Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:08 AM - Kitfox crash (Michel Verheughe)
2. 01:17 AM - Re: Search for building supplies (Jim Carriere)
3. 03:49 AM - Re: Search for building supplies (Lynn Matteson)
4. 04:00 AM - Re: Search for building supplies (Howard Firm)
5. 04:02 AM - Re: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine (Fox5flyer)
6. 04:52 AM - Re: Trouble with 912 UL (Steve Magdic)
7. 04:52 AM - Re: Landings in 49 States (Clifford Begnaud)
8. 04:56 AM - Re: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine (Bradley Johnston)
9. 05:31 AM - Re: Kitfox crash (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
10. 06:01 AM - Re: Kitfox crash (W Duke)
11. 06:07 AM - Re: Kitfox crash (jdmcbean)
12. 06:18 AM - Re: Landings in 49 States (jdmcbean)
13. 06:21 AM - SV: Kitfox crash (Michel Verheughe)
14. 07:40 AM - Re: Search for building supplies (Lynn Matteson)
15. 08:52 AM - Re: More Rad Scoop testing :-) (Gary Algate)
16. 08:52 AM - Re: Landings in 49 States (Don Pearsall)
17. 09:01 AM - Re: Kitfox crash (Torgeir Mortensen)
18. 09:13 AM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (Paul)
19. 09:17 AM - Re: More Rad Scoop testing :-) (Torgeir Mortensen)
20. 09:26 AM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (flier)
21. 09:31 AM - Re: Slightly bent landing gear (Michel Verheughe)
22. 09:35 AM - Re: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine (Torgeir Mortensen)
23. 09:54 AM - Re: Slightly bent landing gear (Torgeir Mortensen)
24. 10:09 AM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
25. 10:45 AM - Re: Landings in 49 States (Lynn Matteson)
26. 11:17 AM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (Lynn Matteson)
27. 11:47 AM - Re: Slightly bent landing gear (Michel Verheughe)
28. 12:00 PM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (flier)
29. 12:16 PM - Re: Trouble with 912 UL (Torgeir Mortensen)
30. 04:58 PM - Lycoming prop flange (Flybradair@cs.com)
31. 05:16 PM - Re: Landings in 49 States (John King)
32. 05:33 PM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (John King)
33. 05:38 PM - I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad scoop to my Lite2/582 (Rex & Jan Shaw)
34. 05:42 PM - Re: Lycoming prop flange (Dee Young)
35. 05:53 PM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (Lowell Fitt)
36. 05:59 PM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (Lowell Fitt)
37. 06:10 PM - Re: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine (Randy Bortree)
38. 06:29 PM - Fairnings - Was Speedster Vertical Stab (Lowell Fitt)
39. 06:31 PM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (Lowell Fitt)
40. 06:35 PM - Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL cause me fits later on, (Rex & Jan Shaw)
41. 06:42 PM - Re: I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad scoop... (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
42. 06:53 PM - Re: Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL cause me fits... (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
43. 07:01 PM - Re: Speedster vertical stab (Lynn Matteson)
44. 07:40 PM - Knight Aircraft Upholstery/Interiors (Sam Knight)
45. 08:18 PM - Re: Fairnings - Was Speedster Vertical Stab (Lynn Matteson)
46. 08:35 PM - Re: Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL cause me fits later on, (Lynn Matteson)
47. 09:05 PM - ivo adjustable prop on nsi engine? (Eric Osmond)
48. 09:42 PM - Re: Fairnings - Was Speedster Vertical Stab (Brian Peck)
49. 11:43 PM - Re: More Rad Scoop testing :-) (kurt schrader)
50. 11:49 PM - Re: Landings in 49 States (kurt schrader)
51. 11:50 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
I have "Kitfox" as keyword in my Google News Alert and I just received this one:
<http://www.paysonroundup.com/section/frontpage_lead/story/16395>
Does anyone know anything more?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Search for building supplies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Carriere <jimcarriere@yahoo.com>
Yep-
my S7 kit uses Loctite 9460 Hysol as structural adhesive. I've
never used 3M 2216, but I have used JB weld, for example, and the
Hysol stuff is at least as easy to handle.
The manual says it will reach handling strength in 6-8 hours at 77F
(I think) and fully cure in 3 days. It seems to cure much much
quicker than that, although my garage is around 80-85F. It is tacky
only for about the first few hours of setting. When wet it is easy
to wipe up excess with denatured alcohol. When dry it is easy to
trim it with a utility knife or file it down. When it is wet it
seems fairly thick- it doesn't run at all, and I doubt I will need
to mix it with flox for any fillet work. The thickness actually
makes it a little messy to work with until you get the knack down.
Jim in NW Florida
S7 in progress
> Time: 07:13:19 PM PST US
> From: Grant Fluent <gjfpilot@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Search for building supplies
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent
> <gjfpilot@yahoo.com>
>
> Lynn,
> I think Skystar now uses Hysol instead of the 3M
> 2216 stuff. I haven't used it but it is supposed to be
> easier to work with then the 3M.
> Yes, you'll need the reamers for the building
> process after the controls are in. I think Skystar
> also stocks those.
> Grant Fluent
> Newcastle, NE
> Classic IV 912S
__________________________________
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Search for building supplies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Is this a Skystar-supplied adhesive?
Lynn
On Wednesday, September 1, 2004, at 04:18 AM, Jim Carriere wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Carriere <jimcarriere@yahoo.com>
>
> Yep-
> my S7 kit uses Loctite 9460 Hysol as structural adhesive. I've
> never used 3M 2216, but I have used JB weld, for example, and the
> Hysol stuff is at least as easy to handle.
>
> The manual says it will reach handling strength in 6-8 hours at 77F
> (I think) and fully cure in 3 days. It seems to cure much much
> quicker than that, although my garage is around 80-85F. It is tacky
> only for about the first few hours of setting. When wet it is easy
> to wipe up excess with denatured alcohol. When dry it is easy to
> trim it with a utility knife or file it down. When it is wet it
> seems fairly thick- it doesn't run at all, and I doubt I will need
> to mix it with flox for any fillet work. The thickness actually
> makes it a little messy to work with until you get the knack down.
>
>
> Jim in NW Florida
> S7 in progress
>
>
>> Time: 07:13:19 PM PST US
>> From: Grant Fluent <gjfpilot@yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Search for building supplies
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent
>> <gjfpilot@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Lynn,
>> I think Skystar now uses Hysol instead of the 3M
>> 2216 stuff. I haven't used it but it is supposed to be
>> easier to work with then the 3M.
>> Yes, you'll need the reamers for the building
>> process after the controls are in. I think Skystar
>> also stocks those.
>> Grant Fluent
>> Newcastle, NE
>> Classic IV 912S
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Search for building supplies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
I have a set of those reamers....I just have to find 'em....Want 'em?
Howard Firm
508 12th St. South
Virginia MN 55792
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Search for building supplies
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> I'm going to have to order some structural adhesive (attaching false
> ribs over/under fuel tank, vertical stab/rud ribs, etc.), fuel fitting
> compound (Fuel Lube?), Clecos (got the pliers), nibblers, and was
> trying to get it all at one place. The Aircraft Spruce cat doesn't show
> the 2216 3M stuff that came from Skystar years ago with the original
> kit...any good substitutes or suggestions?
> Also, all the controls in my IV are in, wings are hung, and I didn't
> get the reamers with the plane...will I need them beyond the control
> installation portion of building? If so, I'll get 'em, but if not....?
> If it is deemed that the 2216 is the way to go, I may have to make an
> order up with Skystar, and get most of the stuff there.
>
> Lynn
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Wow Gary! Big bummer. I think the first thing I'd do is make a list of
EVERYONE who knew I had it, then narrow that list down to the ones who I
though MIGHT possibly have the propensity for doing something like that.
Also, keep an eye on ebay, barnstormers, trade a plane, etc for 912s for
sale. Probably lots of other things you can do too. Maybe even a call to
EAA might yield an idea or two.
Where was it located when it was stolen?
Darrel
> I just had my NEW Rotax 912 engine stolen. The serial # is 4427002. Does
> anyone on the list know if there is a place I can report this engine
stolen
> that might help keep it from being sold?
> I have reported this to my local PD, I am just looking to put the word out
> in our community.
> Thanks
> Gary Randall
> S7
> Aberdeen, WA
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Trouble with 912 UL |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Magdic" <steve.magdic@1psg.com>
Disassemble carbs from intake and check rubber carb sockets for cracking.
Steve M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kirk Martenson [mailto:kirk@mninter.net]
Subject: Kitfox-List: Trouble with 912 UL
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
I am still having trouble with my Rotax 912UL equipped classic IV. Slight cutting
out at cruise rpm.
I replaced the sparkplugs, plug wires, and three bad coils. I rebuilt the carbs
as well. Still no fix.
I did a manometer test on the carbs and found at idle the right carb has a lot
less vacuum than the left. At full rpm, and at one inch of throttle less ( as
per the book) the levels are the same. A guy that was helping me with the procedure
thinks that I may have a bad or stuck valve.
When I rebuilt the carbs, I noticed a black mist on the inside of the carb up by
the diaphragm. When I took off the balance tube between the carbs the black
film was on the inside of that as well. Has anyone else ever see this before?
