---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/14/04: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:35 AM - EC YOY Spain (Michel Gordillo) 2. 03:20 AM - Re: Side air outlets: N210F update :-) (Fox5flyer) 3. 03:45 AM - SV: EC YOY Spain (Michel Verheughe) 4. 05:45 AM - Re: Re: door gas pistons (W Duke) 5. 06:06 AM - Cad file for Panel? (Clifford Begnaud) 6. 07:56 AM - Re: Cad file for Panel? () 7. 08:42 AM - Re: EC YOY Spain (Don Pearsall) 8. 08:51 AM - Re: Door gas springs (Ron) 9. 09:19 AM - Re: Cad file for Panel? (RICHARD HUTSON) 10. 09:57 AM - Re: Cad file for Panel? (Clifford Begnaud) 11. 09:59 AM - Re: Out of retirement (off topic) (kurt schrader) 12. 10:20 AM - Kitfox radio choices (Mark Scott) 13. 10:23 AM - Re: Cad file for Panel? (Grant Fluent) 14. 11:43 AM - Back from NY and back on the list (OFF TOPIC) (Scott McClintock) 15. 12:01 PM - October KitPlanes Magazine (Scott McClintock) 16. 12:11 PM - Re: October KitPlanes Magazine (Cory Emberson) 17. 02:40 PM - Re: Out of retirement (off topic) (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 18. 04:46 PM - Have any Listers bought the door "gas springs", the devices that hold our (Rex & Jan Shaw) 19. 05:46 PM - Re: Kitfox radio choices (Steve Zakreski) 20. 06:08 PM - Re: Bottom False Ribs (Jerry Liles) 21. 06:24 PM - Gap sealing tape (again) (Jay Fabian) 22. 06:24 PM - Re: Re: door gas pistons (Glenn Horne) 23. 06:35 PM - Kitfox crash () 24. 07:01 PM - Re: My 912UL oil change proceedure (Allan Arthur) 25. 07:14 PM - Re: Kitfox crash (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 26. 08:00 PM - Re: Kitfox radio choices (Randy Daughenbaugh) 27. 08:00 PM - Re: Doors Opening on S-6 (John Banes) 28. 08:09 PM - Re: Cad file for Panel? (John Banes) 29. 08:10 PM - Re: Gap sealing tape (again) (Rick) 30. 08:28 PM - Re: Kitfox radio choices (Steve Zakreski) 31. 08:37 PM - Re: Back from NY and back on the list (OFF TOPIC) (jdmcbean) 32. 09:38 PM - Re: Kitfox crash (Don Pearsall) 33. 10:13 PM - Re: Gap sealing tape (again) (Clem Nichols) 34. 11:00 PM - Re: Gap sealing tape (again) (Don Pearsall) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:42 AM PST US From: "Michel Gordillo" Subject: Kitfox-List: EC YOY Spain --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel Gordillo" Hi everybody. Long time is gone, but finally, last sunday, Kitfox EC YOY flew again with his new fuselage and old feathers. New colours also. I did enjoy a lot the flight and now the plane is back into his 800 ft dirt runway. The reason of changing the fuselage is related with trying a voluntary landing where it was not advisable, and then going around. The downdrafts produced by the hill slope upwind were powerfull enough to avoid a positive rate of climb, and then, having the fuselage flying on top of a ground step, and the aluminium lang gear staying underneath that same step, with the fuselage being bent at the landing gear attach point. I decided to buy a new fuselage. EC YOY flew from Spain into Oshkosh easterly, via China and Russia, in 1998 (www.sportflight.com, the wonderfull web page created by my friend Don Pearsall) Best regards Michel ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:20:25 AM PST US From: "Fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Side air outlets: N210F update :-) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" Looks great Kurt. Paint it up and it'll look like it was an original part of the plane. Deke > I understand the "lots of work" phase. Thanks to > Michel V, pics of my scoop are on SportFlight. That > thing works, but isn't pretty yet. Lots of work still > to go there. > > I have to reduce the side outlet pics to post them, > but they are pretty standard. Much like Howard's, but > a little smaller, a little lower and a little more > aft. > > > --- AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: > > > Where are you Don S? Did you test your side vents > > yet? > > > > Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo > > > > No, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last > > night. > > > > My new fabricated vents are laying on top of the > > wing. I've cut and re-fiberglassed the cowl. > > Have a new radiator cowl about 70% laid out. Still > > have lots of work to do before installing the side > > vents and getting back in the air. > > > > Don Smythe > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > _______________________________ > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:45:48 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: EC YOY Spain --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Good to hear you are Kitfoxing again, MichelG! > From: Michel Gordillo [michelgordillo@telefonica.net] > The downdrafts produced by the hill slope upwind were powerfull enough Incidentally I just got a message from Mike Gibbs who is still in the hospital awaiting an operation on both legs. He tells me that his accident was probably also caused by a powerful sharewind/downdraft that pulled him to the ground while he was quite low. Otherwise Mike seems to take his mishap with good fortune and talks already about "getting back on the saddle." Good for him! Cheers, MichelV do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:19 AM PST US From: W Duke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: door gas pistons --> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke I bought some from Orr and Orr several years ago. I needed a different length than supplied with kit because of bubble doors. Maxwell Ron wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron" Have any Listers bought the door "gas springs", the devices that hold our doors open? If so, what did you pay for them? Where did you buy them? Thanks, Ron --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:32 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Kitfox-List: Cad file for Panel? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Does anyone have an accurate cad file of the model 5/6/7 instrument panel that you would be willing to share? I'm planning to build a new panel and don't have any kind of template. Thanks, Cliff ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:32 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cad file for Panel? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: > > From: "Clifford Begnaud" > Date: 2004/09/14 Tue AM 08:06:18 CDT > To: > Subject: Kitfox-List: Cad file for Panel? > > I have a CAD file I can send you. Basically, I had a new panel laser-cut for me out of .090 aluminum. It's for a series 6. The panel came out great. The file is an auto-cad file (.dxf). This file I sent directly to a machine shop and they cut the panel for me. You'll need to flush rivet a piece of aluminum angle on the bottom (where the original piece from SkyStar is bent at a 90 degree angle). Mine is a little heavier than the original, but I have a full panel and needed the heavier guage aluminum. You are welcome to use my design if you wish. It has all the standard instument holes in there already. Also has holes for some toggle switches, etc. Since you probably won't use my instrument placement, etc., you can cut & paste the instrument holes, switch holes, etc., in auto-cad to build you're own custom panel. The hardest part is learning to use auto-cad. :-) Ron ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:22 AM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: EC YOY Spain --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Congratulations Michel. You have done it again! It is good to see that history-making plane flying again. For those who do not know, Michel not only built his Model IV and flew it from Madrid to Oshkosh, but he also built a MCR-01 (Banbi) and flew that plane around the WORLD. His exploits were the subject of many news and documentary TV shows. Now is building an RV-8, and who know WHAT he will do with it. Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Gordillo Subject: Kitfox-List: EC YOY Spain --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel Gordillo" Hi everybody. Long time is gone, but finally, last sunday, Kitfox EC YOY flew again with his new fuselage and old feathers. New colours also. I did enjoy a lot the flight and now the plane is back into his 800 ft dirt runway. The reason of changing the fuselage is related with trying a voluntary landing where it was not advisable, and then going around. The downdrafts produced by the hill slope upwind were powerfull enough to avoid a positive rate of climb, and then, having the fuselage flying on top of a ground step, and the aluminium lang gear staying underneath that same step, with the fuselage being bent at the landing gear attach point. I decided to buy a new fuselage. EC YOY flew from Spain into Oshkosh easterly, via China and Russia, in 1998 (www.sportflight.com, the wonderfull web page created by my friend Don Pearsall) Best regards Michel ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:01 AM PST US From: "Ron" Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Door gas springs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron" Listers, you guys & gals are great. I sure appreciate the responces I got so fast regarding my need for new gas springs for my doors. After I posted to you folks I pulled one of my original ones that I bought from SkyStar a while back and went to the internet with the company name that was on it. I pulled up the site for H.A.Guden at www.guden.com and there were my original ones. I have part # GGS43-060-K which is a 60 pound type with the plastic ends. I ordered 2 of them at a price of $9.27 each plus shipping. Once again I thank all of you for responding so fast to my need. Ron Chicago area ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:57 AM PST US From: "RICHARD HUTSON" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cad file for Panel? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RICHARD HUTSON" GO TO http://epanelbuilder.com/ there is a panel under skystar Subject: Kitfox-List: Cad file for Panel? > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > > > Does anyone have an accurate cad file of the model 5/6/7 instrument panel > that you would be willing to share? > I'm planning to build a new panel and don't have any kind of template. > Thanks, > Cliff > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:15 AM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cad file for Panel? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Richard, I have used that site to do a layout, but you can't save it as a cad file. It only lets you save it as a gif or bitmap. Am I missing something? Cliff do not archive > GO TO http://epanelbuilder.com/ there is a panel under skystar > Subject: Kitfox-List: Cad file for Panel? > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" > > > > > > Does anyone have an accurate cad file of the model 5/6/7 instrument panel > > that you would be willing to share? > > I'm planning to build a new panel and don't have any kind of template. > > Thanks, > > Cliff > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:43 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Out of retirement (off topic) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader Don, Were you ever actually retired, or just off on vacation between jobs? :-) Watch out for those helos. Helos can bite back. They need excess reliable power, not marginal power and die off quickly with density altitude. They can be a lot of