Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:34 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
2. 03:34 AM - IVO PROP --- More Questions (Barry Huston)
3. 03:51 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (Ceashman@aol.com)
4. 03:56 AM - SV: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (Michel Verheughe)
5. 04:59 AM - SV: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (Michel Verheughe)
6. 05:02 AM - Re: IVO PROP --- More Questions (Gary Algate)
7. 05:20 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
8. 06:19 AM - Re: IVO PROP --- More Questions (DPREMGOOD@aol.com)
9. 07:00 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (Lowell Fitt)
10. 07:22 AM - parts (chad lively)
11. 10:29 AM - Re: IVO prop (jdmcbean)
12. 10:40 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (kurt schrader)
13. 11:04 AM - Re: IVO prop ---- const speed (John Oakley)
14. 11:20 AM - Re: IVO prop (customtrans@qwest.net)
15. 11:39 AM - Re: IVO prop ---- const speed (John Oakley)
16. 11:39 AM - [OFF TOPIC]: Fall in Norway! (Michel Verheughe)
17. 12:43 PM - Re: IVO prop ---- const speed (jdmcbean)
18. 01:08 PM - Re: IVO prop (Floran Higgins)
19. 01:37 PM - Re: IVO prop (jdmcbean)
20. 01:44 PM - Re: IVO prop ---- const speed (LeRoy staley)
21. 02:02 PM - Static RPM (Michael Gibbard)
22. 02:19 PM - Re: Static RPM (Aerobatics@aol.com)
23. 02:20 PM - Central California Relocation (jareds)
24. 02:26 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
25. 02:32 PM - Re: Static RPM (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
26. 02:35 PM - Re: Static RPM (Michel Verheughe)
27. 02:55 PM - Re: IVO prop (Clifford Begnaud)
28. 02:58 PM - 2 questions 914 Turbo and 582 (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
29. 03:14 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (Clem Nichols)
30. 03:41 PM - Re: 2 questions 914 Turbo and 582 (Jose M. Toro)
31. 03:43 PM - Re: Static RPM (Torgeir Mortensen)
32. 03:55 PM - Re: IVO prop ---- const speed (John Oakley)
33. 05:04 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (dave)
34. 05:53 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (Paul)
35. 06:41 PM - Re: SV: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Michel (Ceashman@aol.com)
36. 06:48 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Don (Ceashman@aol.com)
37. 07:03 PM - Kitfox IV going on a diet (Jimmie Blackwell)
38. 07:12 PM - Re: IVO prop ---- const speed (jdmcbean)
39. 07:15 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell (Ceashman@aol.com)
40. 08:29 PM - Re: Fuel filters (Jose M. Toro)
41. 08:40 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl (Marc Arseneault)
42. 08:56 PM - Re: IVO prop ---- const speed (kurt schrader)
43. 11:29 PM - Re: Fuel filters (r.thomas@za.pwc.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/25/04 6:48:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Ceashman@aol.com writes:
<< at from the
engine. Keeping the motor cooler. You do not want
to paint the inside white.
Greetings. Eric Ashman >>
Just curious, I painted mine with the two part white epoxy. Why do I not
want to paint it white? It will show oil drips and such but cleans up fairly
well. That's why I decided to paint it white. I want to see any oil or gas
leaks.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 2
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| Subject: | IVO PROP --- More Questions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Barry Huston" <barryhuston@adelphia.net>
I have recently installed amphibious floats on my Model IV --- 912 UL.
With two on board and half fuel am still "Fat".
Currently I have a 68", Wood 3 Blade, ground adjustable Prop that seems to
be set properly. At 70 F , 1000 ft, the climb rate is about 300 fpm dual and under
500 fpm solo.
---- Is the IVO in flight adjustable " Ultralight" Model acceptable or
is the 72" , 3 Blade "Medium" Model the right choice?
---- Should the Constant Speed electronic governor feature be added to the
Medium Model ?
---- What can I expect for climb rate improvements?
---- My 1993 manual does not spec a Gear Box Model , but states that
it has a 2.27 gear reduction?
Thanks
Barry
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
<< at from the
engine. Keeping the motor cooler. You do not want
to paint the inside
white..........
->Just curious, I painted mine with the two part white epoxy. Why do I not
want to paint it white? It will show oil drips and such but cleans up fairly
well. That's why I decided to paint it white. I want to see any oil or gas
leaks.
Don Smythe
->N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Hi Don. In the summer. If you ever touch a car surface you will find out
that the white car, you can leave your hand on. The black car, you will have to
let go after about 2 seconds. That is because the black car can be 180 degrees
F. Depend on how much sun is falling on the surface of the car.
The same with the inside of the engine cowl. The white color is reflecting
the heat back to the engine. The black will be absorbing the engine heat.
The absorbed heat will transfer through the cowl and be removed with the
airflow on the outside.