I wonder if that black film is sticking to the valves?
I am going to do a compression test next to determine if I have bad valves or bad
rings.
Any advise?
Kirk Martenson
Classic IV
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Landings in 49 States |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Congrats Stan!
I didn't realize that you were so close to getting them all done. I was
thinking about our first Desert Fox trip this past Saturday as I flew over
Corona pass. It was a beautiful day just like that Thursday morning 3 years
ago.
Glad that you got to land at your dads strip. I'm sure that was a special
moment.
Hey, I still to plan to go to Alaska with you.
Wow! 750 hours already. That must be a record for 3 years. You'll soon be
the highest time kitfox pilot on the planet. I better keep busy flying if
I'm going to keep up. I don't have the advantage of being retired. ;-)
We're doing the annual on our bird this week, but I hope to have it flying
by the weekend. If the weather is nice, why don't we go knock off a few
airports on your list? How about Marble?
Best Regards,
Cliff
Erie, CO
do not archive
>
> I thought I'd share a recent accomplishment of mine with the List. As of
> last Thursday, my third anniversary of the first flight in my Kitfox Model
IV
> Speedster, I have 750 hours on the tach and have made landings in 49
states
> (haven't given up on Hawaii...yet!).
>
> Some highlights include going to the Desert Fox Squadron Fly-in the day
after
> flying off my 40 hours, following Cliff Begnaud over "The Rock" to Utah
and
> Arizona. Second, accompanying John King and a fantastic group of guys to
> Alaska in 2002. Third, to Sun 'n' Fun and the Southeast in the spring of
2003.
> Fourth, flying with Robert Oliver to the Cameron Park Fly-in and then into
the
> backcountry strips of Idaho. Then there were the three trips to Oshkosh,
and
> beyond. This year I flew from Oshkosh on to my high school class reunion
near
> Ithaca, New York, including landing on my deceased dad's airstrip where I
> learned to fly back in the 60's. The trip included flying to all the New
England
> states and down to Kitty Hawk, the most spiritual of all places to land
( and a
> little exciting, too, with the winds!). And, finally, last week I made it
to
> Mandan, North Dakota, my 49th state, with a stopover in the Black Hills on
> the way back home. I should also include all the Young Eagle flights I've
> really enjoyed over the past three years.
>
> The best part of my travels is meeting all the fine folks along the way,
> including many of you, and the wonderful people ready and willing to lend
support
> at each stop. Those folks in Canada are beyond description!!!
>
> Where to next? I'm in the process of landing at all the public airports
in
> Colorado (landed at 44 of 78), going to all the Regional EAA fly-ins (over
> halfway there) and returning to Alaska next summer. (Robert Oliver and I
are
> organizing a trip - want to go?)
>
> So, if you or anyone you know has also landed a Kitfox in all 48
conterminous
> states plus Alaska, I'd love to hear from you so we can compare notes.
>
> Love that Rotax 912ul - it just keeps on ticking!!
>
> Stan Specht
> N16KC "Columbine"
> Kitfox Model IV Speedster 912ul
> Denver, Colorado
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley Johnston" <bradley.johnston@rogers.com>
Post on Barnstormers.com ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
> Wow Gary! Big bummer. I think the first thing I'd do is make a list of
> EVERYONE who knew I had it, then narrow that list down to the ones who I
> though MIGHT possibly have the propensity for doing something like that.
> Also, keep an eye on ebay, barnstormers, trade a plane, etc for 912s for
> sale. Probably lots of other things you can do too. Maybe even a call to
> EAA might yield an idea or two.
> Where was it located when it was stolen?
> Darrel
>
> > I just had my NEW Rotax 912 engine stolen. The serial # is 4427002.
Does
> > anyone on the list know if there is a place I can report this engine
> stolen
> > that might help keep it from being sold?
> > I have reported this to my local PD, I am just looking to put the word
out
> > in our community.
> > Thanks
> > Gary Randall
> > S7
> > Aberdeen, WA
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 9/1/04 1:09:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, michel@online.no
writes:
>
> <http://www.paysonroundup.com/section/frontpage_lead/story/16395>
>
> Does anyone know anything more?
>
>
That sounds like it might be our Michael Gibbs....
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke <n981ms@yahoo.com>
I don't know any specifics but photos of the plane are on Sportflight under "completions"
and "first flight". I was glad to read they weren't seriously injured.
Maxwell
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
I have "Kitfox" as keyword in my Google News Alert and I just received this one:
Does anyone know anything more?
Cheers,
Michel
---------------------------------
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Don,
You are correct.. It is Michael Gibbs. Best of the knowledge
reports.... Just re-fueled in Payson. Was 5 minutes out and called a
May-Day engine out. Appears that he was attempting to reach the river bed.
He regained consciousness I think it was Sunday night. Major concussion and
broken legs... Not too sure about any more of the details.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
AlbertaIV@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox crash
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 9/1/04 1:09:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, michel@online.no
writes:
>
> <http://www.paysonroundup.com/section/frontpage_lead/story/16395>
>
> Does anyone know anything more?
>
>
That sounds like it might be our Michael Gibbs....
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 12
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| Subject: | Landings in 49 States |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Congrats Stan.... I've landed in most of the states.. but not in my own
Kitfox.. and not in Alaska. When you get done with Colorado come on over to
Idaho.. we can keep you busy for awhile. I've started with Idaho first..
hopefully I'll get the rest of the states along the way.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
SOURDOSTAN@aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Landings in 49 States
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: SOURDOSTAN@aol.com
I thought I'd share a recent accomplishment of mine with the List. As of
last Thursday, my third anniversary of the first flight in my Kitfox Model
IV
Speedster, I have 750 hours on the tach and have made landings in 49 states
(haven't given up on Hawaii...yet!).
Some highlights include going to the Desert Fox Squadron Fly-in the day
after
flying off my 40 hours, following Cliff Begnaud over "The Rock" to Utah and
Arizona. Second, accompanying John King and a fantastic group of guys to
Alaska in 2002. Third, to Sun 'n' Fun and the Southeast in the spring of
2003.
Fourth, flying with Robert Oliver to the Cameron Park Fly-in and then into
the
backcountry strips of Idaho. Then there were the three trips to Oshkosh,
and
beyond. This year I flew from Oshkosh on to my high school class reunion
near
Ithaca, New York, including landing on my deceased dad's airstrip where I
learned to fly back in the 60's. The trip included flying to all the New
England
states and down to Kitty Hawk, the most spiritual of all places to land (
and a
little exciting, too, with the winds!). And, finally, last week I made it
to
Mandan, North Dakota, my 49th state, with a stopover in the Black Hills on
the way back home. I should also include all the Young Eagle flights I've
really enjoyed over the past three years.
The best part of my travels is meeting all the fine folks along the way,
including many of you, and the wonderful people ready and willing to lend
support
at each stop. Those folks in Canada are beyond description!!!
Where to next? I'm in the process of landing at all the public airports in
Colorado (landed at 44 of 78), going to all the Regional EAA fly-ins (over
halfway there) and returning to Alaska next summer. (Robert Oliver and I
are
organizing a trip - want to go?)
So, if you or anyone you know has also landed a Kitfox in all 48
conterminous
states plus Alaska, I'd love to hear from you so we can compare notes.
Love that Rotax 912ul - it just keeps on ticking!!
Stan Specht
N16KC "Columbine"
Kitfox Model IV Speedster 912ul
Denver, Colorado
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> That sounds like it might be our Michael Gibbs....
I thought so and that's why I felt I had to inform the list. ... must have been
a hard landing, one wing is folded in the other direction. Let's hope Mike is
ok.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Search for building supplies |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Absolutely, Howard. Contact me direct via email, and we'll talk.
Lynn
do not archive
On Wednesday, September 1, 2004, at 07:00 AM, Howard Firm wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
>
> I have a set of those reamers....I just have to find 'em....Want 'em?
>
> Howard Firm
> 508 12th St. South
> Virginia MN 55792
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Search for building supplies
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> I'm going to have to order some structural adhesive (attaching false
>> ribs over/under fuel tank, vertical stab/rud ribs, etc.), fuel fitting
>> compound (Fuel Lube?), Clecos (got the pliers), nibblers, and was
>> trying to get it all at one place. The Aircraft Spruce cat doesn't
>> show
>> the 2216 3M stuff that came from Skystar years ago with the original
>> kit...any good substitutes or suggestions?
>> Also, all the controls in my IV are in, wings are hung, and I didn't
>> get the reamers with the plane...will I need them beyond the control
>> installation portion of building? If so, I'll get 'em, but if not....?
>> If it is deemed that the 2216 is the way to go, I may have to make an
>> order up with Skystar, and get most of the stuff there.
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | More Rad Scoop testing :-) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Great news Kurt.
I did a few more test last night also and tried to come up with more
objective results (difficult due to combination of variable pitch prop and
power settings) but I am also seeing closer to an 8 mph increase in speed.
Gotta love that
Gary
Lite2/582
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Great work on your scoop Gary! You scooped me too. I
also tested my new rad scoop today. (But I did it the
hard way.....hand made mine.) Seems like you have it
solved. I still have more to go. Some finish work.
