Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:43 AM - Speedster vertical stab (Lynn Matteson)
2. 06:18 AM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (flier)
3. 06:53 AM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (Paul)
4. 10:12 AM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (Lynn Matteson)
5. 10:31 AM - Rad Scoop (Gary Algate)
6. 10:56 AM - Re: Rad Scoop (Steve Magdic)
7. 11:02 AM - Do you have any pics?Re: Rad Scoop (Harris, Robert)
8. 11:37 AM - Re: Do you have any pics?Re: Rad Scoop (Gary Algate)
9. 11:40 AM - Re: Do you have any pics?Re: Rad Scoop (Gary Algate)
10. 12:16 PM - Re: Slightly bent landing gear (Michel Verheughe)
11. 12:47 PM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (Lowell Fitt)
12. 12:56 PM - Re: Rad Scoop (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
13. 01:42 PM - Re: Rad Scoop (Steve Magdic)
14. 01:44 PM - Re: Rad Scoop (Gary Algate)
15. 02:05 PM - Re: Do you have any pics?Re: Rad Scoop (Harris, Robert)
16. 02:12 PM - Re: Slightly bent landing gear (Torgeir Mortensen)
17. 03:46 PM - Trouble with 912 UL (Kirk Martenson)
18. 04:08 PM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (Lynn Matteson)
19. 04:27 PM - Search for building supplies (Lynn Matteson)
20. 04:55 PM - Re: More Rad Scoop testing :-) (kurt schrader)
21. 05:20 PM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (John King)
22. 05:32 PM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
23. 05:35 PM - Re: Search for building supplies (Don Pearsall)
24. 06:08 PM - Re: Rad Scoop (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
25. 07:07 PM - Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine (Gary Randall)
26. 07:13 PM - Re: Search for building supplies (Grant Fluent)
27. 07:24 PM - Re: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine (kurt schrader)
28. 07:27 PM - Re: Oil Cooler Questions - Rotax 912S (Grant Fluent)
29. 07:37 PM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (Lynn Matteson)
30. 07:50 PM - Re: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine (Rick)
31. 07:53 PM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (Lynn Matteson)
32. 07:58 PM - Re: Search for building supplies (Lynn Matteson)
33. 08:11 PM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (Ron)
34. 08:36 PM - Re: More Rad Scoop testing :-) (Andy)
35. 11:26 PM - Landings in 49 States (SOURDOSTAN@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
The Model IV that I just bought has the Speedster horizontal stab and
elevator completed, with trim kit installed, but the vertical stab and
rudder are not. At this point, I don't have the Speedster ribs or the
fairings for the vert. stab. Also, the tail post doesn't have the
longer bearing mounting posts req'd for the Speedster version. The
previous owner (owner #3) didn't want to have to have longer mounting
posts welded in, and didn't have the ribs, fairings etc, so was going
to go with the "flat" rudder and fin. It seems like this kit started
out in life as a IV, but some Speedster mods were added, and some were
not. Any ideas on getting this vertical area "fattened up" to the
Speedster version? Hope I've explained this adequately.
Lynn
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
I put the Speedster horiz stab on my Classic IV to
have the electric trim. Then I decided I didn't like
the gap between the rudder and spar so I ended up
making my own ribs and gap closure. My vert stab
airfoil section is thinner than the Speedster but the
gap closure worked fine.
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Speedster vertical stab
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
<lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
>The Model IV that I just bought has the Speedster
horizontal stab and
>elevator completed, with trim kit installed, but the
vertical stab and
>rudder are not. At this point, I don't have the
Speedster ribs or the
>fairings for the vert. stab. Also, the tail post
doesn't have the
>longer bearing mounting posts req'd for the
Speedster version. The
>previous owner (owner #3) didn't want to have to
have longer mounting
>posts welded in, and didn't have the ribs, fairings
etc, so was going
>to go with the "flat" rudder and fin. It seems like
this kit started
>out in life as a IV, but some Speedster mods were
added, and some were
>not. Any ideas on getting this vertical
area "fattened up" to the
>Speedster version? Hope I've explained this
adequately.
>
>Lynn
>
>
>_-
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
Hi Lynn,
The reason the horizontal has the aero thingies (ribs) is because the Speedster
and M4/Classic are the same. The vertical/rudder are not the same.
To get the vert/rud aero mods its a DIY project. Make copies of the ribs from
a speedster builder. Then for the leading edge and trailing edge at the rudder/vertical
interface, make them out of aluminum flashing from the building center.
I made formers to back up the Al out of balsa and just made a eyeball curve.
I used safety wire/epoxy to attach the vertical AL and just epoxy for the
rudder Al. The hardest part was figuring out how to close the holes where the
rudder attachments are. There are lots of ways to do it. I made small AL covers
and attached them with #6 tinnermans. The usual way the Speedster guys do it
wont work since you will have a custom design. The instructions for installing
the ribs are in the M4 manual.
Do not buy the speedster rudder/vertical interface parts from Skystar as the contour
is not the same between M4 Speedster and standard M4/Classic and you will
not have the attachment tabs anyway. They wont fit at all. Been there, and
had to return them. If you can wait until I get my project unpacked I can make
copies of the rib patterns (I forget their proper name). I can get to the fuge
to take a pic but the rib patterns are lost in one of the packing boxes.
With the custom design the long mounts are un necessary. Just make the two fairings
close together. But, it makes installing the screws very time consuming
to figure it out. No sweat, just make a tool to hold & install the screws. I am
getting pretty good at that task after a few times. I needed the wife to help
at first.
I think my result as at least as good as the standard Speedster - maybe better
from an aero perspective.
Let me know if you want more info and I will exercise my memory.
Regards, Paul
=========
At 7:42 AM -0400 8/31/04, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
>The Model IV that I just bought has the Speedster horizontal stab and
>elevator completed, with trim kit installed, but the vertical stab and
>rudder are not. At this point, I don't have the Speedster ribs or the
>fairings for the vert. stab. Also, the tail post doesn't have the
>longer bearing mounting posts req'd for the Speedster version. The
>previous owner (owner #3) didn't want to have to have longer mounting
>posts welded in, and didn't have the ribs, fairings etc, so was going
>to go with the "flat" rudder and fin. It seems like this kit started
>out in life as a IV, but some Speedster mods were added, and some were
>not. Any ideas on getting this vertical area "fattened up" to the
>Speedster version? Hope I've explained this adequately.
>
>Lynn
--
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I've got the drawings for the ribs,( full scale) so it sounds like I
can make the fairings from scratch or hardware/building supply stock,
(as described by one member of the group...thanks, Paul), and not go
with Skystar's longer-bearing-mount method. I'm not sure why they,
Skystar, wanted to make those mounting posts longer, and the gap
between the tail post and the rudder post so large and "tapered". I'm
feeling better about doing this mod now, knowing that no welding is
going to be necessary, nor any "jury-rigging".
I'm used to "kit-bashing", as it pertains to the radio-control models I
fly, but this project has a little more of the "pucker factor"
component involved with it.
Lynn
On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 07:42 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> The Model IV that I just bought has the Speedster horizontal stab and
> elevator completed, with trim kit installed, but the vertical stab and
> rudder are not. At this point, I don't have the Speedster ribs or the
> fairings for the vert. stab. Also, the tail post doesn't have the
> longer bearing mounting posts req'd for the Speedster version. The
> previous owner (owner #3) didn't want to have to have longer mounting
> posts welded in, and didn't have the ribs, fairings etc, so was going
> to go with the "flat" rudder and fin. It seems like this kit started
> out in life as a IV, but some Speedster mods were added, and some were
> not. Any ideas on getting this vertical area "fattened up" to the
> Speedster version? Hope I've explained this adequately.
