Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:47 AM - Re: skystar (RICHARD HUTSON)
2. 05:21 AM - SV: List posting and values (Michel Verheughe)
3. 09:15 AM - Re: skystar (Bruce Harrington)
4. 09:23 AM - Re: skystar (Mark Miller)
5. 09:40 AM - Re: skystar (Bruce Harrington)
6. 10:08 AM - skystar (Arthur Nation)
7. 12:44 PM - Re: Sport Pilot (dwight purdy)
8. 02:44 PM - values ? (John Oakley)
9. 07:37 PM - Re: SV: "P" factor (kurt schrader)
10. 08:07 PM - Ed Downs (gjglh@itlnet.net)
11. 08:11 PM - Ground Loop (gjglh@itlnet.net)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RICHARD HUTSON" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=83ece717-d34f-4153-91cf-7819e0024bf3&
This is the link to Aero-News regarding Ed Downs
Its on 7/27 title is New Sport Flying company Takes off.
WWW.Americansportflying.com
> What gives?????
>
> See todays issue of Aoro News Network. Ed Downs may have left or
may be leaving SkyStar.
>
>
Jay C.
> On not archive.
>
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | List posting and values |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Clem Nichols [cnichols@scrtc.com]
> Quite frankly, I'm a little puzzled by his response and his failure to respond
to an off-group e-mail I sent him more than 12 hours ago.
Clem, come over here and give us a big kiss! Listen, I answered your email very
shortly after receiving it. I answered a long and rather funny message back.
Then I clicked "Send." I thought it was a message that went through the list,
now I understand it was sent privately. In any case, you should have received
it. If you ever do, please forward it to the list because ... I was funny! :-)
Kurt, yes I am mad at you because one year ago we were talking about marriage and
you still haven't proposed! (do I need to add a smiley here?)
Guys, for more than a year I got good advices and much more, such as CDs and other
things, from this list members. Then, the other day, when Rex asked about
the different tailwheels, as I had just made a comparison for myself, I was more
than pleased to be able to help someone. But the day after, I find two comments,
one from Eric and one from Clem, stating that I am wrong about, respectively,
the ground-loop quality of the pneumatic tyre and the interchangeability
of the wheels.
It all boils down to misreading my poor English because I never meant that.
I admit, I am a bit sensitive about language misunderstanding because I live, as
a French-speaking Belgian, with my Norwegian wife, in Norway, and my Norwegian
is not very good. In the past years, it lead to many misunderstandings, some
funny, and some not so funny for me.
Anyway, I am mad at nobody (except Kurt, of course, but that's because I love him
so much). All I ask you is to give me some credit for my poor English before
you pick something wrong, because I mean well.
As for how personal a list should be allowed to be, as a moderator myself, I have
only one answer: It is up to the creator/moderator of the list to decide that.
Those who disagree can start their own list. Personaly, I like to learn more
about the members because, beyond the subjects we discuss, I also like to make
friends with the people I talk to. On the lists I moderate, no subject is
forbidden, as long as it stays friendly and decent, and off-topic matters are
flagged as "off-topic" or simply "OT" in the title.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Wonder who's replacing Ed. John McBean?
bh
> See:
>
>
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=83ece717-d34f-4153-91cf-7819e0024bf3&
>
> Bill
> do not archive
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark Miller" <larsonmil3@earthlink.net>
That's FUNNY
(right John?)
Mark Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: skystar
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
>
> Wonder who's replacing Ed. John McBean?
> bh
>
> > See:
> >
> >
>
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=83ece717-d34f-4153-91cf-7819e0024bf3&
> >
> > Bill
> > do not archive
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
SkyStar website still has John on the staff!
I guess it's not being updated.
bh
> That's FUNNY
> (right John?)
>
> Mark Miller
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Arthur Nation <anation@w-link.net>
Well, I finally found the reference to Mr. Ed Downs buried in the text.
The worst part is that he has been named president of this venture.
I, for one, will never purchase any product, or participate in anything
that has any connection with Mr. Downs. I believe his performance at Skystar
shows his leadership, business and moral qualities.
Perhaps the new leadership of Skystar will now make good on the multitude
of back orders owed customers, some of which are over two years old.
Arthur Nation
Tacoma, WA
(partial S7 kit)
since August 2002
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: dwight purdy <dpurdy@comteck.com>
That's the way I see it too.
Dwight
At 04:55 PM 7/27/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
>
>What are you talking about? Do what I did. It doesn't take a rocket
>scientist to figure out that the way to go is to register Experimental AB.
