Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:03 AM - Re: Theromostically controlled actuator (kurt schrader)
2. 12:05 AM - Re: Thanks BruceRe: bh radiator flapRe: Rotax two Stroke in-flight failu re question. (kurt schrader)
3. 01:58 AM - election (BROSCHART)
4. 05:40 AM - Re: Metal Header Tank (Jimmie Blackwell)
5. 06:02 AM - Re: Metal Header Tank (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
6. 06:52 AM - Re: Metal Header Tank (Jimmie Blackwell)
7. 07:42 AM - Re: Thanks BruceRe: bh radiator flapRe: Rotax two Stroke in-flight failu re question. (customtrans@qwest.net)
8. 08:42 AM - Re: Second question, I'm thinking of changing the airfilter on m... (AV8OR27RL@cs.com)
9. 08:43 AM - Re: Metal Header Tank (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
10. 09:33 AM - Re: Resistor Caps + Resistor plugs (Ron)
11. 11:36 AM - Re: A New Temperature Control System (Guy Buchanan)
12. 11:36 AM - Re: Different plugs=smoother running down low. (Guy Buchanan)
13. 11:36 AM - Re: Theromostically controlled actuator (Guy Buchanan)
14. 11:36 AM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell (Guy Buchanan)
15. 11:44 AM - Re: Theromostically controlled actuator (Guy Buchanan)
16. 12:56 PM - Re: Different plugs=smoother running down low. (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
17. 03:30 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell (Ceashman@aol.com)
18. 05:33 PM - Re: Second question, I'm thinking of changing the airfilter on m... (Torgeir Mortensen)
19. 06:30 PM - Completion of N854JB - Series 6 912S (John Banes)
20. 08:10 PM - Re: Different plugs=smoother running down low. (Guy Buchanan)
21. 08:10 PM - Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell (Guy Buchanan)
22. 09:13 PM - John King's Bahamas Trip - First Progress report (Don Pearsall)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Theromostically controlled actuator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Good point Elbie. Do you know what it looks like?
VW used a metal bellows. It bolted to a mount on one
end and had a pushrod connected at the other. You
just put it downstream of the radiator and it expanded
when hot opening the doors. I think it ran a little
hotter than we would like though. Very simple system.
Kurt S.
--- EMAproducts@aol.com wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
> EMAproducts@aol.com
>
> Does anyone have a line on a thermostatically
> controlled actuator that could drive a cowl flap?
> Guy Buchanan
>
> Guy:
> The Corvair cars had one, might check and see if
> available still from the Corvair group.
> Elbie
> Elbie H. Mendenhall
> EM Aviation, LLC
> 360-260-0772
> www.riteangle.com
__________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax two Stroke |
in-flight failu re question.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Right now I am doing the same thing with very
"scientifically applied" duct tape. :-)
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- david yeamans <dafox@ckt.net> wrote:
> Hello Robert,m
>
>
> I too think that bh has the best idea with
> the radiator flap. anything
> to control the temperture without using a
> thermostat. Thermostats can malfuntion. I don't
> intend to ever use one. The next best thing is
> blocking
> the wind flow with cardboard, you can still see 18
> wheelers going down the
> highway with cardboard in front of their radiators
> on a cold day. What I did,
> and this was on the Foxlist a winter or two ago,
> was cut a piece of plastic
> screen wire, doubled it, like an envelope, to fit
> the front of the radiator, got
> self adhevsive velcro, stiched one side to the
> screen wire and applied the
> other to the radiator. Then I cut three pieces of
> cardboard, 0ne 2x8, 2x10,
> and 2x12, these were from beer cartens, Natural
> Lite, Bush lite, and Bud
> lite, in prospective. The 2x8 worked fine at 60
> degrees, the 2x10 at 40 degrees and the 2x12 at 20
> degrees. they all maintained close to 170 degrees. I
> still use them. Maybe one day i'll make a radiator
> flap like Bruce
> did
>
> David
__________________________________
Message 3
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: BROSCHART <cfbflyer@localnet.com>
i hope all usa list members will be voting tuesday
Have a good day - Charlie
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Metal Header Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Don
Yes it is a metal header. Mine is an early Model IV, 1992 vintage and I
think Denny provided metal tanks standard in those days. Should I decide to
remove the tank do you know if I should put some sort of sealer on the
threads of the metal connections when I put it back in the plane? Seems I
remember something on the list about a product that helped seal metal to
metal threaded connections for gas lines.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Metal Header Tank
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 10/30/04 12:53:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> jablackwell@ev1.net writes:
>
> <<
> As part of going through my airplane which is new to me I noted that the
> underside of the header tank around the fuel line fitting feels very
slightly
> damp. Since I had been working around other parts of the plane I am not
sure
> whether it smells like gasoline or not. Could this dampness be a little
bit of
> condensation?
