---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/04/04: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:14 AM - Pulling or pushing? (Michel Verheughe) 2. 04:47 AM - Re: OT: News from the north (Mark Schindler) 3. 05:24 AM - Re: Rotax 582 idle (Gary Algate) 4. 05:46 AM - Re: W/B question (Clifford Begnaud) 5. 05:51 AM - Re: Pulling or pushing? (Clifford Begnaud) 6. 06:10 AM - Re: Pulling or pushing? (Gary Algate) 7. 07:28 AM - Re: W/B question (jdmcbean) 8. 07:32 AM - Re: NSI Oil Seal Replacement Update (Harold Flynn) 9. 08:07 AM - Re: NSI Oil Seal Replacement Update (Fox5flyer) 10. 08:10 AM - Bulging header tank (Fox5flyer) 11. 08:34 AM - Re: NSI Oil Seal Replacement Update (Fox5flyer) 12. 08:59 AM - Re: Pulling or pushing? (Bruce Harrington) 13. 10:32 AM - OFF TOPIC: News from the "other" North (Scott McClintock) 14. 10:47 AM - Re: OFF TOPIC: News from the "other" North (kurt schrader) 15. 11:15 AM - Re: SV: Tailwheels (kurt schrader) 16. 11:17 AM - Re: OFF TOPIC: News from the "other" North (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 17. 11:29 AM - Re: Bulging header tank (kurt schrader) 18. 11:40 AM - Re: OFF TOPIC: News from the "other" North (Dale Kister) 19. 12:01 PM - Re: Bulging header tank (Paul) 20. 12:34 PM - OFF TOPIC: Alaska Travelers (Scott McClintock) 21. 02:19 PM - Re: Pulling or pushing? (Michel Verheughe) 22. 02:29 PM - Re: Pulling or pushing? (Steve Cooper) 23. 06:05 PM - Re: NSI firewall crank oil seal (Dennis Golden) 24. 06:43 PM - In the summer I also use an automotive sun shade (Rex & Jan Shaw) 25. 07:01 PM - Re: Bulging header tank (Bob Unternaehrer) 26. 08:06 PM - Re: Pulling or pushing? (Jerry Liles) 27. 08:10 PM - Sportpilot Insurance (Jimmie Blackwell) 28. 08:17 PM - Re: Pulling or pushing? (Jerry Liles) 29. 08:25 PM - Re: Sportpilot Insurance (Steve Cooper) 30. 08:40 PM - Re: Sportpilot Insurance (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 31. 09:13 PM - Re: Sportpilot Insurance (Steve Cooper) 32. 09:57 PM - Re: NSI Oil Seal Replacement Update (kurt schrader) 33. 10:01 PM - Re: Pulling or pushing? (Bruce Harrington) 34. 10:21 PM - Re: Bulging header tank (kurt schrader) 35. 10:45 PM - Re: Pulling or pushing? (Bruce Harrington) 36. 11:20 PM - Re: Damaged Fox - was: NSI firewall crank oil seal (kurt schrader) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:20 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Pulling or pushing? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Lmar [my93avid@yahoo.com] > In the air, while flaring, I do have 2000+ rpm due to the airspeed. Once stopped, I > have to forward the throttle again. What I am not sure of, guys, is this: When you flare at say, 50 MPH, and your throttle is on idle e.g. 2,000 RPM static but 2,500 at 50 MPH, does your prop pull or push? Also: Is the air passing over your wings' root accelerated? The only way to find out is, I guess, to land with a dead stick. But I haven't tried that yet (except with my instuctor, in his plane) and can't compare. I intend to do it, but in winter, when I have miles-long lakes I can land on. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:57 AM PST US From: Mark Schindler Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: OT: News from the north --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler Michel On my website www.avidflyeraircraft.com if you scroll down to 1/30/04 there is a link to World Microlight Championship - 2003 link is dead but the PDF file is still good and there should be a lot of info on what's required. Also there are pictures of Eric and his Dutch team. Good luck - Mark Michel Verheughe wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Torgeir Mortensen wrote: > Yes, this summer is quite extraordinary Glad to hear you have a nice summer and a lot of Kitfox flying, Torgeir. Apart from the week-end fly-in at Fyresdal, I have been mostly flying locally this summer. Getting friends up in the air and having my son working the plane for his license. Next on my agenda: The Norwegian championship for microlight the 28th and 29th August at Starmoen. I don't know exactly what it is because I have never done that before but I understand that there is a navigation test that is run in a large circle. Have you ever done that? Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:37 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 idle --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" You have to be very careful idling too low. I have my 5822 set so that I can pull it back to 1800 on the ground (but never do). On ground idle I run at between 2000 and 2,500 and warm the engine at 3000 as this is really smooth. When I am landing on a short field I pull the throttle right back but due to air flow it still only idles back to 1900. Once when practicing "dead sticks" and the engine was shut down the prop still tended to windmill and this caused the engine to shudder quite a bit. After landing I was just giving things a cursory glance and noticed that one of the carburetors was almost completely out of the rubber socket. I have since made a spring retaining device but excess vibration at low revs can do a lot f damage to the engine and airframe. I regularly land on short strips and my plane doesn't float - I use flaps and I land slow with power on if the strip is short. I think if a few hundred rpm are causing you to float maybe your approach speed is a little high. Gay Algate Lite2/582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" I tried to turn my idle speed (1800) down to eliminate "FLOAT" on landings and the engine shakes and shudders so bad at 1650 that I think it will jump off the mount !!! What can I do to smoothen it out???? ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:30 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: W/B question --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Howard, The calc doesn't change, as Kirk suggested, however the CG RANGE most certainly does change. With 1 degree of wing sweep, the range is as follows: Forward Limit: 9.96 Aft Limit: 14.75 Just for reference, the limits WITHOUT wing sweep are: forward 11.37, aft 16.0 These numbers apply to Models 5 & 6 and I'm think will also apply to the 7. Send me a private email if you would like a copy of my weight and balance spreadsheet. It does all the calcs for you, from initial W&B to most adverse conditions to individual flight conditions. It even has a W&B envelope and does fuel range calcs. Best Regards, Cliff > > The 1 degree of the wing should not chance your CG calc. I dont have my #s > as I was just doing a test weight with no fabric on the fusc to see where to > but the battery to ballance the heavier engine > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Howard Firm" > To: > Subject: Kitfox-List: W/B question > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" > > > > I'm doing my W/B next weekend and needed to know what the 1 degree swept > > wings does to the calculations. Does the Datum change? Does the C-G > envelope > > change? Maybe Kurt, you could post your numbers for a reference as we are > > very similar. > > > > Also, users with LP bubble doors, do you know of any vents that can be > > installed on the slightly curved surface? My cabin is very sealed and I > see > > I'm going to need air coming in... > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:11 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Pulling or pushing? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" It is most definitely pushing (i.e., adding drag, slowing the plane). When you land dead stick, you will find that your plane will glide MUCH further without the prop turning. These comments are based upon a model 5 with Rotax 912 and a standard blade Warp drive prop. Cliff > > What I am not sure of, guys, is this: > When you flare at say, 50 MPH, and your throttle is on idle e.g. 2,000 RPM static but 2,500 at 50 MPH, does your prop pull or push? Also: Is the air passing over your wings' root accelerated? > The only way to find out is, I guess, to land with a dead stick. But I haven't tried that yet (except with my instuctor, in his plane) and can't compare. I intend to do it, but in winter, when I have miles-long lakes I can land on. > > Cheers, > Michel > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:28 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Pulling or pushing? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" I practiced dead sticks a lot in winter and agree with Cliff about the reduction on glide with the prop stopped. I can assure that you will get quite a surprise if you base an emergency engine out final on your experience with a glide at idle. My first couple of attempts left me landing about 100 ft short. Trouble is though that most pilots tend to overshoot and land long in emergency situations - I guess this has to do with the "I want to get down quick" syndrome that also occurs when the noise stops up front. I have an in-flight adjustable IVO Prop and even tried coarsening the pitch to induce the prop to keep turning on a dead stick approach and this seemed to help but I don't think in a real emergency situation I would be concerned with fine tuning my glide ratio. Regards Gary Algate Lite2/582 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is most definitely pushing (i.e., adding drag, slowing the plane). When you land dead stick, you will find that your plane will glide MUCH further without the prop turning. These comments are based upon a model 5 with Rotax 912 and a standard blade Warp drive prop. Cliff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:08 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: W/B question --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Howard, I think I missed this thread... There are W&B spreadsheets at http://www.desertfoxsquadron.org/Weight%20&%20Balance.htm Blue Skies John & Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirkhull@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: W/B question --> Kitfox-List message posted by: The 1 degree of the wing should not chance your CG calc. I dont have my #s as I was just doing a test weight with no fabric on the fusc to see where to but the battery to ballance the heavier engine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Firm" Subject: Kitfox-List: W/B question > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" > > I'm doing my W/B next weekend and needed to know what the 1 degree swept > wings does to the calculations. Does the Datum change? Does the C-G envelope > change? Maybe Kurt, you could post your numbers for a reference as we are > very similar. > > Also, users with LP bubble doors, do you know of any vents that can be > installed on the slightly