Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:33 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Jimmie Blackwell)
2. 02:04 AM - Fuel Mizer (Graeme Toft)
3. 04:24 AM - Re: Applying Gap Seal tape. (Shane Fewings)
4. 04:25 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
5. 04:42 AM - Re: Applying Gap Seal tape. (Larry Huntley)
6. 05:29 AM - Re: All the Jabirus that I've seen use wood props. Since Puerto Rico is an extremely (Jose M. Toro)
7. 07:01 AM - Re: SV: Jabiru (Lowell Fitt)
8. 07:04 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Ben Baltrusaitis)
9. 07:16 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Floran Higgins)
10. 08:09 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Paul)
11. 08:29 AM - LANDING GEAR FOR CLASSICC IV.... (PEDRO PEREZ)
12. 09:28 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (David Savener)
13. 09:50 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (David Savener)
14. 10:41 AM - Re: SV: Jabiru (Kerry Skyring)
15. 10:54 AM - Can't believe it... (jdmcbean)
16. 11:00 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (kurt schrader)
17. 12:03 PM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Jimmie Blackwell)
18. 12:17 PM - Re: Applying Gap Seal tape. (Randy Daughenbaugh)
19. 12:37 PM - France and Jabiru (Michel Verheughe)
20. 02:41 PM - Re: Diedral in a Classic IV / John McBean (icaza francisco)
21. 04:50 PM - Heater Install (George Wells)
22. 05:14 PM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
23. 07:08 PM - Re: Heater Install (Floran Higgins)
24. 09:31 PM - N2BH IS FLYING! (KITFOXPILOT@att.net)
25. 11:36 PM - Re: N2BH IS FLYING! (Don Pearsall)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Don
Very good thoughts. Thank you.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> > I will probably need to trailer a plane about 1300 miles in the near
future
> > and I am thinking of having an open trailer fabricated for the trip.
Just
> > wonder if anyone on the list has trailered a Kitfox that far and any
> > suggestions you would have on trailer construction. Would be great if
someone in the
> > Texas area has a trailer
>
> Jimmie,
> These are my personal thoughts on trailering a kitfox. The trailer
must
> be light and sprung only to carry the weight of the plane trailer, fuel,
> tools and what ever else is normally carried. I would look at other than
steel
> leaf springs if possible (the ride should be near that of a fine car).
The
> trailer should have imbedded fuel tanks to hold the capacity of the planes
fuel
> tanks plus a 12 VDC fuel transfer pump. The trailer must have dual axles
to
> help transition any bumps in the road (at least 14" tires not the little
ones
> ??). One should provide a separate tie back strap around the wing tips of
both
> wings in case the built in tie back bars should fail. A good set of
support
> rods from the fuselage to the leading edge of each wing is a must. Do not
> trailer with fuel in the wing tanks (too heave). The tail of the plane
must be
> elevated to near flight position. There should be a method of supporting
the
> tail where there is no tension on the tail spring. I might even consider
an
> independent tail suspension system to support the aft section of the tail
high
> ramp.
> An average homebuilt utility trailer designed to haul tons of weight
can
> exceed the "G" forces on a Kitfox. The trailer design should be such that
you
> yourself would ride very comfortable on during the 1300 mile trip.
>
> My opinion on trailering a Fox................
> Don Smythe
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Hi Guys, This is an interesting one as it is a subject many of us using the Navman
fuel system have looked into. What I found with fuel mizer is that the sender
which fits into the fuel line is encased in an alloy house just in case it
leaks. That is the only difference I have been able to establish between the
2 units. There are many aircraft in Australia flying with both Navman and Fuel
mizer. I have a Navman myself and find it works perfectly. They are solid state
units that send fuel flow information to a digital read out. I fly my 582 off
the Navman for economy and find that when I have a reading of 18 litres per
hour everything else is lined up also. ie RPM, temps, IAS. I did speak to Ole
Jensen who produces the Fuel Mizer and he was understandably very gaurded about
the alterations he makes. Navman also had little information about these changes
to their units. The thing is if you purchase a Fuel Mizer you have an altered
or customised Navman, the latter being designed for marine use.
Cheers
Graeme
Message 3
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| Subject: | Applying Gap Seal tape. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Shane Fewings" <sfewings@tpg.com.au>
Guys
Thanks for your input on the Gap Seals.
Regards
Shane
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 9/20/04 12:34:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jablackwell@ev1.net writes:
>
> Don
> Very good thoughts. Thank you.
> Jimmie
>
Jimmie,
Those are just thoughts. I had it all on paper a couple times but never
followed through. I always wondered if two rear axles from a front wheel
drive luxury car could be adapted to a trailer (junk yards are full of them).
