Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:32 AM - Re: Electric Prop Failure (kitfoxjunky)
2. 05:39 AM - Re: Kitfox IV on floats (Gary Algate)
3. 05:48 AM - Re: 912 UL (Kirk Martenson)
4. 06:06 AM - Re: 912 UL (Steve Magdic)
5. 06:47 AM - Re: 912 UL (flier)
6. 07:18 AM - Re: Re: TCP, 912, avgas (Lowell Fitt)
7. 07:18 AM - Re: Electric Prop Failure (John Oakley)
8. 07:20 AM - Re: Electric Prop Failure (Lowell Fitt)
9. 07:26 AM - Re: Electric Prop Failure (Rick)
10. 07:30 AM - Re: Electric Prop Failure (Lowell Fitt)
11. 07:35 AM - Re: 912 UL (Lowell Fitt)
12. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: TCP, 912, avgas (Clifford Begnaud)
13. 08:13 AM - Re: Electric Prop Failure (jdmcbean)
14. 08:20 AM - Re: Re: TCP, 912, avgas (jdmcbean)
15. 08:57 AM - Re: TCP, was: sparkplugs, 912, avgas (Michael Gibbs)
16. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: TCP, 912, avgas (jdmcbean)
17. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: TCP, 912, avgas (Clifford Begnaud)
18. 10:30 AM - Kitfox Kit Wanted (Vic Jacko)
19. 11:10 AM - Low fuel alarm (Fox5flyer)
20. 11:12 AM - Re: 912 UL (flier)
21. 11:43 AM - Re: Low fuel alarm (flier)
22. 12:48 PM - Re: Electric Prop Failure (kitfoxjunky)
23. 12:52 PM - Re: Low fuel alarm (Mark Schindler)
24. 01:43 PM - Re: Fuel return line (Kerry Skyring)
25. 02:11 PM - Re: Re: TCP, 912, avgas (jdmcbean)
26. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: TCP, 912, avgas (Lowell Fitt)
27. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: TCP, 912, avgas (Rick)
28. 05:16 PM - TCP (Jeffrey Puls)
29. 06:24 PM - new member here (Lynn Matteson)
30. 06:51 PM - Re: new member here (Fred Shiple)
31. 06:53 PM - Re: Low fuel alarm (Fox5flyer)
32. 06:53 PM - Re: new member here (Don Pearsall)
33. 06:58 PM - Re: new member here (Fox5flyer)
34. 07:44 PM - Re: new member here (Dee Young)
35. 09:55 PM - Re: new member here (jdmcbean)
36. 09:59 PM - Re: new member here (Lynn Matteson)
37. 11:05 PM - Re: Electric Prop Failure (kurt schrader)
38. 11:36 PM - Re: Low fuel alarm (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Electric Prop Failure |
06:31:35 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxjunky" <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
My blades moved fore and aft as well. I had talked to Lance about this, and
he indicated that they would seat once the RPM came up, and this was
normal. The prop was installed on the airplane before I bought it, so I am
not sure what the movement was like when it was new. In hindsight I think
the greese was a good indicator. I used to only get a little greese around
the cowl. I was seeing much more seeping out, which to me means that there
was more rocking movement in the blades. I thought it was the O rings, and
had a new set that I was about to install but never got the opportunity.
If you do not have a lot of greese in the hub, then you will not see this.
Everyone I talked to says the slipper clutch really smooths out the 912S
during startup and shutdown. If the fatigue is caused from vibration at
higher RPM, then it may not have any effect. If it is the low end cycles,
then it may be effective.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.co To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
m> cc:
Sent by: Subject: RE: Kitfox-List:
Electric Prop Failure
owner-kitfox-list-server@ma
tronics.com
08/19/2004 02:23 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
John,
In what way do your blades move?
Mine was loose in pitch until I rebuilt it. All the
blades moved together, but you could twist them a good
bit by hand. Made it hard to set power when the rpm
jumped up or down by 400 rpm.
I know it is tight in the other ways because I hit my
head on it often enough trying to work around it in
tight quarters. :-(
One thing that does bother me a little is that the
prop hub moves a good bit vertically when the GB is
warm after a flight. In other words, I can grab a
blade tip and move it fore and aft and see much more
prop shaft (not blade) play than when cold. But the
GB doesn't leak, so it must be designed to do that?
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- John Oakley <joakley@ida.net> wrote:
..........
> Mine has a lot of movement in the blades that
> has always scared me but done well for over 500
> hours in a 912 ul. that my story and I am sticking
> to it unless proved wrong.
>
> John Oakley
_______________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | Kitfox IV on floats |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Maurice
I'm not sure of you are the gentlemen interested in purchasing Marc
Arsenault's plane but the following is my experience with my Lite2 (Model 4)
with Zenair 1150 aluminum floats.
Without Floats With Floats
Cruise 90 mph 85mph
Rate climb 680 ft/min 500ft/min
Fuel burn 19 Ltr/min 18 Ltr/min
Above based on full fuel / no passenger (86 Ltr fuel)'
Take of run is about 600 ft or 7 seconds (mild chop 25 degC)
As you add weight of course the take off run extends and the Rate of climb
decreases but most of my flying was done with one passenger (about 170lb)
and myself (170lb) and my initial climb rate was 350 - 400 ft/min and I
still cruised at 85mph.
The 1150's are very buoyant for my Kitfox and therefore tend to get out of
the water very quickly with little tendency to "stick" but of course on
glassy water and a passenger you need to work the surface or lift one float
to ease take off - these are just normal water operation procedures.
I rarely fly at full gross as I fly purely for recreation and the biggest
load I carry with exception of passenger and fuel is i/2 dozen fish and my
normal safety kit/ paddles and inflatable life jackets.
I put over 275 hrs on my Zenair's in the past 2-1/2 Years and loved the
experience - even with my full load I still take off in half the distance of
the local 172's and I my performance climb out makes them look like slugs.
I often side slipped with the Zenairs and have carried out both power on and
power off stalls and have a number of intentional dead stick landings. In
all cases there was really no difference to normal wheel set up.
Hope this helps
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Maurice Fraser
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV on floats
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Maurice Fraser <mfraser@gokenora.com>
Hi All
Can anyone tell me how a Kitfox IV 1200 with a 582 will perform on Zenair
1150 aluminum floats? I would like to know about payload and take off
distances rate of climb and cruise speed. If anyone can help me out with
these questions or any other information please let me know.
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
The engine has a slight roughness to it that can be heard mostly at cruise
(5400) rpm. We had some hot days over a month ago, about 92 degrees F.
During those hot days I was trying to duplicate the symptoms, so I climbed
out at a steep angle, and the engine sounded like one of the ignition
systems was shut off. I then chocked the wheels on the ground, and ran the
engine up to full rpm. The same thing happened, it sounded like one of the
ignition switches was shut off.
Now the weather has been cooler, and I cannot get the engine to cut out at
full rpm like it had, but it still has that slight roughness to it at all
rpms, but most notably at cruise power.
Kirk
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
<jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Kirk
>
> You are within the margin of error for the coil Resistance. The
> fluctuationis most likely the connections or the leads. If the coils are
> not faulted to ground then the restistance value is ok.
>
> What are the symptoms?
>
> Jim Shumaker
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > To all those electrically minded people out there. I found a bad coil
on
> my Rotax 912 UL. By bad I mean, I used the ohmmeter and got 5.93k ohms
from
> the one coil. The spec says it should be 6.1 to 6.7k ohms. I set the
coil
> on a bench and heated it with a heat gun. I then tested it and got 6.1k
> ohms to 6.3k ohms but it fluctuates back and forth. Is the coil toast?
> >
> > Kirk Martenson
> > Classic IV
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
This may have nothing to do with your problem but may be worth checking.
Several months ago I had experienced the same symptoms with my 912 at
high/full rpm's.
My problem was due to a carb socket being split at the clamp. At high rpm's
along with heat, the split would open up causing two cylinders to go lean
and hence run rough. It took me a while to locate the cause. I didn't notice
any problem on my instruments because the EGT probe was installed in the
opposite side.
Good luck.
Steve Magdic
N490PA
-----Original Message-----
From: Kirk Martenson [mailto:kirk@mninter.net]
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
The engine has a slight roughness to it that can be heard mostly at cruise
(5400) rpm. We had some hot days over a month ago, about 92 degrees F.
During those hot days I was trying to duplicate the symptoms, so I climbed
out at a steep angle, and the engine sounded like one of the ignition
systems was shut off. I then chocked the wheels on the ground, and ran the
engine up to full rpm. The same thing happened, it sounded like one of the
ignition switches was shut off.
