Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:49 AM - SV: What are the requirments for a pilots lic. in Europe? (Michel Verheughe)
2. 01:56 AM - Re: Skyfox? (Graeme Toft)
3. 02:44 AM - Re: Paint - Need to clear coat (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
4. 03:00 AM - Re: Rotax 582 ers!! (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
5. 04:53 AM - Re: Rotax 582 ers!! (Chuck & Vicki Tippett)
6. 05:14 AM - Re: Rotax 582 ers!! (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
7. 06:05 AM - 582 fuel leak (Gill Levesque)
8. 02:07 PM - Re: Skyfox? (Michel Verheughe)
9. 02:59 PM - Re: 582 fuel leak (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
10. 03:13 PM - Need to sell stuff (off topic) (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
11. 03:16 PM - Re: Skyfox? (Jose M. Toro)
12. 06:03 PM - Re: Oil Pressure Mistery on 912 UL (neflyer48)
13. 06:10 PM - Re: SV: Paint (& pollution) (kurt schrader)
14. 06:15 PM - Re: 582 fuel leak (Gill Levesque)
15. 06:19 PM - Re: Need to sell stuff (off topic) (Gill Levesque)
16. 06:28 PM - Re: Oil Pressure Mistery on 912 UL (Jimmie Blackwell)
17. 06:50 PM - Re: Barrel Rolls (kurt schrader)
18. 07:08 PM - Re: Need to sell stuff (off topic) (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
19. 07:09 PM - Re: Barrel Rolls (Rick)
20. 07:28 PM - Re: Barrel Rolls (kurt schrader)
21. 07:46 PM - Re: Why use VG's, was:VG's and the testing process (kurt schrader)
22. 08:09 PM - Hello to all my friends (EMAproducts@aol.com)
23. 08:09 PM - Re: Barrel Rolls (Lowell Fitt)
24. 08:13 PM - Re: VG's and the testing process (kurt schrader)
25. 08:13 PM - Re: Oil Pressure Mistery on 912 UL (John King)
26. 08:17 PM - Re: Barrel Rolls (kurt schrader)
27. 08:27 PM - Re: Rotax 582 ers!! (John King)
28. 08:32 PM - Re: Re: Fuel stop in Illinois (kurt schrader)
29. 09:35 PM - Re: Barrel Rolls (William J. Applegate)
30. 11:34 PM - Re: Barrel Rolls (Don Pearsall)
Message 1
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| Subject: | What are the requirments for a pilots lic. in Europe? |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Jay Fabian [experimental208nd@comcast.net]
> Is that the proper term, and what might be the requirments for a private,
> or do they have a sport pilot equivalant? It would be for in Greece.
The problem with Europe, Jay, is that we have many different countries with many
different rules. I don't know what is the rule in Greece. I know that we work
now for a common European rule but it is still in the future.
Right now, anything that is not Private Pilot (PPL-A) license is called Microlight,
Ultralight or ULM (ultra-leger motorise).
Next summer, I intend to fly my Kitfox to Belgium and maybe France. To do that,
I'll need to make sure I won't be stopped in Sweden, Danmark, Germany and The
Netherlands. I already know that Danmark will ask me to have a higher insurance
coverage. Sweden and Germany should be ok. The Netherlands may ask me to avoid
certain airspace and/or to limit my landings to certain places. Belgium is
hell to fly over because all the airspace is controlled. France and Spain are
known to be easy for microlights.
The definition of the microlight license differ from country to country. Here,
in Norway, it is about 70% of the theory of the Private Pilot. Meteorology is
the same, but navigation doesn't include radio beacons. Medicine doesn't include
high altitude since we are limited to 10,000 ft.
The Norwegian definition of a microlight is: MTOW under 450 kg, wing load under
20 kg/m2, stall speed under 63 km/h, and max. two seats. That makes the French
Cri-cri (the world smallest aircraft, I think) not a Microlight because the
wings are too short.
I don't know the rules in Greece but I can try to find out, if you want, Jay. But
is your intention to fly there your own plane, or rent one? What is your certificate?
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 2
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Graeme Toft" <msm@byterocky.net>
Skyfox aircraft are no longer made in Australia and haven't been for some
time. There is a company in Gympie that looks after parts and still
distributes to those requiring them but apparently they are getting pretty
scare since Skyfox folded up. The bloke in Gympie worked at the skyfox
factory. If you let me know what it is that your chasing, I will make a call
for you to check price etc. This is going to be a problem in Australia in a
few years because there are a lot flying around that will be looking for
parts in the future.
Regards
Graeme
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skyfox?
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
>
> Michel:
>
> You can order a Skyfox cowling through Suncoast (www.suncoastjabiru.com),
> the Jabiru dealer in Florida. I intend to order in the next few days a
> complete package including engine (2200), engine mount for my Kitfox II,
> Skyfox cowling, gauges, and everything else you need to do this
> conversion. The Skyfox cowling is supposed to fit Kitfox II and III
> without modifications. It does require modification for the Model IV.
>
> Jose
>
> Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
>
> Guys,
> If you want to do business on the internet, you have to answer customers.
> I
> never got an answer from Aircraft Spruce regarding their tailwheel and
> now, I
> don't get an answer from Skyfox regarding their cowling.