So finally, here are my scoop test results for the
Soob engine guys.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message 16
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| Subject: | Landings in 49 States |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Stan,
That is quite an accomplishment. Congratulations and keep on going!
Do you have one of those colored in USA maps on your KF like they have on
RVs?
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
SOURDOSTAN@aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Landings in 49 States
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: SOURDOSTAN@aol.com
I thought I'd share a recent accomplishment of mine with the List. As of
last Thursday, my third anniversary of the first flight in my Kitfox Model
IV
Speedster, I have 750 hours on the tach and have made landings in 49 states
(haven't given up on Hawaii...yet!).
Some highlights include going to the Desert Fox Squadron Fly-in the day
after
flying off my 40 hours, following Cliff Begnaud over "The Rock" to Utah and
Arizona. Second, accompanying John King and a fantastic group of guys to
Alaska in 2002. Third, to Sun 'n' Fun and the Southeast in the spring of
2003.
Fourth, flying with Robert Oliver to the Cameron Park Fly-in and then into
the
backcountry strips of Idaho. Then there were the three trips to Oshkosh,
and
beyond. This year I flew from Oshkosh on to my high school class reunion
near
Ithaca, New York, including landing on my deceased dad's airstrip where I
learned to fly back in the 60's. The trip included flying to all the New
England
states and down to Kitty Hawk, the most spiritual of all places to land (
and a
little exciting, too, with the winds!). And, finally, last week I made it
to
Mandan, North Dakota, my 49th state, with a stopover in the Black Hills on
the way back home. I should also include all the Young Eagle flights I've
really enjoyed over the past three years.
The best part of my travels is meeting all the fine folks along the way,
including many of you, and the wonderful people ready and willing to lend
support
at each stop. Those folks in Canada are beyond description!!!
Where to next? I'm in the process of landing at all the public airports in
Colorado (landed at 44 of 78), going to all the Regional EAA fly-ins (over
halfway there) and returning to Alaska next summer. (Robert Oliver and I
are
organizing a trip - want to go?)
So, if you or anyone you know has also landed a Kitfox in all 48
conterminous
states plus Alaska, I'd love to hear from you so we can compare notes.
Love that Rotax 912ul - it just keeps on ticking!!
Stan Specht
N16KC "Columbine"
Kitfox Model IV Speedster 912ul
Denver, Colorado
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox crash |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi,
Sorry for Michael's accident, it's sad to read about such thing. Hope he
soon will recover.
Just re-fueled.. Such thing makes me wonder.
Torgeir.
On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 07:07:18 -0600, jdmcbean <jdmcbean@cableone.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Don,
> You are correct.. It is Michael Gibbs. Best of the knowledge
> reports.... Just re-fueled in Payson. Was 5 minutes out and called a
> May-Day engine out. Appears that he was attempting to reach the river
> bed.
> He regained consciousness I think it was Sunday night. Major concussion
> and
> broken legs... Not too sure about any more of the details.
>
> Blue Skies
> John & Debra McBean
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> AlbertaIV@aol.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox crash
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 9/1/04 1:09:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> michel@online.no
> writes:
>
>
>>
>> <http://www.paysonroundup.com/section/frontpage_lead/story/16395>
>>
>> Does anyone know anything more?
>>
>>
>
> That sounds like it might be our Michael Gibbs....
>
> Don Smythe
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
Fits later - no way - IMO.
The question really is why wouldnt a Speedster have an issue. A M4 long wing 912
with all the speedster stuff probably would have a fwd cg issue not an aft
one. A M4 short wing 912 with speedster stuff would be the same as a factory Speedster.
Ribblet (sp) did not specify the airfoil tail surfaces without a good
reason. Who knows his reasons. Handling?
Cg wise with an engine lighter than a 912 then an aft cg might be an issue. So
move stuff forward and compensate.
But lighter is always a goal. Not sure if foam is lighter than plywood with lightening
holes??
Paul
===========
At 10:36 PM -0400 8/31/04, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
>Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL cause me fits later on,
>when it comes to balance. But what about Ron's (N55 KF) suggestion that
>the tail will fishtail if left flat? I'm sure there are a bunch of
>"flat" verticals out there...how are yours handling? I like the looks
>of the airfoiled verticals, but it IS a lot of work at this stage of
>building (rudder is now flat and covered, and has been Poly-sprayed),
>and I really could spend my time doing unfinished work instead of
>undoing other's work (recall that I'm the 4th owner of this still VERY
>unfinished plane).
>Lynn
>
--
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: More Rad Scoop testing :-) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Kurt,
Good information, this sure speed up my "plans" in making my own rad.
fairing.
-----------
The cowl air passes above the radiator. The radiator
has its own airduct and does not have any preheated
air to deal with.
-----------
Great idea.
Your "numbers" is very interesting, so I'll think this might be on the
priority list when starting the annual in mid October.
Is there any picture yet?
Thanks.
Torgeir.
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:55:00 -0700 (PDT), kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Great work on your scoop Gary! You scooped me too. I
> also tested my new rad scoop today. (But I did it the
> hard way.....hand made mine.) Seems like you have it
> solved. I still have more to go. Some finish work.
>
> So finally, here are my scoop test results for the
> Soob engine guys.
>
> Friday I flew a test flight without my scoop for
> comparison numbers and to check out all the other
> fixes I have made since March. Today I flew with my
> new scoop for the first time.
>
> Results = :-)) Details to follow....
>
> But first, cutting to the chase for those who want it
> up front: I used 2 power settings I could easily
> repeat. At the lower power setting, I went from 83
> mph, no scoop, to 95 mph with scoop. (+12 mph) The
> second power setting gave me 95 mph, no scoop,
> increased to 104 mph with scoop. (+9 mph) All speeds
> indicated, not true.
>
> So bottom line, lets say a gain of 9+ mph with the
> scoop for these cruise speeds.
>
> Then I overshot the landing due to less drag. :-()
>
> Now the details for those who want them:
>
> In my case, knowing turbo engines run hot, I lowered
> the radiator from the start, so it has been running
> pretty cool for me. I also moved it aft to mount it
> from the spring gear mounts for more strength. To
> deal with all that drag from the radiator and not lose
> the cooling I got by lowering the thing, I built a
> custom scoop.
>
> This is on a KF S-5/NSI small turbo w/CAP-140 prop.
> The bare radiator mount is more draggy than usual due
> to the scoop mounting hardware.
>
> My scoop is not finished yet, just roughed out to
> being structurally sound. Finishing it might give me
> another 1-2 mph, but that is about all. It weighs 9.5
> lbs and covers the area from under the engine cowl
> forward of the outlet, to the lift strut attachments
> at the rear of the cockpit. It is the full width of
> the plane and incorporates the spring gear center
> section to reduce that drag too. It blends into the
> lift strut mounts to later meet the wing strut
> fairings and float mounts.
>
> The cowl air passes above the radiator. The radiator
> has its own airduct and does not have any preheated
> air to deal with. It is very custom and not going to
> fit anyone else as is, but it proves a concept that
> anyone can use. And I am pretty poor at fiberglass
> work yet, so anyone could surely build their's as well
> as mine, or better.
>
> For testing, I wanted to use power settings for
> comparison that were repeatable without a prop gauge
> to refer too. (I have none) So I used the following:
>
> Max CAP-140 prop pitch throttled back to 3325 rpm.
> (55% pwr for me) Here I gained 12 mph with the scoop.
>
> Max throttle and prop pitched to 3770 rpm. (65% pwr on
> my engine) Here I gained 9 mph with the scoop.
>
> There are some variations between the 2 test days in
> temp, density altitude and fuel flow achieved, but
> they should not change the speed improvement by much
> either way. Average test weights were within 10 lbs
> or less.
>
> My coolant temp was 155 and 140, respective to speeds,
> without the scoop. (Pretty cool) Lower temp at
> faster speeds even with more power. OAT = 26-31 C.
>
> With the scoop, the coolant temp was fairly steady at
> about 160. OAT = 23-25 C. I took 4 in flight panel
> pics and the coolant temp is within 2 degrees either
> side of 160 in all 4, though speed and power were
> different. I need to do runs at different OAT temps
> now, warmer first, to see the effect.
>
> There is no cooling door or thermostat installed.
>
> Max speed flown previously was 110 mph. Max speed
> today was 128 in a dive to check structural
> integrity/flutter. (This was with power set for 95
> mph) I will work up through 140 mph in later testing.
> First things first.
>
> Other applicable notes: The air was smooth today and
> the plane flew very well with the scoop. (I weaved
> through the countryside in case anything fell off.)
>
> The wind noise increase was very noticable as speed
> increased. Guess I was getting used to the quiet.
>
> Flight time was 1:20. I stopped due to cockpit temp
> going over 30 C and I was in my nomex suit, just in
> case. No cockpit vents yet.
>
> This was the first time I felt like taking a trip in
> the plane due to its performance.
>
> Increasing to max throttle and 4270 rpm (75%) only
> increased my speed by 1-2 knots over the higher test
> power, but FF went up by almost 2 gph.
>
> Cruise speed of 95 mph is good now. Faster is not
> worth it as configured. Goal is for a cruise speed of
> 115 mph. Wing strut fairings are next on the list.