fun, but you have to keep an eye on them at all times. I have a good bit of helo time and some of it was scary. Kurt S. --- AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: > Just thought I would pass on a bit of news. As > of next Monday, I will come out of retirement and > become an employee of the below website, building > Ultrasport Helicopters. It is a Taiwanese company > that has had a hard time getting their birds to fly. > They have tried all sorts of engines from the Rotax > 582/912, Hirth, etc. They will use a 4 cylinder 2 > stroke fuel injected Hirth on the next one that > I will most likely be building. Still ain't too sure > about the Hirth. Seems they are having a hard time > getting the power to weight ratio they need. > Anyway, their hanger is about 3 doors down from > mine at PHF and they like the way I built the Fox. > They found out I was retired through the Rich Man > and he insisted I was their man. BTW, I think I > will be the only employee for the time being. > The other two quit???? Also comes > with dual Helicopter training. > > http://www.ultrasport.rotor.com/ > > (Time will tell, I may post next week that I quit) > Don Smythe > DO NOT ARCHIVE __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:23 AM PST US From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox radio choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark Scott" Hello all, I would like to get some feedback from the group regarding radio/avionics choices for a model IV Kitfox. I am a student pilot (just soloed this past weekend) and intend to start working on my kitfox very soon (bought someone else's project last year). I have the basic flight instruments already, but no radios. This is the area where I have the least knowledge as far as what names/units are good, which types I should stay away from, what kind of prices to expect, etc. I will probably be looking for deals on the used market where possible just to be cost conscious. I will need a transponder for some of the areas I will be flying in, and was also thinking of having a VOR, Nav, and com radio. I have also been thinking of having a handheld GPS and COM for backup and convenience. Should I look for a handheld that is a combination GPS and COM? What types are out there? Do I really have the space in a model IV for the things I mentioned above? What special needs for the kitfox do I need to consider when perusing Trade-a-plane? I have seen some ads for the Trimble Terra units which look nice and compact. Are these decent units? What's are reasonable prices to pay for Terra units in good working condition? Sorry for all the questions. Please lend me your experience and guide me in the right direction. Mark Scott Elkton, MD ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:43 AM PST US From: Grant Fluent Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cad file for Panel? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Grant Fluent Cliff, I have an Autocad file of a Series 5 panel that someone sent to me. I used that for some of the patterns for my Classic IV panel. If you're interested, I'll send you the file off list. Grant Fluent Newcastle, NE Classic IV 912S do not archive --- Clifford Begnaud wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford > Begnaud" > > Does anyone have an accurate cad file of the model > 5/6/7 instrument panel > that you would be willing to share? > I'm planning to build a new panel and don't have any > kind of template. > Thanks, > Cliff > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:47 AM PST US From: Scott McClintock Subject: Kitfox-List: Back from NY and back on the list (OFF TOPIC) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock Hello to All, I'm back from NY and my son has officially "jumped the broomstick". The wedding was very nice and I was very impressed with upstate NY. The weather was great and I got to spend an entire day riding a Harley with my daughter. It was so nice in fact; that my son has decided to move there instead of coming back to Nome. (I lose more good help that way) Go figure? It was 31F this morning. Summer has officially gone from Alaska. I will be off to Austin, Texas the end of October to sit for the Land Surveyor exam and would love to visit (fly??) with one of you locals. Any takers can contact me off list. Scott in Nome DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:52 PM PST US From: Scott McClintock Subject: Kitfox-List: October KitPlanes Magazine --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock Well, as I warned you the October issue of KitPlanes Magazine has my tale about financing the "Arctic Fox". I was surprised that it is the better part of a whole page. (I didn't think I was that interesting?) No room for the nice picture of me and the "Arctic Fox" though. That probably would have been too much even for my ego to take, gracefully. George, I did mention your name to Cory as the wonderful guy who financed this for me but she didn't want to print your name without permission (I guess) Feel free to offer any puns, jeers or "flames" as you will. Scott in Nome ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:09 PM PST US From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: October KitPlanes Magazine --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" Hi Scott, Thanks for your nice email as well (I will write back, too)! So nice to hear that you're back and that your issue arrived quickly. I had hoped that there would be room for pictures, but it was not to be... Your story is a wonderful one, and it's always nice to have a testament to the brotherhood (and sisterhood ) of pilots. Thanks for everything! best, Cory --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock Well, as