it popped out? Any
> > input?
> > Darrel
> > S5/NSI/CAP
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fact or Tales? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Tom Jones wrote:
> Here's an easy simulator. Fold up a simple paper airplane.
Paper airplane are cool, Tom. One caveat, though, the Reynolds number and ...
no, Kurt, I am not talking about Burt's address in Hollywood! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fact or Tales? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Hello Ted,
Ted Palamarek wrote:
> Wasn't the twist put into the elevator to take care of the
> "P" factor???
I am not sure of this since, as you remember, I am a rookie with not even 100
hours behind the stick. But, from my amateur digital aero-dynamist experience,
I seem to understand that the P-factor is actual when the prop is at an angle
of incidence and the downward prop blade has a greater lift since it has less
air passing it than the upward moving prop blade. A bit like an helicopter that
changes the blades' pitch as it moves in front, or behind the direction in
which the craft moves.
This should then create, on my left-hand prop 582, a higher prop lift on my
left, thus inducing yaw to turn to the right. I think that this, and the prop
wash on the vertical stabilizer, is the reason we have to press the left pedal
under take off.
Mind you, I might be wrong and say something stupid. But I think that, if
anything, the P-factor induces yaw and not roll. Let's see what the pros have
to say.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Keep good notes Darrel. Mine looks like it is starting to drip.
SteveZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Thanks Rick. I just ordered the seal online from
https://ssl.autocenter.net/subaruparts so it should be here when I get home
next week. I think I have the puller that I need.
Darrel
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
> You will need a puller. The NSI pulley is aluminum so be careful. There
are
> threaded holes in the pulley, cant remember most likely standard not
metric
> since it is NSI not Subaru. Those can be used with a simple puller. Be
sure
> you get the keyway lined up on install and use flange sealant per manual
on
> the bolt. Lube the seal inside not outside, use a large socket to set it
> even. Take your time. Get a step stool, mirror if need be and light. If
you
> need any further I would be glad to help.
>
> Rick N656T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Thanks Rick. When I said "rear seal" I meant at the firewall end, which
is
> actually the front seal, but only if it's sitting in a car, but it's not a
> car, it's in an airplane, so I'm calling it the rear seal. We confused
yet?
> Anyway, you say I can replace it without removing the engine? That would
> sure be nice. Have you done it? Seems pretty tight back there. Don't I
> need to use a puller to get the pulley off? I've found the part number so
> I'll check NAPA for the part. I've also found an online Soob parts dealer
> that has it in stock. Shipping is more than the cost of the seal. I may
> just order it anyway so it'll be here when I get back from the Mecca.
> Darrel
> >
> > The rear main seal is the large one on the flywheel end. The front seal
> is
> > the small one on the end towards the aircraft firewall, neither of which
> do
> > you need to remove the engine for. You will need to pull the flywheel if
> it
> > the rear seal, no big deal. You will also need the special puller to
> remove
> > the small redrive gear from the crank to remove the redrive. Then its a
> > simple matter of removing the seal and putting in the new. You may even
be
> > able to get a slightly larger seal from a seal manufacturer. Give them
the
> > part number for the seal on you "dune buggy" and tell them you need the
> seal
> > a thou or two larger O.D.
> >
> > Rick N656T
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter
> > Graichen
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" <n10pg@neo.rr.com>
> >
> > Darrel:
> > The oil seal is available from your friendly Subaru dealer's parts
> > department. You can look up the part number in your Subaru manual. But
you
> > should also install the oil seal retainer that is (or was) available
from
> > Joshie and Noel Simmons of Blue Sky Aviation. That will solve your
problem
> > for good as has for me. Hope to see you at Oshkosh.
> >
> > Peter Graichen
> > http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
<morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> >
> > I went flying this morning for St Helens MI to have breakfast and and
only
> > got about ten miles before I smelled smoke (not good) so I turned around
> and
> > went back home. After popping the cowling I found that my rear main oil
> > seal was suddenly leaking badly so I'm grounded for awhile until I can
> pull
> > the engine out and replace it. I'm off to Oshkosh in the morning so
it'll
> > have to wait.
> > My question is can anybody give me the part number for the seal? Funny
> how
> > it can suddenly start spewing oil like that. Maybe it popped out? Any
> > input?
> > Darrel
> > S5/NSI/CAP
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Aircraft Spruce/ Michel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" <glennflys@rcn.com>
6 inch tire.
Glenn
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aircraft Spruce/ Michel
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Thanks for your answers, guys.
Eric, I "think" I'll have a more pleasant ride on asphalt with a pneumatic
tyre. But maybe I am just kidding myself.
Glenn, is it the 4 inches or the 6 inches tyre you purchased?
Bill, I guess we are suffering of a "Oshkosh void," as Darrel points out.
