---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/16/04: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:15 AM - SV: rudder hinge (Michel Verheughe) 2. 05:45 AM - Re: rudder hinge (kitfoxjunky) 3. 05:46 AM - Re: Flapperon friction. (Fox5flyer) 4. 06:46 AM - Re: Flapperon friction. (Lowell Fitt) 5. 06:55 AM - Re: Broken rudder hinge (Floran Higgins) 6. 07:15 AM - Re: Broken rudder hinge (Guy Buchanan) 7. 07:40 AM - sparkplugs, 912, avgas (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 8. 08:30 AM - Fuel return line (Kerry Skyring) 9. 08:31 AM - Re: sparkplugs, 912, avgas (jdmcbean) 10. 08:41 AM - Re: Broken rudder hinge (Bill Pleso) 11. 09:38 AM - Re: Fuel return line (W Duke) 12. 09:58 AM - Re: Fuel return line (Ron) 13. 12:57 PM - Digital camera sound problem (Solar) 14. 03:30 PM - Re: OT: News from the north (Torgeir Mortensen) 15. 03:38 PM - Re: rudder hinge (Torgeir Mortensen) 16. 04:38 PM - Re: Fuel return line (Bob Robertson) 17. 04:57 PM - Re: Flapperon friction. (Torgeir Mortensen) 18. 06:01 PM - Re: rudder hinge (Ceashman@aol.com) 19. 06:43 PM - Re: SV: rudder hinge (Jerry Liles) 20. 07:23 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (Kirk Martenson) 21. 07:47 PM - Re: Spark Plugs (Jeffrey Puls) 22. 08:52 PM - Re: sparkplugs, 912, avgas (John E. King) 23. 09:58 PM - Re: Fuel return line (jimshumaker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:14 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: rudder hinge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: AlbertaIV@aol.com > Recommend everybody get out of bed and run to the airport for a survey of their > personal installation and report back. ... quick Robin, to the Batmobile, our help is needed! :-) At my first annual, last year, the inspector looked at my rudder hinges and said: "Ha, ha! They are bended, you naughty boy!" Since I didn't build the plane myself, I needed a good look at them. It turned our that the hinges have nylon bushings and the pins are not centered in them. But they are certainly not bended. Looks more like a way to allow for excentricity of the rudder part and the vertical stab part. My pins are not threaded rods but smooth pins with a washer and a split pin at the end. ... is it normal, doctor? Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder hinge From: "kitfoxjunky" 08:44:40 AM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxjunky" Hi Shane. Not sure if you saw the discussions on the slipper clutch for the 912S. I just had one installed. Will let you know how it works out after I have had a chance to run the engine. Gary Walsh C-GOOT www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox "Shane Sather" To: "Kitfox list" Sent by: cc: owner-kitfox-list-server@ma Subject: Kitfox-List: rudder hinge tronics.com 08/15/2004 01:05 PM Please respond to kitfox-list --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Shane Sather" During my preflight last week I noticed one of the rudder hinges was loose. The bolt had backed off a bit. All the more reason for good preflights for every flight. I think a little Lock Tight will address this issue though. PS I have a 912S and I seem to be able to start it up with not much shake as I prime it good first. The shut down is a different story though, as it can (not always) give a real good shake if I don't shut it down before it runs too slow. Arctic Fox way up North ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:06 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flapperon friction. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Kurt, as I recall it, SS stated that they weren't necessary on the later models. However, those things weigh next to nothing and do add some strenght and rigidity so if you already have them you should probably leave them alone. Personally, I wouldn't operate without them. Darrel > So does this mean that the bearings should be removed > from -5 1550's and newer? Or are they to be taken off > only if binding? All I have ever heard about this > were rumors. > > Kurt S. > > --- jdmcbean wrote: > > > The flaperon bearing was removed on the Series 6 and > > tested without the bearing. It was determined > > at that point that the bearing would not be > > needed on Series 5 with the 1550 wing only (.065 > > wall spar thickness) > > > > Blue Skies > > John & Debra McBean > > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > > __________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:30 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flapperon friction. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Thanks for the heads-up, Don. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flapperon friction. > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > In a message dated 8/15/04 6:04:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > lcfitt@inreach.com writes: > > > > / friction issue while doing some of the manouvers the Speedster is > > stressed > > to do. It is also, I believe one of the reasons the Speedster has two mass > > balance weights vs. one for the Classic / Model IV-1200. > > > > Lowell, > Slight correction. The Classic IV has two balance weights per wing and > the instructions called for cutting the flapperons as you mention. I called > Skystar on this during the building and they said "NOT" to cut per instructions. > Classic IV Sep 95. I further asked if I could leave off one of the balance > weights to conserve weight. They said to leave as is with both weights per > wing. > > Don Smythe > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:13 AM PST US From: "Floran Higgins" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Broken rudder hinge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" When I put it back together I am going to align them very carefully. There are two different companies listing these bearings in the Aircraft Spruce catalog. One company costs $33.50 and the other cost $6.50 each. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kurt schrader" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Broken rudder hinge > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > > Floran, > > The reason I thought you might be right about it being > vibration is because you said that the rudder worked > freely before. If there was an alignment problem, it > should have some over-center or binding that you can > feel, unless the mounts were spaced poorly and > stressed purely vertically only. You should be able > to check both problems when you remount the rudder > with new rod ends. > > If it was a rudder cable stress problem, the top one > shouldn't break IMHO. > > So I suppose bad vibes takes the lead guess for me, > unless it was binding and you didn't feel it because > it was already assembled. > > In any case, reassembly should give a pretty good > answer as top the cause. > > Kurt S. > > --- Floran Higgins wrote: > > > The top one and the third one down are the ones that > > sheared. It wasn't two in a row. > > > Floran H. > > > __________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:57 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Broken rudder hinge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan At 02:50 PM 8/14/2004 -0600, you wrote: >...morning I discovered that two of the four rod end bearings had sheared >off at the beginning of the threads. >Total time on the aircraft is 891 hrs. Threaded rod, like that found on the rudder rod end bearings, was never meant to take bending loads; and certainly not the repeated back and forth associated with rudder loads. The stress concentration in the threads leads to pre-mature fracture. When I get to that point I will figure out a way to replace the rod ends with something suitable for bending loads. Guy ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:58 AM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Kitfox-List: sparkplugs, 912, avgas --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net My friend with a 912 in a model iv-1200 could get his engine to start, not even a pop. we went through the process of verifying that all of the wiring to the ignition modules were in tact. not even a cough. the plugs were installed during annual condition inspection in June so were dismissed as a factor, but we checked them to see if the showed signs of fuel in the cylinders. Strange of strange, the plugs were neither black(rich), whitish(lean) or brown(proper) they were "leaden". Replaced the plugs, gapped to .020 and the engine fired after 2 blades. The apparent culprits were avgas used on a trip through the Idaho mountains with refuel at McCall ID with avgas without burning any premium after to burn the plugs clean' and not gapping the plugs during the annual replacement. -------------- Original message -------------- > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > > Hi ! Don, you seem a bit interested in plugs so I'd like to run something > past you and everyone else for that matter > . I'm an old Kart racer and plugs were always something you did the best you > could with. I also have a 582 in my MKIV and I do see things like the RPM > down a little on one ignition sometimes but be OK next time I check. I don't > really have problems but I get the feeling one could improve on the B8ES or > BR8ES depending if running resistor caps or not. I do believe in the idea > generally to stick to the proven path in aviation but in this case I think a > little deviation might not be a bad thing. > I am about to play with this idea anyway so others thoughts on the matter > might be an interesting discussion. If you find an NGK [ and I prefer the > brand in twostrokes ] plug chart you can work out a plug type for yourself > that you think would be good. You then look through the price list and see > if such a plug is offered. OK I have come up with two ideas I like. They are > B8EVX and B8ET basically. Now "B" means 14mm thread. "8" is the heat range > we want. "E" is 3/4" reach that we also want. If we put "R" after the "B" it > merely becomes a resistor plug for radio interference basically. > Now in my first choice B8EVX the "V" means fine wire gold palladium centre > electrode. This should result in more consistent firing and less fouling. > The "X" tells us it is a booster gap plug which allows the voltage to build > higher before the spark jumps the electrode gap. This is ideal with CDI and > for a twostroke which is a bit harder mixture to fire than straight fuel > especially starting or low RPM's. > With B8ET the "T" means 3 ground electrodes. I must admit to not playing > with this idea in a twostroke but the idea appeals to me to try because I > used the idea in a warm Chevy ski boat and it really improved idle > considerably. I've also owned a few Alfa Romeo cars and they used Golden > Lodge plugs with 4 ground electrodes. You could put in the equivalent > Champion plug with standard configeration electrodes and the motor > definitely wasn't as sweet. > So both directions interest me. If anyone wants to comment or try my idea > please feel free. I'll be interested in all feed back and if you do