If
you get a good design, please forward me a copy. I was even going to have the
plane's mains sit on two hinged plates in the bottom of the trailer that were
independently shock isolated. That was also a thought that never
materialized.
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Applying Gap Seal tape. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
Hi Roger,
I got mine from a skiing friend. I will check it out,but sounds like Rex
has a good source for something that might be even better???? Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "roger augenstein" <raugenstein@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Applying Gap Seal tape.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "roger augenstein"
<raugenstein@fuse.net>
>
> Larry,
>
> Where do I find ski saver tape? I have asked for it at 3 different ski
> shops and no one seems to know what it is. Maybe a company name or web
> address. Thanks for anyones help.
>
> Roger KY S5 Sub EJ22
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Applying Gap Seal tape.
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
> >
> > I used Ski Saver tape. Put elevator in down position,applied tape on
> > top,.cut it to adhere about 3/8" on each side. Worked well until
cracking
> > about 3 yrs later. No problem in below freezing weather. Peeled off W/
> heat
> > gun and replaced. Increased elevator authority significantly.
> > Larry Huntley,Kitfox
4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Applying Gap Seal tape.
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall"
> > <donpearsall@comcast.net>
> > >
> > > Hi Don,
> > > I have seen the "S" method you have mentioned. It is typically done
with
> > > fabric. I instructed for a while in a Maule that had this, and I did
not
> > > like the looks of it. There was always dirt, mud and water down in the
> > gap.
> > >
> > > Glider flyers have a Teflon tape they use for gap sealing. I think the
> way
> > > to apply it would be to move the elevator down to it's downward limit
> and
> > > then apply it tight. That way when the elevator is level, there will
be
> > the
> > > least amount of bulge in the tape from flexing.
> > >
> > > BUT, others may have a better way and please feel free to chime in.
> > >
> > >
> > > Don Pearsall
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > > AlbertaIV@aol.com
> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Applying Gap Seal tape.
> > >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Shane,
> > > You only need to apply to the upper side. That way it looks best and
> does
> > > not trap water in the folds.
> > >
> > > Don Pearsall
> > >
> > >
> > > Don P.
> > > You say top side only. I've heard of the "S" method where two
tapes
> > are
> > >
> > > overlapped by 1/2 where one sticks to the upper side (stabilizer) and
> the
> > > other sticks to the lower side (elevator) as you pass it through the
> hinge
> > > opening. This method always seemed to me that it would as you say,
> trap
> > > all kinds
> > > of stuff.
> > > If you run a straight piece of tape on the top only, do you apply
it
> > > with
> > > the elevator up/down or straight? Or, am I missing the one tape on top
> > > method?
> > > I'm in the process of doing all the speed mods and have put off
> doing
> > > the
> > > gap sealing tape because I always felt there must be a better way and
> > didn't
> > >
> > > like the trap you mention.
> > >
> > > Don Smythe
> > > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: All the Jabirus that I've seen use wood props. Since |
Puerto Rico is an extremely
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Rex:
Thanks for this valuable information, based on your experience there in Australia.
What do you think is the slowest speed that the plane can cruise keeping enough
air flow into the cylinders?
Rex & Jan Shaw <rexjan@bigpond.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw"
All the Jabirus that I've seen use wood props. Since Puerto Rico is an
extremely
humid place, I would like to use a composite prop. I recall from a
comparison
table that was recently posted that the Warp 2 blades prop can be used.
Could
any of you recomend other non-wood, groung adjustable alternatives???
Guys I have been watching this discussion with interest but wasn't sure I
should comment. I have a Kitfox IV/582 and train in a Jabiru plane with the
2200 motor. When I saw the question re composite props on a Jabiru motor
though I felt I had to put my bit in. Do not under any circumstances run a
composite prop on a Jabiru 2200. It will definitely end in tears. I am from
Australia where these are made and get to hear a lot about them. There is a
lot of work being done to try and solve the problems of the composite prop
on a Jabiru but as yet it is a very big NO NO !
On the other hand the Jabiru is a good engine as you guys are saying. It
does need carefull attention so as not to overheat especially the oil
though. Jabiru say don't fly in more than 40 degrees celsius. An oil cooler
is essential in all but the coolest weather. I think slow speeds in a Mod II
might also offer a challenge as we need to cruise climb at 80 knots or we
overheat in the Jabiru plane.
I hope this helps.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Roger, I agree with you and it is one reason the 5,6,7 series Kitfoxes
don't tempt me so much. Along with my size and demands for luggage, I
really don't need a bigger airplane. The Model IV is a perfect match for
the 912UL. Some flying the IV have opted for the ULS for the extra HP, but
that doesn't tempt me either as I have ample experience with what I have and
have never felt the need of the extra 20 hp.