Richard, correct, I am in Norway and, last but not least:
Jim, you're the smart guy of the day: Indeed, by trying to place an order, I
found out that the 6 inches Homebuilder Special is only 4.5 pounds, less
than
the Maule that is 6 pounds and 7 pounds for the pneumatic one.
Now, I don't want to add weight to my tail ... for the time being. But I
might
need to when I install a Jabiru ... argh, decisions, decisions! :-)
Thanks all for your help,
Michel
do not archive
Message 8
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
You can get the loctite stuff, a bit pricy or get thread sealer from NAPP or
local store. The reason you need to seal the threads is the holes go thought
the output flange and into the crankcase.
Rick N656T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Any particular brand of flange sealant you'd recommend?
Darrel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
> You will need a puller. The NSI pulley is aluminum so be careful. There
are
> threaded holes in the pulley, cant remember most likely standard not
metric
> since it is NSI not Subaru. Those can be used with a simple puller. Be
sure
> you get the keyway lined up on install and use flange sealant per manual
on
> the bolt. Lube the seal inside not outside, use a large socket to set it
> even. Take your time. Get a step stool, mirror if need be and light. If
you
> need any further I would be glad to help.
>
> Rick N656T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Thanks Rick. When I said "rear seal" I meant at the firewall end, which
is
> actually the front seal, but only if it's sitting in a car, but it's not a
> car, it's in an airplane, so I'm calling it the rear seal. We confused
yet?
> Anyway, you say I can replace it without removing the engine? That would
> sure be nice. Have you done it? Seems pretty tight back there. Don't I
> need to use a puller to get the pulley off? I've found the part number so
> I'll check NAPA for the part. I've also found an online Soob parts dealer
> that has it in stock. Shipping is more than the cost of the seal. I may
> just order it anyway so it'll be here when I get back from the Mecca.
> Darrel
> >
> > The rear main seal is the large one on the flywheel end. The front seal
> is
> > the small one on the end towards the aircraft firewall, neither of which
> do
> > you need to remove the engine for. You will need to pull the flywheel if
> it
> > the rear seal, no big deal. You will also need the special puller to
> remove
> > the small redrive gear from the crank to remove the redrive. Then its a
> > simple matter of removing the seal and putting in the new. You may even
be
> > able to get a slightly larger seal from a seal manufacturer. Give them
the
> > part number for the seal on you "dune buggy" and tell them you need the
> seal
> > a thou or two larger O.D.
> >
> > Rick N656T
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter
> > Graichen
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Peter Graichen" <n10pg@neo.rr.com>
> >
> > Darrel:
> > The oil seal is available from your friendly Subaru dealer's parts
> > department. You can look up the part number in your Subaru manual. But
you
> > should also install the oil seal retainer that is (or was) available
from
> > Joshie and Noel Simmons of Blue Sky Aviation. That will solve your
problem
> > for good as has for me. Hope to see you at Oshkosh.
> >
> > Peter Graichen
> > http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
<morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> >
> > I went flying this morning for St Helens MI to have breakfast and and
only
> > got about ten miles before I smelled smoke (not good) so I turned around
> and
> > went back home. After popping the cowling I found that my rear main oil
> > seal was suddenly leaking badly so I'm grounded for awhile until I can
> pull
> > the engine out and replace it. I'm off to Oshkosh in the morning so
it'll
> > have to wait.
> > My question is can anybody give me the part number for the seal? Funny
> how
> > it can suddenly start spewing oil like that. Maybe it popped out? Any
> > input?
> > Darrel
> > S5/NSI/CAP
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | For what its worth, I E-mailed Aircraft Spruce with a request |
for more
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
For what its worth, I E-mailed Aircraft Spruce with a request for more
information on the Maul P8B tundra tailwheel about two weeks ago and have
had no
response as well.
As stated elswhere I also was trying to contact Aircraft Spruce too. I
eventually got a message from them re a local agent. Despite that however I
still have not been able to actually get an answer to my question. My
question was also re a replacement, pneumatic for preference, tailwheel for
my Kitfox MKIV Classic Speedster. I might be dense or just not sure if the
original is Maule or not but I can't work out from the list if the wheel
that is being used will replace the standard solid wheel only or if one
needs to change the whole tail wheel assembly. One can do this through
Skystar but it is several hundred dollars and I thought what the group weas
talking about was a low cost answer.
A rough measurement is only about 4" from the centre of the axle to the
support bracket where it passes the tyre and I haven't been able to find a
tyre or tyre and wheel that will fit in that space.
My reason for wanting a pneumatic wheel is that a lot have said it is less
prone to ground loops. Also the original is very noisy and rough.
I think there is a few of us interested in clarification if someone can
do so please.
