---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/25/04: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:30 AM - SV: Question and Opinion (Michel Verheughe) 2. 01:56 AM - 582 cooling (broschart) 3. 03:54 AM - Re: Question and Opinion "on value of the kit plane" (Ceashman@aol.com) 4. 04:19 AM - Re: NSI Ignition pickup (Fox5flyer) 5. 04:26 AM - Re: Question and Opinion "on value of the kit plane" (r.thomas@za.pwc.com) 6. 05:21 AM - Re: Question and Opinion "on value of the kit plane" (VFT@aol.com) 7. 06:38 AM - Re: Thank You.Re: Hinge Play Question? Please help. (Lowell Fitt) 8. 06:38 AM - Re: 912 plug wires (Fred Shiple) 9. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: NSI Ignition pickup (Rick) 10. 06:57 AM - Re: Question and Opinion (Lowell Fitt) 11. 07:00 AM - Re: Question and Opinion "on value of the kit plane" (Rick) 12. 07:13 AM - Re: Question and Opinion (Rick) 13. 07:56 AM - FW: Kitfox tires (Don Pearsall) 14. 07:57 AM - Re: Thank You.Re: Hinge Play Question? Please (Harris, Robert) 15. 08:23 AM - Re: 582 cooling (Bruce Harrington) 16. 08:35 AM - Re: Question and Opinion () 17. 09:29 AM - Re: Question and Opinion (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 18. 10:36 AM - [Off-topic] FM vs. AM (Michel Verheughe) 19. 10:41 AM - Re: Question and Opinion (Michel Verheughe) 20. 11:48 AM - Re: FW: Kitfox tires (Jay Fabian) 21. 12:51 PM - Re: Vortex Generators (Don) 22. 01:06 PM - Re: FW: Kitfox tires (Don Pearsall) 23. 01:09 PM - Re: FW: Kitfox tires (Lowell Fitt) 24. 01:22 PM - Re: [Off-topic] FM vs. AM (Lowell Fitt) 25. 01:32 PM - Re: FW: Kitfox tires (Don Pearsall) 26. 02:09 PM - Re: 2nd radio (jareds) 27. 02:59 PM - Re: [Off-topic] FM vs. AM (Michel Verheughe) 28. 03:08 PM - am I missing the point here? (Rex & Jan Shaw) 29. 03:08 PM - A friend with a newly completed Zenair 701/912 had two spark plug caps (Rex & Jan Shaw) 30. 06:08 PM - Re: A friend with a newly completed Zenair 701/912 had two spark plug caps (Fred Shiple) 31. 09:25 PM - Re: [Off-topic] FM vs. AM (kurt schrader) 32. 09:37 PM - Re: Question and Opinion (Ceashman@aol.com) 33. 10:10 PM - Re: [Off-topic] FM vs. AM (jimshumaker) 34. 10:40 PM - Re: [Off-topic] FM vs. AM (kurt schrader) 35. 11:17 PM - Re: Question and Opinion (Steve Cooper) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:30:43 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Don wrote: > Is the Sport Pilot addition going to increase the value of our Kitfox? Here is my opinion, Don: While Norway is the most expensive country in Europe, it is not true for second-hand small boats. Why is that? Because no other European countrie has so many small boats per inhabitant (many Norwegians still need to cross a fjord or a lake to get to the nearest shop or school). This creates a big second-hand market. The bigger the market, the more competitive it is, and prices are moderate. I think few countries have as many pilots per inhabitant as the US. The logic would say that second-hand aircraft prices are low in the US. If the number of pilots and aircraft increase with the Sport Pilot license, the market will keep low prices and our Kitfoxes won't increase in value. That's my humble opinion. Disclaimer: I may be comparing oranges and apples and be completely out of focus, here. But when someone asks my opinion, I can't resist giving it! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:08 AM PST US From: broschart Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 cooling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: broschart i always couldn't fly in july if the temperature got above 90F do to over heating of the 582 engine on my mod 4 last year i changed to a leaf #R5290 24 inch radiator and this summer with a 160 thermostat i never had the temperature go above 160F even at full power although this year the july temperature wasn't above 90F, from the way it has worked i'm sure the over heating problem is solved i also changed from a gsc to a power fin prop at the same time but doubt if that is the reason the heating problem is fixed Have a good day - Charlie ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:39 AM PST US From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion "on value of the kit plane" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com Hello guys. This is one opinion. Your at the airshow/fly in, there are two Kitfox model 5 of the same year and with the same motor on the grass. You do not notice the owners (lunch time) so you feel a little more relaxed to look around "no touch" but unhindered. You, of course, will make a comparison of the construction of the two aircraft. One, you notice the instrument panel, and one or two instruments are not pointing to twelve o'clock. You know, slightly lopsided, And maybe the panel is covered with a contact film that is wood grain and it is shrinking back because of the warm temperature. Looking at the taping job on the fabric you notice that the tape has some waves and here and that the pinked edges are standing up like little soldiers. You can see that the builder has had a little problem when fitting the engine cowl, not quite square and the prop hub doesn't look centered. By the way, the other aircraft. You look over and ask yourself "why didn't I do something like this" or I should have spent a little more time doing something and I would have got my, whateveritis to look like that. I think we have all seen something like this. The question is, which aircraft is worth more money? Today, on the grass, together, with an educated eye (you) No doubt, you would pay more money for the jewel of a plane! But when the person wants to sell that excellent craft at some other date! His competition is the builder who did build the airplane in less than Skystar's suggested build time, and has little regard to his quality (or lack off) or probably know that it was a slap happy construction job. He is probably going to ask far less money when he wants to sell. Now lets consider the general public. Someone who has not even considered building an aircraft. Doesn't know what a quality job looks like. But is on the look out for a Kitfox. He reads in the aircraft trader that two Model 5, s are for sale, by all accounts they are identical. One is going for $32,000 and the other for $45,000. I think the chances are, that the he will purchase the lower priced aircraft (why not, it is certified as airworthy)! and he does not have an educated eye. I think this has a lot to do with the low price we ask for our airplanes. Another way to put it. You move into a home in a $200,000 neighborhood. after a year, you do some major alterations and landscaping a couple of years you want to sell. You know you will loose a lot of money. It was not an investment! My ideas only. Eric. Classic IV. Atlanta e-mail; ceashman@aol.