Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:12 AM - Jabiru WAS: windshield (Michel Verheughe)
2. 04:14 AM - Re: Horizontal stabilizer incidence (Larry Huntley)
3. 04:16 AM - Re: Horizontal stabilizer incidence (Wwillyard@aol.com)
4. 04:16 AM - Re: windshield problems (Larry Huntley)
5. 04:18 AM - Re: windshield (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
6. 04:44 AM - Re: windshield problems (Larry Huntley)
7. 05:22 AM - Re: windshield problems (Dee Young)
8. 05:48 AM - Re: windshield problems (Larry Huntley)
9. 05:54 AM - Re: windshield problems (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
10. 06:22 AM - Re: windshield problems (Dee Young)
11. 06:49 AM - Re: I do carry some green (Lowell Fitt)
12. 06:50 AM - Re: Horizontal stabilizer incidence (Lowell Fitt)
13. 06:51 AM - Re: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino (Larry Huntley)
14. 07:22 AM - Re: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino (Harris, Robert)
15. 07:37 AM - Re: windshield (customtrans@qwest.net)
16. 08:29 AM - Re: windshield problems (Gary Algate)
17. 09:00 AM - Re: windshield problems (Bob Unternaehrer)
18. 09:36 AM - Re: Jabiru WAS: windshield (Jose M. Toro)
19. 09:56 AM - Re: windshield problems (customtrans@qwest.net)
20. 11:19 AM - Re: Horizontal stabilizer incidence (Larry Huntley)
21. 11:25 AM - Re: windshield problems (Larry Huntley)
22. 11:36 AM - Re: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
23. 12:08 PM - Re: windshield problems (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
24. 12:48 PM - Re: Jabiru (Michel Verheughe)
25. 01:01 PM - Re: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino (Larry Huntley)
26. 03:16 PM - Test (Do not archive) (Guy Buchanan)
27. 04:05 PM - Re: windshield problems (dwight purdy)
28. 04:11 PM - Re: windshield problems (dwight purdy)
29. 04:59 PM - Re: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino (Clem Nichols)
30. 06:34 PM - Re: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino (Fox5flyer)
31. 06:54 PM - Re: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino (Larry Huntley)
32. 06:54 PM - Re: windshield problems (Comp User)
33. 07:01 PM - Re: windshield (Ceashman@aol.com)
34. 09:14 PM - Re: windshield problems (Jeff Smathers)
35. 10:04 PM - Firewall Insulation (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Jabiru WAS: windshield |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Clem Nichols [cnichols@scrtc.com]
> (Incidentally, if you haven't already noticed, Skystar's new website seems to
be up
> and running, and, Michel, they say they're planning on introducing a Jabiru engine
i!
> nstallation package.)
Thanks, Clem. Yeah, they are copying on me and Jose! :-)
BTW, Saturday, I'll drive to Stavanger (8hours) to go and get my Jabiru 2200. My
aim is to have it installed before new year.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer incidence |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
My bird won't make a 3 pt landing w/ the stab in the top hole. Not enough
elevator authority.
Larry Huntley,Kitfox 4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Horizontal stabilizer incidence
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
> Everyone I have seen is in the top hole and some actually rounded the
> channel on the stab to allow fro a lightly higher mounting. I did it that
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer incidence |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Wwillyard@aol.com
I started out in the middle hole. It did not want to three-point, so I put it
in the bottom hole and added a gap seal for the elevator. Much better now.
Bill W.
Classic IV
In a message dated 10/18/2004 8:18:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <brettandsandy@numail.org>
writes:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: <brettandsandy@numail.org>
>
>Can anyone tell me what the horizontal stab incidence (relative to level
>fuselage) ended up being on their Classic IV with a 912? Or just which hole
>(new or old book) the leading edge of the stab ended up in? Thanks
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: windshield problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
FWIIW, LP will usually send you the second one at 1/2 price. They did when I
broke the one for my Funk while trying to fit it.
Larry Huntley,Kitfox 4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
> I am curious to hear from those that used the LP windshield and any
comments
> on installation. I seem to remember from comments on the list at least
two
> that cracked the windshield on installation and went for another one to
> finish the job - is my memory correct on this?
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> > Yep, at a 100 deg though you're not really even approaching forming (or
> > crazing) temp. All it seems to do is to help stress relieve a little
> > apparently.
> >
> > By the time one goes to the trouble and expense I'd expect that the LP
> > formed windshield would be in order.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> > AlbertaIV@aol.com
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 10/18/04 2:36:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > FLIER@sbcglobal.net writes:
> >
> > << You really need to heat and form it while hot. I put
> > my second windshield in on a day when the OAT was
> > around 100 deg. F and have found it's lasted a lot
> > longer (5 yrs) than the first one did (little over 2
> > yrs). The first one was installed in an OAT around
> > 70 deg F. So, I'll wait until the hottest day of
> > summer the next time I install one!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ted
> > >>
> > Ted,
> > I guess waiting until the hottest day of the year is only half way
> > approaching the problem. On hot days the humidity is usually high and
> does
> > not
> > permit proper drying prior to heat forming. It's always been one of my
> > "things
> > to do" to build an oven that would properly dry the Lexan before
bringing
> it
> > up
> > to temp for heat forming. I'm not sure if an exact mold would be
required
> > when doing the heat form portion. I think anything along this approach
> > would be
> > much better than simply bending the Lexan in "any" OAT condition????
> > If someone would build and oven that would dry the lexan and then
heat
> > form it, they could make some good money just selling to the Kitfox
list??
> >
> > Don Smythe
> > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/18/04 5:56:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
customtrans@qwest.net writes:
<<
I noticed that they can put tint on the windshield, is this a good idea?
>>
It has been stated in the past that the add on tint should not be the glue
type but rather the cling type. Seems the glue type will act badly on the
Lexan. I've seen "not for plastics" on some of the auto store tints.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: windshield problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
I am beginning to wonder if the brand of polycarbonate may be part of the
problem here. As I mentioned in a previous post,I think mine was "Rhino". I
have had no cracking problem. Sounds like most of the people w/ problems
have used "Lexan". Any thoughts on this? Wish I had a piece of scrap so I
could be sure. I will keep looking.
Larry Huntley,Kitfox 4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
<jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Clem
>
> If you replace with a flat sheet I have two things you could consider.
