Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:51 AM - Re: Kitfox crash (kitfoxjunky)
2. 04:12 AM - SV: Kitfox crash (Michel Verheughe)
3. 05:14 AM - Re: Gap sealing tape (again) (Jim Burke)
4. 05:30 AM - Re: Bottom False Ribs (Jose M. Toro)
5. 05:51 AM - Jabiru WAS: Bottom False Ribs (Michel Verheughe)
6. 08:22 AM - Re: Kitfox crash (Marc Arseneault)
7. 09:40 AM - WAS Back from NY and on the list (OFF TOPIC) (Scott McClintock)
8. 11:07 AM - Re: WAS Back from NY and on the list (OFF TOPIC) (jdmcbean)
9. 11:28 AM - Re: Gap sealing tape (again) (George Wells)
Message 1
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06:51:21 AM,
Serialize complete at 09/15/2004 06:51:21 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "kitfoxjunky" <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Thanks for passing on some of the details Don. I went through my first
forced approach last month, and when I read the article about Mike G's
accident it stuck pretty close to home. My Kitfox took a lot of abuse in
the process, and I am still repairing it, but I am convinced a lot of
other airframes would not have done so well. I agree with Mike, they are
one tough little airplane. It sounds like he and his passenger are going
to come through it OK, which is excellent knews, and what really matters.
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
"Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
09/15/2004 12:38 AM
Please respond to kitfox-list
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
cc:
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox crash
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall"
<donpearsall@comcast.net>
Michael,
I sure hope you have a speedy and full recovery, but it sounds like you
have
been through a lot of pain already. Thank you for sharing your crash story
with us. Do you have any idea of what caused the crash landing?
Your advice about making a forced landing where rescue will be easiest is
good. I will remember that.
I hope you can go home soon.
Don Pearsall
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
michaelgibbs@cox.net
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox crash
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <michaelgibbs@cox.net>
Michel says,
<http://www.paysonroundup.com/section/frontpage_lead/story/16395>
Does anyone know anything more?
Don's right, it was me and a friend from work. Although the newspaper
clipping got a little bit of it right, they didn't do such a good job on
the
details.
After breakfast and re-fueling at Payson, AZ, we took off to return to
Phoenix
(typically about a 30 to 40 minute flight). The NTSB and FAA are both
still
investigating and I am suffering from some memory loss as a result of the
impact, so I can't say too much, but I can tell you that I am not aware of
any
pre-accident failure of the engine, propeller, airframe, or flight
controls.
There was no attempt at a landing because we were attempting to keep
flying! Impact was in an area of very rough terrain that really slowed
down
rescue attempts. My advice is that if you decide to crash your airplane,
do
so
where rescuers will be able to reach you easily.
Injuries were more severe than originally reported. Both of us suffered
facial
injuries after smashing our heads into the panel. Both of my legs are
broken
below the knee and my passenger fractured a vertebra along with his
pelvis.
When we arrived at the hospital I stopped breathing and had to be
intubated
on the heli-pad. Total time from crash to arrival at the hospital was
nearly
five hours (odds of a successful recovery increase dramatically if this
can
be
kept to an hour or less). The week after the crash one of my doctors told
me
that he had not expected my passenger or I to have survived.
My passenger was able to return to work this week, but I remain in the
hospital unable to walk. I have had 4 surgeries so far and they expect
one
more will be required to complete repairs on my leg bones.
Thanks for the kind thoughts and wishes from the list. I look forward to
getting back into the saddle. It won't be in this Kitfox, however,
because
the
airplane was completely destroyed in the accident (lots of tears). I'd
like
to
think that the airplane sacrificed itself doing just what it was supposed
to
do--it protected us from the worst of the fierce impact.
The airframe had about 70 hours on it at the time of the accident.
Mike G.
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: michaelgibbs@cox.net
> Injuries were more severe than originally reported.
I am sorry to hear that, Mike. I hope you get well soon.
When you have a bit of time, I'd appreciate your comments on the injuries you and
your friend suffered and how you see it could be prevented in a Kitfox. As
you know, I fly with the compulsory helmet in Norway. Do you think a helmet would
have helped you? Is there other things in the kockpit that need more securing,
padding?
But all that when you feel better. First concentrate on your health and your family.
Best regards,
Michel
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Gap sealing tape (again) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@direcway.com>
Scotch=AE Transparent Duct Tapes works Great. I have been using it all summer
with no problems. It should be available from your local hardware.
James E. Burke
(N94JE)
-------Original Message-------
From: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Gap sealing tape (again)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay Fabian" <experimental208nd@comcast
net>
Hi All,
I know that there was a roll of tape circulating around the list for a while
But is there a web site of some sort with at least a comparable tape to
order that any one has tested out.
I have been using regular clear box sealing tape. But it falls apart after
about 10 hours of flight time. It is not too thick, and the glue is starting
to make a mess out of the paint. I tried the ski saver stuff from a ski shop
but it is discontinued as for as they know, plus it had patterns all over
it when it was available.
thanks
Jay Fabian
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Bottom False Ribs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Jerry:
Definitely you have a point! That is the kind of flight that I typically do.
My KF II cruises at 65 mph at 5500 rpm with the 582. I have flown it with the
doors closed just twice.
Do you think that a Jabiru 2200 would be a good alternative for a KF II? From
previous postings, I have learned that the difference in terms of weight and balance
is negligible (582 vs Jabiru). I know that Jabiru USA offers it for the
KF II, but don't know of any KF II actually using it.
