Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:59 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell (Michel Verheughe)
2. 06:01 AM - Re: repost from R.A.H. (Lowell Fitt)
3. 06:08 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
4. 06:26 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell (Lowell Fitt)
5. 08:58 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl (Paul)
6. 08:58 AM - Fuel tanks (Paul)
7. 09:13 AM - Re: Thanks BruceRe: bh radiator flap (Bruce Harrington)
8. 09:13 AM - Re: repost from R.A.H. (John Oakley)
9. 09:15 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
10. 09:53 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl (Michel Verheughe)
11. 11:32 AM - Re: A New Temperature Control System (kurt schrader)
12. 12:51 PM - Metal Header Tank (Jimmie Blackwell)
13. 01:39 PM - Re: Metal Header Tank (Jeffrey Puls)
14. 03:45 PM - Re: Metal Header Tank (Jerry Liles)
15. 04:03 PM - Re: Metal Header Tank (Rick)
16. 07:53 PM - Re: Thanks BruceRe: bh radiator flapRe: Rotax two Stroke in-flight failu re question. (david yeamans)
17. 08:34 PM - Re: Metal Header Tank (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
18. 09:03 PM - Re: repost from R.A.H. (Lowell Fitt)
19. 10:54 PM - 582 Big end bearing failure. (Rex & Jan Shaw)
20. 10:54 PM - Resistor Caps + Resistor plugs (Rex & Jan Shaw)
21. 11:54 PM - Theromostically controlled actuator (EMAproducts@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Jerry, Don and Eric
AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
> If you fill up that one hole, you will strengthen the area around that one hole.
It makes sense to me too, Don. But please, note my rhetoric: I always write "I
think" or "I don't know but" as a disclaimer because I am an illustrator, not
an engineer. When I was designing yachts, I was drawing them, not building them.
What I did was to pass to this list a piece of information that I got 25 years
ago, when I was on the shipyard, showing my drawings to the Veritas Bureau
inspector. We were to class certify a newly built 33 feet sailboat. As he
needed a piece of the hull, we gave him the one foot square cut-out that the
yard did to let the Z-drive engine through the hull.
Then the inspector told me: "The usual mistake home builders make, is to have
too much resin. We will burn this sample to make sure this hull has at least
70% of its weight as glassfiber."
That's all. I can't say anything about tensile vs. impact strength. I can't
really say anything about your tanks because I haven't seen them. I think (note
the word) that Eric has also a point in saying that a used fuel tank will be
difficult to have a new layer of epoxy to be glued to it (although I have seen
Araldite fixing lots of things).
But to get back to the original thread, I think that coating the inside of the
cowling is a good thing. If not for strength, for the ease of cleaning stains.
All those small holes you talk about must surely be traps for dirt, oil, etc.
While on the subject of glassfiber and resin moulding, here is something that
might he interesting for you guys: My present sailboat was built in Denmark
using a superior technique. The hull is hand-laid glassfiber fabric bounded
with polyester but without catalyser. Then the entire mould is baked in an oven
at about 80 degrees C during 48 hours. Also, it is the heat that cures the
polyester. Apparently it makes the hull 120% stronger than the catalyser
method. Of course one need a big, big oven for this. The yard that built my
boat rented the oven from another, larger yard.
I wonder if one gets the same result with epoxy, though.
Cheers,
Michel
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: repost from R.A.H. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
I have two friends that are using the CAP 140 prop and am not sure they are
in the loop for being informed of this Service Bulletin. I have checked the
NSI website a couple of times and the bulletin is not posted.
After re-reading the bulletin, I am a bit confused. Are all the 912S
version 1 and 2 hubs grounded immediately or are they still usable until the
hour limit.
Anyway I wanted to personally let these guys know the situation. Both are
original purchasers of the units so should be on the NSI mailing list.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: repost from R.A.H.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
>
> This summer an RAA member suffered the loss of a prop blade on his
> amphibious 912S Kitfox, that was equipped with a NSI CAP 140 propeller.The
> engine immediately broke from its mount, but fortunately was retained by
the
> hoses and cables. The pilot was able to make a successful emergency
landing
> with the departed blade stuck into his float.
>
> The NSI CAP 140 prop is in-flight adjustable and has three Warp Drive
> blades that are modified by the addition of an aluminum cuff that fits
into
> the NSI hub. There have so far been two versions of this cuff, with a
third
> version about to be released. Some applications will have their effective
> lives limited by this AD, and others are grounded immediately. New version
3
> parts are not yet ready, so some planes will be grounded until parts are
> available near the end of this year.
>
> Effective immediately, all 912S Rotax engines with either the version 1
> or version 2 cuff are grounded. These parts may not be used any longer.