curved surface? My cabin is very sealed and I see > I'm going to need air coming in... > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:52 AM PST US From: Harold Flynn Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal Replacement Update --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Harold Flynn Fox5flyer wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Ok it's done. The new crank seal is in place, engine has been run up to temp, and no apparent leaks, so I think I'm good to go for a test flight. Thanks much to Rick for his help because without it I'd have probably pulled the engine which would have been a lot more work, unnecessarily. I was able to dive into the job knowing exactly what to expect and everything went exactly as expected. Also, thanks to Don Lorenzen for the retainer he made for me. It fit perfectly. The NSI engine isn't vented because it uses crankcase pressure pulses to push the unpressurized oil back up to the oil tank. Because of this the internal pressure tries to push out the crank seal, which in a few cases, such as mine, it has succeeded. Fortunately it can't push out all the way without running into the pulley so it's not a real big deal if you aren't far from home. The oil doesn't gush out, it just dribbles a little, which is enough to make a small mess and some smoke. The retainer prevents this from happening ever again and the seal should be good to go until overhaul time. For anyone who wants one of these retainers, Don is the person to contact. He may still have some. Had I thought of it earlier I'd have taken a picture of it and put it on Sportflight, but it never entered my mind. I don't know if he's still on the list or not, but he lives in Missoula Montana. I have his address if anyone wants it. Don, are you with us? Darrel S5/NSI 100hp/CAP I would like to contact Don and get a retainer from him if I could Harold Flynn --------------------------------- Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:38 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal Replacement Update --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" This is the last known address that I have. Good luck. Don Lorenzen 6826 Linda Vista Blvd Missoula MT 59803-2772 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Flynn" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal Replacement Update > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Harold Flynn > > > Fox5flyer wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > Ok it's done. The new crank seal is in place, engine has been run up to > temp, and no apparent leaks, so I think I'm good to go for a test flight. > Thanks much to Rick for his help because without it I'd have probably pulled > the engine which would have been a lot more work, unnecessarily. I was able > to dive into the job knowing exactly what to expect and everything went > exactly as expected. Also, thanks to Don Lorenzen for the retainer he made > for me. It fit perfectly. The NSI engine isn't vented because it uses > crankcase pressure pulses to push the unpressurized oil back up to the oil > tank. Because of this the internal pressure tries to push out the crank > seal, which in a few cases, such as mine, it has succeeded. Fortunately it > can't push out all the way without running into the pulley so it's not a > real big deal if you aren't far from home. The oil doesn't gush out, it > just dribbles a little, which is enough to make a small mess and some smoke. > The retainer prevents this from happening ever again and the seal should be > good to go until overhaul time. For anyone who wants one of these > retainers, Don is the person to contact. He may still have some. Had I > thought of it earlier I'd have taken a picture of it and put it on > Sportflight, but it never entered my mind. I don't know if he's still on > the list or not, but he lives in Missoula Montana. I have his address if > anyone wants it. Don, are you with us? > Darrel > S5/NSI 100hp/CAP > > > I would like to contact Don and get a retainer from him if I could > > Harold Flynn > > > --------------------------------- > Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:24 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Bulging header tank --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" While replacing my fuel valve I had the seat assembly out of the airplane and I noticed that the plastic header tank is bulging out in the back side. This side is normally flat and where it butts up against the inverted V support tubes it's bulging as much as 3/4". This is has me concerned and I'd like to replace the tank with a new one. Anybody else have this problem? Anybody have good one to unload? Better yet, I recall that someone was producing aluminum replacements. Any available? Thanks, Darrel S5 Outback ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:15 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal Replacement Update --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Oops. My sincere apologies to the list. I shouldn't have posted Don's address publicly. I'd meant to send it privately, but forgot to change the TO address. Again, my apologies. Darrel > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > This is the last known address that I have. > Good luck. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:28 AM PST US From: "Bruce Harrington" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Pulling or pushing? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" Hi Michel, It's still pulling! That's why the float!! But you could also flare about 45 indicated, which is about 1.3 times stall. bh > What I am not sure of, guys, is this: > When you flare at say, 50 MPH, and your throttle is on idle e.g. 2,000 RPM static but 2,500 at 50 MPH, does your prop pull or push? Also: Is the air passing over your wings' root accelerated? > The only way to find out is, I guess, to land with a dead stick. But I haven't tried that yet (except with my instuctor, in his plane) and can't compare. I intend to do it, but in winter, when I have miles-long lakes I can land on. > > Cheers, > Michel ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:41 AM PST US From: Scott McClintock Subject: Kitfox-List: OFF TOPIC: News from the "other" North --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock Michel & Torgeir and fellow listers: Yes, Alaska has been having a very warm summer too. Unfortunately, the heat and dryness has fostered ideal conditions for forest and tundra fires which we have had many. Over 5 million acres have burned this summer. We have had a lot of TFRs in these areas. Although we haven't had any fires in the Nome area, the heavy smoke has traveled here on a few days causing near IMC. The "interior" (Fairbanks area especially) has been hardest hit with several communities having to evacuate while the fires rage. (I have some pretty chilling pictures that I can send if anyone is interested) The Russian "mission" to Provideniya (Alaska Airman's Assoc.) departed Nome last Sunday and returned yesterday with very colorful tales. Eleven planes went over. Those of us with "experimentals" were not allowed to participate as the Russians don't understand us (or our planes). Hopefully, they will realize how many of us (Alaskans) fly these types and will change their minds. Money (or the lack of) usually dictate policy. I did sit in on the pre and post flight briefings which was very informative and interesting. The Russian contact person (a statuesque woman) was a little hard to understand with her heavy accent. (read: total turn-on) The "Arctic Fox" goes into the hangar this weekend for her new S6 flapperons (Thanks Fred!) and her refurbished spring gear (Thanks Grove!) Scott in Nome DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:43 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: OFF TOPIC: News from the "other" North --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Scott, The warmth, the fires, the russian woman.... I am having a hard time feeling sorry for you right now. :-) Guess I'll wait until winter for that. Glad you'll be flying again soon. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo Do not archive --- Scott McClintock > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock > > > Michel & Torgeir and fellow listers: > > Yes, Alaska has been having a very warm summer too. __________________________________ Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:55 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Tailwheels --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Thanks John, Next time I am out there, I'll check. I did use the stick to unload and reload the tailwheel and it eventually stopped. Slower 3 point landings, like I should have been doing, didn't cause a shimmy. Kurt S. --- kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > kerrjohna@comcast.net > > check also the verticality of the tailwheel pivot. > the only time my maul shimmies is if stick full back > at higher taxi speed forces the tail town and alters > the pivot angle. releasing the stick slightly stops > the shimmy. > John __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:03 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: OFF TOPIC: News from the "other" North --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 8/4/04 10:33:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us writes: > Yes, Alaska has been having a very warm summer too. Unfortunately, the > heat and dryness has fostered ideal conditions for forest and tundra > Scott, I just returned yesterday from a weeks cruise from Seattle to Alaska. What a beautiful state. When I left it was about 50 degrees. Arrived back in Virginia with the first hurricane sitting off the coast and 95 degrees. I think Alaska was cold..... Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:52 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bulging header tank --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Darrel, Has it been getting hot back there by the tank this summer? I took out my old plastic tank and replaced it with a larger aluminum tank. You could have my old plastic tank, but I would much rather you replace it with a larger aluminum tank. Now my low fuel light comes on at about 2.5 gal. This gives me a lot more options over poor terrain and little chance for flameout in descent like Tom A. had. He convinced me to change and he has a tank source if you need one. I had some interference issues of my own design, so I had to design my tank around them myself. Just let me know if you want the old plastic one. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Fox5flyer wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > While replacing my fuel valve I had the seat > assembly out of the airplane > and I noticed that the plastic header tank is > bulging out in the back side. > This side is normally flat and where it butts up > against the inverted V > support tubes it's bulging as much as 3/4". This is > has me concerned and > I'd like to replace the tank with a new one. > Anybody else have this > problem? Anybody have good one to unload? Better > yet, I recall that > someone was producing aluminum replacements. Any > available? > Thanks, > Darrel > S5 Outback __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:45 AM PST US From: "Dale Kister" <2@dalekister.com> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: OFF TOPIC: News from the "other" North --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dale Kister" <2@dalekister.com> Don, My wife and I will be taking the Alaska cruise in 3 weeks. Leaving and returning to Seattle. This my be a big temperature change, since it has been running around 107F daily here in Phoenix. Hope the cruise turns out to be worth the $$cost$$. Dale Kister DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: OFF TOPIC: News from the "other" North --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 8/4/04 10:33:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us writes: > Yes, Alaska has been having a very warm summer too. Unfortunately, the > heat and dryness has fostered ideal conditions for forest and tundra > Scott, I just returned yesterday from a weeks cruise from Seattle to Alaska. What a beautiful state. When I left it was about 50 degrees. Arrived back in Virginia with the first hurricane sitting off the coast and 95 degrees. I think Alaska was cold..... Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:31 PM PST US From: Paul Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bulging header tank --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul Hi Kurt, I guess I have not been paying close attention. Who makes the Al tank and what is the cost. Thanks, Paul =============== At 11:29 AM -0700 8/4/04, kurt schrader wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > >Darrel, > >Has it been getting hot back there by the tank this >summer? > >I took out my old plastic tank and replaced it with a >larger aluminum tank. You could have my old plastic >tank, but I would much rather you replace it with a >larger aluminum tank. > >Now my low fuel light comes on at about 2.5 gal. This >gives me a lot more options over poor terrain and >little chance for flameout in descent like Tom A. had. > He convinced me to change and he has a tank source if >you need one. I had some interference issues of my >own design, so I had to design my tank around them >myself. > >Just let me know if you want the old plastic one. > >Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo > > >--- Fox5flyer wrote: > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" >> >> >> While replacing my fuel valve I had the seat >> assembly out of the airplane >> and I noticed that the plastic header tank is >> bulging out in the back side. >> This side is normally flat and where it butts up >> against the inverted V >> support tubes it's bulging as much as 3/4". This is >> has me concerned and >> I'd like to replace the tank with a new one. >> Anybody else have this >> problem? Anybody have good one to unload? Better >> yet, I recall that >> someone was producing aluminum replacements. Any >> available? >> Thanks, >> Darrel > > S5 Outback -- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:57 PM PST US From: Scott McClintock Subject: Kitfox-List: OFF TOPIC: Alaska Travelers --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dale Kister" <2@dalekister.com> Don, My wife and I will be taking the Alaska cruise in 3 weeks. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Scott, I just returned yesterday from a weeks cruise from Seattle to Alaska. Dale and Don, Don, I'm glad you took the opportunity to come see my beautiful State. Yes, we are somewhat cooler than what you are used to. Did you have the chance to visit Haines on your cruise? My hometown for 13 years. I think it is one of the prettiest places on the planet. My wife and I will be returning there on the 21st. to gather our belongings and close our house sale there. Dale, As an ex-Yuma boy, I can tell you that the temps will be much cooler than Phoenix's. You should bring a jacket or coat. Southeast is a rainforest so be prepared. The trip up the inside passage will be unbelievable to you. I've taken the trip many times but am always in awe each and every time. Try and do a day trip from Skagway or Juneau to Haines when there. My good friends Karen & "Duck" Hess operate "River Adventures" in Haines offering jet boat tours up the gorgeous Chilkat River. Don't miss this as it is spectacular! Mention Scott & Susan McClintock and I'm sure they can cut you a better deal. Watch for bears and eagles, lots of them there. It is hard to put a value on a trip of a lifetime regardless of what the cruise may cost. You will enjoy the whole thing and will have memories that will last forever. (Bring your camera and video) Visit our friends Steve & Gayla Hites (Skagway Street Car & Mercantile Store) in Skagway. Very cool and nice folks. Steve just loves to wear the turn of the century duds and is very colorful. Tell them "Hello" from me. Scott in Nome PS: Those wanting the Alaska fire pictures, I will send them to you off list (we don't post attachments on this list) DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:54 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Pulling or pushing? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Clifford Begnaud wrote: > It is most definitely pushing Thanks Cliff, Gary and Bruce. If my engine stops, I think it is important for me to know how fast I'll go down. My test, with the engine idle says, at 55 MPH, 350 fpm, in a straight line, and nearly 500 fpm in a one-minute turn. Is it then reasonable for a stopped engine to count 500 fpm in a straight line and maybe 700 in a slack turn? Gary, about the overshooting an emergency landing, on a French microlight plane forum, I read the following: If you meet a field with obstacles (say, trees) on both sides, it is better to overshoot and aim at the center of the field. The idea is this: It is better to end at 20 MPH in the trees at the end of the field, than 50 MPH on the tree tops at the beginning. It seems to make sense to me. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:33 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Pulling or pushing? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Pulling or pushing? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Clifford Begnaud wrote: > > It is most definitely pushing > > Thanks Cliff, Gary and Bruce. > If my engine stops, I think it is important for me to know how fast I'll go > down. My test, with the engine idle says, at 55 MPH, 350 fpm, in a straight > line, and nearly 500 fpm in a one-minute turn. Is it then reasonable for a > stopped engine to count 500 fpm in a straight line and maybe 700 in a slack turn? > If the engine stops completely, it has been my experience that your glide potential will increase, decreasing your rate of decent. When the engine is at idle, the prop is acting like a big disk in front of the plane increasing drag. I have the luxury of being close to El Mirage Dry Lake bed. I go up...maybe 500' AGL and shut the engine off frequently...just to practice dead stick landings. I always have more time to screw around with the plane when the engine is off completely than when I do it at idle. My 2 cents. Steve Avid Mark IV Jabiru, N919SC ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:29 PM PST US From: Dennis Golden Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI firewall crank oil seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Dennis Golden kurt schrader wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > > Thanks John and Darrel, > > The pilot/mechanic who told me about the tailwheel > incident could easily have mistaken a Rans, Avid, etc > for a Fox. I just wondered if it was one of "us". > > Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo > > --- "John E. King " wrote: We saw this on our way to the ultra light area on Tue. 7/27. As far as I could tell, it was a Kit Fox. It was in the emergency repair area and I could see that the rudder was damaged on the bottom (the fabric was all bunched up). The plane was silver with horizontal red strips on the rudder. > >>Darrel & Kirk, >> >>I got to Oshkosh 7:30 PM Wednesday and left at >>9:00 AM on Sunday. >>I heard or saw nothing about a damaged Kitfox. > > >>-- >>John King >>Warrenton, VA >> >>Fox5flyer wrote: >> >> >>>Nope, didn't hear anything about it Kurt. > > >>>Darrel ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:26 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: In the summer I also use an automotive sun shade --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" In the summer I also use an automotive sun shade I just use auto stick on tinting above my head in my MKIV and I find it's great. Doesn't seem to reduce light in the cockpit in poor weather either. Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:28 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bulging header tank --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" I had an aluminum one made. The welding labor was $120 bob u. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Bulging header tank > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > While replacing my fuel valve I had the seat assembly out of the airplane > and I noticed that the plastic header tank is bulging out in the back side. > This side is normally flat and where it butts up against the inverted V > support tubes it's bulging as much as 3/4". This is has me concerned and > I'd like to replace the tank with a new one. Anybody else have this > problem? Anybody have good one to unload? Better yet, I recall that > someone was producing aluminum replacements. Any available? > Thanks, > Darrel > S5 Outback > > > --- > > --- ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:27 PM PST US From: Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Pulling or pushing? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles A long wing Fox or Avid is going to float a long way at 50mph, especially if the engine is still generating thrust. I have the prop clutch in my C gearbox and wouldn't be without it. The engine at low idle doesn't sound or feel like a washing machine full of bowling balls (idle at 1800 rpm or even slower is smooth and very pleasant). Therefore I can land with absolutely no thrust from the prop, in fact it is producing only drag which helps the short field landings. Another plus of the clutch is I can routinely make what an engine out landing with the engine still running! I know exactly how Tootie Mae is going to behave if the engine does ever fail. The down side is the prop freewheels, which increases drag. Nothing is ever an unalloyed success. Jerry Liles Avid MK IV Heavy Hauler Michel Verheughe wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > >>From: Lmar [my93avid@yahoo.com] >>In the air, while flaring, I do have 2000+ rpm due to the airspeed. Once stopped, I >>have to forward the throttle again. >> >> > >What I am not sure of, guys, is this: >When you flare at say, 50 MPH, and your throttle is on idle e.g. 2,000 RPM static but 2,500 at 50 MPH, does your prop pull or push? Also: Is the air passing over your wings' root accelerated? >The only way to find out is, I guess, to land with a dead stick. But I haven't tried that yet (except with my instuctor, in his plane) and can't compare. I intend to do it, but in winter, when I have miles-long lakes I can land on. > >Cheers, > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:47 PM PST US From: "Jimmie Blackwell" Subject: Kitfox-List: Sportpilot Insurance --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" I am planning on flying my Kitfox under the Sportpilot ruling. However, I have not been able to get anyone to give me an insurance quote. Anyone else looked into this and if so did you get any company to give you a quote? ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:46 PM PST US From: Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Pulling or pushing? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles I think the prop is producing thrust during landing when the engine is turning at 2000 to 2500 rpm (about 700 to 800+ prop rpm with a 3:1 gearbox) unless the prop is freewheeling. A freewheeling prop, that is one that is being turned by its passage through the air not by the power of the engine, will absorb energy and produce drag, more so than a stopped prop. However, if it is being turned by the engine, it is not absorbing energy from the slipstream at the slow landing speeds we use, and is actually generating a bit of thrust. I certainly get a nice breeze at 2400 engine rpm where the clutch engages. These slow prop speeds will, however, add some drag at higher gliding speeds. Jerry Liles Clifford Begnaud wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > >It is most definitely pushing (i.e., adding drag, slowing the plane). When >you land dead stick, you will find that your plane will glide MUCH further >without the prop turning. These comments are based upon a model 5 with Rotax >912 and a standard blade Warp drive prop. >Cliff > > > >>What I am not sure of, guys, is this: >>When you flare at say, 50 MPH, and your throttle is on idle e.g. 2,000 RPM >> >> >static but 2,500 at 50 MPH, does your prop pull or push? Also: Is the air >passing over your wings' root accelerated? > > >>The only way to find out is, I guess, to land with a dead stick. But I >> >> >haven't tried that yet (except with my instuctor, in his plane) and can't >compare. I intend to do it, but in winter, when I have miles-long lakes I >can land on. > > >>Cheers, >>Michel >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:55 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sportpilot Insurance --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" You don't need insurance to fly your Kitfox. (Don't put a bullseye on your back for the lawyers!) Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmie Blackwell" Subject: Kitfox-List: Sportpilot Insurance > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" > > I am planning on flying my Kitfox under the Sportpilot ruling. However, I have not been able to get anyone to give me an insurance quote. Anyone else looked into this and if so did you get any company to give you a quote? > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:10 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sportpilot Insurance --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 8/4/04 8:27:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, spdrflyr@earthlink.net writes: > You don't need insurance to fly your Kitfox. (Don't put a bullseye on your > back for the lawyers!) > > Steve > Interesting that insurance comes up with the sport pilot rating...I agree that you don't have to have hull insurance but I would guess that liability insurance is still required? Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:47 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sportpilot Insurance --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sportpilot Insurance > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > In a message dated 8/4/04 8:27:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > spdrflyr@earthlink.net writes: > > > > You don't need insurance to fly your Kitfox. (Don't put a bullseye on your > > back for the lawyers!) > > > > Steve > > > > Interesting that insurance comes up with the sport pilot rating...I agree > that you don't have to have hull insurance but I would guess that liability > insurance is still required? > > Don Smythe > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Don, Unless your Airport/Hangar requires insurance you don't need it. Where I am hangared they do not require it...yet. I won't have