---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/20/04: 52 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:03 AM - Re: new member here (kurt schrader) 2. 03:24 AM - Re: Low fuel alarm (Fox5flyer) 3. 05:52 AM - Re: new member here (Lynn Matteson) 4. 05:55 AM - Re: new member here (Ray Kurian) 5. 05:58 AM - Re: new member here (Howard Firm) 6. 06:05 AM - Re: new member here (Roger McConnell) 7. 06:59 AM - Re: Re: TCP, 912, avgas (Lowell Fitt) 8. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: TCP, 912, avgas (Lowell Fitt) 9. 07:10 AM - Re: new member here (Noel & Yoshie Simmons) 10. 07:12 AM - Sport Pilot Transition Schedule (Steve Cooper) 11. 07:42 AM - Re: Low fuel alarm (Lowell Fitt) 12. 08:13 AM - Re: Low fuel alarm (Fox5flyer) 13. 08:48 AM - Re: Tail Wheel Chatter-- Attention: Peter Graichen (John E. King) 14. 09:49 AM - Please Help w/ Tail Wheel recommendation. (Harris, Robert) 15. 10:01 AM - FW: Please Help w/ Tail Wheel recommendation. (Harris, Robert) 16. 10:01 AM - Re: Electric Prop Failure (kurt schrader) 17. 10:12 AM - Re: Vic C. - KF V 1550 project for sale (kurt schrader) 18. 10:16 AM - Re: Low fuel alarm (flier) 19. 10:20 AM - Re: Electric Prop Failure (kitfoxjunky) 20. 10:38 AM - Re: Low fuel alarm (flier) 21. 10:38 AM - Re: Please Help w/ Tail Wheel recommendation. (Clifford Begnaud) 22. 10:41 AM - Tension vs. compression WAS: Tail Wheel Chatte (Michel Verheughe) 23. 10:53 AM - With the Maule?Re: Please Help w/ Tail Wheel (Harris, Robert) 24. 11:00 AM - Kitfox for sale (VFT@aol.com) 25. 11:01 AM - Re: Vic C. - KF V 1550 project for sale (Vic Jacko) 26. 12:07 PM - Re: Tail Wheel recommendation. (Michel Verheughe) 27. 12:18 PM - Re: With the Maule?Re: Please Help w/ Tail Wheel recomme ndation. (Clifford Begnaud) 28. 01:24 PM - Tail Wheel recommendation (Harris, Robert) 29. 01:39 PM - Re: Vic C. - KF V 1550 project for sale (Howard Firm) 30. 02:12 PM - No records Annual needed? (Harris, Robert) 31. 02:32 PM - Re: No records Annual needed? (Harris, Robert) 32. 02:32 PM - Re: No records Annual needed? (Howard Firm) 33. 02:42 PM - Re: No records Annual needed? (Dee Young) 34. 02:50 PM - Can anybody can help Howard? (Harris, Robert) 35. 02:59 PM - Re: Tension vs. compression WAS: Tail Wheel Chatte (John E. King) 36. 03:17 PM - denied three times now (Harris, Robert) 37. 03:24 PM - Re: No records Annual needed? () 38. 03:46 PM - Spinner help cooling? (Randy Daughenbaugh) 39. 03:58 PM - Re: No records Annual needed? (Fred Shiple) 40. 04:00 PM - Re: No records Annual needed? (Harris, Robert) 41. 04:16 PM - Re: Spinner help cooling? () 42. 04:24 PM - Re: No records Annual needed? () 43. 04:36 PM - Re: Tension vs. compression WAS: Tail Wheel Chatte (Bruce Harrington) 44. 05:02 PM - Re: No records Annual needed? (Howard Firm) 45. 05:09 PM - Terra by Trimble Documentation? (Steve Cooper) 46. 06:27 PM - Re: Electric Prop Failure (Rick) 47. 06:34 PM - Re: No records Annual needed(pics) (Fred Shiple) 48. 07:16 PM - Re: No records Annual needed? (Bob Unternaehrer) 49. 10:43 PM - Re: Electric Prop Failure (Jim Crowder) 50. 11:09 PM - Re: No records Annual needed? (kurt schrader) 51. 11:27 PM - Re: Tension vs. compression WAS: Tail Wheel Chatte (kurt schrader) 52. 11:27 PM - Re: Tension vs. compression WAS: Tail Wheel Chatte (kurt schrader) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:14 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member here --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Welcome aboard! The 1:1 scale planes just have more surface area to fidget over when going for details. :-) The quick built will save you a lot of time building jigs and things. Good idea. There is still plenty to fuss over. I agree that there a a good number of really nice planes out there, if you just want one already built. But then it is a better choice if you are an A&P and will work on it yourself. I'll throw out the first opinion on engines and then you should get a flurry of other opinions to pick from. The Rotax 100 hp 912 will do nicely on floats. The turbo Rotax 114 is good if you are going to high density altitudes, but expensive. The Jabaru 3300 would be a good choice too. Good, smooth power for the price, but a little heavier and it takes a smaller prop, which gives it a little performance hit. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Lynn Matteson wrote: > In response to "do I want to build" versus just > "getting up there", I'd say that I want to build > more. I've been a builder all my life,...... > > Lynn __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:30 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low fuel alarm --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Thanks much Kurt. You always make good sense. Darrel Kurt said: > Remember Tom Anderson flamed out on descent with 4 > gallons of fuel on board because he unported the wing > tanks and drained the header. A low fuel light would > have warned him. Now he is rebuilding his plane. It > also works for swelled hoses, Kream plugged tank > screens, and just plain running out of gas. > > I have both the optical and float sensors. I had some > false indications with the optical and painted the > tank to stop them. Then I heard that someone had > their sensor melt in the fuel additives and it came > out in strings. And with older fuel sight gauges > fogging over, I thought the sensor might lose its > ability to "see" the fuel level over time too. So I > pulled mine out and went to the float switch. > > I think ACS has one at a good price too. > > My optical is available, but even used it cost more > than the float switch cost new. They are pretty > cheap. You have to want the optical more, even if I > give you a really good deal. > > Guess I am saying I like the float better for me and > thus, for you, but it is your preference. I could > have sent it with the tank if I knew. ;-) {Got your > check. Thanks.} > > Mine is wired easy. Fuse, 12 volt LED, float, ground. > A second ground thru a test switch checks the > circuit, but not the float. I check that by draining > the tank on annuals. > > Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo > > --- Fox5flyer wrote: > > > I'm installing a new header tank shortly and I'd > > like to also install a low fuel indicator while I'm > > at it. Couple questions for those who've been > > there. > > > > Who can supply a complete kit? Skystar doesn't > > seem to be responding very well these days. > > > > I understand that I can go with either Reed > > Switch or Optical type. Which is better? > > > > If I decide to build my own unit, can anybody > > give me a parts list of the items I would need? > > > > Does anybody have a low fuel indicator that > > they've decided not to use? > > Email me offlist if you have one for sale. > > > > I've got 268 hours on my S5 and I've had no fuel > > flow problems. Are these things really worth the > > bother? > > > > Thanks for any help. > > Darrel > > > _______________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member here From: Lynn Matteson --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson Thanks for the input,Don...and you bring up a valid question...I haven't considered a used KF IV, but I have thought about trying to find a kit that has been started and not finished. I suppose somebody out there had second thoughts after getting started and gave up on the build. Where would I start looking for such a project. I've never been a big fan of E-bay, but I suppose that might be one source. Any others? I've looked in Aero Trader, the magazine with no luck...I'll give their website a try. I'd like to get a project that isn't TOO far into the process, just so I know what's gone into it and that it's good workmanship. Lynn On Thursday, August 19, 2004, at 09:53 PM, Don Pearsall wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" > > > Building is great, but only if you enjoy the building process, and can > keep > at it, day after day. Have you considered buying a used KF-IV? There > are > lots on the market, and you usually can get one at the same cost the > builder > put into it, not counting his time. Putting it on floats would be a fun > project. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:59 AM PST US From: "Ray Kurian" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member here --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ray Kurian" Lynn, I have a partially completed KF I for sale, about 65% complete. If you're interested, I can email you more details. Ray Kurian raykurian@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member here > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Thanks for the input,Don...and you bring up a valid question...I > haven't considered a used KF IV, but I have thought about trying to > find a kit that has been started and not finished. I suppose somebody > out there had second thoughts after getting started and gave up on the > build. Where would I start looking for such a project. I've never been > a big fan of E-bay, but I suppose that might be one source. Any others? > I've looked in Aero Trader, the magazine with no luck...I'll give their > website a try. I'd like to get a project that isn't TOO far into the > process, just so I know what's gone into it and that it's good > workmanship. > > Lynn > On Thursday, August 19, 2004, at 09:53 PM, Don Pearsall wrote: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" > > > > > > Building is great, but only if you enjoy the building process, and can > > keep > > at it, day after day. Have you considered buying a used KF-IV? There > > are > > lots on the market, and you usually can get one at the same cost the > > builder > > put into it, not counting his time. Putting it on floats would be a fun > > project. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:06 AM PST US From: "Howard Firm" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member here --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member here > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > Where would I start looking for such a project. I've never been > a big fan of E-bay, but I suppose that might be one source. Any others? > I've looked in Aero Trader, the magazine with no luck...I'll give their > website a try. I'd like to get a project that isn't TOO far into the > process, just so I know what's gone into it and that it's good > workmanship. > > Lynn Start here... http://www.barnstormers.com/ Howard Firm 508 12th St. South Virginia MN 55792 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:17 AM PST US From: "Roger McConnell" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: new member here --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Roger McConnell" Welcome Lynn, I share a lot of your ideals. 18 years of model building and getting bored with watching the plane go where I tell it and thinking gee I wish I was up there. As far as building a Kitfox, it's just a BIG model. You will thoroughly enjoy the process. Best of luck to you. Roger Mac S7/912s DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member here --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson In response to "do I want to build" versus just "getting up there", I'd say that I want to build more. I've been a builder all my life, from race cars (163mph Hemi-powered, blown, fuel injected T-bucket roadster) to model planes, furniture, to houses and pole barns, etc., and I find the building fun when it leads to a goal. I have in construction a 96" wingspan Stinson Reliant that I have begun covering in Stits Lite fabric (Poly-Fiber). This is an RC plane, of course. In all, I've probably built 10 RC planes from kits. So I'm experienced in building, but not full-size planes. I am presently flying a 110" gas-engined RC plane, the Sig Rascal 110. It occurred to me one day that I was getting bored with watching the plane go through it's paces, and I wanted something more out of the airplane hobby, and it seemed like building and flying a real plane was the next logical step. That, and searching for lost planes, my own and others, led me to make this decision. I'm retired, don't have any "honey" to create any "honey-do's" for me, so I can pretty much spend all my time building as long as the pension and Soc. Security hold out. : ) Lynn do not archive On Thursday, August 19, 2004, at 09:53 PM, Don Pearsall wrote: > > From your post, you mentioned that you want to "get up there." Are you > sure > you want to build? Even with quick build everything, it will take you > a year > or more to build your plane. Perhaps less if you are an experienced > builder. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:03 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" One follow up that I forgo to mention previously, The trip was on a zero time oil change. I have been using for the previous three changes AV-9 by California Power Systems a proprietary brand formulated specifically for the 912 by CPS. One further thought. At the Rotax forum, we were told that the reason for the new oil dipstick was that many oils foam. This was previously not a problem, but EPA considerations have forced blenders to remove some previously anti foaming ingredients and foaming in the return lines to the tank has become a problem. Rotax is in the process of testing the AV-9 and has no recommendations on it at this point. some of the previously recommended oils are no longer on the approved list because of the foaming issue. I had previously used Motul 5100 which was specifically recommended, but has since been removed from the list. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > I can give a little info here. The engine had about 605 hours at the stuck > valve point. I run mogas unless I am on an extended x-country. We fueled > at Elko and interestingly enough, I borrowed at that time some of the newer > formulated TCP - I forgot mine. It was after this fuel load that the valves > stuck. I have never used TCP previously as the stuff was not recommended to > be carried in the airplane. > > Whether the TCP in this load freed up some lead accumulation or whether it > was mere coincidence, I don't know. It was interesting the Eric said the > ATF would not do "anything". > > Whether he meant it would not help - or hurt. I don't know. The ATF was > suggested by one of the group who makes his living working on engines - not > airplane engines. We were looking for Marvel Mystery Oil, but couldn't find > it at the time. This is what Mark used in Idaho. He has had no further > problems, nor have I in the final 40 hours of flight to and from OSH. > Incidentally for information. I started the engine at Afton by being > patient. Eventually the tapping of the lifters freed the valves and after > start-up it ran fine. the hour touring Afton was a little tense, but > uneventful. > > Lowell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Clifford Begnaud" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > > > > > Lowell, > > Interesting report! How about putting it in context by providing some > > background, i.e., how many hours on engine, how many hours using 100LL, > how > > many of those with TCP etc. Also, was it actually verified that lead was > the > > cause? If so, how? > > Thanks, > > Cliff > > > > > > > > I think I should report an incident in the trip recently to Oshkosh. We > > > stopped in Afton Wyoming for fuel and lodging. When the engine cooled a > > > bit, I did a couple of rotations of the prop and as one of the guys > later > > > commented, It was as I was turning a turbine. I had at least four stuck > > > valves. Eric Tucker attributed it to 100LL and the lead. We got some > ATF > > > put it all into one tank and then the group flew over Afton and environs > > > that evening for a little recreation that evening. All was fine from > then > > > on. > > > > > > Mark another in our group had this issue a couple of years ago on one of > > our > > > Idaho trips. > > > > > > Lowell > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas > > > > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Clifford. > > > > > > > > Thanks for writing about your experiences of using 100 LL in the Rotax > > 912 > > > > UL. > > > > I kinda realize there are a lot of folks using this fuel. > > > > But you know what it's like, lots of different stories like the valves > > > > crudding up too soon and the plugs prematurely fouling. To the > > fiberglass > > > fuel tank > > > > being perforated (It makes me feel like standing on the edge of a > rocky > > > cliff > > > > top somewhere in Main, belching, and looking for the "purple pill" > > Nexium) > > > > Anyway, I am ordering a bottle of TCP from John. It makes me feel a > lot > > > more > > > > comfortable. I have only 75 hours on my motor. When I get a couple of > > > hundred > > > > more, I will also have gained more confidence and not be as influenced > > > with > > > > all the frightening gossip that comes from the media...no more > Nexium!! > > > > > > > > Again, Thank you Clifford for a candid view of reality. > > > > Cheers. Eric. Classic IV, Atlanta > > > > > > > > e-mail; ceashman@aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:59 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Rick, my EGTs have always run on the low end of the green arc - about ~ 1400. I have to respectfully disagree on the effect of the ATF. On the fuel stop at Elko, I had one stuck valve as one cylinder's compression was nonexistent. In my mind it was either the ATF wishful thinking or magic. Marks experience last year tends to confirm this as the Marvel Mystery Oil stopped his sticking valve with the first tank of fuel also, with no problem since. That last statement will go down as a forever as I learned last night that the fellow he sold it to apparently rolled it into a ball resulting in a total loss. No injuries as I understand it. The report is not yet in the NTSB data base. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" > > Don't think anything works that fast. I use both TCP, now the new stuff, and > Marvel. If the valves stuck it was because they were tight to begin with and > I suspect EGTs got a bit high. If you were not using the TCP they may have > loaded up over time, but I thinks that doubtful. Do you recall what the EGTs > were. > > Rick N6 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > I can give a little info here. The engine had about 605 hours at the stuck > valve point. I run mogas unless I am on an extended x-country. We fueled > at Elko and interestingly enough, I borrowed at that time some of the newer > formulated TCP - I forgot mine. It was after this fuel load that the valves > stuck. I have never used TCP previously as the stuff was not recommended to > be carried in the airplane. > > Whether the TCP in this load freed up some lead accumulation or whether it > was mere coincidence, I don't know. It was interesting the Eric said the > ATF would not do "anything". > > Whether he meant it would not help - or hurt. I don't know. The ATF was > suggested by one of the group who makes his living working on engines - not > airplane engines. We were looking for Marvel Mystery Oil, but couldn't find > it at the time. This is what Mark used in Idaho. He has had no further > problems, nor have I in the final 40 hours of flight to and from OSH. > Incidentally for information. I started the engine at Afton by being > patient. Eventually the tapping of the lifters freed the valves and after > start-up it ran fine. the hour touring Afton was a little tense, but > uneventful. > > Lowell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Clifford Begnaud" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > > > > > Lowell, > > Interesting report! How about putting it in context by providing some > > background, i.e., how many hours on engine, how many hours using 100LL, > how > > many of those with TCP etc. Also, was it actually verified that lead was > the > > cause? If so, how? > > Thanks, > > Cliff > > > > > > > > I think I should report an incident in the trip recently to Oshkosh. We > > > stopped in Afton Wyoming for fuel and lodging. When the engine cooled a > > > bit, I did a couple of rotations of the prop and as one of the guys > later > > > commented, It was as I was turning a turbine. I had at least four stuck > > > valves. Eric Tucker attributed it to 100LL and the lead. We got some > ATF > > > put it all into one tank and then the group flew over Afton and environs > > > that evening for a little recreation that evening. All was fine from > then > > > on. > > > > > > Mark another in our group had this issue a couple of years ago on one of > > our > > > Idaho trips. > > > > > > Lowell > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP, 912, avgas > > > > > > > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Clifford. > > > > > > > > Thanks for writing about your experiences of using 100 LL in the Rotax > > 912 > > > > UL. > > > > I kinda realize there are a lot of folks using this fuel. > > > > But you know what it's like, lots of different stories like the valves > > > > crudding up too soon and the plugs prematurely fouling. To the > > fiberglass > > > fuel tank > > > > being perforated (It makes me feel like standing on the edge of a > rocky > > > cliff > > > > top somewhere in Main, belching, and looking for the "purple pill" > > Nexium) > > > > Anyway, I am ordering a bottle of TCP from John. It makes me feel a > lot > > > more > > > > comfortable. I have only 75 hours on my motor. When I get a couple of > > > hundred > > > > more, I will also have gained more confidence and not be as influenced > > > with > > > > all the frightening gossip that comes from the media...no more > Nexium!! > > > > > > > > Again, Thank you Clifford for a candid view of reality. > > > > Cheers. Eric. Classic IV, Atlanta > > > > > > > > e-mail; ceashman@aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:02 AM PST US From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: new member here --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Try Peter Gow Marquette SP? MQT Kitfox IV, NSI subi CAP 140 Really nice airplane. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Subject: Kitfox-List: new member here --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson I'm a new member of this group, trying to get all the info I can while making up my mind to buy a new Classic IV. I'm in Grass Lake, MI., (Jackson area) and was wondering if there are any Kitfox IV owners in this area. I've located one in the Benton Harbor, MI area, and am interested in seeing more planes and talking to owners/builders. I'll travel (by land) to locations in this state, and Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, if necessary. I'm an old fart, just learning to fly after spending too much time with radio control planes and wanting to get "up there", and now finally going for it. My thoughts at this point are to get the kit with the quick-build options, and delay the engine choice until later in the building process. I would eventually like to put the plane on floats, so max horsepower is probably the way to go. Any advice out there for an old newbie? Lynn Matteson advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:18 AM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Kitfox-List: Sport Pilot Transition Schedule --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Copied from the Trike List: Just received the following Sport Pilot Implementation Schedule from the Denver FSDO. Finally, some implemenation details on SP. Revision 2 08-06-04 Sport Pilot and Light Sport Aircraft Final Rule Milestones for Implementation September 1, 2004 -- Effective Date of Rule An FAA certificated pilot can exercise sport pilot privileges while operating an FAA certificated aircraft that meets the definition of a light-sport aircraft. October 1, 2004 Unregistered and uncertificated transitioning ultralight-like aircraft can apply for an "N" Number (Aircraft Registration). Application forms will be made available on the AFS-610 website on that date. October 2004 Practical Test Standards and Knowledge Tests Available to the Public Guidelines for Repairman Training Available to the Public DPE and DAR Applications will be accepted by FAA November 2004 First FAA DAR Training Course January 2005 FAA Ready to Issue: o First Sport Pilot Certificate o First Sport Pilot CFI Certificate o First Private Pilot WSC and PPC ratings o Accept applications for additional category and class privileges o First ELSA Certificate o First SLSA Certificate o First Light-sport Repairman Certificate First FAA DPE Training Course February 2005 and beyond DAR and DPE courses as needed Education focusing on CFI roles and responsibilities regards, Steve Cooper N919SC ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:16 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low fuel alarm --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Darrel, The late Ray Volk had the optical sensor. This is his story as he told it to me at one of my early Cameron Park Fly-ins. His was functioning normally - no alarms - but decided to check it out at one of his annual inspections. He drained the tank and unscrewed the unit. He found a string like filament extending from the fitting down into his tank. As he pulled this "string" out it was attached on the end to a mass resembling a "Hershey's Kiss". It was what was left of his optical sensor as something in his fuel had dissolved it and it sank to the bottom of his header tank forming the blob at the end of the descending string. He scrupulously used auto fuel. Often hitch hiking several times into town with his collapsible tank to fuel his Series 5. He flew a lot and was all over the US, once getting the long distance award from the Skystar fly-in having flown a very circuitous route from his home in phoenix to Caldwell something like 2500 miles. I have never heard of this happening to anyone else, so it might not be an issue today with this unit. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low fuel alarm > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > Thanks Ted. I appreciate the input. I checked out the site below and that > switch looks like it would do the job nicely. Some people use the optical > sensor which would probably do fine also, but I've read where some had > trouble keeping the ambient light from setting it off. Then again, it would > appear an advantage is that there are no moving parts. Does anybody know if > there's a failure possiblity with the optical type? Then again, if it quits > working, what's the harm? > Thanks, > Darrel > S5 > > > If you can put a 1/2" NPT fitting toward the top of > > your tank the simplest is the float switch. The 15- > > 650-AC from Compac Engineering is available from > > Durable Controls at (800) 365-0033 for $36. > > http://www.durablecontrols.com. All you need is a > > 12v lamp to complete the system. The Accipter sensor > > used that switch in an external bottle. I pulled my > > switch out and installed it in the tank. I think I > > still have the aluminum bottle laying around. It > > mounts in the header return line. > > > > I've had one in my Kitfox header for years and it > > works well. I also put one in my Nieuport tank. > > It's pretty fool-proof. > > > > Regards, > > > > Ted > > > > > >I'm installing a new header tank shortly and I'd > > like to also install a low > > >fuel indicator while I'm at it. Couple questions > > for those who've been > > >there. > > > > > > Who can supply a complete kit? Skystar doesn't > > seem to be responding > > >very well these days. > > > > > > I understand that I can go with either Reed > > Switch or Optical type. > > >Which is better? > > > > > > If I decide to build my own unit, can anybody > > give me a parts list of > > >the items I would need? > > > > > > Does anybody have a low fuel indicator that > > they've decided not to use? > > >Email me offlist if you have one for sale. > > > > > > I've got 268 hours on my S5 and I've had no fuel > > flow problems. Are > > >these things really worth the bother? > > > > > >Thanks for any help. > > >Darrel > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:45 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low fuel alarm --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Good enough for me Lowell. Thanks. I'll stick with the mechanical reed switch. On that note, do you or anybody else out there have a schematic handy that could be scanned and emailed via attch to me? Would be appreciated. Darrel > Darrel, > > The late Ray Volk had the optical sensor. This is his story as he told it > to me at one of my early Cameron Park Fly-ins. > > His was functioning normally - no alarms - but decided to check it out at > one of his annual inspections. He drained the tank and unscrewed the unit. > He found a string like filament extending from the fitting down into his > tank. As he pulled this "string" out it was attached on the end to a mass > resembling a "Hershey's Kiss". It was what was left of his optical sensor > as something in his fuel had dissolved it and it sank to the bottom of his > header tank forming the blob at the end of the descending string. > > He scrupulously used auto fuel. Often hitch hiking several times into town > with his collapsible