Now the weather has been cooler, and I cannot get the engine to cut out at
full rpm like it had, but it still has that slight roughness to it at all
rpms, but most notably at cruise power.
Kirk
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
<jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Kirk
>
> You are within the margin of error for the coil Resistance. The
> fluctuationis most likely the connections or the leads. If the coils are
> not faulted to ground then the restistance value is ok.
>
> What are the symptoms?
>
> Jim Shumaker
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > To all those electrically minded people out there. I found a bad coil
on
> my Rotax 912 UL. By bad I mean, I used the ohmmeter and got 5.93k ohms
from
> the one coil. The spec says it should be 6.1 to 6.7k ohms. I set the
coil
> on a bench and heated it with a heat gun. I then tested it and got 6.1k
> ohms to 6.3k ohms but it fluctuates back and forth. Is the coil toast?
> >
> > Kirk Martenson
> > Classic IV
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Hey Kirk,
You cruise at 5400rpm? For some reason I was
thinking normal cruise for the 912UL was 5000 with
only short periods above 5300. Point me in the right
direction on the info if I'm mistaken!
TIA,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson"
<kirk@mninter.net>
>
>The engine has a slight roughness to it that can be
heard mostly at cruise
>(5400) rpm. We had some hot days over a month ago,
about 92 degrees F.
>During those hot days I was trying to duplicate the
symptoms, so I climbed
>out at a steep angle, and the engine sounded like
one of the ignition
>systems was shut off. I then chocked the wheels on
the ground, and ran the
>engine up to full rpm. The same thing happened, it
sounded like one of the
>ignition switches was shut off.
>
>Now the weather has been cooler, and I cannot get
the engine to cut out at
>full rpm like it had, but it still has that slight
roughness to it at all
>rpms, but most notably at cruise power.
>
>
>Kirk
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
><jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> Kirk
>>
>> You are within the margin of error for the coil
Resistance. The
>> fluctuationis most likely the connections or the
leads. If the coils are
>> not faulted to ground then the restistance value
is ok.
>>
>> What are the symptoms?
>>
>> Jim Shumaker
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
>>
>>
>> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk
Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
>> >
>> > Hello:
>> >
>> > To all those electrically minded people out
there. I found a bad coil
>on
>> my Rotax 912 UL. By bad I mean, I used the
ohmmeter and got 5.93k ohms
>from
>> the one coil. The spec says it should be 6.1 to
6.7k ohms. I set the
>coil
>> on a bench and heated it with a heat gun. I then
tested it and got 6.1k
>> ohms to 6.3k ohms but it fluctuates back and
forth. Is the coil toast?
>> >
>> > Kirk Martenson
>> > Classic IV
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>_-
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Forums.
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: TCP, 912, avgas |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
I think I should report an incident in the trip recently to Oshkosh. We
stopped in Afton Wyoming for fuel and lodging. When the engine cooled a
bit, I did a couple of rotations of the prop and as one of the guys later
commented, It was as I was turning a turbine. I had at least four stuck
valves. Eric Tucker attributed it to 100LL and the lead. We got some ATF
put it all into one tank and then the group flew over Afton and environs
that evening for a little recreation that evening. All was fine from then
on.
Mark another in our group had this issue a couple of years ago on one of our
Idaho trips.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <Ceashman@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
>
>
> Hello Clifford.
>
> Thanks for writing about your experiences of using 100 LL in the Rotax 912
> UL.
> I kinda realize there are a lot of folks using this fuel.
> But you know what it's like, lots of different stories like the valves
> crudding up too soon and the plugs prematurely fouling. To the fiberglass
fuel tank
> being perforated (It makes me feel like standing on the edge of a rocky
cliff
> top somewhere in Main, belching, and looking for the "purple pill" Nexium)
> Anyway, I am ordering a bottle of TCP from John. It makes me feel a lot
more
> comfortable. I have only 75 hours on my motor. When I get a couple of
hundred
> more, I will also have gained more confidence and not be as influenced
with
> all the frightening gossip that comes from the media...no more Nexium!!
>
> Again, Thank you Clifford for a candid view of reality.
> Cheers. Eric. Classic IV, Atlanta
>
> e-mail; ceashman@aol.com
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Electric Prop Failure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
Kurt,
My blades move quite a bit when I grab then an exert small pressure on the
tips.
you can see them move at the hub. I have always been afraid they will
strike the
hub and fracture the boot on startup. The area we have seen break this week
is
the spot I always expected. I don't see a reason to panic yet but sure am
going
to take a better look. I have been thinking of having NSI overhaul or
inspect mine,
and maybe a new set of blades installed to tighten up things. I ever noticed
a
gearbox movement. Last year we went through a bout with carb ice and the
engine
was rough as heck. I have had a vibration ever since, that I have not been
able
to find, hummm.
John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Electric Prop Failure
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
John,
In what way do your blades move?
Mine was loose in pitch until I rebuilt it. All the
blades moved together, but you could twist them a good
bit by hand. Made it hard to set power when the rpm
jumped up or down by 400 rpm.
I know it is tight in the other ways because I hit my
head on it often enough trying to work around it in
tight quarters. :-(
One thing that does bother me a little is that the
prop hub moves a good bit vertically when the GB is
warm after a flight. In other words, I can grab a
blade tip and move it fore and aft and see much more
prop shaft (not blade) play than when cold. But the
GB doesn't leak, so it must be designed to do that?
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- John Oakley <joakley@ida.net> wrote:
..........
> Mine has a lot of movement in the blades that
> has always scared me but done well for over 500
> hours in a 912 ul. that my story and I am sticking
> to it unless proved wrong.
>
> John Oakley
_______________________________
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Prop Failure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
John, what prop was Ray Volk running when he threw a blade?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Electric Prop Failure
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> I do not recall if SkyStar ever used the prop. I do not believe they
have.
> When I was working at SS I had two reports of blades departing the hub..
> both on 912's
>
> One of the customers brought his aircraft into SS on a trailer for repairs
> and parts.
>
> Blue Skies
> John & Debra McBean
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Electric Prop Failure
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Gary, I'm sorry to hear about your incident and I'm thankful that you were
> able to get yourself and son on the ground without injury.
> I've only heard of one other failure of an NSI and that was with a Lyc
0320
> about 7 or 8 years ago.. Lance had specifically warned against using it
on
> the 0320 as the prop hub wasn't beefy enough to handle the tortional
> vibrations of that direct drive engine. Shortly after he developed a
> heavier hub (160?) to handle bigger engines.
> This is the first I've heard of any problems with NSI props at Skystar.
> This is the first time I've heard that Skystar ever used an NSI prop.
Maybe
> John can fill us in on the specifics of what he knows about this.
> Darrel
>
> > Gary,
> >
> > Excellent handling of the situation, both in flight
> > and after. Glad you are all OK.
> >
> > I have the NSI CAP prop too.
> >
> > I wonder if all 3 failures were with the 912? Or...
> >
> > With all the extra grease, I wonder if the prop was
> > properly assembled by the previous owner or NSI. The
> > grease seems like an attempt to overcome some extra
> > friction. It will be important to identify the
> > failure mode. Did you ever test the prop for the time
> > it takes to run full throw? I wonder if it was over
> > torqued at some time too to make up for a bad fit?
> >
> > Sounds like the cuff was damaged somehow.
> >
> > Big rule here: If something doesn't fit, don't force
> > it!
> >
> > I agree that the Warp blades are strong. But I have
> > always had a general fear of my prop. Probably
> > because I put it together. ha ha Just me...
> >
> > Thanks for all the info,
> >
> > Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
> >
> > --- kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On June 26 I departed Brantford Ontario in my Kitfox
> > > IV Anphib for Baker
> > > Valley airport,
> > ..........
> > > we experienced an incredible noise and vibration.
> > >
> > > Surprisingly, the blade itself was in very good
> > > condition. I knew Warp drive made a tough blade,
> > > but I never would have believed it could take that
> > > level of abuse without breaking into pieces.
> > >
> > > Of course the NSI hub was damaged. One blade had
> > > departed cleanly from the
> > > hub, with half of the cuff remaining in the hub and
> > > the remainder on the
> > > end of the blade.
> > > I had reported to NSI that there was in increase in
> > > greese being thrown from the hub. The previous owner
> >
> > > had put lots of greese in the hub when he
> > > assembled it.
> > >
> > > The prop assembly was then removed and sent to
> > > Cambridge Material Testing Labs.
> > >
> > > NSI is still investigating, and have told me they
> > > will be contacting
> > > customers running the 912S and Cap 140 combination
> > > once they have completed
> > > their investigation.