I read that it a airplane magazine a long time ago, inside black and outside
white is the ideal situation for keeping an engine cool. If everything else is
OK with the installation.
Greetings. Eric.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> Just curious, I painted mine with the two part white epoxy. Why do I not
> want to paint it white? It will show oil drips and such but cleans up fairly
> well. That's why I decided to paint it white. I want to see any oil or gas
> leaks.
Interesting. I was thinking to paint the inside of my new Skyfox cowling white
for the same reason, Don.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
> From: Ceashman@aol.com
> I read that it a airplane magazine a long time ago, inside black and outside
> white is the ideal situation for keeping an engine cool. If everything else is
> OK with the installation.
OK, how about this, guys:
- Top cowling inside painted black. Will absorb rising heat.
- Bottom cowling inside painted white. Will show oil and gas stains.
- Engine mount painted white. Will show cracks and stains.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 6
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| Subject: | IVO PROP --- More Questions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Barry
I have the Rotax 582 (65Hp) and on Zenair straight floats I climb at 450-500
fpm (Pilot only an approx 14 gall gas). With two I am down to 300 ft/min. I
also have the IVO 2 blade Medium In-flight adjustable.
Without the IVO I was down to 200 ft / min with a passenger.
I originally had the 3 blade Ultralight IFA prop but had vibration problems
due to the harmonics between my 3:1 gear ratio and 3 bladed prop.
IVO suggested I go to the much more sturdy "Medium" 2 blade IFA and that
solved all of my problems. I gained a couple of mph in cruise with the 2
bladed prop and probably lost a little climb but it's hardly noticeable.
One thing that you have to be careful with the two blade prop because the
IVO blades vary in thickness at the root where they are sandwiched between
the drive plate and the electric motor that "sticks out the front". If the
blades vary too much it causes the electric motor plate to "tilt" and this
means the motor runs "out of round" setting up vibration. When you order the
package tell them you want the blades matched not only for weight but also
for thickness at the root.
Gary Algate
Lite2/582
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
With two on board and half fuel am still "Fat".
Currently I have a 68", Wood 3 Blade, ground adjustable Prop that seems
to be set properly. At 70 F , 1000 ft, the climb rate is about 300 fpm dual
and under
500 fpm solo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/26/04 3:52:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Ceashman@aol.com writes:
<< I read that it a airplane magazine a long time ago, inside black and
outside
white is the ideal situation for keeping an engine cool. If everything else
is
OK with the installation.
Greetings. Eric. >>
I guess those are good arguments for painting black... White works to show
oil and gas drips... I don't think the watercooled engine cares ("as much")
what color the insides are? On the case of the Jabiru (air cooled), I think I
would go Black and get all the help I could.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: IVO PROP --- More Questions |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: DPREMGOOD@aol.com
Barry,
My understanding is that a wooden prop on floats is a no no.
If any waterspray hits that prop, it is like kicking up stones. It will do
damage to your prop.
As for the IVO, there are many more people on the list that can answer that
question better than I could.
Take care,
Doug Remoundos
Classic IV
Montreal, Canada
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Interesting, My only thought here is if you have no cooling problem, to
maybe consider other issues. First, does a long time ago mean an aluminum
cowl. Our fiberglass cowls are easily tweaked with a hot air gun to make
them fit better. I wonder how constant heat absorption - black - will
affect the integrity of the cowl. Mine is unpainted, but if I were to paint
it, it would be white.
I think there was a discussion years ago on this subject.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> > From: Ceashman@aol.com
> > I read that it a airplane magazine a long time ago, inside black and
outside
> > white is the ideal situation for keeping an engine cool. If everything
else is
> > OK with the installation.
>
> OK, how about this, guys:
> - Top cowling inside painted black. Will absorb rising heat.
> - Bottom cowling inside painted white. Will show oil and gas stains.
> - Engine mount painted white. Will show cracks and stains.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
>
Message 10
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "chad lively" <chadl@compu.net>
I have alot of 582/583 parts for sale including, GSC prop, e-gearbox, rotary valves,
CDI, rave valves, exhaust, oil injection , mount for IV-1200, and more.
Contact me off line if interested
Message 11
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not
fit both engines.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
> The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are
> considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim
> accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements
>
> Gary A
> Lite2/582
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> People,
> I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done
> rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the
> powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up
> or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric
> adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the
> kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the
> 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks.
> <<<<<<<<<<
> steve a
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
I have to agree with Lowell. Engines can take a lot
of heat. Aluminum cowls can take up to 1100 degrees
before weakening. But fiberglass is good only to 160
or so. Maybe 220 for high temp fiberglass. You don't
see any black fiberglass planes flying about for that
reason. Even if you have cooling air in flight, you
may vaccuform your fiberglass cowl around your hot
engine after shutdown if it is black inside.
I put reflective heat protection above my engine's hot
parts on my cowl and it still gets hot after shutdown.