For the bigger airplanes there is always the question of how much HP you
need for what you want to do. Since the airframe is pretty much designed
around engines in the 912 weight class, there are issues regarding CG -
forward swept wings, batteries and accessories in the tail etc. These
issues have to be considered in the choice of engine. some have addressed
these and have made decisions that for them are reasonable and practical and
they are very satisfied with those decisions. It becomes a matter of
personal choice as you know. I don't think there are any absolutely
correct answers, but there can be correct choices based on ones personal
preferences and needs.
Good Luck,
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger L" <yiotta@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Jabiru
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Roger L <yiotta@yahoo.com>
>
> This is by far the hardest decision, which engine...
> So much misinformation, and so many pilots that fly
> "other then kit/homebuild" airplanes that are constantly
> badmouthing everything except Lycoming and Continentals...
> Safety is VERY important to me, how can a guy possibly
> decide? You could spend years researching, and by then there
> will be more to research, it is a neverending process and it
> is frustrating....
> Roger L
>
>
> Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@inreach.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
>
> Thanks Paul, To try to be fair, I checked the Rotax website for
> documentation - for the first time actually, I had previously gotten all
my
> info from the Rotax Owners Association - and was pleased to find a
> searchable list of all Service Bulletins and letters.
>
> I also from time to time (just did my search again in the interest of
> fairness) search other manufacturers and conversion shops for their
> bulletins and so far, I have been totally disappointed in the search.
> Whether the bulletins/letters exist, I can't say, I can say however, they
> are not found on line in the companies websites. One has pages dedicated
to
> bulletins, but they are blank and there have been grapevine issues with
> these engines.
>
> My strong advice to those looking for engines - check the manufacturer's
> website for documentation especially service bulletins. If they haven't
> been in business long enough to have learned of their engines weaknesses
> beware. If they have been in business long enough to have learned
something
> about their engines (Paul mentioned the grapevine) and still there are no
> published service bulletins/letters, buy at your own risk and prepare to
> learn on your own or through the grapevine.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul"
>
> To:
> Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Jabiru
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul
>
> >
> > Hi Lowell,
> > Your point is well taken. Apparently some pilots just dont want any
> input. We have all heard of the disasters of most other engines and the
> only way people find out is by the grapevine. Rotax has an automatic
> notification program via email, but they send notices by type instead of
by
> specific serial number. However, one can search like you did by serial
> number. The last time I did that it missed the generic messages like
proper
> oil to use.
> > I just read the notices and keep the ones that apply.
> >
> > Conclusion: Rotax provided great owner support.
> >
> > Regards, Paul
> > =============
> > At 9:19 PM -0700 9/17/04, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> > >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt"
> > >
> > >Jose,
> > >
> > >I have a 912 UL and just went to the Rotax Owners Association and did a
> > >search on my engine by serial number for appropriate Service Bulletins
> and
> > >Service letters. My advice to the doubters, try it some time. If you
> need
> > >a serial number drop me a post or just check for engine type.
> > >
> > >Such topics covered:
> > >
> > >-Recommended engine oils.
> > >-New dipstick - - (both these items have to do with the EPA mandated
> > >changes in the formulations that have resulted in oil foaming due to
the
> > >mandatory removal of anti-foaming additives.) Yes Rotax does research
> and
> > >test engine oils.
> > >-Proper alignment of piston rings when overhauling an engine
> > >-Carburetor flange, proper fixation and inspection.
> > >-New starter available
> > >-inspection procedures for detection of crank case cracks.
> > >-Stator replacement - For which Rotax supplied free parts, free loan of
> > >tools or free everything if the engine is returned to a Rotax Service
> > >Letter.
> > >-Increase in TBO
> > >
> > >Question - which other engine manufacturer is more thorough in
informing
> > >it's users of issues that arise. My understanding is that the mandatory
> > >stator replacement was because of less than half a dozen incidents that
> were
> > >due to poor maintenance practices with the engines in certified
trainers.
> > >
> > >Question - Can it be possible that the silent ones somehow have finally
> > >built the perfect engine?
> > >
> > >I really have trouble believing that no news is good news when it comes
> to
> > >aircraft engines.
> > >
> > >Respectfully,
> > >
> > >Lowell
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Jose M. Toro"
> > >To:
> > >Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Jabiru
> > >
> > >
> > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro"
>
> > >>
> > >> Michel:
> > >>
> > >> I don't have a 912 and, as far as I understand, there is no 912 in
> Puerto
> > >Rico currently. However, I continuously receive Mandatory Service
> > >Bulletins from Rotax about problems with the 912. Based on what I've
> heard,
> > >912 can't be a better alternative than a Jabiru.