>
> This is a big, heavy scoop, yet it weighs less than
> the SS wing strut fairings and gives about the same
> increase in speed, so I am happy. The coolant temp
> went up (as designed because it was low) with the
> scoop, and it is steadier. I was concerned about it
> negatively impacting my oil temp, but it remained
> about the same.
>
> It is maybe over built and definitely crude. A more
> skilled builder could keep the weight down to maybe 7
> lbs.
>
> Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
>
> --- Gary Algate <algate@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar
>> Rad scoop to my Lite2/582 and was having overheating
>
>> problems. I have persevered and finally solved
>> the problem.........
>>
>> Gary Algate
>> Lite2/582
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
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Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
I've basically got a IV longwing 912 with all the
Speedster stuff. CG is tail biased. My tail ribs
are about half the profile of the Speedster ribs.
Without the longer post bushings I did that to get
the rudder spar gap seal radius right and to have a
nice flowing airfoil profile from the front of the
vert stab back across the rudder. My rudder spar
radius is balsa and my stab and rudder ribs are ply.
The channel that the rudder radius fits in is made of
two pieces of aluminum angle on a ply face bonded to
the back of the stab spar. Altogether it added just
a couple of pounds.
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Speedster vertical stab
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul
<pwilson@climber.org>
>
>Fits later - no way - IMO.
> The question really is why wouldnt a Speedster have
an issue. A M4 long wing 912 with all the speedster
stuff probably would have a fwd cg issue not an aft
one. A M4 short wing 912 with speedster stuff would
be the same as a factory Speedster. Ribblet (sp) did
not specify the airfoil tail surfaces without a good
reason. Who knows his reasons. Handling?
> Cg wise with an engine lighter than a 912 then an
aft cg might be an issue. So move stuff forward and
compensate.
> But lighter is always a goal. Not sure if foam is
lighter than plywood with lightening holes??
>
> Paul
>===========
>At 10:36 PM -0400 8/31/04, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
<lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>>Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL
cause me fits later on,
>>when it comes to balance. But what about Ron's (N55
KF) suggestion that
>>the tail will fishtail if left flat? I'm sure there
are a bunch of
>>"flat" verticals out there...how are yours
handling? I like the looks
>>of the airfoiled verticals, but it IS a lot of work
at this stage of
>>building (rudder is now flat and covered, and has
been Poly-sprayed),
>>and I really could spend my time doing unfinished
work instead of
>>undoing other's work (recall that I'm the 4th owner
of this still VERY
>>unfinished plane).
>>Lynn
>>
>
>--
>
>
>_-
======================================================
==================
Contributions
any other
Forums.
>_-
======================================================
==================
>_-
======================================================
==================
http://www.matronics.com/subscription
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list
http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list
http://www.matronics.com/archives
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
list
http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
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>_-
======================================================
==================
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Slightly bent landing gear |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
> You know, -your Fox will turn (even more) "historic", -as you install
> Michel Gordillo's left gear!
Well, Torgeir, from what I understand, Michel Gordillo flew to Oskhosh with his
Grove gear so, I will get what will make my plane ... pre-historical! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Garry,
Grrr. Those buglars!
Here is a site for Rotax aircraft engines, also containing a list with
stolen engines.
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/aircraft/aircraft.nsf/index?Openpage
You could also "note" Rotax in Austria.
http://www.rotax.com
Torgeir.
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:07:12 -0700, Gary Randall <gryfz450@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Randall" <gryfz450@hotmail.com>
>
> I just had my NEW Rotax 912 engine stolen. The serial # is 4427002.
> Does
> anyone on the list know if there is a place I can report this engine
> stolen
> that might help keep it from being sold?
> I have reported this to my local PD, I am just looking to put the word
> out
> in our community.
> Thanks
> Gary Randall
> S7
> Aberdeen, WA
>
>
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Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Slightly bent landing gear |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Michel,
Hmm. I was quite sure that Michel G did the "orbit" with the old style
gear. So- I'm quite sure you'll have the real "historical" one. :))
As far as I'll know, he had the bent gear after the "Historical Flight".
Cheers,
Torgeir.
On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 18:28:44 +0200, Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
>> You know, -your Fox will turn (even more) "historic", -as you install
>> Michel Gordillo's left gear!
>
> Well, Torgeir, from what I understand, Michel Gordillo flew to Oskhosh
> with his
> Grove gear so, I will get what will make my plane ... pre-historical! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
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Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net
my classic iv with fully faired empenage was not at all tail heavy, so I question
that it is universal. the baggage sack is not rated to take all of the weight
that would be needed to get it to the rear-most limit.
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul
>
> Fits later - no way - IMO.
> The question really is why wouldnt a Speedster have an issue. A M4 long wing
> 912 with all the speedster stuff probably would have a fwd cg issue not an aft
> one. A M4 short wing 912 with speedster stuff would be the same as a factory
> Speedster. Ribblet (sp) did not specify the airfoil tail surfaces without a good
> reason. Who knows his reasons. Handling?
> Cg wise with an engine lighter than a 912 then an aft cg might be an issue. So
> move stuff forward and compensate.
> But lighter is always a goal. Not sure if foam is lighter than plywood with
> lightening holes??
>
> Paul
> ===========
> At 10:36 PM -0400 8/31/04, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
> >
> >Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL cause me fits later on,
> >when it comes to balance. But what about Ron's (N55 KF) suggestion that
> >the tail will fishtail if left flat? I'm sure there are a bunch of
> >"flat" verticals out there...how are yours handling? I like the looks
> >of the airfoiled verticals, but it IS a lot of work at this stage of
> >building (rudder is now flat and covered, and has been Poly-sprayed),
> >and I really could spend my time doing unfinished work instead of
> >undoing other's work (recall that I'm the 4th owner of this still VERY
> >unfinished plane).
> >Lynn
> >
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
my classic iv with fully faired empenage was not at all tail heavy, so I question
that it is universal. the baggage sack is not rated to take all of the weight
that would be needed to get it to the rear-most limit.
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <PWILSON@CLIMBER.ORG>
Fits later - no way - IMO.
The question really is why wouldnt a Speedster have an issue. A M4 long wing
912 with all the speedster stuff probably would have a fwd cg issue not an aft
one. A M4 short wing 912 with speedster stuff would be the same as a factory
Speedster. Ribblet (sp) did not specify the airfoil tail surfaces without a good
reason. Who knows his reasons. Handling?
Cg wise with an engine lighter than a 912 then an aft cg might be an issue. So
move stuff forward and compensate.
But lighter is always a goal. Not sure if foam is lighter than plywood with
lightening holes??
Paul
===========
At 10:36 PM -0400 8/31/04, Lynn Mat
teson wrote:
-- Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <LYNNMATT@JPS.NET>
Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL cause me fits later on,
when it comes to balance. But what about Ron's (N55 KF) suggestion that
the tail will fishtail if left flat? I'm sure there are a bunch of
"flat" verticals out there...how are yours handling? I like the looks
of the airfoiled verticals, but it IS a lot of work at this stage of
building (rudder is now flat and covered, and has been Poly-sprayed),
and I really could spend my time doing unfinished work instead of
undoing other's work (recall that I'm the 4th owner of this still VERY
unfinished plane).
Lynn
--
mail Forum -
://www.matronics.com/archives
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Landings in 49 States |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I've got one of those maps on my little MH/RV, and I just added Ark and
Kentucky, during my recent IV-buying trip. I intend to add a bunch more
when I go to the Seaplane Fly-in about 8 days. I've got 27 right now,
and figure to add at least Maine (going from Michigan via Canada) or
more if I come back through the States...which I'd rather do. The
burning question is: would I get kicked out of the 'fox owners club if
I indulged in such nonsense?
Lynn
p.s. on my map they gave the Upper Peninsula to Wisconsin....
On Wednesday, September 1, 2004, at 11:52 AM, Don Pearsall wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall"
> <donpearsall@comcast.net>
>
> Stan,
> That is quite an accomplishment. Congratulations and keep on going!
> Do you have one of those colored in USA maps on your KF like they have
> on
> RVs?
>
> Don Pearsall
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> SOURDOSTAN@aol.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Landings in 49 States
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: SOURDOSTAN@aol.com
>
> I thought I'd share a recent accomplishment of mine with the List. As
> of
> last Thursday, my third anniversary of the first flight in my Kitfox
> Model
> IV
> Speedster, I have 750 hours on the tach and have made landings in 49
> states
> (haven't given up on Hawaii...yet!).
>
> Some highlights include going to the Desert Fox Squadron Fly-in the day
> after
> flying off my 40 hours, following Cliff Begnaud over "The Rock" to
> Utah and
> Arizona. Second, accompanying John King and a fantastic group of guys
> to
> Alaska in 2002. Third, to Sun 'n' Fun and the Southeast in the spring
> of
> 2003.