>If it weighs less than 1320 lbs and cruises no faster than 138 MPH it
>qualifies as a Sport Pland (see page 30 of the rule...the table) If your not
>already a pilot, get the sport Pilot Cert and go fly your experimental WITH
>your REPAIRMANS CERT (which you got without any moaning at all...just the
>submission of form 8610-2!!! Yeesh! :)
>
>Steve
>
>PS. If your already registered with one of the orgs as a certified
>Ultralight pilot you won't need to buy 20 hours of training to boot! NO
>WHINING! :)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Dcecil3@aol.com>
>To: <webmaster@eaa.org>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Sport Pilot
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dcecil3@aol.com
> >
> > I want to express my dismay and disgust at the EAA's Support of the Sport
> > pilot rule, particularly the Inspection and maintenance of "light Sport
> > Aircraft".If you'll remember years ago the EAA loudly expressed their
>disgust at the
> > fact that experimental aircraft owners couldn't get a repairman
>certificate at
> > "Theater in the woods" to the then, Director of the FAA using the argument
>that
> > "If we had enough sense to build them we had enough sense to maintain
>them"
> > This time around I guess that because it was'ent the whole homebuilt
> > community affected by this , it was'ent worth the time and effort. I don't
>know which
> > is more Stupid the thought of shelling out a lot of money to attend a
>class,
> > to have some A&P tell me how to maintain an airplane I built or the total
> > absence of forethought concerning "Fat " Ultralights
> > Any Idiot that can read a rule is going to see that he will be "Out" a
> > lot of cash by registering his plane. I think that would be great
>incentive to
> > register but, as I say again it didn't affect the homebuilding community
>as a
> > whole so I guess it was'ent worth the same consideration you would have gi
>ven
> > this had it been. To those people just interring aviation it might be OK
>but to
> > those of us building it offers no incentive what so ever, we might as well
> > get our Private. The cost of the class just to repair and maintain our
>plane as
> > opposed to getting the Pvt. ticket will be about the same. So "Pat
>yourself on
> > the Back" EAA you'll be All by yourself
> > David P. Cecil
> > EAA 0626374
> > Sent ot EAA
> > KF list Do Not Archive
> >
> >
>
>
>---
>Version: 6.0.727 / Virus Database: 482 - Release Date: 7/26/2004
---
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
Hi Kids,
I have been on the list for , humm 12 years now. Several moderators and
different list. but still here. I have over 1000 hours of fox time and
several built. I have slowed down much in my letters to the group, mostly
because of my feelings. There have been many that lost their cool and left
and even a couple who got cut off. but the list goes on and all of you guys
are needed here. the language differences have been great to watch. I think
the most colorful person ever, was Gram Launch from the uk. I am glad to see
you all Kiss and makeup. I have enjoyed all of you. ( I Will not kiss
though)
Keep up the good work,
John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: List posting and values
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Clem Nichols [cnichols@scrtc.com]
> Quite frankly, I'm a little puzzled by his response and his failure to
respond to an off-group e-mail I sent him more than 12 hours ago.
Clem, come over here and give us a big kiss! Listen, I answered your email
very shortly after receiving it. I answered a long and rather funny message
back. Then I clicked "Send." I thought it was a message that went through
the list, now I understand it was sent privately. In any case, you should
have received it. If you ever do, please forward it to the list because ...
I was funny! :-)
Kurt, yes I am mad at you because one year ago we were talking about
marriage and you still haven't proposed! (do I need to add a smiley here?)
Guys, for more than a year I got good advices and much more, such as CDs and
other things, from this list members. Then, the other day, when Rex asked
about the different tailwheels, as I had just made a comparison for myself,
I was more than pleased to be able to help someone. But the day after, I
find two comments, one from Eric and one from Clem, stating that I am wrong
about, respectively, the ground-loop quality of the pneumatic tyre and the
interchangeability of the wheels.
It all boils down to misreading my poor English because I never meant that.
I admit, I am a bit sensitive about language misunderstanding because I
live, as a French-speaking Belgian, with my Norwegian wife, in Norway, and
my Norwegian is not very good. In the past years, it lead to many
misunderstandings, some funny, and some not so funny for me.
Anyway, I am mad at nobody (except Kurt, of course, but that's because I
love him so much). All I ask you is to give me some credit for my poor
English before you pick something wrong, because I mean well.
As for how personal a list should be allowed to be, as a moderator myself, I
have only one answer: It is up to the creator/moderator of the list to
decide that. Those who disagree can start their own list. Personaly, I like
to learn more about the members because, beyond the subjects we discuss, I
also like to make friends with the people I talk to. On the lists I
moderate, no subject is forbidden, as long as it stays friendly and decent,
and off-topic matters are flagged as "off-topic" or simply "OT" in the
title.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Michel,
I must respectfully and humbly disagree with what your
simulator friends taught you. Though helicopter
blades can do many things a propeller can't, I can see
no method of achieving significant P factor in a helo.