Ship
> your blades to NSI for installation of the version 3 cuff. Lance Wheeler
has
> told me this morning that the cost will be under $500 US.
>
> Effective immediately, all 912 engines with the version 1 cuff are
> limited to 500 hours. All 912 engines with the version 2 cuff are limited
to
> 1000 hours. Blades must then be shipped to NSI for installation of the
> version 3 cuff.
>
> Effective immediately, all 914 engines with the version 1 cuff are
> limited to 700 hours. All 914 engines with the version 2 cuff are limited
to
> 1000 hours. Blades must then be shipped to NSI for installation of the
> version 3 cuff.
>
> In Lance Wheeler's estimate, blades fitted with the version 3 cuff will
> have an effective life of 2000 hours.This estimate has been calculated by
> Finite Element Analysis. The full story on this will be printed in the
next
> issue of the Recreational Flyer.
>
>
> Gary Wolf
> President, RAA Canada
>
>
> Howard Firm
> 508 12th St. South
> Virginia MN 55792
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
<< Could you try to smooth things out and wet the system after full curing?
Lets
say that the pocket holes are 100% clean, no dust, no oils etc. You could
get
>>
Wow, this thread is going far.....Please forget that I used the term
stronger. The whole and main intent was to seal the insides of the tanks against
fuel leaks. The "stronger" term I threw in was a side comment and it really
doesn't make any difference.
I would not have coated the insides of my tanks if they had been smooth
and pretty. Yes, it would probably have cracked? Yes, I did rough sand every
square in. of the tank insides. Yes, I cleaned and scrubbed them a lot. I
put on a very minimal amount of epoxy and moved it continuously to prevent any
buildup. Yes, there are two kinds of bond with epoxy. One is the chemical bond
when using wet on wet application and there is the adhesive bond when using
wet on cured material. Adhesion bond is much more difficult.
At the height of the Kreeme discussion, I had to make a decision on what
to do. I could have done nothing but remove the Kreeme and leave the raw
fiberglass exposed. As I stated before, the insides of the tanks looked pretty
bad with all the raw glass hanging.
There are very few materials that I would have trusted to coat the
insides of the tanks. The material had to adhere well and must be compatible with
gasoline. I felt Epoxy was the best choice at the time (thin and even without
trying to fill the square holes).
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
Not an engineer here either, but...
I have done significant modifications to my cowls - adding stiffeners inside
to help the edges mate up consistently and added NACA vents. when working
on the inside, I applied the epoxy right over the fresh surface. I am into
my seventh year of flying - about 100 hours per year - and have found no
evidence of delamination of my repairs.
Polyester resins have an interesting quality along with many other resins -
they are oxygen inhibited - they will not cure on the surface due to the
oxygen in the air interfering with polymerization. for this reason, they
have build-up resins that do not have the wax which essentially means that,
at least for a period of time there is a thin layer of uncured resin on the
surface. Maybe that is what you are referring to when you recommend
sanding. Sanding is necessary to remove the wax coating which would be
found on a completed part.
It is my understanding that Epoxy resins do not suffer the same oxygen
inhibiting effect and cure to the surface. I use it a lot and it sands
readily. Also I have yet to find an epoxy designated - surfacing.
I like Don's logic and see it as stiffening the last layer of cloth by
eliminating the flex that would be possible with air between the weave.
Lowell
> Is there an engineer in the house?
> I am not but I have worked with fiberglass on new work and on repairs. And
if
> you don't mind, I would like to share my comments base purely on
experience
> and not science
>
> I thought tensile strength was related to the stresses as if you were
pulling
> the component apart. Like in stretching a rubber band or two Dutch men
> fighting over a penny and making copper wire.
> I don't think a fuel tank or cowling requires tensile strength built into
it
> as an engineering factor.
>
> If any composite component, whether made from epoxy or polyester is cured
> through and you apply the correct resin (epoxy for epoxy and polyester for
> polyester) over the unsanded (You should sand with P60, P80 to P120 grit).
Then you
> will have adhesion problems. It aint goin to stick, the more thickness you
> apply, the more it will fall off, through flexing or constant vibration.
So I
> would not try to coat the inside of the fuel tank, 'cause I can't get in
there to
> sand.
>
> As to the fabric lay-up, The fiberglass or carbon fiber, sheets
(laminates)
> by the time you have finished should have enough resin to completely wet
the
> woven material but not so much as to run off if the piece is vertical or
"lake"
> puddle if the piece is horizontal. Any more resin than complete wetting is
a
> waste (no added strength without the extra sheet of glass or carbon).
>
> If you inspect the cured article and close up you find minute square
pocket
> holes. This tells you that the fabric lay-up was not wet enough. Is it a
bad
> thing? not necessarily. As long as the first layer or two had sufficient
wetting
> you should be OK. Unless this is a wing! The mistake has been made. Good
> fiberglass work should look pretty. The same as welding, welding should
also look
> pleasing to the eye!
