---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/24/04: 41 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:54 AM - Re: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all (Fox5flyer) 2. 04:29 AM - Tailwheel springs and rudder cable (Michel Verheughe) 3. 04:36 AM - SV: 2nd radio (Michel Verheughe) 4. 04:54 AM - Re: 2nd radio (Clifford Begnaud) 5. 05:02 AM - Re: Three blade prop & 3:1 gearbox (Gary Algate) 6. 05:12 AM - Rad scoop (Gary Algate) 7. 06:04 AM - Re: Rad scoop (Rick) 8. 07:00 AM - Re: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 9. 07:09 AM - Re: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all (Lowell Fitt) 10. 08:10 AM - Re: SV: 2nd radio (John King) 11. 08:32 AM - Vortex Generators (Chuck & Vicki Tippett) 12. 08:38 AM - Trailering a Kitfox on Floats (Chuck & Vicki Tippett) 13. 08:52 AM - Vortex Generators (Chuck & Vicki Tippett) 14. 08:57 AM - Hey. Chuck Worn elevator Hinge? (Harris, Robert) 15. 09:13 AM - Re: Kitfox for sale (Aerobatics@aol.com) 16. 10:24 AM - Re: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all (Fox5flyer) 17. 10:46 AM - Re: Hinge Play Question? Please help. (Torgeir Mortensen) 18. 11:09 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox on Floats () 19. 11:19 AM - Re: Vortex Generators () 20. 11:23 AM - Re: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all (Torgeir Mortensen) 21. 11:57 AM - Re: SV: 2nd radio (Michel Verheughe) 22. 12:19 PM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox on Floats () 23. 02:01 PM - Re: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all (John King) 24. 02:19 PM - Thank You.Re: Hinge Play Question? Please help. (Harris, Robert) 25. 03:26 PM - Question and Opinion (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 26. 04:50 PM - FYI Fuelube (Fox5flyer) 27. 05:22 PM - Re: 912 plug wires (neflyer48) 28. 05:25 PM - Re: Question and Opinion (RICHARD HUTSON) 29. 07:27 PM - Adv. - Surplus Aircraft Tools from BrownTool - Adv. (BrownTool@aol.com) 30. 07:49 PM - Re: Question and Opinion (Marc Arseneault) 31. 08:10 PM - Re: Question and Opinion (Bruce Harrington) 32. 08:19 PM - Re: Question and Opinion (Steve Cooper) 33. 08:37 PM - Re: Question and Opinion (jdmcbean) 34. 08:43 PM - NSI Ignition pickup (Comp User) 35. 09:08 PM - Re: NSI Ignition pickup (Rick) 36. 09:29 PM - Re: SV: 2nd radio (jimshumaker) 37. 09:31 PM - Re: Vortex Generators (jimshumaker) 38. 10:12 PM - Re: Re: NSI Ignition pickup (Comp User) 39. 10:39 PM - Re: NSI Ignition pickup (kurt schrader) 40. 10:52 PM - Re: 2nd radio (kurt schrader) 41. 10:58 PM - Re: Kitfox for sale (kurt schrader) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:38 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Well said Rex and it makes a lot of sense to me. I've thought about this previously and wondered if perhaps the compression springs could possibly have been a factor in the many broken rudder peddle assemblies. I've always used tension springs and have had no problems with them. One thing I did was to close up the end hooks slightly so they couldn't pop off. However, I still don't understand how compression springs can give better control. Total of nearly 700 kitfox hours and none have popped off. Darrel > > Those light springs in the cabin just keep the cables from flopping in the > case of no foot pressure on the pedals. So foot pressure and those light > springs both contribute to cable tension. The cables between the pedals and > rudder horns under tension become a solid link. The rudder horns are > connected via chains and the springs we are discussing to the tail wheel > steering horns. Now any pressure turning or attempting to turn the tail > wheel is applied back through the chains and discussed springs to the rudder > cables that will pull against foot pressure. Now excess force that is > applied back is absorbed by those discussed springs. If the springs are the > original tension springs then they just stretch out more and more as more > excess force is applied. However if one swaps those tension springs for > compression springs they squeeze up rather than stretch out BUT can only > squeeze until we get coil bind at which point something has to give, That > could be the wheel resisting the force trying to turn it, your foot forced > back on the appropriate pedal or the locking device in the tail wheel > letting go and allowing the tail wheel to swivel. The other thing though is > there is more tension on the appropriate rudder cable while this is > happening because that compression spring has closed right up to the point > of coil bind and become a solid in effect. The original tension spring would > just keep stretching and even although as it does the pressure is ever > increasing it is not like a solid the compression spring becomes. Also as > the compression spring reaches coil bind there is a jarring moment that is > taken in the whole line including the appropriate cable. > The jarring moment and increased pressure applied through the cable is my > concern. I am not saying it is a problem. In fact I was asking if any one > had thought about it and/or decided it was a worry or problem. > Should a rudder cable fail during a ground roll it would probably cause a > ground loop at the least. However if a cable failed in flight due to > previous strain on the ground it would not be nice either and some clever > flying at least would be needed to get out of it and a change of underwear > if not a coffin would be called for. I suppose one could compromise with a > hospital ! > > Rex. > PS > I do agree that the compression springs would most likely give better > control. It's a matter of relative tensions. > rexjan@bigpond.com > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:18 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Tailwheel springs and rudder cable --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Rex & Jan Shaw [rexjan@bigpond.com] > The jarring moment and increased pressure applied through the cable is my > concern. You are right, Rex, I didn't think of it in terms of a compression spring being under constant compression between the horns, thus having little to go before being full compressed and putting load on the cable and the pedal assembly. Good thinking, Rex! You also sent me a similar explanation to my private email address; I won't answer that one because I have nothing to add than what I have already said: ... Good thinking, Rex! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:06 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: 2nd radio --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: jareds [jareds@verizon.net] > FLying in DC's restricted airspace requires monitoring and switching > between several frequencies. I can't answer your question, Jared, but I'd like to take the opportunity to mention that maritime VHF has a function called Dual Watch where you can listen to two channels at the same time, having one as the priority one (usually the Ch 16, Calling and Emergency Channel). The point is; you can watch two frequencies with only one receiver. The radio is constantly monitoring the second frequency and cut in when it is modulated, hence the need to allocate a priority. ... shouldn't something similar be interesting for aviation? Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:01 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 2nd radio --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Jared, Consider changing your radio to a Garmin (formerly Apollo) SL40 comm. On this unit you can monitor the standby frequency. If there activity on the primary frequency, that will over-ride the standby. Cliff > > FLying in DC's restricted airspace requires monitoring and switching > between several frequencies. I'm wanting to incorporate a handheld > along with my tiny Microair dash intercom system? Anyone tackled that > and could a person just plug right in to the existing jacks? > > Jared > > > Rex & Jan Shaw wrote: > > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" > > > >I've noticed that "Airdale" has a bungee type main gear that has a 10.5" > >wider > >stance than the standard Kitfox main gear. They claim that it improves > >handling > >on the ground. Has anyone out there tried it? > > > >I haven't exactly tried it but the track on the spring aluminium Groves > >undercarriage that I have is also wider than the standard Kitfox bungee u/c > >and I believe my plane is less prone to ground loops because of this point. > >It's obvious that if you have a wider track it is easier to keep the C of G > >behind the main wheels. It's when you don't that she comes around. > > > >Rex > >rexjan@bigpond.com > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:12 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Three blade prop & 3:1 gearbox --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" My pleasure Robert. Gary A Lite2/582 Gary, that's great information. Thanks for your help. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// I have the 70" x 2 blade in flight adjustable prop so my pitch is variable. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:32 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: Kitfox-List: Rad scoop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" I have just fitted the Skystar rad scoop to my Lite2 / 582 and although the installation looks great it appears I now have an overheating problem. I previously had the rad lowered about 1-1/2" and the temps were perfect. To fit the rad scoop I had to mount the rad flush with the fuselage I had hoped that the shape of the scoop would be more efficient and overcome this problem but once I reached normal running temperature I didn't even have time to taxi to the strip before my temps were over 200 deg F. In flight the scoop would probably work fine but I'm not prepared to take off with temps this high. It wasn't a hot day yesterday either so if anyone has any experience with the rad scoop I would appreciate your input Gary A Lite2/582 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:40 AM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Rad scoop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" I don't have the lite, Model 5 Vixen, but same problem. The air on the ground doesn't flow enough for cooling on the ground with the radiator up close to the belly. Mine is farther back but similar situation. My final solution is going to be hopefully a well designed scoop to get rid of that big, I mean big brick under my plane and two small thermostat controlled electric fans. I tried putting streamers on a stick to check the flow and didn't detect much difference. It just physically works about 3 inches lower than the belly. My radiator almost spans the width and is 6 inches tall, quite a drag make even for a kitfox. Rick N6 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Algate Subject: Kitfox-List: Rad scoop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" I have just fitted the Skystar rad scoop to my Lite2 / 582 and although the installation looks great it appears I now have an overheating problem. I previously had the rad lowered about 1-1/2" and the temps were perfect. To fit the rad scoop I had to mount the rad flush with the fuselage I had hoped that the shape of the scoop would be more efficient and overcome this problem but once I reached normal running temperature I didn't even have time to taxi to the strip before my temps were over 200 deg F. In flight the scoop would probably work fine but I'm not prepared to take off with temps this high. It wasn't a hot day yesterday either so if anyone has any experience with the rad scoop I would appreciate your input Gary A Lite2/582 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:39 AM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net am I missing the point here? all of the "compression" load is contained in the loop from rudder arms to tail wheel arms, none is passed on to the cables/pedals. It seems to me that the problem with pedal failure is during braking (breaking) maximum pressure is applied to the cables and rudder arms and post. John Kerr, 700 hours, 2500 landings, original maule wheel -------------- Original message -------------- > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > Well said Rex and it makes a lot of sense to me. I've thought about this > previously and wondered if perhaps the compression springs could possibly > have been a factor in the many broken rudder peddle assemblies. I've always > used tension springs and have had no problems with them. One thing I did > was to close up the end hooks slightly so they couldn't pop off. However, I > still don't understand how compression springs can give better control. > Total of nearly 700 kitfox hours and none have popped off. > Darrel > > > > Those light springs in the cabin just keep the cables from flopping in > the > > case of no foot pressure on the pedals. So foot pressure and those light > > springs both contribute to cable tension. The cables between the pedals > and > > rudder horns under tension become a solid link. The rudder horns are > > connected via chains and the springs we are discussing to the tail wheel > > steering horns. Now any pressure turning or attempting to turn the tail > > wheel is applied back through the chains and discussed springs to the > rudder > > cables that will pull against foot pressure. Now excess force that is > > applied back is absorbed by those discussed springs. If the springs are > the > > original tension springs then they just stretch out more and more as more > > excess force is applied. However if one swaps those tension springs for > > compression springs they squeeze up rather than stretch out BUT can only > > squeeze until we get coil bind at which point something has to give, That > > could be the wheel resisting the force trying to turn it, your foot forced > > back on the appropriate pedal or the locking device in the tail wheel > > letting go and allowing the tail wheel to swivel. The other thing though > is > > there is more tension on the appropriate rudder cable while this is > > happening because that compression spring has closed right up to the point > > of coil bind and become a solid in effect. The original tension spring > would > > just keep stretching and even although as it does the pressure is ever > > increasing it is not like a solid the compression spring becomes. Also as > > the compression spring reaches coil bind there is a jarring moment that is > > taken in the whole line including the appropriate cable. > > The jarring moment and increased pressure applied through the cable is > my > > concern. I am not saying it is a problem. In fact I was asking if any one > > had thought about it and/or decided it was a worry or problem. > > Should a rudder cable fail during a ground roll it would probably cause a > > ground loop at the least. However if a cable failed in flight due to > > previous strain on the ground it would not be nice either and some clever > > flying at least would be needed to get out of it and a change of underwear > > if not a coffin would be called for. I suppose one could compromise with a > > hospital ! > > > > Rex. > > PS > > I do agree that the compression springs would most likely give better > > control. It's a matter of relative tensions. > > rexjan@bigpond.com > > > > > > > > > > am I missing the point here? all of the "compression" load is contained in the loop from rudder arms to tail wheel arms, none is passed on to the cables/pedals. It seems to me that the problem with pedal failure is during braking (breaking) maximum pressure is applied to the cables and rudder arms and post. John Kerr, 700 hours, 2500 landings, original maule wheel -------------- Original message -------------- -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Well said Rex and it makes a lot of sense to me. I've thought about this previously and wondered if perhaps the compression springs could possibly have been a factor in the many broken rudder peddle assemblies. I've always used tension springs and have had no problems with them. One thing I did was to close up the end hooks slightly so they couldn't pop off. However, I still don't understand how compression springs can give better control. Total of nearly 700 kitfox hours and none have popped off. Darrel Those light springs in the cabin just keep the cables from flopping in the case of no foot pressure on the pedals. So foot pressure and those light springs both contribute to cable tension. The cables between the pedals and rudder horns under tension become a solid link. The rudder