> Fourth, flying with Robert Oliver to the Cameron Park Fly-in and then
> into
> the
> backcountry strips of Idaho. Then there were the three trips to
> Oshkosh,
> and
> beyond. This year I flew from Oshkosh on to my high school class
> reunion
> near
> Ithaca, New York, including landing on my deceased dad's airstrip
> where I
> learned to fly back in the 60's. The trip included flying to all the
> New
> England
> states and down to Kitty Hawk, the most spiritual of all places to
> land (
> and a
> little exciting, too, with the winds!). And, finally, last week I
> made it
> to
> Mandan, North Dakota, my 49th state, with a stopover in the Black
> Hills on
> the way back home. I should also include all the Young Eagle flights
> I've
> really enjoyed over the past three years.
>
> The best part of my travels is meeting all the fine folks along the
> way,
> including many of you, and the wonderful people ready and willing to
> lend
> support
> at each stop. Those folks in Canada are beyond description!!!
>
> Where to next? I'm in the process of landing at all the public
> airports in
> Colorado (landed at 44 of 78), going to all the Regional EAA fly-ins
> (over
> halfway there) and returning to Alaska next summer. (Robert Oliver
> and I
> are
> organizing a trip - want to go?)
>
> So, if you or anyone you know has also landed a Kitfox in all 48
> conterminous
> states plus Alaska, I'd love to hear from you so we can compare notes.
>
> Love that Rotax 912ul - it just keeps on ticking!!
>
> Stan Specht
> N16KC "Columbine"
> Kitfox Model IV Speedster 912ul
> Denver, Colorado
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Thanks, Ted. When I read about the weight issue last night, and after
previously studying the drawings that were confusing to the max, I was
ready to abandon the whole idea. Now I'm beginning to get revved up
again.
The confusing part about the drawings were that some of them showed 4
bearings, 3 of which were 10-32, and one was 1/4-28. The other drawing
showed 3 bearings, all of which were 1/4-28, but screwed into the
extended bushings in the tail post. My plane has the 1/4-28's, but with
the short bushings welded into the tail post....most confusing...to me
at least. It seems as though someone has gathered drawings from here,
reprints of manual pages from there, and interspersed them with the
original pages of the manual.
Bottom line is, with the suggestions I've gathered from this group, it
seems like a doable deal, and not that difficult. I was thinking that
I'd have to follow the exact airfoil shape of the plans, but it seems
like they can be altered somewhat, eh?
Lynn
On Wednesday, September 1, 2004, at 01:26 PM, flier wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I've basically got a IV longwing 912 with all the
> Speedster stuff. CG is tail biased. My tail ribs
> are about half the profile of the Speedster ribs.
> Without the longer post bushings I did that to get
> the rudder spar gap seal radius right and to have a
> nice flowing airfoil profile from the front of the
> vert stab back across the rudder. My rudder spar
> radius is balsa and my stab and rudder ribs are ply.
> The channel that the rudder radius fits in is made of
> two pieces of aluminum angle on a ply face bonded to
> the back of the stab spar. Altogether it added just
> a couple of pounds.
>
> Ted
>
>
> --- Original Message ---
> From: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Speedster vertical stab
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul
> <pwilson@climber.org>
>>
>> Fits later - no way - IMO.
>> The question really is why wouldnt a Speedster have
> an issue. A M4 long wing 912 with all the speedster
> stuff probably would have a fwd cg issue not an aft
> one. A M4 short wing 912 with speedster stuff would
> be the same as a factory Speedster. Ribblet (sp) did
> not specify the airfoil tail surfaces without a good
> reason. Who knows his reasons. Handling?
>> Cg wise with an engine lighter than a 912 then an
> aft cg might be an issue. So move stuff forward and
> compensate.
>> But lighter is always a goal. Not sure if foam is
> lighter than plywood with lightening holes??
>>
>> Paul
>> ===========
>> At 10:36 PM -0400 8/31/04, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
> <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>>
>>> Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL
> cause me fits later on,
>>> when it comes to balance. But what about Ron's (N55
> KF) suggestion that
>>> the tail will fishtail if left flat? I'm sure there
> are a bunch of
>>> "flat" verticals out there...how are yours
> handling? I like the looks
>>> of the airfoiled verticals, but it IS a lot of work
> at this stage of
>>> building (rudder is now flat and covered, and has
> been Poly-sprayed),
>>> and I really could spend my time doing unfinished
> work instead of
>>> undoing other's work (recall that I'm the 4th owner
> of this still VERY
>>> unfinished plane).
>>> Lynn
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> _-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>> _-
> ======================================================
> ==================
>> _-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> list
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>> _-
> ======================================================
> ==================
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Slightly bent landing gear |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Torgeir Mortensen wrote:
> So- I'm quite sure you'll have the real "historical" one. :))
Then it will be indeed a great honour for me, Torgeir!
Michel
do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Lynn,
I have some experience with RC models and have ripped
the wings off a few due to flutter and such so I was
focused on trying not to do something that would kill
me. With that said, I didn't know how it was gonna
fly until that first flight.
I measured the distance between the rudder and stab
spars and adding in some swing clearance gave me the
max radius of the rudder gapseal. That radius
established the forward width of the rudder ribs and
the aft width of the spar ribs. It's not much wider
than the stab spar spar. I then did full size
templates in a simple CAD program for the ribs taking
into consideration those two widths. Frankly, my
airfoil cross-section is a 'Callahan' special. It
flies great but I was the test pilot for certain...
Regards,
Ted
--- Original Message ---
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Speedster vertical stab
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
<lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
>Thanks, Ted. When I read about the weight issue last
night, and after
>previously studying the drawings that were confusing
to the max, I was
>ready to abandon the whole idea. Now I'm beginning
to get revved up
>again.
>The confusing part about the drawings were that some
of them showed 4
>bearings, 3 of which were 10-32, and one was 1/4-28.
The other drawing
>showed 3 bearings, all of which were 1/4-28, but
screwed into the
>extended bushings in the tail post. My plane has the
1/4-28's, but with
>the short bushings welded into the tail post....most
confusing...to me
>at least. It seems as though someone has gathered
drawings from here,
>reprints of manual pages from there, and
interspersed them with the
>original pages of the manual.
>Bottom line is, with the suggestions I've gathered
from this group, it
>seems like a doable deal, and not that difficult. I
was thinking that
>I'd have to follow the exact airfoil shape of the
plans, but it seems
>like they can be altered somewhat, eh?
>Lynn
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Trouble with 912 UL |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Kirk,
This is kind of interesting, the black moist in the carbs is quite normal
for this kind of carburetor, however, I only know the similar one's used
to be installed in cars. I'll think this one is quite equal to the SU
carbs. -also used in Volvo cars.
Since you have the difference when idling, there is probably a leak, or a
leaky valve on the right side. The black mist in the balancing line is
prob. due to the difference pressure during idling-, as there will be a
flow toward the carb. with the "higher" pressure (toward the right carb).
A known failure with this kind of carb's is the diaphragm, over time they
start leaking as they develop tiny pinholes. It's very important to
frequently change the diaphragm.
Such fault will give rough running engine, esp. in the lower rev. band,
also the engine will run rich on the involved half.
As you run up the engine the intake flow will increase much, in other
words - a small leakage have low influence here.
A compression check is in place here.
Good luck.
Torgeir.
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:45:32 -0500, Kirk Martenson <kirk@mninter.net>
wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kirk Martenson" <kirk@mninter.net>
>
> I am still having trouble with my Rotax 912UL equipped classic IV.
> Slight cutting out at cruise rpm.
>
> I replaced the sparkplugs, plug wires, and three bad coils. I rebuilt
> the carbs as well. Still no fix.
>
> I did a manometer test on the carbs and found at idle the right carb has
> a lot less vacuum than the left. At full rpm, and at one inch of
> throttle less ( as per the book) the levels are the same. A guy that
> was helping me with the procedure thinks that I may have a bad or stuck
> valve.
>
> When I rebuilt the carbs, I noticed a black mist on the inside of the
> carb up by the diaphragm. When I took off the balance tube between the
> carbs the black film was on the inside of that as well. Has anyone else
> ever see this before? I wonder if that black film is sticking to the
> valves?
>
> I am going to do a compression test next to determine if I have bad
> valves or bad rings.
>
> Any advise?
>
>
> Kirk Martenson
> Classic IV
>
>
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Lycoming prop flange |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Flybradair@cs.com
Any of you guys know what the lycoming l2c bolt pattern is for ordering the
prop? (SAE #1 vs SAE #2)
The tag that hung on my engine (used) said to order for a SAE 1 flange,
which should be a bolt circle diameter of 4 3/8 inches.
The bolt circle diameter on my engine is actually 4 3/4--according to my
info this would be a SAE 2 flange.
Did the l2c come out both ways from the factory? Or did someone change the
crank on this thing?
Confused--but still plugging away.
Brad Martin
Wichita
5 lyc o235l2c
Wiring (and trying to order a prop)
Ps--Thanks for all the help with everything guys.
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Landings in 49 States |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Stan (Fox Three),
Now that you have flown to Alaska why not join us in November for a tour of the
Bahamas, Caicos and Grand Turk, from the far North to the far South. Right now
there are two Kitfoxes and two RV's ready to depart on November 1st.
--
John King
Bird Dog One
SOURDOSTAN@aol.com wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: SOURDOSTAN@aol.com
>
>I thought I'd share a recent accomplishment of mine with the List. As of
>last Thursday, my third anniversary of the first flight in my Kitfox Model IV
>Speedster, I have 750 hours on the tach and have made landings in 49 states
>(haven't given up on Hawaii...yet!).