tank to fuel his Series 5. He flew a lot and was all > over the US, once getting the long distance award from the Skystar fly-in > having flown a very circuitous route from his home in phoenix to Caldwell > something like 2500 miles. > > I have never heard of this happening to anyone else, so it might not be an > issue today with this unit. > > Lowell > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fox5flyer" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low fuel alarm > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > > > > Thanks Ted. I appreciate the input. I checked out the site below and > that > > switch looks like it would do the job nicely. Some people use the optical > > sensor which would probably do fine also, but I've read where some had > > trouble keeping the ambient light from setting it off. Then again, it > would > > appear an advantage is that there are no moving parts. Does anybody know > if > > there's a failure possiblity with the optical type? Then again, if it > quits > > working, what's the harm? > > Thanks, > > Darrel > > S5 > > > > > If you can put a 1/2" NPT fitting toward the top of > > > your tank the simplest is the float switch. The 15- > > > 650-AC from Compac Engineering is available from > > > Durable Controls at (800) 365-0033 for $36. > > > http://www.durablecontrols.com. All you need is a > > > 12v lamp to complete the system. The Accipter sensor > > > used that switch in an external bottle. I pulled my > > > switch out and installed it in the tank. I think I > > > still have the aluminum bottle laying around. It > > > mounts in the header return line. > > > > > > I've had one in my Kitfox header for years and it > > > works well. I also put one in my Nieuport tank. > > > It's pretty fool-proof. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Ted > > > > > > > >I'm installing a new header tank shortly and I'd > > > like to also install a low > > > >fuel indicator while I'm at it. Couple questions > > > for those who've been > > > >there. > > > > > > > > Who can supply a complete kit? Skystar doesn't > > > seem to be responding > > > >very well these days. > > > > > > > > I understand that I can go with either Reed > > > Switch or Optical type. > > > >Which is better? > > > > > > > > If I decide to build my own unit, can anybody > > > give me a parts list of > > > >the items I would need? > > > > > > > > Does anybody have a low fuel indicator that > > > they've decided not to use? > > > >Email me offlist if you have one for sale. > > > > > > > > I've got 268 hours on my S5 and I've had no fuel > > > flow problems. Are > > > >these things really worth the bother? > > > > > > > >Thanks for any help. > > > >Darrel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:54 AM PST US From: "John E. King " Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel Chatter-- Attention: Peter Graichen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " Peter, I agree totally with you on the compression springs and no slack in the chains.. I had problems with the tension springs on both my Model IV-1200 and Series 6. I now have only compression springs on my Series 6 and both are of the same size. I have no tail wheel chatter problems. -- John King Warrenton, VA Peter Graichen wrote: >4. Use only compression springs, not tension springs for steering. > >Peter Graichen >http://home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:39 AM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Kitfox-List: Please Help w/ Tail Wheel recommendation. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" What type of tail wheel do you recommend for my Kitfox II? My plane has the big ATV main tires and bungee suspension. My home airport is a narrow asphalt runway and has a constant 45 degree 10-12MPH crosswind of 10-12MPH? I was considering Lang, Maule with a solid "Homebuilders Special" tire, Maule pneumatic, or Maule Tundra. Robert Harris San Diego, CA I agree totally with you on the compression springs and no slack in the chains.. John King Warrenton, VA Thanks for the info on the springs. What type of tail wheel do you recommend for my Kitfox II? ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:34 AM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Kitfox-List: FW: Please Help w/ Tail Wheel recommendation. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Please help, What type of tail wheel do you recommend for my Kitfox II? My plane has big ATV main tires and bungee suspension. My home airport is a narrow asphalt runway and has a constant 45 degree crosswind of 10-12MPH. I was considering Lang D-501-A, Maule SFSA with a solid "Homebuilders Special" tire, or Maule P8B Tundra. Robert Harris San Diego, CA I agree totally with you on the compression springs and no slack in the chains.. John King Warrenton, VA Thanks for the info on the springs. What type of tail wheel do you recommend for my Kitfox II? ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:34 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Electric Prop Failure --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader John, That movement worries me too. Maybe these blades are more like turbine blades that flop around at low speeds and tighten up at normal speed. It is just the first prop that I have heard of with that much movement. Gary said his moves too and he talked to NSI about it, so maybe it is OK. I still think you are right to have NSI check it though. Cheap insurance. I wish Lance got his new prop done. I'd like to switch to the more efficient design in the process. He told me he designs for 7 G's, but it sounds like the 912 can induce 9 on start/shutdown with that high compression. One thing about the turbo soob is that it is low compression. Add the clutch and there are no G's at shutdown. The 912 clutch sounds like a good idea. As I said to Gary, I checked mine again last night and all blades are tight, but the drive moves them easily and smoothly. Still it all depends upon avoiding even very small stress risers in the prop structure. Well, back to scoop building and knocking my head.... Kurt S. --- John Oakley wrote: > Kurt, > My blades move quite a bit when I grab then an exert > small pressure on the tips. you can see them move > at the hub. I have always been afraid they will > strike the hub and fracture the boot on startup. > The area we have seen break this week is > the spot I always expected. I don't see a reason to > panic yet but sure am going to take a better look. > I have been thinking of having NSI overhaul or > inspect mine, and maybe a new set of blades > installed to tighten up things. I ever noticed a > gearbox movement. Last year we went through a bout > with carb ice and the engine was rough as heck. > I have had a vibration ever since, that I have > not been able to find, hummm. > > John Oakley ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:24 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vic C. - KF V 1550 project for sale --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Vic, You wanted a V-1550? I found this one on Barstormers. Sounds like it is still in the box? Kurt S. _______________________________ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:47 AM PST US From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low fuel alarm --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" It's pretty simple: +12V-------lamp-------float switch------ground | | | | ---test switch--- --- Original Message --- From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low fuel alarm >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > >Good enough for me Lowell. Thanks. I'll stick with the mechanical reed >switch. On that note, do you or anybody else out there have a schematic >handy that could be scanned and emailed via attch to me? Would be >appreciated. >Darrel > >> Darrel, >> >> The late Ray Volk had the optical sensor. This is his story as he told it >> to me at one of my early Cameron Park Fly-ins. >> >> His was functioning normally - no alarms - but decided to check it out at >> one of his annual inspections. He drained the tank and unscrewed the >unit. >> He found a string like filament extending from the fitting down into his >> tank. As he pulled this "string" out it was attached on the end to a mass >> resembling a "Hershey's Kiss". It was what was left of his optical sensor >> as something in his fuel had dissolved it and it sank to the bottom of >his >> header tank forming the blob at the end of the descending string. >> >> He scrupulously used auto fuel. Often hitch hiking several times into >town >> with his collapsible tank to fuel his Series 5. He flew a lot and was all >> over the US, once getting the long distance award from the Skystar fly-in >> having flown a very circuitous route from his home in phoenix to Caldwell >> something like 2500 miles. >> >> I have never heard of this happening to anyone else, so it might not be an >> issue today with this unit. >> >> Lowell >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Fox5flyer" >> To: >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low fuel alarm >> >> >> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > >> > >> > >> > Thanks Ted. I appreciate the input. I checked out the site below and >> that >> > switch looks like it would do the job nicely. Some people use the >optical >> > sensor which would probably do fine also, but I've read where some had >> > trouble keeping the ambient light from setting it off. Then again, it >> would >> > appear an advantage is that there are no moving parts. Does anybody >know >> if >> > there's a failure possiblity with the optical type? Then again, if it >> quits >> > working, what's the harm? >> > Thanks, >> > Darrel >> > S5 >> > >> > > If you can put a 