>
> 1) Do NOT use hardware store lexan. A friend in plastics has indicated
> that the sheets sent to the big store discounters is made up of scrape
from
> spec quality runs. Remember, you do not use hardware bolts in your plane
> for a reason.
>
> 2) Make the cut out radius at the transition (from front to back to side
to
> side curve) as large as possible. This is the best way to limit the
double
> twist.
>
> Jim Shumaker
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: windshield problems |
Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 06:21:22 -0600
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Larry maybe you are right. The material I used came from ACS. I used my old screen
for a template but did something slightly different. I over sized the mounting
holes and expanded the transition area at the front of the wing. I used SS
screws and a small clear poly washer purchased from ACS for attachment. To date
there has been no problem with the fasteners or crazing or cracking. It has
been in service for 1 1/2 years and was installed during cold temps. No heat
was applied but did use clamps down both sides of the door to secure the material
during installation.
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Huntley<mailto:asq1@adelphia.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 5:46 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net<mailto:asq1@adelphia.net>>
I am beginning to wonder if the brand of polycarbonate may be part of the
problem here. As I mentioned in a previous post,I think mine was "Rhino". I
have had no cracking problem. Sounds like most of the people w/ problems
have used "Lexan". Any thoughts on this? Wish I had a piece of scrap so I
could be sure. I will keep looking.
Larry Huntley,Kitfox 4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net<mailto:jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>>
To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
<jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net<mailto:jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>>
>
> Clem
>
> If you replace with a flat sheet I have two things you could consider.
>
> 1) Do NOT use hardware store lexan. A friend in plastics has indicated
> that the sheets sent to the big store discounters is made up of scrape
from
> spec quality runs. Remember, you do not use hardware bolts in your plane
> for a reason.
>
> 2) Make the cut out radius at the transition (from front to back to side
to
> side curve) as large as possible. This is the best way to limit the
double
> twist.
>
> Jim Shumaker
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: windshield problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
Dee, Do you remember what brand you received from ACS? Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>
> Larry maybe you are right. The material I used came from ACS. I used my
old screen for a template but did something slightly different. I over sized
the mounting holes and expanded the transition area at the front of the
wing. I used SS screws and a small clear poly washer purchased from ACS for
attachment. To date there has been no problem with the fasteners or crazing
or cracking. It has been in service for 1 1/2 years and was installed during
cold temps. No heat was applied but did use clamps down both sides of the
door to secure the material during installation.
>
> Dee Young
> Model II
> N345DY
>
> Do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Larry Huntley<mailto:asq1@adelphia.net>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 5:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley"
<asq1@adelphia.net<mailto:asq1@adelphia.net>>
>
> I am beginning to wonder if the brand of polycarbonate may be part of
the
> problem here. As I mentioned in a previous post,I think mine was
"Rhino". I
> have had no cracking problem. Sounds like most of the people w/ problems
> have used "Lexan". Any thoughts on this? Wish I had a piece of scrap so
I
> could be sure. I will keep looking.
> Larry Huntley,Kitfox 4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jimshumaker"
<jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net<mailto:jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
> <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net<mailto:jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>>
> >
> > Clem
> >
> > If you replace with a flat sheet I have two things you could consider.
> >
> > 1) Do NOT use hardware store lexan. A friend in plastics has
indicated
> > that the sheets sent to the big store discounters is made up of scrape
> from
> > spec quality runs. Remember, you do not use hardware bolts in your
plane
> > for a reason.
> >
> > 2) Make the cut out radius at the transition (from front to back to
side
> to
> > side curve) as large as possible. This is the best way to limit the
> double
> > twist.
> >
> > Jim Shumaker
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: windshield problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/19/04 4:45:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
asq1@adelphia.net writes:
<< problem here. As I mentioned in a previous post,I think mine was "Rhino".
I >>
Larry,
I bought my last piece from a Plastics company that deals in nothing but
Plastics. I might be wrong but I believe it was the Rhino brand. Again, I
went from .093" to .063" to hopefully help prevent crazing. Mine is already
crazing after only a few months. The thinner material didn't help. Mine is also
cracking at every bolt hole.
Procedure in bending and drilling might be the problem but I studied all
the web pages on Lexan and tried my best to follow their guidelines. However,
their guide lines call for "NO" drilling of holes for installation. I talked
to them on the phone a couple times and stated that holes are necessary.
They gave me all kinds of tips for drilling the holes but none worked. I've even
tried using a soldering iron to test making holes. Might work but looks bad.
Tried using super glue to coat holes. The Lexan folks said super glue is
too harsh for the material.
My next approach is to build a fiberglass transition piece that will fit
all the way across the windshield at the top front area. This will encompass
the compound bend area at the upper corners and therefore, the lexan won't
have to do that bend. The windshield would be installed in two pieces
(top/front) and have no compound bends. If this works, replacing windshields would
be
a snap when needed and take away all the high expense of the LP's and such.
I've looked and don't feel a fiberglass transition piece would block the pilots
view much at all. Would also give you the option to put smoked lexan on top
and clear on the front.
Always something to do
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: windshield problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Larry, I believe it was .080 Lexan as advertized on page 74 in one of the
older books. It is in the ME section under "Everything Plastic" like first
page. It cost me 2.10 sq ft.
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do not archive
>From: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
>Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:50:02 -0400
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
>
>Dee, Do you remember what brand you received from ACS? Larry
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
> >
> > Larry maybe you are right. The material I used came from ACS. I used my
>old screen for a template but did something slightly different. I over
>sized
>the mounting holes and expanded the transition area at the front of the
>wing. I used SS screws and a small clear poly washer purchased from ACS for
>attachment. To date there has been no problem with the fasteners or crazing
>or cracking. It has been in service for 1 1/2 years and was installed
>during
>cold temps. No heat was applied but did use clamps down both sides of the
>door to secure the material during installation.
> >
> > Dee Young
> > Model II
> > N345DY
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Larry Huntley<mailto:asq1@adelphia.net>
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 5:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley"
><asq1@adelphia.net<mailto:asq1@adelphia.net>>
> >
> > I am beginning to wonder if the brand of polycarbonate may be part of
>the
> > problem here. As I mentioned in a previous post,I think mine was
>"Rhino". I
> > have had no cracking problem. Sounds like most of the people w/
>problems
> > have used "Lexan". Any thoughts on this? Wish I had a piece of scrap
>so
>I
> > could be sure. I will keep looking.