horns are connected via chains and the springs we are discussing to the tail wheel steering horns. Now any pressure turning or attempting to turn the tail wheel is applied back through the chains and discussed springs to the rudder cables that will pull against foot pressure. Now excess force that is applied back is absorbed by those discussed springs. If the springs are the original tension springs then they just stretch out more and more as more excess force is applied. However if one swaps those tension springs for compression springs they squeeze up rather than stretch out BUT can only squeeze until we get coil bind at which point somet hing has to give, That could be the wheel resisting the force trying to turn it, your foot forced back on the appropriate pedal or the locking device in the tail wheel letting go and allowing the tail wheel to swivel. The other thing though is there is more tension on the appropriate rudder cable while this is happening because that compression spring has closed right up to the point of coil bind and become a solid in effect. The original tension spring would just keep stretching and even although as it does the pressure is ever increasing it is not like a solid the compression spring becomes. Also as the compression spring reaches coil bind there is a jarring moment that is taken in the whole line including the appropriate cable. The jarring moment and increased pressure applied through the cable is & gt; my concern. I am not saying it is a problem. In fact I was asking if any one had thought about it and/or decided it was a worry or problem. Should a rudder cable fail during a ground roll it would probably cause a ground loop at the least. However if a cable failed in flight due to previous strain on the ground it would not be nice either and some clever flying at least would be needed to get out of it and a change of underwear if not a coffin would be called for. I suppose one could compromise with a hospital ! Rex. PS I do agree that the compression springs would most likely give better control. It's a matter of relative tensions. rexjan@bigpond.com /chat ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:35 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" I also have been using the tension springs and have 600 hours - not quite the 700 hours Darrel has and have safety wired them per Bruce Harrington. I do wonder, though of the effects of a broken spring. I just might see what might be done to put a little piece of cable inside the spring to be used as a safety catch in the event of a spring failure. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > Well said Rex and it makes a lot of sense to me. I've thought about this > previously and wondered if perhaps the compression springs could possibly > have been a factor in the many broken rudder peddle assemblies. I've always > used tension springs and have had no problems with them. One thing I did > was to close up the end hooks slightly so they couldn't pop off. However, I > still don't understand how compression springs can give better control. > Total of nearly 700 kitfox hours and none have popped off. > Darrel > > > > Those light springs in the cabin just keep the cables from flopping in > the > > case of no foot pressure on the pedals. So foot pressure and those light > > springs both contribute to cable tension. The cables between the pedals > and > > rudder horns under tension become a solid link. The rudder horns are > > connected via chains and the springs we are discussing to the tail wheel > > steering horns. Now any pressure turning or attempting to turn the tail > > wheel is applied back through the chains and discussed springs to the > rudder > > cables that will pull against foot pressure. Now excess force that is > > applied back is absorbed by those discussed springs. If the springs are > the > > original tension springs then they just stretch out more and more as more > > excess force is applied. However if one swaps those tension springs for > > compression springs they squeeze up rather than stretch out BUT can only > > squeeze until we get coil bind at which point something has to give, That > > could be the wheel resisting the force trying to turn it, your foot forced > > back on the appropriate pedal or the locking device in the tail wheel > > letting go and allowing the tail wheel to swivel. The other thing though > is > > there is more tension on the appropriate rudder cable while this is > > happening because that compression spring has closed right up to the point > > of coil bind and become a solid in effect. The original tension spring > would > > just keep stretching and even although as it does the pressure is ever > > increasing it is not like a solid the compression spring becomes. Also as > > the compression spring reaches coil bind there is a jarring moment that is > > taken in the whole line including the appropriate cable. > > The jarring moment and increased pressure applied through the cable is > my > > concern. I am not saying it is a problem. In fact I was asking if any one > > had thought about it and/or decided it was a worry or problem. > > Should a rudder cable fail during a ground roll it would probably cause a > > ground loop at the least. However if a cable failed in flight due to > > previous strain on the ground it would not be nice either and some clever > > flying at least would be needed to get out of it and a change of underwear > > if not a coffin would be called for. I suppose one could compromise with a > > hospital ! > > > > Rex. > > PS > > I do agree that the compression springs would most likely give better > > control. It's a matter of relative tensions. > > rexjan@bigpond.com > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:15 AM PST US From: John King Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: 2nd radio --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King Jared & Michel, My Morrow GX-65 GPS/COM has that feature and works just fine. -- John King Warrenton, VA Michel Verheughe wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > >>From: jareds [jareds@verizon.net] >>FLying in DC's restricted airspace requires monitoring and switching >>between several frequencies. >> >> > >I can't answer your question, Jared, but I'd like to take the opportunity to mention that maritime VHF has a function called Dual Watch where you can listen to two channels at the same time, having one as the priority one (usually the Ch 16, Calling and Emergency Channel). The point is; you can watch two frequencies with only one receiver. The radio is constantly monitoring the second frequency and cut in when it is modulated, hence the need to allocate a priority. > >... shouldn't something similar be interesting for aviation? > >Cheers, >Michel > >do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:23 AM PST US From: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" Subject: Kitfox-List: Vortex Generators --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" A dear friend whom has an Avid Flyer on Floats was asking me to ask those whom have installed the Vortex Generators on their Kitfox about the distance from the leading edge of their respective wings . He has heard about several different conflicting placements of these and does not know of a placement on a Kitfox or Avid what so ever . Many thanks Chuck Model IV 912 Model II 582 Floats ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:45 AM PST US From: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" Subject: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox on Floats --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" I was wondering as next month I will be attending the Sea Plane Fly In held every year in Maine at Moosehead Lake . I have attended for 7 years and now will finally have the time to bring my Fox along . Since this will be about a 15 hour drive with my trailer I am curious on if there is anyone out there that has trailered their Kitfox with the Full Lotus Floats and how you would support the fuselage and tail ? Many Thanks Chuck Model IV 912 Model II 582 Floats ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:27 AM PST US From: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" Subject: Kitfox-List: Vortex Generators --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" List I just got back from the arcives and got a weath of info for my friend there . Even a nice picture of Jim Shumaker's beautiful Fox with a detailed picture of them on his lane . Chuck ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:15 AM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Kitfox-List: Hey. Chuck Worn elevator Hinge? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Hi Chuck, Sounds like your going to have fun at the Sea Plane Fly. I have a question for you. The holes in one of my elevator hinges are a little worn. (I can move the elevator up and down at the hinge 1/32" of an inch.) The rest of the hinges are okay. How worn can an elevator hinge be before being replaced? Is there a way to remove the play? Do I need to worry about flutter? Robert KF Model II 430 hours San Diego -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck & Vicki Tippett Subject: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox on Floats --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" --> I was wondering as next month I will be attending the Sea Plane Fly In held every year in Maine at Moosehead Lake . I have attended for 7 years and now will finally have the time to bring my Fox along . Since this will be about a 15 hour drive with my trailer I am curious on if there is anyone out there that has trailered their Kitfox with the Full Lotus Floats and how you would support the fuselage and tail ? Many Thanks Chuck Model IV 912 Model II 582 Floats advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:42 AM PST US From: Aerobatics@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox for sale --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com I have flown it...... it is awsome .... but it has been on the market for some time at 48k .... Like realestate, its worth what some one is willing to pay....unfortunately Ihave a KF2 and seriously concidering it..but I am out of the country (China) for about 10 days... Dave ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:02 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" good idea! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > I also have been using the tension springs and have 600 hours - not quite > the 700 hours Darrel has and have safety wired them per Bruce Harrington. I > do wonder, though of the effects of a broken spring. I just might see what > might be done to put a little piece of cable inside the spring to be used as > a safety catch in the event of a spring failure. > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fox5flyer" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > > Well said Rex and it makes a lot of sense to me. I've thought about this > > previously and wondered if perhaps the compression springs could possibly > > have been a factor in the many broken rudder peddle assemblies. I've > always > > used tension springs and have had no problems with them. One thing I did > > was to close up the end hooks slightly so they couldn't pop off. However, > I > > still don't understand how compression springs can give better control. > > Total of nearly 700 kitfox hours and none have popped off. > > Darrel > > > > > > Those light springs in the cabin just keep the cables from flopping in > > the > > > case of no foot pressure on the pedals. So foot pressure and those light > > > springs both contribute to cable tension. The cables between the pedals > > and > > > rudder horns under tension become a solid link. The rudder horns are > > > connected via chains and the springs we are discussing to the tail wheel > > > steering horns. Now any pressure turning or attempting to turn the tail > > > wheel is applied back through the chains and discussed springs to the > > rudder > > > cables that will pull against foot pressure. Now excess force that is > > > applied back is absorbed by those discussed springs. If the springs are > > the > > > original tension springs then they just stretch out more and more as > more > > > excess force is applied. However if one swaps those tension springs for > > > compression springs they squeeze up rather than stretch out BUT can only > > > squeeze until we get coil bind at which point something has to give, > That > > > could be the wheel resisting the force trying to turn it, your foot > forced > > > back on the appropriate pedal or the locking device in the tail wheel > > > letting go and allowing the tail wheel to swivel. The other thing though > > is > > > there is more tension on the appropriate rudder cable while this is > > > happening because that compression spring has closed right up to the > point > > > of coil bind and become a solid in effect. The original tension spring > > would > > > just keep stretching and even although as it does the pressure is ever > > > increasing it is not like a solid the compression spring becomes. Also > as > > > the compression spring reaches coil bind there is a jarring moment that > is > > > taken in the whole line including the appropriate cable. > > > The jarring moment and increased pressure applied through the cable is > > my > > > concern. I am not saying it is a problem. In fact I was asking if any > one > > > had thought about it and/or decided it was a worry or problem. > > > Should a rudder cable fail during a ground roll it would probably cause > a > > > ground loop at the least. However if a cable failed in flight due to > > > previous strain on the ground it would not be nice either and some > clever > > > flying at least would be needed to get out of it and a change of > underwear > > > if not a coffin would be called for. I suppose one could compromise with > a > > > hospital ! > > > > > > Rex. > > > PS > > > I do agree that the compression springs would most likely give > better > > > control. It's a matter of relative tensions. > > > rexjan@bigpond.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hinge Play Question? Please help. From: Torgeir Mortensen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen Hi Robert, Just wondering if you are talking about the elevator hinges "rod ends", supporting the elevator, or the hinges to the control surface? The latter with changeable nylon bearings. Just replace the nylon bearing, eventually check the clevis bolt for corrosion. It's best to replace the worn one, this because vibration will start to wear the other bearings. About flutter, I'll dont think such a little play will create flutter, more likely resonance can occur -then lots of wear. Well, if it's the rod end, -also replace. Regards Torgeir. On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:58:08 -0700, Harris, Robert wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" > > > The holes in one of my elevator hinges are a little worn. (I can move the > elevator up and down at the hinge 1/32" of an inch.) The rest of the > hinges > are okay. > > How worn can an elevator hinge be before being replaced? > > Is there a way to remove the play? > > Do I need to worry about flutter? > > > Robert > KF Model II 430 hours > San Diego > > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:35 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox on Floats --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Hi Chuck: Check out the www.oshkoshseaplanebase.com website photo section to see Bob Beams Model 3 on Aqua's on his trailer with the wings folded back. His set up looks pretty simple. Paul Seehafer Central Wisconsin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" Subject: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox on Floats > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" > > I was wondering as next month I will be attending the Sea Plane Fly In > held every year in Maine at Moosehead Lake . I have attended for 7 years and > now will finally have the time to bring my Fox along . Since this will be > about a 15 hour drive with my trailer I am curious on if there is anyone out > there that has trailered their Kitfox with the Full Lotus Floats and how you > would support the fuselage and tail ? > Many Thanks > Chuck > Model IV 912 > Model II 582 Floats > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:21 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vortex Generators --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Believe