>
> Lynn
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad scoop to my Lite2/582
and was having overheating problems. I have persevered and finally solved
the problem.
Initially I had my rad lowered 1-1/2" and just hanging out in the airflow. I
lowered it when I first built the plane as it would overheat when mounted
flush with the belly.
When I fitted the fiberglass scoop I mounted the rad flush and assumed the
scoop was designed to allow better airflow through the rad core. This turned
out to be not the case and I couldn't even taxi without overheating.
Then I used 1" square, thin walled aluminum tube and lowered the rad again
and also used two length approx 8" long and spaced the scoop down 1" also.
This improved the cooling but I was still at 170 deg on the ground and
approaching 190 on climbout.
Then I added 1/2" spacers to the front mounting bolts so that the throat of
the scoop was slightly angled down - temps lowered to 180 on climbout but
the temps hovered at 180 on cruise.
Finally I sealed all of the gaps around, below and above the rad core and
the inside of the scoop with foam, forcing all of the air through the rad
core. Temp on the ground 150 - 160, temp on climb out 175, temp on cruise
165 - 170...
Now I'm really happy....
When I was experimenting with the foam in flight one piece blew out and the
sound that was generated was pretty scary. The foam that remained must have
started vibrating and it sounded like the motor was going to fall out - made
one of best hasty wheel landings after that one...
I had originally queried the overheating with Skystar but they told me that
they had many rad scoop installations on 912's and never had heating
problems which really surprised me as I would have though the 912 would
generate more BTU's then the 582.
Anyway if you are considering the scoop you should consider mounting lower
than Skystar recommends - as it turned out it still looks far better than
the rad just hanging out in the breeze and as an added bonus I picked up
about 4mph in cruise which really got my attention.
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
How's about a couple pics, Gary???
Thanks,
Steve M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Algate [mailto:algate@attglobal.net]
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rad Scoop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad scoop to my Lite2/582
and was having overheating problems. I have persevered and finally solved
the problem.
Initially I had my rad lowered 1-1/2" and just hanging out in the airflow. I
lowered it when I first built the plane as it would overheat when mounted
flush with the belly.
When I fitted the fiberglass scoop I mounted the rad flush and assumed the
scoop was designed to allow better airflow through the rad core. This turned
out to be not the case and I couldn't even taxi without overheating.
Then I used 1" square, thin walled aluminum tube and lowered the rad again
and also used two length approx 8" long and spaced the scoop down 1" also.
This improved the cooling but I was still at 170 deg on the ground and
approaching 190 on climbout.
Then I added 1/2" spacers to the front mounting bolts so that the throat of
the scoop was slightly angled down - temps lowered to 180 on climbout but
the temps hovered at 180 on cruise.
Finally I sealed all of the gaps around, below and above the rad core and
the inside of the scoop with foam, forcing all of the air through the rad
core. Temp on the ground 150 - 160, temp on climb out 175, temp on cruise
165 - 170...
Now I'm really happy....
When I was experimenting with the foam in flight one piece blew out and the
sound that was generated was pretty scary. The foam that remained must have
started vibrating and it sounded like the motor was going to fall out - made
one of best hasty wheel landings after that one...
I had originally queried the overheating with Skystar but they told me that
they had many rad scoop installations on 912's and never had heating
problems which really surprised me as I would have though the 912 would
generate more BTU's then the 582.
Anyway if you are considering the scoop you should consider mounting lower
than Skystar recommends - as it turned out it still looks far better than
the rad just hanging out in the breeze and as an added bonus I picked up
about 4mph in cruise which really got my attention.
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hey Gary,
That is great info. Was the scoop easy to install? How much are they? Do you
have any pictures?
Robert
582 model II
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Algate
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rad Scoop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad scoop to my Lite2/582
and was having overheating problems. I have persevered and finally solved
the problem.
Initially I had my rad lowered 1-1/2" and just hanging out in the airflow. I
lowered it when I first built the plane as it would overheat when mounted
flush with the belly.
When I fitted the fiberglass scoop I mounted the rad flush and assumed the
scoop was designed to allow better airflow through the rad core. This turned
out to be not the case and I couldn't even taxi without overheating.
Then I used 1" square, thin walled aluminum tube and lowered the rad again
and also used two length approx 8" long and spaced the scoop down 1" also.
This improved the cooling but I was still at 170 deg on the ground and
approaching 190 on climbout.
Then I added 1/2" spacers to the front mounting bolts so that the throat of
the scoop was slightly angled down - temps lowered to 180 on climbout but
the temps hovered at 180 on cruise.
Finally I sealed all of the gaps around, below and above the rad core and
the inside of the scoop with foam, forcing all of the air through the rad
core. Temp on the ground 150 - 160, temp on climb out 175, temp on cruise
165 - 170...
Now I'm really happy....
When I was experimenting with the foam in flight one piece blew out and the
sound that was generated was pretty scary. The foam that remained must have
started vibrating and it sounded like the motor was going to fall out - made
one of best hasty wheel landings after that one...
I had originally queried the overheating with Skystar but they told me that
they had many rad scoop installations on 912's and never had heating
problems which really surprised me as I would have though the 912 would
generate more BTU's then the 582.
Anyway if you are considering the scoop you should consider mounting lower
than Skystar recommends - as it turned out it still looks far better than
the rad just hanging out in the breeze and as an added bonus I picked up
about 4mph in cruise which really got my attention.
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Robert and Steve.
I'll post some photos tomorrow - no big deal to fit although I didn't follow
the Skystar directions as that would have meant lifting the floor. I just
used 4 x 8/32 SS screws and lock nuts which I drilled through the floor and
made cylindrical aluminum spacer tubes (about 1/2" long) to fill the space
between the floor and the fabric. The Rad hoses go through cut outs in the
side of the scoop (clearly outlined in the mold). It took me about 3 hours
to set up. I also added a stiffener in the bottom which I fiberglassed in
place so that I could screw my lights into.
Regards
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
The scoop cost me about US$120 I think - I purchased it from Marc Arsenault
as he is the dealer for our area. I believe he monitors the list so you
could follow up with him if you are interested.
Regards
GaryA
Hey Gary,
That is great info. Was the scoop easy to install? How much are they? Do you
have any pictures?
Robert
582 model II
San Diego
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Slightly bent landing gear |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
... Wow, guys! Have you seen all the answers I got for what I consider a minor
trouble? This list is incredible! And that's only half of it, many wrote
directly to me offering advice and a replacement gear.
Ok, now I will imitate the Academy Award :-) ... and I'd like to thank, in no
special order, Scott, Dave, Steve, Michel G. John, Bob, Kurt, Bruce, Rex, Paul,
Rex S and Brett!
One thing I forgot to say: When this happened, the plane was near or at MTOW.
My son weights about 100 kg, the instructor, 120 kg and I had plenty of fuel
because of the airshow. Quite a difference from flying alone, when I weight
only 72 kg. The lesson is learnt!
