Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:26 AM - Re: S-6 Air Speeds (John Banes)
2. 04:51 AM - Re: Alberta my love (Gill Levesque)
3. 06:37 AM - Re: Kitfox Wings (Bob Unternaehrer)
4. 06:46 AM - 582 rate of climb (jareds)
5. 07:24 AM - Re: Kitfox Wings (Lowell Fitt)
6. 07:30 AM - Re: Side air outlets (Paul)
7. 07:30 AM - Re: Side air outlets (Paul)
8. 07:39 AM - Re: Anyone going to Greenville? (msg.03.05.04.23:58:57.16097 msg.03.12.04.23:58:55.10542 msg.04.01.04.23:58:44.3779 msg.05.03.04.23:58:54.20080 msg.05.31.04.23:59:08.12138 msg.09.06.04.04:26:28.18723 msg.09.06.04.04:51:30.13581 msg.09.06.04.06:37:34.17571 msg.09.06.04.06:46:33.28393 msg.09.06.04.07:24:59.4408 msg.09.06.04.07:30:35.13077 msg.09.06.04.07:30:35.13091 msg.09.06.04.07:39:45.32253 msg.09.06.04.07:42:02.5757 msg.09.06.04.07:47:30.21802 msg.09.06.04.07:58:25.15169 msg.09.06.04.08:10:35.7614 msg.09.06.04.08:12:33.15785 msg.09.06.04.08:15:59.24327 msg.09.06.04.08:25:24.12852 msg.09.06.04.08:29:55.19965 msg.09.06.04.08:55:38.12802 msg.09.06.04.09:44:18.24200 msg.09.06.04.10:01:15.18448 msg.09.06.04.10:11:26.6147 msg.09.06.04.10:14:22.11602 msg.09.06.04.10:56:33.2831 msg.09.06.04.11:28:18.16242 msg.09.06.04.11:30:20.21063 msg.09.06.04.11:54:37.9878 msg.09.06.04.12:23:02.10087 msg.09.06.04.13:31:46.31295 msg.09.06.04.13:35:10.4446 msg.09.06.04.13:38:48.13683 msg.09.06.04.13:48:09.28745 msg.09.06.04.13:56:37.20673 msg.09.06.04.14:38:30.15273 msg.09.06.04.16:12:04.24297 msg.09.06.04.16:31:28.19763 msg.09.06.04.16:44:54.3237 msg.09.06.04.18:06:23.24327 msg.09.06.04.18:37:02.28070 msg.09.06.04.18:47:22.12632 msg.09.06.04.18:51:59.25283 msg.09.06.04.19:51:19.24630 msg.09.06.04.20:28:09.23956 msg.09.06.04.20:58:55.3692 msg.09.06.04.22:28:38.26767 msg.09.06.04.22:42:31.15144 msg.12.04.03.23:59:58.12870 msg.12.06.03.23:58:57.10517 web_browse.day.0 web_browse.day.1 web_browse.day.2 web_browse.day.3 web_browse.day.4 web_browse.day.5 web_browse.day.6)
9. 07:42 AM - Re: 582 rate of climb (Lowell Fitt)
10. 07:47 AM - Re: Kitfox Wings (Jose M. Toro)
11. 07:58 AM - Re: Kitfox Wings (kurt schrader)
12. 08:10 AM - Re: Alberta my love (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
13. 08:12 AM - Re: 582 rate of climb (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
14. 08:15 AM - Re: Kitfox Wings (Jose M. Toro)
15. 08:25 AM - Re: 582 rate of climb (jareds)
16. 08:29 AM - Re: Kitfox Wings (kurt schrader)
17. 08:55 AM - Re: Kitfox Wings (Jose M. Toro)
18. 09:44 AM - Spar reenforcement attachment (KITFOXPILOT@att.net)
19. 10:01 AM - Re: 582 rate of climb (Michel Verheughe)
20. 10:11 AM - Kitfox flight (Joel Mapes)
21. 10:14 AM - News from Jabiru Norway (Michel Verheughe)
22. 10:56 AM - Re: News from Jabiru Norway (Steve Cooper)
23. 11:28 AM - Jab-fox WAS: News from Jabiru Norway (Michel Verheughe)
24. 11:30 AM - Re: 582 rate of climb (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
25. 11:54 AM - Terra installation and user manuals. (Torgeir Mortensen)
26. 12:23 PM - Re: Terra installation and user manuals. (Torgeir Mortensen)
27. 01:31 PM - Re: ivo adjustable prop on nsi engine? (Jim Crowder)
28. 01:35 PM - Re: Anyone going to Greenville? (Lynn Matteson)
29. 01:38 PM - Document about changes between Kitfox variants. (Torgeir Mortensen)
30. 01:48 PM - flaperon bracket mounting...IV (Lynn Matteson)
31. 01:56 PM - Re: Document about changes between Kitfox variants. (Kurt A. Schumacher)
32. 02:38 PM - Re: flaperon bracket mounting...IV (John King)
33. 04:12 PM - Re: flaperon bracket mounting...IV (Steve Zakreski)
34. 04:31 PM - Re: flaperon bracket mounting...IV (Lynn Matteson)
35. 04:44 PM - Pop rivet gun problem solved (Lynn Matteson)
36. 06:06 PM - Re: flaperon bracket mounting...IV (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
37. 06:37 PM - Re: flaperon bracket mounting...IV (Vic Jacko)
38. 06:47 PM - removing protective covering/film on flaperons (Lynn Matteson)
39. 06:51 PM - Re: Pop rivet gun problem solved (Steve Zakreski)
40. 07:51 PM - removing protective covering/film on flaperons paint thinner (Forfun3@aol.com)
41. 08:28 PM - Module vs coils (Jeffrey Puls)
42. 08:58 PM - Re: Kitfox flight (jdmcbean)
43. 10:28 PM - Re: Gauge error? High oil temps, continued. (kurt schrader)
44. 10:42 PM - Re: Spar reenforcement attachment (kurt schrader)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Banes" <JohnBanes@Adelphia.net>
Hi John,
The speeds are right where you said. Thanks!!!
Hope you and Debra are continuing to enjoy flying your S-6.