> >>
>
> Jimmie,
> From the subject line, it almost sounds like you already have the
"METAL"
> header tank. Which is it? If you were working in that area, I would give
it
> a few day's to see if you have a leak or not. If the gasoline smell goes
> away, don't worry about it.
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Metal Header Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/31/04 5:41:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jablackwell@ev1.net writes:
<< Don
Yes it is a metal header. Mine is an early Model IV, 1992 vintage and I
think Denny provided metal tanks standard in those days. Should I decide to
remove the tank do you know if I should put some sort of sealer on the
threads of the metal connections when I put it back in the plane? Seems I
remember something on the list about a product that helped seal metal to
metal threaded connections for gas lines.
Jimmie >>
Jimmie,
The biggest problem in the past has been sealing metal fittings into the
Poly header tanks. I would think any good thread sealant from the Auto store
would work fine in your metal to metal situation. And yes, I would put
something on the threads. Now, I'm talking about the national pipe threads (NPT)
in
your tank not flared fittings. Of course, the side of a flarred fitting that
screws into the tank/bushing should be NPT. I don't think the flared side of
a flare fittings generally require any sealant.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Metal Header Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Good info Don. Thank you. If I do remove the header tank I am thinking of
replacing the metal fitting that goes into the header tank. Do you know if
these fittings are auto store variety or are they something special for our
application?
Also, is it your airplane that has hub caps on the wheels? If so was
wondering how you did that.
Thanks
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Metal Header Tank
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 10/31/04 5:41:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> jablackwell@ev1.net writes:
>
> << Don
> Yes it is a metal header. Mine is an early Model IV, 1992 vintage and I
> think Denny provided metal tanks standard in those days. Should I decide
to
> remove the tank do you know if I should put some sort of sealer on the
> threads of the metal connections when I put it back in the plane? Seems
I
> remember something on the list about a product that helped seal metal to
> metal threaded connections for gas lines.
>
> Jimmie >>
>
> Jimmie,
> The biggest problem in the past has been sealing metal fittings into
the
> Poly header tanks. I would think any good thread sealant from the Auto
store
> would work fine in your metal to metal situation. And yes, I would put
> something on the threads. Now, I'm talking about the national pipe
threads (NPT) in
> your tank not flared fittings. Of course, the side of a flarred fitting
that
> screws into the tank/bushing should be NPT. I don't think the flared side
of
> a flare fittings generally require any sealant.
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Rotax two Stroke |
in-flight failu re question.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: customtrans@qwest.net
Me too,
I use the clear duct tape, two inches wide and generally about eight inches
long.
steve a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Subject: Re: Thanks BruceRE: bh radiator flapRE: Kitfox-List: Rotax two
Stroke in-flight failu re question.
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Right now I am doing the same thing with very
"scientifically applied" duct tape. :-)
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- david yeamans <dafox@ckt.net> wrote:
> Hello Robert,m
>
>
> I too think that bh has the best idea with
> the radiator flap. anything
> to control the temperture without using a
> thermostat. Thermostats can malfuntion. I don't
> intend to ever use one. The next best thing is
> blocking
> the wind flow with cardboard, you can still see 18
> wheelers going down the
> highway with cardboard in front of their radiators
> on a cold day. What I did,
> and this was on the Foxlist a winter or two ago,
> was cut a piece of plastic
> screen wire, doubled it, like an envelope, to fit
> the front of the radiator, got
> self adhevsive velcro, stiched one side to the
> screen wire and applied the
> other to the radiator. Then I cut three pieces of
> cardboard, 0ne 2x8, 2x10,
> and 2x12, these were from beer cartens, Natural
> Lite, Bush lite, and Bud
> lite, in prospective. The 2x8 worked fine at 60
> degrees, the 2x10 at 40 degrees and the 2x12 at 20
> degrees. they all maintained close to 170 degrees. I
> still use them. Maybe one day i'll make a radiator
> flap like Bruce
> did
>
> David
__________________________________
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Second question, I'm thinking of changing the airfilter |
on m...
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AV8OR27RL@cs.com
In a message dated 10/28/04 4:20:59 PM Mountain Standard Time,
torgemor@online.no writes:
<<
In the past, I've been talking about an "alternative" true mixture system
for the two strokes.
Well, to recover- basically this system are using same method as the
"automatic mixture control - altitude corrected" made by "Rotax" ( "-" as
they hired a company to this project).
Of course, here's more details about the system:
http://www.greenskyadventures.com/bing/hacdetails.htm
The thing is, why not using a "manual system" in order to control the
mixture the same way as the old original..
OK. This is very simple, -and I don't understand why it takes so long for
the industries to come up with a manual system based on the original
Principe.
