---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/26/04: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:31 AM - SV: Fact or Tales? (Michel Verheughe) 2. 02:28 AM - SV: "P" factor (Michel Verheughe) 3. 02:43 AM - Tailwheels WAS For what its worth (Michel Verheughe) 4. 06:26 AM - Re: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth (flier) 5. 07:39 AM - warpdrive (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 6. 08:34 AM - Re: warpdrive (jdmcbean) 7. 11:55 AM - Re: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth (Clem Nichols) 8. 12:47 PM - Re: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth (flier) 9. 05:31 PM - When did your kit ship from Skystar? That may narrow down the manufacturer (Rex & Jan Shaw) 10. 05:35 PM - What tailwheel do you have now? If you do not know then we cannot answer (Rex & Jan Shaw) 11. 07:02 PM - Re: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth Michel &Rex (Ceashman@aol.com) 12. 07:39 PM - Re: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth Michel &Rex (Flier) 13. 08:05 PM - Re: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth Michel &Rex (Clem Nichols) 14. 09:10 PM - Ground loop (gjglh@itlnet.net) 15. 10:16 PM - Re: What tailwheel do you have now? If you do not know then we cannot answer (jimshumaker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:37 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Fact or Tales? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: kurt schrader [smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com] > I meant to say that the slight tail twist will > probably not give any roll with a flat tail plane, but > may with an airfoil sectioned tail. Yes, this is what I understand too, Kurt. A flat profile has considerably less lift than a cambered one and therefore the force exerced is much less. My simulator can reproduce that in the way that I make my own profiles with lift, drag and moment. For my virtual Kitfox, I made vertical and horizontal stabs that have low lift coefficient. It is noticeable as you change heading and/or pitch and the plane is slow at coming back to the initial position. Something I also experience with the real Kitfox. > The lift distribution decreases toward the wingtips, > not just from washout, but also from the fact that the > wing ends there and the air flows in 3 dimensions > around the tip. Yes, this is quite true, although I believe that my drooping wing tips are there just to reduce the wing tip vortexes. But the issue has been many times discussed on this simulator list and apparently it is well simulated as it checks if wing sections are joined (prevent vortex) or separated (slip the air), until the last section. But, unfortunately, my drooped wing tips are not simulated as it should. To do that, one should predict the air flow and that requires Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) that can't be done in real-time simulation. > Gosh we are getting complex now. Anyone else still > awake and reading thru this? Yes, I am, Kurt, and still enjoying it. For years, I have talked about aero-dynamism with amateur theoricians, now I can talk about it with the guys who are actually doing it! Thanks for sharing! Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:06 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: "P" factor --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: kurt schrader [smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com] > It isn't "less air passing it", but just more or less > pitch to move more or less air. I think we all agree, Jim and Kurt. The reason I wrote "less air passing it" is that, in a previous discussion with my simulator friends, we were explained the P-factor as a comparison to an helicopter's rotor where one blade is going in the direction of the flight (thus increasing the air speed passing it) while the other is going the other way. Of course, the helo is an exaggerated (nearly 90 degrees) example of the P-factor but something that worked for my comprehension of it. Also, the difference of air speed passing the blade is the difference of pitch above-mentionned. Just a way of saying the same thing in a different manner, I think. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:29 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Rex & Jan Shaw [rexjan@bigpond.com] > A rough measurement is only about 4" from the centre of the axle to the > support bracket From that info, I think you have the Homebuilder Special, Rex. Reading Aircraft Spruce web pages, I figured out this: 1) Homebuilder Special 4" weight: ? tyre: soft rubber 2) Homebulder Special 6" weight: 4.5 lbs tyre: soft rubber 3) Maule 6" Weight: 6 lbs. tyre: hard rubber 4) Maule 8" Weight: 7 lbs. tyre: pneumatic Like you, I wish to change to a pneumatic tyre for less noise on asphalt and ... less ground loop is cool too! :-) But, as far as I know, none of the above tyres are interchangeable, you have to purchase the whole assembly. Glenn, thanks for your info on 6". Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:59 AM PST US From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" I just installed the homebuilder tailwheel on my Maule assy yesterday. Works like a charm. The Maule bearings are 1/2" ID while the homebuilder is 5/8" ID. Short piece of 5/8" (1/16" wall) steel tube made a perfect bushing. Then a 1/2" flat washer under the nut. 20 minute job max. Regards, Ted --- Original Message --- From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > >> From: Rex & Jan Shaw [rexjan@bigpond.com] >> A rough measurement is only about 4" from the centre of the axle to the >> support bracket > >From that info, I think you have the Homebuilder Special, Rex. Reading Aircraft Spruce web pages, I figured out this: >1) Homebuilder Special 4" weight: ? tyre: soft rubber >2) Homebulder Special 6" weight: 4.5 lbs tyre: soft rubber >3) Maule 6" Weight: 6 lbs. tyre: hard rubber >4) Maule 8" Weight: 7 lbs. tyre: pneumatic > >Like you, I wish to change to a pneumatic tyre for less noise on asphalt and ... less ground loop is cool too! :-) >But, as far as I know, none of the above tyres are interchangeable, you have to purchase the whole assembly. > >Glenn, thanks for your info on 6". > >Cheers, >Michel > > >_- ====================================================== ================== Contributions any other Forums. >_- ====================================================== ================== >_- ====================================================== ================== http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare list http://www.matronics.com/emaillists http://www.matronics.com/contribution >_- ====================================================== ================== > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:48 AM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Kitfox-List: warpdrive 0.5 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net I have a friend with a series V, subaru, and IVO(really heavy chord) that is not satisfied with performance and suspecting that the prop is not appropriate fit for plane. Does anyone know of a used warp drive 3-blade for sale? I have a friend with a series V, subaru, and IVO(really heavy chord) that is not satisfied with performance and suspecting that the prop is not appropriate fit for plane. Does anyone know of a used warp drive 3-blade for sale? ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:45 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: warpdrive --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" I have a new Warp that needs to go away. Blue Skies John & Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Kitfox-List: warpdrive --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net I have a friend with a series V, subaru, and IVO(really heavy chord) that is not satisfied with performance and suspecting that the prop is not appropriate fit for plane. Does anyone know of a used warp drive 3-blade for sale? I have a friend with a series V, subaru, and IVO(really heavy chord) that is not satisfied with performance and suspecting that the prop is not appropriate fit for plane. Does anyone know of a used warp drive 3-blade for sale? ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:55:32 AM PST US From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" Michel: From this message it would seem that your interpretation of having to replace the entire tailwheel assembly in order to use the Homebuilder's tire is incorrect. I had been given the same impression by another group member. Do not archive Clem Nichols ----- Original Message ----- From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" > > I just installed the homebuilder tailwheel on my > Maule assy yesterday. Works like a charm. The Maule > bearings are 1/2" ID while the homebuilder is 5/8" > ID. Short piece of 5/8" (1/16" wall) steel tube made > a perfect bushing. Then a 1/2" flat washer under the > nut. 20 minute job max. > > Regards, > > Ted > > > --- Original Message --- > From: Michel Verheughe > To: > Subject: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its > worth > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > > >> From: Rex & Jan Shaw [rexjan@bigpond.com] > >> A rough measurement is only about 4" from the > centre of the axle to the > >> support bracket > > > >From that info, I think you have the Homebuilder > Special, Rex. Reading Aircraft Spruce web pages, I > figured out this: > >1) Homebuilder Special 4" weight: ? tyre: soft > rubber > >2) Homebulder Special 6" weight: 4.5 lbs tyre: soft > rubber > >3) Maule 6" Weight: 6 lbs. tyre: hard rubber > >4) Maule 8" Weight: 7 lbs. tyre: pneumatic > > > >Like you, I wish to change to a pneumatic tyre for > less noise on asphalt and ... less ground loop is > cool too! :-) > >But, as far as I know, none of the above tyres are > interchangeable, you have to purchase the whole > assembly. > > > >Glenn, thanks for your info on 6". > > > >Cheers, > >Michel > > > > > >_- > ====================================================== > ================== > Contributions > any other > Forums. > >_- > ====================================================== > ================== > >_- > ====================================================== > ================== > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > list > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > >_- > ====================================================== > ================== > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:44 PM PST US From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" You're right Clem. The homebuilder wheel/tire fits the Maule great