1/2" NPT fitting toward the top of >> > > your tank the simplest is the float switch. The 15- >> > > 650-AC from Compac Engineering is available from >> > > Durable Controls at (800) 365-0033 for $36. >> > > http://www.durablecontrols.com. All you need is a >> > > 12v lamp to complete the system. The Accipter sensor >> > > used that switch in an external bottle. I pulled my >> > > switch out and installed it in the tank. I think I >> > > still have the aluminum bottle laying around. It >> > > mounts in the header return line. >> > > >> > > I've had one in my Kitfox header for years and it >> > > works well. I also put one in my Nieuport tank. >> > > It's pretty fool-proof. >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > >> > > Ted >> > > > >> > > >I'm installing a new header tank shortly and I'd >> > > like to also install a low >> > > >fuel indicator while I'm at it. Couple questions >> > > for those who've been >> > > >there. >> > > > >> > > > Who can supply a complete kit? Skystar doesn't >> > > seem to be responding >> > > >very well these days. >> > > > >> > > > I understand that I can go with either Reed >> > > Switch or Optical type. >> > > >Which is better? >> > > > >> > > > If I decide to build my own unit, can anybody >> > > give me a parts list of >> > > >the items I would need? >> > > > >> > > > Does anybody have a low fuel indicator that >> > > they've decided not to use? >> > > >Email me offlist if you have one for sale. >> > > > >> > > > I've got 268 hours on my S5 and I've had no fuel >> > > flow problems. Are >> > > >these things really worth the bother? >> > > > >> > > >Thanks for any help. >> > > >Darrel >> > > > >> > > > >> > >> > >> >> > > >_- ====================================================== ================== Contributions any other Forums. >_- ====================================================== ================== >_- ====================================================== ================== http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare list http://www.matronics.com/emaillists http://www.matronics.com/contribution >_- ====================================================== ================== > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:41 AM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Electric Prop Failure From: "kitfoxjunky" 01:20:35 PM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxjunky" I am not sure on the orientation of the fracture either Kurt. Lance may be able to comment, since he now has the prop. Those punch marks are a real mystery. I do not think they were the cause of someone hammering on the bearing, rather I think they were added to lock the bearing in place. An engineer who looked at them said that is not an uncommon practise if you are working on a car or a tractor, but it would never be acceptable for airplane parts. NSI says the bearing is a press fit, and they would not dimple it if it was loose. The previous owner said for sure he did not do it. Sure would be good to have a time machine to find out how they got there. Regardless, this is not the blade that failed. I found the outside appearance of the cuff interesting. As you can see from the photograph, the color is not consistent. There are spots where it is darker. I had a look at a new NSI hub at Oshkosh that they had cut up to show the internal workings, and it did not look like this at all. Maybe that is just the way the finish aged. I find it interesting that you say you have no play in your blades fore and aft. Wish I had put the blade on new, and could confirm they were tight from the start. Mine always had a bit of play in them, and it concerned me enough that I had asked NSI about it. I was thinking of sending it back to NSI for a rebuild winter, as the greese and the play were causing me some concern. Sure wish I had. Why the prop let go at that particular time I will never understand. 15 minutes earlier I was pulling full power on takeoff. You would think if already had a crack and was ready to let go, it would have done it then instead of in cruise. Gary Walsh C-GOOT www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox kurt schrader cc: Sent by: Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Electric Prop Failure owner-kitfox-list-server@ma tronics.com 08/20/2004 02:04 AM Please respond to kitfox-list --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Excellent info Gary. Top notch. Glad you are here to give us the cold, hard facts. One thing I am having trouble picking out from the photos is the relation of the failure origion to the blade orientation. I suspect it is about in line with the prop rotation plane on the leading edge side at normal pitch. Is that correct? Just a theory. Leading edge alignment is from engine power and startup? Trailing edge is from shutdown? That would assume no significant flaw that overrides the engine stresses and that the engine stresses are greater than flight stresses. Just me guessing though. Again I like the strength of those Warp blades. Would make a good sword. Bronze age. Iron age. Carbon age? The hub appears to have lost 50% of its strength before it let go in shear. It might have been impossible to detect on preflight, so your NDT might have been the only way to know. For some reason the metal grain size surprises me. I checked my blades for movement tonight and found them to have none at all by feel other than the GB output shaft clicking. Ran into them 3 more times working on my scoop. :-( Like hitting a flat fishing pole. Better than metal. Those punch marks bother me too. Never saw anything done that way. Someone seems to have forced the bearing on with the nearest tool at hand.... Not wood. Not socket. Not a pipe, but a punch? Not pointing fingers allows us to pass on needed info here, but there is more than one problem with this prop that we need to watch for. Having just rebuilt my prop, I did not see any of the questionable items you found. Getting old and losing your eyesight has its advantages, I suppose. Waiting for NSI's report.... Sorry about Lance's medical problems. Might cause a delay. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- kitfoxjunky wrote: > John > > I thought I noticed a vibration too that was not > there before..but you know how that kind of thing > goes. > ............... > Something this experience has taught me is that NDT > testing is very cheap. > ............... > From what I am hearing, the NSI product has a pretty > good track record. It could be the combination of > the 912S (high compression and vibration during > start and shut down) and that prop that is the > problem. Then again, since I was not the original > owner I do not know everything the prop has been > through. You never know if everything that should > be in the log book is actually there. > ............. > Have a look at the lab report from the lab that > documented the prop right after I removed it from > the plane. I put it up on my web site. There was > something else that turned up that raises some > questions. One of the bearing races on the end of > the prop was dimpled. A punch was used to make > indentations to hold the bearing in place. > > Gary Walsh > C-GOOT > www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox _______________________________ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:27 AM PST US From: "flier" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low fuel alarm --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" Well, it'd be simple if my diagrams came out right! The 'test' switch goes in parallel with the float switch... --- Original Message --- From: "flier" list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low fuel alarm >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" > >It's pretty simple: > >+12V-------lamp-------float switch------ground > | | > | | > ---test switch--- > >--- Original Message --- >From: "Fox5flyer" >To: >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low fuel alarm > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > >> >>Good enough for me Lowell. Thanks. I'll stick with >the mechanical reed >>switch. On that note, do you or anybody else out >there have a schematic >>handy that could be scanned and emailed via attch to >me? Would be >>appreciated. >>Darrel >> >>> Darrel, >>> >>> The late Ray Volk had the optical sensor. This is >his story as he told it >>> to me at one of my early Cameron Park Fly-ins. >>> >>> His was functioning normally - no alarms - but >decided to check it out at >>> one of his annual inspections. He drained the >tank and unscrewed the >>unit. >>> He found a string like filament extending from the >fitting down into his >>> tank. As he pulled this "string" out it was >attached on the end to a mass >>> resembling a "Hershey's Kiss". It was what was >left of his optical sensor >>> as something in his fuel had dissolved it and it >sank to the bottom of >>his >>> header tank forming the blob at the end of the >descending string. >>> >>> He scrupulously used auto fuel. Often hitch >hiking several times into >>town >>> with his collapsible tank to fuel his Series 5. >He flew a lot and was all >>> over the US, once getting the long distance award >from the Skystar fly-in >>> having flown a very circuitous route from his home >in phoenix to Caldwell >>> something like 2500 miles. >>> >>> I have never heard of this happening to anyone >else, so it might not be an >>> issue today with this unit. >>> >>> Lowell >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Fox5flyer" >>> To: >>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Low fuel alarm >>> >>> >>> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" >> >>> > >>> > >>> > Thanks Ted. I appreciate the input. I checked >out the site below and >>> that >>> > switch