>
>Some highlights include going to the Desert Fox Squadron Fly-in the day after
>flying off my 40 hours, following Cliff Begnaud over "The Rock" to Utah and
>Arizona. Second, accompanying John King and a fantastic group of guys to
>Alaska in 2002. Third, to Sun 'n' Fun and the Southeast in the spring of 2003.
>Fourth, flying with Robert Oliver to the Cameron Park Fly-in and then into the
>backcountry strips of Idaho. Then there were the three trips to Oshkosh, and
>beyond. This year I flew from Oshkosh on to my high school class reunion near
>Ithaca, New York, including landing on my deceased dad's airstrip where I
>learned to fly back in the 60's. The trip included flying to all the New England
>states and down to Kitty Hawk, the most spiritual of all places to land ( and
a
>little exciting, too, with the winds!). And, finally, last week I made it to
>Mandan, North Dakota, my 49th state, with a stopover in the Black Hills on
>the way back home. I should also include all the Young Eagle flights I've
>really enjoyed over the past three years.
>
>The best part of my travels is meeting all the fine folks along the way,
>including many of you, and the wonderful people ready and willing to lend support
>at each stop. Those folks in Canada are beyond description!!!
>
>Where to next? I'm in the process of landing at all the public airports in
>Colorado (landed at 44 of 78), going to all the Regional EAA fly-ins (over
>halfway there) and returning to Alaska next summer. (Robert Oliver and I are
>organizing a trip - want to go?)
>
>So, if you or anyone you know has also landed a Kitfox in all 48 conterminous
>states plus Alaska, I'd love to hear from you so we can compare notes.
>
>Love that Rotax 912ul - it just keeps on ticking!!
>
>Stan Specht
>N16KC "Columbine"
>Kitfox Model IV Speedster 912ul
>Denver, Colorado
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Lynn,
As I said before my Model IV has no ribs in the vertical fin and rudder, but my
Series 6 did have them installed. I noticed no appreciable change in performance
relative to rudder handling.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Lynn Matteson wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
>Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL cause me fits later on,
>when it comes to balance. But what about Ron's (N55 KF) suggestion that
>the tail will fishtail if left flat? I'm sure there are a bunch of
>"flat" verticals out there...how are yours handling? I like the looks
>of the airfoiled verticals, but it IS a lot of work at this stage of
>building (rudder is now flat and covered, and has been Poly-sprayed),
>and I really could spend my time doing unfinished work instead of
>undoing other's work (recall that I'm the 4th owner of this still VERY
>unfinished plane).
>Lynn
>On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 08:31 PM, AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>>
>>In a message dated 8/31/04 5:21:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>>kingjohne@adelphia.net writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>accommodate the electric trim system. The model IV tends to be tail
>>>heavy and Skystar advised me not to do it and save a little weight.
>>>One
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I had installed the full speedster mod on my Classic IV
>>(Vertical/Horizontal)
>>when I received the same advice that the model IV tended to be too tail
>>heavy. I ripped out all the speedster mods for the vertical
>>stabilizer and rudder.
>> Weight and balance came in OK. An awful lot to work to install and
>>then rip
>>out...
>>
>>Don Smythe
>>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad scoop |
to my Lite2/582
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Thanks for posting all of this detail Gary. I have a Classic IV
Speedster/582 and I have a scoop moulding but it has never been fitted as
yet. So your very complete description will no doubt be very helpfull.
I had looked at the situation and was worried how it would work because on
the left side underneath the cowl hangs about 2" low to let the hot air out
under the plane. I think I had decided it was too hard, but I might take
another look now.
Rex Shaw
Australia.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Lycoming prop flange |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
I believe it is SAE 2, the Cont. is SAE 1
Dee Young
Model II N345DY
Do not Archive
>From: Flybradair@cs.com
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Lycoming prop flange
>Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 19:54:51 EDT
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Flybradair@cs.com
>
> Any of you guys know what the lycoming l2c bolt pattern is for ordering
>the
>prop? (SAE #1 vs SAE #2)
>
> The tag that hung on my engine (used) said to order for a SAE 1 flange,
>which should be a bolt circle diameter of 4 3/8 inches.
>
> The bolt circle diameter on my engine is actually 4 3/4--according to my
>info this would be a SAE 2 flange.
>
> Did the l2c come out both ways from the factory? Or did someone change
>the
>crank on this thing?
>
> Confused--but still plugging away.
> Brad Martin
> Wichita
> 5 lyc o235l2c
> Wiring (and trying to order a prop)
>
> Ps--Thanks for all the help with everything guys.
>
>
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Paul, I didn't know the tail of the Speedster was designed outside of SS's
engineering. My guess for the design was to compliment the word "Speedster"
= lots of drag reduction with consideration for the results of the drag
reduction - higher speeds.
I engineered my airfoil much like Ted did, but by simply deciding what I
needed for the gap closure and then clamping a piece of aluminum bar on the
leading and trailing edges of the rudder and stabilizer and tracing for the
foam ribs. The gap closure is of the 1/4" foam also and the similar gap
closure of the horizontal stab - elevator can be seen at: Keep in mind that
the hinging of the rudder makes the gap seal not so much of an engineering
nightmare.
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1041348095
The photos show at least part of the vertical gap seal - total width 1.25",
and I have pegged the speedo at 120 without a hint of flutter, which was a
testing priority during the first 40 hours
Lowell
My set-up reduces the baggage sack max about 5 lbs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul" <pwilson@climber.org>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Speedster vertical stab
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
>
> Fits later - no way - IMO.
> The question really is why wouldnt a Speedster have an issue. A M4 long
wing 912 with all the speedster stuff probably would have a fwd cg issue not
an aft one. A M4 short wing 912 with speedster stuff would be the same as a
factory Speedster. Ribblet (sp) did not specify the airfoil tail surfaces
without a good reason. Who knows his reasons. Handling?
> Cg wise with an engine lighter than a 912 then an aft cg might be an
issue. So move stuff forward and compensate.
> But lighter is always a goal. Not sure if foam is lighter than plywood
with lightening holes??
>
> Paul
> ===========
> At 10:36 PM -0400 8/31/04, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> >
> >Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL cause me fits later on,
> >when it comes to balance. But what about Ron's (N55 KF) suggestion that
> >the tail will fishtail if left flat? I'm sure there are a bunch of
> >"flat" verticals out there...how are yours handling? I like the looks
> >of the airfoiled verticals, but it IS a lot of work at this stage of
> >building (rudder is now flat and covered, and has been Poly-sprayed),
> >and I really could spend my time doing unfinished work instead of
> >undoing other's work (recall that I'm the 4th owner of this still VERY
> >unfinished plane).
> >Lynn
> >
>
> --
>
>
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
I engineered my airfoil much like Ted did, but by simply deciding what I
needed for the gap closure and then clamping a piece of aluminum bar on the
leading and trailing edges of the rudder and stabilizer and tracing for the
foam ribs. The gap closure is of the 1/4" foam also and the similar gap
closure of the horizontal stab - elevator can be seen at:
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1041348095
Keep in mind that
the hinging of the rudder makes the gap seal not so much of an engineering
nightmare.
The photos show at least part of the vertical gap seal - total width 1.25",
and I have pegged the speedo at 120 without a hint of flutter, which was a
testing priority during the first 40 hours.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Speedster vertical stab
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I've basically got a IV longwing 912 with all the
> Speedster stuff. CG is tail biased. My tail ribs
> are about half the profile of the Speedster ribs.
> Without the longer post bushings I did that to get
> the rudder spar gap seal radius right and to have a
> nice flowing airfoil profile from the front of the
> vert stab back across the rudder. My rudder spar
> radius is balsa and my stab and rudder ribs are ply.
> The channel that the rudder radius fits in is made of
> two pieces of aluminum angle on a ply face bonded to
> the back of the stab spar. Altogether it added just
> a couple of pounds.
>
> Ted
>
>
> --- Original Message ---
> From: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Speedster vertical stab
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul
> <pwilson@climber.org>
> >
> >Fits later - no way - IMO.
> > The question really is why wouldnt a Speedster have
> an issue. A M4 long wing 912 with all the speedster
> stuff probably would have a fwd cg issue not an aft
> one. A M4 short wing 912 with speedster stuff would
> be the same as a factory Speedster. Ribblet (sp) did
> not specify the airfoil tail surfaces without a good
> reason. Who knows his reasons. Handling?
> > Cg wise with an engine lighter than a 912 then an
> aft cg might be an issue. So move stuff forward and
> compensate.
> > But lighter is always a goal. Not sure if foam is
> lighter than plywood with lightening holes??
> >
> > Paul
> >===========
> >At 10:36 PM -0400 8/31/04, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
> <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> >>
> >>Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL
> cause me fits later on,
> >>when it comes to balance. But what about Ron's (N55
> KF) suggestion that
> >>the tail will fishtail if left flat? I'm sure there
> are a bunch of
> >>"flat" verticals out there...how are yours
> handling? I like the looks
> >>of the airfoiled verticals, but it IS a lot of work
> at this stage of
> >>building (rudder is now flat and covered, and has
> been Poly-sprayed),
> >>and I really could spend my time doing unfinished
> work instead of
> >>undoing other's work (recall that I'm the 4th owner
> of this still VERY
> >>unfinished plane).