Rex Shaw
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: For what its worth, I E-mailed Aircraft Spruce with a |
request for more
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Rex
What tailwheel do you have now? If you do not know then we cannot answer
your question.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: For what its worth, I E-mailed Aircraft Spruce with a
request for more
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
>
> For what its worth, I E-mailed Aircraft Spruce with a request for more
> information on the Maul P8B tundra tailwheel about two weeks ago and have
> had no
> response as well.
>
> As stated elswhere I also was trying to contact Aircraft Spruce too. I
> eventually got a message from them re a local agent. Despite that however
I
> still have not been able to actually get an answer to my question. My
> question was also re a replacement, pneumatic for preference, tailwheel
for
> my Kitfox MKIV Classic Speedster. I might be dense or just not sure if the
> original is Maule or not but I can't work out from the list if the wheel
> that is being used will replace the standard solid wheel only or if one
> needs to change the whole tail wheel assembly. One can do this through
> Skystar but it is several hundred dollars and I thought what the group
weas
> talking about was a low cost answer.
> A rough measurement is only about 4" from the centre of the axle to the
> support bracket where it passes the tyre and I haven't been able to find a
> tyre or tyre and wheel that will fit in that space.
> My reason for wanting a pneumatic wheel is that a lot have said it is
less
> prone to ground loops. Also the original is very noisy and rough.
> I think there is a few of us interested in clarification if someone can
> do so please.
>
> Rex Shaw
> rexjan@bigpond.com
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fact or Tales? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
You are correct Michel,
P factor creates yaw from the greater angle of attack of the downward moving
blade.
Torque creates roll as drag of the prop tries to twist the plane in the
opposite direction of the applied force.
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fact or Tales?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> Hello Ted,
>
> Ted Palamarek wrote:
> > Wasn't the twist put into the elevator to take care of the
> > "P" factor???
>
> I am not sure of this since, as you remember, I am a rookie with not even
100
> hours behind the stick. But, from my amateur digital aero-dynamist
experience,
> I seem to understand that the P-factor is actual when the prop is at an
angle
> of incidence and the downward prop blade has a greater lift since it has
less
> air passing it than the upward moving prop blade. A bit like an helicopter
that
> changes the blades' pitch as it moves in front, or behind the direction in
> which the craft moves.
> This should then create, on my left-hand prop 582, a higher prop lift on
my
> left, thus inducing yaw to turn to the right. I think that this, and the
prop
> wash on the vertical stabilizer, is the reason we have to press the left
pedal
> under take off.
> Mind you, I might be wrong and say something stupid. But I think that, if
> anything, the P-factor induces yaw and not roll. Let's see what the pros
have
> to say.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: "P" factor-was Fact or Tales? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
OK, now you all have me confused. :-) But I can
confuse you back with the following:
The "P" factor only occurs when the prop arc is not
exactly 90 degrees to the wind. (Pitch or yaw) Or
you can say that the prop shaft is not pointed
directly into the wind, if that seems easier. If the
prop is spinning 90 degrees to the wind, it developes
the same thrust/lift entirely around its rotation and
pulls the plane evenly forward. No "P" or prop
factor.
"P" factor occurs when, say you are taking off or
climbing, and the aircraft centerline is pointed up
relative to the wind. This also points the prop shaft
up relative to the wind too. This upward angle is
like changing the prop pitch because it changes the
prop's angle of attack.
If a prop blade is momentarily horizontal to the plane
as the prop turns, the downward moving blade will have
the prop pitch plus the plane's angle of attack to
bite the air with. As the blade moves upward on the
other side, it has its pitch minus the plane's angle
of attack to work with.
Imagine that your plane is at 10 degrees angle of
attack at liftoff and the prop just happens to have 10
degrees of pitch. The downward moving blade will have
20 degrees angle of attack and the upward moving blade
will have zero. Essentially all of your thrust will
be on the side with the downward moving blade. (The
other side is creating drag in this example, but lets
not get too complex here.) As each blade rotates, it
will appear to the wind to change its pitch from zero
to 20 degrees and back again to zero as it rotates.
The blade doesn't really change itself, but the air
thinks it did.
So now your thrust is off center and you are pulled
into a turn. Note that rudder, not any twisted
horizontal surfaces are needed to correct this. It is
a little like powering down one engine on a twin
engine airplane. The thrust goes off center.
Same with yawing or slipping, except that you will
have a pitch up or pitch down tendancy depending on
which side you yaw to. Either the top or bottom blade
will have the increast pitch and the most thrust.
Then it gets really confusing when you add gyroscopic
precession... Slip stream rotation..... Torque...
etc....
Tail surface twisting and slip stream rotation or
torque might fit together, but usually the twist is
only on the verticle surfaces.
Michel. You are almost right. This statement is not
quite it though:
> "...the downward prop blade has a greater lift
> since it has less air passing it than the upward
> moving prop blade."
It isn't "less air passing it", but just more or less
pitch to move more or less air.