>
> I would then take my business elsewhere but the market is not that big. My
> question is then: Before I decide for something else, do any of you know
> how I
> can get Australian Skyfox to answer if they have a cowling I can use on my
> model 3, when I install the Jabiru?
>
> Any advise would be welcome. Thanks in advance.
>
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Jose M. Toro, P.E.
> Kitfox II/582
> "A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Paint - Need to clear coat |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/12/04 5:28:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Ceashman@aol.com writes:
<< So if you compound the Poly Tone say after the first 3 years of it's life.
Then you will be compounding it much more frequently, say 4 months if left
outside.
That is why aluminum aircraft are left outside and aluminum aircraft do not
have Poly Tone applied on them.
Eric Ashman. Classic IV Atlanta
>>
Do Not Archive
Eric,
Thanks, I learn something new everyday. Never suspected I was possibly
doing more harm than good. The sanding does do a good job for making the paint
slick as a whistle.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 ers!! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/12/04 6:22:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
canpilot03@yahoo.ca writes:
<< Hey all 582ers.
Had A fuel leak today which I noticed after a short flight!! I saw the
fuel was running down my exhaust pipe!!! YIKES!!! I removed my cowling! and found
one of my carbs leaking!!Looking at the carbs and primer lines, as well as
the fuel lines I thought there needs to be some kind of tray or "catch basin"
here to keep fuel leaks OFF the hot exhaust!!! Any Ideas??? Gotta fix this!!!
Gil Levesque >>
Gil,
I agree with the need for a catch basin or diverter plate to keep the gas
off the muffler. I've had a couple occasions where gas was running on the
muffler. Makes you shiver at each drop.
As far as the leak goes, you didn't say "where" the fuel was leaking out
of the carb. I assume it was from the overflow vent line? I've always had
one touchy carb where the bowl would not seat properly and cause the floats to
act up and give me a leak out the vent line. Had the same thing happen on one
of Glenn Horns carbs. I've never been able to confirm exactly what is not
seating properly. You can almost "feel" when the seat is correct or not. Very
touchy.
I know we can't relocate the little carb vent lines (carb pressure) but
it is probably the holes in those lines that is the source of the fuel leak.
How about something that would catch a leak from those holes and divert it
back to the firewall. However, that something can't be allowed to change the
pressure at the carb vent??
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 ers!! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Chuck & Vicki Tippett" <planecrazy@erols.com>
I have the good fortune of owning John Kings wonderful Model IV where he
came up with a superb way to redirecting this excess fuel from overflowing
carbs . His daughter is a Doctor and he was able to come up with the idea
and it works fine . He has taken a large sirenge and of course just uses the
bottom part the part for the fluid . Now this is a larger style sirenge
about3 inches long with about 1/2 diameter . He has mounted this " catch
just where the sacred over flow lines hang down on each carb so they are
inside this sirenge about an inch and then he has another fuel line that
goes from the bottom of this sirenge to along the firewall to where it now
exits just below the cowling . Doing it this way does not affect any
pressures in the carbs what so ever .I'll be happy to take a picture for
anyone and I'll also talk with John King to see if maybe he has not already
done so . My model IV is a 912 but I also have a Model II with a 582 on
floats and was able to install these below my carbs on this one as well .
Chuck Tippett
-------Original Message-------
From: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 ers!!
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/12/04 6:22:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
canpilot03@yahoo.ca writes:
<< Hey all 582ers.
Had A fuel leak today which I noticed after a short flight!! I saw the
fuel was running down my exhaust pipe!!! YIKES!!! I removed my cowling! and
found
one of my carbs leaking!!Looking at the carbs and primer lines, as well as
the fuel lines I thought there needs to be some kind of tray or "catch basin
here to keep fuel leaks OFF the hot exhaust!!! Any Ideas??? Gotta fix
this!!!
Gil Levesque >>
Gil,
I agree with the need for a catch basin or diverter plate to keep the
gas
off the muffler. I've had a couple occasions where gas was running on the
muffler. Makes you shiver at each drop.
As far as the leak goes, you didn't say "where" the fuel was leaking out
of the carb. I assume it was from the overflow vent line? I've always had
one touchy carb where the bowl would not seat properly and cause the floats
to
act up and give me a leak out the vent line. Had the same thing happen on
one
of Glenn Horns carbs. I've never been able to confirm exactly what is not
seating properly. You can almost "feel" when the seat is correct or not.
Very
touchy.
I know we can't relocate the little carb vent lines (carb pressure) but
it is probably the holes in those lines that is the source of the fuel leak.
How about something that would catch a leak from those holes and divert it
back to the firewall. However, that something can't be allowed to change
the
pressure at the carb vent??
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 ers!! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/13/04 4:54:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
planecrazy@erols.com writes:
<< about3 inches long with about 1/2 diameter . He has mounted this " catch
just where the sacred over flow lines hang down on each carb so they are
inside this sirenge about an inch and then he has another fuel line that >>
Chuck,
Hard to picture, need a picture. I don't recall John ever talking about
this.
Thanks,
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Do Not Archive
Message 7
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca>
Hi! all 582ers.
I should have mentioned in my post yesterday, that the carb was leaking from the
hole at the bottom of the inlet(air filter) end!! Not from the VENT lines!!!
I assume this is a float bowl overflow?? The fuel had gathered in the lower(rear)
end of the filter(dual) and dripped on my exhaust pipe!!! Anyone know
how to get the needle valve out of the carb body to clean??? The pin holdinf the
float arm in looks "pressed"in !!
Thanx
Gil Levesque
C-IGVL
Still alive and flyin!!!!
Gil
---------------------------------
Message 8
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Graeme Toft wrote:
> Skyfox aircraft are no longer made in Australia and haven't been for some
> time.
Thanks Graeme but I have now talked to Dave, from Suncoast in Florida, and he
tells me it is Jabiru itself that sells the Skyfox cowl. He can get it for me
but so can my Norwegian Jabiru agent.
Asking him, I get the answer that yes, but it is not certain it will fit and
that a moulding of the Jabiru aircraft front bowl would be safer.
Then, on the Jabiru list, I am told to talk to someone who has a Jabiru with
Skyfox cowl on a Kitfox ... but it is a Kitfox Classic and pardon me if I
misunderstood something but I think the model 3 and Classic have different cowl
(and angle of windshield).
Soooo, I don't know. I'll do something but I don't know yet what it will be.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 582 fuel leak |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/13/04 6:06:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
canpilot03@yahoo.ca writes:
<<
I should have mentioned in my post yesterday, that the carb was leaking
from the hole at the bottom of the inlet(air filter) end!! Not from the VENT
lines!!! I assume this is a float bowl overflow?? >>
I would have to look again but I believe the float bowl vent is the small
tubes. The only time I got fuel form where you mention was due to over priming
the engine. The primer ports will cause fuel to drip from the air filters?????
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 10
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| Subject: | Need to sell stuff (off topic) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
Do Not Archive
I recently mentioned Hirth engines for sale and didn't get a whole lot of
feedback. I guess it's because the Hirth engine has a reputation like a dog.
Anyway, I am now prepared (I think) to slash the cost of those engine to
bare bone (have 4 new ones+parts to throw in). Also, I might be able to part
with some instruments and such. I know I have at least a dozen quad EGT/CHT
gauges and maybe more stuff that someone might want. Prices will be good. I have
a new Bing 54 carb.........
Just for grins, I have a 1999 Ford cube van (20' box/3 ton capacity) with
numerous extras for sale. This thing only has 16K original miles and still
smells new on the inside. Price is $10K. (advertises at $15K) and Located in
Virginia (PHF). Please contact off list for anything you might need.
Things are tough at my new Helicopter job. I have been given the job to
dump things or I don't get paid. What the heck.
PLEASE, OFF LIST
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Michel:
Dave Jalanti, davej@mhcable.com, has a Kitfox Model IV with the Jabiru 2200 and the Skyfox cowling. You can see pictures at www.usjabiru.com, under builders photos. This plane was featured recently in three articles in Kitplanes magazine (December, February, and March I guess).
Since the windshield has a greater angle in the model IV, he had to modify the
cowling. I have found in my research that the Skyfox cowling was based on a Kitfox
III, so it does not require modifications to fit that model, nor the model
II.
I don't know anybody using that cowling on a model II or III, but know a person that is using that cowling in an Avid Heavy hauler. You can see pictures at http://www.avidflyeraircraft.com/m_schindler.php. He did not need to modify the cowling for that fuselage.
So, there is a Jabiru list?
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
Graeme Toft wrote:
> Skyfox aircraft are no longer made in Australia and haven't been for some
> time.
Thanks Graeme but I have now talked to Dave, from Suncoast in Florida, and he
tells me it is Jabiru itself that sells the Skyfox cowl. He can get it for me
but so can my Norwegian Jabiru agent.
Asking him, I get the answer that yes, but it is not certain it will fit and
that a moulding of the Jabiru aircraft front bowl would be safer.
Then, on the Jabiru list, I am told to talk to someone who has a Jabiru with
Skyfox cowl on a Kitfox ... but it is a Kitfox Classic and pardon me if I
misunderstood something but I think the model 3 and Classic have different cowl
(and angle of windshield).
Soooo, I don't know. I'll do something but I don't know yet what it will be.
Cheers,
Michel
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure Mistery on 912 UL |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "neflyer48" <neflyer48@cableone.net>
I sent my Westach gauge and sender in to Westburg Mfg.. They replaced the
sending unit and calibrated to the gauge. They didn't charge me anything!
Jerry Kohles
M3 912
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Oil Pressure Mistery on 912 UL
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
<jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
> Recently I experienced an oil pressure problem indication. I am concerned
about the oil pressure indication showing on my Westach quad gauge. At low
rpm, 2000-2500 my oil pressure gauge fluctuates wildly from 60 to 100 psi.
Bringing the rpm up to over 3000 rpm settles the gauge down to between 60
and 80 psi. I am trying to determine whether I have an oil sensor problem.
electrical problem or an actual oil pressure problem.
>
> Talking to Lockwood they seem to think that I have an oil pressures sensor
problem. A new sensor for the Westach is expensive. Talking to another
Rotax repair facility' they suggest also that it is probably an oil pressure
sensor problem, but it may be a rubber oil line that is collapsing.
>
> Wonder if any of you had these problems.
>
> Before I get airborne again I plan to replace all the oil lines just be
safe. Hopefully someone can tell me what size and type hoses to buy to
replace the oil lines.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jimmie
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Paint (& pollution) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Pollution?
> Oops! And with the prevailing wastrels, all that
> acid rain is moving toward Norway, right? :-)
Actually, the air leaving the US off the East Coast is
cleaner than that arriving on the West Coast. Don't
tell our "Green Party" people that though. They don't
want to hear it.
We have a very large country and now have a tree
density as much as 100 times natural. That is why we
have so many forest fires. It is almost certain that
any tree catching fire will spread it, where before
there was space and less undergrowth between them.
The American Indians used to regularily set fires out
West to thin the trees and undergrowth and keep the
place more like a park. Now it is jam packed with
trees.
The air is cleaned as it passes over the US. The
dirtiest air for a country is in China and that comes
to us, but over a long distance. China still uses a
lot of coal and doesn't worry about polution in
burning it. Russia is bad too. If you ever go to one
of their cities, it is not uncommon to get a nose
bleed from breathing the air. Korea too. I got a
bloody nose there myself.
Some of our cities are still bad, but much better than
they were in the 70's. I get to see and compare when
flying in and out of them. You have to look at the
weather including visibility ya' know.
The vast majority of our pollution comes from
automotive use. I could watch the purple clouds form
around the California highways in the am when I was
there. Thick enough you could see it like fog when
you drove into it. It spread to cover L.A. with smog
by 9 am.
But I just saw (again) yesterday how it was much worse
when we used coal and horses. ( I wasn't there,
really!) This story was primarily about typhoid fever
in New York, but polution was the back drop for the
desease studies.
We would like to blame the big guys, but really it is
us individuals who make most of our own problems.
IMHO.
Kurt S.
Do not archive
__________________________________
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 582 fuel leak |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca>
Don,
I called the BING people today and was instructed on how to remove the pin holding
the float needle in!(pressed in tapered pin) and after cleaning the needle
and seat , the problem has been solved!!! I suspect a small sliver of fibreglass
from the tanks! You are right ,the vent is the tube with the holes drilled
in it , but the needle valve ,when stuck will flow from the hole in the air
filter end of the carb!! We still need to devise some kind of tray to catch any
overflow or drips from our fuel system, to avoid fuel on the exhaust!!!
Gil Levesque
C-IGVL
AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/13/04 6:06:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
canpilot03@yahoo.ca writes:
<<
I should have mentioned in my post yesterday, that the carb was leaking
from the hole at the bottom of the inlet(air filter) end!! Not from the VENT
lines!!! I assume this is a float bowl overflow?? >>
I would have to look again but I believe the float bowl vent is the small
tubes. The only time I got fuel form where you mention was due to over priming
the engine. The primer ports will cause fuel to drip from the air filters?????
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Still alive and flyin!!!!
Gil
---------------------------------
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Need to sell stuff (off topic) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca>
Hey ,
What do you mean "Helicopter Job"!!! I thought you retired!!!!
Gil Levesque
C-IGVL
Summers in Canada
Winters at W90
Forest,VA
AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
Do Not Archive
I recently mentioned Hirth engines for sale and didn't get a whole lot of
feedback. I guess it's because the Hirth engine has a reputation like a dog.
Anyway, I am now prepared (I think) to slash the cost of those engine to
bare bone (have 4 new ones+parts to throw in). Also, I might be able to part
with some instruments and such. I know I have at least a dozen quad EGT/CHT
gauges and maybe more stuff that someone might want. Prices will be good. I have
a new Bing 54 carb.........
Just for grins, I have a 1999 Ford cube van (20' box/3 ton capacity) with
numerous extras for sale. This thing only has 16K original miles and still
smells new on the inside. Price is $10K. (advertises at $15K) and Located in
Virginia (PHF). Please contact off list for anything you might need.
Things are tough at my new Helicopter job. I have been given the job to
dump things or I don't get paid. What the heck.
PLEASE, OFF LIST
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Still alive and flyin!!!!
Gil
---------------------------------
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure Mistery on 912 UL |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Thanks Jerry. Westburg told me that since my guage is one of the older ones
(8 years old) the sender unit will cost $175. If the sender is faulty I am
thinking about investing in a EIS unit. I may send it to them anyway in the
hope that I might get a break on the price.
Thanks again
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: "neflyer48" <neflyer48@cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Oil Pressure Mistery on 912 UL
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "neflyer48" <neflyer48@cableone.net>
>
> I sent my Westach gauge and sender in to Westburg Mfg.. They replaced the
> sending unit and calibrated to the gauge. They didn't charge me anything!
>
> Jerry Kohles
> M3 912
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Oil Pressure Mistery on 912 UL
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
> <jablackwell@ev1.net>
> >
> > Recently I experienced an oil pressure problem indication. I am
concerned
> about the oil pressure indication showing on my Westach quad gauge. At
low
> rpm, 2000-2500 my oil pressure gauge fluctuates wildly from 60 to 100
psi.
> Bringing the rpm up to over 3000 rpm settles the gauge down to between 60
> and 80 psi. I am trying to determine whether I have an oil sensor
problem.
> electrical problem or an actual oil pressure problem.
> >
> > Talking to Lockwood they seem to think that I have an oil pressures
sensor
> problem. A new sensor for the Westach is expensive. Talking to another
> Rotax repair facility' they suggest also that it is probably an oil
pressure
> sensor problem, but it may be a rubber oil line that is collapsing.
> >
> > Wonder if any of you had these problems.
> >
> > Before I get airborne again I plan to replace all the oil lines just be
> safe. Hopefully someone can tell me what size and type hoses to buy to
> replace the oil lines.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Jimmie
> >
> >
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Barrel Rolls |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
-- Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
> Thanks for getting back on this topic Kurt. Nobody
> else has ventured forth yet, but I'm hoping some do.
> More below.
> ............
> >
> > I tried standard rolls starting at 100 knots.
> That was more than the Fox needed. I used 10
degrees
> > nose up for the entry, but didn't get close enough
> > to zero G's on entry and went a bit nose low
> > inverted.
>..........
> When you say standard rolls, it sounds like you're
> speaking of barrel rolls.
> Semantics? If so, wouldn't about 25 to 30 degrees
> up be a better entry before rolling inverted?
Ok, my definitions:
1. A standard roll is where you keep the nose pointed
in the same direction on the horizon, though it may
move vertically a bit. I found that 10 degrees nose
up to 10 degrees nose down works for aircraft that
roll ok, if I do the maneuver right. You need about
zero "G's" at the roll start. For a slow roller, more
nose up is required.
2. A barrel roll is when the nose is pulled up
vertically while rolling 45 degrees to one side, then
continuing the roll until you are higher than the
start altitude, inverted, and 90 degrees off heading.
Then you continue the same pull as in a split "s", but
continue the roll too until you are 90 degrees turned,
back on the origional heading, and on your origional
start altitude too. It is like a rolling loop, but
takes less G's than a loop. The nose never exceeds 45
degrees up or down due to the roll. The aircraft
stress is still high due to the roll twist on the wing
though.
I haven't done barrel rolls in a long long time.
In navy jet training we did a lot of the same stuff
the Blue Angles do, but further apart and not anywhere
near the ground. You learn that sensitivity goes up
with G load. A formation loop trying to maintain 20'
spread is a workload. Stick corrections that work
fine in 1 G formation, are 3 times too much in the
loop. And a plane that rolls 420 degrees/second is
mighty touchy on the stick to begin with. Now I can't
even roll my Fox nicely. Getting old is a pain...
Jim Franklin's video makes it look easy in his IV. I
keep it on my 'puter. He doesn't seem to ever exceed
110 mph, by my guess. Of course that is a IV. You'll
need a little more speed in a "heavy" Fox. But if it
won't do a loop or any other maneuver with 120 mph, it
is too close to VNE to try, IMHO. You need room for
error.
Kurt S.
__________________________________
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Need to sell stuff (off topic) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/13/04 6:20:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
canpilot03@yahoo.ca writes:
<<
Hey ,
What do you mean "Helicopter Job"!!! I thought you retired!!!!
Gil Levesque >>
I might be retired again pretty soon
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Do Not Archive
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
OK well two, way back when, with a very seasoned pilot CFI. The margin for
error is too slim and the consequences for error to great. It is not an
aerobatic plane. A great flyer, not aerobatic. Use it to fly to where you
keep the plane that will forgive you. This one IMHO will not. I don't care
to get into all the but I did this and that's and so on. If you screw up
your done, plane and simple. I like to fly low and fast. Its fun and the
feeling of speed is awesome. If I get a wind shear or sudden engine failure
then IM most likely done. So I am not judging anyone for doing what they
enjoy. Just know what the out come may be. If you are intent, then get some
training in a different aircraft first.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Barrel Rolls
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
-- Fox5flyer <morid@northland.lib.mi.us> wrote:
> Thanks for getting back on this topic Kurt. Nobody
> else has ventured forth yet, but I'm hoping some do.
> More below.
> ............
> >
> > I tried standard rolls starting at 100 knots.
> That was more than the Fox needed. I used 10
degrees
> > nose up for the entry, but didn't get close enough
> > to zero G's on entry and went a bit nose low
> > inverted.
>..........
> When you say standard rolls, it sounds like you're
> speaking of barrel rolls.
> Semantics? If so, wouldn't about 25 to 30 degrees
> up be a better entry before rolling inverted?
Ok, my definitions:
1. A standard roll is where you keep the nose pointed
in the same direction on the horizon, though it may
move vertically a bit. I found that 10 degrees nose
up to 10 degrees nose down works for aircraft that
roll ok, if I do the maneuver right. You need about
zero "G's" at the roll start. For a slow roller, more
nose up is required.
2. A barrel roll is when the nose is pulled up
vertically while rolling 45 degrees to one side, then
continuing the roll until you are higher than the
start altitude, inverted, and 90 degrees off heading.
Then you continue the same pull as in a split "s", but
continue the roll too until you are 90 degrees turned,
back on the origional heading, and on your origional
start altitude too. It is like a rolling loop, but
takes less G's than a loop. The nose never exceeds 45
degrees up or down due to the roll. The aircraft
stress is still high due to the roll twist on the wing
though.
I haven't done barrel rolls in a long long time.
In navy jet training we did a lot of the same stuff
the Blue Angles do, but further apart and not anywhere
near the ground. You learn that sensitivity goes up
with G load. A formation loop trying to maintain 20'
spread is a workload. Stick corrections that work
fine in 1 G formation, are 3 times too much in the
loop. And a plane that rolls 420 degrees/second is
mighty touchy on the stick to begin with. Now I can't
even roll my Fox nicely. Getting old is a pain...
Jim Franklin's video makes it look easy in his IV. I
keep it on my 'puter. He doesn't seem to ever exceed
110 mph, by my guess. Of course that is a IV. You'll
need a little more speed in a "heavy" Fox. But if it
won't do a loop or any other maneuver with 120 mph, it
is too close to VNE to try, IMHO. You need room for
error.
Kurt S.
__________________________________
Message 20
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Rick,
That is my intention too. My plane is for fun other
than real acro. I just wanted it in my logbook during
testing to cover me for any aggressive maneuvers I
might get into. And also to know how well the plane
gets me out of my mistakes. I don't see a need to
test its limits or hurt it, let alone myself.
To me, looking 50' sideways from a mountain peak that
no man has ever climbed is a better thrill. Calm
mornings of course.
My most dangerous activities will certainly be
landings, given my current mastery of the task. Since
I have been testing the plane and mods so much, I
probably haven't got over 60 tailwheel landings to my
name. I need to practice.....
I found out that practicing in the Camp didn't help so
much. Now I flare my Fox high for some reason and
land worse than when I started.
Kurt S.
--- Rick <turboflyer@comcast.net> wrote:
> OK well two, way back when, with a very seasoned
> pilot CFI. The margin for error is too slim and the
> consequences for error to great. .......
__________________________________
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Why use VG's, was:VG's and the testing process |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Cliff,
--- Clifford Begnaud <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
wrote:
> Kurt,
> I've seen a few planes with the taller gear. I think
> for the type of
> mounting system used that they were probably too
> tall to stand up to the
> shear forces that could be encountered on rough
> fields, beaches, river banks
> etc.
The origional tall gear got to the Melniks too. They
bent it in the sand at Sun & Fun when the plane was
brand new. I agree, it didn't look as secure to me
either.
> ...........
> Seems you've discovered the key to landing short;
> "land slow"! You are not cheating at all by dumping
> flaps, that's my favorite technique, especially
> if its windy..........
> Also,
> make sure your engine is at a very slow idle when
> landing. If the idle is
> just a little too fast, it will still be providing
> thrust and greatly
> lengthen your landings. I have experienced this
> first hand on several 912
> powered kitfoxes (including our first one).
>
> You are using the NSI Subaru with CAP prop and Warp
> drive blades, correct? I
> assume that you can go to a very fine pitch so that
> the prop will provide
> lots of drag? Oh wait, I just remembered that the
> NSI gearbox freewheels at
> idle, right? If so, that should allow you to set
> fine pitch and let the prop
> act as an airbrake. Make sure you take advantage of
> that feature on landing,
> it will allow you to make steep approaches to very
> short landings.
>
> Keep us informed of your progress, I look forward to
> hearing how your testing goes, especially as it
> relates to short field ops.
> Best Regards,
> Cliff
My last landing was a long floater. I just didn't get
the prop pitch flat enough and ate up probably 700'
trying to get down. It was an over the trees, then
down hill landing too. That added to the float.
I need to work on the prop pitch thing more to get
good landings, yet allow a good missed approach.
Seems a good landing pitch produces nothing but RPM
with power increase and this electric prop takes a few
seconds to change sufficiently. This is the year to
finish my projects. But I will practice all next
year.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Hello to all my friends |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
Hello listers,
I'm back on the list after a long absence. I hope my friends are now flying
that were 99% completed when I left the list :-) as we know it doesn't
happen easily. As always I'm open to assisting those who have questions on flying
in general, my KitFox experience is very minimal~assisted one customer setting
up his system in his Honda powered Fox and loved the plane, hope to get more
time in the Fox in future. Please, if question is not one that majority of
listers will benefit from, send it to me off list.
Sincerely and Keep the Foxes flying!
Elbie Mendenhall
EM Aviation www.riteangle.com
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Barrel Rolls |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
This is an interesting thread. I too like to fly low. Our group that flew
to Oshkosh always flew legally regarding structures etc., but I remember
one stretch when I was flying behind another Kitfox and thinking - his
wingspan is 32 ft. what is his altitude AGL. He was well within a wingspan
of the ground and this for mile after mile across the corn and sunflower
fields of Minnesota and the unplanted prairies of South Dakota. We've
chased antelope and mustangs in the deserts of Nevada, Oregon and Idaho and
passed over mountain ridges in California, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming at
near tree top level. I have about 11 hours of video of the Oshkosh trip
that I hope to start on once the weather makes outside activities a little
less enticing.