My Kitfox is a Denney's model 3 from 1991. If that fits what you have, then,
from all the offer I got, I think I'll take Michel Gordillo's because it will
be easier with the shipping since we both live in Europe. Michel, it will be a
honour for me to fly your ... half leg :-) In fact, I was supposed to visit my
brother in Alicante, later this month, and I could have arranged to meet you at
Barajas airport, but my wife isn't too well and we cancelled the trip. I'll
contact you off-list. Muchissimas gracias, Michel.
Kurt, I won't accept "maybe's." I won't fly with a passenger until I receive
and install Michel Gordillo's gear and when the time comes and I have installed
the Jabiru, I'll get the Grove aluminium gear. My gal will still look great
with new legs, and I'll feel safer when I intend to fly around in Europe, next
summer.
Again, thank you everyone!
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Lynn, I bought mine as a straight model IV with the Speedster elevator. I
mad the ribs out of 1/4" urethane foam covered with a single layer of light
weight fiberglass. You could also use thin plywood. My airfoil was not
engineered.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Speedster vertical stab
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> The Model IV that I just bought has the Speedster horizontal stab and
> elevator completed, with trim kit installed, but the vertical stab and
> rudder are not. At this point, I don't have the Speedster ribs or the
> fairings for the vert. stab. Also, the tail post doesn't have the
> longer bearing mounting posts req'd for the Speedster version. The
> previous owner (owner #3) didn't want to have to have longer mounting
> posts welded in, and didn't have the ribs, fairings etc, so was going
> to go with the "flat" rudder and fin. It seems like this kit started
> out in life as a IV, but some Speedster mods were added, and some were
> not. Any ideas on getting this vertical area "fattened up" to the
> Speedster version? Hope I've explained this adequately.
>
> Lynn
>
>
Message 12
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
the 912 has a much higher red line for water temps. mine always indicates 190-210
degrees.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate"
>
>
> I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad scoop to my Lite2/582
> and was having overheating problems. I have persevered and finally solved
> the problem.
>
> Initially I had my rad lowered 1-1/2" and just hanging out in the airflow. I
> lowered it when I first built the plane as it would overheat when mounted
> flush with the belly.
>
> When I fitted the fiberglass scoop I mounted the rad flush and assumed the
> scoop was designed to allow better airflow through the rad core. This turned
> out to be not the case and I couldn't even taxi without overheating.
>
> Then I used 1" square, thin walled aluminum tube and lowered the rad again
> and also used two length approx 8" long and spaced the scoop down 1" also.
> This improved the cooling but I was still at 170 deg on the ground and
> approaching 190 on climbout.
>
> Then I added 1/2" spacers to the front mounting bolts so that the throat of
> the scoop was slightly angled down - temps lowered to 180 on climbout but
> the temps hovered at 180 on cruise.
>
> Finally I sealed all of the gaps around, below and above the rad core and
> the inside of the scoop with foam, forcing all of the air through the rad
> core. Temp on the ground 150 - 160, temp on climb out 175, temp on cruise
> 165 - 170...
>
> Now I'm really happy....
>
> When I was experimenting with the foam in flight one piece blew out and the
> sound that was generated was pretty scary. The foam that remained must have
> started vibrating and it sounded like the motor was going to fall out - made
> one of best hasty wheel landings after that one...
>
> I had originally queried the overheating with Skystar but they told me that
> they had many rad scoop installations on 912's and never had heating
> problems which really surprised me as I would have though the 912 would
> generate more BTU's then the 582.
>
> Anyway if you are considering the scoop you should consider mounting lower
> than Skystar recommends - as it turned out it still looks far better than
> the rad just hanging out in the breeze and as an added bonus I picked up
> about 4mph in cruise which really got my attention.
>
> Gary Algate
> Lite2/582
>
>
>
>
>
>
the 912 has a much higher red line for water temps. mine always indicates 190-210
degrees.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <ALGATE@ATTGLOBAL.NET>
I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad scoop to my Lite2/582
and was having overheating problems. I have persevered and finally solved
the problem.
Initially I had my rad lowered 1-1/2" and just hanging out in the airflow. I
lowered it when I first built the plane as it would overheat when mounted
flush with the belly.
When I fitted the fiberglass scoop I mounted the rad flush and assumed the
scoop was designed to allow better airflow through the rad core. This turned
out to be not the case and I couldn't even taxi without overheating.
Then I used 1" square, thin walled aluminum tube and lowered the rad again
and also used two length approx 8" long and spaced the scoop down 1" also.
This improved the cooling but I was still at 170 deg on the ground and
approaching 190 on climbout.
Then I added 1/2" spacers to the front mounting bolts so that the throat of
the scoop was slightly angled down - temps lowered to 180 on climbout but
the temps hovered at 180 on cruise.
Finally I sealed all of the gaps around, below and above the rad core and
the inside of the scoop with foam, forcing all of the air through the rad
core. Temp on the ground 150 - 160, temp on climb out 175, temp on cruise
165 - 170...
Now I'm really happy....
When I was experimenting with the foam in flight one piece blew out and the
sound that was generated was pretty scary. The foam that remained must have
started vibrating and it sounded like the motor was go
ing to fall out - made
one of best hasty wheel landings after that one...
I had originally queried the overheating with Skystar but they told me that
they had many rad scoop installations on 912's and never had heating
problems which really surprised me as I would have though the 912 would
generate more BTU's then the 582.
Anyway if you are considering the scoop you should consider mounting lower
than Skystar recommends - as it turned out it still looks far better than
the rad just hanging out in the breeze and as an added bonus I picked up
about 4mph in cruise which really got my attention.
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
mbers. You'll never see banner ads or any other
t Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kitfox-list
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
John, what model do you fly? I have a Model 3 with 912UL and have never seen temps
above 180.
What type of engine monitoring gauge are you using? Is it a quad gauge?
Just curious about the higher temps.
Steve Magdic
-----Original Message-----
From: kerrjohna@comcast.net [mailto:kerrjohna@comcast.net]
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rad Scoop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
the 912 has a much higher red line for water temps. mine always indicates 190-210
degrees.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate"
>
>
> I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad scoop to my Lite2/582
> and was having overheating problems. I have persevered and finally solved
> the problem.
>
> Initially I had my rad lowered 1-1/2" and just hanging out in the airflow. I
> lowered it when I first built the plane as it would overheat when mounted
> flush with the belly.
>
> When I fitted the fiberglass scoop I mounted the rad flush and assumed the
> scoop was designed to allow better airflow through the rad core. This turned
> out to be not the case and I couldn't even taxi without overheating.
>
> Then I used 1" square, thin walled aluminum tube and lowered the rad again
> and also used two length approx 8" long and spaced the scoop down 1" also.
> This improved the cooling but I was still at 170 deg on the ground and
> approaching 190 on climbout.
>
> Then I added 1/2" spacers to the front mounting bolts so that the throat of
> the scoop was slightly angled down - temps lowered to 180 on climbout but
> the temps hovered at 180 on cruise.
>
> Finally I sealed all of the gaps around, below and above the rad core and
> the inside of the scoop with foam, forcing all of the air through the rad
> core. Temp on the ground 150 - 160, temp on climb out 175, temp on cruise
> 165 - 170...
>
> Now I'm really happy....
>
> When I was experimenting with the foam in flight one piece blew out and the
> sound that was generated was pretty scary. The foam that remained must have
> started vibrating and it sounded like the motor was going to fall out - made
> one of best hasty wheel landings after that one...
>
> I had originally queried the overheating with Skystar but they told me that
> they had many rad scoop installations on 912's and never had heating
> problems which really surprised me as I would have though the 912 would
> generate more BTU's then the 582.