I warned you the October issue of KitPlanes Magazine has my tale about financing the "Arctic Fox". I was surprised that it is the better part of a whole page. (I didn't think I was that interesting?) No room for the nice picture of me and the "Arctic Fox" though. That probably would have been too much even for my ego to take, gracefully. George, I did mention your name to Cory as the wonderful guy who financed this for me but she didn't want to print your name without permission (I guess) Feel free to offer any puns, jeers or "flames" as you will. Scott in Nome ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:32 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Out of retirement (off topic) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com Don, Were you ever actually retired, or just off on vacation between jobs? :-) Watch out for those helos. Helos can bite back. They need excess reliable power, not marginal power and die off quickly with density altitude. They can be a lot of fun, but you have to keep an eye on them at all times. I have a good bit of helo time and some of it was scary. Kurt S. Kurt, They are using "HIRTH" engines (so much for excess power and reliability). I will work on them but keep my feet on the ground. I found three problems on the demo today one of which is an accident looking for a place to happen. So far it's great, I work for them 3 hours a day and then shift hangers to work on mine. Cowl is coming along pretty good. Yes, I fully retired from Federal Civil Service last December at 57. Was getting tired of everyday being a Saturday. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:07 PM PST US From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Subject: Kitfox-List: Have any Listers bought the door "gas springs", the devices that hold our --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" Have any Listers bought the door "gas springs", the devices that hold our doors open? If so, what did you pay for them? Where did you buy them? I haven't bought these but get the impression they aren't very expensive. Here in Australia they only cost $22AU each to regass so if that's your problem maybe regass rather than renew. www.strutregassa.com.au Rex. rexjan@bigpond.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:08 PM PST US From: Steve Zakreski Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox radio choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Mark I'll take a shot at this one. I'm not sure why you need a COM backup unless you intend to fly IFR (not likely in a Kitfox). COMs don't fail much any more...and if it does fail...just go land someplace. I consider a handheld GPS that shows airspace a good idea...a few great ones available now at around $500 and up from Garmin and Lawrence. I would forget about the VOR (forget what your instructor says). On the cheap, I would go with a panel mounted COM (icom or king) , Transponder (an unavoidable big cost item unless your lucky with a used unit), and possibly a cheap used panel mount GPS, and as a backup, a current generation $500 GPS which shows airspaces (something like a GARMIN GPSMAP-96 or LOWRANCE AirMap 500) . If you live where there are lots of TFR's, consider the Control Vision Anywhere Map GPS/ipaq, which allows you to upload current TFR's prior to each flight. If you want to see how it all fits, take a look... http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Instument_Panel_with_iPaq.jpg One more thing...wait as long as possible before buying your avionics...that perfect GPS/COMM/whatever always hits the market a week after you buy yours. Steve Zakreski Calgary -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Scott Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox radio choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark Scott" Hello all, I would like to get some feedback from the group regarding radio/avionics choices for a model IV Kitfox. I am a student pilot (just soloed this past weekend) and intend to start working on my kitfox very soon (bought someone else's project last year). I have the basic flight instruments already, but no radios. This is the area where I have the least knowledge as far as what names/units are good, which types I should stay away from, what kind of prices to expect, etc. I will probably be looking for deals on the used market where possible just to be cost conscious. I will need a transponder for some of the areas I will be flying in, and was also thinking of having a VOR, Nav, and com radio. I have also been thinking of having a handheld GPS and COM for backup and convenience. Should I look for a handheld that is a combination GPS and COM? What types are out there? Do I really have the space in a model IV for the things I mentioned above? What special needs for the kitfox do I need to consider when perusing Trade-a-plane? I have seen some ads for the Trimble Terra units which look nice and compact. Are these decent units? What's are reasonable prices to pay for Terra units in good working condition? Sorry for all the questions. Please lend me your experience and guide me in the right direction. Mark Scott Elkton, MD ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:22 PM PST US From: Jerry Liles Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bottom False Ribs --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles The Kitfox II wing is an undercamber design. You could make false ribs but they should follow the lines of the true ribs and you would have to put in a small spar (sparlet) to support the ends. I doubt they would be of much use other than add complexity and weight. The undercamber airfoil is a very good STOL foil, it can be made faster with horsepower, but for speed you