I also open the access panels to let the heat out in
the summer.
I'd say, protect the cowl with light colors and the
engine with good airflow under any fiberglass cowl.
Kurt S.
--- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@inreach.com> wrote:
> Interesting, My only thought here is if you have no
> cooling problem, to maybe consider other issues.
> First, does a long time ago mean an aluminum
> cowl. Our fiberglass cowls are easily tweaked with
> a hot air gun to make them fit better.
> I wonder how constant heat absorption - black - will
> affect the integrity of the cowl. Mine is
> unpainted, but if I were to paint
> it, it would be white.
>
> I think there was a discussion years ago on this
> subject.
>
> Lowell
__________________________________
Message 13
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| Subject: | IVO prop ---- const speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
Hi Jim,
have you used or know of the new constant speed controller ivo is providing
for the electronic prop.
I am looking for a new prop that may be the answer.
John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not
fit both engines.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
> The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are
> considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim
> accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements
>
> Gary A
> Lite2/582
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> People,
> I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done
> rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the
> powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up
> or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric
> adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the
> kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the
> 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks.
> <<<<<<<<<<
> steve a
>
>
Message 14
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
The difference I've seen on the hubs on the engine is the centers, mine has
the smaller diameter hole or protrusion with threads on the hub. I've seen
even on another 912ul that the center is bigger and the holes are not
threaded.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.comh
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not
fit both engines.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
> The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are
> considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim
> accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements
>
> Gary A
> Lite2/582
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> People,
> I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done
> rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the
> powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up
> or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric
> adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the
> kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the
> 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks.
> <<<<<<<<<<
> steve a
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | IVO prop ---- const speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
sorry,
ivo prop question is for John McBean
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Oakley
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
Hi Jim,
have you used or know of the new constant speed controller ivo is providing
for the electronic prop.
I am looking for a new prop that may be the answer.
John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not
fit both engines.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
> The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are
> considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim
> accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements
>
> Gary A
> Lite2/582
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> People,
> I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done
> rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the
> powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up
> or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric
> adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the
> kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the
> 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks.
> <<<<<<<<<<
> steve a
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | [OFF TOPIC]: Fall in Norway! |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
EMAproducts@aol.com wrote:
> Michel, Photo looks very similar to our fall here in the NW US, except the
> fog & drizzle has been heavier!
He, he! That the thing about your country that stretches - as the song says -
from the redwood forests to the gulfstream waters; it covers all kinds of
climate, terrain and vegetation, Elbie. I guess, wherever you come from, you
can find somewhere a place in the US that looks like home.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 17
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| Subject: | IVO prop ---- const speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
John,
I have not used the controller although I have plans to try it. I only
know of one other that has used it very early on and there were some issues
with the sensitivity of it.... Apparently it was constantly trying to adjust
and not allowing for much variation.... I have been told that this has been
fixed.
All in all I have been very satisfied with the IVO and that is the main
reason I became a dealer for them.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Oakley
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
Hi Jim,
have you used or know of the new constant speed controller ivo is providing
for the electronic prop.
I am looking for a new prop that may be the answer.
John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not
fit both engines.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
> The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are
> considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim
> accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements
>
> Gary A
> Lite2/582
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> People,
> I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done
> rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the
> powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up
> or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric
> adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the
> kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the
> 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks.
> <<<<<<<<<<
> steve a
>
>
Message 18
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
When I decided to replace my 912 UL engine with a 912 ULS , Lockwood told me
that the prop from the 912 UL engine would fit.
After I installed the 912 ULS I tried to install the prop from the 912 UL.
It would not fit.
I called GSC and they told me that the prop flanges were different and I
would need another prop.
I bought another GSC prop to fit the 912 ULS. the prop hub is definitely
different and the blades are quite a bit wider.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS
>
> Blue Skies
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
>
> The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not
> fit both engines.
> Floran H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
> >
> > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are
> > considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim
> > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements
> >
> > Gary A
> > Lite2/582
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >
> > People,
> > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done
> > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the
> > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set
up
> > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric
> > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the
> > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the
> > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks.
> > <<<<<<<<<<
> > steve a
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Interesting... I'll have to keep an eye on that... I have installed the same
prop on two different engines.. I have seen physical differences with the
center part of the flange but the mounting holes were the same. I have
heard that the blades on the GSC were different from the 80 to the 100....
Maybe they had a different hub as well. Not true for the IVO.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
When I decided to replace my 912 UL engine with a 912 ULS , Lockwood told me
that the prop from the 912 UL engine would fit.
After I installed the 912 ULS I tried to install the prop from the 912 UL.
It would not fit.
I called GSC and they told me that the prop flanges were different and I
would need another prop.