As for seeing mine I'll post pictures once the paint or should I say vinyl
scheme is applied. That won't happen until after the 40 hours are flown
off. The graphics company is 100 miles south. Are you planning a trip out
east?
I'm at the point of starting the final installation of the windshield. Then
I can test fit the wings so that I can finish the doors, turtle deck and
strut fairings. At least that is the plan for today.
Thanks again,
John
Do Not Archive
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca>
Don,
I have my rad lowered one inch and a four inch section in the middle blocked off!
My temps are 160-170 at cruise! By the way, the left side is clean (no bugs)
I would guess that the air flow goes down below the rad completely, on that
side! I never checked but I don't think I have a thermostat!
Gil Levesque
C-IGVL
Gary Algate <algate@attglobal.net> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate"
Don
I don't understand why your temps are so hot. There are a couple of Kitfoxes
in my area and all have the 582 and standard rads. In each case lowering the
rad by 1-1/2" to 2" lowers the temps to the point where normal cruise is at
165 - 175 deg. The summer temps we see here are up to 90 degF Max.
Could there be something else that is causing your problems'
Gary
>>>>>>>>>>>> I sat down in front of her prop and starred at the radiator
for over an
hour. I had already lowered the rad once to below the engine outlet air
(about 4 inches). This will fix the problem but, I must say it quickly
approaches
ugly.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Still alive and flyin!!!!
Gil
---------------------------------
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Wings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilohcom@c-magic.com>
More HP without more control surface is not good. Mixing several designs
could be hazardous to your health. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Wings
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>
> Rex:
>
> What I'm looking for is to be able to replace the 582 with a Jabiru 2200,
be able to carry 20 gallons of gas as opposed to 9 gals, being able to
replace the original landing gear with a grove, and still being able to
carry a 170 pounds person. I estimate that combination will take a gross
weight of 1050 pounds as opposed to 950 pounds for the KF II.
>
> I have had the opportunity to compare my KF II wings with the wings of a
KF IV under construction. The most significant difference is that the new
wings have more camber. I suppose that the additional camber is required to
handle heavier loads.
>
> I don't care about the bigger rudder or the differential ailerons on the
KF IV. What I'm considering is to replace the KF II wings with new KF IV
wings, lift struts, jury struts and wingtips. I'm not considering to do any
modification to the fuselage. I supposed it should not be that difficult to
attach the model IV flaperons with the model II linkage.
>
> Do you think this will work? Do you think that the new wings will be able
to carry 100 extra pounds?
>
> If anybody knows a good reason why I should not attempt this combination,
this is an ideal time to speak. I haven't spent a cent on new goodies and
am still alive!!!
>
> Jose
>
> Rex <rex@awarenest.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex
>
> Jose,
> I am rebuilding a Model II wing on which I am upgrading the spars to
> the Model IV spar design. The old Model II spar extrusions are not
> available from skystar which is why you ask I suspect. My repair is not
> the complete model IV wing design, as you asked, but I know that the
> wing struts are not the same length due to a different spar attachment
> location. If one were to use both Model IV wings and struts on a Model
> II it may be possible to fit them without too much trouble, however I
> have not researched this subject that far. The flaperon controls are
> different and that could have an effect on fitment as well.
> Please keep us informed if you learn information off this list.
> Rex
> Colorado, USA
>
>
> Jose M. Toro wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
> >
> >Hi Guys:
> >
> >Has any of you converted a Kitfox II to Kitfox IV wings? Will this
increase gross weight? Do you know what modifications where done to the
earlier fuselages to increase gross weight?
> >
> >Jose
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Jos M. Toro, P.E.
> Computer Systems Validation Engineer
> Eli-Lilly PR05
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 582 rate of climb |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
Any realistic estimates on what a model IV with a 582 rate of climb
would be with full fuel (26 gal) and pilot on a 90 degree day?
I'd like establish a climb and see how high i went in a minute?? Don't
know what to shoot for but I'm not getting the climb i expected so want
some bench marks.
Jared
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Wings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Jose, I think the different wing was mostly for a little speed increase -
not sure, but there are many more structural changes to give the increased
load capacity. I wouldn't do what you are planning. You might check on the
archives - there have been numerous discussions on beefing up threes and
maybe even twos to get the higher weight limits.
In short it is more than the wings, though.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Wings
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>
> Rex:
>
> What I'm looking for is to be able to replace the 582 with a Jabiru 2200,
be able to carry 20 gallons of gas as opposed to 9 gals, being able to
replace the original landing gear with a grove, and still being able to
carry a 170 pounds person. I estimate that combination will take a gross
weight of 1050 pounds as opposed to 950 pounds for the KF II.
>
> I have had the opportunity to compare my KF II wings with the wings of a
KF IV under construction. The most significant difference is that the new
wings have more camber. I suppose that the additional camber is required to
handle heavier loads.
>
> I don't care about the bigger rudder or the differential ailerons on the
KF IV. What I'm considering is to replace the KF II wings with new KF IV
wings, lift struts, jury struts and wingtips. I'm not considering to do any
modification to the fuselage. I supposed it should not be that difficult to
attach the model IV flaperons with the model II linkage.
>
> Do you think this will work? Do you think that the new wings will be able
to carry 100 extra pounds?
>
> If anybody knows a good reason why I should not attempt this combination,
this is an ideal time to speak. I haven't spent a cent on new goodies and
am still alive!!!
>
> Jose
>
> Rex <rex@awarenest.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex
>
> Jose,
> I am rebuilding a Model II wing on which I am upgrading the spars to
> the Model IV spar design. The old Model II spar extrusions are not
> available from skystar which is why you ask I suspect. My repair is not
> the complete model IV wing design, as you asked, but I know that the
> wing struts are not the same length due to a different spar attachment
> location. If one were to use both Model IV wings and struts on a Model
> II it may be possible to fit them without too much trouble, however I
> have not researched this subject that far. The flaperon controls are
> different and that could have an effect on fitment as well.
> Please keep us informed if you learn information off this list.
> Rex
> Colorado, USA
>
>
> Jose M. Toro wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
> >
> >Hi Guys:
> >
> >Has any of you converted a Kitfox II to Kitfox IV wings? Will this
increase gross weight? Do you know what modifications where done to the
earlier fuselages to increase gross weight?