>
> Anyway if you are considering the scoop you should consider mounting lower
> than Skystar recommends - as it turned out it still looks far better than
> the rad just hanging out in the breeze and as an added bonus I picked up
> about 4mph in cruise which really got my attention.
>
> Gary Algate
> Lite2/582
>
>
>
>
>
>
the 912 has a much higher red line for water temps. mine always indicates 190-210
degrees.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <ALGATE@ATTGLOBAL.NET>
I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad scoop to my Lite2/582
and was having overheating problems. I have persevered and finally solved
the problem.
Initially I had my rad lowered 1-1/2" and just hanging out in the airflow. I
lowered it when I first built the plane as it would overheat when mounted
flush with the belly.
When I fitted the fiberglass scoop I mounted the rad flush and assumed the
scoop was designed to allow better airflow through the rad core. This turned
out to be not the case and I couldn't even taxi without overheating.
Then I used 1" square, thin walled aluminum tube and lowered the rad again
and also used two length approx 8" long and spaced the scoop down 1" also.
This improved the cooling but I was still at 170 deg on the ground and
approaching 190 on climbout.
Then I added 1/2" spacers to the front mounting bolts so that the throat of
the scoop was slightly angled down - temps lowered to 180 on climbout but
the temps hovered at 180 on cruise.
Finally I sealed all of the gaps around, below and above the rad core and
the inside of the scoop with foam, forcing all of the air through the rad
core. Temp on the ground 150 - 160, temp on climb out 175, temp on cruise
165 - 170...
Now I'm really happy....
When I was experimenting with the foam in flight one piece blew out and the
sound that was generated was pretty scary. The foam that remained must have
started vibrating and it sounded like the motor was go
ing to fall out - made
one of best hasty wheel landings after that one...
I had originally queried the overheating with Skystar but they told me that
they had many rad scoop installations on 912's and never had heating
problems which really surprised me as I would have though the 912 would
generate more BTU's then the 582.
Anyway if you are considering the scoop you should consider mounting lower
than Skystar recommends - as it turned out it still looks far better than
the rad just hanging out in the breeze and as an added bonus I picked up
about 4mph in cruise which really got my attention.
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
mbers. You'll never see banner ads or any other
t Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kitfox-list
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Thanks John, That explains it -
Gary
>>>>>>
the 912 has a much higher red line for water temps. mine always indicates
190-210 degrees.
John
<<<<<<
Message 15
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
I'm glad I don't have to lift up the floor. I'm looking forward to seeing
your pictures. Thanks
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Algate
Subject: RE: Do you have any pics?RE: Kitfox-List: Rad Scoop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Robert and Steve.
I'll post some photos tomorrow - no big deal to fit although I didn't follow
the Skystar directions as that would have meant lifting the floor. I just
used 4 x 8/32 SS screws and lock nuts which I drilled through the floor and
made cylindrical aluminum spacer tubes (about 1/2" long) to fill the space
between the floor and the fabric. The Rad hoses go through cut outs in the
side of the scoop (clearly outlined in the mold). It took me about 3 hours
to set up. I also added a stiffener in the bottom which I fiberglassed in
place so that I could screw my lights into.
Regards
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Slightly bent landing gear |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Michel,
You know, -your Fox will turn (even more) "historic", -as you install
Michel Gordillo's left gear!
He. he.
Torgeir.
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:13:45 +0200, Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> ... Wow, guys! Have you seen all the answers I got for what I consider a
> minor
> trouble? This list is incredible! And that's only half of it, many wrote
> directly to me offering advice and a replacement gear.
> Ok, now I will imitate the Academy Award :-) ... and I'd like to thank,
> in no
> special order, Scott, Dave, Steve, Michel G. John, Bob, Kurt, Bruce,
> Rex, Paul,
> Rex S and Brett!
>
> One thing I forgot to say: When this happened, the plane was near or at
> MTOW.
> My son weights about 100 kg, the instructor, 120 kg and I had plenty of
> fuel
> because of the airshow. Quite a difference from flying alone, when I
> weight
> only 72 kg. The lesson is learnt!
>
> My Kitfox is a Denney's model 3 from 1991. If that fits what you have,
> then,
> from all the offer I got, I think I'll take Michel Gordillo's because it
> will
> be easier with the shipping since we both live in Europe. Michel, it
> will be a
> honour for me to fly your ... half leg :-) In fact, I was supposed to
> visit my
> brother in Alicante, later this month, and I could have arranged to meet
> you at
> Barajas airport, but my wife isn't too well and we cancelled the trip.
> I'll
> contact you off-list. Muchissimas gracias, Michel.
>
> Kurt, I won't accept "maybe's." I won't fly with a passenger until I
> receive
> and install Michel Gordillo's gear and when the time comes and I have
> installed
> the Jabiru, I'll get the Grove aluminium gear. My gal will still look
> great
> with new legs, and I'll feel safer when I intend to fly around in
> Europe, next summer.
>
> Again, thank you everyone!
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 17
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| Subject: | Trouble with 912 UL |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
I am still having trouble with my Rotax 912UL equipped classic IV. Slight cutting
out at cruise rpm.
I replaced the sparkplugs, plug wires, and three bad coils. I rebuilt the carbs
as well. Still no fix.
I did a manometer test on the carbs and found at idle the right carb has a lot
less vacuum than the left. At full rpm, and at one inch of throttle less ( as
per the book) the levels are the same. A guy that was helping me with the procedure
thinks that I may have a bad or stuck valve.
When I rebuilt the carbs, I noticed a black mist on the inside of the carb up by
the diaphragm. When I took off the balance tube between the carbs the black
film was on the inside of that as well. Has anyone else ever see this before?
I wonder if that black film is sticking to the valves?
I am going to do a compression test next to determine if I have bad valves or bad
rings.
Any advise?
Kirk Martenson
Classic IV
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Thanks for the tip, Lowell. I got out the drawings today and started to
imagineer how the fairings would have to be built. I haven't come up
with an existing material yet, but will give it more thought later. Now
I'm on a search for other stuff...see my post for a building supplies
search.
Lynn
On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 03:47 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
> Lynn, I bought mine as a straight model IV with the Speedster
> elevator. I
> mad the ribs out of 1/4" urethane foam covered with a single layer of
> light
> weight fiberglass. You could also use thin plywood. My airfoil was
> not
> engineered.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Speedster vertical stab
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> The Model IV that I just bought has the Speedster horizontal stab and
>> elevator completed, with trim kit installed, but the vertical stab and
>> rudder are not. At this point, I don't have the Speedster ribs or the
>> fairings for the vert. stab. Also, the tail post doesn't have the
>> longer bearing mounting posts req'd for the Speedster version. The
>> previous owner (owner #3) didn't want to have to have longer mounting
>> posts welded in, and didn't have the ribs, fairings etc, so was going
>> to go with the "flat" rudder and fin. It seems like this kit started
>> out in life as a IV, but some Speedster mods were added, and some were
>> not. Any ideas on getting this vertical area "fattened up" to the
>> Speedster version? Hope I've explained this adequately.
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Search for building supplies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I'm going to have to order some structural adhesive (attaching false
ribs over/under fuel tank, vertical stab/rud ribs, etc.), fuel fitting
compound (Fuel Lube?), Clecos (got the pliers), nibblers, and was
trying to get it all at one place. The Aircraft Spruce cat doesn't show
the 2216 3M stuff that came from Skystar years ago with the original
kit...any good substitutes or suggestions?