> > Larry Huntley,Kitfox 4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jimshumaker"
><jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net<mailto:jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>>
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
> > <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net<mailto:jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>>
> > >
> > > Clem
> > >
> > > If you replace with a flat sheet I have two things you could
>consider.
> > >
> > > 1) Do NOT use hardware store lexan. A friend in plastics has
>indicated
> > > that the sheets sent to the big store discounters is made up of
>scrape
> > from
> > > spec quality runs. Remember, you do not use hardware bolts in your
>plane
> > > for a reason.
> > >
> > > 2) Make the cut out radius at the transition (from front to back to
>side
> > to
> > > side curve) as large as possible. This is the best way to limit the
> > double
> > > twist.
> > >
> > > Jim Shumaker
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: I do carry some green |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Rex,
You made a very good point that I should have mentioned. A friend had the
same problem with his rims to the point that they were leaking through the
metal somewhere.
The stuff I got was indeed Green Slime, but formulated for tubeless tires.
With all the alloy rims out there, I am presuming that this formulation
would be consistent with our aluminum rims. I will know for sure when I
change the tires out next time.
Lowell
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: I do carry some green
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
>
> I do carry some green stuff to seal pinholes
>
> Hi ! Lowell,
> recently I changed from the original buffed down 8" ATV
> tyres and fitted lawnmower tyres 18x6.5x8. Anyway when the tyre guy let
the
> air out of the old tyres he noticed some of that green stuff coming out.
We
> call it Green Slime here in Australia. He commented that it eats into the
> rims real bad unless used in a tube but of course with those ATV tyres we
> had no tubes. Anyway when we got the tyres off you could see the damage
the
> green slime was starting to do. Now personally I had only had it in a few
> months but I had been told by the builder of the plane that there was
> sealant in the tyres. I don't know though if that was also Green Slime. We
> just cleaned it all up and put the new tyres on without sealant. At first
we
> didn't fit tubes but had a little trouble with slow air loss due to a
little
> distortion of the rim surface where the lugs for the brake discs had been
> welded. However apart from that our new 4 ply lawnmower tyres were not
going
> flat all the time due to prickles from grass strips. We fitted tubes and
now
> haven't had to touch the pressures for ages.
> The tyre guy said if we did need sealant in the future to use some
> vegetable based stuff I think he told me it was. It had no effect on bare
> rims without tubes. I bought a bottle and carry it but have not needed it.
> The price was the same as the green stuff.
> Rex Shaw
> Australia
> Kitfox MKIV Classic Speedster/582.
> rexjan@bigpond.com
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer incidence |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Larry, What is your tail wheel weight? did you close the gap with tape?
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Horizontal stabilizer incidence
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
>
> My bird won't make a 3 pt landing w/ the stab in the top hole. Not enough
> elevator authority.
> Larry Huntley,Kitfox 4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Horizontal stabilizer incidence
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
> >
> > Everyone I have seen is in the top hole and some actually rounded the
> > channel on the stab to allow fro a lightly higher mounting. I did it
that
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
Hi Don,et al,
The brand is Hyzod and not Rhino. My mistake. I feel pretty stupid.
Finally found a piece in the basement. It has a picture of a rhinoceros on
the sheet. It is made by Sheffield Plastics in Sheffield,Mass.My suggestion
and the picture is probably why you remembered it also.Here is a link to
their website: http://www.signweb.com/fabrication/cont/shapeshft6.htm
Mine is .060. I just cut off a corner of this 11 year old piece with
aviation snips. Just sheared it. The piece is about a 1.5" X 2" right
triangle. I drilled a hole in it w/ a 3/8" drill on a drill press. I was not
careful. I practically punched it through w/ force to try to crack it. I
then bent it 180degrees at room temp ,that is ,doubled it over and it is
optically distorted where I bent it over but no cracks and no other damage.
The problems that some have been talking about sound almost like acrylic. I
think both will crack in the holes unless drilled at least 1/16 larger than
the bolt.
I would be very reluctant to use "Lexan" after everything I have heard.
Make sure you know what you have. Remember "LEXAN IS A BRAND NAME" not type
of material. The material is POLYCARBONATE. It is made by many manufacturers
and by many different brand names.Hyzod is one of them. I assume all brand
names differ slightly in some way. Don,I know you know the difference,but
often people don't and that could also be part of the problem.
Don, Please send me your snail address. I am putting this piece in an
envelope to send to you. I wish I could get you in my shop for a while( The
Marys can check out the sheep and chickens! ;o)
Larry Huntley,Kitfox
4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
>
> Larry,
> I bought my last piece from a Plastics company that deals in nothing
but
> Plastics. I might be wrong but I believe it was the Rhino brand. Again,
I
> went from .093" to .063" to hopefully help prevent crazing. Mine is
already
> crazing after only a few months. The thinner material didn't help. Mine
is also
> cracking at every bolt hole.
> Procedure in bending and drilling might be the problem but I studied
all
> the web pages on Lexan and tried my best to follow their guidelines.
However,
> their guide lines call for "NO" drilling of holes for installation. I
talked
> to them on the phone a couple times and stated that holes are necessary.
> They gave me all kinds of tips for drilling the holes but none worked.
I've even
> tried using a soldering iron to test making holes. Might work but looks
bad.
> Tried using super glue to coat holes. The Lexan folks said super glue is
> too harsh for the material.
> My next approach is to build a fiberglass transition piece that will
fit
> all the way across the windshield at the top front area. This will
encompass
> the compound bend area at the upper corners and therefore, the lexan won't
> have to do that bend. The windshield would be installed in two pieces
> (top/front) and have no compound bends. If this works, replacing
windshields would be
> a snap when needed and take away all the high expense of the LP's and
such.
> I've looked and don't feel a fiberglass transition piece would block the
pilots
> view much at all. Would also give you the option to put smoked lexan on
top
> and clear on the front.
>
> Always something to do
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Thanks for the link and good info. After all of the windshield talk I may
replace mine. It doesn't sound too hard.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Huntley
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
Hi Don,et al,
The brand is Hyzod and not Rhino. My mistake. I feel pretty stupid.
