---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/26/04: 43 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:34 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 2. 03:34 AM - IVO PROP --- More Questions (Barry Huston) 3. 03:51 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (Ceashman@aol.com) 4. 03:56 AM - SV: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (Michel Verheughe) 5. 04:59 AM - SV: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (Michel Verheughe) 6. 05:02 AM - Re: IVO PROP --- More Questions (Gary Algate) 7. 05:20 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 8. 06:19 AM - Re: IVO PROP --- More Questions (DPREMGOOD@aol.com) 9. 07:00 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (Lowell Fitt) 10. 07:22 AM - parts (chad lively) 11. 10:29 AM - Re: IVO prop (jdmcbean) 12. 10:40 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (kurt schrader) 13. 11:04 AM - Re: IVO prop ---- const speed (John Oakley) 14. 11:20 AM - Re: IVO prop (customtrans@qwest.net) 15. 11:39 AM - Re: IVO prop ---- const speed (John Oakley) 16. 11:39 AM - [OFF TOPIC]: Fall in Norway! (Michel Verheughe) 17. 12:43 PM - Re: IVO prop ---- const speed (jdmcbean) 18. 01:08 PM - Re: IVO prop (Floran Higgins) 19. 01:37 PM - Re: IVO prop (jdmcbean) 20. 01:44 PM - Re: IVO prop ---- const speed (LeRoy staley) 21. 02:02 PM - Static RPM (Michael Gibbard) 22. 02:19 PM - Re: Static RPM (Aerobatics@aol.com) 23. 02:20 PM - Central California Relocation (jareds) 24. 02:26 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 25. 02:32 PM - Re: Static RPM (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 26. 02:35 PM - Re: Static RPM (Michel Verheughe) 27. 02:55 PM - Re: IVO prop (Clifford Begnaud) 28. 02:58 PM - 2 questions 914 Turbo and 582 (AlbertaIV@aol.com) 29. 03:14 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (Clem Nichols) 30. 03:41 PM - Re: 2 questions 914 Turbo and 582 (Jose M. Toro) 31. 03:43 PM - Re: Static RPM (Torgeir Mortensen) 32. 03:55 PM - Re: IVO prop ---- const speed (John Oakley) 33. 05:04 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (dave) 34. 05:53 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa (Paul) 35. 06:41 PM - Re: SV: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Michel (Ceashman@aol.com) 36. 06:48 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Don (Ceashman@aol.com) 37. 07:03 PM - Kitfox IV going on a diet (Jimmie Blackwell) 38. 07:12 PM - Re: IVO prop ---- const speed (jdmcbean) 39. 07:15 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell (Ceashman@aol.com) 40. 08:29 PM - Re: Fuel filters (Jose M. Toro) 41. 08:40 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl (Marc Arseneault) 42. 08:56 PM - Re: IVO prop ---- const speed (kurt schrader) 43. 11:29 PM - Re: Fuel filters (r.thomas@za.pwc.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:18 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 10/25/04 6:48:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Ceashman@aol.com writes: << at from the engine. Keeping the motor cooler. You do not want to paint the inside white. Greetings. Eric Ashman >> Just curious, I painted mine with the two part white epoxy. Why do I not want to paint it white? It will show oil drips and such but cleans up fairly well. That's why I decided to paint it white. I want to see any oil or gas leaks. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:35 AM PST US From: "Barry Huston" Subject: Kitfox-List: IVO PROP --- More Questions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Barry Huston" I have recently installed amphibious floats on my Model IV --- 912 UL. With two on board and half fuel am still "Fat". Currently I have a 68", Wood 3 Blade, ground adjustable Prop that seems to be set properly. At 70 F , 1000 ft, the climb rate is about 300 fpm dual and under 500 fpm solo. ---- Is the IVO in flight adjustable " Ultralight" Model acceptable or is the 72" , 3 Blade "Medium" Model the right choice? ---- Should the Constant Speed electronic governor feature be added to the Medium Model ? ---- What can I expect for climb rate improvements? ---- My 1993 manual does not spec a Gear Box Model , but states that it has a 2.27 gear reduction? Thanks Barry ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:27 AM PST US From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com << at from the engine. Keeping the motor cooler. You do not want to paint the inside white.......... ->Just curious, I painted mine with the two part white epoxy. Why do I not want to paint it white? It will show oil drips and such but cleans up fairly well. That's why I decided to paint it white. I want to see any oil or gas leaks. Don Smythe ->N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 Hi Don. In the summer. If you ever touch a car surface you will find out that the white car, you can leave your hand on. The black car, you will have to let go after about 2 seconds. That is because the black car can be 180 degrees F. Depend on how much sun is falling on the surface of the car. The same with the inside of the engine cowl. The white color is reflecting the heat back to the engine. The black will be absorbing the engine heat. The absorbed heat will transfer through the cowl and be removed with the airflow on the outside. I read that it a airplane magazine a long time ago, inside black and outside white is the ideal situation for keeping an engine cool. If everything else is OK with the installation. Greetings. Eric. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:56:14 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: AlbertaIV@aol.com > Just curious, I painted mine with the two part white epoxy. Why do I not > want to paint it white? It will show oil drips and such but cleans up fairly > well. That's why I decided to paint it white. I want to see any oil or gas > leaks. Interesting. I was thinking to paint the inside of my new Skyfox cowling white for the same reason, Don. Cheers, Michel do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:14 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > From: Ceashman@aol.com > I read that it a airplane magazine a long time ago, inside black and outside > white is the ideal situation for keeping an engine cool. If everything else is > OK with the installation. OK, how about this, guys: - Top cowling inside painted black. Will absorb rising heat. - Bottom cowling inside painted white. Will show oil and gas stains. - Engine mount painted white. Will show cracks and stains. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:01 AM PST US From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO PROP --- More Questions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" Barry I have the Rotax 582 (65Hp) and on Zenair straight floats I climb at 450-500 fpm (Pilot only an approx 14 gall gas). With two I am down to 300 ft/min. I also have the IVO 2 blade Medium In-flight adjustable. Without the IVO I was down to 200 ft / min with a passenger. I originally had the 3 blade Ultralight IFA prop but had vibration problems due to the harmonics between my 3:1 gear ratio and 3 bladed prop. IVO suggested I go to the much more sturdy "Medium" 2 blade IFA and that solved all of my problems. I gained a couple of mph in cruise with the 2 bladed prop and probably lost a little climb but it's hardly noticeable. One thing that you have to be careful with the two blade prop because the IVO blades vary in thickness at the root where they are sandwiched between the drive plate and the electric motor that "sticks out the front". If the blades vary too much it causes the electric motor plate to "tilt" and this means the motor runs "out of round" setting up vibration. When you order the package tell them you want the blades matched not only for weight but also for thickness at the root. Gary Algate Lite2/582 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< With two on board and half fuel am still "Fat". Currently I have a 68", Wood 3 Blade, ground adjustable Prop that seems to be set properly. At 70 F , 1000 ft, the climb rate is about 300 fpm dual and under 500 fpm solo. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:15 AM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 10/26/04 3:52:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Ceashman@aol.com writes: << I read that it a airplane magazine a long time ago, inside black and outside white is the ideal situation for keeping an engine cool. If everything else is OK with the installation. Greetings. Eric. >> I guess those are good arguments for painting black... White works to show oil and gas drips... I don't think the watercooled engine cares ("as much") what color the insides are? On the case of the Jabiru (air cooled), I think I would go Black and get all the help I could. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:49 AM PST US From: DPREMGOOD@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO PROP --- More Questions --> Kitfox-List message posted by: DPREMGOOD@aol.com Barry, My understanding is that a wooden prop on floats is a no no. If any waterspray hits that prop, it is like kicking up stones. It will do damage to your prop. As for the IVO, there are many more people on the list that can answer that question better than I could. Take care, Doug Remoundos Classic IV Montreal, Canada ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:56 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" Interesting, My only thought here is if you have no cooling problem, to maybe consider other issues. First, does a long time ago mean an aluminum cowl. Our fiberglass cowls are easily tweaked with a hot air gun to make them fit better. I wonder how constant heat absorption - black - will affect the integrity of the cowl. Mine is unpainted, but if I were to paint it, it would be white. I think there was a discussion years ago on this subject. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Subject: SV: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe > > > From: Ceashman@aol.com > > I read that it a airplane magazine a long time ago, inside black and outside > > white is the ideal situation for keeping an engine cool. If everything else is > > OK with the installation. > > OK, how about this, guys: > - Top cowling inside painted black. Will absorb rising heat. > - Bottom cowling inside painted white. Will show oil and gas stains. > - Engine mount painted white. Will show cracks and stains. > > Cheers, > Michel > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:59 AM PST US From: "chad lively" Subject: Kitfox-List: parts --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "chad lively" I have alot of 582/583 parts for sale including, GSC prop, e-gearbox, rotary valves, CDI, rave valves, exhaust, oil injection , mount for IV-1200, and more. Contact me off line if interested ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:27 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS Blue Skies John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not fit both engines. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are > considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements > > Gary A > Lite2/582 > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > People, > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks. > <<<<<<<<<< > steve a > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:51 AM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader I have to agree with Lowell. Engines can take a lot of heat. Aluminum cowls can take up to 1100 degrees before weakening. But fiberglass is good only to 160 or so. Maybe 220 for high temp fiberglass. You don't see any black fiberglass planes flying about for that reason. Even if you have cooling air in flight, you may vaccuform your fiberglass cowl around your hot engine after shutdown if it is black inside. I put reflective heat protection above my engine's hot parts on my cowl and it still gets hot after shutdown. I also open the access panels to let the heat out in the summer. I'd say, protect the cowl with light colors and the engine with good airflow under any fiberglass cowl. Kurt S. --- Lowell Fitt wrote: > Interesting, My only thought here is if you have no > cooling problem, to maybe consider other issues. > First, does a long time ago mean an aluminum > cowl. Our fiberglass cowls are easily tweaked with > a hot air gun to make them fit better. > I wonder how constant heat absorption - black - will > affect the integrity of the cowl. Mine is > unpainted, but if I were to paint > it, it would be white. > > I think there was a discussion years ago on this > subject. > > Lowell __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:04 AM PST US From: "John Oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" Hi Jim, have you used or know of the new constant speed controller ivo is providing for the electronic prop. I am looking for a new prop that may be the answer. John Oakley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS Blue Skies John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not fit both engines. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are > considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements > > Gary A > Lite2/582 > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > People, > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks. > <<<<<<<<<< > steve a > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:17 AM PST US From: customtrans@qwest.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net The difference I've seen on the hubs on the engine is the centers, mine has the smaller diameter hole or protrusion with threads on the hub. I've seen even on another 912ul that the center is bigger and the holes are not threaded. steve a -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS Blue Skies John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.comh Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not fit both engines. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are > considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements > > Gary A > Lite2/582 > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > People, > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks. > <<<<<<<<<< > steve a > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:16 AM PST US From: "John Oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" sorry, ivo prop question is for John McBean -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Oakley Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" Hi Jim, have you used or know of the new constant speed controller ivo is providing for the electronic prop. I am looking for a new prop that may be the answer. John Oakley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS Blue Skies John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not fit both engines. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are > considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements > > Gary A > Lite2/582 > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > People, > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks. > <<<<<<<<<< > steve a > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:16 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: [OFF TOPIC]: Fall in Norway! --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe EMAproducts@aol.com wrote: > Michel, Photo looks very similar to our fall here in the NW US, except the > fog & drizzle has been heavier! He, he! That the thing about your country that stretches - as the song says - from the redwood forests to the gulfstream waters; it covers all kinds of climate, terrain and vegetation, Elbie. I guess, wherever you come from, you can find somewhere a place in the US that looks like home. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:02 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" John, I have not used the controller although I have plans to try it. I only know of one other that has used it very early on and there were some issues with the sensitivity of it.... Apparently it was constantly trying to adjust and not allowing for much variation.... I have been told that this has been fixed. All in all I have been very satisfied with the IVO and that is the main reason I became a dealer for them. Blue Skies John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Oakley Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" Hi Jim, have you used or know of the new constant speed controller ivo is providing for the electronic prop. I am looking for a new prop that may be the answer. John Oakley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS Blue Skies John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not fit both engines. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are > considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements > > Gary A > Lite2/582 > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > People, > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks. > <<<<<<<<<< > steve a > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:53 PM PST US From: "Floran Higgins" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" When I decided to replace my 912 UL engine with a 912 ULS , Lockwood told me that the prop from the 912 UL engine would fit. After I installed the 912 ULS I tried to install the prop from the 912 UL. It would not fit. I called GSC and they told me that the prop flanges were different and I would need another prop. I bought another GSC prop to fit the 912 ULS. the prop hub is definitely different and the blades are quite a bit wider. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS > > Blue Skies > John & Debra McBean > www.sportplanellc.com > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" > > The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not > fit both engines. > Floran H. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Algate" > To: > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > > > > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are > > considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim > > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements > > > > Gary A > > Lite2/582 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > People, > > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done > > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the > > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up > > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric > > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the > > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the > > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks. > > <<<<<<<<<< > > steve a > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:11 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Interesting... I'll have to keep an eye on that... I have installed the same prop on two different engines.. I have seen physical differences with the center part of the flange but the mounting holes were the same. I have heard that the blades on the GSC were different from the 80 to the 100.... Maybe they had a different hub as well. Not true for the IVO. Blue Skies John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" When I decided to replace my 912 UL engine with a 912 ULS , Lockwood told me that the prop from the 912 UL engine would fit. After I installed the 912 ULS I tried to install the prop from the 912 UL. It would not fit. I called GSC and they told me that the prop flanges were different and I would need another prop. I bought another GSC prop to fit the 912 ULS. the prop hub is definitely different and the blades are quite a bit wider. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS > > Blue Skies > John & Debra McBean > www.sportplanellc.com > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" > > The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not > fit both engines. > Floran H. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Algate" > To: > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > > > > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are > > considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim > > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements > > > > Gary A > > Lite2/582 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > People, > > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done > > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the > > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up > > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric > > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the > > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the > > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks. > > <<<<<<<<<< > > steve a > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:30 PM PST US From: LeRoy staley Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: LeRoy staley How about sending me some info on the const speed ivo prop. LeRoy --- jdmcbean wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > > John, > I have not used the controller although I > have plans to try it. I only > know of one other that has used it very early on and > there were some issues > with the sensitivity of it.... Apparently it was > constantly trying to adjust > and not allowing for much variation.... I have been > told that this has been > fixed. > > All in all I have been very satisfied with the IVO > and that is the main > reason I became a dealer for them. > > Blue Skies > John & Debra McBean > www.sportplanellc.com > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On > Behalf Of John Oakley > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" > > > Hi Jim, > have you used or know of the new constant speed > controller ivo is providing > for the electronic prop. > I am looking for a new prop that may be the answer. > > John Oakley > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On > Behalf Of jdmcbean > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" > > > Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL > or 912 ULS > > Blue Skies > John & Debra McBean > www.sportplanellc.com > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On > Behalf Of Floran Higgins > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" > > > The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. > The same prop will not > fit both engines. > Floran H. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Algate" > To: > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > > > > > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice > especially if you are > > considering engine changes as the variable pitch > allows you to trim > > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements > > > > Gary A > > Lite2/582 > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > People, > > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox > when I get done > > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does > it perform next to the > > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it > before. Is it hard to set up > > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for > it. I want the electric > > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll > be using. I have the > > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, > if I were to go to the > > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. > thanks. > > <<<<<<<<<< > > steve a > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:53 PM PST US From: "Michael Gibbard" Subject: Kitfox-List: Static RPM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michael Gibbard" What is the static rpm for a 3 blade wood prop with a Rotex 582 on a Model 1 supposed to be? My instructor asked me. Mike Michael Gibbard 888-544-5241 Toll Free 231-676-3788 Cell mike1@mikegibbard.com E-mail http://www.mikegibbard.com/index2.htm ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:55 PM PST US From: Aerobatics@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Static RPM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Aerobatics@aol.com I get about 5,900 and at 60mph climb, its about 6,200 on an IVO.... KF 2 Blue head Model 99 582 Dave ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:30 PM PST US From: jareds Subject: Kitfox-List: Central California Relocation --> Kitfox-List message posted by: jareds I have an opportunity to relocate to the San Francisco or central CA area and was wondering if there are any listers in the area. My move to the DC area consisted of finding a friendly small town airport to fly out of and am hoping to get a bit more insight prior to a move. If any of you have some insight on that area please contact me offlist as I will greatly appreciate it. Thanks Jared Schott Do Not Archive!! ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:56 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 10/26/04 10:42:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com writes: << have to agree with Lowell. Engines can take a lot of heat. Aluminum cowls can take up to 1100 degrees before weakening. But fiberglass is good only to 160 o >> All good points. I have to take back my comment on painting black if installing an aircooled engine. Based on all the above, I'd go white no matter what engine. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:37 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Static RPM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com In a message dated 10/26/04 2:04:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mike@mikegibbard.com writes: << What is the static rpm for a 3 blade wood prop with a Rotex 582 on a Model 1 supposed to be? My instructor asked me. Mike Michael Gibbard >> Michael, My memory is failing but I seem to remember about 6100 static on the ground with the wooden GSC. Hopefully someone else will chime in with a better memory. Either way, once airborne, you want close to 6800 full throttle in level flight. The ground number is only a ballpark figure. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:22 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Static RPM --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe Michael Gibbard wrote: > What is the static rpm for a 3 blade wood prop with a Rotex 582 on a Model 1 supposed > to be? My instructor asked me. Mike We are told to pitch for a static RPM of 6,200, Mike. Cheers, Michel ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:56 PM PST US From: "Clifford Begnaud" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" Some of the early Rotax 912 engines had a different bolt pattern than the current ones. That may be the problem. Cliff > > Interesting... I'll have to keep an eye on that... I have installed the > same > prop on two different engines.. I have seen physical differences with the > center part of the flange but the mounting holes were the same. I have > heard that the blades on the GSC were different from the 80 to the 100.... > Maybe they had a different hub as well. Not true for the IVO. > > Blue Skies > John & Debra McBean > www.sportplanellc.com > "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" > > When I decided to replace my 912 UL engine with a 912 ULS , Lockwood told > me > that the prop from the 912 UL engine would fit. > After I installed the 912 ULS I tried to install the prop from the 912 UL. > It would not fit. > I called GSC and they told me that the prop flanges were different and I > would need another prop. > I bought another GSC prop to fit the 912 ULS. the prop hub is definitely > different and the blades are quite a bit wider. > Floran H. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jdmcbean" > To: > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" >> >> Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS >> >> Blue Skies >> John & Debra McBean >> www.sportplanellc.com >> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran >> Higgins >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop >> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" >> >> The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will >> not >> fit both engines. >> Floran H. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Gary Algate" >> To: >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop >> >> >> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" >> > >> > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are >> > considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim >> > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements >> > >> > Gary A >> > Lite2/582 >> > >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > People, >> > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done >> > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to >> > the >> > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set > up >> > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the >> > electric >> > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have >> > the >> > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to >> > the >> > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks. >> > <<<<<<<<<< >> > steve a >> > >> > >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:30 PM PST US From: AlbertaIV@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: 2 questions 914 Turbo and 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com First question, does anyone have the honest to goodness weight of the Rotax 914 Turbo (ready to fly). Second question, I'm thinking of changing the airfilter on my 582 from the dual element to two single elements. What are the drawbacks from doing this? I have a feeling that the dual unit causes some tension problems to the carb sockets. Not to mention, the single units seem lighter than one dual and would give less weight hanging off the carbs. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:29 PM PST US From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" Hey, gang: Just a quick thought on this black/white cowl business. One poster was certainly correct about the black car and the white car sitting out in the sun. I don't think that necessarily carries over to inside the cowl of our planes, however. In the car example the radiant energy is in the form of visible light which obviously the white car reflects and the black car doesn't. Inside the cowl, however, the radiant energy from the engine is in the infrared spectrum, so it's probably not going to make any difference what color it is from the heat transfer point of view. I suspect that the surface of the white car would get just as hot from hot air blowing on it as would the black car. Just my two cents worth. Blast me if I'm wrong. Clem Nichols Do Not Archive From: "kurt schrader" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > > > I have to agree with Lowell. Engines can take a lot > of heat. Aluminum cowls can take up to 1100 degrees > before weakening. But fiberglass is good only to 160 > or so. Maybe 220 for high temp fiberglass. You don't > see any black fiberglass planes flying about for that > reason. Even if you have cooling air in flight, you > may vaccuform your fiberglass cowl around your hot > engine after shutdown if it is black inside. > > I put reflective heat protection above my engine's hot > parts on my cowl and it still gets hot after shutdown. > I also open the access panels to let the heat out in > the summer. > > I'd say, protect the cowl with light colors and the > engine with good airflow under any fiberglass cowl. > > Kurt S. > --- Lowell Fitt wrote: > >> Interesting, My only thought here is if you have no >> cooling problem, to maybe consider other issues. >> First, does a long time ago mean an aluminum >> cowl. Our fiberglass cowls are easily tweaked with >> a hot air gun to make them fit better. >> I wonder how constant heat absorption - black - will >> affect the integrity of the cowl. Mine is >> unpainted, but if I were to paint >> it, it would be white. >> >> I think there was a discussion years ago on this >> subject. >> >> Lowell > > > __________________________________ > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:31 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 2 questions 914 Turbo and 582 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Don: I switched 1 year ago from a dual filter to two non-tapered K&N filters. The reason was that, in my 582, the rear carb is closer to the engine that the front one, and would not fit properly in the dual filter (since the sockets are ok, I wonder if this is normal). I can't tell a difference in terms of performance, but now that each filter fits properly, it gives me peace of mind. Jose AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com First question, does anyone have the honest to goodness weight of the Rotax 914 Turbo (ready to fly). Second question, I'm thinking of changing the airfilter on my 582 from the dual element to two single elements. What are the drawbacks from doing this? I have a feeling that the dual unit causes some tension problems to the carb sockets. Not to mention, the single units seem lighter than one dual and would give less weight hanging off the carbs. Don Smythe N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 Jose M. Toro, P.E. Kitfox II/582 "A slow flight in the Caribbean..." --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Static RPM From: Torgeir Mortensen --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen Hi Folks, Just a small input from the (not that cold) high North. I run my 532 with the IVO prop. Since I'll have to keep the inerta below 3 kg/cm2, this is why my prop. max dia. is 66", but I'm safe this way.. Well, the IVO prop. is the best investment I ever spent on my Kitfox -so far. This prop. is just superb.. Well- my opinion. Did you know that, the IVO. use the "same" technique as the modern helos... But, the importance task to do here, is the maintenance, -keep it torqued as required -at required intervalls. And again, my best investment... Static ground (on my mod II) RPM is 6200. In the air, with full power I'll get 6800 RPM -sharp. Cheers Torgeir. On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:32:18 EDT, wrote: > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/26/04 2:04:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > mike@mikegibbard.com writes: > > << What is the static rpm for a 3 blade wood prop with a Rotex 582 on a > Model > 1 supposed to be? My instructor asked me. Mike > Michael Gibbard >> > > Michael, > My memory is failing but I seem to remember about 6100 static on the > ground with the wooden GSC. Hopefully someone else will chime in with a > better > memory. Either way, once airborne, you want close to 6800 full throttle > in > level flight. The ground number is only a ballpark figure. > > Don Smythe > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 > > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:46 PM PST US From: "John Oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" John McBean, I have a fox 4 speedster 912ul. I flew with a gsc prop for the test hours then went to a nsi cap. too much work load for my wife. need something simple but not ready to lose performance. we had setup a constant speed control adapted for it from the rc hobby, but also need to restrict reverse for her. Maybe new cuffs, an overhaul, humm , back to a new prop. a decent speed control would make a easy decision. John Oakley Idaho falls, id -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" John, I have not used the controller although I have plans to try it. I only know of one other that has used it very early on and there were some issues with the sensitivity of it.... Apparently it was constantly trying to adjust and not allowing for much variation.... I have been told that this has been fixed. All in all I have been very satisfied with the IVO and that is the main reason I became a dealer for them. Blue Skies John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Oakley Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" Hi Jim, have you used or know of the new constant speed controller ivo is providing for the electronic prop. I am looking for a new prop that may be the answer. John Oakley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS Blue Skies John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not fit both engines. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are > considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements > > Gary A > Lite2/582 > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > People, > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks. > <<<<<<<<<< > steve a > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:37 PM PST US From: "dave" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "dave" Clem, I disagreee, Black will remain a heat absorber albeit "radiant heat from inside". picture yourself in front of a Radiat heater in a shop with a black shop coat on and then a silver coat . which one would absorb more heat ? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" > > Hey, gang: > > Just a quick thought on this black/white cowl business. One poster was > certainly correct about the black car and the white car sitting out in the > sun. I don't think that necessarily carries over to inside the cowl of our > planes, however. In the car example the radiant energy is in the form of > visible light which obviously the white car reflects and the black car > doesn't. Inside the cowl, however, the radiant energy from the engine is > in the infrared spectrum, so it's probably not going to make any difference > what color it is from the heat transfer point of view. I suspect that the > surface of the white car would get just as hot from hot air blowing on it as > would the black car. Just my two cents worth. Blast me if I'm wrong. > > Clem Nichols > Do Not Archive > From: "kurt schrader" > To: > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa > > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader > > > > > > I have to agree with Lowell. Engines can take a lot > > of heat. Aluminum cowls can take up to 1100 degrees > > before weakening. But fiberglass is good only to 160 > > or so. Maybe 220 for high temp fiberglass. You don't > > see any black fiberglass planes flying about for that > > reason. Even if you have cooling air in flight, you > > may vaccuform your fiberglass cowl around your hot > > engine after shutdown if it is black inside. > > > > I put reflective heat protection above my engine's hot > > parts on my cowl and it still gets hot after shutdown. > > I also open the access panels to let the heat out in > > the summer. > > > > I'd say, protect the cowl with light colors and the > > engine with good airflow under any fiberglass cowl. > > > > Kurt S. > > --- Lowell Fitt wrote: > > > >> Interesting, My only thought here is if you have no > >> cooling problem, to maybe consider other issues. > >> First, does a long time ago mean an aluminum > >> cowl. Our fiberglass cowls are easily tweaked with > >> a hot air gun to make them fit better. > >> I wonder how constant heat absorption - black - will > >> affect the integrity of the cowl. Mine is > >> unpainted, but if I were to paint > >> it, it would be white. > >> > >> I think there was a discussion years ago on this > >> subject. > >> > >> Lowell > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:07 PM PST US From: Paul Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul Hi Clem, Maybe the following will clear up the coatings issue. One can walk thru the parking lot on a sunny day with your IR temperature gauge and see the differences for various colors. However the wavelength is solar and this visible spectrum is very specific. If one wants to know about the temps of things seeing hot engines it is more difficult. Since the engine compartments are closed. The facts are that coatings absorb/reflect as a function of the wavelength of the source. An example is shiny aluminum which is an excellent reflector of the IR wavelength coming from a warm/hot engine. A flat white coating does not reflect or absorb much IR. Other light colors are similar. It is true that the cowl will still get hot due to heat conducted fromthe hot air, but this is not much of an issue since lots of cool air is present when the plane is moving. Dark colors are like flat black Are excellent absorbers & emitters for both solar (visible) and IR. Gold on the other hand absorbs IR and reflects solar wavelength. Spacecraft utilize these properties for passive thermal control on various parts of the craft. Rutan