Also, all the controls in my IV are in, wings are hung, and I didn't
get the reamers with the plane...will I need them beyond the control
installation portion of building? If so, I'll get 'em, but if not....?
If it is deemed that the 2216 is the way to go, I may have to make an
order up with Skystar, and get most of the stuff there.
Lynn
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: More Rad Scoop testing :-) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Great work on your scoop Gary! You scooped me too. I
also tested my new rad scoop today. (But I did it the
hard way.....hand made mine.) Seems like you have it
solved. I still have more to go. Some finish work.
So finally, here are my scoop test results for the
Soob engine guys.
Friday I flew a test flight without my scoop for
comparison numbers and to check out all the other
fixes I have made since March. Today I flew with my
new scoop for the first time.
Results = :-)) Details to follow....
But first, cutting to the chase for those who want it
up front: I used 2 power settings I could easily
repeat. At the lower power setting, I went from 83
mph, no scoop, to 95 mph with scoop. (+12 mph) The
second power setting gave me 95 mph, no scoop,
increased to 104 mph with scoop. (+9 mph) All speeds
indicated, not true.
So bottom line, lets say a gain of 9+ mph with the
scoop for these cruise speeds.
Then I overshot the landing due to less drag. :-()
Now the details for those who want them:
In my case, knowing turbo engines run hot, I lowered
the radiator from the start, so it has been running
pretty cool for me. I also moved it aft to mount it
from the spring gear mounts for more strength. To
deal with all that drag from the radiator and not lose
the cooling I got by lowering the thing, I built a
custom scoop.
This is on a KF S-5/NSI small turbo w/CAP-140 prop.
The bare radiator mount is more draggy than usual due
to the scoop mounting hardware.
My scoop is not finished yet, just roughed out to
being structurally sound. Finishing it might give me
another 1-2 mph, but that is about all. It weighs 9.5
lbs and covers the area from under the engine cowl
forward of the outlet, to the lift strut attachments
at the rear of the cockpit. It is the full width of
the plane and incorporates the spring gear center
section to reduce that drag too. It blends into the
lift strut mounts to later meet the wing strut
fairings and float mounts.
The cowl air passes above the radiator. The radiator
has its own airduct and does not have any preheated
air to deal with. It is very custom and not going to
fit anyone else as is, but it proves a concept that
anyone can use. And I am pretty poor at fiberglass
work yet, so anyone could surely build their's as well
as mine, or better.
For testing, I wanted to use power settings for
comparison that were repeatable without a prop gauge
to refer too. (I have none) So I used the following:
Max CAP-140 prop pitch throttled back to 3325 rpm.
(55% pwr for me) Here I gained 12 mph with the scoop.
Max throttle and prop pitched to 3770 rpm. (65% pwr on
my engine) Here I gained 9 mph with the scoop.
There are some variations between the 2 test days in
temp, density altitude and fuel flow achieved, but
they should not change the speed improvement by much
either way. Average test weights were within 10 lbs
or less.
My coolant temp was 155 and 140, respective to speeds,
without the scoop. (Pretty cool) Lower temp at
faster speeds even with more power. OAT = 26-31 C.
With the scoop, the coolant temp was fairly steady at
about 160. OAT = 23-25 C. I took 4 in flight panel
pics and the coolant temp is within 2 degrees either
side of 160 in all 4, though speed and power were
different. I need to do runs at different OAT temps
now, warmer first, to see the effect.
There is no cooling door or thermostat installed.
Max speed flown previously was 110 mph. Max speed
today was 128 in a dive to check structural
integrity/flutter. (This was with power set for 95
mph) I will work up through 140 mph in later testing.
First things first.
Other applicable notes: The air was smooth today and
the plane flew very well with the scoop. (I weaved
through the countryside in case anything fell off.)
The wind noise increase was very noticable as speed
increased. Guess I was getting used to the quiet.
Flight time was 1:20. I stopped due to cockpit temp
going over 30 C and I was in my nomex suit, just in
case. No cockpit vents yet.
This was the first time I felt like taking a trip in
the plane due to its performance.
Increasing to max throttle and 4270 rpm (75%) only
increased my speed by 1-2 knots over the higher test
power, but FF went up by almost 2 gph.
Cruise speed of 95 mph is good now. Faster is not
worth it as configured. Goal is for a cruise speed of
115 mph. Wing strut fairings are next on the list.
This is a big, heavy scoop, yet it weighs less than
the SS wing strut fairings and gives about the same
increase in speed, so I am happy. The coolant temp
went up (as designed because it was low) with the
scoop, and it is steadier. I was concerned about it
negatively impacting my oil temp, but it remained
about the same.
It is maybe over built and definitely crude. A more
skilled builder could keep the weight down to maybe 7
lbs.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Gary Algate <algate@attglobal.net> wrote:
> I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar
> Rad scoop to my Lite2/582 and was having overheating
> problems. I have persevered and finally solved
> the problem.........
>
> Gary Algate
> Lite2/582
__________________________________
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Lynn,
I would not make a big effort into installing the speedster ribs in the
vertical fin and rudder. On my Model IV-1200 I only installed the
speedster ribs in the elevator and horizontal stabilizer so as to
accommodate the electric trim system. The model IV tends to be tail
heavy and Skystar advised me not to do it and save a little weight. One
advantage in installing the ribs is that the large gap between the
rudder and the vertical fin was closed up nicely. I designed aluminum
fairings to cover that gap.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Lynn Matteson wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
>The Model IV that I just bought has the Speedster horizontal stab and
>elevator completed, with trim kit installed, but the vertical stab and
>rudder are not. At this point, I don't have the Speedster ribs or the
>fairings for the vert. stab. Also, the tail post doesn't have the
>longer bearing mounting posts req'd for the Speedster version. The
>previous owner (owner #3) didn't want to have to have longer mounting
>posts welded in, and didn't have the ribs, fairings etc, so was going
>to go with the "flat" rudder and fin. It seems like this kit started
>out in life as a IV, but some Speedster mods were added, and some were
>not. Any ideas on getting this vertical area "fattened up" to the
>Speedster version? Hope I've explained this adequately.
>
>Lynn
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 8/31/04 5:21:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
kingjohne@adelphia.net writes:
> accommodate the electric trim system. The model IV tends to be tail
> heavy and Skystar advised me not to do it and save a little weight. One
>
I had installed the full speedster mod on my Classic IV (Vertical/Horizontal)
when I received the same advice that the model IV tended to be too tail
heavy. I ripped out all the speedster mods for the vertical stabilizer and rudder.
Weight and balance came in OK. An awful lot to work to install and then rip
out...
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 23
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| Subject: | Search for building supplies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Lynn, why not just order all the stuff you need from Skystar? They should
have everything you mentioned. It may come out to be just a few dollars more
than if you shop for lowest price, but they sure need the business and you
will only have to make one order.
Don Pearsall
Sound Appraisal
Seattle, WA USA
425-392.4627
FAX 425-557-0107
donpearsall@comcast.net
www.soundappraisal.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Subject: Kitfox-List: Search for building supplies
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I'm going to have to order some structural adhesive (attaching false
ribs over/under fuel tank, vertical stab/rud ribs, etc.), fuel fitting
compound (Fuel Lube?), Clecos (got the pliers), nibblers, and was
trying to get it all at one place. The Aircraft Spruce cat doesn't show
the 2216 3M stuff that came from Skystar years ago with the original
kit...any good substitutes or suggestions?