it or not, according to Harry Riblett, the vortex generators best placement on the early Avid or Kitfox high lift airfoil is on the underside (yeah, that's right, the bottom) of the wing a few inches behind the leading edge. Might sound bizarre, but supposedly it works. (I have a letter that documents this somewhere) I also have a friend that has an Avid Magnum he flies on floats (same airfoil) that has VG's on it (on top the wing). You could try contacting him at classpix@execpc.com if you want to see what he did. Paul Seehafer Central Wisconsin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" Subject: Kitfox-List: Vortex Generators > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" > > A dear friend whom has an Avid Flyer on Floats was asking me to ask those > whom have installed the Vortex Generators on their Kitfox about the > distance from the leading edge of their respective wings . He has heard > about several different conflicting placements of these and does not know of > a placement on a Kitfox or Avid what so ever . Many thanks > > Chuck > Model IV 912 > Model II 582 Floats > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all From: Torgeir Mortensen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen Hi John, I don't think you are. The compression spring is MUCH stiffer than the tension one, this create a much "harder" peak force in the "loop cables" during use of brake / releasing the tailwheel. The old setup is much softer and sometimes can be a little tricky to unlock -due to this softness. The stiff, compression type make the unlock much easier, and you feel more comfortable in ground handling. Well, got the compression type a year ago -but not installed anymore in my Fox, just tested. (Don't like the more peaky tension.) When operating in rough fields, I'll think this stiff spring transform more "stress" to my rudder loop linkage than the "soft" tension type. Just my opinion. Torgeir. On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:00:22 +0000, wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net > > am I missing the point here? all of the "compression" load is contained > in the loop from rudder arms to tail wheel arms, none is passed on to > the cables/pedals. It seems to me that the problem with pedal failure is > during braking (breaking) maximum pressure is applied to the cables and > rudder arms and post. > John Kerr, 700 hours, 2500 landings, original maule wheel > > -------------- Original message -------------- > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" >> >> Well said Rex and it makes a lot of sense to me. I've thought about this >> previously and wondered if perhaps the compression springs could >> possibly >> have been a factor in the many broken rudder peddle assemblies. I've >> always >> used tension springs and have had no problems with them. One thing I did >> was to close up the end hooks slightly so they couldn't pop off. >> However, I >> still don't understand how compression springs can give better control. >> Total of nearly 700 kitfox hours and none have popped off. >> Darrel >> > >> > Those light springs in the cabin just keep the cables from flopping in >> the >> > case of no foot pressure on the pedals. So foot pressure and those >> light >> > springs both contribute to cable tension. The cables between the >> pedals >> and >> > rudder horns under tension become a solid link. The rudder horns are >> > connected via chains and the springs we are discussing to the tail >> wheel >> > steering horns. Now any pressure turning or attempting to turn the >> tail >> > wheel is applied back through the chains and discussed springs to the >> rudder >> > cables that will pull against foot pressure. Now excess force that is >> > applied back is absorbed by those discussed springs. If the springs >> are >> the >> > original tension springs then they just stretch out more and more as >> more >> > excess force is applied. However if one swaps those tension springs >> for >> > compression springs they squeeze up rather than stretch out BUT can >> only >> > squeeze until we get coil bind at which point something has to give, >> That >> > could be the wheel resisting the force trying to turn it, your foot >> forced >> > back on the appropriate pedal or the locking device in the tail wheel >> > letting go and allowing the tail wheel to swivel. The other thing >> though >> is >> > there is more tension on the appropriate rudder cable while this is >> > happening because that compression spring has closed right up to the >> point >> > of coil bind and become a solid in effect. The original tension spring >> would >> > just keep stretching and even although as it does the pressure is ever >> > increasing it is not like a solid the compression spring becomes. >> Also as >> > the compression spring reaches coil bind there is a jarring moment >> that is >> > taken in the whole line including the appropriate cable. >> > The jarring moment and increased pressure applied through the cable is >> my >> > concern. I am not saying it is a problem. In fact I was asking if any >> one >> > had thought about it and/or decided it was a worry or problem. >> > Should a rudder cable fail during a ground roll it would probably >> cause a >> > ground loop at the least. However if a cable failed in flight due to >> > previous strain on the ground it would not be nice either and some >> clever >> > flying at least would be needed to get out of it and a change of >> underwear >> > if not a coffin would be called for. I suppose one could compromise >> with a >> > hospital ! >> > >> > Rex. >> > PS >> > I do agree that the compression springs would most likely give better >> > control. It's a matter of relative tensions. >> > rexjan@bigpond.com >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > am I missing the point here? all of the "compression" load is contained > in the loop from rudder arms to tail wheel arms, none is passed on to > the cables/pedals. It seems to me that the problem with pedal failure is > during braking (breaking) maximum pressure is applied to the cables and > rudder arms and post. > > > John Kerr, 700 hours, 2500 landings, original maule wheel > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > > > Well said Rex and it makes a lot of sense to me. I've thought about this > previously and wondered if perhaps the compression springs could > possibly > have been a factor in the many broken rudder peddle assemblies. I've > always > used tension springs and have had no problems with them. One thing I did > was to close up the end hooks slightly so they couldn't pop off. > However, I > still don't understand how compression springs can give better control. > Total of nearly 700 kitfox hours and none have popped off. > Darrel > > Those light springs in the cabin just keep the cables from flopping in > the > case of no foot pressure on the pedals. So foot > pressure and those light > springs both contribute to cable tension. The cables between the pedals > and > rudder horns under tension become a solid link. The rudder horns are > connected via chains and the springs we are discussing to the tail > wheel > steering horns. Now any pressure turning or attempting to turn the tail > wheel is applied back through the chains and discussed springs to the > rudder > cables that will pull against foot pressure. Now excess force that is > applied back is absorbed by those discussed springs. If the springs are > the > original tension springs then they just stretch out more and more as > more > excess force is applied. However if one swaps those tension springs for > compression springs they squeeze up rather than stretch out BUT can > only > squeeze until we get coil bind at which point somet > hing has to give, That > could be the wheel resisting the force trying to turn it, your foot > forced > back on the appropriate pedal or the locking device in the tail wheel > letting go and allowing the tail wheel to swivel. The other thing > though > is > there is more tension on the appropriate rudder cable while this is > happening because that compression spring has closed right up to the > point > of coil bind and become a solid in effect. The original tension spring > would > just keep stretching and even although as it does the pressure is ever > increasing