I bought another GSC prop to fit the 912 ULS. the prop hub is definitely
different and the blades are quite a bit wider.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS
>
> Blue Skies
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
>
> The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not
> fit both engines.
> Floran H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
> >
> > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are
> > considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim
> > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements
> >
> > Gary A
> > Lite2/582
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >
> > People,
> > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done
> > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the
> > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set
up
> > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric
> > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the
> > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the
> > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks.
> > <<<<<<<<<<
> > steve a
> >
> >
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | IVO prop ---- const speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: LeRoy staley <itis50@yahoo.com>
How about sending me some info on the const speed ivo
prop.
LeRoy
--- jdmcbean <jdmcbean@cableone.net> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
> <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> John,
> I have not used the controller although I
> have plans to try it. I only
> know of one other that has used it very early on and
> there were some issues
> with the sensitivity of it.... Apparently it was
> constantly trying to adjust
> and not allowing for much variation.... I have been
> told that this has been
> fixed.
>
> All in all I have been very satisfied with the IVO
> and that is the main
> reason I became a dealer for them.
>
> Blue Skies
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of John Oakley
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley"
> <joakley@ida.net>
>
> Hi Jim,
> have you used or know of the new constant speed
> controller ivo is providing
> for the electronic prop.
> I am looking for a new prop that may be the answer.
>
> John Oakley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of jdmcbean
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean"
> <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>
> Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL
> or 912 ULS
>
> Blue Skies
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On
> Behalf Of Floran Higgins
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins"
> <CliffH@outdrs.net>
>
> The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS.
> The same prop will not
> fit both engines.
> Floran H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate"
> <algate@attglobal.net>
> >
> > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice
> especially if you are
> > considering engine changes as the variable pitch
> allows you to trim
> > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements
> >
> > Gary A
> > Lite2/582
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >
> > People,
> > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox
> when I get done
> > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does
> it perform next to the
> > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it
> before. Is it hard to set up
> > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for
> it. I want the electric
> > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll
> be using. I have the
> > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question,
> if I were to go to the
> > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop.
> thanks.
> > <<<<<<<<<<
> > steve a
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 21
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Gibbard" <mike@mikegibbard.com>
What is the static rpm for a 3 blade wood prop with a Rotex 582 on a Model 1 supposed
to be? My instructor asked me. Mike
Michael Gibbard
888-544-5241 Toll Free
231-676-3788 Cell
mike1@mikegibbard.com E-mail
http://www.mikegibbard.com/index2.htm
Message 22
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com
I get about 5,900 and at 60mph climb, its about 6,200
on an IVO....
KF 2 Blue head Model 99 582
Dave
Message 23
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| Subject: | Central California Relocation |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds <jareds@verizon.net>
I have an opportunity to relocate to the San Francisco or central CA
area and was wondering if there are any listers in the area. My move
to the DC area consisted of finding a friendly small town airport to fly
out of and am hoping to get a bit more insight prior to a move.
If any of you have some insight on that area please contact me offlist
as I will greatly appreciate it.
Thanks
Jared Schott
Do Not Archive!!
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/26/04 10:42:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes:
<< have to agree with Lowell. Engines can take a lot
of heat. Aluminum cowls can take up to 1100 degrees
before weakening. But fiberglass is good only to 160
o >>
All good points. I have to take back my comment on painting black if
installing an aircooled engine. Based on all the above, I'd go white no matter
what
engine.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Do Not Archive
Message 25
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/26/04 2:04:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mike@mikegibbard.com writes:
<< What is the static rpm for a 3 blade wood prop with a Rotex 582 on a Model
1 supposed to be? My instructor asked me. Mike
Michael Gibbard >>
Michael,
My memory is failing but I seem to remember about 6100 static on the
ground with the wooden GSC. Hopefully someone else will chime in with a better
memory. Either way, once airborne, you want close to 6800 full throttle in
level flight. The ground number is only a ballpark figure.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 26
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Michael Gibbard wrote:
> What is the static rpm for a 3 blade wood prop with a Rotex 582 on a Model 1
supposed
> to be? My instructor asked me. Mike
We are told to pitch for a static RPM of 6,200, Mike.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 27
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" <shoeless@barefootpilot.com>
Some of the early Rotax 912 engines had a different bolt pattern than the
current ones. That may be the problem.
Cliff
>
> Interesting... I'll have to keep an eye on that... I have installed the
> same
> prop on two different engines.. I have seen physical differences with the
> center part of the flange but the mounting holes were the same. I have
> heard that the blades on the GSC were different from the 80 to the 100....
> Maybe they had a different hub as well. Not true for the IVO.
>
> Blue Skies
> John & Debra McBean
> www.sportplanellc.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
>
> When I decided to replace my 912 UL engine with a 912 ULS , Lockwood told
> me
> that the prop from the 912 UL engine would fit.