>
> Could you try to smooth things out and wet the system after full curing?
Lets
> say that the pocket holes are 100% clean, no dust, no oils etc. You could
get
> some adhesion but I would not trust it. As to wetting the glass or carbon
> fiber and getting better structural integrity = No. You may even try to
laminate
> a new sheet of glass but that would be like using the original like a mold
> with very poor release qualities.
>
> Regards. Eric Ashman
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
Engineer,Yes. I have read much but most comments seem reasonable. The resin holds
a matrix of fibers such that in theory all the fibers are in tension. This
is not possible with a unidirectional (uni) lay up so multiple lay ups are placed
so each provides strength in tension in all the various required directions.
So for structural parts one may have many uni's and several bidirectional (bids)
to hold them together. Such is the design of a spar. A cowl would be layed
up over or into (kitfox) a mold with bids that cross at an angle, thus giving
strength every which way. So when the mold is a female then the interior would
be rough like ours.
Successful products have the minimum of resin for the best strength to weight
ratio. This is accomplished by vacuum bagging or by lots of effort with a squeege.
I used both methods when I made my console. I used the squeege to remove
as much resin as I could over a foam mold. Then I used a vacuum cleaner to pull
out the resin into a polyester mat. The result is a very light structure that
is very stiff.
Successful mods to a cowl is a very reasonable thing to do and the only worry
is to use a compatible resin and provide lots of tooth for adhesion. Some resins
contain the wax (not recommended) which seeps to the surface and must be removed
as some have pointed out. Very rough sanding & solvent is also necessary.
For multiple lay ups that require curing between steps a polyester cloth is
used, which when removed provides a very rough surface. And if one selects a resin
with no wax then the next lay up can proceed with no prep at all. Buy this
knit cloth at the fabric store.
I reinforced my wing tips without much prep since I could not get into the narrow
crack where the two halves were joined. I got good adhesion so I guess the
production resin did not have any wax. I was not able to remove any excess resin
so the result is heavier than necessary. I just pushed stuff into the narrow
area until it was cured. I used a bid cloth about 4" wide. So far I have not
messed with the cowl.
If one wants a smooth surface after a layup is cured (my console) then use the
same epoxy and a filler and smear it on and sand it off. Hopefully the layup
resin did not have the dreaded wax. :-) The inside of the cowl has this rough
surface. But, remember filler adds weight just like the paint does. Filler powder
comes in various colors and light color would be best for the inside of a
cowl for the reasons discussed in this thread. The lightest filler is 'micro
balloons' which are very small hollow spheres of glass.
So thanks for reading this short writeup. It does not appear that many of you
needed any help at all.
Regards, Paul
==================
At 6:25 AM -0700 10/30/04, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
>Not an engineer here either, but...
>
>I have done significant modifications to my cowls - adding stiffeners inside
>to help the edges mate up consistently and added NACA vents. when working
>on the inside, I applied the epoxy right over the fresh surface. I am into
>my seventh year of flying - about 100 hours per year - and have found no
>evidence of delamination of my repairs.
>
>Polyester resins have an interesting quality along with many other resins -
>they are oxygen inhibited - they will not cure on the surface due to the
>oxygen in the air interfering with polymerization. for this reason, they
>have build-up resins that do not have the wax which essentially means that,
>at least for a period of time there is a thin layer of uncured resin on the
>surface. Maybe that is what you are referring to when you recommend
>sanding. Sanding is necessary to remove the wax coating which would be
>found on a completed part.
>
>It is my understanding that Epoxy resins do not suffer the same oxygen
>inhibiting effect and cure to the surface. I use it a lot and it sands
>readily. Also I have yet to find an epoxy designated - surfacing.
>
>I like Don's logic and see it as stiffening the last layer of cloth by
>eliminating the flex that would be possible with air between the weave.
>
>Lowell
>> Is there an engineer in the house?
>> I am not but I have worked with fiberglass on new work and on repairs. And
>if
>> you don't mind, I would like to share my comments base purely on
>experience
>> and not science
>>
>> I thought tensile strength was related to the stresses as if you were
>pulling
>> the component apart. Like in stretching a rubber band or two Dutch men
>> fighting over a penny and making copper wire.
>> I don't think a fuel tank or cowling requires tensile strength built into
>it
>> as an engineering factor.
>>
>> If any composite component, whether made from epoxy or polyester is cured
>> through and you apply the correct resin (epoxy for epoxy and polyester for
>> polyester) over the unsanded (You should sand with P60, P80 to P120 grit).
>Then you
>> will have adhesion problems. It aint goin to stick, the more thickness you
>> apply, the more it will fall off, through flexing or constant vibration.
>So I
>> would not try to coat the inside of the fuel tank, 'cause I can't get in
>there to
>> sand.
>>
>> As to the fabric lay-up, The fiberglass or carbon fiber, sheets
>(laminates)
>> by the time you have finished should have enough resin to completely wet
>the
>> woven material but not so much as to run off if the piece is vertical or
>"lake"
>> puddle if the piece is horizontal. Any more resin than complete wetting is
>a
>> waste (no added strength without the extra sheet of glass or carbon).
>>
>> If you inspect the cured article and close up you find minute square
>pocket
>> holes. This tells you that the fabric lay-up was not wet enough. Is it a
>bad
>> thing? not necessarily. As long as the first layer or two had sufficient
>wetting
>> you should be OK. Unless this is a wing! The mistake has been made. Good
>> fiberglass work should look pretty. The same as welding, welding should
>also look
>> pleasing to the eye!
>>
>> Could you try to smooth things out and wet the system after full curing?
>Lets
>> say that the pocket holes are 100% clean, no dust, no oils etc. You could
>get
>> some adhesion but I would not trust it. As to wetting the glass or carbon
>> fiber and getting better structural integrity = No. You may even try to
>laminate
>> a new sheet of glass but that would be like using the original like a mold
>> with very poor release qualities.
>>
>> Regards. Eric Ashman
>>
>>
>
>
--
Message 6
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Paul <pwilson@climber.org>
With all the discussion about glass/resin for cowls and tanks it reminded me....
Those of us who have not installed the tanks or those who have installed them
but not covered. STALL - The new Skystar tanks will be urethane. The last time
I talked to Frank Miller he said next summer would be as soon as they could
get the tanks into production. The design should resolve all previously known
issues with glass composite tanks
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Thanks BruceRE: bh radiator flap |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Your welcome Robert,
I used at least 3 different sizes of plastic, with velcro to hold them on.
Maybe 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 cover of the radiator.
Makes for a good temporary solution until you can make the flap system.
Cheers,
bh
> Thanks Bruce. I want to make a flap like you did. I also want to put 800
> hrs
> on my 582 like you did.
> I saw your e-mail a few weeks ago about putting plastic on the radiator so
> I
> duct taped some card board on my radiator but as soon as it got warm I had
> to land and take it off.
>
> Robert
Message 8
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| Subject: | repost from R.A.H. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
Lowell,
I read the note to say that all 912s are grounded. because the version 3
cuff is not out yet..
John Oakely
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: repost from R.A.H.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
I have two friends that are using the CAP 140 prop and am not sure they are
in the loop for being informed of this Service Bulletin. I have checked the
NSI website a couple of times and the bulletin is not posted.
After re-reading the bulletin, I am a bit confused. Are all the 912S
version 1 and 2 hubs grounded immediately or are they still usable until the
hour limit.
Anyway I wanted to personally let these guys know the situation. Both are
original purchasers of the units so should be on the NSI mailing list.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: repost from R.A.H.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
>
> This summer an RAA member suffered the loss of a prop blade on his
> amphibious 912S Kitfox, that was equipped with a NSI CAP 140 propeller.The
> engine immediately broke from its mount, but fortunately was retained by
the
> hoses and cables. The pilot was able to make a successful emergency
landing
> with the departed blade stuck into his float.
>
> The NSI CAP 140 prop is in-flight adjustable and has three Warp Drive
> blades that are modified by the addition of an aluminum cuff that fits
into
> the NSI hub. There have so far been two versions of this cuff, with a
third
> version about to be released. Some applications will have their effective
> lives limited by this AD, and others are grounded immediately. New version
3
> parts are not yet ready, so some planes will be grounded until parts are
> available near the end of this year.
>
> Effective immediately, all 912S Rotax engines with either the version 1
> or version 2 cuff are grounded. These parts may not be used any longer.
Ship
> your blades to NSI for installation of the version 3 cuff. Lance Wheeler
has
> told me this morning that the cost will be under $500 US.
>
> Effective immediately, all 912 engines with the version 1 cuff are
> limited to 500 hours. All 912 engines with the version 2 cuff are limited
to
> 1000 hours. Blades must then be shipped to NSI for installation of the
> version 3 cuff.
>
> Effective immediately, all 914 engines with the version 1 cuff are
> limited to 700 hours. All 914 engines with the version 2 cuff are limited
to
> 1000 hours. Blades must then be shipped to NSI for installation of the
> version 3 cuff.
>
> In Lance Wheeler's estimate, blades fitted with the version 3 cuff will
> have an effective life of 2000 hours.This estimate has been calculated by
> Finite Element Analysis. The full story on this will be printed in the
next
> issue of the Recreational Flyer.
