Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:29 AM - Re: Re: Wing strut fairing tests (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
2. 03:58 AM - Re: Trailering (kitfoxjunky)
3. 06:53 AM - Re: Cockpit Noise Reduction (Lowell Fitt)
4. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: VG flight testing (Lowell Fitt)
5. 07:39 AM - SV: Cockpit Noise Reduction (Michel Verheughe)
6. 07:42 AM - Re: Re: VG's, flight testing - to be continued (John Larsen)
7. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: VG flight testing (RICHARD HUTSON)
8. 10:14 AM - Installing flaperon horn (Lynn Matteson)
9. 12:29 PM - Re: Re: Wing strut fairing tests (kurt schrader)
10. 02:58 PM - Radiator scoop (Fox5flyer)
11. 03:42 PM - Re: Re: VG flight testing (kurt schrader)
12. 04:04 PM - Re: Radiator scoop (kurt schrader)
13. 04:52 PM - Re: Re: Rad scoops and builder's dreams (kurt schrader)
14. 06:23 PM - Re: Re: Rad scoops and builder's dreams (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
15. 06:31 PM - Re: Re: Wing strut fairing tests (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
16. 07:03 PM - Re: Re: Rad scoops and builder's dreams (Larry Huntley)
17. 11:04 PM - Re: Re: Wing strut fairing tests (kurt schrader)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Wing strut fairing tests |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/7/04 11:44:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes:
<< Don,
My scoop is still in the "it works but isn't pretty
yet" stage too. I need to install a variable outlet,
then spruce it up a bunch.
Kurt S. >>
Kurt,
I've missed some of your post on your scoop. Did you extend the scoop
all the way back to also cover the gear? I have mine extended back to the aft
cross tube where the wing struts attach to the fuselage. Left the rear end
open 3" all the way across for exit air.
I'm working on the cockpit variable shutter now. Can't make up my mind
on exactly how I want it to operate. I will place it on the aft side of the
radiator like John Kings pictures.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 2
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06:58:27 AM,
Serialize complete at 10/08/2004 06:58:27 AM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kitfoxjunky <kitfoxjunky@decisionlabs.com>
Good Point on the tail spring. I had to put the tail on the utility
trailer BEFORE I folded the wings, otherwise there was too much weight
back there to allow one person to pick it up. Maybe that utility trailer
idea is not so hot, although I cannot see any difference between using
that and having the airplane sit completely on a larger trailer in a three
point configuration. In both cases there is more weight on the tail
spring, and it will still bounce up and down with bumps in the road. Over
the winter I am going to build one of the trailer tow bars that attaches
to the rear of the fuse. That takes all the load off the tail spring and
distributes it better over the rear of the fuse.
How did you configure those gas struts? Where did they attach to?
Gary Walsh
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
I'd recommend watching that tailspring really close.
Personally, I use gas struts to take the weight off
the tailspring as well as securing the tail via the
towbar crosstube independent of the tailspring. It
would really suck to have the tail come loose while
towing -- nearly as much as to have a wing come loose.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit Noise Reduction |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Maybe not much of a suggestion for those already flying, but when building,
I was worried about exhaust noise through the floorboards and put a layer of
1/2" Neoprene foam between the fabric and the floorboards. I got the stuff
from ACS and have used bits and pieces for lots of projects since - anti
chafe etc.
Can't say if it helps a lot as I have very few minutes in other's Kitfoxes.
Incidentally, years ago I went to an EAA meeting that had an acoustics
engineer who talked about noise attenuation. In his words, mass is the only
thing that really educes noise. In other words a lead firewall would work
fine for noise reduction. Light weight materials like we use just vibrate
at the frequency of the noise source and transmits the noise through the
barrier. Light weight coverings like the blankets we use do the same,
however their function is to reduce reflected noise as carped will do in a
large room, thus reducing total noise by that factor. He did comment that
the best light weight covering would be a viscous foam layered with a thin
metal backing. ACS had such a material and that was what I used for the
firewall. The viscous foam would be something like the newer foams used for
seat cushions that mold to contours of the seated. It doesn't just sit
there and vibrate, but will deform a bit absorbing some of the energy.