looks like it would do the job nicely. >Some people use the >>optical >>> > sensor which would probably do fine also, but >I've read where some had >>> > trouble keeping the ambient light from setting >it off. Then again, it >>> would >>> > appear an advantage is that there are no moving >parts. Does anybody >>know >>> if >>> > there's a failure possiblity with the optical >type? Then again, if it >>> quits >>> > working, what's the harm? >>> > Thanks, >>> > Darrel >>> > S5 >>> > >>> > > If you can put a 1/2" NPT fitting toward the >top of >>> > > your tank the simplest is the float switch. >The 15- >>> > > 650-AC from Compac Engineering is available >from >>> > > Durable Controls at (800) 365-0033 for $36. >>> > > http://www.durablecontrols.com. All you need >is a >>> > > 12v lamp to complete the system. The Accipter >sensor >>> > > used that switch in an external bottle. I >pulled my >>> > > switch out and installed it in the tank. I >think I >>> > > still have the aluminum bottle laying around. >It >>> > > mounts in the header return line. >>> > > >>> > > I've had one in my Kitfox header for years and >it >>> > > works well. I also put one in my Nieuport >tank. >>> > > It's pretty fool-proof. >>> > > >>> > > Regards, >>> > > >>> > > Ted >>> > > > >>> > > >I'm installing a new header tank shortly and >I'd >>> > > like to also install a low >>> > > >fuel indicator while I'm at it. Couple >questions >>> > > for those who've been >>> > > >there. >>> > > > >>> > > > Who can supply a complete kit? Skystar >doesn't >>> > > seem to be responding >>> > > >very well these days. >>> > > > >>> > > > I understand that I can go with either >Reed >>> > > Switch or Optical type. >>> > > >Which is better? >>> > > > >>> > > > If I decide to build my own unit, can >anybody >>> > > give me a parts list of >>> > > >the items I would need? >>> > > > >>> > > > Does anybody have a low fuel indicator >that >>> > > they've decided not to use? >>> > > >Email me offlist if you have one for sale. >>> > > > >>> > > > I've got 268 hours on my S5 and I've had >no fuel >>> > > flow problems. Are >>> > > >these things really worth the bother? >>> > > > >>> > > >Thanks for any help. >>> > > >Darrel >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >> >> >>_- >===================================================== = >================== >Contributions >any other >Forums. >>_- >===================================================== = >================== >>_- >===================================================== = >================== >http://www.matronics.com/subscription >http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm >http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list >http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list >http://www.matronics.com/archives >http://www.matronics.com/photoshare >list >http://www.matronics.com/emaillists >>_- >===================================================== = >================== >> >> > > >_- ====================================================== ================== Contributions any other Forums. >_- ====================================================== ================== >_- ====================================================== ================== http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare list http://www.matronics.com/emaillists http://www.matronics.com/contribution >_- ====================================================== ================== > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:27 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Please Help w/ Tail Wheel recommendation. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Robert, I recommend the homebuilders special, unless you need the pneumatic for bush work Cliff > What type of tail wheel do you recommend for my Kitfox II? > > My plane has the big ATV main tires and bungee suspension. My home airport > is a narrow asphalt runway and has a constant 45 degree 10-12MPH crosswind > of 10-12MPH? > > I was considering Lang, Maule with a solid "Homebuilders Special" tire, > Maule pneumatic, or Maule Tundra. > Robert Harris > San Diego, CA > > > I agree totally with you on the compression springs and no slack in the > chains.. > John King > Warrenton, VA > > Thanks for the info on the springs. > What type of tail wheel do you recommend for my Kitfox II? > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:22 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Tension vs. compression WAS: Tail Wheel Chatte --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe "John E. King" wrote: > I agree totally with you on the compression springs and no slack in the chains.. I have the tension springs, John, and although I understand the safety of the compression type, is there something to it than the retaining in case of fracture? Is there a record of any tension springs to have failed ... apart from coming loose at one end? Thanks in advance, Michel ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:50 AM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" recomme ndation. Subject: With the Maule?RE: Kitfox-List: Please Help w/ Tail Wheel recomme ndation. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Cliff, The entire Homebuilder Special assembly or just the tire on the Maule assembly? > What type of tail wheel do you recommend for my Kitfox II? > > My plane has the big ATV main tires and bungee suspension. My home airport > is a narrow asphalt runway and has a constant 45 degree 10-12MPH crosswind > of 10-12MPH? > > I was considering Lang, Maule with a solid "Homebuilders Special" tire, > Maule pneumatic, or Maule Tundra. > Robert Harris > San Diego, CA > > > I agree totally with you on the compression springs and no slack in the > chains.. > John King > Warrenton, VA > > Thanks for the info on the springs. > What type of tail wheel do you recommend for my Kitfox II? > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:33 AM PST US From: VFT@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox for sale --> Kitfox-List message posted by: VFT@aol.com Ok guys, I just got word that the engine for my F1 project will ship the end of Sept. I REALLY need to sell N24ZM. $35,000 or best offer. Pics and info at www.aero-kids.com. -- Danny Melnik F1 #25 Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:09 AM PST US From: "Vic Jacko" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vic C. - KF V 1550 project for sale --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" Thanks Kurt, Why does Washington state have to be so far from Eastern NM? I do not know why the gear is not included. Vic ----- Original Message ----- From: "kurt schrader" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vic C. - KF V 1550 project for sale > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > > Vic, > > You wanted a V-1550? I found this one on Barstormers. > Sounds like it is still in the box? > > > > Kurt S. > > > _______________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:19 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List:Tail Wheel recommendation. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Clifford Begnaud wrote: > I recommend the homebuilders special, unless you need the pneumatic for bush > work I take to occasion to mention that I still haven't heard from Aircraft Spruce but it gives me a chance to think about this: Could it be interesting to buy the Homebuilt Special Heavy duty with double fork to ... attach a small ski on it? Has anybody done that? Just wondering, thanks. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:25 PM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: With the Maule?RE: Kitfox-List: Please Help w/ Tail Wheel recomme ndation. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" I like the entire assembly. Cliff > > Cliff, > The entire Homebuilder Special assembly or just the tire on the Maule > assembly? > > > > What type of tail wheel do you recommend for my Kitfox II? > > > > My plane has the big ATV main tires and bungee suspension. My home airport > > is a narrow asphalt runway and has a constant 45 degree 10-12MPH crosswind > > of 10-12MPH? > > > > I was considering Lang, Maule with a solid "Homebuilders Special" tire, > > Maule pneumatic, or Maule Tundra. > > Robert Harris > > San Diego, CA > > > > > > I agree totally with you on the compression springs and no slack in the > > chains.. > > John King > > Warrenton, VA > > > > Thanks for the info on the springs. > > What type of tail wheel do you recommend for my Kitfox II? > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:49 PM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel recommendation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" I'll try a new Homebuilders Special tailwheel assembly like Lowell and Cliff have. There's 440 hours on my existing heavy duty Homebuilder's Special tail wheel and it breaks free on rough landings. My chains are tight and I have compression springs. I'll let you know if replacing the assembly improves this. Robert, I recommend the homebuilders special, unless you need the pneumatic for bush work Cliff > What type of tail wheel do you recommend for my Kitfox II? > I was considering Lang, Maule with a solid "Homebuilders Special" tire, > Maule pneumatic, or Maule Tundra. > Robert Harris > San Diego, CA > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:55 PM PST US From: "Howard Firm" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vic C. - KF V 1550 project for sale --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vic Jacko" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vic C. - KF V 1550 project for sale > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" > > Thanks Kurt, Why does Washington state have to be so far from Eastern > NM? I