try my > idea and are pleased with the result you are very welcome. > > Rex. > PS > one source of supply in GB could not supply B8ET only BR8ET and do check > prices they vary dramatically. > rexjan@bigpond.com > > > > > > My friend with a 912 in a model iv-1200 could get his engine to start, not even a pop. we went through the process of verifying that all of the wiring to the ignition modules were in tact. not even a cough. the plugs were installed during annual condition inspection in June so were dismissed as a factor, but we checked them to see if the showed signs of fuel in the cylinders. Strange of strange, the plugs were neither black(rich), whitish(lean) or brown(proper) they were "leaden". Replaced the plugs, gapped to .020 and the engine fired after 2 blades. The apparent culprits were avgas used on a trip through the Idaho mountains with refuel at McCall ID with avgas without burning any premium after to burn the plugs clean' and not gapping the plugs during the annual replacement. -------------- Original message -------------- -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex Jan Shaw" Hi ! Don, you seem a bit interested in plugs so I'd like to run something past you and everyone else for that matter . I'm an old Kart racer and plugs were always something you did the best you could with. I also have a 582 in my MKIV and I do see things like the RPM down a little on one ignition sometimes but be OK next time I check. I don't really have problems but I get the feeling one could improve on the B8ES or BR8ES depending if running resistor caps or not. I do believe in the idea generally to stick to the proven path in aviation but in this case I think a little deviation might not be a bad thing. I am about to play with this idea anyway so other s thoughts on the matter might be an interesting discussion. If you find an NGK [ and I prefer the brand in twostrokes ] plug chart you can work out a plug type for yourself that you think would be good. You then look through the price list and see if such a plug is offered. OK I have come up with two ideas I like. They are B8EVX and B8ET basically. Now "B" means 14mm thread. "8" is the heat range we want. "E" is 3/4" reach that we also want. If we put "R" after the "B" it merely becomes a resistor plug for radio interference basically. Now in my first choice B8EVX the "V" means fine wire gold palladium centre electrode. This should result in more consistent firing and less fouling. The "X" tells us it is a booster gap plug which allows the voltage to build higher before the spark jumps the electrode gap. This is ideal with CDI and for a twostroke which is a bit harder mixture to fire than straight fuel especially starting or low RPM's. With B8ET the "T" means 3 ground electrodes. I must admit to not playing with this idea in a twostroke but the idea appeals to me to try because I used the idea in a warm Chevy ski boat and it really improved idle considerably. I've also owned a few Alfa Romeo cars and they used Golden Lodge plugs with 4 ground electrodes. You could put in the equivalent Champion plug with standard configeration electrodes and the motor definitely wasn't as sweet. So both directions interest me. If anyone wants to comment or try my idea please feel free. I'll be interested in all feed back and if you do try my idea and are pleased with the result you are very welcome. Rex. PS one source of supply in GB could not supply B8ET only BR8ET and do check prices they vary dramatically.
rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:32 AM PST US From: "Kerry Skyring" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel return line --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" Turning to the list again for advice. Our technical inspector has cast doubt on the practice of routing the fuel return line from the carburettors (S5 912ULS) back to the header tank. His thinking is that the tank is constantly under pressure thus prohibiting the return function. If we can't convince him otherwise we have to route it to one of the wing tanks. A lot of trouble when we want to get this thing flying. Could listers comment? Thanks Kerry > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:11 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: sparkplugs, 912, avgas --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" I am a distributor for Decalin TCP. It is a competitior to Alcor but much safer, can be carried in the cockpit and is easy to dispense... Syringe not needed. If you are burning 100LL you really do want to use a Lead Scavenger. I am only operating with 100LL and using the Decalin TCP. Plugs currently have 80 hours.. Not sure about the 912.. but isn't .020 a small gap... ? Ps.. the TCP is $19.50 +S&H and treats up to 320 gallons. Blue Skies John & Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Kitfox-List: sparkplugs, 912, avgas --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net My friend with a 912 in a model iv-1200 could get his engine to start, not even a pop. we went through the process of verifying that all of the wiring to the ignition modules were in tact. not even a cough. the plugs were installed during annual condition inspection in June so were dismissed as a factor, but we checked them to see if the showed signs of fuel in the cylinders. Strange of strange, the plugs were neither black(rich), whitish(lean) or brown(proper) they were "leaden". Replaced the plugs, gapped to .020 and the engine fired after 2 blades. The apparent culprits were avgas used on a trip through the