The Neoprene mentioned above has some of the qualities of a viscous foam as
it will deform a bit and slowly return to its original shape.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Arseneault" <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cockpit Noise Reduction
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault"
<northernultralights@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Gil,
>
>
> Check and see how much of a gap you have between the firewall and the
cowling. You might have a big gap there even with the firewall blanket and
by sealing this, you will eliminate alot of the cabin noise. A SPO-22N isthe
part # of aSigtronics portable intercom that is highly recommended for
ultralights that have alot ofcabin noise. I had the Avcomm and the standard
Sigtronics intercoms and had the same problems that you describe. Problem
was solvedonce I installed thehigh noise Sitronics. I am using a Icom-A5
handheld radio.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Marc Arseneault
> Ontario Canada
>
> From: Gill Levesque canpilot03@yahoo.ca Reply-To:
kitfox-list@matronics.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Re:
Kitfox-List: Cockpit Noise Reduction Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:01:23 -0400
(EDT) -- Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque canpilot03@yahoo.ca
Marc, I have the stock , firewall cover! fibre glass insulation covered in
plastic(?) What is a n SP-22N?? What radio are you using? I have a panel
mounted(ex-handheld) Delcom 960!! Gil Levesque C-IGVL David Savener
david_savener@msn.com wrote: -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "David
Savener" I've never heard of "bulb seal around the firewall". Could you
explain what it is? I am uncomfortable with my airplane's seal(almost
nonexistent) that should slow an engine fire's invasion of the cabin!! Dave
Savener ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Arseneault To:
kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Cockpit Noise Reduction -- Kitfox-List message
posted by: "Marc Arseneault" Hi Gil, I had the same problem and purchased a
Sigtronics High noise P/N SP-22N and it solved my problems. It would also
help to have the intercom connected direct instead of running on the
batteries. Have you got a bulb seal around the firewall? Besides this, that
is about all you can do unless you install a firewall blanket but make sure
it is fire resistant. Best Regards, Marc Arseneault Ontario Canada From:
Gill Levesque canpilot03@yahoo.ca Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com To:
kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Cockpit Noise Reduction
Gill Levesque canpilot03@yahoo.ca Hi All, I now have 68hrs. in C-IGVL ,a
model 4 -1050 with 582! I love it!!!!! (Someday Iwill post pics!!!) However
the cockpit noise level is so high that my intercom is on all the time(vox)
and transmits e
> Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium:
Join now and get the first two months FREE*
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: VG flight testing |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
An opinion here. The numbers Kurt has reported mean much more to me than if
he had used GPS ground speed. GPS Ground speed means a lot when flying
cross country, but not too much when approaching a stall because as was
mentioned in an earlier post wind velocity is an absolute unknown given
gusting etc. Consider using ground speed from the GPS on a landing
pproach - good luck.
The pitot tube angle during all the manouvers Kurt did was a constant. The
actual speeds might not be very accurate, but the relative speeds have a ton
of meaning because all the factors determining the speeds were constant
assuming the altitudes and temperatures during the tests were similar. And
I assume they were as Kurt seemed quite thorough in his testing and
documentation.
Regarding the last test showing a stall speed of 31 mph. Read again. That
was a full power full flap stall - not really related to the power off stall
in terms of numbers. Definitely would be related if the 41 mph stall had
been a full power full flap stall. I hope the manufacturer of these vortex
generators is not using power off vs. power on data to market his product.
Stall characteristics in my airplane are very different power off and full
power. Power off they are very gentle and predictable and I have no concern
demonstrating them to a novice passenger. I would only demonstrate a full
power stall to a guy that liked the extreme rides in an amusement park -
lots of forces involved in a full power stall.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Land Shorter" <landshorter2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: VG flight testing
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Land Shorter <landshorter2@yahoo.com>
>
> This is a very good point. Without using a gimbal mounted pitot it is
extremely difficult to get accurate measurements. It is also extremely
difficult to tell where the "stall" occurs if you are only getting a "mush".
Kurt's last test showed a true stall and also a very low stall speed (34 mph
instead of the non-vg stall with flaps of 41mph). To me this sounds like a
really good result. Furthermore without knowing if that particular stall
was caused by the loss of the many VGs and since no further testing was
apparently done after the VGs came off it would be difficult to know what
the new pattern truly did to his stall.
>
> Also, the fact that one wing was dropping also makes it very difficult to
see a true stall speed. In my opinion, and this is irrelevant to whether or
not VGs are on or not, that would be the first thing that I would address.
Having a properly trimmed aircraft makes all the difference. A good friend
of mine has a Kitfox 7 and was having trim problems and when the trim was
carefully adjusted using a very accurate laser level he had a huge
improvement in his performance. It really does make a difference. With
Kurt's great improvements with drag reduction (super job and thanks for
keeping us all motivated to get "free speed" out of our ships Kurt) this
would be a natural.