Finally found a piece in the basement. It has a picture of a rhinoceros on
the sheet. It is made by Sheffield Plastics in Sheffield,Mass.My suggestion
and the picture is probably why you remembered it also.Here is a link to
their website: http://www.signweb.com/fabrication/cont/shapeshft6.htm
Mine is .060. I just cut off a corner of this 11 year old piece with
aviation snips. Just sheared it. The piece is about a 1.5" X 2" right
triangle. I drilled a hole in it w/ a 3/8" drill on a drill press. I was not
careful. I practically punched it through w/ force to try to crack it. I
then bent it 180degrees at room temp ,that is ,doubled it over and it is
optically distorted where I bent it over but no cracks and no other damage.
The problems that some have been talking about sound almost like acrylic. I
think both will crack in the holes unless drilled at least 1/16 larger than
the bolt.
I would be very reluctant to use "Lexan" after everything I have heard.
Make sure you know what you have. Remember "LEXAN IS A BRAND NAME" not type
of material. The material is POLYCARBONATE. It is made by many manufacturers
and by many different brand names.Hyzod is one of them. I assume all brand
names differ slightly in some way. Don,I know you know the difference,but
often people don't and that could also be part of the problem.
Don, Please send me your snail address. I am putting this piece in an
envelope to send to you. I wish I could get you in my shop for a while( The
Marys can check out the sheep and chickens! ;o)
Larry Huntley,Kitfox
4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
>
> Larry,
> I bought my last piece from a Plastics company that deals in nothing
but
> Plastics. I might be wrong but I believe it was the Rhino brand. Again,
I
> went from .093" to .063" to hopefully help prevent crazing. Mine is
already
> crazing after only a few months. The thinner material didn't help. Mine
is also
> cracking at every bolt hole.
> Procedure in bending and drilling might be the problem but I studied
all
> the web pages on Lexan and tried my best to follow their guidelines.
However,
> their guide lines call for "NO" drilling of holes for installation. I
talked
> to them on the phone a couple times and stated that holes are necessary.
> They gave me all kinds of tips for drilling the holes but none worked.
I've even
> tried using a soldering iron to test making holes. Might work but looks
bad.
> Tried using super glue to coat holes. The Lexan folks said super glue is
> too harsh for the material.
> My next approach is to build a fiberglass transition piece that will
fit
> all the way across the windshield at the top front area. This will
encompass
> the compound bend area at the upper corners and therefore, the lexan won't
> have to do that bend. The windshield would be installed in two pieces
> (top/front) and have no compound bends. If this works, replacing
windshields would be
> a snap when needed and take away all the high expense of the LP's and
such.
> I've looked and don't feel a fiberglass transition piece would block the
pilots
> view much at all. Would also give you the option to put smoked lexan on
top
> and clear on the front.
>
> Always something to do
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 15
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
to clean the windshield, try Pledge.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
Huntley
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
Hi Folks,
FWIIW, I installed my polycarbonate windshield ( I think it was Rhino,I
know it wasn't Lexan) in 1997. There was a lot of stress in the top corners.
I worked in a shop at about 75-80F. Once I had it in place,I "wiped" it w/ a
heat gun til I could see the material"relax" and stopped immediately. I have
some crazing in those areas but no real cracks. I have flown it in weather
from 10F to 95F. Doesn't seem to get any worse. Biggest problem is
many,many, scratches,some of them pretty bad, from raising the rear of the
cowling mostly. It is getting hazy in some places from an incorrect cleaning
agent.
I will probably replace it next summer after 400+ hrs. I Think would use
acrylic because of the resistance to haze and scratching , but I did a lot
of reconfiguring of my cowling when installing my own Soob package and I
don't think I could make one fit.
On another front,My Tripacer acrylic shield has a lot of crazing in that
area as well as a couple of short cracks that I have stop-drilled,so that is
not perfect either.
Nothing but thoughts and opinions.
Larry Huntley,Kitfox 4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | windshield problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Gents
I am using standard 1/8" Lexan as supplied by the local plastics supplier.
The only problem I have had is when I managed to stupidly pour gas on it
while refueling on a hot day. I did this so many times that I found there
was little or no effect on a cold day while it would cause immediate crazing
on a hot day.
With the standard lexan (8 x 4 sheet) I get two complete windscreens for
around CD$100 and once you are experienced it is only a 2 hour job for a
complete replacement.
I use the tinted lexan as I think it makes the plane look great plus it is
easy on the eyes for both winter and summer flying and I rarely fly after
sunset.
The 1/8" sheet may be a little more difficult to initially fit than the
thinner material but is certainly a lot stronger and offers a lot more
protection in the event of a bird strike.
Gary A
Lite2/582
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: windshield problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer" <shilohcom@c-magic.com>
What were some of the "tips" they gave for drilling. Was on running the
drill backwards or sharpening the bit at a reverse angle so it won't cut,
but must burn thru. Also you can buy special bits that are already
sharpened backwards to drill lexan and plexiglass. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 10/19/04 4:45:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> asq1@adelphia.net writes:
>
> << problem here. As I mentioned in a previous post,I think mine was
"Rhino".
> I >>
>
> Larry,
> I bought my last piece from a Plastics company that deals in nothing
but
> Plastics. I might be wrong but I believe it was the Rhino brand. Again,
I
> went from .093" to .063" to hopefully help prevent crazing. Mine is
already
> crazing after only a few months. The thinner material didn't help. Mine
is also
> cracking at every bolt hole.
> Procedure in bending and drilling might be the problem but I studied
all
> the web pages on Lexan and tried my best to follow their guidelines.
However,
> their guide lines call for "NO" drilling of holes for installation. I
talked
> to them on the phone a couple times and stated that holes are necessary.
> They gave me all kinds of tips for drilling the holes but none worked.
I've even
> tried using a soldering iron to test making holes. Might work but looks
bad.
> Tried using super glue to coat holes. The Lexan folks said super glue is
> too harsh for the material.
> My next approach is to build a fiberglass transition piece that will
fit
> all the way across the windshield at the top front area. This will
encompass
> the compound bend area at the upper corners and therefore, the lexan won't
> have to do that bend. The windshield would be installed in two pieces
> (top/front) and have no compound bends. If this works, replacing
windshields would be
> a snap when needed and take away all the high expense of the LP's and
such.
> I've looked and don't feel a fiberglass transition piece would block the
pilots
> view much at all. Would also give you the option to put smoked lexan on
top
> and clear on the front.