would really need a different foil and that would really be out of character for the Model II, which is a fun, take off from a pasture in 100 feet, low and slow, fly with the doors open kind of plane. Frankly that, in my book, beats speed all hollow for just pure fun. Jerry Liles Jerry Liles Jose M. Toro wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" > >Hi All: > >Is it possible to adapt bottom false ribs to KF II wings? Would this make the wing faster? What increase in weight should I expect? > > >Jos M. Toro, P.E. >Kitfox II/582 >"A slow flight in the Caribbean..." > > > >--------------------------------- > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:44 PM PST US From: "Jay Fabian" Subject: Kitfox-List: Gap sealing tape (again) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" Hi All, I know that there was a roll of tape circulating around the list for a while. But is there a web site of some sort with at least a comparable tape to order that any one has tested out. I have been using regular clear box sealing tape. But it falls apart after about 10 hours of flight time. It is not too thick, and the glue is starting to make a mess out of the paint. I tried the ski saver stuff from a ski shop, but it is discontinued as for as they know, plus it had patterns all over it when it was available. thanks Jay Fabian ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:44 PM PST US From: "Glenn Horne" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: door gas pistons --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Glenn Horne" Advance Auto has them. If you need a number let me know. They had to order mine. Glenn- Model II -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: door gas pistons --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron" Have any Listers bought the door "gas springs", the devices that hold our doors open? If so, what did you pay for them? Where did you buy them? Thanks, Ron ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:47 PM PST US From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox crash --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel says, Does anyone know anything more? Don's right, it was me and a friend from work. Although the newspaper clipping got a little bit of it right, they didn't do such a good job on the details. After breakfast and re-fueling at Payson, AZ, we took off to return to Phoenix (typically about a 30 to 40 minute flight). The NTSB and FAA are both still investigating and I am suffering from some memory loss as a result of the impact, so I can't say too much, but I can tell you that I am not aware of any pre-accident failure of the engine, propeller, airframe, or flight controls. There was no attempt at a landing because we were attempting to keep flying! Impact was in an area of very rough terrain that really slowed down rescue attempts. My advice is that if you decide to crash your airplane, do so where rescuers will be able to reach you easily. Injuries were more severe than originally reported. Both of us suffered facial injuries after smashing our heads into the panel. Both of my legs are broken below the knee and my passenger fractured a vertebra along with his pelvis. When we arrived at the hospital I stopped breathing and had to be intubated on the heli-pad. Total time from crash to arrival at the hospital was nearly five hours (odds of a successful recovery increase dramatically if this can be kept to an hour or less). The week after the crash one of my doctors told me that he had not expected my passenger or I to have survived. My passenger was able to return to work this week, but I remain in the hospital unable to walk. I have had 4 surgeries so far and they expect one more will be required to complete repairs on my leg bones. Thanks for the kind thoughts and wishes from the list. I look forward to getting back into the saddle. It won't be in this Kitfox, however, because the airplane was completely destroyed in the accident (lots of tears). I'd like to think that the airplane sacrificed itself doing just what it was supposed to do--it protected us from the worst of the fierce impact. The airframe had about 70 hours on it at the time of the accident. Mike G. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My 912UL oil change proceedure From: "Allan Arthur" --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Allan Arthur" Hi Lowell, I guess ccw wasn't very clear. I mean ccw as I face the prop whilst turning it by hand in the normal direction of prop rotation. Thanks, Allan ---------- >From: "Lowell Fitt" >To: >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My 912UL oil change proceedure >Date: Mon, Sep 13, 2004, 6:27 PM > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" > > Just one thought Allan. When you ay turn the prop counter clockwise to > purge the oil lines do you mean counter to the normal rotation of the prop. > If that is what you meant, Rotax STRONGLY recommends never turn the prop > backwards more than one blade. There apparently have been instances where > air has been sucked into the lines and it can be hard to purge using the. > Granted, this advice might refer only to normal operational times, but at > the OSH forum it was mentioned during the oil change discussion. > > I have always just let the thing drain without the oil filter for a while, > They discouraged that also. > > Lowell ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:43 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox crash --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 9/14/04 6:36:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, michaelgibbs@cox.net writes: > Don's right, it was me and a friend from work. Although the newspaper > clipping got a little bit of it right, they didn't do such a good job on the > > details. > Mike, Glad to hear that both of you made it OK (if OK is the right word). Don't like to hear reports worse than yours. Take care of yourself and do some healing. Don Smythe DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:15 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox radio choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Mark, I agree with Steve, wait until you have to buy 'em. You might consider the garmin Apollo SL-40. Good radio and great intercom built in. Randy . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Zakreski Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox radio choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Mark I'll take a shot at this one. I'm not sure why you need a COM backup unless you intend to fly IFR (not likely in a Kitfox). COMs don't fail much any more...and if it does fail...just go land someplace. I consider a handheld GPS that shows airspace a good idea...a few great ones available now at around $500 and up from Garmin and Lawrence. I would forget about the VOR (forget what your instructor says). On the cheap, I would go with a panel mounted COM (icom or king) , Transponder (an unavoidable big cost item unless your lucky with a used unit), and possibly a cheap used panel mount GPS, and as a backup, a current generation $500 GPS which shows airspaces (something like a GARMIN GPSMAP-96 or LOWRANCE AirMap 500) . If you live where there are lots of TFR's, consider the Control Vision Anywhere Map GPS/ipaq, which allows you to upload current TFR's prior to each flight. If you want to see how it all fits, take a look... http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Instument_Panel_with_iPaq.jpg One more thing...wait as long as possible before buying your avionics...that perfect GPS/COMM/whatever always hits the market a week after you buy yours. Steve Zakreski Calgary -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Scott Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox radio choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark Scott" Hello all, I would like to get some feedback from the group regarding radio/avionics choices for a model IV Kitfox. I am a student pilot (just soloed this past weekend) and intend to start working on my kitfox very soon (bought someone else's project last year). I have the basic flight instruments already, but no radios. This is the area where I have the least knowledge as far as what names/units are good, which types I should stay away from, what kind of prices to expect, etc. I will probably be looking for deals on the used market where possible just to be cost conscious. I will need a transponder for some of the areas I will be flying in, and was also thinking of having a VOR, Nav, and com radio. I have also been thinking of having a handheld GPS and COM for backup and convenience. Should I look for a handheld that is a combination GPS and COM? What types are out there? Do I really have the space in a model IV for the things I mentioned above? What special needs for the kitfox do I need to consider when perusing Trade-a-plane? I have seen some ads for the Trimble Terra units which look nice and compact. Are these decent units? What's are reasonable prices to pay for Terra units in good working condition? Sorry for all the questions. Please lend me your experience and guide me in the right direction. Mark Scott Elkton, MD ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:21 PM PST US From: "John Banes" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Doors Opening on S-6 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Banes" Hi David, Thank you!!! John Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of david yeamans Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Doors Opening on S-6 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "david yeamans" Hello John, When I installed my gas struts, I wanted the door to open as high as possible to give more room getting into the cockpit, but not touch the wing. I allowed 1/4 " clerence between the door and the wing. It flys great with the door's open. It dosen't need the wing to stabolize it, and best not to have that contact. the Kitfox was designed to fly with the doors open, and it does fly great that way. The doors hardly move when you are flying with them open. Its one of the best thrills in a Kitfox!!!!! Do It !!! David ----- Original Message ----- From: John Banes To: Kitfox list - Matronics Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 8:01 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Doors Opening on S-6 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Banes" I'm ready to install the gas struts on the doors. Neither door touches the flush type drains on the wings when the door is fully open. Since I only get one shot at the final adjustment I would greatly appreciate input on the following. How much clearance should there be between the bottom of the wing and the door when it is open? Is it better to have it open so that it contacts the wing to help steady the door when it is open for flight? If not then how much clearance is enough to allow flexing of the door in flight without contacting the wing? Thanks in advance, John Banes S-6 912S ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:13 PM PST US From: "John Banes" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Cad file for Panel? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Banes" Hi Cliff, I have cad files for the S6 fiberglass panel with aluminum inserts. The files are in Autocad AutoSketch format. The drawings are for the inserts only. I can convert them to ".dwg" files if needed. Just let me know. John Banes S6 912S -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clifford Begnaud Subject: Kitfox-List: Cad file for Panel? --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Does anyone have an accurate cad file of the model 5/6/7 instrument panel that you would be willing to share? I'm planning to build a new panel and don't have any kind of template. Thanks, Cliff ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:57 PM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Gap sealing tape (again) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" It is called SkiSaver tape. I will look for their number. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jay Fabian Subject: Kitfox-List: Gap sealing tape (again) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" Hi All, I know that there was a roll of tape circulating around the list for a while. But is there a web site of some sort with at least a comparable tape to order that any one has tested out. I have been using regular clear box sealing tape. But it falls apart after about 10 hours of flight time. It is not too thick, and the glue is starting to make a mess out of the paint. I tried the ski saver stuff from a ski shop, but it is discontinued as for as they know, plus it had patterns all over it when it was available. thanks Jay Fabian ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:33 PM PST US From: Steve Zakreski Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox radio choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Mark Actually, I have both the Apollo COMM and transponder. I agree, great units!...and very thin in the radio stack. The Apollo (which became UPS...now Garmin) radio has two great features...first, as Randy says, you won't need an intercom, and second, you can monitor two frequencies at the same time...ie; listen to ATIS while monitoring the mandatory frequency. SteveZ -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Randy Daughenbaugh Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox radio choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Mark, I agree with Steve, wait until you have to buy 'em. You might consider the garmin Apollo SL-40. Good radio and great intercom built in. Randy . -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Zakreski Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox radio choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Steve Zakreski Mark I'll take a shot at this one. I'm not sure why you need a COM backup unless you intend to fly IFR (not likely in a Kitfox). COMs don't fail much any more...and if it does fail...just go land someplace. I consider a handheld GPS that shows airspace a good idea...a few great ones available now at around $500 and up from Garmin and Lawrence. I would forget about the VOR (forget what your instructor says). On the cheap, I would go with a panel mounted COM (icom or king) , Transponder (an unavoidable big cost item unless your lucky with a used unit), and possibly a cheap used panel mount GPS, and as a backup, a current generation $500 GPS which shows airspaces (something like a GARMIN GPSMAP-96 or LOWRANCE AirMap 500) . If you live where there are lots of TFR's, consider the Control Vision Anywhere Map GPS/ipaq, which allows you to upload current TFR's prior to each flight. If you want to see how it all fits, take a look... http://www.sportflight.com/uploads/Instument_Panel_with_iPaq.jpg One more thing...wait as long as possible before buying your avionics...that perfect GPS/COMM/whatever always hits the market a week after you buy yours. Steve Zakreski Calgary -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Scott Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox radio choices --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mark Scott" Hello all, I would like to get some feedback from the group regarding radio/avionics choices for a model IV Kitfox. I am a student pilot (just soloed this past weekend) and intend to start working on my kitfox very soon (bought someone else's project last year). I have the basic flight instruments already, but no radios. This is the area where I have the least knowledge as far as what names/units are good, which types I should stay away from, what kind of prices to expect, etc. I will probably be looking for deals on the used market where possible just to be cost conscious. I will need a transponder for some of the areas I will be flying in, and was also thinking of having a VOR, Nav, and com radio. I have also been thinking of having a handheld GPS and COM for backup and convenience. Should I look for a handheld that is a combination GPS and COM? What types are out there? Do I really have the space in a model IV for the things I mentioned above? What special needs for the kitfox do I need to consider when perusing Trade-a-plane? I have seen some ads for the Trimble Terra units which look nice and compact. Are these decent units? What's are reasonable prices to pay for Terra units in good working condition? Sorry for all the questions. Please lend me your experience and guide me in the right direction. Mark Scott Elkton, MD ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:11 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Back from NY and back on the list (OFF TOPIC) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Scott, You get by Idaho.. give me a shout... Blue Skies John & Debra McBean "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott McClintock Subject: Kitfox-List: Back from NY and back on the list (OFF TOPIC) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock Hello to All, I'm back from NY and my son has officially "jumped the broomstick". The wedding was very nice and I was very impressed