> >>Lynn
> >>
> >
> >--
> >
> >
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> list
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> >_-
> ======================================================
> ==================
> >
> >
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Bortree" <plane@rtmc.net>
try to get it on the local news or on crime stoppers if you have it there
maybe offer a reward
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bradley Johnston" <bradley.johnston@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bradley Johnston"
<bradley.johnston@rogers.com>
>
> Post on Barnstormers.com ?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Stolen Rotax 912 ULS Engine
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer"
<morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
> >
> > Wow Gary! Big bummer. I think the first thing I'd do is make a list of
> > EVERYONE who knew I had it, then narrow that list down to the ones who I
> > though MIGHT possibly have the propensity for doing something like that.
> > Also, keep an eye on ebay, barnstormers, trade a plane, etc for 912s for
> > sale. Probably lots of other things you can do too. Maybe even a call
to
> > EAA might yield an idea or two.
> > Where was it located when it was stolen?
> > Darrel
> >
> > > I just had my NEW Rotax 912 engine stolen. The serial # is 4427002.
> Does
> > > anyone on the list know if there is a place I can report this engine
> > stolen
> > > that might help keep it from being sold?
> > > I have reported this to my local PD, I am just looking to put the word
> out
> > > in our community.
> > > Thanks
> > > Gary Randall
> > > S7
> > > Aberdeen, WA
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Fairnings - Was Speedster Vertical Stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
One additional thought about gap seals fairings etc.
Most of these modifications are intended to increase cruise speeds. In this they
are quite successful, but the recent trip - flight of eight from California
to Oshkosh brings up another benefit. One of our group flies a Rans with a 20
gallon tank. Obviously his range dictated to a large extent our leg range -
that an our ?? oz. bladders. At most fuel stops my fuel consumption was watched
pretty closely because of an early trip when I took 7.7 gallons for the flight
from My airport to the departure airport - about 20 miles then the three
hour flight to Winnemucca, NV. The next lowest top off was 11 gallons.
The Rans pilot was a bit concerned near the end of one leg with his reserves and
after fueling, he kicked the ground after seeing my top off total. The most
fuel I ever purchased on this trip was 15.7 gallons. Most of my fuelings were
in the 9-11 gallon range.
In short, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to airfoil the vertical stab.- rudder,
or do any other fairing. After 600 hours with a lot of it in loose formation
with other Model IVs all powered with Rotax 912s, my experience suggests that
it has benefits in speed, if you want it, fuel economy/range, if you want that
and even climb as my Model IV- heavy, at least in my circle, has shown. Drag
will hurt in all areas.
Lowell
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Sorry for the double post - it took 4 hours in the super highway and I
thought it might be permanently in a roadside rest somewhere.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Speedster vertical stab
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
> I engineered my airfoil much like Ted did, but by simply deciding what I
> needed for the gap closure and then clamping a piece of aluminum bar on
the
> leading and trailing edges of the rudder and stabilizer and tracing for
the
> foam ribs. The gap closure is of the 1/4" foam also and the similar gap
> closure of the horizontal stab - elevator can be seen at:
>
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1041348095
>
> Keep in mind that
> the hinging of the rudder makes the gap seal not so much of an engineering
> nightmare.
>
>
> The photos show at least part of the vertical gap seal - total width
1.25",
> and I have pegged the speedo at 120 without a hint of flutter, which was a
> testing priority during the first 40 hours.
>
> Lowell
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>; <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Speedster vertical stab
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> > I've basically got a IV longwing 912 with all the
> > Speedster stuff. CG is tail biased. My tail ribs
> > are about half the profile of the Speedster ribs.
> > Without the longer post bushings I did that to get
> > the rudder spar gap seal radius right and to have a
> > nice flowing airfoil profile from the front of the
> > vert stab back across the rudder. My rudder spar
> > radius is balsa and my stab and rudder ribs are ply.
> > The channel that the rudder radius fits in is made of
> > two pieces of aluminum angle on a ply face bonded to
> > the back of the stab spar. Altogether it added just
> > a couple of pounds.
> >
> > Ted
> >
> >
> > --- Original Message ---
> > From: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Speedster vertical stab
> >
> > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul
> > <pwilson@climber.org>
> > >
> > >Fits later - no way - IMO.
> > > The question really is why wouldnt a Speedster have
> > an issue. A M4 long wing 912 with all the speedster
> > stuff probably would have a fwd cg issue not an aft
> > one. A M4 short wing 912 with speedster stuff would
> > be the same as a factory Speedster. Ribblet (sp) did
> > not specify the airfoil tail surfaces without a good
> > reason. Who knows his reasons. Handling?
> > > Cg wise with an engine lighter than a 912 then an
> > aft cg might be an issue. So move stuff forward and
> > compensate.
> > > But lighter is always a goal. Not sure if foam is
> > lighter than plywood with lightening holes??
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >===========
> > >At 10:36 PM -0400 8/31/04, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> > >>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
> > <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> > >>
> > >>Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL
> > cause me fits later on,
> > >>when it comes to balance. But what about Ron's (N55
> > KF) suggestion that
> > >>the tail will fishtail if left flat? I'm sure there
> > are a bunch of
> > >>"flat" verticals out there...how are yours
> > handling? I like the looks
> > >>of the airfoiled verticals, but it IS a lot of work
> > at this stage of
> > >>building (rudder is now flat and covered, and has
> > been Poly-sprayed),
> > >>and I really could spend my time doing unfinished
> > work instead of
> > >>undoing other's work (recall that I'm the 4th owner
> > of this still VERY
> > >>unfinished plane).
> > >>Lynn
> > >>
> > >
> > >--
> > >
> > >
> > >_-
> > ======================================================
> > ==================
> > Contributions
> > any other
> > Forums.
> > >_-
> > ======================================================
> > ==================
> > >_-
> > ======================================================
> > ==================
> > http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> > http://www.matronics.com/archives
> > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> > list
> > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
> > >_-
> > ======================================================
> > ==================
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL cause me fits |
later on,
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Lynn,
If your tail is built and it is flat I suggest you leave it at this
stage. Surely it's not much harder to change later if you so desire. My
Classic IV Speedster/582 has been built flat and it's fine. One other thing
though I wonder if you check you might find the elevator is higher one side
than the other. Not real sure which way it goes but when there was
discussion on list recently I checked mine and sure enough there is about
1/2" difference at the trailing edge. So if you find this don't be
concerned. I believe it was stated to stop a dead spot at neutral setting
and pitch wander in cruise.
Rex Shaw
Australia.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: I mentioned previously that I had fitted a Skystar Rad |
scoop...
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 9/1/04 5:39:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rexjan@bigpond.com writes:
> the left side underneath the cowl hangs about 2" low to let the hot air out
> under the plane. I think I had decided it was too hard, but I might take
> another look now.
>
Rex,
I too have the Classic IV w/582. I experimented with my radiator and
found that lowering the radiator so the 2" cowl outlet blows over the top of the
radiator fixes the high temp problem. My fix was temporary but worked like a
champ. I now have it back where is originally was and the high heat problem
is back. I plan to get back on the job and relocate it where it works. Also,
I did not see any difference with the rad lowered to that point. Adding a
scoop (I don't have) would also help.
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL cause |
me fits...
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 9/1/04 6:36:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rexjan@bigpond.com writes:
> 1/2" difference at the trailing edge. So if you find this don't be
> concerned. I believe it was stated to stop a dead spot at neutral setting
> and pitch wander in cruise
That 1/2" is built into the elevator trailing edge and is supposed to be
there. However, there is another bend on the elevator (was on mine anyway) that
is
not supposed to be there. The fwd edge where the hinges are located is
supposed to be absolutely straight. The Skystar welding process may cause this
fwd
edge to have a bend near the center. The fwd edge should be straight so a
straight line will pass through all the hinge sections. If not straight, apply
some light pressure until it is.
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: Speedster vertical stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Ok, thanks, John. So it sounds like I can do it if I want to, but if I
decide not to, the plane will handle fine without the air-foiled
mods...good enough. Now I can make a decision based on looks and my
desire to "customize" the plane, versus getting it done and in the
air...in the distant future. : )
Lynn
On Wednesday, September 1, 2004, at 08:31 PM, John King wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
>
> Lynn,
>
> As I said before my Model IV has no ribs in the vertical fin and
> rudder, but my Series 6 did have them installed. I noticed no
> appreciable change in performance relative to rudder handling.
>
> --
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL cause me fits later on,
>> when it comes to balance. But what about Ron's (N55 KF) suggestion
>> that
>> the tail will fishtail if left flat? I'm sure there are a bunch of
>> "flat" verticals out there...how are yours handling? I like the looks
>> of the airfoiled verticals, but it IS a lot of work at this stage of
>> building (rudder is now flat and covered, and has been Poly-sprayed),
>> and I really could spend my time doing unfinished work instead of
>> undoing other's work (recall that I'm the 4th owner of this still VERY
>> unfinished plane).