> >
> >Jose
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Jos M. Toro, P.E.
> Computer Systems Validation Engineer
> Eli-Lilly PR05
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Side air outlets |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
Comment from an original KF lister,
With regard to oil cooler & high oil temps. I designed and located the inlet/outlet
for a cooler for a Lanciar with a tightly cowled IO360. The design had
a NACA inlet and a large outlet duct. The cooler was tightly enclosed so no air
could pass around it. Several of us stared at the cowl for a while and placed
the inlet on the lower part but forward on the forward edge of the brow of the
cowl. The results were excellent and the top speed was unchanged. Oil temps
dropped significantly especially in climbout. That same design is also installed
on an RV6 with a Ford V6 for the rad, but has not flown yet.
All this was done by the owners using fiberglass in a couple of days. For details
see "SportPlane Construction Techniques" by Bingelis starting on page 199.
And his book "The Sportplane Builder" starting on page 185.
On second thought maybe a review of all 4 of the Bingelis books would be prudent
before cutting up the cowl or moving the rad or cooler. These books contain
many solutions that have been proven in flying planes.
Regards, Paul
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Side air outlets |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
Comment from an original KF lister,
All the communication about overheating brings to mind the thread many moons ago.
It was about the ultimate solution designed by Acipiter. As I remember it
was a redesign of the lower cowl and movement of the rad for a NSI turbo. Look
in the archives to see if the details are still there.
I am not a NSI person but I remember that the solution was very ingenious. I bet
one could collect some ideas for the 582 as well.
Regards, Paul
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone going to Greenville? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "*" <caseclosed66@hotmail.com>
I have made it to Greenville for the last three years, it really is great.
It's nice to have a get together that is not as busy as Oshkosh or Sun n'
Fun. Lots of great people, with kids and dogs. There has been only a small
showing of KF's there over the years, but lots of great float planes.
Unfortunately I can't make it this year since I will be in Italy (poor me)
but I do still have a reservation for the weekend at Greenville if you or
anyone else needs it. I am planning on canceling it if no one needs it. It
is impossible to get a room anywhere near there during that weekend, but I
would like to help out a fellow KF'er.
I have a Classic IV that I am rebuilding on floats. Last winters project,
but it's going to be a gem when it's done.
greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Anyone going to Greenville?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Is anybody going to Greenville, Maine this next weekend? I'm going, and
> hope to see some Kitfoxes up there. What are my chances? This'll be my
> first trip up there. I'm picking up my buddy at Detroit Airport on
> Thursday evening, coming in from California, and we're driving straight
> through...almost. I sure hope there are some KF's there.
> Lynn
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 582 rate of climb |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Jared, the standard procedure is to do several timed climbs at different
airspeeds to determining best rate and best angle.
Start below your target altitude and establish a steady airspeed and start
the stop watch at a predetermined altitude and time to the next 1000 ft.
Then do the same thing over several times at different airspeeds, using the
same altitudes for start and stop.
On the ground, graph the altitude increase - ft. per second, against
airspeed to get best rate and best angle.
There are so many variations between airplanes that climb speed is not very
well transferable between airplanes - prop pitch, weight, rigging, fairings,
etc.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "jareds" <jareds@verizon.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 rate of climb
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
>
> Any realistic estimates on what a model IV with a 582 rate of climb
> would be with full fuel (26 gal) and pilot on a 90 degree day?
> I'd like establish a climb and see how high i went in a minute?? Don't
> know what to shoot for but I'm not getting the climb i expected so want
> some bench marks.
>
> Jared
>
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Wings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Bob:
Jabiru USA claims that the Jabiru 2200 is compatible with the Kitfox II. They
even offer the engine mount.
I have considered using the larger elevator that is offered as an accessory from
Skystar. However, have not considered any king of modifications to the rudder
or vertical stabilizer.
I suppose it should not be a problem to use KF IV wings on a KF II as long as I
don't attempt to exceed the current gross weight. However, if I'm not able to
lift that additional 100 pounds, then the project would not be feasible (new
wings, gas tanks, engine, and landing gear will all be slightly heavier than
current parts). Since I'm not an aeronautical or structural engineer, my main
concern on this project under analysis is to attempt to lift 100 extra pounds
without modifying the fuselage.
Jose
Bob Unternaehrer <shilohcom@c-magic.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer"
More HP without more control surface is not good. Mixing several designs
could be hazardous to your health. Bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jose M. Toro"
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Wings
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
>
> Rex:
>
> What I'm looking for is to be able to replace the 582 with a Jabiru 2200,
be able to carry 20 gallons of gas as opposed to 9 gals, being able to
replace the original landing gear with a grove, and still being able to
carry a 170 pounds person. I estimate that combination will take a gross
weight of 1050 pounds as opposed to 950 pounds for the KF II.
>
> I have had the opportunity to compare my KF II wings with the wings of a
KF IV under construction. The most significant difference is that the new
wings have more camber. I suppose that the additional camber is required to
handle heavier loads.
>
> I don't care about the bigger rudder or the differential ailerons on the
KF IV. What I'm considering is to replace the KF II wings with new KF IV
wings, lift struts, jury struts and wingtips. I'm not considering to do any
modification to the fuselage. I supposed it should not be that difficult to
attach the model IV flaperons with the model II linkage.
>
> Do you think this will work? Do you think that the new wings will be able
to carry 100 extra pounds?
>
> If anybody knows a good reason why I should not attempt this combination,
this is an ideal time to speak. I haven't spent a cent on new goodies and
am still alive!!!
>
> Jose
>
> Rex wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Rex
>
> Jose,
> I am rebuilding a Model II wing on which I am upgrading the spars to
> the Model IV spar design. The old Model II spar extrusions are not
> available from skystar which is why you ask I suspect. My repair is not
> the complete model IV wing design, as you asked, but I know that the
> wing struts are not the same length due to a different spar attachment
> location. If one were to use both Model IV wings and struts on a Model
> II it may be possible to fit them without too much trouble, however I
> have not researched this subject that far. The flaperon controls are
> different and that could have an effect on fitment as well.