Jose
Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles
The Kitfox II wing is an undercamber design. You could make false ribs
but they should follow the lines of the true ribs and you would have to
put in a small spar (sparlet) to support the ends. I doubt they would
be of much use other than add complexity and weight. The undercamber
airfoil is a very good STOL foil, it can be made faster with horsepower,
but for speed you would really need a different foil and that would
really be out of character for the Model II, which is a fun, take off
from a pasture in 100 feet, low and slow, fly with the doors open kind
of plane. Frankly that, in my book, beats speed all hollow for just
pure fun.
Jerry Liles
Jerry Liles
Jose M. Toro wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
>
>Hi All:
>
>Is it possible to adapt bottom false ribs to KF II wings? Would this make the
wing faster? What increase in weight should I expect?
>
>
>Jos M. Toro, P.E.
>Kitfox II/582
>"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
Message 5
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| Subject: | Jabiru WAS: Bottom False Ribs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Jose M. Toro [jose_m_toro@yahoo.com]
> Do you think that a Jabiru 2200 would be a good alternative for a KF II?
Hello Jose,
Like you, I have a Kitfox with STOL undercambered wings, a Rotax 582 and I trive
flying slow at say, 70 MPH. I have the KF model 3 but I don't think it makes
much a difference.
I will soon be the owner of a Jabiru 2200. I think I made the right choice because
I want a simple engine that goes without trouble. From what I have been told,
I can expect a lower rate of climb but that is not important for me, I fly
from a very long airfield with no obstacles in both directions.
I understand that the most important thing about a Jabiru running well is proper
cooling. And there we have to be careful because I believe the air cooling of
an engine is to the square of the speed and ... we fly slow. I have been told
that under a climb, I should keep 70 MPH to give enough air to the engine. I
have also been told that we should have an air outlet that is four times the
size of the inlet. That's the penality for flying slow.
Last, we both have the round cowling that looks so cool on our planes. Well, it
is not the best thing to have for proper cooling. So far, the best solution I
have found is to mould the aft end of my cowling to the fore end of a Jabiru
plane smooth cowling. Apparently it should fit. Will it look nice? I don't know.
But I know that a plane that has a sound installation and well-running engine,
looks nice anyway. Especially when my son will borrow the plane and fly around.
I'd like to feel he is safe and safety ... is beautiful! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
Michael I wish you a full and speedy recovery!
Keep us informed on your progress and what they conclude from the investigation.
Best Regards,
Marc Arseneault
Ontario Canada
From: michaelgibbs@cox.net Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox crash Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 21:35:36 -0400 -- Kitfox-List message posted by: michaelgibbs@cox.net Michel says, http://www.paysonroundup.com/section/frontpage_lead/story/16395 Does anyone know anything more? Don's right, it was me and a friend from work. Although the newspaper clipping got a little bit of it right, they didn't do such a good job on the details. After breakfast and re-fueling at Payson, AZ, we took off to return to Phoenix (typically about a 30 to 40 minute flight). The NTSB and FAA are both still investigating and I am suffering from some memory loss as a result of the impact, so I can't say too much, but I can tell you t
hat I am not aware of any pre-accident failure of the engine, propeller, airframe,
or flight controls. There was no attempt at a landing because we were attempting
to keep flying! Impact was in an area of very rough terrain that really
slowed down rescue attempts. My advice is that if you decide to crash your airplane,
do so where rescuers will be able to reach you easily. Injuries were
more severe than originally reported. Both of us suffered facial injuries after
smashing our heads into the panel. Both of my legs are broken below the knee
and my passenger fractured a vertebra along with his pelvis. When we arrived
at the hospital I stopped breathing and had to be intubated on the heli-pad. Total
time from crash to arrival at the hospital was nearly five hours (odds of
a successful recovery increase dramatically if this can be kept to an hour or
less). The week after the crash one of my doctors told me that he had not expected
my passenger or I to have survived. My passenge
l>Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join
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Message 7
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| Subject: | WAS Back from NY and on the list (OFF TOPIC) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock <scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Scott,
You get by Idaho.. give me a shout...
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
John and Debra,
I haven't decided yet to fly or drive to Texas. If I drive, I would love
to stop by and visit with you folks in Idaho.
I owe George and Karen Wells in Cour de A'lene a visit too. Are you in
Caldwell?
Thanks for the invitation.
Scott in Nome
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 8
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| Subject: | WAS Back from NY and on the list (OFF TOPIC) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Scott,
We actually live in Meridian... about 20 miles east of Caldwell.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott McClintock
Subject: Kitfox-List: WAS Back from NY and on the list (OFF TOPIC)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Scott McClintock
<scott_mcclintock@dot.state.ak.us>
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Scott,
You get by Idaho.. give me a shout...
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
John and Debra,
I haven't decided yet to fly or drive to Texas. If I drive, I would love
to stop by and visit with you folks in Idaho.
I owe George and Karen Wells in Cour de A'lene a visit too. Are you in
Caldwell?
Thanks for the invitation.
Scott in Nome
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Gap sealing tape (again) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "George Wells" <georgewells@adelphia.net>
Jay -- Try this place for tape -- They call it scuff saver tape TYC 7210
and its $2.95 / Ft. They say this is what they provided to the company for
Ski Saver. I had Ski Saver on my other Fox and this seems like the same
stuff.
Tognar Toolworks --- Info@tognar.com
George
.
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