Also, all the controls in my IV are in, wings are hung, and I didn't
get the reamers with the plane...will I need them beyond the control
installation portion of building? If so, I'll get 'em, but if not....?
If it is deemed that the 2216 is the way to go, I may have to make an
order up with Skystar, and get most of the stuff there.
Lynn
Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
quad guage, and my egt usually run about 1500 on a classic iv. i usually cruise
at 52-5400 and am seeing 104-107 ias. i flight plan for 92 kts. i change my main
jets each spring and fall.
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic"
>
> John, what model do you fly? I have a Model 3 with 912UL and have never seen
> temps above 180.
> What type of engine monitoring gauge are you using? Is it a quad gauge?
> Just curious about the higher temps.
> Steve Magdic
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kerrjohna@comcast.net [mailto:kerrjohna@comcast.net]
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rad Scoop
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
>
> the 912 has a much higher red line for water temps. mine always indicates
> 190-210 degrees.
> John
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate"
> >
> >
> > I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad scoop to my Lite2/582
> > and was having overheating problems. I have persevered and finally solved
> > the problem.
> >
> > Initially I had my rad lowered 1-1/2" and just hanging out in the airflow.
I
> > lowered it when I first built the plane as it would overheat when mounted
> > flush with the belly.
> >
> > When I fitted the fiberglass scoop I mounted the rad flush and assumed the
> > scoop was designed to allow better airflow through the rad core. This turned
> > out to be not the case and I couldn't even taxi without overheating.
> >
> > Then I used 1" square, thin walled aluminum tube and lowered the rad again
> > and also used two length approx 8" long and spaced the scoop down 1" also.
> > This improved the cooling but I was still at 170 deg on the ground and
> > approaching 190 on climbout.
> >
> > Then I added 1/2" spacers to the front mounting bolts so that the throat of
> > the scoop was slightly angled down - temps lowered to 180 on climbout but
> > the temps hovered at 180 on cruise.
> >
> > Finally I sealed all of the gaps around, below and above the rad core and
> > the inside of the scoop with foam, forcing all of the air through the rad
> > core. Temp on the ground 150 - 160, temp on climb out 175, temp on cruise
> > 165 - 170...
> >
> > Now I'm really happy....
> >
> > When I was experimenting with the foam in flight one piece blew out and the
> > sound that was generated was pretty scary. The foam that remained must have
> > started vibrating and it sounded like the motor was going to fall out - made
> > one of best hasty wheel landings after that one...
> >
> > I had originally queried the overheating with Skystar but they told me that
> > they had many rad scoop installations on 912's and never had heating
> > problems which really surprised me as I would have though the 912 would
> > generate more BTU's then the 582.
> >
> > Anyway if you are considering the scoop you should consider mounting lower
> > than Skystar recommends - as it turned out it still looks far better than
> > the rad just hanging out in the breeze and as an added bonus I picked up
> > about 4mph in cruise which really got my attention.
> >
> > Gary Algate
> > Lite2/582
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> the 912 has a much higher red line for water temps. mine always indicates
> 190-210 degrees.
>
>
> John
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate"
>
>
> I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad scoop to my Lite2/582
> and was having overheating problems. I have persevered and finally solved
> the problem.
>
> Initially I had my rad lowered 1-1/2" and just hanging out in the airflow. I
> lowered it when I first built the plane as it would overheat when mounted
> flush with the belly.
>
> When I fitted the fiberglass scoop I mounted the rad flush and assumed the
> scoop was designed to allow better airflow through the rad core. This turned
> out to be not the case and I couldn't even taxi without overheating.
>
> Then I used 1" square, thin walled aluminum tube and lowered the rad again
>
> and also used two length approx 8" long and spaced the scoop down 1" also.
> This improved the cooling but I was still at 170 deg on the ground and
> approaching 190 on climbout.
>
> Then I added 1/2" spacers to the front mounting bolts so that the throat of
> the scoop was slightly angled down - temps lowered to 180 on climbout but
> the temps hovered at 180 on cruise.
>
> Finally I sealed all of the gaps around, below and above the rad core and
> the inside of the scoop with foam, forcing all of the air through the rad
> core. Temp on the ground 150 - 160, temp on climb out 175, temp on cruise
> 165 - 170...
>
> Now I'm really happy....
>
> When I was experimenting with the foam in flight one piece blew out and the
> sound that was generated was pretty scary. The foam that remained must have
> started vibrating and it sounded like the motor was go
> ing to fall out - made
> one of best hasty wheel landings after that one...
>
> I had originally queried the overheating with Skystar but they told me that
> they had many rad scoop installations on 912's and never had heating
> problems which really surprised me as I would have though the 912 would
> generate more BTU's then the 582.
>
> Anyway if you are considering the scoop you should consider mounting lower
> than Skystar recommends - as it turned out it still looks far better than
> the rad just hanging out in the breeze and as an added bonus I picked up
> about 4mph in cruise which really got my attention.
>
> Gary Algate
> Lite2/582
>
>
> mbers. You'll never see banner ads or any other
> t Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kitfox-list
>
>
>
>
>
>
quad guage, and my egt usually run about 1500 on a classic iv. i usually cruise
at 52-5400 and am seeing 104-107 ias. i flight plan for 92 kts. i change my main
jets each spring and fall.
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <STEVE.MAGDIC@1PSG.COM>
John, what model do you fly? I have a Model 3 with 912UL and have never seen
temps above 180.
What type of engine monitoring gauge are you using? Is it a quad gauge?
Just curious about the higher temps.
Steve Magdic
-----Original Message-----
From: kerrjohna@comcast.net [mailto:kerrjohna@comcast.net]
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rad Scoop
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
the 912 has a much higher red line for water temps. mine always indicates
190-210 degrees.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
&g
t; -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate"
I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad scoop to my Lite2/582
and was having overheating problems. I have persevered and finally solved
the problem.
Initially I had my rad lowered 1-1/2" and just hanging out in the airflow. I
lowered it when I first built the plane as it would overheat when mounted
flush with the belly.
When I fitted the fiberglass scoop I mounted the rad flush and assumed the
scoop was designed to allow better airflow through the rad core. This turned
out to be not the case and I couldn't even taxi without overheating.
Then I used 1" square, thin walled aluminum tube and lowered the rad again
and also used two length approx 8" long and spaced the scoop down 1" als
o.
This improved the cooling but I was still at 170 deg on the ground and
approaching 190 on climbout.
Then I added 1/2" spacers to the front mounting bolts so that the throat of
the scoop was slightly angled down - temps lowered to 180 on climbout but
the temps hovered at 180 on cruise.
Finally I sealed all of the gaps around, below and above the rad core and
the inside of the scoop with foam, forcing all of the air through the rad
core. Temp on the ground 150 - 160, temp on climb out 175, temp on cruise
165 - 170...
Now I'm really happy....
When I was experimenting with the foam in flight one piece blew out and the
sound that was generated was pretty scary. The foam that remained must have
started vibrating and it sounded like the motor wa
s going to fall out - made
one of best hasty wheel landings after that one...
I had originally queried the overheating with Skystar but they told me that
they had many rad scoop installations on 912's and never had heating
problems which really surprised me as I would have though the 912 would
generate more BTU's then the 582.