> Please keep us informed if you learn information off this list.
> Rex
> Colorado, USA
>
>
> Jose M. Toro wrote:
>
> >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
> >
> >Hi Guys:
> >
> >Has any of you converted a Kitfox II to Kitfox IV wings? Will this
increase gross weight? Do you know what modifications where done to the
earlier fuselages to increase gross weight?
> >
> >Jose
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Jos M. Toro, P.E.
> Computer Systems Validation Engineer
> Eli-Lilly PR05
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
Jos M. Toro, P.E.
Computer Systems Validation Engineer
Eli-Lilly PR05
---------------------------------
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Wings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Jose,
I don't think you can safely do it. I believe the
fuselage needs to be stronger too, especially where
the wings and struts attach.
Kurt S. S-5
--- "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com> wrote:
...........
> Since I'm not an
> aeronautical or structural engineer, my main concern
> on this project under analysis is to attempt to lift
> 100 extra pounds without modifying the fuselage.
>
> Jose
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Alberta my love |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 9/6/04 4:52:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
canpilot03@yahoo.ca writes:
> I have my rad lowered one inch and a four inch section in the middle
> blocked off! My temps are 160-170 at cruise! By the way, the left side is clean
> (no bugs) I would guess that the air flow goes down below the rad completely,
> on that side! I never checked but I don't think I have a thermostat!
> Gil Levesque
> C-IGVL
>
Gil,
What temps do you go to on a 90 degree day during climb? Your 160-170 is
what I get at cruise.
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 582 rate of climb |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 9/6/04 6:46:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jareds@verizon.net writes:
>
> Any realistic estimates on what a model IV with a 582 rate of climb
> would be with full fuel (26 gal) and pilot on a 90 degree day?
> I'd like establish a climb and see how high i went in a minute?? Don't
> know what to shoot for but I'm not getting the climb i expected so want
> some bench marks.
>
> Jared
>
How about between 700-900?
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Wings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Kurt:
It seems like identifying all the structural modfications that have been done to
the KF II fuselage until it became KF IV would take more that just comparing
the fuselages and taking measures. In addition, I would not be able to do structural
analysis/tests (just a Computer Engineer). Obviously, Skystar won't
provide the information for both liability and business $$$ reasons.
This has been for me an interesting analysis exercise, but it sound like I will
need to "kill" this option, and go for the original plan: Sell the KF II and
build an Airdale's Avid Plus or a Kitfox IV (if I'm able to get a response from
Skystar).
Jose
kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
Jose,
I don't think you can safely do it. I believe the
fuselage needs to be stronger too, especially where
the wings and struts attach.
Kurt S. S-5
--- "Jose M. Toro" wrote:
...........
> Since I'm not an
> aeronautical or structural engineer, my main concern
> on this project under analysis is to attempt to lift
> 100 extra pounds without modifying the fuselage.
>
> Jose
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
Jos M. Toro, P.E.
Computer Systems Validation Engineer
Eli-Lilly PR05
---------------------------------
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 582 rate of climb |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
Thats the answer i was looking for. Unfortunately I'm not getting that
based on prelim tests so maybe need to tweek the prop a bit even though
i'm around 6600 in level full throttle now!
AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 9/6/04 6:46:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>jareds@verizon.net writes:
>
>
>
>
>>Any realistic estimates on what a model IV with a 582 rate of climb
>>would be with full fuel (26 gal) and pilot on a 90 degree day?
>>I'd like establish a climb and see how high i went in a minute?? Don't
>>know what to shoot for but I'm not getting the climb i expected so want
>>some bench marks.
>>
>>Jared
>>
>>
>>
>
>How about between 700-900?
>Don Smythe
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Wings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Yes Jose,
I agree. The stronger wings could lift the weight if
the weight was all in the wings. But you probably
have to strengthen the carry thru tubes where the
wings and struts attach. Then the landing gear and
all the structure that carries the weight from where
you add it to the gear and wings needs to be stronger
too. All that adds weight that you have to account
for again. It gets complex... Then there are the
aeordynamic changes, like the bigger control surfaces
to change the direction of all that weight in motion.
It would be easier to just build/buy the plane that
fits your needs than to have to modify one that much.
Kurt S. S-5
--- "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Kurt:
>
> It seems like identifying all the structural
> modfications that have been done to the KF II
> fuselage until it became KF IV would take more that
> just comparing the fuselages and taking measures.
> In addition, I would not be able to do structural
> analysis/tests (just a Computer Engineer).
> Obviously, Skystar won't provide the information for
> both liability and business $$$ reasons.
>
> This has been for me an interesting analysis
> exercise, but it sound like I will need to "kill"
> this option, and go for the original plan: Sell the
> KF II and build an Airdale's Avid Plus or a Kitfox
> IV (if I'm able to get a response from Skystar).
>
> Jose
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Wings |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Kurt, Thanks for your feedback on this!
Jose
kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
Yes Jose,
I agree. The stronger wings could lift the weight if
the weight was all in the wings. But you probably
have to strengthen the carry thru tubes where the
wings and struts attach. Then the landing gear and
all the structure that carries the weight from where
you add it to the gear and wings needs to be stronger
too. All that adds weight that you have to account
for again. It gets complex... Then there are the
aeordynamic changes, like the bigger control surfaces
to change the direction of all that weight in motion.
It would be easier to just build/buy the plane that
fits your needs than to have to modify one that much.
Kurt S. S-5
--- "Jose M. Toro" wrote:
> Kurt:
>
> It seems like identifying all the structural
> modfications that have been done to the KF II
> fuselage until it became KF IV would take more that
> just comparing the fuselages and taking measures.
> In addition, I would not be able to do structural
> analysis/tests (just a Computer Engineer).
> Obviously, Skystar won't provide the information for
> both liability and business $$$ reasons.
>
> This has been for me an interesting analysis
> exercise, but it sound like I will need to "kill"
> this option, and go for the original plan: Sell the
> KF II and build an Airdale's Avid Plus or a Kitfox
> IV (if I'm able to get a response from Skystar).
>
> Jose
Jos M. Toro, P.E.