Idaho mountains with refuel at McCall ID with avgas without burning any premium after to burn the plugs clean' and not gapping the plugs during the annual replacement. -------------- Original message -------------- > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > > Hi ! Don, you seem a bit interested in plugs so I'd like to run something > past you and everyone else for that matter > . I'm an old Kart racer and plugs were always something you did the best you > could with. I also have a 582 in my MKIV and I do see things like the RPM > down a little on one ignition sometimes but be OK next time I check. I don't > really have problems but I get the feeling one could improve on the B8ES or > BR8ES depending if running resistor caps or not. I do believe in the idea > generally to stick to the proven path in aviation but in this case I think a > little deviation might not be a bad thing. > I am about to play with this idea anyway so others thoughts on the matter > might be an interesting discussion. If you find an NGK [ and I prefer the > brand in twostrokes ] plug chart you can work out a plug type for yourself > that you think would be good. You then look through the price list and see > if such a plug is offered. OK I have come up with two ideas I like. They are > B8EVX and B8ET basically. Now "B" means 14mm thread. "8" is the heat range > we want. "E" is 3/4" reach that we also want. If we put "R" after the "B" it > merely becomes a resistor plug for radio interference basically. > Now in my first choice B8EVX the "V" means fine wire gold palladium centre > electrode. This should result in more consistent firing and less fouling. > The "X" tells us it is a booster gap plug which allows the voltage to build > higher before the spark jumps the electrode gap. This is ideal with CDI and > for a twostroke which is a bit harder mixture to fire than straight fuel > especially starting or low RPM's. > With B8ET the "T" means 3 ground electrodes. I must admit to not playing > with this idea in a twostroke but the idea appeals to me to try because I > used the idea in a warm Chevy ski boat and it really improved idle > considerably. I've also owned a few Alfa Romeo cars and they used Golden > Lodge plugs with 4 ground electrodes. You could put in the equivalent > Champion plug with standard configeration electrodes and the motor > definitely wasn't as sweet. > So both directions interest me. If anyone wants to comment or try my idea > please feel free. I'll be interested in all feed back and if you do try my > idea and are pleased with the result you are very welcome. > > Rex. > PS > one source of supply in GB could not supply B8ET only BR8ET and do check > prices they vary dramatically. > rexjan@bigpond.com > > My friend with a 912 in a model iv-1200 could get his engine to start, not even a pop. we went through the process of verifying that all of the wiring to the ignition modules were in tact. not even a cough. the plugs were installed during annual condition inspection in June so were dismissed as a factor, but we checked them to see if the showed signs of fuel in the cylinders. Strange of strange, the plugs were neither black(rich), whitish(lean) or brown(proper) they were "leaden". Replaced the plugs, gapped to .020 and the engine fired after 2 blades. The apparent culprits were avgas used on a trip through the Idaho mountains with refuel at McCall ID with avgas without burning any premium after to burn the plugs clean' and not gapping the plugs during the annual replacement. -------------- Original message -------------- -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex Jan Shaw" Hi ! Don, you seem a bit interested in plugs so I'd like to run something past you and everyone else for that matter . I'm an old Kart racer and plugs were always something you did the best you could with. I also have a 582 in my MKIV and I do see things like the RPM down a little on one ignition sometimes but be OK next time I check. I don't really have problems but I get the feeling one could improve on the B8ES or BR8ES depending if running resistor caps or not. I do believe in the idea generally to stick to the proven path in aviation but in this case I think a little deviation might not be a bad thing. I am about to play with this idea anyway so other s thoughts on the matter might be an interesting discussion. If you find an NGK [ and I prefer the brand in twostrokes ] plug chart you can work out a plug type for yourself that you think would be good. You then look through the price list and see if such a plug is offered. OK I have come up with two ideas I like. They are B8EVX and B8ET basically. Now "B" means 14mm thread. "8" is the heat range we want. "E" is 3/4" reach that we also want. If we put "R" after the "B" it merely becomes a resistor plug for radio interference basically. Now in my first choice B8EVX the "V" means fine wire gold palladium centre electrode. This should result in more consistent firing and less fouling. The "X" tells us it is a booster gap plug which allows the voltage to build higher before the spark jumps the electrode gap. This is ideal with CDI and for a twostroke which is a bit harder mixture to fire than straight fuel especially starting or low RPM's. With B8ET the "T" means 3 ground electrodes. I must admit to not playing with this idea in a twostroke but the idea appeals to me to try because I used the idea in a warm Chevy ski boat and it really improved idle considerably. I've also owned a few Alfa Romeo cars and they used Golden Lodge plugs with 4 ground electrodes. You could put in the equivalent Champion plug with standard configeration electrodes and the motor definitely wasn't as sweet. So both directions interest me. If anyone wants to comment or try my idea please feel free. I'll be interested in all feed back and if you do try my idea and are pleased with the result you are very welcome. Rex. PS one source of supply in GB could not supply B8ET only BR8ET and do check prices they vary dramatically.
rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:48 AM PST US From: "Bill Pleso" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Broken rudder hinge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bill Pleso" Builders, I'm in the process of building an older model Classic IV that has 4 rod end bearings for the rudder. The top 3 bearings are 10-32 and the bottom one is 1/4-28. If any one elese has had problems with this set-up, this would be the perfect time for me to change/modify it to avoid any future problems. Does anyone know if Skystar is still using rod end bearings for the rudder? Any opinions/advice would be appreciated. Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:59 AM PST US From: W Duke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel return line --> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke The IO240 installation has a vent line to a wing tank. Therefore there should not be any appreciable pressure in the tank. Maxwell Kerry Skyring wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" Turning to the list again for advice. Our technical inspector has cast doubt on the practice of routing the fuel return line from the carburettors (S5 912ULS) back to the header tank. His thinking is that the tank is constantly under pressure thus prohibiting the return function. If we can't convince him otherwise we have to route it to one of the wing tanks. A lot of trouble when we want to get this thing flying. Could listers comment? Thanks Kerry > > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:51 AM PST US From: "Ron" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel return line --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron" Hi Kerry, If your Tech Inspector is an EAA Technical Counselor his suggestions to you are just "suggestions" and you do not have to agree with him. He is to be respected for his experience but "We" are not always correct with everything we say. I, as a Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, am always seeking to learn anything that I am not positive of. Check with other listers for more opinions. If he is with the FAA, well, thats a different story. Ron N55KF > Turning to the list again for advice. > Our technical inspector has cast doubt on the practice of routing the fuel > return line from the carburettors (S5 912ULS) back to the header tank. His > thinking is that the tank is constantly under pressure thus prohibiting the > return function. If we can't convince him otherwise we have to route > it to one of the wing tanks. A lot of trouble when we want to get this thing > flying. > > Could listers comment? > Thanks > Kerry > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:11 PM PST US From: "Solar" Subject: Kitfox-List: Digital camera sound problem --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Solar" you could record the sound with another device, then match the two with any computer based editing system. I think that even the one that comes from microsoft in Windows XP will do that. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: OT: News from the north From: Torgeir Mortensen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen Hi Michel, I'm laughing to death... I'm tought I was about 70 kg sharp, I'll think, but never counted in that "bonne cuisine", what a mistake.. A-Ha, ha Cheers Torgeir. do not archive On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 22:00:41 +0200, Michel Verheughe wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > Torgeir Mortensen wrote: >> Got this one, the trip was "formidable". :).. > > Oh, l, l, formidable ... you sound almost like Maurice Chevalier, mon > ami! :-) > About the flapperon friction ... hum, it makes sense and I never thought > of it. > Now, tell us, did you eat a lot of "bonne cuisine" in France to gain so > much > weight that you've reached MTOW when flying? :-) > > Cheers, > Michel Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder hinge From: Torgeir Mortensen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen Hi Shane, How many "hinges" is mounted on your Kitfox? The position of the "loose" hinge is also interesting. Torgeir. On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:05:18 -0600, Shane Sather wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Shane Sather" > > During my preflight last week I noticed one of the rudder hinges was > loose. The bolt had backed off a bit. All the more reason for good > preflights for every flight. I think a little Lock Tight will address > this issue though. > PS I have a 912S and I seem to be able to start it up with not much > shake as I prime it good first. The shut down is a different story > though, as it can (not always) give a real good shake if I don't shut it > down before it runs too slow. > > Arctic Fox way up North > > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:31 PM PST US From: "Bob Robertson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel return line --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" Kerry, Seening as the return lines are there to