There are two very different causes of lift/thrust
loss between the two, though the results are somewhat
similar in one respect - thrust/lift moves off center
and that is what we have to control.
What your friends were talking about in helos has to
do with retreating blade loss of speed, and therefore
lift, that is corrected by increased blade pitch. The
more you move forward in a helo, the faster the air
moves over the advancing blade and the slower it moves
over the retreating blade. Very quickly, the
retreating blade root will have reverse airflow and
produce zero or even negative lift. The pitch has to
be increased on this blade to overcome the loss of
lift due to speed. This correction is designed into
the control system. As helo speed increases, more of
the root section goes to zero, then reverse flow. It
is not uncommon for 30% of the retreating blade to
produce zero or negative lift.
The average flow across the retreating blade decreases
with speed requiring more pitch to stay level.
Eventually you achieve retreating blade stall by going
too fast and needing too much pitch on the slow
reverse flying blade. But the advancing blade has
even more lift due to the speed, so the helo rolls
over uncontrolled. This is what usually determines
the top speed of helos.
P factor is very different. Speed is not the
controlling factor and doesn't change across the prop
significantly. Instead it is airplane's pitch or yaw
that causes the prop pitch to change relative to the
wind. No matter what speed you are going, if you take
the prop arc out of alignment with the air flow, you
change the angle of attack of the prop to the air from
one side to the other. This is because the prop's
pitch is fixed in relation to the crankshaft, but not
to the relative wind. So when the crankshaft is
angled by pitch or yaw away from the relative wind,
the blade pitch changes with it. It is not more or
less airflow or more or less speed, but more and less
pitch around the prop arc that causes the off center
thrust.
You can see the cause of P factor with the plane
parked. Just look at horizontal prop blade angles in
relation to horizontal wind with the plane leveled.
The angles are the same all around the arc. Then put
the plane's tail on the ground. Now the decending
prop blade will have a greater angle or bite to the
horizontal wind and the ascending blade will have a
smaller angle and less thrust. No speed required at
all. It is just a pitch change caused by angling the
plane. This pitch change is much larger than any
speed difference a prop sees since it is near 90
degrees to the wind.
A helo edge on to the wind sees speed changing around
the arc. The speed change is directly related to the
helo's speed.
A prop near 90 degrees to the wind sees pitch changes
around the arc. That pitch change is exactly related
to the planes pitch or yaw change.
Best I can explain it tonight.
Kurt S.
--- Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
>
> > From: kurt schrader [smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com]
> > It isn't "less air passing it", but just more or
> less pitch to move more or less air.
>
> I think we all agree, Jim and Kurt. The reason I
> wrote "less air passing it" is that, in a previous
> discussion with my simulator friends, we were
> explained the P-factor as a comparison to an
> helicopter's rotor where one blade is going in the
> direction of the flight (thus increasing the air
> speed passing it) while the other is going the other
> way. Of course, the helo is an exaggerated (nearly
> 90 degrees) example of the P-factor but something
> that worked for my comprehension of it. Also, the
> difference of air speed passing the blade is the
> difference of pitch above-mentionned. Just a way of
> saying the same thing in a different manner, I
> think.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: gjglh@itlnet.net
SportAv News
New Sport Flying Company Takes Off
Tue, 27 Jul '04
The remarkable opportunities engendered by the advent of the FAA's
new Sport Pilot rule are attracting important new entrants into the
flying business. Integrity Brands, a Boston-based investment
organization, has announced a new business initiative aimed at the
emerging Sport Pilot market. This initiative represents an exciting
new entry into recreational aviation, by an investment organization
known for its record in creating value in consumer brands and branded
specialty retail businesses. Integrity Brands has formed a new
business called American Sport Flying. American Sport Flying has a
unique mission: to become the pre-eminent, national branded
destination for sport flying, for both new and existing pilots.
According to John Pound, Founder of Integrity Brands and American
Sport Flying, "With the advent of the Sport Pilot Rule, we see a
tremendous opportunity to literally reinvent recreational flying in
the United States. Clearly, there is an immediate opportunity to
bring many existing pilots back into recreational flying. Beyond
that, we believe this rule provides the engine to rebuild sport
aviation, bringing thousands of new people into the sport of flying.
The goal of American Sport Flying will be to provide the sport flying
experience directly, both to existing pilots, and, ultimately, to a
new generation of recreational pilots."