> > >> A four stroke, air cooled, direct drive, light and smooth engine
seems
> to
> > >be a better alternative.
> > >>
> > >> Michel Verheughe wrote:
> > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> > >>
> > >> Hello Kerry,
> > >>
> > >> Kerry Skyring wrote:
> > >> > Something doesn't quite ring true with the round "bump" cowl and a
> flat
> > >four
> > >> > like the 912 or Jabiru.
> > >>
> > >> Oh, I really like the look of my model 3, Kerry. And I could install
a
> 912
> > >> without changing the cowling. So, why do I choose a Jabiru? Probably
> > >because it
> > >> is a simpler engine. In my mind, less is more. I wish to have a plane
I
> > >can
> > >> just fly without thinking much about the engine. I don't need high
> speed
> > >nor
> > >> extreme STOL performance, only something that I, or my son, can fly
> > >without worrying.
> > >> Maybe my choice is wrong. Maybe a 912 would be better. I have bought
> yet
> > >the
> > >> Jabiru and I am all listening to the advices from the list.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >> Michel
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Jose M. Toro, P.E.
> > >> Kitfox II/582
> > >> "A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
> > >>
> > >>
> > > > ---------------------------------
> >
> > --
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben Baltrusaitis" <ben@gmpexpress.net>
Yes Archive!
Don this is a great, through answer to a question that will come up again. I was
going to ask the question related to 1000 miles and you saved me from wrecking
a plane. Thanks!!
Ben
----- Original Message -----
From: AlbertaIV@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> I will probably need to trailer a plane about 1300 miles in the near future
> and I am thinking of having an open trailer fabricated for the trip. Just
> wonder if anyone on the list has trailered a Kitfox that far and any
> suggestions you would have on trailer construction. Would be great if someone
in the
> Texas area has a trailer
Jimmie,
These are my personal thoughts on trailering a kitfox. The trailer must
be light and sprung only to carry the weight of the plane trailer, fuel,
tools and what ever else is normally carried. I would look at other than steel
leaf springs if possible (the ride should be near that of a fine car). The
trailer should have imbedded fuel tanks to hold the capacity of the planes fuel
tanks plus a 12 VDC fuel transfer pump. The trailer must have dual axles to
help transition any bumps in the road (at least 14" tires not the little ones
??). One should provide a separate tie back strap around the wing tips of both
wings in case the built in tie back bars should fail. A good set of support
rods from the fuselage to the leading edge of each wing is a must. Do not
trailer with fuel in the wing tanks (too heave). The tail of the plane must
be
elevated to near flight position. There should be a method of supporting the
tail where there is no tension on the tail spring. I might even consider an
independent tail suspension system to support the aft section of the tail high
ramp.
An average homebuilt utility trailer designed to haul tons of weight can
exceed the "G" forces on a Kitfox. The trailer design should be such that you
yourself would ride very comfortable on during the 1300 mile trip.
My opinion on trailering a Fox................
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
I trailered my model 4 from California to Mont. on a 20 ft. snowmoble
trailer. I used 1X4X1 inch board battens to hold the rudder and elevator in
neutral. I covered all of the windows and other openings with the plastic
shrink wrap that they use to ship boats. I set the tail on a wooden sawhorse
on the bolt that holds the tail spring. I made braces out of conduit to hold
the outer wing root.
We made the trip without any damage.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall"
<donpearsall@comcast.net>
>
> Those are all excellent point's Don. As has been mentioned here before, if
> the 'fox is trailered on a trailer that was designed for something heavy,
> like a boat or car, the plane will most likely encounter G-forces and
> stresses far beyond its design limits. There have been reports of engine
> mounts bending or cracking once the trailer hit a pothole or went over a
> curb.
>
>
> Don Pearsall
>
>
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> AlbertaIV@aol.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> > I will probably need to trailer a plane about 1300 miles in the near
> future
> > and I am thinking of having an open trailer fabricated for the trip.
Just
>
> > wonder if anyone on the list has trailered a Kitfox that far and any
> > suggestions you would have on trailer construction. Would be great if
> someone in the
> > Texas area has a trailer
>
> Jimmie,
> These are my personal thoughts on trailering a kitfox. The trailer
must
>
> be light and sprung only to carry the weight of the plane trailer, fuel,
> tools and what ever else is normally carried. I would look at other than
> steel
> leaf springs if possible (the ride should be near that of a fine car).