>
> Always something to do
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru WAS: windshield |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Michel:
I have not been able to place my order yet. Still waiting for the shipping information
to Puerto Rico. My original plan was to have my installation complete
by the end of the year, but it looks like it won't happen. I'm glad I'm getting
good service from the 582 (not grounded). Did you take a decision regarding
the cowling?
Are you going to use mechanical gauges or the digital stuff?
I saw in a previous e-mail that you wrote a message in perfect spanish. What is
your main language there in Norway?
Regards!
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe
> From: Clem Nichols [cnichols@scrtc.com]
> (Incidentally, if you haven't already noticed, Skystar's new website seems to
be up
> and running, and, Michel, they say they're planning on introducing a Jabiru engine
i!
> nstallation package.)
Thanks, Clem. Yeah, they are copying on me and Jose! :-)
BTW, Saturday, I'll drive to Stavanger (8hours) to go and get my Jabiru 2200. My
aim is to have it installed before new year.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | windshield problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
I have a thought here, how about drilling the holes and then using a reamer
to finish the hole size, debur properly smooth out all edges in the lexan no
sharp corners, rounded corners. You know, do the same thing as you would do
with aluminum parts.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Unternaehrer
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer"
<shilohcom@c-magic.com>
What were some of the "tips" they gave for drilling. Was on running the
drill backwards or sharpening the bit at a reverse angle so it won't cut,
but must burn thru. Also you can buy special bits that are already
sharpened backwards to drill lexan and plexiglass. bob U.
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 10/19/04 4:45:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> asq1@adelphia.net writes:
>
> << problem here. As I mentioned in a previous post,I think mine was
"Rhino".
> I >>
>
> Larry,
> I bought my last piece from a Plastics company that deals in nothing
but
> Plastics. I might be wrong but I believe it was the Rhino brand. Again,
I
> went from .093" to .063" to hopefully help prevent crazing. Mine is
already
> crazing after only a few months. The thinner material didn't help. Mine
is also
> cracking at every bolt hole.
> Procedure in bending and drilling might be the problem but I studied
all
> the web pages on Lexan and tried my best to follow their guidelines.
However,
> their guide lines call for "NO" drilling of holes for installation. I
talked
> to them on the phone a couple times and stated that holes are necessary.
> They gave me all kinds of tips for drilling the holes but none worked.
I've even
> tried using a soldering iron to test making holes. Might work but looks
bad.
> Tried using super glue to coat holes. The Lexan folks said super glue is
> too harsh for the material.
> My next approach is to build a fiberglass transition piece that will
fit
> all the way across the windshield at the top front area. This will
encompass
> the compound bend area at the upper corners and therefore, the lexan won't
> have to do that bend. The windshield would be installed in two pieces
> (top/front) and have no compound bends. If this works, replacing
windshields would be
> a snap when needed and take away all the high expense of the LP's and
such.
> I've looked and don't feel a fiberglass transition piece would block the
pilots
> view much at all. Would also give you the option to put smoked lexan on
top
> and clear on the front.
>
> Always something to do
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal stabilizer incidence |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
Tail weight is about 45#. With the HS in the center hole I and gap seal it
is touchy ,but I can 3 pt smoothly almost ;o) every time. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Horizontal stabilizer incidence
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
> Larry, What is your tail wheel weight? did you close the gap with tape?
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Horizontal stabilizer incidence
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
> >
> > My bird won't make a 3 pt landing w/ the stab in the top hole. Not
enough
> > elevator authority.
> > Larry Huntley,Kitfox 4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
> > To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Horizontal stabilizer incidence
> >
> >
> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
> > >
> > > Everyone I have seen is in the top hole and some actually rounded the
> > > channel on the stab to allow fro a lightly higher mounting. I did it
> that
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: windshield problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
I think that would work well. You don't need anything special for drilling
or cutting polycarbonate,but you DEFINITELY do for acrylic. On either,smooth
edges and holes limit cracking. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: <customtrans@qwest.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
>
> I have a thought here, how about drilling the holes and then using a
reamer
> to finish the hole size, debur properly smooth out all edges in the lexan
no
> sharp corners, rounded corners. You know, do the same thing as you would
do
> with aluminum parts.
>
> steve a
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob
> Unternaehrer
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Unternaehrer"
> <shilohcom@c-magic.com>
>
> What were some of the "tips" they gave for drilling. Was on running the
> drill backwards or sharpening the bit at a reverse angle so it won't cut,
> but must burn thru. Also you can buy special bits that are already
> sharpened backwards to drill lexan and plexiglass. bob U.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 10/19/04 4:45:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > asq1@adelphia.net writes:
> >
> > << problem here. As I mentioned in a previous post,I think mine was
> "Rhino".
> > I >>
> >
> > Larry,
> > I bought my last piece from a Plastics company that deals in nothing
> but
> > Plastics. I might be wrong but I believe it was the Rhino brand.
Again,
> I
> > went from .093" to .063" to hopefully help prevent crazing. Mine is
> already
> > crazing after only a few months. The thinner material didn't help.
Mine
> is also
> > cracking at every bolt hole.
> > Procedure in bending and drilling might be the problem but I studied
> all
> > the web pages on Lexan and tried my best to follow their guidelines.
> However,
> > their guide lines call for "NO" drilling of holes for installation. I
> talked
> > to them on the phone a couple times and stated that holes are necessary.
> > They gave me all kinds of tips for drilling the holes but none worked.
> I've even
> > tried using a soldering iron to test making holes. Might work but looks
> bad.
> > Tried using super glue to coat holes. The Lexan folks said super glue
is
> > too harsh for the material.
> > My next approach is to build a fiberglass transition piece that will
> fit
> > all the way across the windshield at the top front area. This will
> encompass
> > the compound bend area at the upper corners and therefore, the lexan
won't
> > have to do that bend. The windshield would be installed in two pieces
> > (top/front) and have no compound bends. If this works, replacing
> windshields would be
> > a snap when needed and take away all the high expense of the LP's and
> such.
> > I've looked and don't feel a fiberglass transition piece would block the
> pilots
> > view much at all. Would also give you the option to put smoked lexan on
> top
> > and clear on the front.