specifies white coating on his composite planes to limit the temperature which can cause degrading the strength. I have seen some composite planes painted light blue and pale yellow. Stripes of bold colors in non structural places are also used. In my mind if one wants a smooth surface inside the fiberglass cowl I would choose gloss white. Then if the cowl gets to hot in localized area make a shiny aluminum heat shield or duct cool air flow for temperature control. Use your IR temperature gauge to check for hot spots on the cowl after an hard run. My choice for the structural parts firewall forward would be the same gloss white in order to keep them cool and stronger. I would use a brittle paint so cracks would not be hidden on these structural parts. Powder coat is not as good as an enamel due to the stiffness of the coating. The urethane coatings like Imron are very flexible and not recommended. Regards, Paul =============== At 5:14 PM -0500 10/26/04, Clem Nichols wrote: >--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clem Nichols" > >Hey, gang: > >Just a quick thought on this black/white cowl business. One poster was >certainly correct about the black car and the white car sitting out in the >sun. I don't think that necessarily carries over to inside the cowl of our >planes, however. In the car example the radiant energy is in the form of >visible light which obviously the white car reflects and the black car >doesn't. Inside the cowl, however, the radiant energy from the engine is >in the infrared spectrum, so it's probably not going to make any difference >what color it is from the heat transfer point of view. I suspect that the >surface of the white car would get just as hot from hot air blowing on it as >would the black car. Just my two cents worth. Blast me if I'm wrong. > >Clem Nichols >Do Not Archive >From: "kurt schrader" >To: >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To David Estapa > > >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader >> >> >> I have to agree with Lowell. Engines can take a lot >> of heat. Aluminum cowls can take up to 1100 degrees >> before weakening. But fiberglass is good only to 160 >> or so. Maybe 220 for high temp fiberglass. You don't >> see any black fiberglass planes flying about for that >> reason. Even if you have cooling air in flight, you >> may vaccuform your fiberglass cowl around your hot >> engine after shutdown if it is black inside. >> >> I put reflective heat protection above my engine's hot >> parts on my cowl and it still gets hot after shutdown. >> I also open the access panels to let the heat out in >> the summer. >> >> I'd say, protect the cowl with light colors and the >> engine with good airflow under any fiberglass cowl. > > >> Kurt S. >> --- Lowell Fitt wrote: >> >>> Interesting, My only thought here is if you have no >>> cooling problem, to maybe consider other issues. >>> First, does a long time ago mean an aluminum >>> cowl. Our fiberglass cowls are easily tweaked with >>> a hot air gun to make them fit better. >>> I wonder how constant heat absorption - black - will >>> affect the integrity of the cowl. Mine is >>> unpainted, but if I were to paint >>> it, it would be white. >>> >>> I think there was a discussion years ago on this >>> subject. >>> >>> Lowell >> >> >> __________________________________ >> >> >> > > -- ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:52 PM PST US From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: SV: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Michel --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com OK, how about this, guys: - Top cowling inside painted black. Will absorb rising heat. - Bottom cowling inside painted white. Will show oil and gas stains. - Engine mount painted white. Will show cracks and stains. ->Cheers, ->Michel Michel. Sounds like the perfect situation. Small oil leaks, oil drips down. Can find the general area. Of course, when the sh*@ hits the fan. it's difficult to find out where it comes from. I like the idea of the engine mount painted white, for the reasons you gave. Greetings. Eric. DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:46 PM PST US From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Don --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com --I don't think the watercooled engine cares ("as much") --what color the insides are? On the case of the Jabiru (air cooled), I think I --would go Black and get all the help I could. --Don Smythe --N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582 Good point Don. You are probably right. The water takes the heat outside to the radiator, to do it's thing. There would be a great difference with pure air cooled motors Cheers. Eric. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:01 PM PST US From: "Jimmie Blackwell" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV going on a diet --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" I am going to shed some pounds off my plane and will be removing several items from the panel such as a stereo system and loran. Looking for ideas on ways to fill in the panel holes and keep it looking good. Thank you. Jimmie Anyone looking for an Apollo Loran and Kenwood stereo system let me know. I am skeptical about their condition, but they will be cheap. ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:04 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" John, The IVO does not go into reverse.. so that would not be an issue... I'll do some checking on the constant speed for the IVO... Blue Skies John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Oakley Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" John McBean, I have a fox 4 speedster 912ul. I flew with a gsc prop for the test hours then went to a nsi cap. too much work load for my wife. need something simple but not ready to lose performance. we had setup a constant speed control adapted for it from the rc hobby, but also need to restrict reverse for her. Maybe new cuffs, an overhaul, humm , back to a new prop. a decent speed control would make a easy decision. John Oakley Idaho falls, id -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" John, I have not used the controller although I have plans to try it. I only know of one other that has used it very early on and there were some issues with the sensitivity of it.... Apparently it was constantly trying to adjust and not allowing for much variation.... I have been told that this has been fixed. All in all I have been very satisfied with the IVO and that is the main reason I became a dealer for them. Blue Skies John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Oakley Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" Hi Jim, have you used or know of the new constant