> >
> > > Look at the groove that runs around the outside of
> > > the cuff. It appears to act as a stress riser,
> > > and seems to be where the crack originated.
> > >
> > > Considering all the possible scenarios, we were very
> > > lucky.
> > >
> > > Gary Walsh
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Electric Prop Failure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
I tried to speak with Lance yesterday. He is recovering from some serious
and painful knee surgery. I did talk to Craig. His knowledge of this subject
was excellent. According to Craig the problem is limited to the 912 family ,
in particular the turbo 912. Extreme tonsorial vibration, sometimes
exceeding 9Gs
on start up and shut down. The RPM specified 2100, is for the 912 not the
Subaru. There is suppose to be a service bulletin out and a hub change for
earlier model 140s used with the 912. He wasn't sure of the year but is
going to do the research. They have the failed assembly and will be testing.
Again, Craig indicated there should be some failure indicators such as a
loose blade and not a sudden good to bad , failure incident. I too was
concerned since I fly behind an older CAP 140. I do have the internal
upgrade but not the beefier hub assembly. Almost 600 hours and all is tight.
I did tear it down once at about 300 hours. Looked perfect, greased it and
back together. I believe Lance indicated a 500 hour inspection and lube on
the hub, don't quote me. I don't want my blades landing before me either.
Good luck to all the 912 folks.
Rick N6
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Prop Failure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Jim, according to Eric Tucker at the Rotax Forum at OSH, he called the
"slipper clutch" a sort of misnomer. The clutch assembly - a series of
disks, is designed to protect the drive and engine in the event of a prop
strike. It will not slip in either direction with hand propping. The
torsional vibration damper has been redesigned in that modification, giving
more movement in the prop before the dogs lock. This reduces the severe
vibration sometimes seen on start up of the 912S.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Crowder" <jimlc@att.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Electric Prop Failure
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
>
> At 12:52 PM 8/18/2004, Darrel wrote:
> >I've only heard of one other failure of an NSI and that was with a Lyc
0320
> >about 7 or 8 years ago.. Lance had specifically warned against using it
on
> >the 0320 as the prop hub wasn't beefy enough to handle the tortional
> >vibrations of that direct drive engine. Shortly after he developed a
> >heavier hub (160?) to handle bigger engines.
>
> This is consistent with my recollection, although there could have been
> more than one failure with Lycoming and Continental type engines before
NSI
> recommended the CAP not be used with those engines.
>
> From NSI Technical Data: "The NSI propeller speed reduction used is one
> of the reasons why your SUBER! engine runs and performs so smoothly. This
> propeller speed reduction used spur gears for speed reduction. The output
> module includes a special clutch to transmit the power from the spur gears
> to the propeller shaft. The clutch does more than reduce the torsional
> shock that the system experiences, it complete eliminates the production
of
> torsional vibration."
>
> This is the reason the NSI EA81's propellers free wheel when not being
> driven. Does anyone know of any CAP failures of this nature when used
with
> NSI's engines? Hearsay is of little use in such reports and often is not
> even factual. The information Gary Walsh provides us is helpful.
>
> I am only just aware that there has been a thread regarding a "slipper
> clutch" and the 912S. Gary mentions installing one after the
> incident. What is the purpose of the slipper clutch and could it serve a
> function similar to NSI's reduction unit? I wish I had paid more
attention
> to the discussion regarding the slipper clutch. Could not having it have
> been a factor in the failure?
>
> Of course this has gotten my attention and I will certainly give mine a
> closer inspection before N64026 flies again. I thank Gary for his very
> factual and objective report.
>
> Jim Crowder
>
>
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Rotax recommends max continuous cruise 5500 rpm. I have hear this several
times at Rotax seminars - SS fly-in and other places.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Hey Kirk,
>
> You cruise at 5400rpm? For some reason I was
> thinking normal cruise for the 912UL was 5000 with
> only short periods above 5300. Point me in the right
> direction on the info if I'm mistaken!
>
> TIA,
>
> Ted
>
>
> --- Original Message ---
> From: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson"
> <kirk@mninter.net>
> >
> >The engine has a slight roughness to it that can be
> heard mostly at cruise
> >(5400) rpm. We had some hot days over a month ago,
> about 92 degrees F.
> >During those hot days I was trying to duplicate the
> symptoms, so I climbed
> >out at a steep angle, and the engine sounded like
> one of the ignition
> >systems was shut off. I then chocked the wheels on
> the ground, and ran the
> >engine up to full rpm. The same thing happened, it
> sounded like one of the
> >ignition switches was shut off.
> >
> >Now the weather has been cooler, and I cannot get
> the engine to cut out at
> >full rpm like it had, but it still has that slight
> roughness to it at all
> >rpms, but most notably at cruise power.
> >
> >
> >Kirk
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
> >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
> >
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
> ><jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
> >>
> >> Kirk
> >>
> >> You are within the margin of error for the coil
> Resistance. The
> >> fluctuationis most likely the connections or the
> leads. If the coils are
> >> not faulted to ground then the restistance value
> is ok.
> >>
> >> What are the symptoms?
> >>
> >> Jim Shumaker
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
> >> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
> >>
> >>
> >> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk
> Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
> >> >
> >> > Hello:
> >> >
> >> > To all those electrically minded people out
> there. I found a bad coil
> >on
> >> my Rotax 912 UL. By bad I mean, I used the
> ohmmeter and got 5.93k ohms
> >from
> >> the one coil. The spec says it should be 6.1 to
> 6.7k ohms. I set the
> >coil
> >> on a bench and heated it with a heat gun. I then
> tested it and got 6.1k
> >> ohms to 6.3k ohms but it fluctuates back and
> forth. Is the coil toast?
> >> >
> >> > Kirk Martenson
> >> > Classic IV
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> list
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: TCP, 912, avgas |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Lowell,
Interesting report! How about putting it in context by providing some
background, i.e., how many hours on engine, how many hours using 100LL, how
many of those with TCP etc. Also, was it actually verified that lead was the
cause? If so, how?
Thanks,
Cliff
>
> I think I should report an incident in the trip recently to Oshkosh. We
> stopped in Afton Wyoming for fuel and lodging. When the engine cooled a
> bit, I did a couple of rotations of the prop and as one of the guys later
> commented, It was as I was turning a turbine. I had at least four stuck
> valves. Eric Tucker attributed it to 100LL and the lead. We got some ATF
> put it all into one tank and then the group flew over Afton and environs
> that evening for a little recreation that evening. All was fine from then
> on.
>
> Mark another in our group had this issue a couple of years ago on one of
our
> Idaho trips.
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Ceashman@aol.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
> >
> >
> > Hello Clifford.
> >
> > Thanks for writing about your experiences of using 100 LL in the Rotax
912
> > UL.
> > I kinda realize there are a lot of folks using this fuel.
> > But you know what it's like, lots of different stories like the valves
> > crudding up too soon and the plugs prematurely fouling. To the
fiberglass
> fuel tank
> > being perforated (It makes me feel like standing on the edge of a rocky
> cliff
> > top somewhere in Main, belching, and looking for the "purple pill"
Nexium)
> > Anyway, I am ordering a bottle of TCP from John. It makes me feel a lot
> more
> > comfortable. I have only 75 hours on my motor. When I get a couple of
> hundred
> > more, I will also have gained more confidence and not be as influenced
> with
> > all the frightening gossip that comes from the media...no more Nexium!!
> >
> > Again, Thank you Clifford for a candid view of reality.
> > Cheers. Eric. Classic IV, Atlanta
> >
> > e-mail; ceashman@aol.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Electric Prop Failure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Cap 140 with Warp Blades....
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Electric Prop Failure
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
John, what prop was Ray Volk running when he threw a blade?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Electric Prop Failure
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> I do not recall if SkyStar ever used the prop. I do not believe they
have.
> When I was working at SS I had two reports of blades departing the hub..
> both on 912's
>
> One of the customers brought his aircraft into SS on a trailer for repairs
> and parts.
>
> Blue Skies
> John & Debra McBean
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fox5flyer
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Electric Prop Failure
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Gary, I'm sorry to hear about your incident and I'm thankful that you were
> able to get yourself and son on the ground without injury.
> I've only heard of one other failure of an NSI and that was with a Lyc
0320
> about 7 or 8 years ago.. Lance had specifically warned against using it
on
> the 0320 as the prop hub wasn't beefy enough to handle the tortional
> vibrations of that direct drive engine. Shortly after he developed a
> heavier hub (160?) to handle bigger engines.
> This is the first I've heard of any problems with NSI props at Skystar.