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:09 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI Ignition pickup --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" I had a problem with mine that lead me to believe the pickup was bad. I talked to Lance and he said that he had a batch that had some bad ones in it and I may have received one of them. Even though they have no moving parts they have very small wires in them and occasionally one may fracture. I purchased a complete assembly, installed it and found the problem was still there. It ended up being the spark plugs. Those pickups aren't cheap so before you plop your money down make sure that the pickup is actually bad. Darrel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Comp User" Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI Ignition pickup > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" > > I have lost the left side pickup on my NSI Turbo. Has about 6 hrs. on it. Has anyone had this problem? I pulled the gearbox off. (Seal was leaking again anyway). Gave it a magnifying glass inspection. No damage. Cut the wires at the pickup to make sure I did not have a broken wire or a plug problem. It is without a doubt open. It looks like I have to find the whole mount with both pickups in it. They look pretty well glued in. It died on start of takeoff roll. The tach got erratic then did a couple of bounces then nothing. Pulled the throttle, let the tail settle and back home. Any input would be great. > Albert Smith > Grounded 5TD > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion "on value of the kit plane" From: r.thomas@za.pwc.com 25/08/2004 12:26:14, Serialize complete at 25/08/2004 12:26:14 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: r.thomas@za.pwc.com To add to Eric's scenario, one also needs to remember that there may be more people with $32k available to spend on a recreation, than what there are with $40k available, thus concluding that the cheaper ones will move faster than more expensive ones. Ceashman@aol.com Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 25/08/2004 12:53 PM Please respond to kitfox-list@matronics.com To kitfox-list@matronics.com cc Subject Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion "on value of the kit plane" Size: 6 Kb --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com Hello guys. This is one opinion. Your at the airshow/fly in, there are two Kitfox model 5 of the same year and with the same motor on the grass. You do not notice the owners (lunch time) so you feel a little more relaxed to look around "no touch" but unhindered. You, of course, will make a comparison of the construction of the two aircraft. One, you notice the instrument panel, and one or two instruments are not pointing to twelve o'clock. You know, slightly lopsided, And maybe the panel is covered with a contact film that is wood grain and it is shrinking back because of the warm temperature. Looking at the taping job on the fabric you notice that the tape has some waves and here and that the pinked edges are standing up like little soldiers. You can see that the builder has had a little problem when fitting the engine cowl, not quite square and the prop hub doesn't look centered. By the way, the other aircraft. You look over and ask yourself "why didn't I do something like this" or I should have spent a little more time doing something and I would have got my, whateveritis to look like that. I think we have all seen something like this. The question is, which aircraft is worth more money? Today, on the grass, together, with an educated eye (you) No doubt, you would pay more money for the jewel of a plane! But when the person wants to sell that excellent craft at some other date! His competition is the builder who did build the airplane in less than Skystar's suggested build time, and has little regard to his quality (or lack off) or probably know that it was a slap happy construction job. He is probably going to ask far less money when he wants to sell. Now lets consider the general public. Someone who has not even considered building an aircraft. Doesn't know what a quality job looks like. But is on the look out for a Kitfox. He reads in the aircraft trader that two Model 5, s are for sale, by all accounts they are identical. One is going for $32,000 and the other for $45,000. I think the chances are, that the he will purchase the lower priced aircraft (why not, it is certified as airworthy)! and he does not have an educated eye. I think this has a lot to do with the low price we ask for our airplanes. Another way to put it. You move into a home in a $200,000 neighborhood. after a year, you do some major alterations and landscaping a couple of years you want to sell. You know you will loose a lot of money. It was not an investment! My ideas only. Eric. Classic IV. Atlanta e-mail; ceashman@aol.com The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:05 AM PST US From: VFT@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion "on value of the kit plane" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: VFT@aol.com Sport Pilot has in my opinion reduced the value of my aircraft. In the time that N24ZM has been for sale I could have sold it 10 times for a lot more than I'm asking now if it could have qualified as a LSA. -- Danny Melnik F1 #25 Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:37 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Thank You.RE: Kitfox-List: Hinge Play Question? Please help. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Robert, I don't think the hinge liners is actually Nylon, but rather cut lengths of Polyethylene tubing found easily at hardware stores. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harris, Robert" Subject: Thank You.RE: Kitfox-List: Hinge Play Question? Please help. > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" > > Oh, Thanks Torgeir. That is great news. My hinges to the control surface are > worn. I thought I was going to have to tear my elevator fabric off to > replace my hinge. > > I'll look for some nylon bearings. Maybe Aircraft Spruce or Skystar sell > them. > > Robert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Torgeir > Mortensen > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hinge Play Question? Please help. > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen > > Hi Robert, > > > Just wondering if you are talking about the elevator hinges "rod ends", > supporting the elevator, or the hinges to the control surface? The latter > with changeable nylon bearings. > > Just replace the nylon bearing, eventually check the clevis bolt for > corrosion. It's best to replace the worn one, this because vibration will > start to wear the other bearings. > > About flutter, I'll dont think such a little play will create flutter, > more likely resonance can occur -then lots of wear. > > Well, if it's the rod end, -also replace. > > Regards > > Torgeir. > > > On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:58:08 -0700, Harris, Robert > wrote: > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" > > > > > > The holes in one of my elevator hinges are a little worn. (I can move the > > elevator up and down at the hinge 1/32" of an inch.) The rest of the > > hinges > > are okay. > > > > How worn can an elevator hinge be before being replaced? > > > > Is there a way to remove the play? > > > > Do I need to worry about flutter? > > > > > > Robert > > KF Model II 430 hours > > San Diego > > > > > > > -- > Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:41 AM PST US From: Fred Shiple Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 plug wires --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple Thanks, Jerry. Looks like they are the only source. Fred do not archive I replaced all the spark plug caps on my 912. They originally had the old ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:19 AM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Ignition pickup --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" I got mine from NSI. I bet if you set it back they would give you credit towards a new mount and maybe even replace it free. Six hours is not much time. They can fail for many reasons, vibration is one. They can fail only when hot or cold or at a certain harmonic. At least your not chasing a ghost. Rick N6 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Comp User Subject: Re: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI Ignition pickup --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" It looks like they are epoxied into the mount. Any idea why they go bad? No moving parts inside. Is there a number of the sensor or did you get yours from NSI? Thanks Albert ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:36 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Don, My thoughts are initially like Bruce's. Hope this simply means a new project and not retiring form Kitfox. There have been good posts regarding prices, I don't think I can offer anything new. Lowell. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > Question: Is the Sport Pilot addition going to increase the value of our > Kitfox? Is the number of new pilots going to increase dramatically because of > Sport Pilot? > > Opinion: I don't know about the value of our Kitfox but, I don't believe > Sport Pilot is going to flood the market with new pilots. > > I ask this because I'm considering selling my Fox. What's your opinion? > > Don Smythe > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:19 AM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion "on value of the kit plane" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" I am 53 and have always been amused how people will try to haggle the price of an item, for me usually a car, over the phone. In the case of the aircraft it couldn't be more true and something that require one on one shopping. The sad part is experimental rarely go for one what they are worth and never for what it is worth to the builder. To lighten things up next time someone calls on the plane and makes a low offer, in this case I think the asking was 38K, say something like OK 48K. The buyer will almost always counter by saying you were only asking 38, to which you reply OK then 38 it is, will you be flying it home or shall we arrange for delivery? :) Rick N6 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion "on value of the kit plane" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com Hello guys. This is one opinion. Your at the airshow/fly in, there are two Kitfox model 5 of the same year and with the same motor on the grass. e-mail; ceashman@aol.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:06 AM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" Michael I think you have it backwards. As demand increases, more potential pilots, there is nothing that is increasing the number of aircraft. As more pilot become available they will be competing for the same aircraft in the market. As demand increases and supply remains constant the price of a given item will increase to equalize the market. IMHO the planes we have now will increase in value. The unknown is how much and when. Apples and oranges work well as long as everyone want an apple and and orange. It is an investment but one of learning, fun, excitement, friendships and if you get lucky you break even in the end and have at least one good friend left. Rick N6 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Don wrote: > Is the Sport Pilot addition going to increase the value of our Kitfox? Here is my opinion, Don: While Norway is the most expensive country in Europe, it is not true for second-hand small boats. Why is that? Because no other European countrie has so many small boats per inhabitant (many Norwegians still need to cross a fjord or a lake to get to the nearest shop or school). This creates a big second-hand market. The bigger the market, the more competitive it is, and prices are moderate. I think few countries have as many pilots per inhabitant as the US. The logic would say that second-hand aircraft prices are low in the US. If the number of pilots and aircraft increase with the Sport Pilot license, the market will keep low prices and our Kitfoxes won't increase in value. That's my humble opinion. Disclaimer: I may be comparing oranges and apples and be completely out of focus, here. But when someone asks my opinion, I can't resist giving it! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:40 AM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: Kitfox-List: FW: Kitfox tires --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Does anyone have a source for the tires that Arved needs (see below)? Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: Arved von Glass [mailto:avon_glass@web.de] Subject: Kitfox tires Dear Don, I'd be very glad if you could link me to somebody who sells balloon tires for the kitfox classic. I had a pair from a taiwanese company (Heng Shin) but apparently they don't exist anymore. Best Regards, Arved Aufnehmen, abschicken, nah sein - So einfach ist WEB.DE Video-Mail: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021200 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:20 AM PST US From: "Harris, Robert" help. Subject: RE: Thank You.RE: Kitfox-List: Hinge Play Question? Please help. --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" Oh that's fantastic news and will be easy to find. Thanks Lowell. Robert, I don't think the hinge liners is actually Nylon, but rather cut lengths of Polyethylene tubing found easily at hardware stores. Lowell > > The holes in one of my elevator hinges are a little worn. (I can move the > > elevator up and down at the hinge 1/32" of an inch.) The rest of the > > hinges > > are okay. > > > > How worn can an elevator hinge be before being replaced? > > > > Is there a way to remove the play? > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:01 AM PST US From: "Bruce Harrington" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 cooling --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" Hi Charlie, Glad you got that hot weather problem fixed. Now plan for cool weather (winter) when you will have to cover up the radiator! I installed a radiator flap on the back, with a vernier control in the cockpit. Simple fix is to wrap plastic around it and stick with velcro, which I did for several winters. Cheers, bh > i always couldn't fly in july if the temperature got above 90F do to > over heating of the 582 engine on my mod 4 > last year i changed to a leaf #R5290 24 inch radiator and this summer > with a 160 thermostat i never had the temperature go above 160F even at > full power > although this year the july temperature wasn't above 90F, from the way > it has worked i'm sure the over heating problem is solved > i also changed from a gsc to a power fin prop at the same time but doubt > if that is the reason the heating problem is fixed > > Have a good day - Charlie ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:08 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: My two cents worth.... I think there will be a lot of potential new interest in used Kitfoxes. Between the ultra light pilots that are now going to be able to move up to a more substantial airplane, the current private pilots that are just tired of all the regulation and expense, and the older pilots that struggle with special issuance medicals (or no medical), the used (experimental) light sport aircraft market should have just gained a lot more customers looking for airplanes. Danny Melniks comment earlier about Sport Pilot reducing their Model V's value (1550 gross too high to qualify) says it all. "Could have sold it ten ten times already for more than I was asking if it would have qualified for sport pilot". There are going to be more buyers out there than ever before. And when you start looking at all the other airplanes out there, the homebuilt Kitfox represents a fantastic value, as well as a great history of safety, reliability, and proven versatility and practicality. Not everyone is going to want to drop 50-80 grand for a factory built airplane. And not everyone is going to want to build one either, especially when you realize you will spend 40 grand building your own. So when you start comparing, spending 35 grand (e.g.) for an already built and flying Kitfox looks like a true deal. I think it will take a while to get the momentum going on this program. A lot of GA pilots have probably never looked hard at the lighter side of aviation previously, they were too hung up on spam cans. And the ultra light guys were not looking much either, as what good would it have done them if they can't fly it? But now, they are all looking. I have a friend that is developing an airpark here in wisconsin specifically targeting the Sport Pilot. Even though he is used to operating a 206 Cessna amphib, he was thoroughly impressed by the Just Aircraft "Highlander" as he feels it will make a perfect two seat amphib due to it's large cabin, and it's low aquisition costs. Not 100% certain, but I believe he has two kits on order, and one already sold to another GA float pilot with the same intentions. So there is just one example of new activity created by the new rule. I expect the industry will be inundated with a thousand new aircraft companies expecting they will get rich overnite. And a couple years from now, there will be a hundred or so left (remember the early 80's with all the ultra light manufacturers that seemed to be popping up everywhere? Or how about the mid to late 40's when everyone was manufacturing aircraft on the premise that everyone would have their own airplane after the war?) The ones that survive will become the mainstay of the industry. I have a very strong belief that you will see the Kitfox / Avid design live