In January (maybe February :) ), Green Sky Adventures come up with the
"first" manual system, based on the original Principe.
Now, how does this work? It's that simple, you're using the pressure (the
true carburetor venturi pressure) to adjust the bowl chamber pressure. The
secret is the tiny vent loop at the carburetor. Put a T into this line,
then you adjust this pressure precisely - and this is your mixture control.
Some background here:
This "link line" (with the holes in the middle) make sure that the bowl
pressure is correct, our surrounding pressure. When we are pushing (our
throttle) more power, the venturi pressure decrease (our bowl pressure is
constant), the differential pressure increase - whola - more fuel.
OK. In the original system this is controlled by an aneroid bellows stack,
in the manual it is controlled with a needle valve - and a calibrated
leak, that's all folks. Yes, I know, because I've been using this thing
for four years..
>>
Torgeir
I agree. Why has it taken so long? Is anyone else using this manual
mixture control? Any failures? What happens if a carb overflows?
I know on the old Skidoo snow machines with the Rotax engines if the
aneroid failed it was difficult to get enough power to get it home.
I would like to hear feedback on this system.
Bob Locey
Model II 582UL
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Metal Header Tank |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
Jimmie,
<< Good info Don. Thank you. If I do remove the header tank I am thinking of
replacing the metal fitting that goes into the header tank. Do you know if
these fittings are auto store variety or are they something special for our
application?>>
I would think so, just pull the old one out and take it along with you.
>> Also, is it your airplane that has hub caps on the wheels? If so was
wondering how you did that. >>
It was easy, just pulled them out of the box and screwed them on to the
wheels with 3 screws provided. Yes, I have hub caps. They came with the Cleveland
wheels.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Do Not Archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Resistor Caps + Resistor plugs |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
Hey Rex, nice post......
How do I know if I have resistor caps on my 582? Whatever came with the
engine back in 1989 are still in place and working good. I don't know why
but I have no feedback or electrical noise in my headset as everything works
great. I do use the resistor plugs.
Ron
>
>
> Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I have been running both
> resistor caps and plugs with no known problems. Seems I read or heard
> somewhere
> that
> this is OK to do.
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: A New Temperature Control System |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 11:31 AM 10/30/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>A simple manual bypass valve across the radiator would
>be less risky then a thermostat IMHO. You are just
>using full airflow thru the radiator all the time and
>thus always at max radiator drag in either case.
This doesn't get rid of that slug of cold water waiting to quench your
fires. The idea behind using the cowl flap as a thermostat is to allow the
water to circulate continuously throughout the system so you can never have
a cold seizure.
>Perhaps a large model plane or sailboat servo could be
>used to power the doors.
That was my plan. There are some plenty big servos available now. You can
even use one of the servos used in model sailboats if you need some serious
horsepower. I think, however, that if the door is designed right it
shouldn't take much torque to move it.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Different plugs=smoother running down low. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 10:50 PM 10/29/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>Getting them off the engine and onto the firewall fixed all the
>concerns. They
>work nice and are shockmounted.
Thanks Don. I like the idea. Did you make your own plug wires or were you
able to buy them? I guess the question is, is it easy to make your own plug
wires?
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Theromostically controlled actuator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 01:53 AM 10/31/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>The Corvair cars had one, might check and see if available still from the
>Corvair group.
Thanks Elbie. Do you have any idea what it did? It would help me track it down.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 12:46 AM 10/30/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>Is there an engineer in the house?
As a matter of fact, there is! I still call myself one, even though it's
been a few years since I put pencil to paper.
>I thought tensile strength was related to the stresses as if you were pulling
>the component apart.
It is.
>I don't think a fuel tank or cowling requires tensile strength built into it
>as an engineering factor.
It does, but typically only very close to fastenings. Note also that skin
bending strength and stiffness involve coupled tension and compression
strength and stiffness respectively with a little interlaminar shear thrown in.
>So I
>would not try to coat the inside of the fuel tank, 'cause I can't get in
>there to
>sand.
I agree, though if it were a new tank you might re-activate the surface
with a slosh of acetone.
>Any more resin than complete wetting is a
>waste (no added strength without the extra sheet of glass or carbon).
True.
>If you inspect the cured article and close up you find minute square pocket
>holes. This tells you that the fabric lay-up was not wet enough.
Yes and no. If you're design is short and think and critical in bending,
(i.e. it is critical in shear,) then the voids will substantially degrade
the interlaminar shear strength and therefore the bending strength. For all
other load cases the strength reduction is minimal as long as the fibers
are wet and bonded.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Theromostically controlled actuator |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 01:53 AM 10/31/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>Guy:
>The Corvair cars had one, might check and see if available still from the
>Corvair group.
Elbie,
Belay my last post. I did some checking and found them on the web.
They're air driven bellows so not suitable for my purposes. I'm looking for
something that operates off the water temperature, since that's what I'm
trying to control. Measuring the air on the back side of the radiator
would, I think, involve too many variables to be as useful as driving the
flap with the water temperature. Thanks for the info, though.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Different plugs=smoother running down low. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
In a message dated 10/31/04 11:37:38 AM Pacific Standard Time,
bnn@nethere.com writes:
<<
Thanks Don. I like the idea. Did you make your own plug wires or were you
able to buy them? I guess the question is, is it easy to make your own plug
wires?
Guy Buchanan >>
Guy,
You purchase the Rotax replacement wire from CPS. Just order enough
length and cut to suit. The wires from CPS are exact replacement of the Rotax
originals (copper content). I first ordered the wires from Spruce. They weren't
even close to the Rotax original.
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Ceashman@aol.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 12:46 AM 10/30/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>Is there an engineer in the house?
As a matter of fact, there is! I still call myself one, even though it's
been a few years since I put pencil to paper.
Hello Guy.
Thanks for confirming my suspicions (psst, don't tell anyone they were mere
suspicions)!
I have a question for you:
-->K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.< Does this mean Bob Ducar
constructed 99% of the K IV and you are going to do the last 1%? (Ha! Ha!-
I'm only kidding)
Greetings. Eric Ashman Classic IV Atlanta.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Second question, I'm thinking of changing the airfilter |
on m...
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Torgeir Mortensen <torgemor@online.no>
> Torgeir
> I agree. Why has it taken so long? Is anyone else using this manual
> mixture control? Any failures? What happens if a carb overflows?
> I know on the old Skidoo snow machines with the Rotax engines if the
> aneroid failed it was difficult to get enough power to get it home.
> I would like to hear feedback on this system.
>
> Bob Locey
> Model II 582UL
Hi Bob and all,
Been out flying this weekend, so not much time for the web... :)
Maybe this flight was my last for this year, as the darkness start rolling
in this far North..
(I'll try answer all my post as soon as, whow..)
If the carb overflow, it will be same as before -it is possible.
There is various carbs. used out there, however this is the Bing 54
carburetor and don't have the built in rubber bellow.
The only possible overflow here is the bowl valve, or the other
possibility from the membrane fuel (pulse) pump, but this one is outside
the carb.
Well, this last week I've made a sketch of the principle for the manual
mixture system, for those interested -here is a direct link:
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=view&epoch=1099272168
Cheers
Torgeir.
>
>
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Message 19
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| Subject: | Completion of N854JB - Series 6 912S |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Banes" <JohnBanes@Adelphia.net>
The kit arrived Nov 8, 2001. After spending 33 months in our 2 car garage
and 3 months in the hangar N854JB is finally complete. It seems the FAA
agrees. I should receive the airworthiness certificate and limitations
tomorrow. Next item is the first test flight.
Basic info:
Empty Weight 814 lb
Useful Load 736 lb
Landing Gear Tri-gear
Engine 912S 100HP
Stock S-6 no S-7 upgrades
Propeller Warp Drive 72" 3 blade set to 15 deg. at tip - 5100
Static RPM
I would appreciate hearing from S-6 drivers with the 912 S the following
airspeeds.
Rotate
Liftoff
Vx
Vy
Vs0
Vs1
Va
Best Glide
Thanks in advance!
John Banes
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Different plugs=smoother running down low. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 03:56 PM 10/31/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>Guy,
> You purchase the Rotax replacement wire from CPS. Just order enough
>length and cut to suit. The wires from CPS are exact replacement of the
>Rotax
>originals (copper content). I first ordered the wires from Spruce. They
>weren't
>even close to the Rotax original.
>
>Don Smythe
>N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Thanks Don.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Coating on Inside of Cowl To Lowell |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
At 06:29 PM 10/31/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>Does this mean Bob Ducar
>constructed 99% of the K IV and you are going to do the last 1%? (Ha! Ha!-
>I'm only kidding)
Yes. And you know the old saying: "99% done, 99% to go." It only seems like
that; I really have very little to do to finish Bob's beauty.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99% done, thanks to Bob Ducar.
Message 22
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| Subject: | John King's Bahamas Trip - First Progress report |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don Pearsall" <donpearsall@comcast.net>
I got a phone call from John this evening. After flying for 8hrs from
Warrenton to Ft. Pierce, FL, he met with the only other member of the flight
(The RV's could not make it). They will fly to Orlando tomorrow, then on to
Bimini. That is quite a lot of flying already!
He will try to check in when he can, pending good cell phone service.
To follow the flight, go to www.sportflight.com/bahamas.
Don Pearsall
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