> This is the first time I've heard that Skystar ever used an NSI prop.
Maybe
> John can fill us in on the specifics of what he knows about this.
> Darrel
>
> > Gary,
> >
> > Excellent handling of the situation, both in flight
> > and after. Glad you are all OK.
> >
> > I have the NSI CAP prop too.
> >
> > I wonder if all 3 failures were with the 912? Or...
> >
> > With all the extra grease, I wonder if the prop was
> > properly assembled by the previous owner or NSI. The
> > grease seems like an attempt to overcome some extra
> > friction. It will be important to identify the
> > failure mode. Did you ever test the prop for the time
> > it takes to run full throw? I wonder if it was over
> > torqued at some time too to make up for a bad fit?
> >
> > Sounds like the cuff was damaged somehow.
> >
> > Big rule here: If something doesn't fit, don't force
> > it!
> >
> > I agree that the Warp blades are strong. But I have
> > always had a general fear of my prop. Probably
> > because I put it together. ha ha Just me...
> >
> > Thanks for all the info,
> >
> > Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
> >
> > --- kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On June 26 I departed Brantford Ontario in my Kitfox
> > > IV Anphib for Baker
> > > Valley airport,
> > ..........
> > > we experienced an incredible noise and vibration.
> > >
> > > Surprisingly, the blade itself was in very good
> > > condition. I knew Warp drive made a tough blade,
> > > but I never would have believed it could take that
> > > level of abuse without breaking into pieces.
> > >
> > > Of course the NSI hub was damaged. One blade had
> > > departed cleanly from the
> > > hub, with half of the cuff remaining in the hub and
> > > the remainder on the
> > > end of the blade.
> > > I had reported to NSI that there was in increase in
> > > greese being thrown from the hub. The previous owner
> >
> > > had put lots of greese in the hub when he
> > > assembled it.
> > >
> > > The prop assembly was then removed and sent to
> > > Cambridge Material Testing Labs.
> > >
> > > NSI is still investigating, and have told me they
> > > will be contacting
> > > customers running the 912S and Cap 140 combination
> > > once they have completed
> > > their investigation.
> >
> > > Look at the groove that runs around the outside of
> > > the cuff. It appears to act as a stress riser,
> > > and seems to be where the crack originated.
> > >
> > > Considering all the possible scenarios, we were very
> > > lucky.
> > >
> > > Gary Walsh
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: TCP, 912, avgas |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
There were also stuck valves in the Series 7 and the Sport aircraft during
the last year when the Alcor TCP was not available.... Except for the home
field they were run 100LL.
I do think if you are using 100LL you should use a lead scavenger. They
call it Low Lead.. it is everything but low in lead.
With TCP some white deposits may be seen on the plugs and in the exhaust
pipe during use, this is normal since the lead in the fuel is being
converted to non conductive lead phosphate. When no additive is used, lead
oxide is formed. It is lead oxide which causes plugs to misfire due to its
partial conductivity shorting out the plug. In addition, lead oxide tends
to form in large clumps or clinkers whereas the lead phosphate is a crumbly
and if any is left behind in the combustion chamber it deposits in even
layers.
If you have an oxygen sensor.. make sure you remove and clean your oxygen
sensor every 20 hours to remove these lead phosphate deposits when using
TCP.
I also feel that using the correct oil and changing the oil every 25-30
hours helps significantly.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
I think I should report an incident in the trip recently to Oshkosh. We
stopped in Afton Wyoming for fuel and lodging. When the engine cooled a
bit, I did a couple of rotations of the prop and as one of the guys later
commented, It was as I was turning a turbine. I had at least four stuck
valves. Eric Tucker attributed it to 100LL and the lead. We got some ATF
put it all into one tank and then the group flew over Afton and environs
that evening for a little recreation that evening. All was fine from then
on.
Mark another in our group had this issue a couple of years ago on one of our
Idaho trips.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <Ceashman@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
>
>
> Hello Clifford.
>
> Thanks for writing about your experiences of using 100 LL in the Rotax 912
> UL.
> I kinda realize there are a lot of folks using this fuel.
> But you know what it's like, lots of different stories like the valves
> crudding up too soon and the plugs prematurely fouling. To the fiberglass
fuel tank
> being perforated (It makes me feel like standing on the edge of a rocky
cliff
> top somewhere in Main, belching, and looking for the "purple pill" Nexium)
> Anyway, I am ordering a bottle of TCP from John. It makes me feel a lot
more
> comfortable. I have only 75 hours on my motor. When I get a couple of
hundred
> more, I will also have gained more confidence and not be as influenced
with
> all the frightening gossip that comes from the media...no more Nexium!!
>
> Again, Thank you Clifford for a candid view of reality.
> Cheers. Eric. Classic IV, Atlanta
>
> e-mail; ceashman@aol.com
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: TCP, was: sparkplugs, 912, avgas |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michael Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> > Sometimes I feel tethered to my home airport because I don't want to risk
> > using 100LL in my 912 UL. But if I can keep a bottle of this led scavenger
> > in the baggage area, I can fillerup wherever.
Isn't it funny how differently people look at the same situation? A
buddy told me just a few weeks ago how he will never run auto fuel in
his 'fox again. His carbs were completely gunked up and he blames
the fuel. It may have to do with the various additives the refiners
include that vary by region, but here in the southwest U.S. I've had
the same problems with my motorcycle's carbs. I don't believe that
the auto fuel we get here is as stable as avgas when it sits. Maybe
he just needs to fly every day :-)
I've run nothing but 100LL in my 912ULS and, after a few hours of
running it straight, I now add 4 ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil to each
10 gallons of fuel. Mine is too young to provide any useful
information, but other members of the Desert Fox Squadron tell me
that the mystery goop is effective at dealing with the lead content
of the fuel and the engines like it. Other members are using TCP
with good results as well.
Mike G.
N728KF
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: TCP, 912, avgas |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Cliff,
Before you ask... Yes lead was the cause on the factory aircraft. It was
determined by pulling the valves and you could see it on the cylinders. It
occurred during the phase that one could not get TCP and the aircraft were
being run without it. Never had an issue with the Series 6 or the Lite
when operating with the TCP and didn't have any issues on the 7 or the Sport
prior when using the TCP. Times on the engines varied between 250 hours and
500 hours. Problems seem to occur in the 100 to 200 time range without the
TCP.
Believe it or not Continental and Lycoming have suggested its use for a long
time. TCP is not new to the industry.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clifford Begnaud
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Lowell,
Interesting report! How about putting it in context by providing some
background, i.e., how many hours on engine, how many hours using 100LL, how
many of those with TCP etc. Also, was it actually verified that lead was the
cause? If so, how?
Thanks,
Cliff
>
> I think I should report an incident in the trip recently to Oshkosh. We
> stopped in Afton Wyoming for fuel and lodging. When the engine cooled a
> bit, I did a couple of rotations of the prop and as one of the guys later
> commented, It was as I was turning a turbine. I had at least four stuck
> valves. Eric Tucker attributed it to 100LL and the lead. We got some ATF
> put it all into one tank and then the group flew over Afton and environs
> that evening for a little recreation that evening. All was fine from then
> on.
>
> Mark another in our group had this issue a couple of years ago on one of
our
> Idaho trips.
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Ceashman@aol.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
> >
> >
> > Hello Clifford.
> >
> > Thanks for writing about your experiences of using 100 LL in the Rotax
912
> > UL.
> > I kinda realize there are a lot of folks using this fuel.
> > But you know what it's like, lots of different stories like the valves
> > crudding up too soon and the plugs prematurely fouling. To the
fiberglass
> fuel tank
> > being perforated (It makes me feel like standing on the edge of a rocky
> cliff
> > top somewhere in Main, belching, and looking for the "purple pill"
Nexium)
> > Anyway, I am ordering a bottle of TCP from John. It makes me feel a lot
> more
> > comfortable. I have only 75 hours on my motor. When I get a couple of
> hundred
> > more, I will also have gained more confidence and not be as influenced
> with
> > all the frightening gossip that comes from the media...no more Nexium!!
> >
> > Again, Thank you Clifford for a candid view of reality.
> > Cheers. Eric. Classic IV, Atlanta
> >
> > e-mail; ceashman@aol.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: TCP, 912, avgas |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
John,
Here's what I'm driving at.... no doubt that TCP should be used, but it may
be that other factors can contribute to lead problems or help alleviate
them. For example, we changed our oil every 25-30 hours (25 most of the
time) used high quality oil, often mixed auto gas use with 100LL use (though
there were periods where our FBO didn't have auto gas), changed plugs every
50-75 hours, ran our engine at 5500 rpm in cruise and flew several times
every week. As for TCP usage, I think no more 1.5 quarts of TCP went through
our engine in 1000 hours.