it is not like a solid the compression spring becomes. Also > as > the compression spring reaches coil bind there is a jarring moment > that is > taken in the whole line including the appropriate cable. > The jarring moment and increased pressure applied through the cable is > & > gt; my > concern. I am not saying it is a problem. In fact I was asking if any > one > had thought about it and/or decided it was a worry or problem. > Should a rudder cable fail during a ground roll it would probably > cause a > ground loop at the least. However if a cable failed in flight due to > previous strain on the ground it would not be nice either and some > clever > flying at least would be needed to get out of it and a change of > underwear > if not a coffin would be called for. I suppose one could compromise > with a > hospital ! > > Rex. > PS > I do agree that the compression springs would most likely give better > control. It's a matter of relative tensions. > rexjan@bigpond.com > > > /chat > > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:57 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: 2nd radio --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe John King wrote: > My Morrow GX-65 GPS/COM has that feature and works just fine. Thanks John. I understood that it existed for aviation when I read Cliff's message just a few minutes after I posted mine. So, Dual Watch exists also in aviation. When I grow up, I'll put one like that in my plane! :-) While on the subject of radio, why is it that aviation is still using amplitude modulated VHF? When I compare with the maritime VHF that is frequency modulate, I see the big advantage of the latter, much less interference. Of course, the FM mode is also more selective, a bad signal will be unheard or by intermittance. Just wondering. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:19:24 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox on Floats --> Kitfox-List message posted by: btw. The picture your are looking for is in the last section of photo pages for 2003. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox on Floats > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > > Hi Chuck: > > Check out the www.oshkoshseaplanebase.com website photo section to see Bob > Beams Model 3 on Aqua's on his trailer with the wings folded back. His set > up looks pretty simple. > > Paul Seehafer > Central Wisconsin > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" > To: > Subject: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox on Floats > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" > > > > > I was wondering as next month I will be attending the Sea Plane Fly In > > held every year in Maine at Moosehead Lake . I have attended for 7 years > and > > now will finally have the time to bring my Fox along . Since this will be > > about a 15 hour drive with my trailer I am curious on if there is anyone > out > > there that has trailered their Kitfox with the Full Lotus Floats and how > you > > would support the fuselage and tail ? > > Many Thanks > > Chuck > > Model IV 912 > > Model II 582 Floats > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:40 PM PST US From: John King Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: I think it won't effect your rudder cables at all --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King Darrel, My Model IV always had tension springs and it had the problem of rudder peddle fracture. So I am not sure that it was a function of the type of rudder to tail wheel springs used. When I was building my Series 6 SkyStar was having trouble delivering tail wheel assemblies. So I ordered my Maul 8" inflatable tail wheel assembly directly from Aircraft Spruce. It came with two each of both compression and tension springs. Do not archive. -- John King Warrenton, VA Fox5flyer wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" > >Well said Rex and it makes a lot of sense to me. I've thought about this >previously and wondered if perhaps the compression springs could possibly >have been a factor in the many broken rudder peddle assemblies. I've always >used tension springs and have had no problems with them. One thing I did >was to close up the end hooks slightly so they couldn't pop off. However, I >still don't understand how compression springs can give better control. >Total of nearly 700 kitfox hours and none have popped off. >Darrel > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:04 PM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Thank You.RE: Kitfox-List: Hinge Play Question? Please help. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Oh, Thanks Torgeir. That is great news. My hinges to the control surface are worn. I thought I was going to have to tear my elevator fabric off to replace my hinge. I'll look for some nylon bearings. Maybe Aircraft Spruce or Skystar sell them. Robert -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Torgeir Mortensen Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hinge Play Question? Please help. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen Hi Robert, Just wondering if you are talking about the elevator hinges "rod ends", supporting the elevator, or the hinges to the control surface? The latter with changeable nylon bearings. Just replace the nylon bearing, eventually check the clevis bolt for corrosion. It's best to replace the worn one, this because vibration will start to wear the other bearings. About flutter, I'll dont think such a little play will create flutter, more likely resonance can occur -then lots of wear. Well, if it's the rod end, -also replace. Regards Torgeir. On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:58:08 -0700, Harris, Robert wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" > > > The holes in one of my elevator hinges are a little worn. (I can move the > elevator up and down at the hinge 1/32" of an inch.) The rest of the > hinges > are okay. > > How worn can an elevator hinge be before being replaced? > > Is there a way to remove the play? > > Do I need to worry about flutter? > > > Robert > KF Model II 430 hours > San Diego > > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:57 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Question: Is the Sport Pilot addition going to increase the value of our Kitfox? Is the number of new pilots going to increase dramatically because of Sport Pilot? Opinion: I don't know about the value of our Kitfox but, I don't believe Sport Pilot is going to flood the market with new pilots. I ask this because I'm considering selling my Fox. What's your opinion? Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:22 PM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: FYI Fuelube --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" This came up on a search. The conclusion seems to say "don't use the stuff on moving parts that use o-rings. Darrel NTSB Identification: LAX91LA150 . The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number 45273. 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Saturday, March 30, 1991 in HILT, CA Probable Cause Approval Date: 4/8/1993 Aircraft: BEECH A35, registration: N584B Injuries: 1 Uninjured. A SEALANT BY THE NAME OF 'FUELUBE' WAS SUBSTITUTED FOR A LUBRICANT FOR THE 'O' RINGS SEALS IN THE FUEL SELECTOR/MANUAL FUEL PUMP DURING MAINTENANCE. THE PILOT STATED THAT 10 OPERATIONAL HOURS AFTER THE APPLICATION OF 'FUELUBE' HE EXPERIENCED BINDING IN THE FUEL SELECTOR WHEN HE ATTEMPTED TO CHANGE TANKS AND THE HE WAS UNABLE TO FEEL THE DETENT POSITION. HE ATTEMPTED TO CHANGED FUEL TANK WHILE ON ACROSS COUNTRY FLIGHT AND THE ENGINE FAILED FROM FUEL STARVATION. HE EXECUTED A FORCED LANDING TO AN OPEN, ROCK STREWN, FIELD THAT IMPARTED SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGED TO THE AIRCRAFT DURING TOUCH DOWN. The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows: THE APPLICATION OF A SEALANT INSTEAD OF A LUBRICANT TO THE INTERNAL 'O' RINGS SEALS IN THE FUEL SELECTOR BY MAINTENANCE PERSONNEL. FACTORS CONTRIBUTING TO THE ACCIDENT WERE THE PILOT'S INABILITY TO SELECT A FUEL SOURCE AND FUEL STARVATION THAT RESULTED IN AN ENGINE FAILURE. ROUGH TERRAIN AT THE LANDING SITE WAS ALSO A FACTOR IN THE ACCIDENT. Index for Mar1991 | Index of months ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:37 PM PST US From: "neflyer48" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 plug wires --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "neflyer48" I replaced all the spark plug caps on my 912. They originally had the old aircraft screw-on type caps. I had to change them to use the cheaper NKG plugs. I got them from Lockwood Aviation. Jerry Kohles M3-912 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Shiple" Subject: Kitfox-List: 912 plug wires > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple > > A friend with a newly completed Zenair 701/912 had two spark plug caps burned by the heat shield on the exhaust header- much less room under that cowl than we see. He's re-routed the exhaust, but needs to replace the caps. Does anyone know if the spark plug wire can be separated at the cap or will he need to replace the cap and wire back to the ignition module as a single unit? The Rotax catalogue does not list a separate spark plug cap. > Fred > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:11 PM PST US From: "RICHARD HUTSON" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RICHARD HUTSON" Don, I personally do not believe it will increase the value. Value or sale price, is what ever the buyer is willing to pay. Also consider the large number of new planes that will be entering the market as LSA's. If you decide to sale, I hope you get the price your asking. However the seller in most cases thinks his product is worth more than what the buyer is willing to pay. Just like trading cars, you always think your trade in is worth more than the dealership is will to give for it. > Question: Is the Sport Pilot addition going to increase the value of our > Kitfox? Is the number of new pilots going to increase dramatically because of > Sport Pilot? Opinion: I don't know about the value of our Kitfox but, I don't believe > Sport Pilot is going to flood the market with new pilots. > I ask this because I'm considering selling my Fox. What's your opinion? > Don Smythe > DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:51 PM PST US From: BrownTool@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Adv. - Surplus Aircraft Tools from BrownTool - Adv. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: BrownTool@aol.com This is an ADVERTISEMENT - DO NOT ARCHIVE =A0 Just a quick message to let all of our=A0Kit Built Aircraft=A0customers know we have just received a large shipment of surplus-used aircraft tools from a major airframe manufacturer=A0including: 90 Degree Threaded Drill Motors, Sealant Guns, and Drill Attachments - complete descriptions, pictures, and pricing are available on our website at:=A0=A0=A0=A0 www.browntool.com =A0 This is a great opportunity to purchase high quality, industrial grade aircraft tools at a fraction of their new cost. =A0 We are also featuring our brand new Hi-Force Pneumatic "C" Rivet Squeezer complete with 1-1/2" Jaw=A0for only $479.95 =A0 Thanks for your indulgence. =A0 Michael Brown Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. 3801 S. Meridian Ave. Oklahoma City, OK 73119 =A0 1-800-587-3883 405-688-6888 =A0 DO NOT ARCHIVE =A0 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:41 PM PST US From: "Marc Arseneault" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" Don, I thinkwe should allstand our ground and not give our Kitfox's away. I personnaly believe that when someone builds there plane, theyshould be compensated for there time and effort and not have to take a loss if he decides to sell especiallywhen he hasminimal hours on the plane.Makes no sense to me! We as the owners are the ones setting these prices. When I see a fairlynewKitfoxlisted at the prices they have been listingfor it just .......... I am presently selling one of my Kitfox's Model IV and this is why I have such a strong opinion on Kitfox prices and for people who are willing to give them away and set the prices so low. Just my opinion! Best Regards, Marc Arseneault Ontario Canada From: "RICHARD HUTSON" rhutson@midsouth.rr.com Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:24:56 -0500 -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "RICHARD HUTSON" rhutson@midsouth.rr.com Don, I personally do not believe it will increase the value. Value or sale price, is what ever the buyer is willing to pay. Also consider the large number of new planes that will be entering the market as LSA's. If you decide to sale, I hope you get the price your asking. However the seller in most cases thinks his product is worth more than what the buyer is willing to pay. Just like trading cars, you always think your trade in is worth more than the dealership is will to give for it. Question: Is the Sport Pilot addition going to increase the value of our Kitfox? Is the nu Share a single photo or an entire slide show right inside your e-mail with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:15 PM PST US From: "Bruce Harrington" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" Hi Don, I sure hope you are not giving up flying. You have to have something exciting and fun to do to make for a good life! I think there will be an increase in Sport Pilots by some of our generations, and also some younger people. So there may be an increase in the value of our a/c. Please don't make me sad! Regards, bh > Question: Is the Sport Pilot addition going to increase the value of our > Kitfox? Is the number of new pilots going to increase dramatically because of > Sport Pilot? > > Opinion: I don't know about the value of our Kitfox but, I don't believe > Sport Pilot is going to flood the market with new pilots. > > I ask this because I'm considering selling my Fox. What's your opinion? > > Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:46 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" Yes I believe that the new Sport Pilot rule wil; re-vitalize Sport Aviation in this country. Yes, our aircraft are more valuable...we're already seeing a surge int eh marketplace and a faster turnover rate in the aircraft that are placed on the market for sale. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > Question: Is the Sport Pilot addition going to increase the value of our > Kitfox? Is the number of new pilots going to increase dramatically because of > Sport Pilot? > > Opinion: I don't know about the value of our Kitfox but, I don't believe > Sport Pilot is going to flood the market with new pilots. > > I ask this because I'm considering selling my Fox. What's your opinion? > > Don Smythe > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:58 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Don, I do believe the Sport Pilot will help hold the line as far as value is concerned. It may increase slightly. Basic rule is supply and demand and the buyer will look at the price first.. won't consider the differences... eg. 503 vs 912S. I feel that Sport Pilot will help GA aviation significantly but I do not see a flooding of new pilots. I see Ultralighters getting licensed and the existing older pilot base starting to fly again. I haven't seen any advertising outside the GA materials.. and most of those are read by pilots already. Blue Skies John & Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Question: Is the Sport Pilot addition going to increase the value of our Kitfox? Is the number of new pilots going to increase dramatically because of Sport Pilot? Opinion: I don't know about the value of our Kitfox but, I don't believe Sport Pilot is going to flood the market with new pilots. I ask this because I'm considering selling my Fox. What's your opinion? Don Smythe ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:27 PM PST US From: "Comp User" Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Ignition pickup --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" I have lost the left side pickup on my NSI Turbo. Has about 6 hrs. on it. Has anyone had this problem? I pulled the gearbox off. (Seal was leaking again anyway). Gave it a magnifying glass inspection. No damage. Cut the wires at the pickup to make sure I did not have a broken wire or a plug problem. It is without a doubt open. It looks like I have to find the whole mount with both pickups in it. They look pretty well glued in. It died on start of takeoff roll. The tach got erratic then did a