Ok, now I've lost it too.... :-)
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
>
> Hello Ted,
>
> Ted Palamarek wrote:
> > Wasn't the twist put into the elevator to take
> care of the
> > "P" factor???
>
> I am not sure of this since, as you remember, I am a
> rookie with not even 100
> hours behind the stick. But, from my amateur digital
> aero-dynamist experience,
> I seem to understand that the P-factor is actual
> when the prop is at an angle
> of incidence and the downward prop blade has a
> greater lift since it has less
> air passing it than the upward moving prop blade. A
> bit like an helicopter that
> changes the blades' pitch as it moves in front, or
> behind the direction in
> which the craft moves.
> This should then create, on my left-hand prop 582, a
> higher prop lift on my
> left, thus inducing yaw to turn to the right. I
> think that this, and the prop
> wash on the vertical stabilizer, is the reason we
> have to press the left pedal
> under take off.
> Mind you, I might be wrong and say something stupid.
> But I think that, if
> anything, the P-factor induces yaw and not roll.
> Let's see what the pros have
> to say.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
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Message 13
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for more
| Subject: | For what its worth, |
I E-mailed Aircraft Spruce with a request for more
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca> I E-mailed
Aircraft Spruce with a request for more
Rex
When did your kit ship from Skystar? That may narrow down the manufacturer.
SteveZ
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rex & Jan
Shaw
Subject: Kitfox-List: For what its worth, I E-mailed Aircraft Spruce
with a request for more
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
For what its worth, I E-mailed Aircraft Spruce with a request for more
information on the Maul P8B tundra tailwheel about two weeks ago and have
had no
response as well.
As stated elswhere I also was trying to contact Aircraft Spruce too. I
eventually got a message from them re a local agent. Despite that however I
still have not been able to actually get an answer to my question. My
question was also re a replacement, pneumatic for preference, tailwheel for
my Kitfox MKIV Classic Speedster. I might be dense or just not sure if the
original is Maule or not but I can't work out from the list if the wheel
that is being used will replace the standard solid wheel only or if one
needs to change the whole tail wheel assembly. One can do this through
Skystar but it is several hundred dollars and I thought what the group weas
talking about was a low cost answer.
A rough measurement is only about 4" from the centre of the axle to the
support bracket where it passes the tyre and I haven't been able to find a
tyre or tyre and wheel that will fit in that space.
My reason for wanting a pneumatic wheel is that a lot have said it is less
prone to ground loops. Also the original is very noisy and rough.
I think there is a few of us interested in clarification if someone can
do so please.
Rex Shaw
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fact or Tales? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Michel,
You do good work on your magic computer. Must be the
hydro power.... Several minor points:
I meant to say that the slight tail twist will
probably not give any roll with a flat tail plane, but
may with an airfoil sectioned tail. This is due to
the difference in the boundry layer between the two
tails. I don't know if your program simulates that
though. If it does, it would confirm that the twist
is necessary only on the flat tail and is for flutter,
not any roll control.
The other way is to see if anyone has a purposely
twisted tail with the airfoil profile. (?)
Several jets do use differential tails for roll
control though. But they have big tails and use a lot
of twisting pitch to do it.
The lift distribution decreases toward the wingtips,
not just from washout, but also from the fact that the
wing ends there and the air flows in 3 dimensions
around the tip. It can escape the high pressure
underneath by rotating around the tip and filling in
some of that low pressure above, thereby reducing the
lift. You know - tip vortex stuff.
Gosh we are getting complex now. Anyone else still
awake and reading thru this?
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
>
> kurt schrader wrote:
> > See if you get different results with your
> > twisting when you compare the flat profile against
> > a semetric profile of 12% or greater.
>
>
> I just did that, Kurt. In the simulator, I "twisted"
> one elevator 8 degrees up, and the other, 8 degrees
> down.
> .....
> However - and this is the interesting point of
> simulation - look at what I get
> when I set the simulator to show the actual lift,
> drag and moment of each section of airfoil:
>
> http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/tail.jpg
>
> Note that the lift on the tail is very little
> compared to what I get out of the wing ...
> You'll also see that lift decreases along the wings
> as you move toward the
> tips. That's due to the washout of the wings.
>
> ......
> My conclusion from this experiment is that, whatever
> twist and asymmetry we have in the elevators,
> it doesn't affect in any noticeable way the plane,
> while it prevents the flutter of the flat shaped
> flaperons. (You meant elevators)
> What do you think?
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: NSI idle RPM |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Howard,
Your oil cooler inlet is twice as big as mine is now,
even after I enlarged it. You shouldn't have any oil
overheating, but I see what you mean about maybe
cutting some off for winter ops.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Howard Firm <pianome2@mchsi.com> wrote:
> ..........
> My inlet is 4.5" high by 7" wide....I also had to
> make a little bump under it for the oil lines.
> ..........
> Howard S-5 w/NSI turbo
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