> >
> > Always something to do
> > Don Smythe
> > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
> >
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
>
> ---
>
>
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/19/04 6:51:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
asq1@adelphia.net writes:
<<
Hi Don,et al,
The brand is Hyzod and not Rhino. My mistake. I feel pretty stupid. >>
If you think you feel stupid, I agreed with you on Rhino. Now that you point
out your mistake I have to go along and again think I had the same. Don't
know how Hyzod confused me with Rhino
Do Not Archive
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: windshield problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/19/04 9:01:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
shilohcom@c-magic.com writes:
<<
What were some of the "tips" they gave for drilling. Was on running the
drill backwards or sharpening the bit at a reverse angle so it won't cut,
but must burn thru. Also you can buy special bits that are already
sharpened backwards to drill lexan and plexiglass. bob U.
>>
Drill slow, use new sharp bits, make one continuos curely-cue of plastic
during drilling, use alum washers under bolts, debur edges and all that stuff.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 24
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|
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
"Jose M. Toro" wrote:
> My original plan was to have my installation complete by the end of the year,
> but it looks like it won't happen.
I have the same plan, Jose, and I think I'll manage it.
> Did you take a decision regarding the cowling?
I think I'll go for the "Jabiru aircraft front bowl" moulded in my existing
cowling. Meanwhile, I try to model what it could look like in X-Plane, my
favourite flight simulator. Here is a screenshot:
http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/JabFox.jpg
> Are you going to use mechanical gauges or the digital stuff?
I like analogue displays. On my sailboat, I don't want anything else. E.g. in a
stress situation I find difficult to read the depth from the echo-sounder when
displayed digital. Was it 2.3 meter or 23 meter? But the old-fashion sounder
with the rotating arm shows an angle. You can get it wrong.
> I saw in a previous e-mail that you wrote a message in perfect spanish. What
is your main
> language there in Norway?
I was born and grew up in Belgium, with French as my mother tongue. At 22, I
moved to Spain where my parents retired. I lived there 5 years, our son was
born there and both my parents are now buried there. I still have a brother and
a sister living in the Alicante region. 28 years ago, I moved to Norway and I
am now a norwegian citizen. Here, we speak Norwegian, a Scandinavian language
from Germanic origin. Todo esto para decirte que soy europeo con mi alma un
poquito en Espaa, en Belgica y tambien en Noruega! :-)
Saludos,
Michel
do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
Don,
It is because it has a pic of a Rhino on the cover sheet. I was probably
calling that when I was working w/ it. ;o). We have probably been 'round
this way before. It has been a while. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 10/19/04 6:51:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> asq1@adelphia.net writes:
>
> <<
> Hi Don,et al,
> The brand is Hyzod and not Rhino. My mistake. I feel pretty stupid. >>
>
> If you think you feel stupid, I agreed with you on Rhino. Now that you
point
> out your mistake I have to go along and again think I had the same. Don't
> know how Hyzod confused me with Rhino
>
> Do Not Archive
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Test (Do not archive) |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Test (Do not archive)
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: windshield problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: dwight purdy <dpurdy@comteck.com>
Do not know about cracking,but I have poured gasoline on true Lexan with no
damage. I have seen a Rans 14 new windshield destroyed with gasoline.
Dwight
At 07:46 AM 10/19/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
>
>I am beginning to wonder if the brand of polycarbonate may be part of the
>problem here. As I mentioned in a previous post,I think mine was "Rhino". I
>have had no cracking problem. Sounds like most of the people w/ problems
>have used "Lexan". Any thoughts on this? Wish I had a piece of scrap so I
>could be sure. I will keep looking.
>Larry Huntley,Kitfox 4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "jimshumaker" <jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jimshumaker"
><jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> > Clem
> >
> > If you replace with a flat sheet I have two things you could consider.
> >
> > 1) Do NOT use hardware store lexan. A friend in plastics has indicated
> > that the sheets sent to the big store discounters is made up of scrape
>from
> > spec quality runs. Remember, you do not use hardware bolts in your plane
> > for a reason.
> >
> > 2) Make the cut out radius at the transition (from front to back to side
>to
> > side curve) as large as possible. This is the best way to limit the
>double
> > twist.
> >
> > Jim Shumaker
> >
> >
>
>
>---
>Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 10/8/2004
---
Message 28
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| Subject: | windshield problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: dwight purdy <dpurdy@comteck.com>
That statement I made about pouring gasoline on Lexan was not done at
different temps.
Dwight
At 11:30 AM 10/19/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
>Gents
>
>I am using standard 1/8" Lexan as supplied by the local plastics supplier.
>The only problem I have had is when I managed to stupidly pour gas on it
>while refueling on a hot day. I did this so many times that I found there
>was little or no effect on a cold day while it would cause immediate crazing
>on a hot day.
>
>With the standard lexan (8 x 4 sheet) I get two complete windscreens for
>around CD$100 and once you are experienced it is only a 2 hour job for a
>complete replacement.
>
>I use the tinted lexan as I think it makes the plane look great plus it is
>easy on the eyes for both winter and summer flying and I rarely fly after
>sunset.
>
>The 1/8" sheet may be a little more difficult to initially fit than the
>thinner material but is certainly a lot stronger and offers a lot more
>protection in the event of a bird strike.
>
>Gary A
>Lite2/582
>
>
>---
>Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 10/8/2004
---
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Larry:
Very valuable info! In checking out the Hyzod polycarbonate, I find they
make several different grades. It's unlikely you could remember which grade
you purchased 11 years ago, but perhaps the sheet with the rhino picture on
it contains that information??? I found it interesting that the
polycarbonate is 30 times stronger than acrylic, at least that's the claim
made. Thanks for the post. Do Not Archive.
Clem Nichols
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
>
> Hi Don,et al,
> The brand is Hyzod and not Rhino. My mistake. I feel pretty stupid.
> Finally found a piece in the basement. It has a picture of a rhinoceros on
> the sheet. It is made by Sheffield Plastics in Sheffield,Mass.My
> suggestion
> and the picture is probably why you remembered it also.Here is a link to
> their website: http://www.signweb.com/fabrication/cont/shapeshft6.htm
> Mine is .060. I just cut off a corner of this 11 year old piece with
> aviation snips. Just sheared it. The piece is about a 1.5" X 2" right
> triangle. I drilled a hole in it w/ a 3/8" drill on a drill press. I was
> not
> careful. I practically punched it through w/ force to try to crack it. I
> then bent it 180degrees at room temp ,that is ,doubled it over and it is
> optically distorted where I bent it over but no cracks and no other
> damage.