and is softer. I'd definately try it before going all the way with the pneumatic maule tailwheel because it's quite a bit larger, heavier, and a lot more costly! $26 is a pretty good deal... Regards, Ted --- Original Message --- From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" > >Michel: > >From this message it would seem that your interpretation of having to >replace the entire tailwheel assembly in order to use the Homebuilder's tire >is incorrect. I had been given the same impression by another group member. >Do not archive > >Clem Nichols >----- Original Message ----- >From: "flier" >To: ; >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" >> >> I just installed the homebuilder tailwheel on my >> Maule assy yesterday. Works like a charm. The Maule >> bearings are 1/2" ID while the homebuilder is 5/8" >> ID. Short piece of 5/8" (1/16" wall) steel tube made >> a perfect bushing. Then a 1/2" flat washer under the >> nut. 20 minute job max. >> >> Regards, >> >> Ted >> >> >> --- Original Message --- >> From: Michel Verheughe >> To: >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its >> worth >> >> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe >> >> > >> >> From: Rex & Jan Shaw [rexjan@bigpond.com] >> >> A rough measurement is only about 4" from the >> centre of the axle to the >> >> support bracket >> > >> >From that info, I think you have the Homebuilder >> Special, Rex. Reading Aircraft Spruce web pages, I >> figured out this: >> >1) Homebuilder Special 4" weight: ? tyre: soft >> rubber >> >2) Homebulder Special 6" weight: 4.5 lbs tyre: soft >> rubber >> >3) Maule 6" Weight: 6 lbs. tyre: hard rubber >> >4) Maule 8" Weight: 7 lbs. tyre: pneumatic >> > >> >Like you, I wish to change to a pneumatic tyre for >> less noise on asphalt and ... less ground loop is >> cool too! :-) >> >But, as far as I know, none of the above tyres are >> interchangeable, you have to purchase the whole >> assembly. >> > >> >Glenn, thanks for your info on 6". >> > >> >Cheers, >> >Michel >> > >> > >> >_- >> ====================================================== >> ================== >> Contributions >> any other >> Forums. >> >_- >> ====================================================== >> ================== >> >_- >> ====================================================== >> ================== >> http://www.matronics.com/subscription >> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm >> http://www.matronics.com/archives >> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare >> list >> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists >> >_- >> ====================================================== >> ================== >> > >> > >> >> > > >_- ====================================================== ================== Contributions any other Forums. >_- ====================================================== ================== >_- ====================================================== ================== http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare list http://www.matronics.com/emaillists http://www.matronics.com/contribution >_- ====================================================== ================== > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:06 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: When did your kit ship from Skystar? That may narrow down the manufacturer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" When did your kit ship from Skystar? That may narrow down the manufacturer I didn't build the plane but only bought it last November. I am sorry to be arkward but I don't really know when it was shipped. I have a fair bit of paperwork with it and I know construction took 12 months. Going on that my best guess is that the Kit was shipped in '93 and completed in '94. However I'm hoping this is not complicated by the fact the kit was a replacement. The guy that built it originally built a MKIII but the aluminium wing tanks split in flight and he wrecked the plane putting it down. Skystar [ or was it Denney then ] gave him another kit as compensation but I don't know if that was a full kit. I wonder if he might not have just needed the main airframe and used some of the MKIII bits. So sorry I don't really know the answer to your Question except to say there is only about 4" from the centre of the axle to the support arm where it passes the tyre. It works out that any replacent will need to be only about 7" in outside dia. The present wheel is more of a rubber tyred roller. When Aircraft spruce talk about 4" and 6" I assume that is the rim size. Is that right ? Thanks Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:24 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: What tailwheel do you have now? If you do not know then we cannot answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" What tailwheel do you have now? If you do not know then we cannot answer your question. Thanks Jim, I appreciate your point but I don't know the answer. Please see explanation elsewhere on list. I was not aware that therewas different tailwheels on a MKIV. Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:37 PM PST US From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth Michel &Rex --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com Hello Michel and Rex Now you have me wondering! All this discussion of a soft tail wheel, supposed to alleviate ground loops, or less prone. I thought that a ground loop was pilot inflicted, particularly when the drivers mind is on something else like the rear of the vehicle. Don't know about you, but when I am at that crucial moment, I'm thinking about the front end staying in front of the plane in relationship to everything else around me at that time. Anyway, thats what my instructor advised. He said pilot this aircraft 'till you stop the engine. Now' If what your saying is that the inflatable rear wheel is a no brainer, when it comes to landing. Then I want one, just to get the stress out of my flying (ha, ha). Someone. Please let me know. Greetings. Eric. Hard wheel Classic IV, e-mail; ceashman@aol.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:30 PM PST US From: "Flier" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth Michel &Rex --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" My two cents. Has nothing to do with the tailwheel. I put the softer tailwheel on to take some of the rumble out of taxiing. I've never had a problem with groundloop with the 'hard' maule. Regards, Ted -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth Michel &Rex --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com Hello Michel and Rex Now you have me wondering! All this discussion of a soft tail wheel, supposed to alleviate ground loops, or less prone. I thought that a ground loop was pilot inflicted, particularly when the drivers mind is on something else like the rear of the vehicle. Don't know about you, but when I am at that crucial moment, I'm thinking about the front end staying in front of the plane in relationship to everything else around me at that time. Anyway, thats what my instructor advised. He said pilot this aircraft 'till you stop the engine. Now' If what your saying is that the inflatable rear wheel is a no brainer, when it comes to landing. Then I want one, just to get the stress out of my flying (ha, ha). Someone. Please let me know. Greetings. Eric. Hard wheel Classic IV, e-mail; ceashman@aol.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:36 PM PST US From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth Michel &Rex --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" Earlier info on this group suggests that the spring tension on the tailwheel than does the actual wheel itself. IMHO Ted is correct in that the advantage of a soft rubber or pneumatic tailwheel is strictly in smoother taxiing. I don't think there's a tailwheel made that will prevent a ground-loop. If anyone knows of one, please let me know. Thanks Clem Nichols ----- Original Message ----- From: "Flier" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth Michel &Rex > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" > > My two cents. Has nothing to do with the tailwheel. I put the softer > tailwheel on to take some of the rumble out of taxiing. I've never had a > problem with groundloop with the 'hard' maule. > > Regards, > > Ted > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > Ceashman@aol.com > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels WAS For what its worth Michel &Rex > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com > > > Hello Michel and Rex > Now you have me wondering! > All this discussion of a soft tail wheel, supposed to alleviate ground > loops, > or less prone. I thought that a ground loop was pilot inflicted, > particularly > when the drivers mind is on something else like the rear of the vehicle. > Don't know about you, but when I am at that crucial moment, I'm thinking > about the > front end staying in front of the plane in relationship to everything else > around me at that time. > Anyway, thats what my instructor advised. He said pilot this aircraft 'till > you stop the engine. > Now' If what your saying is that the inflatable rear wheel is a no brainer, > when it comes to landing. Then I want one, just to get the stress out of my > flying (ha, ha). > > Someone. Please let me know. > Greetings. Eric. Hard wheel Classic IV, > > e-mail; ceashman@aol.com > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:29 PM PST US From: gjglh@itlnet.net Subject: Kitfox-List: Ground loop 0.5 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary --> Kitfox-List message posted by: gjglh@itlnet.net Remember this poem Gary Spdster912LS ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:21 PM PST US From: "jimshumaker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: What tailwheel do you have now? If you do not know then we cannot answer --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" Rex If the tailwheel doesn't have identifying marks on it you can compare it to the pictures in ACS catalog. It is probably a maule. the diameter of the tailwheel is the overall size, not the rim size. Jim Shumaker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: What tailwheel do you have now? If you do not know then we cannot answer > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > > What tailwheel do you have now? If you do not know then we cannot answer > your question. > > Thanks Jim, I appreciate your point but I don't know the answer. Please see > explanation elsewhere on list. I was not aware that therewas different > tailwheels on a MKIV. Rex. > rexjan@bigpond.com > >