Anyway if you are considering the scoop you should consider mounting lower
than Skystar recommends - as it turned out it still looks far better than
the rad just hanging out in the breeze and as an added bonus I picked up
about 4mph in cruise which really got my attention.
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
the 912 has a much higher red line for water temps. mine
always indicates
190-210 degrees.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <ALGATE@ATTGLOBAL.NET>
I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad scoop to my Lite2/582
and was having overheating problems. I have persevered and finally solved
the problem.
Initially I had my rad lowered 1-1/2" and just hanging out in the airflow. I
lowered it when I first built the plane as it would overheat when mounted
flush with the belly.
When I fitted the fiberglass scoop I mounted the rad flush and assumed the
scoop was designed to allow better airflow through the rad core. This turned
out to be not the case and I couldn't even taxi without overheating.
Then I used 1" square, thin walled aluminum tube and lowere
d the rad again
and also used two length approx 8" long and spaced the scoop down 1" also.
This improved the cooling but I was still at 170 deg on the ground and
approaching 190 on climbout.
Then I added 1/2" spacers to the front mounting bolts so that the throat of
the scoop was slightly angled down - temps lowered to 180 on climbout but
the temps hovered at 180 on cruise.
Finally I sealed all of the gaps around, below and above the rad core and
the inside of the scoop with foam, forcing all of the air through the rad
core. Temp on the ground 150 - 160, temp on climb out 175, temp on cruise
165 - 170...
Now I'm really happy....
When I was experimenting with the foam in flight one piece blew out and the
sound that was generated was pretty scary. The foam that remained must have
started vibrating and it soun
ded like the motor was go
ing to fall out - made
one of best hasty wheel landings after that one...
I had originally queried the overheating with Skystar but they told me that
they had many rad scoop installations on 912's and never had heating
problems which really surprised me as I would have though the 912 would
generate more BTU's then the 582.
Anyway if you are considering the scoop you should consider mounting lower
than Skystar recommends - as it turned out it still looks far better than
the rad just hanging out in the breeze and as an added bonus I picked up
about 4mph in cruise which really got my attention.
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
mbers. You'll never see banner ads or any other
t Specific: http://www.matronics.com/kitfox-list
===========================
t: http://www.matronics.com/chat
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Randall" <gryfz450@hotmail.com>
I just had my NEW Rotax 912 engine stolen. The serial # is 4427002. Does
anyone on the list know if there is a place I can report this engine stolen
that might help keep it from being sold?
I have reported this to my local PD, I am just looking to put the word out
in our community.
Thanks
Gary Randall
S7
Aberdeen, WA
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Search for building supplies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent <gjfpilot@yahoo.com>
Lynn,
I think Skystar now uses Hysol instead of the 3M
2216 stuff. I haven't used it but it is supposed to be
easier to work with then the 3M.
Yes, you'll need the reamers for the building
process after the controls are in. I think Skystar
also stocks those.
Grant Fluent
Newcastle, NE
Classic IV 912S
--- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
> <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I'm going to have to order some structural adhesive
> (attaching false
> ribs over/under fuel tank, vertical stab/rud ribs,
> etc.), fuel fitting
> compound (Fuel Lube?), Clecos (got the pliers),
> nibblers, and was
> trying to get it all at one place. The Aircraft
> Spruce cat doesn't show
> the 2216 3M stuff that came from Skystar years ago
> with the original
> kit...any good substitutes or suggestions?
> Also, all the controls in my IV are in, wings are
> hung, and I didn't
> get the reamers with the plane...will I need them
> beyond the control
> installation portion of building? If so, I'll get
> 'em, but if not....?
> If it is deemed that the 2216 is the way to go, I
> may have to make an
> order up with Skystar, and get most of the stuff
> there.
>
> Lynn
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
WOW, Gary, and Ouch too.
I think you should call the EAA on that one next.
They should be able to expand your contact list best,
IMHO.
Maybe trade-a-plane would come after, though I suspect
that this might go to alternative routes for sale,
flying missionaries, parting it out, etc, if they know
what they are doing?
Rotax themselves might track it too if it is installed
later. Same with the FAA if they see the # or a
changed # on the engine.
Are you an AOPA member? Maybe they can help too.
Did the police say that there was any other such
activity around there?
It must turn your stomach.....
Insured???
Kurt S.
--- Gary Randall <gryfz450@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I just had my NEW Rotax 912 engine stolen. The
> serial # is 4427002. Does
> anyone on the list know if there is a place I can
> report this engine stolen
> that might help keep it from being sold?
> I have reported this to my local PD, I am just
> looking to put the word out
> in our community.
> Thanks
> Gary Randall
> S7
> Aberdeen, WA
__________________________________
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Questions - Rotax 912S |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent <gjfpilot@yahoo.com>
Thanks to all that responded to my questions
concerning the 912 oil cooler. Dave Estapa had an
extra one that he is willing to sell. Thanks Dave!
Grant Fluent
Newcastle, NE
Classic IV 912S
do not archive
> Grant Fluent wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent
> <gjfpilot@yahoo.com>
> >
> >Hello All,
> > I have the 912S engine and I am trying to find an
> >oil cooler for it. I have had no luck finding an
> >Earl's cooler and have been told all suppliers are
> >temporarily out of stock due to manufacturing
> problems
> >and it will be at least 60 days until production
> >resumes.
> > I can buy one similar that is made by Setrab but
> it
> >is slightly smaller than the Earl's models and has
> -4
> >AN fittings instead of -6.
> > Are most of these coolers oversize for the 912
> >engines or will I have cooling problems with the
> >Setrab unit being only 6 1/2" x 2" x 2" (actual
> cooler
> >size)?
> > Will the -4 outlets flow enough for the Rotax oil
> >system?
> >
> >Thanks!
> >Grant Fluent
> >Newcastle, NE
> >Classic IV 912S
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL cause me fits later on,
when it comes to balance. But what about Ron's (N55 KF) suggestion that
the tail will fishtail if left flat? I'm sure there are a bunch of
"flat" verticals out there...how are yours handling? I like the looks
of the airfoiled verticals, but it IS a lot of work at this stage of
building (rudder is now flat and covered, and has been Poly-sprayed),
and I really could spend my time doing unfinished work instead of
undoing other's work (recall that I'm the 4th owner of this still VERY
unfinished plane).
Lynn
On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 08:31 PM, AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/31/04 5:21:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> kingjohne@adelphia.net writes:
>
>
>> accommodate the electric trim system. The model IV tends to be tail
>> heavy and Skystar advised me not to do it and save a little weight.
>> One
>>
>
> I had installed the full speedster mod on my Classic IV
> (Vertical/Horizontal)
> when I received the same advice that the model IV tended to be too tail
> heavy. I ripped out all the speedster mods for the vertical
> stabilizer and rudder.
> Weight and balance came in OK. An awful lot to work to install and
> then rip
> out...
>
> Don Smythe
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
I don't think they would be stupid enough to sell the engine as a whole. I
would keep my eye out for rot ax parts for sale. These might be good leads
for local law enforcement. Then again that is why they are crooks. They are
stupid. There should be a way for your local police to list the serial
number as stolen. I don't suppose all the components are serialized like the
heads, crank ect.? Might check around and do a little detective work and
see who is in the market for one. If the engine is offered they will have a
heads up, you will have a lead and the prospective buyer wont get stuck with
stolen property. Good luck and sorry to hear about you loss.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gary Randall
Subject: Kitfox-List: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Randall" <gryfz450@hotmail.com>
I just had my NEW Rotax 912 engine stolen. The serial # is 4427002. Does
anyone on the list know if there is a place I can report this engine stolen
that might help keep it from being sold?