> The problems that some have been talking about sound almost like acrylic.
> I
> think both will crack in the holes unless drilled at least 1/16 larger
> than
> the bolt.
> I would be very reluctant to use "Lexan" after everything I have heard.
> Make sure you know what you have. Remember "LEXAN IS A BRAND NAME" not
> type
> of material. The material is POLYCARBONATE. It is made by many
> manufacturers
> and by many different brand names.Hyzod is one of them. I assume all brand
> names differ slightly in some way. Don,I know you know the difference,but
> often people don't and that could also be part of the problem.
> Don, Please send me your snail address. I am putting this piece in an
> envelope to send to you. I wish I could get you in my shop for a while(
> The
> Marys can check out the sheep and chickens! ;o)
> Larry Huntley,Kitfox
> 4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
>>
>> Larry,
>> I bought my last piece from a Plastics company that deals in nothing
> but
>> Plastics. I might be wrong but I believe it was the Rhino brand. Again,
> I
>> went from .093" to .063" to hopefully help prevent crazing. Mine is
> already
>> crazing after only a few months. The thinner material didn't help. Mine
> is also
>> cracking at every bolt hole.
>> Procedure in bending and drilling might be the problem but I studied
> all
>> the web pages on Lexan and tried my best to follow their guidelines.
> However,
>> their guide lines call for "NO" drilling of holes for installation. I
> talked
>> to them on the phone a couple times and stated that holes are necessary.
>> They gave me all kinds of tips for drilling the holes but none worked.
> I've even
>> tried using a soldering iron to test making holes. Might work but looks
> bad.
>> Tried using super glue to coat holes. The Lexan folks said super glue
>> is
>> too harsh for the material.
>> My next approach is to build a fiberglass transition piece that will
> fit
>> all the way across the windshield at the top front area. This will
> encompass
>> the compound bend area at the upper corners and therefore, the lexan
>> won't
>> have to do that bend. The windshield would be installed in two pieces
>> (top/front) and have no compound bends. If this works, replacing
> windshields would be
>> a snap when needed and take away all the high expense of the LP's and
> such.
>> I've looked and don't feel a fiberglass transition piece would block the
> pilots
>> view much at all. Would also give you the option to put smoked lexan on
> top
>> and clear on the front.
>>
>> Always something to do
>> Don Smythe
>> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
30 times stronger seems a bit of a stretch, but maybe. Then again, it may
be about 30 times softer when it comes to abrasion resistance. Cheaper than
the LP, but maybe not over the long haul when you factor in the shipping,
hours of work every few years, etc. With the LP, if you take care of it and
keep it hangared I think it would go indefinitely. Might need a little
polishing after ten years or so.
Darrel
do not archive
> I found it interesting that the
> polycarbonate is 30 times stronger than acrylic, at least that's the claim
> made. Thanks for the post. Do Not Archive.
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
Hi Clem,
This just says" None Tougher " w/ a blue Rhino under it. No numbers or
anything else on the piece I have.
Polycarbonate is definitely many times tougher than acrylic,but it is
quite soft and scratches easily. You have to be careful w/ it. Acrylic is
much harder but more brittle. Lots of trade-offs. Actually.some people don't
want to use polycarbonate because if you are in a crash you probably can't
kick out the windows. It is that tough.
Larry Huntley,Kitfox 4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>
> Larry:
>
> Very valuable info! In checking out the Hyzod polycarbonate, I find they
> make several different grades. It's unlikely you could remember which
grade
> you purchased 11 years ago, but perhaps the sheet with the rhino picture
on
> it contains that information??? I found it interesting that the
> polycarbonate is 30 times stronger than acrylic, at least that's the claim
> made. Thanks for the post. Do Not Archive.
>
> Clem Nichols
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems ,Hyzod,NOT Rhino
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq1@adelphia.net>
> >
> > Hi Don,et al,
> > The brand is Hyzod and not Rhino. My mistake. I feel pretty stupid.
> > Finally found a piece in the basement. It has a picture of a rhinoceros
on
> > the sheet. It is made by Sheffield Plastics in Sheffield,Mass.My
> > suggestion
> > and the picture is probably why you remembered it also.Here is a link to
> > their website: http://www.signweb.com/fabrication/cont/shapeshft6.htm
> > Mine is .060. I just cut off a corner of this 11 year old piece with
> > aviation snips. Just sheared it. The piece is about a 1.5" X 2" right
> > triangle. I drilled a hole in it w/ a 3/8" drill on a drill press. I was
> > not
> > careful. I practically punched it through w/ force to try to crack it. I
> > then bent it 180degrees at room temp ,that is ,doubled it over and it is
> > optically distorted where I bent it over but no cracks and no other
> > damage.
> > The problems that some have been talking about sound almost like
acrylic.
> > I
> > think both will crack in the holes unless drilled at least 1/16 larger
> > than
> > the bolt.
> > I would be very reluctant to use "Lexan" after everything I have heard.
> > Make sure you know what you have. Remember "LEXAN IS A BRAND NAME" not
> > type
> > of material. The material is POLYCARBONATE. It is made by many
> > manufacturers
> > and by many different brand names.Hyzod is one of them. I assume all
brand
> > names differ slightly in some way. Don,I know you know the
difference,but
> > often people don't and that could also be part of the problem.
> > Don, Please send me your snail address. I am putting this piece in an
> > envelope to send to you. I wish I could get you in my shop for a while(
> > The
> > Marys can check out the sheep and chickens! ;o)
> > Larry Huntley,Kitfox
> > 4-1200,EA81,Dundee,NY,USA
> >>
> >> Larry,
> >> I bought my last piece from a Plastics company that deals in
nothing
> > but
> >> Plastics. I might be wrong but I believe it was the Rhino brand.
Again,
> > I
> >> went from .093" to .063" to hopefully help prevent crazing. Mine is
> > already
> >> crazing after only a few months. The thinner material didn't help.
Mine
> > is also
> >> cracking at every bolt hole.
> >> Procedure in bending and drilling might be the problem but I
studied
> > all
> >> the web pages on Lexan and tried my best to follow their guidelines.
> > However,
> >> their guide lines call for "NO" drilling of holes for installation. I
> > talked
> >> to them on the phone a couple times and stated that holes are
necessary.