>
> If Kurt decides to do further testing I would be happy to work with him
further to refine his results. I also think that by placing VGs on the
underside of his horizontal so that he has the tail authority to fully stall
the aircraft he will see very positive results.
>
> It should be noted that the pattern that Kurt was seeing the lowest stall
was one that I recommended to him. Even though Kurt didn't purchase my VGs,
I really wanted to see him succeed since I have had so many other very
satisfied customers and since I don't sell VGs for the money (I have a day
job as an engineer with Quest Aircraft) but more for the fun of it and the
chance to meet people that have the same love for aviation and STOL aircraft
that I do. It was unfortunate though that my competitor didn't give Kurt
the customer support (or the complete instructions) that I offer.
>
> Speaking of Quest if you haven't heard about us go to
www.questaircraft.com and check out the Kodiak. Now that our web page is up
I can finally mention our company :) We're busting serious tail to get her
in the air and she's going to be one *sweet* flying STOL work horse.
>
> So in a nutshell the neat thing about VGs is what they do for YOU. It's
all about whether YOU like them. That's the big reason I offer a 100% money
back guarantee :)
>
> Keep em flying!
>
> Joa
> www.landshorter.com
>
>
> Stu Bryant <s.j.bryant@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Stu Bryant"
>
>
> Kurt,
>
> Did you happen to use a GPS to verify indicated airspeed while you were at
> those higher angles of attack during the stall testing? I'm curious about
AI
> error- could you have been getting more benefit than was indicated?
(Granted
> winds must be accurately known)
>
> Stu Bryant
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Cockpit Noise Reduction |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Lowell Fitt [lcfitt@inreach.com]
> He did comment that
> the best light weight covering would be a viscous foam layered with a thin
> metal backing.
This is indeed what is used for sound proofing yacht engine rooms, Lowell. A foam
layer covered with something that looks like aluminium foil. The latter is
to be facing the engine. This material is to be found in all yachting ship chandlers
in Norway.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RE: VG's, flight testing - to be continued |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John Larsen <jopatco@mindspring.com>
I have been monitoring the subject of VG's for some time and am of the
conclusion that they don't make much difference at the speeds we fly..
They give a higher angle of attack and IAS is lower at stall, because
the pitot tube is at a higher angle of attack, giving bogus readings.
GPS shows stall speed to be about the same. To signifigantly reduce
stall speed, you need to decrease wing loading with less weight or add
squaare ft. to get a bigger wing ala. ultralight. Bigger wing = more
lift = more drag. To me, cleaning up the plane to eliminate drag will
increase speed with no penalties.
Good work! Press on.
kurt schrader wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>Rick,
>
>You are welcome.
>
>I don't want to turn others off from VG's, but I am
>disappointed with my results. Some patterns actually
>increased the stall speed a little and some cost 5
>knots in cruise.
>
>If you have a poor stall on your plane now, these will
>make it much more livable, even if you do not get a
>speed reduction.
>
>But as is for me, they were of little advantage. I
>want a stall speed reduction enough to test again
>later though, just on the chance that such light and
>cheap changes will work. I tested in a small range of
>positions. I might expand that range later.
>
>I also have a VG folder. :-)
>
>Do not archive
>
>Kurt S.
>
>--- Rick <turboflyer@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Thanks Kurt, I think you saved us all a lot of time
>>and money. Will file this in my VGs folder.
>>
>>Rick
>>
>>
>
>
>
>_______________________________
>Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
>http://vote.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RE: VG flight testing |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "RICHARD HUTSON" <rhutson@midsouth.rr.com>
Now that the Quest web site is up, when are you going to have photo's of the
plane. Not to be a smart ass, but it looks like a Cessna Caravan in the
drawing. Web site looks good so far. I actually went to it from AvWeb.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Land Shorter" <landshorter2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: VG flight testing
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Land Shorter <landshorter2@yahoo.com>
>
Post
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Installing flaperon horn |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I was just looking at a later assembly manual (Aug. '03) for the
Classic IV, and it tells you to "apply structural adhesive to the end
rib flanges...", etc., when installing the flap horn, while the
original doesn't mention the application of the structural adhesive
during this step....what did you folks do? Thinking about it now (after
I had installed mine without any adhesive), I realize that there might
be a "dissimilar metals in contact" problem here...whaddaya think?
Lynn
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Wing strut fairing tests |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
We are on the same frequency Don, but your scoop
should look better than mine since your radiator is
smaller and you need to exhaust less heat.
I also carried mine back to the rear cross tube and
will blend it in with the new wing strut fairings too.
Mine opens all across the aft end, but I made the
center 40% a large opening fwd to later install a
variable door. Right now I swap one of two doors for
cold or hot ops.
I would like to have my door open inward/upward at the
front to expose more opening and give less drag than
one that opens down and out into the airstream. TBD
Kurt S.
--- AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 10/7/04 11:44:00 PM Pacific
> Daylight Time,
> smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes:
>
> << Don,
>
> My scoop is still in the "it works but isn't pretty
> yet" stage too. I need to install a variable
> outlet,
> then spruce it up a bunch.
>
> Kurt S. >>
>
> Kurt,
> I've missed some of your post on your scoop.
> Did you extend the scoop all the way back to also
> cover the gear? I have mine extended back to the
> aft cross tube where the wing struts attach to the
> fuselage. Left the rear end
> open 3" all the way across for exit air.
> I'm working on the cockpit variable shutter now.
> Can't make up my mind
> on exactly how I want it to operate. I will place
> it on the aft side of the radiator like John Kings
> pictures.
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
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Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
I built a scoop for my S5 with NSI package and it was well worth the effort
for the long run. Faster, better cooling, and controllable. There's some
sportflight pics below that shows my version of a cowl flap. I chose to
place it in the rear for both simplicity and safety. If the cable breaks it
just swings wide open. Works fine and in normal cruise it's in the
streamlined position resulting in very little drag. Using the bowden cable
I just let it find the neutral point by the feel of the pressure and that's
were I cruise unless temps require an adjustment. Generally the streamline
position keeps it right about 185f. The pic shows it wide open in max
cooling position, but I rarely have it there except for very hot days and
only for taxi and takeoff.
Not the prettiest glass work, but it does the job.
Darrel
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1028548602
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1040683741
We are on the same frequency Don, but your scoop
should look better than mine since your radiator is
smaller and you need to exhaust less heat.
I also carried mine back to the rear cross tube and
will blend it in with the new wing strut fairings too.
Mine opens all across the aft end, but I made the
center 40% a large opening fwd to later install a
variable door. Right now I swap one of two doors for
cold or hot ops.
I would like to have my door open inward/upward at the
front to expose more opening and give less drag than
one that opens down and out into the airstream. TBD
Kurt S.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RE: VG flight testing |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Thanks Lowell,
I am trying to give accurate numbers for you all and
keep apples - apples. I had my ASI, altimeter and
encoder tested to IFR specs. I use a helo ASI that
starts at 20 kts and has 60 kts already over at the 3
o'clock position. It is easy to read the low end
accurately. I double checked with the gps and got a
2-3 knot accuracy across the board, then corrected to
TAS, narrowing the "error" further.
Since then I suspected that the addition of my scoop
has affected the static port. But all raw gps checks
show I am reading lower, not higher. Again TAS
corrections greatly reduce the "error".
I did all the VG tests under the same aircraft
condition and within +/-10 lbs GW. All tests were at
3000' PA and the OAT was taken for TAS corrections.
The biggest change between tests was OAT. The numbers
I gave did not include TAS corrections, which mostly
showed I was flying faster than indicated.
The plane flies on corrected indicated or dynamic
speed. TAS and grnd speed should not apply to these
tests.
The biggest point is that the stall speed did not vary
over 2 knots on any test for the same flap condition.
That means I always stalled at the same AOA too
because the other conditions were held constant,
except OAT. The pitot tube angle was the same for
each stall for the same flap setting. Whatever ASI
error applied to "no VG's" applied to any VG pattern I
used. If I had gotten a higher AOA, I would have also
seen a lower stall speed. Only TAS would be different
due to OAT and TAS is unimportant to these results.
All stalls were actual stalls except one that wouldn't
allow me to stall due to elevator limits at full
flaps. The other stalls with that same VG position
were no different than all the rest for the same flap
setting, so I suspect there was no gain here either.
The final test was power on to check my ASI. That
made the only major difference and it did so before I
tried VG's too. I estimate I used up to 40% power on
it. I am not going to try full power stalls due to
the violence of them and the risk to my plane. I
already have one gyroscopic spinner to cowl scrub and
I don't want to risk any negative g condition that
would take oil pressure off my engine at high power,
ie, it could really spin over the top rapidly.