any insurance until they make it a requirement. But that's just the way MY brain works...to each his own. Steve ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:49 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Oil Seal Replacement Update --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Thanks for all the useful info Darrel. It explains a lot for me. First, I just found out that the oil seal retainer/cover pics are already on SportFlight. They are under "improvements". I have been worrying about that seal on my own plane since before the FAA signoff. But I didn't know that other NSI engines were different and used the crankcase pressure to move the oil to the remote tank. Mine seems to be a combined system - a breather off the engine heads, the old auto oil pan, but with the oil pan to tank line still installed. This was supposed to be a breather drain line, but it didn't work that way. It is where my oil was being blown out the pan and out the breather by crankcase pressure. I have changed it to a straight breather system and capped off the oil pan line. Ground checks OK. I'll soon know if that works in flight. With my crankcase pressure relieved, I hope not to need the seal retainer now. We'll see how that works too. It is interesting how the seal will blow out, but not the friction fit dipstick that sees the same crankcase pressure (at least on my engine). Kurt S. N-5/NSI turbo --- Fox5flyer wrote: > Ok it's done. The new crank seal is in place, > engine has been run up to > temp, and no apparent leaks, so I think I'm good to > go for a test flight. __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:37 PM PST US From: "Bruce Harrington" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Pulling or pushing? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" Hi Michel, Yes! bh > Thanks Cliff, Gary and Bruce. > If my engine stops, I think it is important for me to know how fast I'll go > down. My test, with the engine idle says, at 55 MPH, 350 fpm, in a straight > line, and nearly 500 fpm in a one-minute turn. Is it then reasonable for a > stopped engine to count 500 fpm in a straight line and maybe 700 in a slack turn? > >snip > > Cheers, > Michel ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:22 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bulging header tank --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Hi Paul, There are pics of Tom Anderson's alum header tank on SportFlight under "gotta-haves". Rick Chandler also added his pics under "add-ons/modifications". I don't remember who made the tanks for Tom and Rick, but they paid about $300. It was Tom's design. I strengthened my seatbelt attachments and ran the left wing tank fuel line down to the bottom of the header to use as a header site gauge, so I had to design a slightly narrower tank for myself. I did a lot of poster board bending until I got what I wanted, then bent it up out of .050 T5051 alum from ACS. It was about $200 that way with fittings welded in. I forget how much it weighed, but it was a lot better than I thought it would be. You have to account for the extra fuel weight there though. One thing I did which has proven useful. I painted the tank exterior with red paint that desolves in fuel. It quickly found 3 fuel seeps for me at several welds. Otherwise the fuel evaporates off the tank and the leaks are harder to find. Tom or Rick should know who to call if you want the standard Tom A. designed tank. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Paul wrote: > Hi Kurt, > I guess I have not been paying close attention. Who > makes the Al tank and what is the cost. > Thanks, Paul ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:40 PM PST US From: "Bruce Harrington" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Pulling or pushing? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" I retrack my "Yes".. Brain fart. Stopped prop will have better glide ratio due to less drag. Unless the idle rpm is 2000 or above! (I think) bh > Hi Michel, > > Yes! > > bh > > > Thanks Cliff, Gary and Bruce. > > If my engine stops, I think it is important for me to know how fast I'll go > > down. My test, with the engine idle says, at 55 MPH, 350 fpm, in a straight > > line, and nearly 500 fpm in a one-minute turn. Is it then reasonable for a > > stopped engine to count 500 fpm in a straight line and maybe 700 in a slack > turn? > > > >snip > > > > Cheers, > > Michel ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:12 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Damaged Fox - was: NSI firewall crank oil seal --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Thanks Dennis, A broken spring or wheel assembly and bent rudder can really mess up your trip. I am bound to do the same some day. I don't recognize the plane/owner you described. Wonder what broke? Steel or alum spring, etc. If he is not on the list, we probably won't find out. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Dennis Golden wrote: > We saw this on our way to the ultra light area on > Tue. 7/27. As far as I > could tell, it was a Kit Fox. It was in the > emergency repair area and I > could see that the rudder was damaged on the bottom > (the fabric was all > bunched up). The plane was silver with horizontal > red strips on the rudder. Do not archive. __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail