Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:59 AM - Reduction drive gear ratios (Fox5flyer)
2. 07:57 AM - Spinner back plate (W Duke)
3. 08:39 AM - Remove from List. (Robert Toth)
4. 09:33 AM - Re: Spinner back plate (W Duke)
5. 10:46 AM - Re: Reduction drive gear ratios (kurt schrader)
6. 11:27 AM - Re: Skyfox cowling (Michel Verheughe)
7. 01:27 PM - Battery/Starter Problem (AlbertaIV@aol.com)
8. 01:51 PM - Your Cable lug may have a crack.Re: (Harris, Robert)
9. 01:55 PM - Re: Battery/Starter Problem (Dee Young)
10. 02:34 PM - Re: Battery/Starter Problem (Michel Verheughe)
11. 03:01 PM - Re: Your Cable lug may have a crack.Re: Battery/Starter Problem (flier)
12. 04:28 PM - Re: Battery/Starter Problem (shortnaked)
13. 04:29 PM - rad shutters Re: 582 cooling (shortnaked)
14. 06:56 PM - Re: Reduction drive gear ratios (Rick)
15. 06:58 PM - Re: Spinner back plate (Jay & Beverly Carter)
16. 06:58 PM - Re: Battery/Starter Problem (Jay & Beverly Carter)
17. 11:22 PM - Re: Battery/Starter Problem (Jimmie Blackwell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Reduction drive gear ratios |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Fox5flyer" <morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
Thanks for the update Rick. My advice would be to forget the pitch gauge.
Using a combination of manifold pressure, fuel flow, and rpm becomes
intuitive after only a few hours of flying. I think the gauge only confuses
the issue and can't be trusted.
Besides the gears, what else did you do to rebuild the prop?
Darrel
>
> I recently finished the rebuild on my EA-81 turbo CAP 140. It is turning
a
> three blade warp drive set of blades 72". The old gears were 2.34 and I
> thought the new gears I installed of around 2.0 would be better. Not so. I
> spoke with Lance and he believes the 2.12 or 2.23 would be a better set.
He
> mentioned Tom Anderson had use a different ration than the 2.34 possibly
the
> 2.12 or 2.23. If so I would appreciate any feed back on performance.
> Some time ago I talked with Warp Drive. The indicated best thrust was
> developed at 16.5 degrees at about 2650 prop RPMs. That was my hope but
even
> the turbo will not pull 16.5 at the 5200 engine rpm I had hoped for.
> I also learned from Lance that the digital prop gage is only accurate at
the
> extremes of its readings, full pitch beta or forward. In a nutshell, not a
> linear readout; I was surprised. SO not sure what I have it set at ,
other
> than at 3.5 indicated it will pull to 5200 engine RPMs. Zero is actually
> about 8 degrees beta. So now I will need a mechanical prop pitch gage and
> construct a deviation table. Unless of course someone has done that
already.
> That would be swell.
> The new engine is running strong and has not blow up in almost 6 hours,
> fingers crossed for awhile.
> Rick
Message 2
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| Subject: | Spinner back plate |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke <n981ms@yahoo.com>
List,
I now have around 350 hours on the IO240 S6. I was retorqueing the wood prop
due to the climactic changes (such as they are in GA). In doing so I found cracks
in the spinner back plate. The cracks are along the outer diameter of the
prop extension under the prop blade. The cracks extend tangetially (perpendicular
to the prop blade). My theory is prop flexion with acceleration/ deceleration
caused fatigue cracks. I have thought of having the cracks welded or
riveting on a round plate concentric with the back plate. Anybody have the perfect
fix?
Maxwell
---------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Remove from List. |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Robert Toth <rtoth1@verizon.net>
Going away for a few weeks need to be dropped from the list. Thanks
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner back plate |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke <n981ms@yahoo.com>
Oops,
It is the Skystar aluminum spinner and a Sensenich wood prop.
Maxwell
W Duke <n981ms@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: W Duke
List,
I now have around 350 hours on the IO240 S6. I was retorqueing the wood prop due
to the climactic changes (such as they are in GA). In doing so I found cracks
in the spinner back plate. The cracks are along the outer diameter of the prop
extension under the prop blade. The cracks extend tangetially (perpendicular
to the prop blade). My theory is prop flexion with acceleration/ deceleration
caused fatigue cracks. I have thought of having the cracks welded or riveting
on a round plate concentric with the back plate. Anybody have the perfect fix?
Maxwell
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Reduction drive gear ratios |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Rick,
It would be interesting to hear how your indicated
pitch vs actual pitch table worked out. I don't have
the meter and often wondered if it was useful.
I have the small turbo and put out about 143 hp max.
My GB is the 2.23 ratio. I agree that the thrust
improves noticably above 2400 prop RPM, but I am
engine RPM limited from getting the 2650 prop rpm.
For me, the 2.12 ratio would probably be better, at
least for takeoff.
If you have the big turbo and 150+ hp, the 2.12 ratio
might still work well too and you can pull a little
more pitch. I think the 2.0 ratio is too low.
For me, it seems that the prop itself can not take all
the power well as is. It should have a little wider
blades and the 2650 rpm rather than more pitch to get
the cruise thrust up.
Kurt S.
--- Rick <turboflyer@comcast.net> wrote:
> I recently finished the rebuild on my EA-81 turbo
> CAP 140. It is turning a
> three blade warp drive set of blades 72". The old
> gears were 2.34 and I
> thought the new gears I installed of around 2.0
> would be better. Not so. I
> spoke with Lance and he believes the 2.12 or 2.23
> would be a better set. He
> mentioned Tom Anderson had use a different ration
> than the 2.34 possibly the
> 2.12 or 2.23. If so I would appreciate any feed back
> on performance.