Computer Systems Validation Engineer
Eli-Lilly PR05
---------------------------------
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Spar reenforcement attachment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
Yesterday a friend was learning how to extend and pin my wings. I thought I explained
how the attachment slides over the holes for the pin placement. Well
the top attachment got bent down. I bent it back up, and attached and pined the
wing. I don't think this will be a problem, we flew the plane and everything
was great! well except for the strong cross winds!!
Ray
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<style type='text/css'>
p {
margin: 0px;
}
</style>
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
Yesterday a friend was learning how to extend and pin my wings. I thought I explained
how the attachment slides over the holes for the pin placement. Well the
top attachment got bent down. I bent it back up, and attached and pined the
wing. I don't think this will be a problem, we flew the plane and everything was
great! well except for the strong cross winds!!
Ray
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 582 rate of climb |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
jareds wrote:
> Any realistic estimates on what a model IV with a 582 rate of climb
> would be with full fuel (26 gal) and pilot on a 90 degree day?
Yesterday I flew at OAT 20 C (about 70 F) with my son and much fuel, which made
us close to MTOW, and we climbed at about 60 MPH with between 800 and 1,200
fpm. The variation was due to some thermals that were developing that
afternoon. I think it is quite good for that ol' 582. Much power in that little
guy!
Cheers,
Michel
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" <Joel.Mapes@roxio.com>
Fellow Kitfox builders,
Are any of you located in Western Washington? If so, I have a
proposition for you. I'm ready to cover my model 5 and have yet to fly
in a Kitfox. Two trips to Caldwell and I have not been able to hook up
with a pilot and plane at Skystar. How about we arrange for you to fly
to Bremerton, I'll buy you lunch or dinner and pay for your fuel and you
take me up in your Kitfox.
Anyone interested?
Joel Mapes
Software Engineer
OEM / OCA Team
roxio
The Digital Media Company*
10030 Silverdale Way NW, Ste 101
Silverdale, WA 98383 USA
360 613 9988 direct
360 613 4266 fax
joel.mapes@roxio.com
www.roxio.com
NASDAQ:"ROXI"
Featuring the Best-Selling CD-Recording Software in the World
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | News from Jabiru Norway |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Today I called Paul Garstad, who is the Scandinavian importer of the Jabiru and
asked him a few questions.
Darrel, you are right, that Jabiru on eBay is sold by Paul. But it is an older
type, the one that has problem with cooling and Paul doesn't recommend it for a
Kitfox that flies low and slow.
The inlet/outlet ratio is not 1:2 but 1:4 for the Kitfox. Paul can have 1:2 for
his Jabiru plane that flies at 120 knots but not my old model 3 that has 100
MPH as Vne. Also, the ratio of inlet/outlet is depending of the speed of the
aircraft. Faster planes don't need that much outlet size. Mine does!
About the cowling, Paul came with an idea: I buy a Jabiru aircraft front cowl
and mould it to the Kitfox aft cowling. Apparently it would fit. What do you
think, guys? My model 3 will then look like a smooth cowling Kitfox and the
three inlets will fit exactly the Jabiru muffler and oil cooler inlet.
... Hum, I think I'll have to rename my plane ... Jabfox, then! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: News from Jabiru Norway |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Steve Cooper" <spdrflyr@earthlink.net>
I also morphed the Jabiru cowling onto my Avid Mark IV cowl. I went to a lot
of effor to retain the clasic lines of the Mark IV Cowl. I had it painted my
an Autobody shop for $75 after I finished the fiberglass work.
Steve
Avid Mark IV
N919SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Subject: Kitfox-List: News from Jabiru Norway
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> Today I called Paul Garstad, who is the Scandinavian importer of the
Jabiru and
> asked him a few questions.
>
> Darrel, you are right, that Jabiru on eBay is sold by Paul. But it is an
older
> type, the one that has problem with cooling and Paul doesn't recommend it
for a
> Kitfox that flies low and slow.
>
> The inlet/outlet ratio is not 1:2 but 1:4 for the Kitfox. Paul can have
1:2 for
> his Jabiru plane that flies at 120 knots but not my old model 3 that has
100
> MPH as Vne. Also, the ratio of inlet/outlet is depending of the speed of
the
> aircraft. Faster planes don't need that much outlet size. Mine does!
>
> About the cowling, Paul came with an idea: I buy a Jabiru aircraft front
cowl
> and mould it to the Kitfox aft cowling. Apparently it would fit. What do
you
> think, guys? My model 3 will then look like a smooth cowling Kitfox and
the
> three inlets will fit exactly the Jabiru muffler and oil cooler inlet.
> ... Hum, I think I'll have to rename my plane ... Jabfox, then! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Jab-fox WAS: News from Jabiru Norway |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Steve Cooper wrote:
> I also morphed the Jabiru cowling onto my Avid Mark IV cowl. I went to a lot
> of effor to retain the clasic lines of the Mark IV Cowl. I had it painted my
> an Autobody shop for $75 after I finished the fiberglass work.
Thanks, Steve. Glad to hear it has been done before. I am too shy to be a
first-time experimenter :-)
Something I'd like to ask you then, Paul (the Jabiru man) tells me that the
engine mount doesn't have support for the cowling. Mine does on the existing
installation. That is: the engine mount has two tubes extending all the way
forward and that support the fore half-rounded cowl.
How is it with you? Can the cowling be self-supporting from the windscreen all
the way to the front?
Cheers,
Michel
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 582 rate of climb |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 9/6/04 8:27:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jareds@verizon.net writes:
>
> Thats the answer i was looking for. Unfortunately I'm not getting that
> based on prelim tests so maybe need to tweek the prop a bit even though
> i'm around 6600 in level full throttle now!
>
Go for 6800 in level full throttle. IMHO, don't adjust the prop for climb or
cruise. Adjust it for 6800 level full throttle and accept everything else as
is.
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Terra installation and user manuals. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Folks,
Here is a direct link to most installation and user manuals for Terra
avionics.
http://files.experimental.ch/Terra_by_Trimble/250DIM.PDF
Torgeir.
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Terra installation and user manuals. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 20:55:34 +0200, Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
wrote:
The first link contained a pdf file, sorry for this, this new one will
work.
Hi Folks,
Here is a direct link to most installation and user manuals for Terra
avionics.
http://files.experimental.ch/Terra_by_Trimble/
Torgeir.
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: ivo adjustable prop on nsi engine? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Crowder <jimlc@att.net>
At 11:09 PM 9/3/2004, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
>Good prop, but good luck if you need some help. I have been trying for
>months to help a friend get his prop angle indicator working. NSI has poor
>customer service. Sorry to be negative but the truth.
>
>Jimmie
At times they can be very hard to get hold of and other times not so hard,
but I have also found that when you do get a hold of them, and you can if
you are persistent, and if you don't vent anger at them, their service is
very good when the chips are down. This has been true for me regarding
three major items. I continue to be happy that I made the choice to go
with NSI. This is not meant to say that there are not other good choices.
The current difficulty comes from their closing for Oskosh and annual
vacation time. Also, I understand Lance has since undergone serious knee
replacement surgery.
Jim Crowder
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Anyone going to Greenville? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Thanks for the offer, Greg, but my friend and I decided not to go after
all. He's only here for 10 days, and traveling by motorhome would take
up too much time, and we wouldn't need the reservations anyway. I've
decided to spend the time that he's here getting his input on some
building matters, and to possibly go to the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome....
no KF's, but fun just the same.
Lynn
do not archive
On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 10:36 AM, * wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "*" <caseclosed66@hotmail.com>
>
> I have made it to Greenville for the last three years, it really is
> great.
> It's nice to have a get together that is not as busy as Oshkosh or Sun
> n'
> Fun. Lots of great people, with kids and dogs. There has been only a
> small
> showing of KF's there over the years, but lots of great float planes.
> Unfortunately I can't make it this year since I will be in Italy (poor
> me)
> but I do still have a reservation for the weekend at Greenville if you
> or
> anyone else needs it. I am planning on canceling it if no one needs
> it. It
> is impossible to get a room anywhere near there during that weekend,
> but I
> would like to help out a fellow KF'er.
>
> I have a Classic IV that I am rebuilding on floats. Last winters
> project,
> but it's going to be a gem when it's done.
>
> greg
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Anyone going to Greenville?
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> Is anybody going to Greenville, Maine this next weekend? I'm going,
>> and
>> hope to see some Kitfoxes up there. What are my chances? This'll be my
>> first trip up there. I'm picking up my buddy at Detroit Airport on
>> Thursday evening, coming in from California, and we're driving
>> straight
>> through...almost. I sure hope there are some KF's there.
>> Lynn
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Document about changes between Kitfox variants. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Folks,
Two three years back I found this document on the BSA-Suisse site. As I
was searching for this info, I found the Terra manuals.
Well, as the link I sent was direct to one of the files, Kurt Schumacher
replayed with the correction.
To make the story shorter, I asked Kurt about this doc - few minutes later
I got it.
Ok., here is the direct link:
http://files.experimental.ch/typedossier/kitfox_3.pdf
This document cover all the changes from a model II to a model III.
Thank you very much Kurt.
Enjoy.
Torgeir.
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | flaperon bracket mounting...IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
In dealing with the flaperon mounting brackets, the manual says to
drill the four mounting holes (top and bottom), through the brackets
and the capstrips, but to rivet them after covering. A note has been
added to my manual saying "not to drill yet, or after covering, the
holes may not line up" This I can understand, but if I wait until
after covering, all the junk will get inside the wings during drilling.
How have you folks handled this problem?
I've thought of laying on a strip of covering, and a strip of finishing
tape, top and bottom, to mock up the finished thickness, but it would
still lack the 'tak and the 'brush thickness. Am I being too anal here,
or is this not going to be a problem.
Lynn
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Document about changes between Kitfox variants. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kurt A. Schumacher" <Kurt.Schumacher@schumi.ch>
Just a little clarification: This document referenced covers a bunch of required
changes for Switzerland, for Avid and early Kitfox
up to Model 4-1050, but as well the Australian Skyfox. Most of the changes made
it to the Denney / Skystar series models over time.
I would not say this is a complete list of differences!
Another one (http://files.experimental.ch/typedossier/Kitfox_IV_1050_500kg.pdf) covers the upweighting of the 4-1050 lbs to 500 kg -
if the changes from the previous document are included - by setting the markings
on the ASI to max. cruising speed Von == Va == 69.5
Knots.
-Kurt.
EAS Webmaster
Experimental Aviation of Switzerland
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Torgeir Mortensen
Subject: Kitfox-List: Document about changes between Kitfox variants.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen
--> <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Folks,
Two three years back I found this document on the BSA-Suisse site. As I
was searching for this info, I found the Terra manuals.
Well, as the link I sent was direct to one of the files, Kurt Schumacher
replayed with the correction.
To make the story shorter, I asked Kurt about this doc - few minutes later
I got it.
Ok., here is the direct link:
http://files.experimental.ch/typedossier/kitfox_3.pdf
This document cover all the changes from a model II to a model III.
Thank you very much Kurt.
Enjoy.
Torgeir.
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: flaperon bracket mounting...IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Lynn,
I did just what the manual recommended on both of my Kitfoxes and had no
problems. You better drill before covering to make sure that the drill
hole goes all the way through both the rib and the backing plate under
the rib. Otherwise there is a chance that the drill bit will push down
on the backing plate instead of drilling through it. Then the pop
rivet will not position itself through the backing plate when inserted
and squeezed. You will never see that when it is covered.
You should install all of your flaperon brackets on the wing as well as
the flaperons using Cleco fasteners before covering to make sure there
is no binding and they are aligned properly.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Lynn Matteson wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
>In dealing with the flaperon mounting brackets, the manual says to
>drill the four mounting holes (top and bottom), through the brackets
>and the capstrips, but to rivet them after covering. A note has been
>added to my manual saying "not to drill yet, or after covering, the
>holes may not line up" This I can understand, but if I wait until
>after covering, all the junk will get inside the wings during drilling.
>How have you folks handled this problem?
>I've thought of laying on a strip of covering, and a strip of finishing
>tape, top and bottom, to mock up the finished thickness, but it would
>still lack the 'tak and the 'brush thickness. Am I being too anal here,
>or is this not going to be a problem.
>Lynn
>
>
>
>
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | flaperon bracket mounting...IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John King
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flaperon bracket mounting...IV
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Lynn,
I did just what the manual recommended on both of my Kitfoxes and had no
problems. You better drill before covering to make sure that the drill
hole goes all the way through both the rib and the backing plate under
the rib. Otherwise there is a chance that the drill bit will push down
on the backing plate instead of drilling through it. Then the pop
rivet will not position itself through the backing plate when inserted
and squeezed. You will never see that when it is covered.
You should install all of your flaperon brackets on the wing as well as
the flaperons using Cleco fasteners before covering to make sure there
is no binding and they are aligned properly.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Lynn Matteson wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
>In dealing with the flaperon mounting brackets, the manual says to
>drill the four mounting holes (top and bottom), through the brackets
>and the capstrips, but to rivet them after covering. A note has been
>added to my manual saying "not to drill yet, or after covering, the
>holes may not line up" This I can understand, but if I wait until
>after covering, all the junk will get inside the wings during drilling.
>How have you folks handled this problem?
>I've thought of laying on a strip of covering, and a strip of finishing
>tape, top and bottom, to mock up the finished thickness, but it would
>still lack the 'tak and the 'brush thickness. Am I being too anal here,
>or is this not going to be a problem.
>Lynn
>
>
>
>
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: flaperon bracket mounting...IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Thanks, John...I had envisioned the very scenario you just
described...the drill bit pushing the backing strip away. I suppose the
fabric is so thin as to not cause any problems, as you have
experienced. Just for grins, I went out just now and miked the 2.8
Poly-fiber that I have and it read .005"...doubling that will only
raise the bracket about .010" ( covering and finishing tape) which, as
you say, probably won't cause problems when it comes time to attach.
Thanks for setting my mind at ease...I had visions of trying to get a
vacuum cleaner hose inside the wing to remove aluminum and wood
chips...not a pretty sight.
Lynn
p.s. On a related question, my rivet gun seems to have too large a
diameter head to get into that .240" space between the vertical portion
of the bracket and the center of the rivet hole...any ideas? Any
riveters on the market that will get into that space?
On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 05:39 PM, John King wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
>
> Lynn,
>
> I did just what the manual recommended on both of my Kitfoxes and had
> no
> problems. You better drill before covering to make sure that the drill
> hole goes all the way through both the rib and the backing plate under
> the rib. Otherwise there is a chance that the drill bit will push down
> on the backing plate instead of drilling through it. Then the pop
> rivet will not position itself through the backing plate when inserted
> and squeezed. You will never see that when it is covered.
>
> You should install all of your flaperon brackets on the wing as well as
> the flaperons using Cleco fasteners before covering to make sure there
> is no binding and they are aligned properly.
>
> --
> John King
> Warrenton, VA
>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> In dealing with the flaperon mounting brackets, the manual says to
>> drill the four mounting holes (top and bottom), through the brackets
>> and the capstrips, but to rivet them after covering. A note has been
>> added to my manual saying "not to drill yet, or after covering, the
>> holes may not line up" This I can understand, but if I wait until
>> after covering, all the junk will get inside the wings during
>> drilling.
>> How have you folks handled this problem?
>> I've thought of laying on a strip of covering, and a strip of
>> finishing
>> tape, top and bottom, to mock up the finished thickness, but it would
>> still lack the 'tak and the 'brush thickness. Am I being too anal
>> here,
>> or is this not going to be a problem.
>> Lynn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Pop rivet gun problem solved |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I was going to use my Black and Decker pop rivet gun to install rivets
in the flaperon bracket, but it had too large a head on it... .700" in
dia. But my old standby gun has a narrow head...about .420" , so it
will do nicely. Sorry to have asked the question before exhausting the
possibilities.
Lynn
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: flaperon bracket mounting...IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 9/6/04 1:48:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lynnmatt@jps.net
writes:
> and the capstrips, but to rivet them after covering. A note has been
> added to my manual saying "not to drill yet, or after covering, the
> holes may not line up" This I can understand
Lynn,
My Classic IV instruction had me drilling before the covering. As John K
pointed out, the alum backing plates might push away during drilling. Mine
did in a couple places. You might try using a clamp during drilling to keep
that alum strips in place. After covering, I did have a little problem getting
things lined up but nothing to worry about. You can always chase the holes
again with a bit to help the fit and get any glue out of the pre-drilled holes.
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: flaperon bracket mounting...IV |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Lynn, Make a spacer about 3/8 inch long with a hole large enough for the
pop rivet nail to pass through. This should provide the clearance you need.
May take a few try's but it works.
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: flaperon bracket mounting...IV
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Thanks, John...I had envisioned the very scenario you just
> described...the drill bit pushing the backing strip away. I suppose the
> fabric is so thin as to not cause any problems, as you have
> experienced. Just for grins, I went out just now and miked the 2.8
> Poly-fiber that I have and it read .005"...doubling that will only
> raise the bracket about .010" ( covering and finishing tape) which, as
> you say, probably won't cause problems when it comes time to attach.
> Thanks for setting my mind at ease...I had visions of trying to get a
> vacuum cleaner hose inside the wing to remove aluminum and wood
> chips...not a pretty sight.
> Lynn
> p.s. On a related question, my rivet gun seems to have too large a
> diameter head to get into that .240" space between the vertical portion
> of the bracket and the center of the rivet hole...any ideas? Any
> riveters on the market that will get into that space?
>
> On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 05:39 PM, John King wrote:
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
> >
> > Lynn,
> >
> > I did just what the manual recommended on both of my Kitfoxes and had
> > no
> > problems. You better drill before covering to make sure that the drill
> > hole goes all the way through both the rib and the backing plate under
> > the rib. Otherwise there is a chance that the drill bit will push down
> > on the backing plate instead of drilling through it. Then the pop
> > rivet will not position itself through the backing plate when inserted
> > and squeezed. You will never see that when it is covered.
> >
> > You should install all of your flaperon brackets on the wing as well as
> > the flaperons using Cleco fasteners before covering to make sure there
> > is no binding and they are aligned properly.