I must say, though that I fly lower when with a group than when alone. I
would sure like to hook up with you other low fliers someday. If I just
didn't have to go to work. It looks like retirement might provide the
opportunity someday.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Barrel Rolls
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> Rick,
>
> That is my intention too. My plane is for fun other
> than real acro. I just wanted it in my logbook during
> testing to cover me for any aggressive maneuvers I
> might get into. And also to know how well the plane
> gets me out of my mistakes. I don't see a need to
> test its limits or hurt it, let alone myself.
>
> To me, looking 50' sideways from a mountain peak that
> no man has ever climbed is a better thrill. Calm
> mornings of course.
>
> My most dangerous activities will certainly be
> landings, given my current mastery of the task. Since
> I have been testing the plane and mods so much, I
> probably haven't got over 60 tailwheel landings to my
> name. I need to practice.....
>
> I found out that practicing in the Camp didn't help so
> much. Now I flare my Fox high for some reason and
> land worse than when I started.
>
> Kurt S.
>
> --- Rick <turboflyer@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > OK well two, way back when, with a very seasoned
> > pilot CFI. The margin for error is too slim and the
> > consequences for error to great. .......
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: VG's and the testing process |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
--- jimshumaker <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Kurt
>
> No I could not measure any difference in cruise or
> top speed. But my top
> sea level cruise speed is almost structural redline.
>
> Oh, I did in fact, use 17 degrees on the VG's also.
>
> Jim Shumaker
OK, Jim,
I will definately have to try the more forward
position and the 17 degree angle next year. It could
turn out that either or both are required for the
speed reduction on my plane.
I wondered about the 15 degrees anyway. Things tend
to stall and create vortex's better past 16 degrees,
if I remember correctly. But Renolds # are in play
too. I just stayed with the book angle on my tests.
I am still a long way from VNE at cruise. Still need
to reduce the drag on my plane. Currently my cruise
is under 100 mph, unless I want to burn a lot of gas.
Since my fairing mod, I haven't tested max level
speed, or max climb rates, or takeoff and landing
distances, or... more fun stuff to test.
Right now I am using adequate power and not awsome
power to takeoff and climb. I use max throttle at
4400 rpm for my upper limit. 4800 is the real max
continuous and 5600 rpm is tops. There is a big jump
in power from 5200 rpm to 5600. I am saving that for
later. It is becoming a good plane.
Got to look into the SS valves soon too, before I do
the high power stuff too much.
Kurt S.
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Pressure Mistery on 912 UL |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Jimmy,
I had the same problem with my Model IV a few years ago and last week
with my Series 6. Both had a Westach quad gauge. In both cases I
proved that the problem was the oil sensor by installing a mechanical
oil pressure gauge. Today for some strange unexplained reason the price
of a replacement Westach oil pressure sensor is well over $200.00. I
haven't decided on a permanent fix yet, but might just stick with the
mechanical oil pressure gauge. Oil pressure gauges, 1/8" aluminum
tubing and some AN fittings are not expensive.
If your problem turns out to not be an instrumentation problem, then the
most probable cause is a restriction in the oil supply or return system,
like a oil line hose or connector. In both my Model IV and Series 6, I
installed the AeroFlex type of hoses with AN fittings. Much easier to
remove and more reliable in my opinion (AN fittings versus hose cable
clamps) I suggest you locate where the problem is first before you go
changing out all of the oil hoses. Also check your oil cooler and
filter for restrictions. My money's on the instrumentation.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
Jimmie Blackwell wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
>Recently I experienced an oil pressure problem indication. I am concerned about
the oil pressure indication showing on my Westach quad gauge. At low rpm,
2000-2500 my oil pressure gauge fluctuates wildly from 60 to 100 psi. Bringing
the rpm up to over 3000 rpm settles the gauge down to between 60 and 80 psi.
I am trying to determine whether I have an oil sensor problem. electrical
problem or an actual oil pressure problem.
>
>Talking to Lockwood they seem to think that I have an oil pressures sensor problem.
A new sensor for the Westach is expensive. Talking to another Rotax repair
facility' they suggest also that it is probably an oil pressure sensor problem,
but it may be a rubber oil line that is collapsing.
>
>Wonder if any of you had these problems.
>
>Before I get airborne again I plan to replace all the oil lines just be safe.
Hopefully someone can tell me what size and type hoses to buy to replace the
oil lines.
>
>Thanks
>
>Jimmie
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Barrel Rolls |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
We'll be waiting for the good vids Lowell. I would
like to add them to my Idaho Back Country vids...
Kurt S.
Do not archive
--- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@inreach.com> wrote:
> This is an interesting thread. I too like to fly
> low. Our group that flew
> to Oshkosh always flew legally regarding structures
> etc., but I remember
> one stretch when I was flying behind another Kitfox
> and thinking - his
> wingspan is 32 ft. what is his altitude AGL. He
> was well within a wingspan
> of the ground and this for mile after mile across
> the corn and sunflower
> fields of Minnesota and the unplanted prairies of
> South Dakota. We've
> chased antelope and mustangs in the deserts of
> Nevada, Oregon and Idaho and
> passed over mountain ridges in California, Idaho,
> Montana and Wyoming at
> near tree top level. I have about 11 hours of video
> of the Oshkosh trip
> that I hope to start on once the weather makes
> outside activities a little
> less enticing.