I have reported this to my local PD, I am just looking to put the word out
in our community.
Thanks
Gary Randall
S7
Aberdeen, WA
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I have the 2 rigid foam pieces (approx. 3/4" x 2-1/2" x 27" rounded on
the long edge) with "General Plastics Mfg. Co., Tacoma, Washington"
printed on them, and could fill the vert stab/rudder gap as relayed to
me by the previous owner. I also haven't figured out what the same
material is used for in a 1/2" x 4" x 18" sized single piece...no part
numbers on any of these aforementioned rigid foam parts. Granted, I
haven't read the ENTIRE building manual, but I'm getting there...any
help?
Lynn
On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 08:21 PM, John King wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
>
> Lynn,
>
> I would not make a big effort into installing the speedster ribs in the
> vertical fin and rudder. On my Model IV-1200 I only installed the
> speedster ribs in the elevator and horizontal stabilizer so as to
> accommodate the electric trim system. The model IV tends to be tail
> heavy and Skystar advised me not to do it and save a little weight.
> One
> advantage in installing the ribs is that the large gap between the
> rudder and the vertical fin was closed up nicely. I designed aluminum
> fairings to cover that gap.
>
> --
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> The Model IV that I just bought has the Speedster horizontal stab and
>> elevator completed, with trim kit installed, but the vertical stab and
>> rudder are not. At this point, I don't have the Speedster ribs or the
>> fairings for the vert. stab. Also, the tail post doesn't have the
>> longer bearing mounting posts req'd for the Speedster version. The
>> previous owner (owner #3) didn't want to have to have longer mounting
>> posts welded in, and didn't have the ribs, fairings etc, so was going
>> to go with the "flat" rudder and fin. It seems like this kit started
>> out in life as a IV, but some Speedster mods were added, and some were
>> not. Any ideas on getting this vertical area "fattened up" to the
>> Speedster version? Hope I've explained this adequately.
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Search for building supplies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Probably good advice, Don...I've always (usually) been loyal to the
"parent" company, so....see how easy I am? : )
I was going to get the Clecos locally here in Michigan, just to get
things here quickly, but what's a few more days.
Lynn
On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 08:35 PM, Don Pearsall wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall"
> <donpearsall@comcast.net>
>
> Lynn, why not just order all the stuff you need from Skystar? They
> should
> have everything you mentioned. It may come out to be just a few
> dollars more
> than if you shop for lowest price, but they sure need the business and
> you
> will only have to make one order.
>
>
> Don Pearsall
> Sound Appraisal
> Seattle, WA USA
> 425-392.4627
> FAX 425-557-0107
> donpearsall@comcast.net
> www.soundappraisal.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Search for building supplies
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I'm going to have to order some structural adhesive (attaching false
> ribs over/under fuel tank, vertical stab/rud ribs, etc.), fuel fitting
> compound (Fuel Lube?), Clecos (got the pliers), nibblers, and was
> trying to get it all at one place. The Aircraft Spruce cat doesn't show
> the 2216 3M stuff that came from Skystar years ago with the original
> kit...any good substitutes or suggestions?
> Also, all the controls in my IV are in, wings are hung, and I didn't
> get the reamers with the plane...will I need them beyond the control
> installation portion of building? If so, I'll get 'em, but if not....?
> If it is deemed that the 2216 is the way to go, I may have to make an
> order up with Skystar, and get most of the stuff there.
>
> Lynn
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
Lynn,
My rudder is flat on 55KF while the fin has the symetrical airfoil which is
so easy to do. Feel free to call me as it is much easier for me to explain
by phone than for me to type. You only need as few as 3 ribs in the fin and
I will tell you how to draw them out.
Ron 847-352-8282 Chicago area Call tonight if you
like........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Speedster vertical stab
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL cause me fits later on,
> when it comes to balance. But what about Ron's (N55 KF) suggestion that
> the tail will fishtail if left flat? I'm sure there are a bunch of
> "flat" verticals out there...how are yours handling? I like the looks
> of the airfoiled verticals, but it IS a lot of work at this stage of
> building (rudder is now flat and covered, and has been Poly-sprayed),
> and I really could spend my time doing unfinished work instead of
> undoing other's work (recall that I'm the 4th owner of this still VERY
> unfinished plane).
> Lynn
> On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 08:31 PM, AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 8/31/04 5:21:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > kingjohne@adelphia.net writes:
> >
> >
> >> accommodate the electric trim system. The model IV tends to be tail
> >> heavy and Skystar advised me not to do it and save a little weight.
> >> One
> >>
> >
> > I had installed the full speedster mod on my Classic IV
> > (Vertical/Horizontal)
> > when I received the same advice that the model IV tended to be too tail
> > heavy. I ripped out all the speedster mods for the vertical
> > stabilizer and rudder.
> > Weight and balance came in OK. An awful lot to work to install and
> > then rip
> > out...
> >
> > Don Smythe
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> >
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | More Rad Scoop testing :-) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Andy" <fultz@trip.net>
I sure would like to see some pictures of said scoop.
Andy
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Great work on your scoop Gary! You scooped me too. I
also tested my new rad scoop today. (But I did it the
hard way.....hand made mine.) Seems like you have it
solved. I still have more to go. Some finish work.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Landings in 49 States |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: SOURDOSTAN@aol.com
I thought I'd share a recent accomplishment of mine with the List. As of
last Thursday, my third anniversary of the first flight in my Kitfox Model IV
Speedster, I have 750 hours on the tach and have made landings in 49 states
(haven't given up on Hawaii...yet!).
Some highlights include going to the Desert Fox Squadron Fly-in the day after
flying off my 40 hours, following Cliff Begnaud over "The Rock" to Utah and
Arizona. Second, accompanying John King and a fantastic group of guys to
Alaska in 2002. Third, to Sun 'n' Fun and the Southeast in the spring of 2003.
Fourth, flying with Robert Oliver to the Cameron Park Fly-in and then into the
backcountry strips of Idaho. Then there were the three trips to Oshkosh, and
beyond. This year I flew from Oshkosh on to my high school class reunion near
Ithaca, New York, including landing on my deceased dad's airstrip where I
learned to fly back in the 60's. The trip included flying to all the New England
states and down to Kitty Hawk, the most spiritual of all places to land ( and a
little exciting, too, with the winds!). And, finally, last week I made it to
Mandan, North Dakota, my 49th state, with a stopover in the Black Hills on
the way back home. I should also include all the Young Eagle flights I've
really enjoyed over the past three years.
The best part of my travels is meeting all the fine folks along the way,
including many of you, and the wonderful people ready and willing to lend support
at each stop. Those folks in Canada are beyond description!!!
Where to next? I'm in the process of landing at all the public airports in
Colorado (landed at 44 of 78), going to all the Regional EAA fly-ins (over
halfway there) and returning to Alaska next summer. (Robert Oliver and I are
organizing a trip - want to go?)
So, if you or anyone you know has also landed a Kitfox in all 48 conterminous
states plus Alaska, I'd love to hear from you so we can compare notes.
Love that Rotax 912ul - it just keeps on ticking!!
Stan Specht
N16KC "Columbine"
Kitfox Model IV Speedster 912ul
Denver, Colorado
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