>> Lynn
>> On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 08:31 PM, AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>>>
>>> In a message dated 8/31/04 5:21:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>>> kingjohne@adelphia.net writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> accommodate the electric trim system. The model IV tends to be tail
>>>> heavy and Skystar advised me not to do it and save a little weight.
>>>> One
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I had installed the full speedster mod on my Classic IV
>>> (Vertical/Horizontal)
>>> when I received the same advice that the model IV tended to be too
>>> tail
>>> heavy. I ripped out all the speedster mods for the vertical
>>> stabilizer and rudder.
>>> Weight and balance came in OK. An awful lot to work to install and
>>> then rip
>>> out...
>>>
>>> Don Smythe
>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Knight Aircraft Upholstery/Interiors |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Sam Knight <knightair@lv.rmci.net>
Kitfox Builders:
I have been in the upholstery business for 30 years and have been making
upholstery products for kitplanes for 18 years. I have interior kits
available for the Model I, Model II, Model III, Model IV, Lite (Squared),
Series 5, Series 6, Vixen, and the Ultralight plus Sky Raider Ultralight. I
also have cabin covers and other items. A list of other kitplane interior
products available upon request.
For more information, call Knight Aircraft Interiors, Inc., at (702)
207-6681 or e mail me at knightair@lv.rmci.net. If you e-mail for
information, please mention either "Knight" or "Upholstery" in your
reference line so I can give your request my immediate attention. Photos
available upon request.
Sincerely,
KNIGHT AIRCRAFT INTERIORS, INC.
"Fly by Knight" Upholstery Products
Sam Knight
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fairnings - Was Speedster Vertical Stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Boy you said all the right things to make me want to build the
'foil/fairings, Lowell. I'm a nut for numbers, and anything I can do to
improve fuel mileage, etc., is a plus.
Speaking of bladders, before I owned the present motorhome (which got
12-14.5 mpg both ways on my recent Texas trip @ 55-65 mph), I had an
older '79 Toyota with a pair of tanks totaling 36 gallons, and it got
about 14-15 mpg...needless to say, before that 36 gallons was gone,
nearly 500 miles had passed, and I was crossing my legs in the
"cockpit", just dyin' to stop!
Lynn
do not archive
On Wednesday, September 1, 2004, at 09:27 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
> One additional thought about gap seals fairings etc.
>
> Most of these modifications are intended to increase cruise speeds.
> In this they are quite successful, but the recent trip - flight of
> eight from California to Oshkosh brings up another benefit. One of
> our group flies a Rans with a 20 gallon tank. Obviously his range
> dictated to a large extent our leg range - that an our ?? oz.
> bladders. At most fuel stops my fuel consumption was watched pretty
> closely because of an early trip when I took 7.7 gallons for the
> flight from My airport to the departure airport - about 20 miles then
> the three hour flight to Winnemucca, NV. The next lowest top off was
> 11 gallons.
>
> The Rans pilot was a bit concerned near the end of one leg with his
> reserves and after fueling, he kicked the ground after seeing my top
> off total. The most fuel I ever purchased on this trip was 15.7
> gallons. Most of my fuelings were in the 9-11 gallon range.
>
> In short, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to airfoil the vertical
> stab.- rudder, or do any other fairing. After 600 hours with a lot of
> it in loose formation with other Model IVs all powered with Rotax
> 912s, my experience suggests that it has benefits in speed, if you
> want it, fuel economy/range, if you want that and even climb as my
> Model IV- heavy, at least in my circle, has shown. Drag will hurt in
> all areas.
>
> Lowell
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Ok, maybe I'm trying to do something that WILL cause |
me fits later on,
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Thanks for the head's up, Rex. I had read about that 1/2", and it
wasn't clear to me what they were referring to. The book says that "the
15027 Elevator Weldment...blah, blah, blah, and I was looking all ove
the rear fuse for this weldment, and couldn't see what was 1/2"
out-of-whack. Why the hell didn't they just say the elevator is warped?
THAT language I can unnerstan, fur cryin' out loud!
I thought a weldment was a bracket that was welded on to a larger part.
That's the problem in coming in on a partially done job...you haven't
seen all the parts numbers, associated those numbers with the part and
the description, therefore you don't know what THEY are calling
something. It's probably just my lack of experience with the "full
size" planes that makes me want to call an elevator an elevator.
Lynn
p.s. I'll leave it that way for now, but before it's covered, I'll
probably have to get my feet wet. : )
On Wednesday, September 1, 2004, at 09:37 PM, Rex & Jan Shaw wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw"
> <rexjan@bigpond.com>
>
> Lynn,
> If your tail is built and it is flat I suggest you leave it
> at this
> stage. Surely it's not much harder to change later if you so desire. My
> Classic IV Speedster/582 has been built flat and it's fine. One other
> thing
> though I wonder if you check you might find the elevator is higher one
> side
> than the other. Not real sure which way it goes but when there was
> discussion on list recently I checked mine and sure enough there is
> about
> 1/2" difference at the trailing edge. So if you find this don't be
> concerned. I believe it was stated to stop a dead spot at neutral
> setting
> and pitch wander in cruise.
>
> Rex Shaw
>
> Australia.
> rexjan@bigpond.com
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 47
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|
| Subject: | ivo adjustable prop on nsi engine? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Eric Osmond <eoeonote@yahoo.com>
Hi all,
I'm still trying to research my prop options on a model IV-1200 with
nsi ea-81 engine. I started looking at the IVO in-flight adjustable prop. Has
anyone had any experience running an IVO in-flight adjustable on an EA-81 engine.
Thanks for any input or advice.
Eric
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Fairnings - Was Speedster Vertical Stab |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Brian Peck <u2drvr@dslextreme.com>
Lynn,
I don't think airfoiling the vertical stabilizer will necessarily
improve fuel economy, but sealing the gap definitely will. The main
reason for an airfoiled stab is horizontal stability. A symmetric
airfoil on the vertical stab will provide an horizontal aerodynamic
force toward the neutral point, in other words, a centering
force...this is called positive stability.
With the flat tail, a small displacement will not have this centering
force and the aircraft will fly happily in a yawed condition until the
rudder is displaced to bring it back to neutral...this is called
neutral stability.
At the slow speeds we fly, the forces we are talking about are small,
so unless you are specifically looking for it, you probably wouldn't
notice the difference. Someone who has flown both a lot would likely be
able to tell the difference. The only reason I can see that the
airfoiled tail would improve specific fuel consumption would be the
fact that you would be more likely to fly coordinated with the positive
stability. It may also slightly decrease drag by keeping the airflow
attached, but I doubt the effect would be significant.
Seal the gap, on the other hand will significantly decrease parasite
drag and improve rudder effectiveness.
If it were me, I would do both... it will look and fly better!
Brian Peck
Model 5/IO-240
U-2S/GE F118
T-38/2-J79
On Sep 1, 2004, at 8:15 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Boy you said all the right things to make me want to build the
> 'foil/fairings, Lowell. I'm a nut for numbers, and anything I can do to
> improve fuel mileage, etc., is a plus.
Message 49
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|
| Subject: | More Rad Scoop testing :-) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Way to go Gary!
Yes, it is hard to find a power setting you can
closely match with a variable prop. That is why I had
to set full pitch and then a specific rpm with
throttle, or full power and then a specific rpm with
pitch. Was the only way I knew to keep a close
comparison.
I flew again today and tried prolonged climbs on a
warmer day, but had to cut it short for high gear box
temps. Seems I'll need the scoop exhaust door to
extract more air from the cowl, or more cowl exit
area. My coolant temps were still good though.
Right now this is good for below 70 degrees, but it
heats up when working at low speeds and hotter out.
Not yet ready for the Desert Fox Sqdn visit...
Got an alum. scoop door ready to install and test on
Saturday. We'll see if it is enough....
Also been thinking of adding a vent behind the turbo
for Summer ops. Close it off for winter carb heat.
Don't need all that hot air off the turbo going into
my intake now...
Fiddle, fiddle. :-)
I put 2 scoop pics on Sportflight under
"improvements". Will check later to see if they
showed up.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Gary Algate <algate@attglobal.net> wrote:
> Great news Kurt.
>
> I did a few more test last night also and tried to
> come up with more objective results (difficult
> due to combination of variable pitch prop and
> power settings) but I am also seeing closer to an 8
> mph increase in speed.
>
> Gotta love that
>
> Gary
> Lite2/582
__________________________________
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Landings in 49 States |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Nice to see you having such a good time Stan. I
remember our S&F time together on your trip down
there.
During all of this travel, was the gear incident the
only failure you've had? I forgot, but it seems that
you have been a good KitFox ambassador too.
Thanks,
Kurt S.
--- SOURDOSTAN@aol.com wrote:
> I thought I'd share a recent accomplishment of mine
> with the List. As of last Thursday, my third
> anniversary of the first flight in my Kitfox Model
> IV Speedster, I have 750 hours on the tach and have
> made landings in 49 states
> (haven't given up on Hawaii...yet!)........
>
> Stan Specht
> N16KC "Columbine"
> Kitfox Model IV Speedster 912ul
> Denver, Colorado
Message 51
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Lister,
Please read over the Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Kitfox-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Kitfox-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
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