> >
> > --
> > John King
> > Warrenton, VA
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson wrote:
> >
> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> >>
> >> In dealing with the flaperon mounting brackets, the manual says to
> >> drill the four mounting holes (top and bottom), through the brackets
> >> and the capstrips, but to rivet them after covering. A note has been
> >> added to my manual saying "not to drill yet, or after covering, the
> >> holes may not line up" This I can understand, but if I wait until
> >> after covering, all the junk will get inside the wings during
> >> drilling.
> >> How have you folks handled this problem?
> >> I've thought of laying on a strip of covering, and a strip of
> >> finishing
> >> tape, top and bottom, to mock up the finished thickness, but it would
> >> still lack the 'tak and the 'brush thickness. Am I being too anal
> >> here,
> >> or is this not going to be a problem.
> >> Lynn
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | removing protective covering/film on flaperons |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
My IV is 11 years old (I'm the 4th owner), and the protective covering
on the flaperons is stuck fast, and only comes off in very small
pieces. This is gonna take a LONG time to remove, unless I come up with
a suitable solvent. I'll have to be very careful not to loosen the
structural adhesive or the foam ribs inside. I tried to use a heat
gun...very carefully....but not much luck, as it just puckers the
covering/film.HELP!!
Lynn
Message 39
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Pop rivet gun problem solved |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski <szakreski@shaw.ca>
Lynn
If you do predrill the rivet holes prior to covering, make sure you number
all the brackets indicating their position on the wing.
SteveZ
Calgary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Subject: Kitfox-List: Pop rivet gun problem solved
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I was going to use my Black and Decker pop rivet gun to install rivets
in the flaperon bracket, but it had too large a head on it... .700" in
dia. But my old standby gun has a narrow head...about .420" , so it
will do nicely. Sorry to have asked the question before exhausting the
possibilities.
Lynn
Message 40
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | removing protective covering/film on flaperons paint thinner |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Forfun3@aol.com
hello
paint thinner on an old towel layed on soak over night works great.
Ralph
Message 41
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
My 912UL is acting up. This isn't making sense. When checking my circuits A and
B on run up my circuit A doesn't do anything. When I check circuit B the engine
starts to quit, then runs, starts to quit, and then runs. If I shut circuit
A off, B runs up fine. I have a sneaky suspicion that it is either my coils or
modules. I just put in new plugs and bypassed my ignition key. It's OK. Any
ideas? Jeff Classic IV
Jeffrey Puls
pulsair@mindspring.com
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
Message 42
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Joel,
Give me a shout... Be more then happy to take you up. Not sure when I'll
get up to Washington.. but if you get this way lets go. Heck... come on
down we have a spare room..
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Joel Mapes
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox flight
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Joel Mapes" <Joel.Mapes@roxio.com>
Fellow Kitfox builders,
Are any of you located in Western Washington? If so, I have a
proposition for you. I'm ready to cover my model 5 and have yet to fly
in a Kitfox. Two trips to Caldwell and I have not been able to hook up
with a pilot and plane at Skystar. How about we arrange for you to fly
to Bremerton, I'll buy you lunch or dinner and pay for your fuel and you
take me up in your Kitfox.
Anyone interested?
Joel Mapes
Software Engineer
OEM / OCA Team
roxio
The Digital Media Company*
10030 Silverdale Way NW, Ste 101
Silverdale, WA 98383 USA
360 613 9988 direct
360 613 4266 fax
joel.mapes@roxio.com
www.roxio.com
NASDAQ:"ROXI"
Featuring the Best-Selling CD-Recording Software in the World
Message 43
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Gauge error? High oil temps, continued. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
To Don S. and the list,
Maybe it is time to boil some water? I'll take bets
on the outcome.
Today instead of changing airflows or cutting my cowl,
I tried another test. First the symptoms:
- One gauge reads both GB and engine oil temps thru a
switch.
- When power is applied, this gauge reades 135 degrees
F. I do not live in Death Valley.
- In flight, both the engine and GB oil temps read
high.
- When more cooling airflow was applied on the last
flight, there was no improvement.
- Last year I did a cowl off engine run and used my IR
heat gun aimed at the P/U point to check the gauge and
it was a near match. This is why I assumed the gauge
was accurate, even though it came high off the peg on
powerup.
Well today I mounted the outdoor P/U from a
thermometer on the top of the G/B. The thermometer
reads to 155 degrees, so I could confirm up to that
point. The engine oil temp goes too high for the
thermometer, so I could only check the GB. I figured
the top would read higher than the bottom where the
gauge P/U is mounted. However, the P/U reads oil temp
internally, whereas the thermometer P/U only reads
external case temp.
Here are my readings from a 1/2 hr flight:
Cockpit 185 190 200
Thermometer 138 145 155
The cockpit gauge was consistantly about 45 degrees
high. After shutdown, the thermometer went off scale
high, so I couldn't take any additional readings of
value.
I think I better boil some water tomorrow and check
this gauge and sender for sure.
Don S, you might want to do the same before you carve
up your cowl. Maybe one of us will be lucky and find
out it only cost an oil change and a new gauge instead
of major alterations.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
_______________________________
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
Message 44
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Spar reenforcement attachment |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Ouch!
That is a bad place to bend Ray. How much did it get
bent?
I would worry that something like that would have a
short future after being bent much at all.
If I understand correctly, you are talking about a
part that is in compression in flight. At least that
part is good. But from what you described, I wouldn't
trust it until it was inspected for micro-damage. (my
word) You may need to take off the doublers and
attach longer ones a good bit past where the bend
occured. That is likely to mess with some fabric.
Or....
Anyone know if that cuff attachment reinforcement is
still available? BlueSky of somebody? That would be
a great, strong fix.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- KITFOXPILOT@att.net wrote:
> Yesterday a friend was learning how to extend and
> pin my wings. I thought I explained how the
> attachment slides over the holes for the pin
> placement. Well the top attachment got bent down.
> I bent it back up, and attached and pined the wing.
> I don't think this will be a problem, we flew the
> plane and everything was great! well except for the
> strong cross winds!!
>
> Ray
__________________________________
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|