> After I installed the 912 ULS I tried to install the prop from the 912 UL.
> It would not fit.
> I called GSC and they told me that the prop flanges were different and I
> would need another prop.
> I bought another GSC prop to fit the 912 ULS. the prop hub is definitely
> different and the blades are quite a bit wider.
> Floran H.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
>>
>> Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS
>>
>> Blue Skies
>> John & Debra McBean
>> www.sportplanellc.com
>> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran
>> Higgins
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
>>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
>>
>> The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will
>> not
>> fit both engines.
>> Floran H.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
>>
>>
>> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>> >
>> > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are
>> > considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim
>> > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements
>> >
>> > Gary A
>> > Lite2/582
>> >
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >
>> > People,
>> > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done
>> > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to
>> > the
>> > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set
> up
>> > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the
>> > electric
>> > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have
>> > the
>> > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to
>> > the
>> > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks.
>> > <<<<<<<<<<
>> > steve a
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | 2 questions 914 Turbo and 582 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
First question, does anyone have the honest to goodness weight of the Rotax
914 Turbo (ready to fly).
Second question, I'm thinking of changing the airfilter on my 582 from the
dual element to two single elements. What are the drawbacks from doing this?
I
have a feeling that the dual unit causes some tension problems to the carb
sockets. Not to mention, the single units seem lighter than one dual and would
give less weight hanging off the carbs.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Hey, gang:
Just a quick thought on this black/white cowl business. One poster was
certainly correct about the black car and the white car sitting out in the
sun. I don't think that necessarily carries over to inside the cowl of our
planes, however. In the car example the radiant energy is in the form of
visible light which obviously the white car reflects and the black car
doesn't. Inside the cowl, however, the radiant energy from the engine is
in the infrared spectrum, so it's probably not going to make any difference
what color it is from the heat transfer point of view. I suspect that the
surface of the white car would get just as hot from hot air blowing on it as
would the black car. Just my two cents worth. Blast me if I'm wrong.
Clem Nichols
Do Not Archive
From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> I have to agree with Lowell. Engines can take a lot
> of heat. Aluminum cowls can take up to 1100 degrees
> before weakening. But fiberglass is good only to 160
> or so. Maybe 220 for high temp fiberglass. You don't
> see any black fiberglass planes flying about for that
> reason. Even if you have cooling air in flight, you
> may vaccuform your fiberglass cowl around your hot
> engine after shutdown if it is black inside.
>
> I put reflective heat protection above my engine's hot
> parts on my cowl and it still gets hot after shutdown.
> I also open the access panels to let the heat out in
> the summer.
>
> I'd say, protect the cowl with light colors and the
> engine with good airflow under any fiberglass cowl.
>
> Kurt S.
> --- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@inreach.com> wrote:
>
>> Interesting, My only thought here is if you have no
>> cooling problem, to maybe consider other issues.
>> First, does a long time ago mean an aluminum
>> cowl. Our fiberglass cowls are easily tweaked with
>> a hot air gun to make them fit better.
>> I wonder how constant heat absorption - black - will
>> affect the integrity of the cowl. Mine is
>> unpainted, but if I were to paint
>> it, it would be white.
>>
>> I think there was a discussion years ago on this
>> subject.
>>
>> Lowell
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: 2 questions 914 Turbo and 582 |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Don:
I switched 1 year ago from a dual filter to two non-tapered K&N filters. The reason
was that, in my 582, the rear carb is closer to the engine that the front
one, and would not fit properly in the dual filter (since the sockets are ok,
I wonder if this is normal). I can't tell a difference in terms of performance,
but now that each filter fits properly, it gives me peace of mind.
Jose
AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
First question, does anyone have the honest to goodness weight of the Rotax
914 Turbo (ready to fly).
Second question, I'm thinking of changing the airfilter on my 582 from the
dual element to two single elements. What are the drawbacks from doing this? I
have a feeling that the dual unit causes some tension problems to the carb
sockets. Not to mention, the single units seem lighter than one dual and would
give less weight hanging off the carbs.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
Message 31
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
Hi Folks,
Just a small input from the (not that cold) high North.
I run my 532 with the IVO prop. Since I'll have to keep the inerta below 3
kg/cm2, this is why my prop. max dia. is 66", but I'm safe this way..
Well, the IVO prop. is the best investment I ever spent on my Kitfox -so
far.
This prop. is just superb.. Well- my opinion.
Did you know that, the IVO. use the "same" technique as the modern helos...
But, the importance task to do here, is the maintenance, -keep it torqued
as required -at required intervalls.
And again, my best investment...
Static ground (on my mod II) RPM is 6200.
In the air, with full power I'll get 6800 RPM -sharp.
Cheers
Torgeir.