The
> trailer should have imbedded fuel tanks to hold the capacity of the planes
> fuel
> tanks plus a 12 VDC fuel transfer pump. The trailer must have dual axles
to
>
> help transition any bumps in the road (at least 14" tires not the little
> ones
> ??). One should provide a separate tie back strap around the wing tips of
> both
> wings in case the built in tie back bars should fail. A good set of
support
>
> rods from the fuselage to the leading edge of each wing is a must. Do not
> trailer with fuel in the wing tanks (too heave). The tail of the plane
must
> be
> elevated to near flight position. There should be a method of supporting
> the
> tail where there is no tension on the tail spring. I might even consider
an
>
> independent tail suspension system to support the aft section of the tail
> high
> ramp.
> An average homebuilt utility trailer designed to haul tons of weight
can
>
> exceed the "G" forces on a Kitfox. The trailer design should be such that
> you
> yourself would ride very comfortable on during the 1300 mile trip.
>
> My opinion on trailering a Fox................
> Don Smythe
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
I moved my whole project 400+ miles here in CO on a car hauler. I just got it
unpacked and found no damage at all. I built side/front/rear walls 4' high and
slung the wings on the side. I slung the flaperons under the fuge. I strapped
the wheels to the wood deck and lashed the tailwheel to the deck. Covered the
trailer with a tarp tightly attached to the sides and front/rear. Slung the
wings with carpet scraps from the front spar. Lots of foam between the wing and
wood sides. Lots of foam around the flaperons. Loose items like wing rotisserie
struts etc. were lashed to the floor under the fuge with more carpet scraps.
Used lots of bunge cords and cinch straps. I moved mine with the engine installed
so there was little load on the tail wheel, a good thing and allowed the
flaperons to be off the floor so other loose stuff could be there. I had the
help of Tom Tomlin, another KF builder, so two heads made it all possible. It
took us a half day to pack the thing all up. Thanks Tom , your help was invaluable.
Drove slow with the tires at lower than normal pressure. Kept checking for parts
that might shift and had to make a minor in route revision. No big deal. The
trailer had 2 3500# axles.
What ever you do never trailer with the wings attached to the fuge. Rent a commercial
car hauler (flat bed) or box trailer or box van. Any will work fine.
Car haulers 18' long go for around $1500+ new and less used. All the car nuts
have at least one parked nearby.
Regards, Paul
===========
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
>I will probably need to trailer a plane about 1300 miles in the near future and
I am thinking of having an open trailer fabricated for the trip. Just wonder
if anyone on the list has trailered a Kitfox that far and any suggestions you
would have on trailer construction. Would be great if someone in the Texas
area has a trailer they would rent or sell me for such a trip.
>
>Thanks
>
>Jimmie
--
Message 11
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| Subject: | LANDING GEAR FOR CLASSICC IV.... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "PEDRO PEREZ" <5324@PRTC.NET>
HELLO LIST: I AM LOOKING FOR A FACTORY LANDING GEAR FOR MY CLASSIC IV 1200..........
I LOOSE IT IN A FORCED LANDING.......
ANY OF YOU THAT CHANGE TO SPRING L.G....
THANKS,
PEDRO
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:27:30 -0500
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
I saw a Kolb cushioned on a trailer with truck inner-tubes under the fuselage and
smaller tubes under the mains. I thought that to be an elegant solution.
Dave Savener
----- Original Message -----
From: AlbertaIV@aol.com<mailto:AlbertaIV@aol.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 6:25 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com<mailto:AlbertaIV@aol.com>
In a message dated 9/20/04 12:34:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jablackwell@ev1.net<mailto:jablackwell@ev1.net> writes:
>
> Don
> Very good thoughts. Thank you.
> Jimmie
>
Jimmie,
Those are just thoughts. I had it all on paper a couple times but never
followed through. I always wondered if two rear axles from a front wheel
drive luxury car could be adapted to a trailer (junk yards are full of them).
If
you get a good design, please forward me a copy. I was even going to have the
plane's mains sit on two hinged plates in the bottom of the trailer that were
independently shock isolated. That was also a thought that never
materialized.
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:50:06 -0500
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "David Savener" <david_savener@msn.com>
Jimmy,
Our mutual friend had to bring his speedster home from Grand Canyon Airport without
flying it.
He rented a enclosed Ryder truck(for security and out of the weather). He removed
the wings, then wrapped four foot wide strips of carpet around each wing and
fastened the carpet loops to the sides of the truck box. The leading edge
of the wing was about five inches above and parallel to the floor.
Each main gear was cushioned with high density foam.
The tail wheel was raised to near flight attitude. He had a tripod out of 2X4s
and cushioned it with the same high density foam. The tailwheel tripod rested
just below the front end of the tail wheel spring.
Cargo straps fastened to the sides kept it from moving sideways and front to back.
He told me he was allowed to use a loading dock nearby and loaded by himself.