through all this, and be successful for many decades to come. We might see it under a different name or model number, but it will carry the genes of the originals most of us are flying today. It's too good of a design to go away. That's why so many have copied it. That's the same reason there will always be a good market for it. Guys, don't give your airplanes away. You have one of the very best sport pilot aircraft in existence. That has to be worth something... Paul Seehafer Wisconsin ----- Original Message ----- From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > Don, > I do believe the Sport Pilot will help hold the line as far as value is > concerned. It may increase slightly. Basic rule is supply and demand and > the buyer will look at the price first.. won't consider the differences... > eg. 503 vs 912S. > > I feel that Sport Pilot will help GA aviation significantly but I do not see > a flooding of new pilots. I see Ultralighters getting licensed and the > existing older pilot base starting to fly again. > > I haven't seen any advertising outside the GA materials.. and most of those > are read by pilots already. > > Blue Skies > John & Debra McBean > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > AlbertaIV@aol.com > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > Question: Is the Sport Pilot addition going to increase the value of our > Kitfox? Is the number of new pilots going to increase dramatically because > of > Sport Pilot? > > Opinion: I don't know about the value of our Kitfox but, I don't believe > Sport Pilot is going to flood the market with new pilots. > > I ask this because I'm considering selling my Fox. What's your opinion? > > Don Smythe > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:32 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 8/25/04 8:36:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, av8rps@tznet.com writes: > own. So when you start comparing, spending 35 grand (e.g.) for an already > built and flying Kitfox looks like a true deal. > > OK guys, you drive a hard bargain but, I give in. I'll take the first 35 grand that comes along. Of course, I was only going to ask about 20 but a deal is a deal. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:58 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] FM vs. AM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe jimshumaker wrote: > Boats are always low to the earth and need all the distance they can get from the radio. > Aircraft are sometimes high and can interfere with transmissions at many airports. Yes ... er, I am not sure I understand, Jim. Both airmen and seafarers wish to have the longest range and they are both limited by the maximum allowed power output, 25 watts. AM will not be as clear as FM because the amplitude of the signal will see any interferance (e.g. another station further away) added to the signal, like the wave made by a boat will add to the crest of the waves made by the wind. But if the voice frequency is modulated on the bearing frequency, amplitude doesn't matter. At least that's what I think I understood when I took my ham license. E.g. on the old broadcasting medium frequency modulated on AM, you can hear the spark of the thunder on the top of the signal. But on FM broadcasting stations, you don't hear it. Please correct me if I am wrong. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:29 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Rick wrote: > Michael I think you have it backwards. As demand increases, more potential > pilots, there is nothing that is increasing the number of aircraft. You are right, Rick, I was comparing oranges with apples. The difference is that the small boat market in Norway is old (I understand vikings were already able seamen! :-) while the demand for more light aircraft in the US is new and it will take some time before the offer and demand balances. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:20 AM PST US From: "Jay Fabian" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: FW: Kitfox tires --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" Desser Tires has them . They are the ground down type, and I have 80 hours on them sofar and like them. They are about $60.00 each plus a tube for safety. Jay Fabian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: Kitfox-List: FW: Kitfox tires > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" > > Does anyone have a source for the tires that Arved needs (see below)? > > Don Pearsall > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arved von Glass [mailto:avon_glass@web.de] > To: dpearsall@sportflight.com > Subject: Kitfox tires > > Dear Don, > I'd be very glad if you could link me to somebody who sells balloon tires > for the kitfox classic. > I had a pair from a taiwanese company (Heng Shin) but apparently they don't > exist anymore. > Best Regards, > Arved > Aufnehmen, abschicken, nah sein - So einfach ist > WEB.DE Video-Mail: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021200 > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:19 PM PST US From: "Don" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Vortex Generators --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don" I moved mine back 4 inches from the leading edge,or 10% of the chord. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" Subject: Kitfox-List: Vortex Generators > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" > > A dear friend whom has an Avid Flyer on Floats was asking me to ask those > whom have installed the Vortex Generators on their Kitfox about the > distance from the leading edge of their respective wings . He has heard > about several different conflicting placements of these and does not know of > a placement on a Kitfox or Avid what so ever . Many thanks > > Chuck > Model IV 912 > Model II 582 Floats > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:31 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: FW: Kitfox tires --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Thanks Jay, I will forward your reply to the original emailer. Don From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Fabian Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: FW: Kitfox tires --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" Desser Tires has them . They are the ground down type, and I have 80 hours on them sofar and like them. They are about $60.00 each plus a tube for safety. Jay Fabian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: Kitfox-List: FW: Kitfox tires > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" > > Does anyone have a source for the tires that Arved needs (see below)? > > Don Pearsall > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arved von Glass [mailto:avon_glass@web.de] > To: dpearsall@sportflight.com > Subject: Kitfox tires > > Dear Don, > I'd be very glad if you could link me to somebody who sells balloon tires > for the kitfox classic. > I had a pair from a taiwanese company (Heng Shin) but apparently they don't > exist anymore. > Best Regards, > Arved > Aufnehmen, abschicken, nah sein - So einfach ist > WEB.DE Video-Mail: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021200 > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:36 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: FW: Kitfox tires --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Don, I just talked to Mark, the guy I go my tires from and have his OK to publish his phone number. He is currently out of stock, but will be getting more in. Mark Ferkin - 509-924-7333 The tires are 21x12x8, a little bigger than the original tires, They look great on the airplane, are not ground full tread tires, but are molded slick. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: Kitfox-List: FW: Kitfox tires > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" > > Does anyone have a source for the tires that Arved needs (see below)? > > Don Pearsall > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arved von Glass [mailto:avon_glass@web.de] > To: dpearsall@sportflight.com > Subject: Kitfox tires > > Dear Don, > I'd be very glad if you could link me to somebody who sells balloon tires > for the kitfox classic. > I had a pair from a taiwanese company (Heng Shin) but apparently they don't > exist anymore. > Best Regards, > Arved > Aufnehmen, abschicken, nah sein - So einfach ist > WEB.DE Video-Mail: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021200 > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:18 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] FM vs. AM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" I think the practical side to this is that AM was original and FAA to mandate change would create bunches of anxiety in all the owners that would have something new to spend money on. And in some cases not just a little money. And to transition into FM gradually would require duplicate receiving and transmitting equipment in all the ground stations in the world. I don't think I would want my name associated with a decision that would mandate that. In short, I don't think it has anything to do with signal strength, line of sight, sound quality, but rather a large in place infrastructure and economics. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] FM vs. AM > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > jimshumaker wrote: > > Boats are always low to the earth and need all the distance they can get from the radio. > > Aircraft are sometimes high and can interfere with transmissions at many airports. > > Yes ... er, I am not sure I understand, Jim. Both airmen and seafarers wish to > have the longest range and they are both limited by the maximum allowed power > output, 25 watts. AM will not be as clear as FM because the amplitude of the > signal will see any interferance (e.g. another station further away) added to > the signal, like the wave made by a boat will add to the crest of the waves > made by the wind. But if the voice frequency is modulated on the bearing > frequency, amplitude doesn't matter. At least that's what I think I understood > when I took my ham license. E.g. on the old broadcasting medium frequency > modulated on AM, you can hear the spark of the thunder on the top of the > signal. But on FM broadcasting stations, you don't hear it. > Please correct me if I am wrong. > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:35 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: FW: Kitfox tires --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Great info, Lowell, and I am sure lots of KF'ers out there will be calling Mark. Thanks much, Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: FW: Kitfox tires --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Don, I just talked to Mark, the guy I go my tires from and have his OK to publish his phone number. He is currently out of stock, but will be getting more in. Mark Ferkin - 509-924-7333 The tires are 21x12x8, a little bigger than the original tires, They look great on the airplane, are not ground full tread tires, but are molded slick. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: Kitfox-List: FW: Kitfox tires > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" > > Does anyone have a source for the tires that Arved needs (see below)? > > Don Pearsall > > -----Original Message----- > From: Arved von Glass [mailto:avon_glass@web.de] > To: dpearsall@sportflight.com > Subject: Kitfox tires > > Dear Don, > I'd be very glad if you could link me to somebody who sells balloon tires > for the kitfox classic. > I had a pair from a taiwanese company (Heng Shin) but apparently they don't > exist anymore. > Best Regards, > Arved > Aufnehmen, abschicken, nah sein - So einfach ist > WEB.DE Video-Mail: http://freemail.web.de/?mc=021200 > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:31 PM PST US From: jareds Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 2nd radio --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds Thanks Kurt, Yes buying a replacement radio was not the answer to the question. I'm hoping i can just plug into the headphone jack or at minimum purchase an intercom box that has a switchable input for talking on one radio or the other. Microair's are pretty common now in exp so I thought someone would have incorporated their old