>
>
> Gary Wolf
> President, RAA Canada
>
>
> Howard Firm
> 508 12th St. South
> Virginia MN 55792
>
>
Message 9
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/30/04 8:58:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
pwilson@climber.org writes:
<< into production. The design should resolve all previously known issues
with glass composite tanks >>
Paul,
And then we start all over with a new set of issues with the Poly tanks.
Ha....
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Do Not Archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Paul wrote:
> So thanks for reading this short writeup.
Thank you for writing it, Paul. As I just found out with the reason why
polyurethane paint can't be sprayed in a mould first, we never stop to learn
and that's good.
Micro-balloons filler is also much used in the yachting industry as it is easy
to sand down. Before it existed on the marked, talcum was used for the same
purpose. If any of you decides to use that, make sure you get the industrial
type and not the perfumed one ... unless you want your cowl to look and smell
like a baby's bottom! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: A New Temperature Control System |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Guys,
I also have been trying to come up with a fail-safe
controller for this purpose. In my case, I think that
a good radiator scoop door would decrease the cooling
drag on the plane.
A simple manual bypass valve across the radiator would
be less risky then a thermostat IMHO. You are just
using full airflow thru the radiator all the time and
thus always at max radiator drag in either case.
Thermostats are not as elegant, but they don't weigh
much either. Trying to come up with an
auto-controller that is light weight and cheap is not
so easy. I just haven't had the time to do much more
research on it yet, but...
I did find a digital, progammable radiator temp gauge
in Summit that you can adjust as you wish to control a
fan, pump, or maybe a cowl door. It has the
adjustable "on" and "off" limits that you can set and
includes the high current relays, sending unit, etc
for $100. Instead of adding a second thermostat, you
could just replace your gauge and save a little
weight.
Perhaps a large model plane or sailboat servo could be
used to power the doors. I haven't got anywhere near
that far in designing it yet. Maybe someone else has
the time or ambition?
One basic problem with this gauge is that "on" opens
the door, but the lower "off" setting just stops the
door and doesn't close it.
A cheaper house thermostat behind the radiator might
work just as well.
Then you still need to make a backup manual system.
Just some ideas to think of, if anyone was interested
in persuing this further. It is on my "get-to-it"
list for later.
Kurt S.
> << Hi all!
> Given the problems of shock cooling and
> seizure described on the
> list for the 582, I thought that if I removed the
> existing thermostat, then
> cowled my radiator, then contrived some kind of
> system that opened the cowl
> flap based on the coolant temperature, I might
> eliminate the shock cooling
> problem. The water would always circulate
> throughout the system, and it
> would be maintained at the proper temperature by
> the automatic action of
> the cowl flap. Has anyone tried this system? Do you
> think it would work?
> Does anyone have a line on a thermostatically
> controlled actuator that
> could drive a cowl flap?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
> >>
>
> Guy,
> The thought of an automatic vent door has
> crossed my mind but would be
> afraid of it having a failure. Also control and
> monitoring systems might be
> difficult to come up with. On removing the
> thermostat, you might have a problem
> being able to keep the temps up.
> Speaking of seizures, I know I'm wrong but only
> one seizure comes to
> mind. One of our members had one due to failing to
> put back the sieve sleeves. I
> can't recall other seizures???? Either way, proper
> operating and
> controlling the temps should greatly reduce
> seizures.
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
__________________________________
Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Metal Header Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
As part of going through my airplane which is new to me I noted that the underside
of the header tank around the fuel line fitting feels very slightly damp.
Since I had been working around other parts of the plane I am not sure whether
it smells like gasoline or not. Could this dampness be a little bit of condensation?
I think I will err on the side of caution and change the metal fitting that goes
into the bottom of the header tank. Does anyone know if these fittings can
be purchased in an auto parts store and should there be some sort of substance
put on the threads before attaching it to the header tank?
BTW, got the new ignition switch in yesterday and installed it. That cured the
hard to start and won't quit problem.
Thanks
Jimmie
Message 13
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| Subject: | Metal Header Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
Jimmie,
Take the plastic tank out, it will cause you nothing but trouble. Take the
plastic tank to a reputable welding shop and have them make an identical
tank out of aluminum. They will weld the attachment ears and the bosses for
the fittings. It cost me $60. It was money well spent. Jeff classic IV
> [Original Message]
> From: Jimmie Blackwell <jablackwell@ev1.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 10/30/2004 3:51:26 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Metal Header Tank
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
<jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
> As part of going through my airplane which is new to me I noted that the
underside of the header tank around the fuel line fitting feels very
slightly damp. Since I had been working around other parts of the plane I
am not sure whether it smells like gasoline or not. Could this dampness be
a little bit of condensation?
>
> I think I will err on the side of caution and change the metal fitting
that goes into the bottom of the header tank. Does anyone know if these
fittings can be purchased in an auto parts store and should there be some
sort of substance put on the threads before attaching it to the header tank?
>
> BTW, got the new ignition switch in yesterday and installed it. That
cured the hard to start and won't quit problem.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jimmie
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Metal Header Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
While you are having the tank made have them put in a sump for the drain.
Jerry
Jeffrey Puls wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
>
>Jimmie,
>Take the plastic tank out, it will cause you nothing but trouble. Take the
>plastic tank to a reputable welding shop and have them make an identical
>tank out of aluminum. They will weld the attachment ears and the bosses for
>the fittings. It cost me $60. It was money well spent. Jeff classic IV
>
>
>
>
>>[Original Message]
>>From: Jimmie Blackwell <jablackwell@ev1.net>
>>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>Date: 10/30/2004 3:51:26 PM
>>Subject: Kitfox-List: Metal Header Tank
>>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
>>
>>
><jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
>
>>As part of going through my airplane which is new to me I noted that the
>>
>>
>underside of the header tank around the fuel line fitting feels very
>slightly damp. Since I had been working around other parts of the plane I
>am not sure whether it smells like gasoline or not. Could this dampness be
>a little bit of condensation?
>
>
>>I think I will err on the side of caution and change the metal fitting
>>
>>
>that goes into the bottom of the header tank. Does anyone know if these
>fittings can be purchased in an auto parts store and should there be some
>sort of substance put on the threads before attaching it to the header tank?
>
>
>>BTW, got the new ignition switch in yesterday and installed it. That
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Metal Header Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Better yet make a card board mock up and make sure it fits and clears.
Increase your fuel capacity some. Just a thought. I did this using a design
by Tom Anderson. Nice to know when and if my low fuel light comes on I still
have almost 3 gallons no matter what. Look on sportfligh for the pics.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Liles
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Metal Header Tank
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jerry Liles <wliles@bayou.com>
While you are having the tank made have them put in a sump for the drain.
Jerry
Jeffrey Puls wrote:
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jeffrey Puls" <pulsair@mindspring.com>
>
>Jimmie,
>Take the plastic tank out, it will cause you nothing but trouble. Take the
>plastic tank to a reputable welding shop and have them make an identical
>tank out of aluminum. They will weld the attachment ears and the bosses for
>the fittings. It cost me $60. It was money well spent. Jeff classic IV
>
>
>>[Original Message]
>>From: Jimmie Blackwell <jablackwell@ev1.net>
>>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>Date: 10/30/2004 3:51:26 PM
>>Subject: Kitfox-List: Metal Header Tank
>>
>>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell"
>>
>>
><jablackwell@ev1.net>
>
>
>>As part of going through my airplane which is new to me I noted that the
>>
>>
>underside of the header tank around the fuel line fitting feels very
>slightly damp. Since I had been working around other parts of the plane I
>am not sure whether it smells like gasoline or not. Could this dampness be
>a little bit of condensation?
>
>
>>I think I will err on the side of caution and change the metal fitting
>>
>>
>that goes into the bottom of the header tank. Does anyone know if these
>fittings can be purchased in an auto parts store and should there be some
>sort of substance put on the threads before attaching it to the header
tank?
>
>
>>BTW, got the new ignition switch in yesterday and installed it. That
>>
>>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax two Stroke |
in-flight failu re question.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "david yeamans" <dafox@ckt.net>
Hello Robert,m
I too think that bh has the best idea with the radiator flap. anything
to control the temperture without using a thermostat. Thermostats can malfuntion.
I don't intend to ever use one. The next best thing is blocking
the wind flow with cardboard, you can still see 18 wheelers going down the
highway with cardboard in front of their radiators on a cold day. What I did,
and this was on the Foxlist a winter or two ago, was cut a piece of plastic
screen wire, doubled it, like an envelope, to fit the front of the radiator, got
self adhevsive velcro, stiched one side to the screen wire and applied the
other to the radiator. Then I cut three pieces of cardboard, 0ne 2x8, 2x10,
and 2x12, these were from beer cartens, Natural Lite, Bush lite, and Bud
lite, in prospective. The 2x8 worked fine at 60 degrees, the 2x10 at 40 degrees
and the 2x12 at 20 degrees. they all maintained close to 170 degrees. I still
use them. Maybe one day i'll make a radiator flap like Bruce
did
David
----- Original Message -----
From: Harris, Robert
To: 'kitfox-list@matronics.com' Stroke in-flight failu re question.
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 10:36 PM
Subject: Thanks BruceRE: bh radiator flapRE: Kitfox-List: Rotax two Stroke in-flight
failu re question.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Thanks Bruce. I want to make a flap like you did. I also want to put 800 hrs
on my 582 like you did.