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:32:18 EDT, <AlbertaIV@aol.com> wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 10/26/04 2:04:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> mike@mikegibbard.com writes:
>
> << What is the static rpm for a 3 blade wood prop with a Rotex 582 on a
> Model
> 1 supposed to be? My instructor asked me. Mike
> Michael Gibbard >>
>
> Michael,
> My memory is failing but I seem to remember about 6100 static on the
> ground with the wooden GSC. Hopefully someone else will chime in with a
> better
> memory. Either way, once airborne, you want close to 6800 full throttle
> in
> level flight. The ground number is only a ballpark figure.
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 32
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| Subject: | IVO prop ---- const speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
John McBean,
I have a fox 4 speedster 912ul. I flew with a gsc prop for the test hours
then went to
a nsi cap. too much work load for my wife. need something simple but not
ready to
lose performance. we had setup a constant speed control adapted for it from
the rc hobby, but
also need to restrict reverse for her. Maybe new cuffs, an overhaul, humm ,
back to a new prop.
a decent speed control would make a easy decision.
John Oakley
Idaho falls, id
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
John,
I have not used the controller although I have plans to try it. I
only
know of one other that has used it very early on and there were some issues
with the sensitivity of it.... Apparently it was constantly trying to adjust
and not allowing for much variation.... I have been told that this has been
fixed.
All in all I have been very satisfied with the IVO and that is the main
reason I became a dealer for them.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Oakley
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
Hi Jim,
have you used or know of the new constant speed controller ivo is providing
for the electronic prop.
I am looking for a new prop that may be the answer.
John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not
fit both engines.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
> The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are
> considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim
> accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements
>
> Gary A
> Lite2/582
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> People,
> I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done
> rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the
> powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up
> or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric
> adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the
> kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the
> 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks.
> <<<<<<<<<<
> steve a
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Clem,
I disagreee, Black will remain a heat absorber albeit "radiant heat from
inside".
picture yourself in front of a Radiat heater in a shop with a black shop
coat on and then a silver coat .
which one would absorb more heat ?
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>
> Hey, gang:
>
> Just a quick thought on this black/white cowl business. One poster was
> certainly correct about the black car and the white car sitting out in the
> sun. I don't think that necessarily carries over to inside the cowl of
our
> planes, however. In the car example the radiant energy is in the form of
> visible light which obviously the white car reflects and the black car
> doesn't. Inside the cowl, however, the radiant energy from the engine is
> in the infrared spectrum, so it's probably not going to make any
difference
> what color it is from the heat transfer point of view. I suspect that the
> surface of the white car would get just as hot from hot air blowing on it
as
> would the black car. Just my two cents worth. Blast me if I'm wrong.
>
> Clem Nichols
> Do Not Archive
> From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
> > <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
> >
> > I have to agree with Lowell. Engines can take a lot
> > of heat. Aluminum cowls can take up to 1100 degrees
> > before weakening. But fiberglass is good only to 160
> > or so. Maybe 220 for high temp fiberglass. You don't
> > see any black fiberglass planes flying about for that
> > reason. Even if you have cooling air in flight, you
> > may vaccuform your fiberglass cowl around your hot
> > engine after shutdown if it is black inside.
> >
> > I put reflective heat protection above my engine's hot
> > parts on my cowl and it still gets hot after shutdown.
> > I also open the access panels to let the heat out in
> > the summer.
> >
> > I'd say, protect the cowl with light colors and the
> > engine with good airflow under any fiberglass cowl.
> >
> > Kurt S.
> > --- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@inreach.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Interesting, My only thought here is if you have no
> >> cooling problem, to maybe consider other issues.
> >> First, does a long time ago mean an aluminum
> >> cowl. Our fiberglass cowls are easily tweaked with
> >> a hot air gun to make them fit better.
> >> I wonder how constant heat absorption - black - will
> >> affect the integrity of the cowl. Mine is
> >> unpainted, but if I were to paint
> >> it, it would be white.
> >>
> >> I think there was a discussion years ago on this
> >> subject.
> >>
> >> Lowell
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
Hi Clem,
Maybe the following will clear up the coatings issue.
One can walk thru the parking lot on a sunny day with your IR temperature gauge
and see the differences for various colors. However the wavelength is solar
and this visible spectrum is very specific. If one wants to know about the temps
of things seeing hot engines it is more difficult. Since the engine compartments
are closed.
The facts are that coatings absorb/reflect as a function of the wavelength of
the source. An example is shiny aluminum which is an excellent reflector of the
IR wavelength coming from a warm/hot engine. A flat white coating does not reflect
or absorb much IR. Other light colors are similar. It is true that the
cowl will still get hot due to heat conducted fromthe hot air, but this is not
much of an issue since lots of cool air is present when the plane is moving.
Dark colors are like flat black Are excellent absorbers & emitters for both solar
(visible) and IR. Gold on the other hand absorbs IR and reflects solar wavelength.
Spacecraft utilize these properties for passive thermal control on various
parts of the craft.