Now, perhaps if another engine had it's oil changed at every 100 hours, used
only 100LL, never used TCP, changed plugs every 100+ hours, cruised at 5000
rpm and only flew once a month, it might be another picture entirely.
Anyway, my point to Eric in the previous response was not to disregard the
use of TCP, but rather not to panic about occasionally using 100LL without
it.
Best Regards,
Cliff
ps, I'm gonna order a bottle of your TCP for our Lycoming ;-)
>
> Cliff,
> Before you ask... Yes lead was the cause on the factory aircraft.
It was
> determined by pulling the valves and you could see it on the cylinders.
It
> occurred during the phase that one could not get TCP and the aircraft were
> being run without it. Never had an issue with the Series 6 or the Lite
> when operating with the TCP and didn't have any issues on the 7 or the
Sport
> prior when using the TCP. Times on the engines varied between 250 hours
and
> 500 hours. Problems seem to occur in the 100 to 200 time range without
the
> TCP.
>
> Believe it or not Continental and Lycoming have suggested its use for a
long
> time. TCP is not new to the industry.
>
> Blue Skies
> John & Debra McBean
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clifford
Begnaud
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
> <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
> Lowell,
> Interesting report! How about putting it in context by providing some
> background, i.e., how many hours on engine, how many hours using 100LL,
how
> many of those with TCP etc. Also, was it actually verified that lead was
the
> cause? If so, how?
> Thanks,
> Cliff
>
> >
> > I think I should report an incident in the trip recently to Oshkosh. We
> > stopped in Afton Wyoming for fuel and lodging. When the engine cooled a
> > bit, I did a couple of rotations of the prop and as one of the guys
later
> > commented, It was as I was turning a turbine. I had at least four stuck
> > valves. Eric Tucker attributed it to 100LL and the lead. We got some
ATF
> > put it all into one tank and then the group flew over Afton and environs
> > that evening for a little recreation that evening. All was fine from
then
> > on.
> >
> > Mark another in our group had this issue a couple of years ago on one of
> our
> > Idaho trips.
> >
> > Lowell
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Ceashman@aol.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Clifford.
> > >
> > > Thanks for writing about your experiences of using 100 LL in the Rotax
> 912
> > > UL.
> > > I kinda realize there are a lot of folks using this fuel.
> > > But you know what it's like, lots of different stories like the valves
> > > crudding up too soon and the plugs prematurely fouling. To the
> fiberglass
> > fuel tank
> > > being perforated (It makes me feel like standing on the edge of a
rocky
> > cliff
> > > top somewhere in Main, belching, and looking for the "purple pill"
> Nexium)
> > > Anyway, I am ordering a bottle of TCP from John. It makes me feel a
lot
> > more
> > > comfortable. I have only 75 hours on my motor. When I get a couple of
> > hundred
> > > more, I will also have gained more confidence and not be as influenced
> > with
> > > all the frightening gossip that comes from the media...no more
Nexium!!
> > >
> > > Again, Thank you Clifford for a candid view of reality.
> > > Cheers. Eric. Classic IV, Atlanta
> > >
> > > e-mail; ceashman@aol.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Kitfox Kit Wanted |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Hi List,
I am suffering with "lack of a Kitfox to fly" syndrome and am looking for an unfinished
Series 5, 6 or 7 (1550 gross) kit which has not been taken past the
covering stage on the fuse. Prefer kit without FWF items unless it is for the
Lycoming install.
Will pay finder's fee (a ride in a "Superfox") plus dinner!
"please help"
Vic
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I'm installing a new header tank shortly and I'd like to also install a low
fuel indicator while I'm at it. Couple questions for those who've been
there.
Who can supply a complete kit? Skystar doesn't seem to be responding
very well these days.
I understand that I can go with either Reed Switch or Optical type.
Which is better?
If I decide to build my own unit, can anybody give me a parts list of
the items I would need?
Does anybody have a low fuel indicator that they've decided not to use?
Email me offlist if you have one for sale.
I've got 268 hours on my S5 and I've had no fuel flow problems. Are
these things really worth the bother?
Thanks for any help.
Darrel
Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Got it. Full throttle is about 5300 rpm for me with
my current pitch (which gives a good blend of T/O vs
cruise). I find my plane likes 5000 for cruise
reducing to around 4800 when in turbulent air. I
rarely run over 5K. Sounds like I'm well within the
RPM limits anyway!
Thanks,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
<lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
>Rotax recommends max continuous cruise 5500 rpm. I
have hear this several
>times at Rotax seminars - SS fly-in and other places.
>
>Lowell
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier"
<FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> Hey Kirk,
>>
>> You cruise at 5400rpm? For some reason I was
>> thinking normal cruise for the 912UL was 5000 with
>> only short periods above 5300. Point me in the
right
>> direction on the info if I'm mistaken!
>>
>> TIA,
>>
>> Ted
>>
>>
>> --- Original Message ---
>> From: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
>>
>> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk
Martenson"
>> <kirk@mninter.net>
>> >
>> >The engine has a slight roughness to it that can
be
>> heard mostly at cruise
>> >(5400) rpm. We had some hot days over a month
ago,
>> about 92 degrees F.
>> >During those hot days I was trying to duplicate
the
>> symptoms, so I climbed
>> >out at a steep angle, and the engine sounded like
>> one of the ignition
>> >systems was shut off. I then chocked the wheels
on
>> the ground, and ran the
>> >engine up to full rpm. The same thing happened,
it
>> sounded like one of the
>> >ignition switches was shut off.
>> >
>> >Now the weather has been cooler, and I cannot get
>> the engine to cut out at
>> >full rpm like it had, but it still has that slight
>> roughness to it at all
>> >rpms, but most notably at cruise power.
>> >
>> >
>> >Kirk
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>> >To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
>> >
>> >
>> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
>> ><jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>> >>
>> >> Kirk
>> >>
>> >> You are within the margin of error for the coil
>> Resistance. The
>> >> fluctuationis most likely the connections or the
>> leads. If the coils are
>> >> not faulted to ground then the restistance value
>> is ok.
>> >>
>> >> What are the symptoms?
>> >>
>> >> Jim Shumaker
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
>> >> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> >> Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 UL
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk
>> Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello:
>> >> >
>> >> > To all those electrically minded people out
>> there. I found a bad coil
>> >on
>> >> my Rotax 912 UL. By bad I mean, I used the
>> ohmmeter and got 5.93k ohms
>> >from
>> >> the one coil. The spec says it should be 6.1 to
>> 6.7k ohms. I set the
>> >coil
>> >> on a bench and heated it with a heat gun. I
then
>> tested it and got 6.1k
>> >> ohms to 6.3k ohms but it fluctuates back and
>> forth. Is the coil toast?
>> >> >
>> >> > Kirk Martenson
>> >> > Classic IV
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >_-
>>
======================================================
>> ==================
>> Contributions
>> any other
>> Forums.
>> >_-
>>
======================================================
>> ==================
>> >_-
>>
======================================================
>> ==================
>> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
>> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
>> http://www.matronics.com/archives
>> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>> list
>> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>> >_-
>>
======================================================
>> ==================
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>_-
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==================
Contributions
any other
Forums.
>_-
======================================================
==================
>_-
======================================================
==================
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>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Low fuel alarm |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
If you can put a 1/2" NPT fitting toward the top of
your tank the simplest is the float switch. The 15-
650-AC from Compac Engineering is available from
Durable Controls at (800) 365-0033 for $36.
http://www.durablecontrols.com. All you need is a
12v lamp to complete the system. The Accipter sensor
used that switch in an external bottle. I pulled my
switch out and installed it in the tank. I think I
still have the aluminum bottle laying around. It
mounts in the header return line.
I've had one in my Kitfox header for years and it
works well. I also put one in my Nieuport tank.
It's pretty fool-proof.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Low fuel alarm
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
<morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
>I'm installing a new header tank shortly and I'd
like to also install a low
>fuel indicator while I'm at it. Couple questions
for those who've been
>there.
>
> Who can supply a complete kit? Skystar doesn't
seem to be responding
>very well these days.
>
> I understand that I can go with either Reed
Switch or Optical type.
>Which is better?
>
> If I decide to build my own unit, can anybody
give me a parts list of
>the items I would need?
>
> Does anybody have a low fuel indicator that
they've decided not to use?
>Email me offlist if you have one for sale.
>
> I've got 268 hours on my S5 and I've had no fuel
flow problems. Are
>these things really worth the bother?