eliminate vapor lock you will need a return line with at least a low enough pressure to allow the vapor (gas bubbles) to travel back to the tank. I guess the best bet is to put the open end of the return lines into the highest possible part of the fuel system to allow the vapor to escape. I doubt this would happen of you were attempting to vent these lines into a sealed header tank that is lower than the carbs/fuel distribution block. Hope this helps Bob Robertson Light Engine Services Ltd. Rotax Service Center St. Albert, Alberta --- Original Message ----- From: "Kerry Skyring" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel return line > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" > > Turning to the list again for advice. > Our technical inspector has cast doubt on the practice of routing the fuel > return line from the carburettors (S5 912ULS) back to the header tank. His > thinking is that the tank is constantly under pressure thus prohibiting the > return function. If we can't convince him otherwise we have to route > it to one of the wing tanks. A lot of trouble when we want to get this thing > flying. > > Could listers comment? > Thanks > Kerry > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flapperon friction. From: Torgeir Mortensen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen Hi Kurt, -and all others responding my question. Thanks for all your response. My Kitfox is a model II, there is four hinges on each wing, in addition is the nylon bearing. Between the nylon bearing and inner wing hinge the distance is approx. 5 inches. As I remember from my first flight with the Kitfox, I can't remember this "heavy" aileron, however at that time I maybe did not "detect" much of the details at all.. :) .. However, two years ago, I found the two middle hinges at both wing having very light torque. I.E. with just a pipe between my fingers, I was able to turn the two bolts holding the hinge. The two other hinges, the outer and the inner most was properly torqued. Also, I could move those two hinges slightly up and down (here was just a little slack). Maybe those two "lose" middle hinges (on each wing) released a little strain in bending the flapperon, -and in this way removed "some" of the friction making the stick (aileron) feel lighter. Just something I've been thinking about. Hmm. Think I'm gonna lift one of the wing, from the tip, just so that one main wheel is "airborne". :) Maybe this method can give some indication of the problem when moving the aileron. As far as I know, the model 2 and 3 is quite similar in this area. Also, the builder of my Fox said that, this wings is reinforced as pr. mod 3 specifications. Thou, the mod 3 is reinforced in the wing attachment area, and some around airframe "lift strut" attachment area. In addition the mod 3 has 1" "lift strut", right. Maybe the reduction to 3 flapperon hinges on the newer models is to reduce flapperon strain?? Just a thought. OK., thanks again folks, I'll report any findings. Regards Torgeir. On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:38:43 -0700 (PDT), kurt schrader wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > > > Hi Torgier, > > I forgot which model you have. Some people have > reported binding at those nylon bearings at the > inboard ends (under the turtle deck) when they are at > heavy weights. It was recommended that they be > removed. So far I am not up to that part of testing, > so I can not confirm. But then, I don't think you had > those bearings on your model, right? > > Other than that, I think you are right. It is > probably the wing bending outboard of the struts that > puts a load on the bearings. > > I still have 3 tight flapperon bearings on mine which > make the controls stiff in roll. I haven't found a > way to improve on that either. With the quick KF roll > rate, it hasn't been a problem. Gives it that "heavy" > feel that some like. I compare the feel of mine to a > C-180 with a higher roll rate and a stick. > > Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo > > --- Torgeir Mortensen wrote: > >> Hi Folks, >> >> During lot's of flying this summer I found that my >> aileron (flapperon) have some more friction during >> flight close to max. take off weight. When >> the wings is more loaded, they has a slight slope of >> course. This slope also tend to bend the flapperon >> "tube" and I'll think this is the reason >> for a more heavy aileron. Never thought about that, >> but this must be a known "observation". Does >> anyone out there have a fix for this, -or, is >> this something you have to live with? >> >> PS. My aileron is "very" light on ground. >> >> Torgeir. > > > __________________________________ > > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:58 PM PST US From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: rudder hinge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com Darrel and Don. I also believe that the hinge problem rests with the cheap "Aurora" bearings that were sent with the kit. I also kind of remember the manual stating one should screw in the bearing as close as possible and when you have the first one correctly positioned, then get a straight edge and tighten each other to align with the first. Not forgetting to keep the same distance from the vertical fin post. And then tighten the lock nut. The breakage could have happened because there was too much thread showing or the bearings were out of alignment / combination of both. I am building a Skybolt and recently purchase the "bearing assortment" from Steen Aero Lab, and they cost a fortune! But as Steen said, "The bearings, your joints should be the best available on the market" your ride is relying on them. They are made by Torrington Fafnir and some of them cost over $60.00 each. Now what am I going to do with the $18.00 worth of bearings I have holding my rudder on? First look for around for an $$$ alternative (they say the more money, the better the quality)! Until I find the alternative. I will make a very thorough check up on the rear end before every take off. Good subject matter gentlemen. Eric. Classic IV, Atlanta. e-mail; ceashman@aol.