I saw your e-mail a few weeks ago about putting plastic on the radiator so I
duct taped some card board on my radiator but as soon as it got warm I had
to land and take it off.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Harrington
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: bh radiator flapRE: Kitfox-List: Rotax two Stroke in-flight
failu re question.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bruce Harrington" <aerowood@mcsi.net>
Hi Robert,
#1. Yes.
#2. No pictures. I riveted a piano hinge on the rear bottom of the
radiator.
Riveted a flap to the hinge (opened to about 75)(flap ends had 90 flanges
for strength).
Riveted a flange at the top center of the flap for attaching a control
cable.
Made a bracket to hold cable housing on the top of the radiator and riveted
it there.
Ran the cable to a home made bellcrank attached to the lower horizontal
firewall plate (1:2 ratio to increase throw at flap).
Ran a vernier control cable from the bellcrank up then back and thru the
vertical firewall.
Made a bracket to hold the control cable vernier end.
Attached the bracket to the diagonal brace that goes from the front
floorboards to the top of the front of the seat truss.
This worked flawlessly for many hours of flying. Full open in summer,
usually fully closed in winter.
I also used the 160F OMC thermostat. Even then, coolant temps dropped to
or below 140F on descents to land.
I started with plastic wrapped around the radiator for winter flying, but
had to have different lengths depending on the expected air temps. Flap
cured this problem.
Hope this helps,
bh
> Hi Bruce, out of the 800+ hours on your 582 is that the only in-flight
> engine failure you had?
>
> By the way how did you make your radiator flap device? Do you have any
> pictures? My water temps are going to low.
>
> Robert
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Metal Header Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/30/04 12:53:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jablackwell@ev1.net writes:
<<
As part of going through my airplane which is new to me I noted that the
underside of the header tank around the fuel line fitting feels very slightly
damp. Since I had been working around other parts of the plane I am not sure
whether it smells like gasoline or not. Could this dampness be a little bit of
condensation?
>>
Jimmie,
From the subject line, it almost sounds like you already have the "METAL"
header tank. Which is it? If you were working in that area, I would give it
a few day's to see if you have a leak or not. If the gasoline smell goes
away, don't worry about it.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: repost from R.A.H. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
That's what I ;thought too until I read further down that:
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: repost from R.A.H.
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Oakley" <joakley@ida.net>
>
> Lowell,
> I read the note to say that all 912s are grounded. because the version 3
> cuff is not out yet..
>
> John Oakely
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: repost from R.A.H.
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
> I have two friends that are using the CAP 140 prop and am not sure they
are
> in the loop for being informed of this Service Bulletin. I have checked
the
> NSI website a couple of times and the bulletin is not posted.
>
> After re-reading the bulletin, I am a bit confused. Are all the 912S
> version 1 and 2 hubs grounded immediately or are they still usable until
the
> hour limit.
>
> Anyway I wanted to personally let these guys know the situation. Both are
> original purchasers of the units so should be on the NSI mailing list.
>
> Lowell
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: repost from R.A.H.
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Howard Firm" <pianome2@mchsi.com>
> >
> > This summer an RAA member suffered the loss of a prop blade on his
> > amphibious 912S Kitfox, that was equipped with a NSI CAP 140
propeller.The
> > engine immediately broke from its mount, but fortunately was retained by
> the
> > hoses and cables. The pilot was able to make a successful emergency
> landing
> > with the departed blade stuck into his float.
> >
> > The NSI CAP 140 prop is in-flight adjustable and has three Warp Drive
> > blades that are modified by the addition of an aluminum cuff that fits
> into
> > the NSI hub. There have so far been two versions of this cuff, with a
> third
> > version about to be released. Some applications will have their
effective
> > lives limited by this AD, and others are grounded immediately. New
version
> 3
> > parts are not yet ready, so some planes will be grounded until parts are
> > available near the end of this year.
> >
> > Effective immediately, all 912S Rotax engines with either the version
1
> > or version 2 cuff are grounded. These parts may not be used any longer.
> Ship
> > your blades to NSI for installation of the version 3 cuff. Lance Wheeler
> has
> > told me this morning that the cost will be under $500 US.
> >
> > Effective immediately, all 912 engines with the version 1 cuff are
> > limited to 500 hours. All 912 engines with the version 2 cuff are
limited
> to
> > 1000 hours. Blades must then be shipped to NSI for installation of the
> > version 3 cuff.
> >
> > Effective immediately, all 914 engines with the version 1 cuff are
> > limited to 700 hours. All 914 engines with the version 2 cuff are
limited
> to
> > 1000 hours. Blades must then be shipped to NSI for installation of the
> > version 3 cuff.
> >
> > In Lance Wheeler's estimate, blades fitted with the version 3 cuff
will
> > have an effective life of 2000 hours.This estimate has been calculated
by
> > Finite Element Analysis. The full story on this will be printed in the
> next
> > issue of the Recreational Flyer.
> >
> >
> > Gary Wolf
> > President, RAA Canada
> >
> >
> > Howard Firm
> > 508 12th St. South
> > Virginia MN 55792
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | 582 Big end bearing failure. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
My inflight engine failures were with Rotax 583, not 582. All three were
>the result on the failure of the rear rod bering. Why? Who knows, but I'm
>not flying 2 stroke engines anymore. Chad
I note in my Rotax service manual that on these later 582's there is a
tongue sticking out into the mixture stream in the inlet port. The manual
says not to remove this as it deflects the mixture to stop it washing the
oil out of the big end rod bearing. I figure maybe earlier and/or other
versions did not have this. Of course the temptation to any engine tuner is
to remove this for better flow. I figure the need is somewhat unusal as most
rotary valve two strokes aren't feeding the mixture straight at the bearing
like this but Rotax with the twin cylinder use that rotary disc on the side
of the motor to feed both cylinders rather than conventional setup with the
disc on the end of the motor. Perhaps here-in lies the answer to those
bearing failures.
Rex.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 20
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| Subject: | Resistor Caps + Resistor plugs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I have been running both
resistor caps and plugs with no known problems. Seems I read or heard
somewhere
that
this is OK to do.
Somewhere I have directives that all state "Do not use resistor caps and
resistor plugs" As an electronics technician I can explain the reason. Both
resistor caps and resistor plugs use resistance in series with the spark
gap. Typically approx 5 thousand ohms. Now 5 thousand ohms or 5K as we call
it is acceptable. It does weaken the spark but we can cope with that. The
electrical noise created by the spark on the plug lead can be greatly
absorbed in this resistance. However if we use both resistor caps and
resistor plugs we get 10K resistance and this is weakening the spark energy
considerably more to the point where in some ignition systems we will get
misfiring under load and loss of power. Also leading to plug fouling and
compounding the problem.
Now as it happens the CDI systems on our motors are very good ignition
systems and seem to cope with 10K resistance because Don is getting away
with it. Also I have to admit that when I bought my plane the previous owner
also had 10K ie:- both resistor plugs and caps. However we are tempting
trouble doing this, not only re misfiring but also re ignition module
failure.
If noise in our headphones is a problem the first thing to work out is if
it is radiated ignition noise or noise on the powerline into our radio,
intercomm, noise cancelling or anything else in the system like music input
[ CD player etc ] For radiated noise resistances the first approach is
best achieved by using resistor plugs re reliability. This way we change the
resistor each time we change plugs. If we still have radiated noise we might
have to go to shieled plugs etc. Bear in mind we are dealing with what we
call signal to noise ratio. If we have a good strong signal the effect is
less than with a weak signal.
Now if the noise in our comm system is coming in on the powerlines. ie:-
the 12 volt line or lines into our radio or intercomm etc then resistor
plugs or caps are not where we need to be looking. My comm sytem would be
working perfectly before firing up my 582 after which I had a very bad
howling noise varying with RPM. This was hard if not impossible to control
with squelch. I made up a filter cicuit to go into my 12 volt feed line to
my intercomm and noise cancelling and all the noise disapeared.
I recently fitted BR8EIX plugs that have booster gaps and although these
plugs offer considerable improvement in 2 to 3 thousand RPM running and on
ignition check due to the plugs burning cleaner I now get a little radiated
ignition noise again. however it is slight and worth putting up with for the
improvement in engine running. Generally we only notice it down low after
start up and can generally squelch it out in flight.
If anyone would like the filter circuit details please contact me direct
off list as I can't post a circuit on list. If you are not electronically
minded you may need the help of a friend who is. Alternatively you can try
some filters available for car audio systems. However mine is better than
these if your noise cancelling and intercomm run on 9 volts. My system will
also offer some filtering for 12 volts at the same time for the line to the
radio. The circuit is simple, cheap and easy to build. You will need to
access parts from an electronics component supplier however.
Rex Shaw
ClassicIV Speedster/582
Australia
rexjan@bigpond.com
Message 21
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| Subject: | Theromostically controlled actuator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
In a message dated 10/30/04 Guy Buchanan on kitfox-list-
Does anyone have a line on a thermostatically controlled actuator that
could drive a cowl flap?
Guy Buchanan
Guy:
The Corvair cars had one, might check and see if available still from the
Corvair group.
Elbie
Elbie H. Mendenhall
EM Aviation, LLC
360-260-0772
www.riteangle.com
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