"American Sport Flying will offer a new business model in the
recreational aviation arena," Mr. Pound continued. "We are going to
build a national brand that stands for grassroots sport flying in
America. We are going to market our brand in a way that educates a
new generation of Americans about the joys, accessibility, and safety
of sport flying. American Sport Flying will connect both new pilots
and returning pilots directly with a carefully developed set of
tools, information, and services, through which they will be able to
pursue the best of sport flying -- in a way that is consistent, safe,
and meets high standards for customer service."
American Sport Flying will provide its services through a modern
multichannel model. A Web portal, that will go live on September 1,
will serve as a national entry point, through which both returning
and prospective pilots can connect to sport flying. Pound reports
that www.americansportflying.com will provide a unique mix of
information, products, and services to prospective sport pilots,
beginning with proprietary guides that will offer unique "how to"
assistance so that new and returning pilots can pursue sport flying
economically and safely. The Web portal will become the place to go
to learn about sport flying and access key sport flying products and
services, including instruction, rentals, and sales of sport
airplanes. Members will also be able to connect with other sport
pilots, join fly-outs, and receive discounts on a wide variety of
sport flying products and services.
In the second phase of the business model, American Sport Flying's
"virtual airport" at www.americansportflying.com, will link to real,
bricks-and-mortar local airports throughout the country. American
Sport Flying Centers, located at carefully selected airports, will
offer the front line services needed by both returning and new pilots
who are joining the sport flying movement. These centers will, in the
spirit of modern branded specialty retail, offer the customer a
wonderful experience - one that is consistent, safe, and highly
consumer friendly. They will provide instruction, rentals, and
aircraft sales and service, to a consistently high standard, defined
and maintained at the national level.
Mr. Pound said, "You will see that the American Sport Flying brand
will have a very specific viewpoint. We are here to offer new and
returning pilots a flying experience, and flying products, that
represent the best that sport aviation has to offer. American Sport
Flying Centers will draw on the wonderful grass roots traditions of
Sunday morning flying in America, and bring those traditions into the
modern era. We will champion values such as friendliness, openness,
professionalism, and high levels of customer service. The American
Sport Flying Centers will be well-designed, pleasing environments in
which pilots and their families can access the sport flying
experience."
Considerable talent has coalesced around American Sport Flying. Mr.
Edward S. Downs, former President and CEO of SkyStar Aircraft
Corporation, and more recently, President of SkyStar Aircraft's Sport
Plane Division, has been named as President of American Sport Flying.
According to Mr. Pound, "We needed a leader in aviation whose
background spans all aspects of what Sport Pilot has to offer. Ed has
almost 50 years of left seat time under his belt, and vast experience
in the business of aviation, including certification experience on
planes including the Boeing 747 and the Lockheed L-1011. Ed also
served a tour of duty in Washington, D.C., representing airline
interests in our nation's capitol. His sophisticated perspective,
experience, and leadership bring a unique expertise to American Sport
Flying."
Ed Downs, long active in the Sport Pilot movement, approaches this
new challenge in his typically enthusiastic manner. Mr. Downs, like
Mr. Pound, has broad and high-reaching goals for the business. He
said, "In this exciting time, with the great opportunity opened up by
the Sport Pilot Rule, we intend that American Sport Flying accomplish
not one, but three, key missions. First, we want to build the best
national destination for sport flying, for existing and new pilots
alike, both in terms of our Web site, and our selected airport
facilities. Second, in so doing, we want to help set a high practical
standard for the implementation of the Sport Pilot Rule - to honor
and champion its letter and its spirit. Third, we want to
re-introduce the sport of flying into American culture. We want to
create a new national constituency for sport flying and rekindle the
magic of flying
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: gjglh@itlnet.net
TAILDRAGGER
EASY, THAT'S TOO MUCH.
Taildragger, I hate your guts,
I have the license, ratings and such.
But to make you go straight is driving me nuts.
With hours of teaching and the controls in my clutch.
It takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
You see, I learned to fly in a tricycle gear
with one up front and two in the rear.
She was sleek and clean and easy to steer.
But this miserable thing with tires and struts.
Takes a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
It demands your attention on the take-off roll.
Or it'll head towards Jones's as you pour on the coal.
Gotta hang loose, don't over control.
This wicked little plane is just too much.
With a lot of zigzagging and words obscene
I think I've mastered this slippery machine.
It's not that bad if you have the touch.
Just a little rudder, easy, that's too much.
I relax for a second and from the corner of my eye,
I suddenly realize with a gasp and a cry.
That's my own tail that's going by.
You ground looping wreck; I hate your guts,
Give a little rudder, Great Scott,
EASY, THAT'S TOO MUCH.
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