>
> I must say, though that I fly lower when with a
> group than when alone. I
> would sure like to hook up with you other low fliers
> someday. If I just
> didn't have to go to work. It looks like retirement
> might provide the
> opportunity someday.
>
> Lowell
__________________________________
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 ers!! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: John King <kingjohne@adelphia.net>
Don,
I have talked about it before, but you missed it. I will send you a
picture direct to your retirement home. BTW, if you happen to have any
spare oil pressure sensors for the Westac Quad Gauge, please send one
my way. I'll pay up to $30.00.
--
John King
Warrenton, VA
AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 10/13/04 4:54:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>planecrazy@erols.com writes:
>
><< about3 inches long with about 1/2 diameter . He has mounted this " catch
> just where the sacred over flow lines hang down on each carb so they are
> inside this sirenge about an inch and then he has another fuel line that >>
>
>Chuck,
> Hard to picture, need a picture. I don't recall John ever talking about
>this.
>
>Thanks,
>Don Smythe
>N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Fuel stop in Illinois |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Dave Ron and Bob,
Well guys, I didn't mean to leave you hanging. It
looks like I'll be driving up instead this time. Wx
is not looking good and my GPS internal lithium
battery took a dump. It won't keep waypoints and has
to hunt for 10 minutes to find itself on startup. The
factory wants me to send it to them for a $135 battery
change. Sure! And yes I am chicken to pilotage it
for the first x country, expecially with marginal wx.
This is a downer for my dad, and I have been pushing
very hard to make it happen. It will just have to
wait. I have to know when to take a hint....
I'd like to stop at each one of your places to visit
enroute on one trip or another. I was also told to
try Kankakee, but I don't see any auto fuel there?
The locals use it going to OSH for the show. Anyone
live near Kankakee?
Sorry for the false start.
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Aerobatics@aol.com wrote:
> How about Paxton? they have fule at a good price
> 3,400 foot N/S Paved...
> Ill zip over weather and time permiting... its only
> 18 Miles west of me..
>
> Dave
>
> KF2
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Barrel Rolls |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "William J. Applegate" <bigapple@gct21.net>
Hi Troops,
I don't usually comment on subjects like barrel rolls and flying low,
but today I feel compelled to do so. I was an Air Force flying safety
officer and accident investigator and conducted lots of safety briefings
to squadron and wing personnel. Let me say that one can only tie the
record for flying the lowest. Additionally, the PK (percentage kill)
for hitting the ground is almost 100%. When you are trained to do it,
are competent and proficient at it, have studied the terrain and know it
like your back yard and am completely focused on what you are doing, you
can go low and "fast" successfully. But, think of all the caveats I
included here. Also, just because you are successful once doesn't mean
you always will be. Complacency is the biggest problem you can have and
it has a tendency to creep up on all of us.
I hope I haven't come off as preachy, please keep your head up and eyes
firmly on the target and Fly Safe.
Apples
Lowell Fitt wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
>This is an interesting thread. I too like to fly low. Our group that flew
>to Oshkosh always flew legally regarding structures etc., but I remember
>one stretch when I was flying behind another Kitfox and thinking - his
>wingspan is 32 ft. what is his altitude AGL. He was well within a wingspan
>of the ground and this for mile after mile across the corn and sunflower
>fields of Minnesota and the unplanted prairies of South Dakota. We've
>chased antelope and mustangs in the deserts of Nevada, Oregon and Idaho and
>passed over mountain ridges in California, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming at
>near tree top level. I have about 11 hours of video of the Oshkosh trip
>that I hope to start on once the weather makes outside activities a little
>less enticing.
>
>I must say, though that I fly lower when with a group than when alone. I
>would sure like to hook up with you other low fliers someday. If I just
>didn't have to go to work. It looks like retirement might provide the
>opportunity someday.
>
>Lowell
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Barrel Rolls
>
>
>
>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>>
>>
><smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
>
>>Rick,
>>
>>That is my intention too. My plane is for fun other
>>than real acro. I just wanted it in my logbook during
>>testing to cover me for any aggressive maneuvers I
>>might get into. And also to know how well the plane
>>gets me out of my mistakes. I don't see a need to
>>test its limits or hurt it, let alone myself.
>>
>>To me, looking 50' sideways from a mountain peak that
>>no man has ever climbed is a better thrill. Calm
>>mornings of course.
>>
>>My most dangerous activities will certainly be
>>landings, given my current mastery of the task. Since
>>I have been testing the plane and mods so much, I
>>probably haven't got over 60 tailwheel landings to my
>>name. I need to practice.....
>>
>>I found out that practicing in the Camp didn't help so
>>much. Now I flare my Fox high for some reason and
>>land worse than when I started.
>>
>>Kurt S.
>>
>>--- Rick <turboflyer@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>OK well two, way back when, with a very seasoned
>>>pilot CFI. The margin for error is too slim and the
>>>consequences for error to great. .......
>>>
>>>
>>__________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
Bill,
I loved this sentence in your post:
"Let me say that one can only tie the record for flying the lowest." I had
to read that one twice before I got it. Great post.
Don Pearsall
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