>
>Thanks for any help.
>Darrel
>
>
>_-
======================================================
==================
Contributions
any other
Forums.
>_-
======================================================
==================
>_-
======================================================
==================
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http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list
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>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Electric Prop Failure |
03:47:37 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxjunky" <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
John
I thought I noticed a vibration too that was not there before..but you know
how that kind of thing goes. You are never sure if it is something knew or
something that was there the previous season, and you just forgot about it.
Something this experience has taught me is that NDT testing is very cheap.
Doing the gearbox on my 912S only cost $ 50. I bet I could have had the
prop off, and the cuffs NDT'ed and it back together in a couple of
days..with most of that being the transportation to and from the testing
facility. If you have any concerns I would say go that route.
From what I am hearing, the NSI product has a pretty good track record. It
could be the combination of the 912S (high compression and vibration during
start and shut down) and that prop that is the problem. Then again, since I
was not the original owner I do not know everything the prop has been
through. You never know if everything that should be in the log book is
actually there.
Have a look at the lab report from the lab that documented the prop right
after I removed it from the plane. I put it up on my web site. There was
something else that turned up that raises some questions. One of the
bearing races on the end of the prop was dimpled. A punch was used to make
indentations to hold the bearing in place. This was not on the blade that
failed, and I doubt it had any part in the problem, but it makes you
wonder. NSI says they would never had done that. The previous owner said
he would never had done that since the product was almost new and he had no
problems with it. I know I did not do it. It would be interesting to see
if anyone else observes that kind of thing on their unit.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Low fuel alarm |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Mark Schindler <mtschindler@yahoo.com>
Talk to Steve Winder at Airdale ( I seem to say that a lot) he is buying one in
England and brings it back - it an optical sensor that installs in the header
tank and has a light on the dash - I'm installing it on mine Avid Plus.
Mark
Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
I'm installing a new header tank shortly and I'd like to also install a low
fuel indicator while I'm at it. Couple questions for those who've been
there.
Who can supply a complete kit? Skystar doesn't seem to be responding
very well these days.
I understand that I can go with either Reed Switch or Optical type.
Which is better?
If I decide to build my own unit, can anybody give me a parts list of
the items I would need?
Does anybody have a low fuel indicator that they've decided not to use?
Email me offlist if you have one for sale.
I've got 268 hours on my S5 and I've had no fuel flow problems. Are
these things really worth the bother?
Thanks for any help.
Darrel
---------------------------------
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" <kerryskyring@hotmail.com>
To Paul, Stu Torgeir and others who have replied on this topic thank you
very much.
Based on your replies I think we will be able to convince our inspector that
the plans laid out in the
Kitfox manual are adequate and we can route the fuel return line to the
header tank and not expect problems. The fact that we have the Facet pump
under the seat and all lines firewall forward fire-hosed should guarantee a
safe system. It was really interesting to learn that the return line is as
much about getting both carbs primed for smooth starting as it is for vapour
control. The S5 also has that baffle protecting the carbs from exhaust heat
which should mean no chance of vapourisation.
As an aside, we bumped into the technical teacher who taught our inspector
the other day and he agreed that it was fine to route back to the header
tank rather than the wing tanks. So looks as though we are on the way.
We are getting instruments and avionics wired up, waiting on spinner, facet
filter and a few fuel fittings. Have to do final assembly and paint a few
bits but we are getting very close. That may mean another 6 months but the
end is in sight. The plane looks good and I will post a few pics when it is
rolled out. The list continues to inspire and inform.
Kerry
>
>
>--
>Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: TCP, 912, avgas |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
I know where you were going Cliff... I absolutely agree.... I wouldn't
ground my aircraft if I didn't have the TCP to use. And even using it I
still change the oil every 25-30 hours.. I am running a test on the plugs
right now. Currently at 80 hours in the set. I pull them at the oil change
and review. I think I'll be changing the plugs every fourth oil change.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clifford Begnaud
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
John,
Here's what I'm driving at.... no doubt that TCP should be used, but it may
be that other factors can contribute to lead problems or help alleviate
them. For example, we changed our oil every 25-30 hours (25 most of the
time) used high quality oil, often mixed auto gas use with 100LL use (though
there were periods where our FBO didn't have auto gas), changed plugs every
50-75 hours, ran our engine at 5500 rpm in cruise and flew several times
every week. As for TCP usage, I think no more 1.5 quarts of TCP went through
our engine in 1000 hours.
Now, perhaps if another engine had it's oil changed at every 100 hours, used
only 100LL, never used TCP, changed plugs every 100+ hours, cruised at 5000
rpm and only flew once a month, it might be another picture entirely.
Anyway, my point to Eric in the previous response was not to disregard the
use of TCP, but rather not to panic about occasionally using 100LL without
it.
Best Regards,
Cliff
ps, I'm gonna order a bottle of your TCP for our Lycoming ;-)
>
> Cliff,
> Before you ask... Yes lead was the cause on the factory aircraft.
It was
> determined by pulling the valves and you could see it on the cylinders.
It
> occurred during the phase that one could not get TCP and the aircraft were
> being run without it. Never had an issue with the Series 6 or the Lite
> when operating with the TCP and didn't have any issues on the 7 or the
Sport
> prior when using the TCP. Times on the engines varied between 250 hours
and
> 500 hours. Problems seem to occur in the 100 to 200 time range without
the
> TCP.
>
> Believe it or not Continental and Lycoming have suggested its use for a
long
> time. TCP is not new to the industry.
>
> Blue Skies
> John & Debra McBean
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clifford
Begnaud
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
> <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
> Lowell,
> Interesting report! How about putting it in context by providing some
> background, i.e., how many hours on engine, how many hours using 100LL,
how
> many of those with TCP etc. Also, was it actually verified that lead was
the
> cause? If so, how?
> Thanks,
> Cliff
>
> >
> > I think I should report an incident in the trip recently to Oshkosh. We
> > stopped in Afton Wyoming for fuel and lodging. When the engine cooled a
> > bit, I did a couple of rotations of the prop and as one of the guys
later
> > commented, It was as I was turning a turbine. I had at least four stuck
> > valves. Eric Tucker attributed it to 100LL and the lead. We got some
ATF
> > put it all into one tank and then the group flew over Afton and environs
> > that evening for a little recreation that evening. All was fine from
then
> > on.
> >
> > Mark another in our group had this issue a couple of years ago on one of
> our
> > Idaho trips.
> >
> > Lowell
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Ceashman@aol.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Clifford.
> > >
> > > Thanks for writing about your experiences of using 100 LL in the Rotax
> 912
> > > UL.
> > > I kinda realize there are a lot of folks using this fuel.
> > > But you know what it's like, lots of different stories like the valves
> > > crudding up too soon and the plugs prematurely fouling. To the
> fiberglass
> > fuel tank
> > > being perforated (It makes me feel like standing on the edge of a
rocky
> > cliff
> > > top somewhere in Main, belching, and looking for the "purple pill"
> Nexium)
> > > Anyway, I am ordering a bottle of TCP from John. It makes me feel a
lot
> > more
> > > comfortable. I have only 75 hours on my motor. When I get a couple of
> > hundred
> > > more, I will also have gained more confidence and not be as influenced
> > with
> > > all the frightening gossip that comes from the media...no more
Nexium!!
> > >
> > > Again, Thank you Clifford for a candid view of reality.
> > > Cheers. Eric. Classic IV, Atlanta
> > >
> > > e-mail; ceashman@aol.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: TCP, 912, avgas |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
I can give a little info here. The engine had about 605 hours at the stuck
valve point. I run mogas unless I am on an extended x-country. We fueled
at Elko and interestingly enough, I borrowed at that time some of the newer
formulated TCP - I forgot mine. It was after this fuel load that the valves
stuck. I have never used TCP previously as the stuff was not recommended to
be carried in the airplane.
Whether the TCP in this load freed up some lead accumulation or whether it
was mere coincidence, I don't know. It was interesting the Eric said the
ATF would not do "anything".
Whether he meant it would not help - or hurt. I don't know. The ATF was
suggested by one of the group who makes his living working on engines - not
airplane engines. We were looking for Marvel Mystery Oil, but couldn't find
it at the time. This is what Mark used in Idaho. He has had no further
problems, nor have I in the final 40 hours of flight to and from OSH.
Incidentally for information. I started the engine at Afton by being
patient. Eventually the tapping of the lifters freed the valves and after
start-up it ran fine. the hour touring Afton was a little tense, but
uneventful.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
> Lowell,
> Interesting report! How about putting it in context by providing some
> background, i.e., how many hours on engine, how many hours using 100LL,
how
> many of those with TCP etc. Also, was it actually verified that lead was
the
> cause? If so, how?