couple of bounces then nothing. Pulled the throttle, let the tail settle and back home. Any input would be great. Albert Smith Grounded 5TD ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:08:20 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Ignition pickup --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" So the ignition sensor mount you have does not have pinch screws for the pick ups? I had one fail. However mine was a simple matter of just replacing the defective sensor. Switch the pick up connector to isolate the component. Shut down the side that was bad. If she stars then you know its not the sensor. If she doent it get more complicated. Rick N6 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Comp User Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Ignition pickup --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" I have lost the left side pickup on my NSI Turbo. Has about 6 hrs. on it. Has anyone had this problem? I pulled the gearbox off. (Seal was leaking again anyway). Gave it a magnifying glass inspection. No damage. Cut the wires at the pickup to make sure I did not have a broken wire or a plug problem. It is without a doubt open. It looks like I have to find the whole mount with both pickups in it. They look pretty well glued in. It died on start of takeoff roll. The tach got erratic then did a couple of bounces then nothing. Pulled the throttle, let the tail settle and back home. Any input would be great. Albert Smith Grounded 5TD ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:03 PM PST US From: "jimshumaker" Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: 2nd radio --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" Michel My understanding of the use of AM in aviation has to do with the fact that the airplane nearest the airport will have the greatest power (due to the cube of the distance rule in radio wave radiation) and will then override transmissions from aircraft that are further away. Obviously we have the opposite problem from marine applications. Boats are always low to the earth and need all the distance they can get from the radio. Aircraft are sometimes high and can interfere with transmissions at many airports. With AM the airplane 5 miles out from the airport will override the transmission from the airplane 15 miles away, even if the closer airplanes radio is not as powerful or is working poorly. Jim Shumaker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: 2nd radio > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > John King wrote: > > My Morrow GX-65 GPS/COM has that feature and works just fine. > > Thanks John. I understood that it existed for aviation when I read Cliff's > message just a few minutes after I posted mine. So, Dual Watch exists also in > aviation. When I grow up, I'll put one like that in my plane! :-) > > While on the subject of radio, why is it that aviation is still using amplitude > modulated VHF? When I compare with the maritime VHF that is frequency modulate, > I see the big advantage of the latter, much less interference. Of course, the > FM mode is also more selective, a bad signal will be unheard or by intermittance. > > Just wondering. > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:15 PM PST US From: "jimshumaker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vortex Generators --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" Chuck I am impressed that you were able to find what you wanted in the archives. Hope it answers your questions. Jim Shumaker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" Subject: Kitfox-List: Vortex Generators > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" > > A dear friend whom has an Avid Flyer on Floats was asking me to ask those > whom have installed the Vortex Generators on their Kitfox about the > distance from the leading edge of their respective wings . He has heard > about several different conflicting placements of these and does not know of > a placement on a Kitfox or Avid what so ever . Many thanks > > Chuck > Model IV 912 > Model II 582 Floats > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:58 PM PST US From: "Comp User" Subject: Re: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Ignition pickup --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" It looks like they are epoxied into the mount. Any idea why they go bad? No moving parts inside. Is there a number of the sensor or did you get yours from NSI? Thanks Albert ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:52 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Ignition pickup --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Hi Albert, Yes, my left P/U quit too. I got a new one from the manufacturer and replaced just the one P/U. He wants the old one back to troubleshoot his design and make improvements. I believe NSI gave me the contact info. Make sure you install it with the same clearance. Mine is a little off and the left ignition is just a little weaker because of it. It only shows up when the engine is cold. Once warmed up, I see no difference left, right, or both. :-) Like you, I cut the wires to try and find the break. No luck. It was internal. The P/U's are so simple, I don't know why they should fail, but it happens. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Comp User wrote: > I have lost the left side pickup on my NSI Turbo. > Has about 6 hrs. on it. Has anyone had this problem? > I pulled the gearbox off. (Seal was leaking again > anyway). Gave it a magnifying glass inspection. No > damage. Cut the wires at the pickup to make sure I > did not have a broken wire or a plug problem. It is > without a doubt open. It looks like I have to find > the whole mount with both pickups in it. They look > pretty well glued in. It died on start of takeoff > roll. The tach got erratic then did a couple of > bounces then nothing. Pulled the throttle, let the > tail settle and back home. Any input would be great. > Albert Smith > Grounded 5TD _______________________________ ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:02 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 2nd radio --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Hey Jared, I didn't see any direct answers to your question yet??? Other than replacing your radio.... So I "think" the answer is likely YES, you should be able to plug the headset output from the hand held into the intercom input, but you should talk to Micorair to confirm. I think they will say it works just like the dash radio, or your CD player, etc. I am just guessing, but they will give the solid answer. It should only cost you a cord. Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- jareds wrote: > Flying in DC's restricted airspace requires > monitoring and switching between several frequencies. > I'm wanting to incorporate a handheld > along with my tiny Microair dash intercom system? > Anyone tackled that and could a person just plug > right in to the existing jacks? > > Jared __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:02 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox for sale --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader I agree entirely. I have been telling everyone I come across, especially A&P's who don't need to worry about the Repairman's Certificate. This is a steal and with excellent workmanship. A showpiece! Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo --- Clifford Begnaud wrote: > No kidding folks, this is the deal of a lifetime. > I've been closely watching the used kitfox market > for the last 5-6 years and in that time have > purchased 3, that's right 3, model 5 kitfoxes. So I > hope you understand that what I say here has some > research behind it. > Best Regards, > Cliff > Erie, CO > Kitfox 5 Lycoming 0-235-1/2 > p.s.-heck, this plane was a good deal at the $48,000 > they were asking on > their web site. I'll bet they have $55k+ invested in > it. > > > That is awesome deal on a great airplane. > > > Ok guys, > > I just got word that the engine for my F1 project > will ship the end of > Sept. I REALLY need to sell N24ZM. $35,000 or best > offer. Pics and info at > www.aero-kids.com. > > > > -- > > Danny Melnik > > F1 #25 > > Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory _______________________________