do not know why the gear is not included. > > Vic Make sure that you have a complete paper trail from the factory to you. I am the third owner of my kit and the first two owners are dead, but I don't have the paperwork from the sale of the 1st and 2nd owner. I have the original receipt from Skystar to the first owner, and the paperwork from the 2nd owner to me...but not the middle part. My application for registration has been denied three times now. Howard Firm 508 12th St. South Virginia MN 55792 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:02 PM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Howard what can you do to register your plane? Does anyone know how can one can annual from an A&P when the service records cannot be located. Robert -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Howard Firm Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vic C. - KF V 1550 project for sale --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vic Jacko" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vic C. - KF V 1550 project for sale > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" > > Thanks Kurt, Why does Washington state have to be so far from Eastern > NM? I do not know why the gear is not included. > > Vic Make sure that you have a complete paper trail from the factory to you. I am the third owner of my kit and the first two owners are dead, but I don't have the paperwork from the sale of the 1st and 2nd owner. I have the original receipt from Skystar to the first owner, and the paperwork from the 2nd owner to me...but not the middle part. My application for registration has been denied three times now. Howard Firm 508 12th St. South Virginia MN 55792 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:22 PM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Howard what can you do to register your plane? Related question... Does anyone know how you can obtain an annual from an A&P when there are no prior maintenance records? Robert Make sure that you have a complete paper trail from the factory to you. I am the third owner of my kit and the first two owners are dead, but I don't have the paperwork from the sale of the 1st and 2nd owner. I have the original receipt from Skystar to the first owner, and the paperwork from the 2nd owner to me...but not the middle part. My application for registration has been denied three times now. Howard Firm 508 12th St. South Virginia MN 55792 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:22 PM PST US From: "Howard Firm" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" > > Howard what can you do to register your plane? > > Does anyone know how can one can annual from an A&P when the service records > cannot be located. > > Robert So far, I don't know what else I can do....I did finally contact the FAA Registry on the phone and was told that my application was going to have to go "Upstairs" to be approved, but it was turned down anyway....I last sent a notarized statement explaining everything about one month ago....have yet to hear back. Howard ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:13 PM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:42:03 -0600 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" I know a fellow who had the same problem, he created a paper trail from Denny Aircraft (who is no long in business) to himself as original owner. FAA did not question the paper work. Dee Young Model II N345DY Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Harris, Robert To: 'kitfox-list@matronics.com' Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 3:31 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" > Howard what can you do to register your plane? Related question... Does anyone know how you can obtain an annual from an A&P when there are no prior maintenance records? Robert Make sure that you have a complete paper trail from the factory to you. I am the third owner of my kit and the first two owners are dead, but I don't have the paperwork from the sale of the 1st and 2nd owner. I have the original receipt from Skystar to the first owner, and the paperwork from the 2nd owner to me...but not the middle part. My application for registration has been denied three times now. Howard Firm 508 12th St. South Virginia MN 55792 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:45 PM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Kitfox-List: Can anybody can help Howard? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Boy that is really too bad. Can anybody can help Howard? -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Howard Firm Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" > > Howard what can you do to register your plane? > > Does anyone know how can one can annual from an A&P when the service records > cannot be located. > > Robert So far, I don't know what else I can do....I did finally contact the FAA Registry on the phone and was told that my application was going to have to go "Upstairs" to be approved, but it was turned down anyway....I last sent a notarized statement explaining everything about one month ago....have yet to hear back. Howard ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:11 PM PST US From: "John E. King " Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tension vs. compression WAS: Tail Wheel Chatte --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John E. King " Michel, My experience with tension springs is that they can become stretched and they are prone to coming detached if not kept tight by the chains and the hooked ends bent over to prevent that. The compression springs cannot become unhooked or stretched when attached to the chains. -- John King Warrenton, VA Michel Verheughe wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > >"John E. King" wrote: > > >>I agree totally with you on the compression springs and no slack in the chains.. >> >> > >I have the tension springs, John, and although I understand the safety of the >compression type, is there something to it than the retaining in case of >fracture? Is there a record of any tension springs to have failed ... apart >from coming loose at one end? > >Thanks in advance, > >Michel > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:10 PM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Kitfox-List: denied three times now --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Dee, I bet that would work. ----- Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" I know a fellow who had the same problem, he created a paper trail from Denny Aircraft (who is no long in business) to himself as original owner. FAA did not question the paper work. Dee Young Model II N345DY Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Harris, Robert To: 'kitfox-list@matronics.com' Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 3:31 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" > Howard what can you do to register your plane? Related question... Does anyone know how you can obtain an annual from an A&P when there are no prior maintenance records? Robert Make sure that you have a complete paper trail from the factory to you. I am the third owner of my kit and the first two owners are dead, but I don't have the paperwork from the sale of the 1st and 2nd owner. I have the original receipt from Skystar to the first owner, and the paperwork from the 2nd owner to me...but not the middle part. My application for registration has been denied three times now. Howard Firm 508 12th St. South Virginia MN 55792 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:14 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > > Does anyone know how can one can annual from an A&P when the service records > cannot be located. > > Robert As an A&P you do not need the paper work to get a " condition inspection " (an annual insp for expirementals) as long as there are no certified parts like an engine on board with AD 's. All you have to do is have an airplane that is in good condition. If you have any AD's ( certified parts only) you will have to have them inspected to confirm completion or have them redone ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:57 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: Kitfox-List: Spinner help cooling? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" A friend of mine with a series 5 and an O-200 is having cooling problems. A number of little things have brought the temp down about 25 F but he wants about 20 more. Baffles look good. He doesn't have a spinner on it. He is using a Warp Drive prop and that big flat hub looks like it would not help getting the air into the cowl. (Looks that way to me at least.) Can any one say what a spinner would do to help get more air into the cowl? Thanks, Randy - Plane's ready. Working to get me ready! . ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:58:00 PM PST US From: Fred Shiple Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple Howard, Have you tried contacting the EAA? This should be right up their alley. Fred do not archive So far, I don't know what else I can do....I did finally contact the FAA ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:34 PM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Thanks, That's great news. To confirm I don't need prior records to get an annual inspection on my experimental already registered plane as long as I don't have certified parts. Will the A&P give me an airworthy note? My plane is N numbered and has current registration with FAA. Robert As an A&P you do not need the paper work to get a " condition inspection " (an annual insp for expirementals) as long as there are no certified parts like an engine on board with AD 's. All you have to do is have an airplane that is in good condition. If you have any AD's ( certified parts only) you will have to have them inspected to confirm completion or have them redone That is great news. Will the A&P give me a form that says my experimental plane is airworthy? ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:55 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Spinner help cooling? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: I have never heard of a spinner helping to cool an engine but would not be surprised if it did. you might want to check that all of the cooling fins are clean and that the baffle seals make good contact with the cal. Also make sure the exit path is clear and large enough for the cooling air to exit. Remember that the exit hole must be larger then the inlet as the air has expanded as it absorbed heat from the engine. > A friend of mine with a series 5 and an O-200 is having cooling problems. A > number of little things have brought the temp down about 25 F but he wants > about 20 more. Baffles look good. > > He doesn't have a spinner on it. He is using a Warp Drive prop and that big > flat hub looks like it would not help getting the air into the cowl. (Looks > that way to me at least.) > > Can any one say what a spinner would do to help get more air into the cowl? > > Thanks, > Randy - Plane's ready. Working to get me ready! ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:31 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: As long as the aircraft can pass an inspection the A&P should give you a sign off to fly in your new logbook. I have done this for an indivual whose logbooks were lost in a hoouse fire. As for your regestration problem, was the aircraft ever registered to the second owner? If it was you should not need his bill of sale. just the fact that it was registered in his name as proof > > Thanks, > That's great news. To confirm I don't need prior records to get an annual > inspection on my experimental already registered plane as long as I don't > have certified parts. Will the A&P give me an airworthy note? My plane is N > numbered and has current registration with FAA. > > Robert > > > As an A&P you do not need the paper work to get a " condition inspection " > (an annual insp for expirementals) > as long as there are no certified parts like an engine on board with AD 's. > All you have to do is have an airplane that is in good condition. If you > have any AD's ( certified parts only) you will have to have them inspected > to confirm completion or have them redone > > > That is great news. Will the A&P give me a form that says my experimental > plane is airworthy? > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:24 PM PST US From: "Bruce Harrington" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tension vs. compression WAS: Tail Wheel Chatte --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" I safety wired the tension spring ends on my IV-1200 so they would not pop off. bh > Michel, > > My experience with tension springs is that they can become stretched and they are prone to coming detached if not kept tight by the chains and the hooked ends bent over to prevent that. The compression springs cannot become unhooked or stretched when attached to the chains. > > -- > John King > Warrenton, VA ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:15 PM PST US From: "Howard Firm" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" The plane was never registered, What I should have done is to make a fake bill of sale from the 1st buyer to me....and leaving out the 2nd buyer altogether.....I think it will happen sometime...it's a bummer having to wait though....I uploaded a much better pic on Sportflight. Howard Firm 508 12th St. South Virginia MN 55792 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:30 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Kitfox-List: Terra by Trimble Documentation? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Desperate! I'm looking for copies of the documentation for the TD200, TDN250 CDI HEAD...It's for the older stuff with the push button wheels on the front. Could someone make copies of their manuals for me...please? I'll be glad to pay the mailing and copy charges. I would be so grateful. I have the radio, NAV Transponder, blind encoder and the CDI head. I need the docs! Steve Cooper (661) 256-0140 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:00 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Electric Prop Failure --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" Just an interesting bit of information. A friend of mine, one smart guy, figured the load at the blade attachment point on a two blade prop is 30,000 pounds. Yes 15 tons. That blade is the standard length for an IO360 cardinal. Don't know what the warp blade weighs, less for sure, but it give you some idea of the forces involved. Rick N6 ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:43 PM PST US From: Fred Shiple Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed(pics) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple Stunning finish, Howard. Both you and your wife should be proud. Fred ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:18 PM PST US From: "Bob Unternaehrer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" Have you tried an affidavit from the deceased estate stateing who it was sold to. I hear that works. Bob U. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Firm" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Harris, Robert" > To: > Subject: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" > > > > > Howard what can you do to register your plane? > > > > Does anyone know how can one can annual from an A&P when the service > records > > cannot be located. > > > > Robert > > > So far, I don't know what else I can do....I did finally contact the FAA > Registry on the phone and was told that my application was going to have to > go "Upstairs" to be approved, but it was turned down anyway....I last sent a > notarized statement explaining everything about one month ago....have yet to > hear back. > > Howard > > > --- > > --- ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:50 PM PST US From: Jim Crowder Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Electric Prop Failure --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder At 12:04 AM 8/20/2004, you wrote: >I checked my blades for movement tonight and found >them to have none at all by feel other than the GB >output shaft clicking. Ran into them 3 more times >working on my scoop. :-( Like hitting a flat fishing >pole. Better than metal. I'm leaving town in the morning for a couple of weeks, but I found an excuse to drive to the airport and checked my CAP. The blades turn freely by light finger pressure, but I can detect no shaft end play and the blades refuse to rotate by hand--no play that way either. Since the manual calls some end play normal, I would be concerned if they did not rotate so easily. They have virtually no time, so will probably develop some play after more time. I continue to watch this thread with great interest. Lance says his new blades will be ready by the first of next year. Jim Crowder ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:11 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: No records Annual needed? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Great looking panel too Howard. Kurt S. do not archive --- Howard Firm wrote: > ....I uploaded a much better pic on Sportflight. > > Howard Firm > 508 12th St. South > Virginia MN 55792 _______________________________ ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:32 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tension vs. compression WAS: Tail Wheel Chatte --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Michel, My understanding of it is that the tension springs can keep streching, but the compression springs can only go until full contact. Once completely compressed, you are directly controlling the tailwheel, unless it breaks away. So what I was told is that the compression springs give more positive control. Maybe a little more responsive too. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Michel Verheughe wrote: > "John E. King" wrote: > > I agree totally with you on the compression > springs and no slack in the chains.. > > I have the tension springs, John, and although I > understand the safety of the compression type, is > there something to it than the retaining in case of > fracture? Is there a record of any tension springs > to have failed ... apart from coming loose at one > end? > Thanks in advance, > > Michel __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:44 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tension vs. compression WAS: Tail Wheel Chatte --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Michel, My understanding of it is that the tension springs can keep streching, but the compression springs can only go until full contact. Once completely compressed, you are directly controlling the tailwheel, unless it breaks away. So what I was told is that the compression springs give more positive control. Maybe a little more responsive too. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Michel Verheughe wrote: > "John E. King" wrote: > > I agree totally with you on the compression > springs and no slack in the chains.. > > I have the tension springs, John, and although I > understand the safety of the compression type, is > there something to it than the retaining in case of > fracture? Is there a record of any tension springs > to have failed ... apart from coming loose at one > end? > Thanks in advance, > > Michel __________________________________ Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.