> Thanks,
> Cliff
>
> >
> > I think I should report an incident in the trip recently to Oshkosh. We
> > stopped in Afton Wyoming for fuel and lodging. When the engine cooled a
> > bit, I did a couple of rotations of the prop and as one of the guys
later
> > commented, It was as I was turning a turbine. I had at least four stuck
> > valves. Eric Tucker attributed it to 100LL and the lead. We got some
ATF
> > put it all into one tank and then the group flew over Afton and environs
> > that evening for a little recreation that evening. All was fine from
then
> > on.
> >
> > Mark another in our group had this issue a couple of years ago on one of
> our
> > Idaho trips.
> >
> > Lowell
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Ceashman@aol.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Clifford.
> > >
> > > Thanks for writing about your experiences of using 100 LL in the Rotax
> 912
> > > UL.
> > > I kinda realize there are a lot of folks using this fuel.
> > > But you know what it's like, lots of different stories like the valves
> > > crudding up too soon and the plugs prematurely fouling. To the
> fiberglass
> > fuel tank
> > > being perforated (It makes me feel like standing on the edge of a
rocky
> > cliff
> > > top somewhere in Main, belching, and looking for the "purple pill"
> Nexium)
> > > Anyway, I am ordering a bottle of TCP from John. It makes me feel a
lot
> > more
> > > comfortable. I have only 75 hours on my motor. When I get a couple of
> > hundred
> > > more, I will also have gained more confidence and not be as influenced
> > with
> > > all the frightening gossip that comes from the media...no more
Nexium!!
> > >
> > > Again, Thank you Clifford for a candid view of reality.
> > > Cheers. Eric. Classic IV, Atlanta
> > >
> > > e-mail; ceashman@aol.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: TCP, 912, avgas |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Don't think anything works that fast. I use both TCP, now the new stuff, and
Marvel. If the valves stuck it was because they were tight to begin with and
I suspect EGTs got a bit high. If you were not using the TCP they may have
loaded up over time, but I thinks that doubtful. Do you recall what the EGTs
were.
Rick N6
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
I can give a little info here. The engine had about 605 hours at the stuck
valve point. I run mogas unless I am on an extended x-country. We fueled
at Elko and interestingly enough, I borrowed at that time some of the newer
formulated TCP - I forgot mine. It was after this fuel load that the valves
stuck. I have never used TCP previously as the stuff was not recommended to
be carried in the airplane.
Whether the TCP in this load freed up some lead accumulation or whether it
was mere coincidence, I don't know. It was interesting the Eric said the
ATF would not do "anything".
Whether he meant it would not help - or hurt. I don't know. The ATF was
suggested by one of the group who makes his living working on engines - not
airplane engines. We were looking for Marvel Mystery Oil, but couldn't find
it at the time. This is what Mark used in Idaho. He has had no further
problems, nor have I in the final 40 hours of flight to and from OSH.
Incidentally for information. I started the engine at Afton by being
patient. Eventually the tapping of the lifters freed the valves and after
start-up it ran fine. the hour touring Afton was a little tense, but
uneventful.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud"
<shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
>
> Lowell,
> Interesting report! How about putting it in context by providing some
> background, i.e., how many hours on engine, how many hours using 100LL,
how
> many of those with TCP etc. Also, was it actually verified that lead was
the
> cause? If so, how?
> Thanks,
> Cliff
>
> >
> > I think I should report an incident in the trip recently to Oshkosh. We
> > stopped in Afton Wyoming for fuel and lodging. When the engine cooled a
> > bit, I did a couple of rotations of the prop and as one of the guys
later
> > commented, It was as I was turning a turbine. I had at least four stuck
> > valves. Eric Tucker attributed it to 100LL and the lead. We got some
ATF
> > put it all into one tank and then the group flew over Afton and environs
> > that evening for a little recreation that evening. All was fine from
then
> > on.
> >
> > Mark another in our group had this issue a couple of years ago on one of
> our
> > Idaho trips.
> >
> > Lowell
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Ceashman@aol.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Clifford.
> > >
> > > Thanks for writing about your experiences of using 100 LL in the Rotax
> 912
> > > UL.
> > > I kinda realize there are a lot of folks using this fuel.
> > > But you know what it's like, lots of different stories like the valves
> > > crudding up too soon and the plugs prematurely fouling. To the
> fiberglass
> > fuel tank
> > > being perforated (It makes me feel like standing on the edge of a
rocky
> > cliff
> > > top somewhere in Main, belching, and looking for the "purple pill"
> Nexium)
> > > Anyway, I am ordering a bottle of TCP from John. It makes me feel a
lot
> > more
> > > comfortable. I have only 75 hours on my motor. When I get a couple of
> > hundred
> > > more, I will also have gained more confidence and not be as influenced
> > with
> > > all the frightening gossip that comes from the media...no more
Nexium!!
> > >
> > > Again, Thank you Clifford for a candid view of reality.
> > > Cheers. Eric. Classic IV, Atlanta
> > >
> > > e-mail; ceashman@aol.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 28
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
I have carried TCP on my Fox for five years. Does that stuff ever go bad? Jeff
Classic IV
Jeffrey Puls
pulsair@mindspring.com
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
Message 29
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I'm a new member of this group, trying to get all the info I can while
making up my mind to buy a new Classic IV. I'm in Grass Lake, MI.,
(Jackson area) and was wondering if there are any Kitfox IV owners in
this area. I've located one in the Benton Harbor, MI area, and am
interested in seeing more planes and talking to owners/builders. I'll
travel (by land) to locations in this state, and Ohio, Illinois,
Indiana, if necessary. I'm an old fart, just learning to fly after
spending too much time with radio control planes and wanting to get "up
there", and now finally going for it. My thoughts at this point are to
get the kit with the quick-build options, and delay the engine choice
until later in the building process. I would eventually like to put the
plane on floats, so max horsepower is probably the way to go. Any
advice out there for an old newbie?
Lynn Matteson
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: new member here |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple <fredshiple@sbcglobal.net>
Lynn,
I've been flying a Series 6 in Toledo for several months and purchased a set of
Czech floats at Oshkosh. Contact me off line if you want to get together.
Fred
do not archive
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
I'm a new member of this group, trying to get all the info I can while
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Low fuel alarm |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Thanks Ted. I appreciate the input. I checked out the site below and that
switch looks like it would do the job nicely. Some people use the optical
sensor which would probably do fine also, but I've read where some had
trouble keeping the ambient light from setting it off. Then again, it would
appear an advantage is that there are no moving parts. Does anybody know if
there's a failure possiblity with the optical type? Then again, if it quits
working, what's the harm?
Thanks,
Darrel
S5
> If you can put a 1/2" NPT fitting toward the top of
> your tank the simplest is the float switch. The 15-
> 650-AC from Compac Engineering is available from
> Durable Controls at (800) 365-0033 for $36.
> http://www.durablecontrols.com. All you need is a
> 12v lamp to complete the system. The Accipter sensor
> used that switch in an external bottle. I pulled my
> switch out and installed it in the tank. I think I
> still have the aluminum bottle laying around. It
> mounts in the header return line.
>
> I've had one in my Kitfox header for years and it
> works well. I also put one in my Nieuport tank.
> It's pretty fool-proof.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ted
> >
> >I'm installing a new header tank shortly and I'd
> like to also install a low
> >fuel indicator while I'm at it. Couple questions
> for those who've been
> >there.
> >
> > Who can supply a complete kit? Skystar doesn't
> seem to be responding
> >very well these days.
> >
> > I understand that I can go with either Reed
> Switch or Optical type.
> >Which is better?
> >
> > If I decide to build my own unit, can anybody
> give me a parts list of
> >the items I would need?
> >
> > Does anybody have a low fuel indicator that
> they've decided not to use?
> >Email me offlist if you have one for sale.
> >
> > I've got 268 hours on my S5 and I've had no fuel
> flow problems. Are
> >these things really worth the bother?
> >
> >Thanks for any help.
> >Darrel
> >
> >
Message 32
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Lynn,
Welcome to the group! You have come to the right place for advice, and I am
sure you will get plenty.
From your post, you mentioned that you want to "get up there." Are you sure
you want to build? Even with quick build everything, it will take you a year
or more to build your plane. Perhaps less if you are an experienced builder.
Building is great, but only if you enjoy the building process, and can keep
at it, day after day. Have you considered buying a used KF-IV? There are
lots on the market, and you usually can get one at the same cost the builder
put into it, not counting his time. Putting it on floats would be a fun
project.