When he got home we had no loading dock but we rounded up 10 aviation experts(airport
bums) and easily lifted it out the back of the truck.
Probably cheaper, quicker, easier, etc. etc. etc.
Dave Savener
----- Original Message -----
From: Jimmie Blackwell<mailto:jablackwell@ev1.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 10:44 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net<mailto:jablackwell@ev1.net>>
I will probably need to trailer a plane about 1300 miles in the near future and
I am thinking of having an open trailer fabricated for the trip. Just wonder
if anyone on the list has trailered a Kitfox that far and any suggestions
you would have on trailer construction. Would be great if someone in the Texas
area has a trailer they would rent or sell me for such a trip.
Thanks
Jimmie
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Kerry Skyring" <kerryskyring@hotmail.com>
Michel wrote,
>Regarding a European Kitfox fly-in, how about Chambley in Lorraine? Is it a
>good place? Have you been there before?
Michel no I have not been to Chambley but once we get this Kitfox flying
this is exactly the type of trip I would love to make. I visit France (by
car) at least once a year and have heard all the stories about what a great
flying country it is. Chambley (or somewhere else in France) would be
perfect for the Brits, the Austrians, the Germans and the Norwegians too.
Chris from Britain are you still on the list? I seem to recall you were very
keen for a European get-together. We still have quite a bit to do to get
this thing flying but when it does it will turn its smooth cowl towards
other parts of Europe. Some time in the next six months we will (should) be
finished.
Michel I really think you have made the right decision with the Jabiru and
you have all the right info. to get the cooling right. Airspeed over the
cylider heads is important. In my weekend flight in the (aging) Motorfalke a
climb at 100 kmh had the CHT hitting the red line. Dropping the nose and
increasing the airspeed to a spine bending 110 kmh brought it back to the
green.
In the end the "right decision" is the decision that is right for you and
involves lots of variables.
Kerry
PS For European builders we have left over a smooth cowl for an 0-200
installation on an S5. A result of a late decision to go Rotax instead of
Conti. Email me off list if interested.
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Can't believe it... |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Well here we are September 20th 2004. As I was preparing for what is going
to be an over 2000+ mile journey in our Fox I realized that N102YB received
her Airworthiness certificate Sept 24th 2003. So with 170 hours I started
the condition inspection (Annual) this weekend.
So far I have found nothing unusual.. except the compression of that
wonderful 912ULS engine. 1 - 80 / 79.5 2 - 80 / 79.5 3 - 80 / 79.5
4 - 80 / 79
Actually 2 of them you could call 80 / 80
When I worked at SkyStar it was the same thing on the 912S powered Series 6
& Classic IV / Lite.. It still amazes me !!!
ROGER ask your local Continental and Lycoming guys what the typical
compressions are on their engines.. 80 / 78 is considered great Thats
what my Continental was after 75 hrs on a Top Overhaul. Dont misunderstand
me.. I really like the Cont and Lycs Just most the old timers dont know
much about the 912 engines. I have run into that on several occasions.
Still do.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
The Sky is not the Limit Its a Playground
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Jimmie,
You got a lot of good ideas coming from those who have
done it already. Don's ideas are great and I like the
inner tube idea too. I'll will probably try those
myself some day.
I have only moved my plane 35 miles and used a truck
for that to protect and secure it. I took the wings
off to do it, like some of the others did, and had no
damage to anything.
One other consideration. If you build or buy a
trailer, you can use air suspension for a much
smoother and adjustable ride. Take out some or all
the hard springs and use the air system. Add on units
are available from rec vehicle centers for a few
hundred $. I installed a set on my rec vehicle and
they greatly improved the ride.
Kurt S.
Just
--- AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> > I will probably need to trailer a plane about 1300
> miles in the near future
> > and I am thinking of having an open trailer
> fabricated for the trip. Just
> > wonder if anyone on the list has trailered a
> Kitfox that far and any
> > suggestions you would have on trailer
> construction. Would be great if someone in the
> > Texas area has a trailer
>
> Jimmie,
> These are my personal thoughts on trailering a
> kitfox. The trailer must
> be light and sprung only to carry the weight of the
> plane trailer, fuel,
> tools and what ever else is normally carried. I
> would look at other than steel
> leaf springs if possible (the ride should be near
> that of a fine car). The
> trailer should have imbedded fuel tanks to hold the
> capacity of the planes fuel
> tanks plus a 12 VDC fuel transfer pump. The trailer
> must have dual axles to
> help transition any bumps in the road (at least 14"
> tires not the little ones
> ??). One should provide a separate tie back strap
> around the wing tips of both
> wings in case the built in tie back bars should
> fail. A good set of support
> rods from the fuselage to the leading edge of each
> wing is a must. Do not
> trailer with fuel in the wing tanks (too heave).