Rutan specifies white coating on his composite planes to limit the temperature
which can cause degrading the strength. I have seen some composite planes painted
light blue and pale yellow. Stripes of bold colors in non structural places
are also used.
In my mind if one wants a smooth surface inside the fiberglass cowl I would choose
gloss white. Then if the cowl gets to hot in localized area make a shiny
aluminum heat shield or duct cool air flow for temperature control. Use your IR
temperature gauge to check for hot spots on the cowl after an hard run.
My choice for the structural parts firewall forward would be the same gloss white
in order to keep them cool and stronger. I would use a brittle paint so cracks
would not be hidden on these structural parts. Powder coat is not as good
as an enamel due to the stiffness of the coating. The urethane coatings like
Imron are very flexible and not recommended.
Regards, Paul
===============
At 5:14 PM -0500 10/26/04, Clem Nichols wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
>
>Hey, gang:
>
>Just a quick thought on this black/white cowl business. One poster was
>certainly correct about the black car and the white car sitting out in the
>sun. I don't think that necessarily carries over to inside the cowl of our
>planes, however. In the car example the radiant energy is in the form of
>visible light which obviously the white car reflects and the black car
>doesn't. Inside the cowl, however, the radiant energy from the engine is
>in the infrared spectrum, so it's probably not going to make any difference
>what color it is from the heat transfer point of view. I suspect that the
>surface of the white car would get just as hot from hot air blowing on it as
>would the black car. Just my two cents worth. Blast me if I'm wrong.
>
>Clem Nichols
>Do Not Archive
>From: "kurt schrader" <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa
>
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
>> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>>
>> I have to agree with Lowell. Engines can take a lot
>> of heat. Aluminum cowls can take up to 1100 degrees
>> before weakening. But fiberglass is good only to 160
>> or so. Maybe 220 for high temp fiberglass. You don't
>> see any black fiberglass planes flying about for that
>> reason. Even if you have cooling air in flight, you
>> may vaccuform your fiberglass cowl around your hot
>> engine after shutdown if it is black inside.
>>
>> I put reflective heat protection above my engine's hot
>> parts on my cowl and it still gets hot after shutdown.
>> I also open the access panels to let the heat out in
>> the summer.
>>
>> I'd say, protect the cowl with light colors and the
>> engine with good airflow under any fiberglass cowl.
> >
>> Kurt S.
>> --- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@inreach.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting, My only thought here is if you have no
>>> cooling problem, to maybe consider other issues.
>>> First, does a long time ago mean an aluminum
>>> cowl. Our fiberglass cowls are easily tweaked with
>>> a hot air gun to make them fit better.
>>> I wonder how constant heat absorption - black - will
>>> affect the integrity of the cowl. Mine is
>>> unpainted, but if I were to paint
>>> it, it would be white.
>>>
>>> I think there was a discussion years ago on this
>>> subject.
>>>
>>> Lowell
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Michel |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
OK, how about this, guys:
- Top cowling inside painted black. Will absorb rising heat.
- Bottom cowling inside painted white. Will show oil and gas stains.
- Engine mount painted white. Will show cracks and stains.
->Cheers,
->Michel
Michel.
Sounds like the perfect situation. Small oil leaks, oil drips down. Can find
the general area.
Of course, when the sh*@ hits the fan. it's difficult to find out where it
comes from.
I like the idea of the engine mount painted white, for the reasons you gave.
Greetings. Eric.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Don |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
--I don't think the watercooled engine cares ("as much")
--what color the insides are? On the case of the Jabiru (air cooled), I
think I
--would go Black and get all the help I could.
--Don Smythe
--N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Good point Don.
You are probably right. The water takes the heat outside to the radiator, to
do it's thing.
There would be a great difference with pure air cooled motors
Cheers. Eric.
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Kitfox IV going on a diet |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
I am going to shed some pounds off my plane and will be removing several items
from the panel such as a stereo system and loran. Looking for ideas on ways to
fill in the panel holes and keep it looking good.
Thank you.
Jimmie
Anyone looking for an Apollo Loran and Kenwood stereo system let me know. I am
skeptical about their condition, but they will be cheap.
Message 38
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| Subject: | IVO prop ---- const speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
John,
The IVO does not go into reverse.. so that would not be an issue... I'll
do
some checking on the constant speed for the IVO...
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Oakley
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
John McBean,
I have a fox 4 speedster 912ul. I flew with a gsc prop for the test hours
then went to
a nsi cap. too much work load for my wife. need something simple but not
ready to
lose performance. we had setup a constant speed control adapted for it from
the rc hobby, but
also need to restrict reverse for her. Maybe new cuffs, an overhaul, humm ,
back to a new prop.
a decent speed control would make a easy decision.