So ask yourself, do you visualize yourself enjoying going into the garage
everyday, and creating something that you built with your own hands, or do
you visualize yourself just getting in, turning the key and flying?
Keep asking questions,
Don Pearsall
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: new member here |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Welcome Lynn. I'm sure you'll get lots of information to help you with your
decision.
Darrel
S5 in NE Michigan (Mikado)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: new member here
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I'm a new member of this group, trying to get all the info I can while
> making up my mind to buy a new Classic IV. I'm in Grass Lake, MI.,
> (Jackson area) and was wondering if there are any Kitfox IV owners in
> this area. I've located one in the Benton Harbor, MI area, and am
> interested in seeing more planes and talking to owners/builders. I'll
> travel (by land) to locations in this state, and Ohio, Illinois,
> Indiana, if necessary. I'm an old fart, just learning to fly after
> spending too much time with radio control planes and wanting to get "up
> there", and now finally going for it. My thoughts at this point are to
> get the kit with the quick-build options, and delay the engine choice
> until later in the building process. I would eventually like to put the
> plane on floats, so max horsepower is probably the way to go. Any
> advice out there for an old newbie?
>
> Lynn Matteson
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: new member here |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Welcome to the group Lynn. Hope you enjoy the building process as much as I did.
Like you L am a little long in the tooth and also a late starter.
Dee Young
Model II N345DY
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Lynn Matteson
Subject: Kitfox-List: new member here
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I'm a new member of this group, trying to get all the info I can while
making up my mind to buy a new Classic IV. I'm in Grass Lake, MI.,
(Jackson area) and was wondering if there are any Kitfox IV owners in
this area. I've located one in the Benton Harbor, MI area, and am
interested in seeing more planes and talking to owners/builders. I'll
travel (by land) to locations in this state, and Ohio, Illinois,
Indiana, if necessary. I'm an old fart, just learning to fly after
spending too much time with radio control planes and wanting to get "up
there", and now finally going for it. My thoughts at this point are to
get the kit with the quick-build options, and delay the engine choice
until later in the building process. I would eventually like to put the
plane on floats, so max horsepower is probably the way to go. Any
advice out there for an old newbie?
Lynn Matteson
Message 35
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Welcome to the group Lynn.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Subject: Kitfox-List: new member here
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I'm a new member of this group, trying to get all the info I can while
making up my mind to buy a new Classic IV. I'm in Grass Lake, MI.,
(Jackson area) and was wondering if there are any Kitfox IV owners in
this area. I've located one in the Benton Harbor, MI area, and am
interested in seeing more planes and talking to owners/builders. I'll
travel (by land) to locations in this state, and Ohio, Illinois,
Indiana, if necessary. I'm an old fart, just learning to fly after
spending too much time with radio control planes and wanting to get "up
there", and now finally going for it. My thoughts at this point are to
get the kit with the quick-build options, and delay the engine choice
until later in the building process. I would eventually like to put the
plane on floats, so max horsepower is probably the way to go. Any
advice out there for an old newbie?
Lynn Matteson
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: new member here |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
In response to "do I want to build" versus just "getting up there", I'd
say that I want to build more. I've been a builder all my life, from
race cars (163mph Hemi-powered, blown, fuel injected T-bucket roadster)
to model planes, furniture, to houses and pole barns, etc., and I find
the building fun when it leads to a goal. I have in construction a 96"
wingspan Stinson Reliant that I have begun covering in Stits Lite
fabric (Poly-Fiber). This is an RC plane, of course. In all, I've
probably built 10 RC planes from kits. So I'm experienced in building,
but not full-size planes. I am presently flying a 110" gas-engined RC
plane, the Sig Rascal 110.
It occurred to me one day that I was getting bored with watching the
plane go through it's paces, and I wanted something more out of the
airplane hobby, and it seemed like building and flying a real plane was
the next logical step. That, and searching for lost planes, my own and
others, led me to make this decision. I'm retired, don't have any
"honey" to create any "honey-do's" for me, so I can pretty much spend
all my time building as long as the pension and Soc. Security hold out.
: )
Lynn
do not archive
On Thursday, August 19, 2004, at 09:53 PM, Don Pearsall wrote:
>
> From your post, you mentioned that you want to "get up there." Are you
> sure
> you want to build? Even with quick build everything, it will take you
> a year
> or more to build your plane. Perhaps less if you are an experienced
> builder.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Electric Prop Failure |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Excellent info Gary. Top notch. Glad you are here to
give us the cold, hard facts.
One thing I am having trouble picking out from the
photos is the relation of the failure origion to the
blade orientation. I suspect it is about in line with
the prop rotation plane on the leading edge side at
normal pitch. Is that correct? Just a theory.
Leading edge alignment is from engine power and
startup? Trailing edge is from shutdown? That would
assume no significant flaw that overrides the engine
stresses and that the engine stresses are greater than
flight stresses. Just me guessing though.
Again I like the strength of those Warp blades. Would
make a good sword. Bronze age. Iron age. Carbon
age?
The hub appears to have lost 50% of its strength
before it let go in shear. It might have been
impossible to detect on preflight, so your NDT might
have been the only way to know.
For some reason the metal grain size surprises me.
I checked my blades for movement tonight and found
them to have none at all by feel other than the GB
output shaft clicking. Ran into them 3 more times
working on my scoop. :-( Like hitting a flat fishing
pole. Better than metal.
Those punch marks bother me too. Never saw anything
done that way. Someone seems to have forced the
bearing on with the nearest tool at hand.... Not
wood. Not socket. Not a pipe, but a punch?
Not pointing fingers allows us to pass on needed info
here, but there is more than one problem with this
prop that we need to watch for.
Having just rebuilt my prop, I did not see any of the
questionable items you found. Getting old and losing
your eyesight has its advantages, I suppose.
Waiting for NSI's report.... Sorry about Lance's
medical problems. Might cause a delay.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com> wrote:
> John
>
> I thought I noticed a vibration too that was not
> there before..but you know how that kind of thing
> goes.
> ...............
> Something this experience has taught me is that NDT
> testing is very cheap.
> ...............
> From what I am hearing, the NSI product has a pretty
> good track record. It could be the combination of
> the 912S (high compression and vibration during
> start and shut down) and that prop that is the
> problem. Then again, since I was not the original
> owner I do not know everything the prop has been
> through. You never know if everything that should
> be in the log book is actually there.
> .............
> Have a look at the lab report from the lab that
> documented the prop right after I removed it from
> the plane. I put it up on my web site. There was
> something else that turned up that raises some
> questions. One of the bearing races on the end of
> the prop was dimpled. A punch was used to make
> indentations to hold the bearing in place.
>
> Gary Walsh
> C-GOOT
> www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
_______________________________
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Low fuel alarm |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Darrel,
Remember Tom Anderson flamed out on descent with 4
gallons of fuel on board because he unported the wing
tanks and drained the header. A low fuel light would
have warned him. Now he is rebuilding his plane. It
also works for swelled hoses, Kream plugged tank
screens, and just plain running out of gas.
I have both the optical and float sensors. I had some
false indications with the optical and painted the
tank to stop them. Then I heard that someone had
their sensor melt in the fuel additives and it came
out in strings. And with older fuel sight gauges
fogging over, I thought the sensor might lose its
ability to "see" the fuel level over time too. So I
pulled mine out and went to the float switch.
I think ACS has one at a good price too.
My optical is available, but even used it cost more
than the float switch cost new. They are pretty
cheap. You have to want the optical more, even if I
give you a really good deal.
Guess I am saying I like the float better for me and
thus, for you, but it is your preference. I could
have sent it with the tank if I knew. ;-) {Got your
check. Thanks.}
Mine is wired easy. Fuse, 12 volt LED, float, ground.
A second ground thru a test switch checks the
circuit, but not the float. I check that by draining
the tank on annuals.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
> I'm installing a new header tank shortly and I'd
> like to also install a low fuel indicator while I'm
> at it. Couple questions for those who've been
> there.
>
> Who can supply a complete kit? Skystar doesn't
> seem to be responding very well these days.
>
> I understand that I can go with either Reed
> Switch or Optical type. Which is better?
>
> If I decide to build my own unit, can anybody
> give me a parts list of the items I would need?
>
> Does anybody have a low fuel indicator that
> they've decided not to use?
> Email me offlist if you have one for sale.
>
> I've got 268 hours on my S5 and I've had no fuel
> flow problems. Are these things really worth the
> bother?
>
> Thanks for any help.
> Darrel
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