> The tail of the plane must be
> elevated to near flight position. There should be a
> method of supporting the
> tail where there is no tension on the tail spring.
> I might even consider an
> independent tail suspension system to support the
> aft section of the tail high
> ramp.
> An average homebuilt utility trailer designed to
> haul tons of weight can
> exceed the "G" forces on a Kitfox. The trailer
> design should be such that you
> yourself would ride very comfortable on during the
> 1300 mile trip.
>
> My opinion on trailering a Fox................
> Don Smythe
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
__________________________________
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Don
Excellent ideas. One more question though. You mention using something
other than steel leaf springs. Are you suggesting coil springs with shock
absorbers or struts?
I went to a very reputable trailer manufacturer today and asked about
putting shocks on a trailer. The salesman looked at me like I was crazy as
though he had never heard of trying to make a trailer ride smooth. You are
very right that most trailers are made for carrying a much heavier load than
a Kitfox.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Baltrusaitis" <ben@gmpexpress.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ben Baltrusaitis" <ben@gmpexpress.net>
>
> Yes Archive!
> Don this is a great, through answer to a question that will come up again.
I was going to ask the question related to 1000 miles and you saved me from
wrecking a plane. Thanks!!
> Ben
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>
> > I will probably need to trailer a plane about 1300 miles in the near
future
> > and I am thinking of having an open trailer fabricated for the trip.
Just
> > wonder if anyone on the list has trailered a Kitfox that far and any
> > suggestions you would have on trailer construction. Would be great if
someone in the
> > Texas area has a trailer
>
> Jimmie,
> These are my personal thoughts on trailering a kitfox. The trailer
must
> be light and sprung only to carry the weight of the plane trailer,
fuel,
> tools and what ever else is normally carried. I would look at other
than steel
> leaf springs if possible (the ride should be near that of a fine car).
The
> trailer should have imbedded fuel tanks to hold the capacity of the
planes fuel
> tanks plus a 12 VDC fuel transfer pump. The trailer must have dual
axles to
> help transition any bumps in the road (at least 14" tires not the little
ones
> ??). One should provide a separate tie back strap around the wing tips
of both
> wings in case the built in tie back bars should fail. A good set of
support
> rods from the fuselage to the leading edge of each wing is a must. Do
not
> trailer with fuel in the wing tanks (too heave). The tail of the plane
must be
> elevated to near flight position. There should be a method of
supporting the
> tail where there is no tension on the tail spring. I might even
consider an
> independent tail suspension system to support the aft section of the
tail high
> ramp.
> An average homebuilt utility trailer designed to haul tons of weight
can
> exceed the "G" forces on a Kitfox. The trailer design should be such
that you
> yourself would ride very comfortable on during the 1300 mile trip.
>
> My opinion on trailering a Fox................
> Don Smythe
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Applying Gap Seal tape. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
I am not familiar with "ski saver" tape, but am using this tape.
http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.asp?SID=&ccurrency=2&page=47940&categor
y=2,43224
It is UV-resistant (tape and adhesive) tape for repairing plastic green
houses. It is pretty stout and seems great so far.
Randy - N10NH Series 5/7 912S
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of roger
augenstein
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Applying Gap Seal tape.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "roger augenstein" <raugenstein@fuse.net>
Larry,
Where do I find ski saver tape? I have asked for it at 3 different ski
shops and no one seems to know what it is. Maybe a company name or web
address. Thanks for anyones help.
Roger KY S5 Sub EJ22
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | France and Jabiru |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Kerry Skyring wrote:
> I visit France (by
> car) at least once a year and have heard all the stories about what a great
> flying country it is. Chambley (or somewhere else in France) would be
> perfect for the Brits, the Austrians, the Germans and the Norwegians too.
France is great. Chambley is pretty central in Europe. The only problem with
the French is that they talk French on the radio. Not a problem for me since
French is my mother tongue but I understand the other pilots - also
professional pilots - who get irritated.
> Dropping the nose and increasing the airspeed to a spine bending 110 kmh brought
> it back to the green.
I understand. But in any case, a plane cannot be piloted as a car, it needs
monitoring. With my 582, I reach 1,200 F EGT when around 5,000 RPM and in a
slight descent. I simply avoid that combination.
I learnt to drive a car with my father who was an instructing pilot in the
Belgian Air Force. He taught me to scan my instruments as pilots do. I still
do. And since I started flying the Kitfox, I notice that I do it even more.