with upstate NY. The weather was great and I got to spend an entire day riding a Harley with my daughter. It was so nice in fact; that my son has decided to move there instead of coming back to Nome. (I lose more good help that way) Go figure? It was 31F this morning. Summer has officially gone from Alaska. I will be off to Austin, Texas the end of October to sit for the Land Surveyor exam and would love to visit (fly??) with one of you locals. Any takers can contact me off list. Scott in Nome DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:59 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox crash --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Michael, I sure hope you have a speedy and full recovery, but it sounds like you have been through a lot of pain already. Thank you for sharing your crash story with us. Do you have any idea of what caused the crash landing? Your advice about making a forced landing where rescue will be easiest is good. I will remember that. I hope you can go home soon. Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of michaelgibbs@cox.net Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox crash --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel says, Does anyone know anything more? Don's right, it was me and a friend from work. Although the newspaper clipping got a little bit of it right, they didn't do such a good job on the details. After breakfast and re-fueling at Payson, AZ, we took off to return to Phoenix (typically about a 30 to 40 minute flight). The NTSB and FAA are both still investigating and I am suffering from some memory loss as a result of the impact, so I can't say too much, but I can tell you that I am not aware of any pre-accident failure of the engine, propeller, airframe, or flight controls. There was no attempt at a landing because we were attempting to keep flying! Impact was in an area of very rough terrain that really slowed down rescue attempts. My advice is that if you decide to crash your airplane, do so where rescuers will be able to reach you easily. Injuries were more severe than originally reported. Both of us suffered facial injuries after smashing our heads into the panel. Both of my legs are broken below the knee and my passenger fractured a vertebra along with his pelvis. When we arrived at the hospital I stopped breathing and had to be intubated on the heli-pad. Total time from crash to arrival at the hospital was nearly five hours (odds of a successful recovery increase dramatically if this can be kept to an hour or less). The week after the crash one of my doctors told me that he had not expected my passenger or I to have survived. My passenger was able to return to work this week, but I remain in the hospital unable to walk. I have had 4 surgeries so far and they expect one more will be required to complete repairs on my leg bones. Thanks for the kind thoughts and wishes from the list. I look forward to getting back into the saddle. It won't be in this Kitfox, however, because the airplane was completely destroyed in the accident (lots of tears). I'd like to think that the airplane sacrificed itself doing just what it was supposed to do--it protected us from the worst of the fierce impact. The airframe had about 70 hours on it at the time of the accident. Mike G. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:02 PM PST US From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gap sealing tape (again) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" I found Skuff Saver Tape on 3/30/04 at Tognar Toolworks, 691 Washington St., Ashland Oregon, 97520. Telephone (541) 488-9103. The price at that time was $2.95 per foot. The company did not have a web-site. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Fabian" Subject: Kitfox-List: Gap sealing tape (again) > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" > > > Hi All, > I know that there was a roll of tape circulating around the list for a > while. But is there a web site of some sort with at least a comparable > tape to order that any one has tested out. > I have been using regular clear box sealing tape. But it falls apart after > about 10 hours of flight time. It is not too thick, and the glue is > starting to make a mess out of the paint. I tried the ski saver stuff from > a ski shop, but it is discontinued as for as they know, plus it had > patterns all over it when it was available. > thanks > Jay Fabian > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:06 PM PST US From: "Don Pearsall" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Gap sealing tape (again) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" Here is a web site that sells real gap seal tape. I have not tried any of these products, but they really sound good. http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page29.htm Don Pearsall -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Gap sealing tape (again) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" It is called SkiSaver tape. I will look for their number. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jay Fabian Subject: Kitfox-List: Gap sealing tape (again) --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" Hi All, I know that there was a roll of tape circulating around the list for a while. But is there a web site of some sort with at least a comparable tape to order that any one has tested out. I have been using regular clear box sealing tape. But it falls apart after about 10 hours of flight time. It is not too thick, and the glue is starting to make a mess out of the paint. I tried the ski saver stuff from a ski shop, but it is discontinued as for as they know, plus it had patterns all over it when it was available. thanks Jay Fabian