John Oakley
Idaho falls, id
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
John,
I have not used the controller although I have plans to try it. I
only
know of one other that has used it very early on and there were some issues
with the sensitivity of it.... Apparently it was constantly trying to adjust
and not allowing for much variation.... I have been told that this has been
fixed.
All in all I have been very satisfied with the IVO and that is the main
reason I became a dealer for them.
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Oakley
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
Hi Jim,
have you used or know of the new constant speed controller ivo is providing
for the electronic prop.
I am looking for a new prop that may be the answer.
John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@cableone.net>
Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS
Blue Skies
John & Debra McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" <CliffH@outdrs.net>
The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not
fit both engines.
Floran H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" <algate@attglobal.net>
>
> The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are
> considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim
> accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements
>
> Gary A
> Lite2/582
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> People,
> I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done
> rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the
> powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up
> or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric
> adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the
> kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the
> 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks.
> <<<<<<<<<<
> steve a
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
-Interesting, My only thought here is if you have no cooling problem, to
-maybe consider other issues. First, does a long time ago mean an aluminum
-cowl. Our fiberglass cowls are easily tweaked with a hot air gun to make
-them fit better. I wonder how constant heat absorption - black - will
-affect the integrity of the cowl. Mine is unpainted, but if I were to paint
-it, it would be white.
Hi Lowell.
A long time ago was about 3 to 4 years. The article was either in Sport
Aviation, Kitplanes or the AOPA magazine.
It probably showed an aluminum cowl. The theme was on cooling the engine only.
I cannot see constant heat affecting the cowl as there are no strategic
stress items involved. But I also understand that a composite aircraft should be
painted white as there are strategic stress items like the wing needs to keep
stuck together.
My Classic IV is dark blue on the outside and gets pretty hot in the summer
when standing on the ramp (a good 180 degrees F.) I see no breakdown so far.
Other than the fine gelcoat cracks that happened during construction, You know,
when you are wrestling with this sloppy thing especially the times you are by
yourself. This when I was heating it up and installing the lower cowl.
Greetings. Eric.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel filters |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Gill:
I know of at least two occurrences of failures of those filters. I would not
use those filters. Engine failure + in-flight fire = undesiderable combo.
Jose
Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque
Hey all Canadian listers,
Can you tell me where I could find the GLASS PUROLATOR FILTERS in Canada??? Thanks
Gil Levesque
C-IGVL
Still alive and flyin!!!!
Gil
---------------------------------
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" <northernultralights@hotmail.com>
My personal opinion is to leave the inside of the cowling unpainted like most of
us have done and inspect for leaks. You have to remove the top cowling to do
a proper pre-flight inspection before every flightand from my experience a leak
is very noticeable on my unpainted cowling.Why add the weight of more paint
and all the other issues?
Best Regards,
Marc Arseneault
Ontario Canada
Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and
get the first two months FREE*
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | IVO prop ---- const speed |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
John,
Did you say that you made a constant speed controller
for the NSI CAP? I had thought of the same thing, but
figured it was too slow to change and would need
slower throttle movements. What was your experience?
Did it work OK?
Mine wouldn't go into reverse unless I was at low rpm,
like after landing. Yours should have been the same.
Kurt S.
--- John Oakley <joakley@ida.net> wrote:
> John McBean,
> I have a fox 4 speedster 912ul. I flew with a gsc
> prop for the test hours then went to
> a nsi cap. too much work load for my wife. need
> something simple but not ready to
> lose performance. we had setup a constant speed
> control adapted for it from the rc hobby, but
> also need to restrict reverse for her. Maybe new
> cuffs, an overhaul, humm, back to a new prop.
> a decent speed control would make a easy decision.
>
> John Oakley
> Idaho falls, id
__________________________________
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel filters |
07:28:25,
Serialize complete at 27/10/2004 07:28:25
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: r.thomas@za.pwc.com
Hi Gill
If you are referring to filters similar to this
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/resources/images/list/fse_puro.jpg then:
A bunch of us used these filters. Out of about 5 of us, 4 failed within a
short space of time. Luckily mine was the 5th and I removed it before I
picked up any problems.
The problem appears to be the seals at each end between the glass and
housing. They seem to perish quickly and the filter begins to suck in air
and leads to fuel starvation.
Regards
Roger
"Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
27/10/2004 05:28 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc
Subject
Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel filters
Size: 5 Kb
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro@yahoo.com>
Gill:
I know of at least two occurrences of failures of those filters. I would
not use those filters. Engine failure + in-flight fire = undesiderable
combo.
Jose
Gill Levesque <canpilot03@yahoo.ca> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque
Hey all Canadian listers,
Can you tell me where I could find the GLASS PUROLATOR FILTERS in
Canada??? Thanks
Gil Levesque
C-IGVL
Still alive and flyin!!!!
Gil
---------------------------------
Jose M. Toro, P.E.
Kitfox II/582
"A slow flight in the Caribbean..."
---------------------------------
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