handheld! Certainly i'll post the burnt/crispy or happy results when i get the chance to test! Jared kurt schrader wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > >Hey Jared, > >I didn't see any direct answers to your question >yet??? Other than replacing your radio.... > >So I "think" the answer is likely YES, you should be >able to plug the headset output from the hand held >into the intercom input, but you should talk to >Micorair to confirm. I think they will say it works >just like the dash radio, or your CD player, etc. I >am just guessing, but they will give the solid answer. > It should only cost you a cord. > >Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo > >--- jareds wrote: > > > >>Flying in DC's restricted airspace requires >>monitoring and switching between several >> >> >frequencies. > > >>I'm wanting to incorporate a handheld >>along with my tiny Microair dash intercom system? >>Anyone tackled that and could a person just plug >>right in to the existing jacks? >> >>Jared >> >> > > > >__________________________________ > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:44 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] FM vs. AM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Lowell Fitt wrote: > In short, I don't think it has anything to do with signal strength, line of > sight, sound quality, but rather a large in place infrastructure and > economics. I think you are right, Lowell. It's like: Why isn't Great Britain driving on the right hand side of the road? Because it is less expensive to make cars with the wheel on the right hand, than change all the busses doors and everything else that need to be changed if driving on the other side of the road. Another one: Why do we still have QWERTY keyboards when it was designed for preventing that often used keys, in English, were not too close to each other, on old typewriters. And another one, why do some people still fly taildraggers ... oops, I fly a taildragger, forget that one! :-) Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:36 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: am I missing the point here? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Yes I think so ! Due to increased coupling from the tail wheel horns to the rudder horns as you say, there is therefore more coupling from the tailwheel to the rudder cables and through the cable under tension to that pedal and foot. So as the wheel reacts against that there is more pressure on the cable under tension until the tailwheel breaks away, assuming foot pressure is increased to counteract the force as would be the logical reaction. Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:36 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: A friend with a newly completed Zenair 701/912 had two spark plug caps --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Well on a late model 582 they just screw of the wire. It's just like a brass wood screw in the cap and this screws into the end of the wire. I imagine a 912 would be the same. Mine are NGK resistor caps. Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:18 PM PST US From: Fred Shiple Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: A friend with a newly completed Zenair 701/912 had two spark plug caps --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Fred Shiple Thanks Rex. The 912 works the same. We're now trying to find a source for the rubber cap separate from the internal resistor. Lockwood wants $30 for both as a set and only the rubber cap was damaged. Fred do not archive Well on a late model 582 they just screw of the wire. It's just like a brass ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:01 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] FM vs. AM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Good theory Lowell, When I was in the Marines, I was what is called an "operational tester" for 3 years. That is someone who methodically tests what the services are going to buy to see if it actually works as advertised in war. In the end, Congress just buys what is in someone's district whether it works or not, but we at least test it to see what to fix. That is called a "cost overrun". One project I had was the M-16A2. That is the replacement "better" M-16 in use today. Amoungst other things, the developer intended to make it longer to get rid of the "Matel" toy rifle feel and improve accuracy. I pointed out that they had to include in the cost the replacement of all the rifle racks in the armed forces to accommodate the new length. The rifle you see today is thus the one that would just fit the old racks. :-) It is still the "AM" version..... Wonder if I helped? Kurt S. Do not archive --- Lowell Fitt wrote: > I think the practical side to this is that AM was > original and FAA to mandate change would create > bunches of anxiety ....... > > In short, I don't think it has anything to do with > signal strength, line of sight, sound quality, but > rather a large in place infrastructure and economics. > > Lowell _______________________________ ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:15 PM PST US From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com >Rick said. It is an investment >but one of learning, fun, excitement, friendships and if you get lucky you >break even in the end and have at least one good friend left. I fully agree, Rick. I spent nearly 5 years building my Classic IV (off and on) There were times I couldn't grasp it! There were times I would wake up at 3 O'clock in the morning with the Kitfox on my mind, and I had to go to the shop and work on it. And there were times I couldn't stand it and had to keep away. But ... what an experience, those building days! I am sure there are a lot of people like me, that suffered builders withdrawal. Yes, you kind of miss that part of the process. In fact I missed it so much that when I had an opportunity to buy a plans build project off of someone, I jumped at the chance. And the building and the early mornings continue. (what a blast) And this is priceless. I nearly forgot. What is it worth to experience that first flight in the aircraft you built yourself? No one can