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:39 PM PST US From: Jerry Liles Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: rudder hinge --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles Michael, Your Mod III with the older type rudder mount is much less likely to become a problem than the rodend mounts of the later models. The pins in nylon bushings is pretty foolproof. Jerry Liles Michel Verheughe wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > >>From: AlbertaIV@aol.com >>Recommend everybody get out of bed and run to the airport for a survey of their >>personal installation and report back. >> >> > >.. quick Robin, to the Batmobile, our help is needed! :-) > >At my first annual, last year, the inspector looked at my rudder hinges and said: "Ha, ha! They are bended, you naughty boy!" Since I didn't build the plane myself, I needed a good look at them. It turned our that the hinges have nylon bushings and the pins are not centered in them. But they are certainly not bended. Looks more like a way to allow for excentricity of the rudder part and the vertical stab part. My pins are not threaded rods but smooth pins with a washer and a split pin at the end. > >.. is it normal, doctor? > >Cheers, >Michel > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:49 PM PST US From: "Kirk Martenson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" Lowell: My engine roughness is present all the time, even when I shut either of the mags off during the mag check at 3800 rpm. How did the tech at Oshkosh check the coils? Did your friend have to take the coil off the engine, or can a person check the coil with an ohmmeter? Also, I was told by many Rotax techies, that the CDI module either works, or it doesn't. Not true with your friend? He had one that half worked? Kirk Martenson Classic IV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > Kirk, I just changed out the wires and got a little relief from a roughness > that occurred between 42 and 4400 rpm > > The wires are 7 mm diameter and are available from any of the Rotax > distributors or elsewhere if you search. They have a stranded copper > conductor. They unscrew from the ends of the caps and the coils. Use a > dielectric grease when reassembling to prevent corrosion. The rubber outer > sheath can be removed if you want to. It is held to the wire by a dab of > adhesive that dried and hardened in use. Try pulling on the rubber sheath > to find the adhesive blob and then knead (twist) that area until the stuff > lets go. I didn't use any adhesive when putting the sheath on the new > wires. > > You will have to disassemble the modules / coils assembly to gain access to > the lower coils. It took about 2 hours or so for the job. > You don't want to replace the coils. they come at $250 a pop. > > One of the guys in our group flight to Oshkosh developed serious ignition > roughness during the last leg into OSH. It was at first traced to a coil - > got a new coil from Lockwood (you can indeed find anything at Airventure) > One of the Lockwood techies tested the old coil - bad. The new coil didn't > help - apparently not bad after all - makes you wonder. From the techie, > the coil is the most common point of failure in the system. We went back to > work and determined that an ignition module had failed in an unusual mode. > One side only failed affecting only two of the cylinders that module > serviced, hence the original coil diagnosis. After a $600 module was > installed the problem was solved. There was also a wire break in the bundle > from the stator. It is thought that this intermittent wire is what fried > half the module. The wires in the system are, as Gary V. once a member of > the list, called "crap" wires, and are very vulnerable to breaking somewhere > in the insulation due to engine vibration. > > Advice: Either move the modules to the firewall or oil tank supports or > bundle them so as to reduce their vulnerable to vibration. > > Lowell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kirk Martenson" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" > > > > Jim Burke: > > > > Do you have a Rotax 912 in your Kitfox? I have had a very slight rough > > running engine (Rotax 912UL). I changed the spark plugs, and rebuilt the > > carburetors. Still rough, but only slightly, no rpm drop. I would like > > change out the plug wires as well, but I don't know if you can just change > > the wires. Do you have to buy the whole coil? > > > > > > Kirk Martenson > > Classic IV > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Burke" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke > > > > > > Curious you should bring spark plugs up Don, I had a similar problem a > > > couple of weeks ago. I changed out the new plugs and the miss went away > > for > > > a couple of flights (about three hours). Then it came back. So I > replaced > > > the plugs wires and have put eight hours on the plane with no