speed controller ivo is providing for the electronic prop. I am looking for a new prop that may be the answer. John Oakley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jdmcbean" Actually.. The props will work on either the 912 UL or 912 ULS Blue Skies John & Debra McBean www.sportplanellc.com "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Floran Higgins Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IVO prop --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Floran Higgins" The 912UL has a different prop hub than the 912ULS. The same prop will not fit both engines. Floran H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Algate" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Gary Algate" > > The IVO in flight adjustable is a good choice especially if you are > considering engine changes as the variable pitch allows you to trim > accordingly for the RPM and HP requirements > > Gary A > Lite2/582 > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > People, > I'm considering putting the ivo prop on the kitfox when I get done > rebuilding it. The questions I have are: how does it perform next to the > powerfin 3 blade, that's the prop I had on it before. Is it hard to set up > or can I set it to a certain setting and go for it. I want the electric > adjust and looks like the model 72 is the one I'll be using. I have the > kitfox4 1200 with rotax 912ul 80. Next question, if I were to go to the > 912s in the future, would this be the wrong prop. thanks. > <<<<<<<<<< > steve a > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:09 PM PST US From: Ceashman@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" -Interesting, My only thought here is if you have no cooling problem, to -maybe consider other issues. First, does a long time ago mean an aluminum -cowl. Our fiberglass cowls are easily tweaked with a hot air gun to make -them fit better. I wonder how constant heat absorption - black - will -affect the integrity of the cowl. Mine is unpainted, but if I were to paint -it, it would be white. Hi Lowell. A long time ago was about 3 to 4 years. The article was either in Sport Aviation, Kitplanes or the AOPA magazine. It probably showed an aluminum cowl. The theme was on cooling the engine only. I cannot see constant heat affecting the cowl as there are no strategic stress items involved. But I also understand that a composite aircraft should be painted white as there are strategic stress items like the wing needs to keep stuck together. My Classic IV is dark blue on the outside and gets pretty hot in the summer when standing on the ramp (a good 180 degrees F.) I see no breakdown so far. Other than the fine gelcoat cracks that happened during construction, You know, when you are wrestling with this sloppy thing especially the times you are by yourself. This when I was heating it up and installing the lower cowl. Greetings. Eric. DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:00 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel filters --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Gill: I know of at least two occurrences of failures of those filters. I would not use those filters. Engine failure + in-flight fire = undesiderable combo. Jose Gill Levesque wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque Hey all Canadian listers, Can you tell me where I could find the GLASS PUROLATOR FILTERS in Canada??? Thanks Gil Levesque C-IGVL Still alive and flyin!!!! Gil --------------------------------- Jose M. Toro, P.E. Kitfox II/582 "A slow flight in the Caribbean..." --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:45 PM PST US From: "Marc Arseneault" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Coating on Inside of Cowl --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Marc Arseneault" My personal opinion is to leave the inside of the cowling unpainted like most of us have done and inspect for leaks. You have to remove the top cowling to do a proper pre-flight inspection before every flightand from my experience a leak is very noticeable on my unpainted cowling.Why add the weight of more paint and all the other issues? Best Regards, Marc Arseneault Ontario Canada Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:16 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: IVO prop ---- const speed --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader John, Did you say that you made a constant speed controller for the NSI CAP? I had thought of the same thing, but figured it was too slow to change and would need slower throttle movements. What was your experience? Did it work OK? Mine wouldn't go into reverse unless I was at low rpm, like after landing. Yours should have been the same. Kurt S. --- John Oakley wrote: > John McBean, > I have a fox 4 speedster 912ul. I flew with a gsc > prop for the test hours then went to > a nsi cap. too much work load for my wife. need > something simple but not ready to > lose performance. we had setup a constant speed > control adapted for it from the rc hobby, but > also need to restrict reverse for her. Maybe new > cuffs, an overhaul, humm, back to a new prop. > a decent speed control would make a easy decision. > > John Oakley > Idaho falls, id __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel filters From: r.thomas@za.pwc.com 07:28:25, Serialize complete at 27/10/2004 07:28:25 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: r.thomas@za.pwc.com Hi Gill If you are referring to filters similar to this http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/resources/images/list/fse_puro.jpg then: A bunch of us used these filters. Out of about 5 of us, 4 failed within a short space of time. Luckily mine was the 5th and I removed it before I picked up any problems. The problem appears to be the seals at each end between the glass and housing. They seem to perish quickly and the filter begins to suck in air and leads to fuel starvation. Regards Roger "Jose M. Toro" Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 27/10/2004 05:28 AM Please respond to kitfox-list@matronics.com To kitfox-list@matronics.com cc Subject Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel filters Size: 5 Kb --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jose M. Toro" Gill: I know of at least two occurrences of failures of those filters. I would not use those filters. Engine failure + in-flight fire = undesiderable combo. Jose Gill Levesque wrote: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Gill Levesque Hey all Canadian listers, Can you tell me where I could find the GLASS PUROLATOR FILTERS in Canada??? Thanks Gil Levesque C-IGVL Still alive and flyin!!!! Gil --------------------------------- Jose M. Toro, P.E. 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