ever imagine it, unless you made it yourself. Double priceless!! Cheers, Eric, Classic IV. Atlanta. Rick N6 e-mail; ceashman@aol.com ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:17 PM PST US From: "jimshumaker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] FM vs. AM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker" Michel Lowell is right about infrastructure, to a degree. You are right about Brits on the left side of the road. But I heard from a Frenchman that the Brits planning to change all lorries to start driving on the right side of the road on Jan 1, 20005. If that works out OK then all autos will change over on the 5th; ) On the AM radio thing, aircraft operation density and therefore midair potential increases by the volume of the air they can occupy. This means that it is VERY close to the airport that long distance communications do not interfere with the airplanes that are closer. So it is the area that is within 5 miles of the airport that we are concerned with being able to over-ride a signal from 25 miles probably is talking to another airport. In the US, many small airports use the same frequency. I can hear planes calling for two or three different airports at a time. The airports are usually 20 to 50 miles apart. When I call in to the little airport I know I will be heard by other planes at other airports but the only signal the pllanes in the pattern will hear will be mine, even if someone at those distant airports is transmitting. Also, when two transmissions occur together on AM there is a distinct squeal that indicates that the communication has been interfered with. On FM that squeal does not exist. Then the message can be cut between the two aircraft with no audible indication that an interference has occurred. Thus the tower may hear, ..."Kitfox 5192J is/25 miles for landing." When actually 5192J is downwind and the "25 miles for landing" is the interfering signal from a Learjet. With FM there is no indication that there are two radios interfering with each other. Even our long distant transmissions are limited. About the greatest distance we use is 50 to 100 miles for flight following, IFR or weather. I suspect that is not very far in a long distance boat trip. Jim Shumaker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] FM vs. AM > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > jimshumaker wrote: > > Boats are always low to the earth and need all the distance they can get from the radio. > > Aircraft are sometimes high and can interfere with transmissions at many airports. > > Yes ... er, I am not sure I understand, Jim. Both airmen and seafarers wish to > have the longest range and they are both limited by the maximum allowed power > output, 25 watts. AM will not be as clear as FM because the amplitude of the > signal will see any interferance (e.g. another station further away) added to > the signal, like the wave made by a boat will add to the crest of the waves > made by the wind. But if the voice frequency is modulated on the bearing > frequency, amplitude doesn't matter. At least that's what I think I understood > when I took my ham license. E.g. on the old broadcasting medium frequency > modulated on AM, you can hear the spark of the thunder on the top of the > signal. But on FM broadcasting stations, you don't hear it. > Please correct me if I am wrong. > > Cheers, > Michel > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:51 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [Off-topic] FM vs. AM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Jim, Most excellent answer. Much better than the argument of why we still haven't converted to the metric system I was thinking of. :-) Kurt S. Do not archive. --- jimshumaker wrote: > Michel > > Lowell is right about infrastructure, to a degree. > > On the AM radio thing, ........ > > In the US, many small airports use the same > frequency. I can hear planes calling for two or > three different airports at a time. The airports > are usually 20 to 50 miles apart. When I call in > to the little airport I know I will be heard..... > > Also, when two transmissions occur together on AM > there is a distinct squeal..... > On FM that squeal does not exist....... > with no audible indication that an interference has > occurred......... With FM there is no indication that > there are two radios interfering with each other. > > Jim Shumaker ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:18 PM PST US From: "Steve Cooper" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" ...I couldn't remove the last Cleco in the Luggage Compartment door until it was time for the Airworthiness inspection...call it sentimental or whatever...but the building process becomes a big part of a person...dang! I need a new project...an RV this time??? Steve Cooper Avid Mark IV HH/STOL Jabiru 2200/Tailwheel N919SC ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Question and Opinion > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com > > >Rick said. It is an investment > >but one of learning, fun, excitement, friendships and if you get lucky you > >break even in the end and have at least one good friend left. > > I fully agree, Rick. > > I spent nearly 5 years building my Classic IV (off and on) There were times I > couldn't grasp it! There were times I would wake up at 3 O'clock in the > morning with the Kitfox on my mind, and I had to go to the shop and work on it. And > there were times I couldn't stand it and had to keep away. > But ... what an experience, those building days! I am sure there are a lot of > people like me, that suffered builders withdrawal. Yes, you kind of miss that > part of the process. > In fact I missed it so much that when I had an opportunity to buy a plans > build project off of someone, I jumped at the chance. > And the building and the early mornings continue. (what a blast) And this is > priceless. > I nearly forgot. What is it worth to experience that first flight in the > aircraft you built yourself? No one can ever imagine it, unless you made it > yourself. Double priceless!! > Cheers, Eric, Classic IV. Atlanta. > > > Rick N6 > > e-mail; ceashman@aol.com > >