Aircraft trim: While my plane flies hands off easily
on every flight, I suspect some trim or construction
difference is involved in the left wing stalling
first. (Or my fat butt) I agree I need to check this
out. Yesterday I did my "parachute required" tests.
No VG's were installed, so I got the unbuffered stalls
and spins. Well, spin. It only spins left. It
bucked and buffeted with right rudder, but wouldn't go
over to that side. Each time it got into the stall it
rolled back left and self recovered. It just gave me
a mild wing rock. There must be a difference in
washout or something. There is no question that it
spins left!
I'll try to recheck rigging on the next annual.
Kurt S.
--- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@inreach.com> wrote:
> An opinion here. The numbers Kurt has reported mean
> much more to me than if he had used GPS ground
speed.
> ..........
>
> The pitot tube angle during all the manouvers Kurt
> did was a constant. The actual speeds might not be
> very accurate, but the relative speeds have a ton
> of meaning because all the factors determining the
> speeds were constant assuming the altitudes and
> temperatures during the tests were similar. And
> I assume they were as Kurt seemed quite thorough in
> his testing and documentation.
>
> Regarding the last test showing a stall speed of 31
> mph. Read again. That was a full power full flap
> stall - not really related to the power off stall
> in terms of numbers. Definitely would be related if
> the 41 mph stall had been a full power full
> flap stall. I hope the manufacturer of these vortex
> generators is not using power off vs. power on data
> to market his product.
>
> Stall characteristics in my airplane are very
> different power off and full power. Power off they
> are very gentle and predictable and I have no
concern
> demonstrating them to a novice passenger. I would
> only demonstrate a full power stall to a guy that
> liked the extreme rides in an amusement park -
> lots of forces involved in a full power stall.
>
> Lowell
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Radiator scoop |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Fine job Darrel,
This is one place where I have too much cooling. I
made my radiator scoop enternace too big. It is 2" x
20" expanding inside to 6" x 20" at the rad. I am
seeing 140 - 180 temps now. But my oil cooler uses
the same scoop exit behind the rad, so I need to
adjust coolant airflow without reducing the oil cooler
flow as much. Still I have that pretty good now too.
Running 190 - 220 and getting lower with OAT.
I have a scoop door behind the oil cooler as my
cockpit heater. When it gets that cold, I'll see how
it effects my oil temp and me.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
> I built a scoop for my S5 with NSI package and it
> was well worth the effort
> for the long run. Faster, better cooling, and
> controllable. There's some
> sportflight pics below that shows my version of a
> cowl flap.
> ...... it does the job.
> Darrel
>
>
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1028548602
> http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1040683741
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Rad scoops and builder's dreams |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hey Don,
Tell us the truth about John. Does he really put his
planes together with jewler's screwdrivers and
tweezers, or is that just a myth? You can't go wrong
following him.
I do want to go to Alaska, I do...
I didn't say it, but I had a fish on the line to sell
Melnik's plane. He's an A&P and looking. Sorry it
took a hit from the storms. I should have bought it
and resold it here. He's going for a Champ now. No
comparison IMHO.
There are a few of you who make planes that I couldn't
build when my eyes were good. If I were an A&P, I'd
buy one "used" myself when they come up.
Not that my plane is bad. She is "my tractor, my
workhorse", etc. Built tough and my way. But there
are show piece KF's out there...
Do not archive
Kurt S.
--- AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
> Can't make up my mind on exactly how I want it
> to operate. I will place it on the aft side of the
> radiator like John Kings pictures.
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
__________________________________
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Rad scoops and builder's dreams |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
Do Not Archive
<<
There are a few of you who make planes that I couldn't
build when my eyes were good. If I were an A&P, I'd
buy one "used" myself when they come up.
Not that my plane is bad. She is "my tractor, my
workhorse", etc. Built tough and my way. But there
are show piece KF's out there...
Kurt S. >>
kurt,
Yes, John King puts his planes together with tweezers. He's a real
stickler for making things good and at the same time, look good. Now, to clear
up
an apparent myth....My plane is also my tractor very similar to my Ford 8N
sitting in the back yard. I have no objection to cutting off a part of my plane
and rebuilding it.... As a result, I do not have a show plane...I only strive
to make it better, safer and faster, not prettier.
After I first saw John's first plane, I only asked that I might park next
to his and not have people laugh. That is about what I have.