It's a habit, a state of mind. Even when I sail, I do my "walk-around" i.e. I
always go and check every corner of the yacht, especially the first trip of the
season, when things tend to brake down after a long winter rest.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 20
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| Subject: | Diedral in a Classic IV / John McBean |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: icaza francisco <franicaza@yahoo.com.mx>
Hi John,
I checked my Classic IV dihedral in the weekend and I
found almost 2.3 degrees. Ill fix it. Probably thats
why I can not make closer turns as I used to.
Thanks a lot,
Francisco.
--- jdmcbean <jdmcbean@cableone.net> escribi:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
> <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Dihedral varied with the earlier models. Current
> factory aircraft have 1
> degree dihedral and 1 degree washout.
>
>
> Blue Skies
> John & Debra McBean
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Diedral in a Classic IV
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
>
> Hello list members,
>
> After sufering a ground loop, I changed the left
> wing
> of my Classic IV. Ive noticed trough my GPS that I
> used to make closer 360o turns (about 0.3 and even
> .02
> of mile in diameter)before the incident. Now I can
> make at most 1/2 mile close turns. Ive also noticed
> that I have a little more diedral than two other
> kitfoxes Ive seen lately. Does anybody know how much
> diedral it should have? Probably I made a mistake
> mesureing the struts rodends when I put them again.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Francisco Icaza
> Classic IV
>
> La mejor conexin a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo
> por $100 al mes.
> http://net.yahoo.com.mx
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
La mejor conexin a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "George Wells" <georgewells@adelphia.net>
I presently have a KF 4 without a heater. I am looking for info on
installing either a Heat Muff type or a unit using radiator water. Any info
on both the pros and cons will be appreciated. My KF has a Rotex 912 80 HP
engine.
Thanks, Sorry if this is a double post !!
George
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> Don
>
> Excellent ideas. One more question though. You mention using something
> other than steel leaf springs. Are you suggesting coil springs with shock
> absorbers or struts?
>
Jimmie,
I really don't know. Steel leaf springs are normally used on heavy
trailers, trucks, motorhomes, etc. Our Babies needs a smoother ride. Leaf springs
might be good for a trailer rated at 20,000 lbs and carrying a 19,000 lb
load. I was suggesting using a rear axle setup from a luxury car. That could
be
coils, struts, shocks or a combination of each. I don't know the answer
because I didn't carry the design thought that far.
As you have seen, several have used different methods of trailering and
reported no problems. My concern (based on past reports of damage) is, you
might have damage that you don't see. There was a Kitfox owner not long ago that
had his fuselage buckle in the middle while trailering. The threat of damage
is there and it should be realized.
Using the large tire tubes sound great for a one time trailering. If you
will trailer often, I think a more permanent design is in order.
Reminds me of a quick story. I was once involved in the transportation
of submarine periscopes. The scopes came from Norfolk to Newport News, Va. (15
miles) on tractor trailers with "air ride" suspension. Once installed on the
Subs, several were wiped out. I actually rode on the back of one of the air
ride semi's with a periscope. The vibration and pounding was awesome. We
started transporting the scopes by water (barge) and the frequency of problems
went down drastically. Our Kitfox's are very fragile similar to those scopes
(IMHO)
Don Smythe
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Heater Install |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
Unless you have a thermostat, the water heater will not put out much heat
when the weather gets cold.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Wells" <georgewells@adelphia.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Heater Install
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "George Wells"
<georgewells@adelphia.net>
>
> I presently have a KF 4 without a heater. I am looking for info on
> installing either a Heat Muff type or a unit using radiator water. Any
info
> on both the pros and cons will be appreciated. My KF has a Rotex 912 80 HP
> engine.
> Thanks, Sorry if this is a double post !!
> George
>
>
Message 24
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: KITFOXPILOT@att.net
Just thought I woulld let the list know, that my Kitfox is flying great! two days
in row and no problems. Today I was able to practice my first landings with
my tail wheel instructor I did great. Also played with the flapperons and did
some mid field take offs. I will say this, the 912S pulls my Model IV 1200
like a rocket!! this was the best toy I ever payed for.
Ray
<!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
<style type='text/css'>
p {
margin: 0px;
}
</style>
<!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset -->
Just thought I woulld let the list know, that my Kitfox is flying great! two days
in row and no problems. Today I was able to practice my first landings with
my tail wheel instructor I did great. Also played with the flapperons and did
some mid field take offs. I will say this, the 912S pulls my Model IV 1200 like
a rocket!! this was the best toy I ever payed for.
Ray
<!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->
Message 25
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Ray,
Congratulations! I bet you are having fun now. Also congratulations that you
have the wisdom to get tailwheel training too. Post a photo of 28H on the
Sportflight web site when you get a free moment.
Don Pearsall
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