Miss. I > > guess > > > it could have been a bag of mixed tricks but it runs great now. > > > > > > > > > James E. Burke > > > (N94JE) > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > > > From: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > Date: 08/09/04 14:34:07 > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > > > > > I experienced a slight miss in my 582 engine. This started less > than > > 5 > > > hours after putting in new BR8ES plugs. I replace the plugs again today > > and > > > the miss went away. Old plugs looked brand new and color was excellent. > > > Has anyone ever had a new plug go bad in a short time? This is my > > first > > > > > > > > > Don Smythe > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:38 PM PST US From: "Jeffrey Puls" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" Jim, You may want to unscrew your caps and snip off a very little piece off the end. Screw the caps back on and tie wrap with a very small tie wrap. This sometimes helps. Jeff Classic IV. > [Original Message] > From: Kirk Martenson > To: > Date: 8/11/2004 11:20:34 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" > > Jim Burke: > > Do you have a Rotax 912 in your Kitfox? I have had a very slight rough > running engine (Rotax 912UL). I changed the spark plugs, and rebuilt the > carburetors. Still rough, but only slightly, no rpm drop. I would like > change out the plug wires as well, but I don't know if you can just change > the wires. Do you have to buy the whole coil? > > > Kirk Martenson > Classic IV > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Burke" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke > > > > Curious you should bring spark plugs up Don, I had a similar problem a > > couple of weeks ago. I changed out the new plugs and the miss went away > for > > a couple of flights (about three hours). Then it came back. So I replaced > > the plugs wires and have put eight hours on the plane with no Miss. I > guess > > it could have been a bag of mixed tricks but it runs great now. > > > > > > James E. Burke > > (N94JE) > > -------Original Message------- > > > > From: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Date: 08/09/04 14:34:07 > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Spark Plugs > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > > > I experienced a slight miss in my 582 engine. This started less than > 5 > > hours after putting in new BR8ES plugs. I replace the plugs again today > and > > the miss went away. Old plugs looked brand new and color was excellent. > > Has anyone ever had a new plug go bad in a short time? This is my > first > > > > > > Don Smythe > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:00 PM PST US From: "John E. King " Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: sparkplugs, 912, avgas --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " John, If you do not use a syringe to dispense the TCP, how do you know how much to use at a filling? What size of container is used for the $19.50 container? -- John King Warrenton, VA jdmcbean wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > >I am a distributor for Decalin TCP. It is a competitior to Alcor but much >safer, can be carried in the cockpit and is easy to dispense... Syringe not >needed. If you are burning 100LL you really do want to use a Lead Scavenger. >I am only operating with 100LL and using the Decalin TCP. Plugs currently >have 80 hours.. > >Not sure about the 912.. but isn't .020 a small gap... ? > >Ps.. the TCP is $19.50 +S&H and treats up to 320 gallons. > > >Blue Skies >John & Debra McBean >"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:00 PM PST US From: "jimshumaker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel return line --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" Bob I have been flying with my 912 UL for several years and this is the first I have heard of a vapor return line. I can not even concieve of one being after the fuel pump. What am I missing? Jim Shumaker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Robertson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel return line > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Robertson" > > Kerry, > Seening as the return lines are there to eliminate vapor lock you will need > a return line with at least a low enough pressure to allow the vapor (gas > bubbles) to travel back to the tank. I guess the best bet is to put the > open end of the return lines into the highest possible part of the fuel > system to allow the vapor to escape. I doubt this would happen of you were > attempting to vent these lines into a sealed header tank that is lower than > the carbs/fuel distribution block. > > Hope this helps > > Bob Robertson > Light Engine Services Ltd. > Rotax Service Center > St. Albert, Alberta > > > --- Original Message ----- > From: "Kerry Skyring" > To: > Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel return line > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" > > > > > Turning to the list again for advice. > > Our technical inspector has cast doubt on the practice of routing the fuel > > return line from the carburettors (S5 912ULS) back to the header tank. His > > thinking is that the tank is constantly under pressure thus prohibiting > the > > return function. If we can't convince him otherwise we have to route > > it to one of the wing tanks. A lot of trouble when we want to get this > thing > > flying. > > > > Could listers comment? > > Thanks > > Kerry > > > > > > > > > > > > > >