> >> They gave me all kinds of tips for drilling the holes but none worked.
> > I've even
> >> tried using a soldering iron to test making holes. Might work but
looks
> > bad.
> >> Tried using super glue to coat holes. The Lexan folks said super glue
> >> is
> >> too harsh for the material.
> >> My next approach is to build a fiberglass transition piece that
will
> > fit
> >> all the way across the windshield at the top front area. This will
> > encompass
> >> the compound bend area at the upper corners and therefore, the lexan
> >> won't
> >> have to do that bend. The windshield would be installed in two pieces
> >> (top/front) and have no compound bends. If this works, replacing
> > windshields would be
> >> a snap when needed and take away all the high expense of the LP's and
> > such.
> >> I've looked and don't feel a fiberglass transition piece would block
the
> > pilots
> >> view much at all. Would also give you the option to put smoked lexan
on
> > top
> >> and clear on the front.
> >>
> >> Always something to do
> >> Don Smythe
> >> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: windshield problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Comp User" <trebla@directinter.net>
The lines are telling you it is broken. It will come apart. These cracks are
caused by stress. Maby not all by landings. They will form from to tight of
a rivet or screw hole. Not enough room to move around. Really bad if kept
outside (hot cold). I put on an LP one piece tinted in 98. Easy. No cracks
yet.
Albert Smith
5TD
Message 33
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: STEPHEN ZAKRESKI <szakreski@shaw.ca>
-->On my Classic 4 (with a cowl provided by NSI), my Aero Plastic windscreen
fit perfectly -->without modification...interesting. Possibly the cowl shape
changed with the various -->models.
SteveZ
-->Calgary
Hi Steve.
You say that the cowl shape changed with the various models.
That could be, between a model 2, 3 and 4. I don't know, but what I do know
is that there could be great differences between the cowls of the same model.
Consider a couple of guys around the country building a model 4, all
purchased at the same time. Including the firewall forward package. What is not
standard is the way we fit and trim the fiberglass cowlings? I remember when my
cowlings arrived, I was itching to go ahead and fix these to the plane. But I
waited until the 912 arrived so that I could make sure the prop flange was
directly in the correct spot within the round hole. I still had a little difficulty
because I did not have the oil cooler installed at the time. Things you learn!!
Not too long ago there was discussion of the fitting of the cowl, one of the
guys had a problem getting the window to fit and I feel it was the flat stock
window. I think he had the fiberglass assembly fitted too close. On the other
hand, I see sometimes that the cowling is very close to the propeller.
So the ideal situation is to Fit the LP Aeroplastic's windshield and the
cowling at the same time, then you will have a real good marriage of components.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that I have some closeness of proximity of my
cowling, that the window matches!
Greetings. Eric Ashman
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: windshield problems |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jeff Smathers <jsmathers@cybcon.com>
For cutting the LP plastic I used a Heavy Duty Dremel type tool and
used a long but slightly conical tapered Dremel bit that was a tungsten
carbide abrasive. The edges are good and there is a good controllable
cut rate and medium rpm's. There is just a slight amount of heating which
helps "anneal" the edges and good plastic release as it is being cut.
The dremel bit was about $16. but was worth it. It lasted for the whole
process of cut-little and cut again...and then again. Sneak up on the fit
and don't force the windshield to fit. Just keep the nominal bend as you
recieved the windshield if possible. If you already have your cowl fitted
you will have to normalize the fit to that too.
Good luck and take your time ! Plan on 3 days of careful fit and cutting.
Jeff Smathers Molalla, OR. N456JT KF5 NSI EA-81 w/ CAP140 132 hrs TT
Rick wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
>
> I found the quality of the plastic very nice, however the fitting was
> definitely not a plug and play. Especially difficult fit at the top corners.
> Proceed with caution and IMHO a hot summer time install option only.
> Practice all cutting a drilling on some scraps, go slow and have some help.
> Be sure to have the top cowl on when fitting. I know it will look close but
> important point.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
> I am curious to hear from those that used the LP windshield and any comments
> on installation. I seem to remember from comments on the list at least two
> that cracked the windshield on installation and went for another one to
> finish the job - is my memory correct on this?
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Flier" <flier@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> > Yep, at a 100 deg though you're not really even approaching forming (or
> > crazing) temp. All it seems to do is to help stress relieve a little
> > apparently.
> >
> > By the time one goes to the trouble and expense I'd expect that the LP
> > formed windshield would be in order.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> > AlbertaIV@aol.com
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windshield problems
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 10/18/04 2:36:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > FLIER@sbcglobal.net writes:
> >
> > << You really need to heat and form it while hot. I put
> > my second windshield in on a day when the OAT was
> > around 100 deg. F and have found it's lasted a lot
> > longer (5 yrs) than the first one did (little over 2
> > yrs). The first one was installed in an OAT around
> > 70 deg F. So, I'll wait until the hottest day of
> > summer the next time I install one!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ted
> > >>
> > Ted,
> > I guess waiting until the hottest day of the year is only half way
> > approaching the problem. On hot days the humidity is usually high and
> does
> > not
> > permit proper drying prior to heat forming. It's always been one of my
> > "things
> > to do" to build an oven that would properly dry the Lexan before bringing
> it
> > up
> > to temp for heat forming. I'm not sure if an exact mold would be required
> > when doing the heat form portion. I think anything along this approach
> > would be
> > much better than simply bending the Lexan in "any" OAT condition????
> > If someone would build and oven that would dry the lexan and then heat
> > form it, they could make some good money just selling to the Kitfox list??
> >
> > Don Smythe
> > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
> >
> >
>
Message 35
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|
| From: | Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> (by way of Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>) |
| Subject: | Firewall Insulation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> (by way of Matt
Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>)
Hi all!
My firewall is currently thin stainless sheet, beautifully
polished on both sides. Do I need to insulate it? Would the insulation be
for sound or heat or both? What insulation would you recommend? (I checked
the archives and only came up with one thread about fiberfrax and iron
board coverings. The manual shows a quilted cover, but doesn't say what it
is or where to get it.)
Also, what kind of seal is best between the firewall and cowl. I
have a couple of places where I have a 1/2" gap. New firewall? Or should I
use something flexible to seal it? (I didn't build the plane, and couldn't
find anything specific in the book about a seal. Did I miss it?)
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done (thanks to Bob Ducar.)
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