Now that that's all cleared up, does anyone have a suggestion on how to
fix the #1 spark plug on my 8N that blew out?
Don Smythe
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Wing strut fairing tests |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
<<
I would like to have my door open inward/upward at the
front to expose more opening and give less drag than
one that opens down and out into the airstream. TBD
Kurt S.
>>
Kurt,
I can't quite picture the description of your opening??? I decided to go
on the aft side for safety sake. The exact opening, I'm still working on.
My thought on an aft opening vane is, 1. A bird strike won't damage the
opening mech? 2. Ice can't fowl the mech (it's on the warm side). 3. Might
be
less wing resistance for opening/closing???? 4. It sounded practical?? 5. I
tossed a coin and aft won.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Rad scoops and builder's dreams |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
Put a Helicoil in it Don. Larry Huntley,Kitfox 4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Rad scoops and builder's dreams
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> Do Not Archive
> <<
> There are a few of you who make planes that I couldn't
> build when my eyes were good. If I were an A&P, I'd
> buy one "used" myself when they come up.
>
> Not that my plane is bad. She is "my tractor, my
> workhorse", etc. Built tough and my way. But there
> are show piece KF's out there...
>
>
> Kurt S. >>
>
> kurt,
> Yes, John King puts his planes together with tweezers. He's a real
> stickler for making things good and at the same time, look good. Now, to
clear up
> an apparent myth....My plane is also my tractor very similar to my Ford 8N
> sitting in the back yard. I have no objection to cutting off a part of my
plane
> and rebuilding it.... As a result, I do not have a show plane...I only
strive
> to make it better, safer and faster, not prettier.
> After I first saw John's first plane, I only asked that I might park
next
> to his and not have people laugh. That is about what I have.
> Now that that's all cleared up, does anyone have a suggestion on how
to
> fix the #1 spark plug on my 8N that blew out?
>
> Don Smythe
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Wing strut fairing tests |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Oh, I'll try to explain better Don.
My engine requires a lot more heated air dumped than
yours. I need more opening aft of the radiator. So
aft of the radiator, I could have the center floor of
the scoop hinge back edge downward and make a yawning
aft hole to draw air out, aka P-51 style. That is the
kind of temporary fixed door I have now. It cost me a
couple of knots on days over 70. Below 70, I take it
off. Not good for fine temp control or changing
OAT's.
Instead I would like to hinge the floor center section
aft of the radiator at the back of the scoop. Then
have that floor section pull up at the front (but
still behind the radiator) pulling up into the scoop
like a NACA exhaust. This opens the back of the
radiator to a larger exit hole. The floor/door would
still act as an air guide to keep flow straighter, but
it wouldn't stick out into the airstream.
In your case, you leave the scoop aft hole open, then
block radiator flow when it is cold out. In my case,
I normally have the back side open and open it up even
more to get more outflow when hot. I don't actually
block the radiator when cold at all. Not yet anyway.
I just open more area behind it when hot. I need
another 50 sq in of outflow it seems for hot days.
When I pull the aft floor up by the leading edge, it
immediately allows some radiator air to escape out
below it from the thick section of the scoop. that
air would follow the floor/door back, but on the
bottom side. With the thing opened all the way, it
would parallel the aircraft floor giving the same
opening above it fore and aft in the scoop. But the
area below it is now open too.
If I need a different flow pattern, ie even more air,
I could hinge the door in the middle or such and
teater it back side out and front side in. That would
keep at least part of the door internal for less drag.
The other side of the scoop is like you said. Closing
off some of the intake air could work, but I still
would have that exhaust chute sticking out of my
scoop.
Does that make any sense? I think an extra NACA
opening in the scoop behind the radiator is the best
image I can offer.
Kurt S.
--- AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> <<
> I would like to have my door open inward/upward at
> the
> front to expose more opening and give less drag
> than
> one that opens down and ot into the airstream.
> TBD
>
> Kurt S.
> >>
>
> Kurt,
> I can't quite picture the description of your
> opening??? I decided to go
> on the aft side for safety sake. The exact opening,
> I'm still working on.
> My thought on an aft opening vane is, 1. A bird
> strike won't damage the
> opening mech? 2. Ice can't fowl the mech (it's on
> the warm side). 3. Might be
> less wing resistance for opening/closing???? 4. It
> sounded practical?? 5. I
> tossed a coin and aft won.
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
__________________________________
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