> Some time ago I talked with Warp Drive. The
> indicated best thrust was
> developed at 16.5 degrees at about 2650 prop RPMs.
> That was my hope but even
> the turbo will not pull 16.5 at the 5200 engine rpm
> I had hoped for.
> I also learned from Lance that the digital prop gage
> is only accurate at the
> extremes of its readings, full pitch beta or
> forward. In a nutshell, not a
> linear readout; I was surprised. SO not sure what I
> have it set at , other
> than at 3.5 indicated it will pull to 5200 engine
> RPMs. Zero is actually
> about 8 degrees beta. So now I will need a
> mechanical prop pitch gage and
> construct a deviation table. Unless of course
> someone has done that already.
> That would be swell.
> The new engine is running strong and has not blow up
> in almost 6 hours,
> fingers crossed for awhile.
>
> Rick
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Skyfox cowling |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
> Besides, you are an old boat builder. Cut, piece, fiberglass, fill in and paint.
Oh yes, Don, I wasn't complaining and I actually look forward to do some
moulding work. I simply wanted - for once - to contribute to the list by saying
that the Skyfox cowling is not a perfect match. Just in case someone else was interested.
Lowell Fitt wrote:
> Michel, Might it be easier to make a new firewall and fit a new windshield?
I don't think so, Lowell, because, to get the same "flat curve" as the Skyfox
cowling, I'll also need to have a new glareshield and a new panel. You see, in
my model 3, everything, from the panel to the round end of the cowl, is a
perfect section of a circle. To go from there to a "flat top nose" it would be
much easier to mould a transition somewhere ahead of the firewall.
But the proper way to go ahead now is to get the Jabiru installed, then I can
see exactly where the prop shaft is getting out of the cowling. I think this is
what will dictate the proper section I'll have to make.
... more to come when I have the engine mount welded and the engine installed.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Battery/Starter Problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
I have my prop off while doing cowl work. Today I decided to roll the engine
a little and let the thing lubricate a bit (mags off). The flange would
barely move and only go through one compression stroke. That battery reads 12.35
volts (static). Put the charger on at 2 amps for an hour warm up the battery.
Still the same thing. Pulled one plug for each cylinder and engine spun but
"MIGHT" have been slow. Now sure since I normally don't do that.
Could the Powersonic gel battery be bad (3+ years old) and still indicate
a good charge? How about the starter bad? I'm hoping for it to be the
batter or some bad contact but this is acting strange. Anybody with any wisdom
thoughts?
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 8
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Battery/Starter Problem
| Subject: | Cable lug may have a crack.RE: Kitfox-List: |
Battery/Starter Problem
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
Hi Don,
Check your starter battery cable lug. Mine had a hairline crack at the
starter post which took several weeks to locate not to mention a waste of
money spent on a new battery, solenoid and battery cables.
582 BlueHead
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AlbertaIV@aol.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Battery/Starter Problem
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
I have my prop off while doing cowl work. Today I decided to roll the
engine
a little and let the thing lubricate a bit (mags off). The flange would
barely move and only go through one compression stroke. That battery reads
12.35
volts (static). Put the charger on at 2 amps for an hour warm up the
battery.
Still the same thing. Pulled one plug for each cylinder and engine spun
but
"MIGHT" have been slow. Now sure since I normally don't do that.
Could the Powersonic gel battery be bad (3+ years old) and still
indicate
a good charge? How about the starter bad? I'm hoping for it to be the
batter or some bad contact but this is acting strange. Anybody with any
wisdom
thoughts?
Don Smythe
N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
Message 9
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| Subject: | Battery/Starter Problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dee Young" <henrysfork1@msn.com>
Clean your terminals Don, that may fix the problem
Dee
>From: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>Reply-To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Battery/Starter Problem
>Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 16:26:44 EST
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>I have my prop off while doing cowl work. Today I decided to roll the
>engine
>a little and let the thing lubricate a bit (mags off). The flange would
>barely move and only go through one compression stroke. That battery reads
>12.35
>volts (static). Put the charger on at 2 amps for an hour warm up the
>battery.
> Still the same thing. Pulled one plug for each cylinder and engine spun
>but
>"MIGHT" have been slow. Now sure since I normally don't do that.
> Could the Powersonic gel battery be bad (3+ years old) and still
>indicate
>a good charge? How about the starter bad? I'm hoping for it to be the
>batter or some bad contact but this is acting strange. Anybody with any
>wisdom
>thoughts?
>
>Don Smythe
>N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Battery/Starter Problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
> Anybody with any wisdom thoughts?
I think you already got good advices, Don: check your battery connection.
But I answer just to tell that I read the answers long before this email came
in my mailbox. Which shows that Matronics deliver sometimes with delay,
depending on where you live.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Battery/Starter Problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "flier" <FLIER@sbcglobal.net>
Also check your ground between the engine and the
airframe...
--- Original Message ---
From: "Harris, Robert" <Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
list@matronics.com> Battery/Starter Problem
Subject: Your Cable lug may have a crack.RE: Kitfox-
List: Battery/Starter Problem
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Harris, Robert"
<Robert_Harris@intuit.com>
>
>Hi Don,
>
>Check your starter battery cable lug. Mine had a
hairline crack at the
>starter post which took several weeks to locate not
to mention a waste of
>money spent on a new battery, solenoid and battery
cables.
>
>582 BlueHead
>Robert
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of
>AlbertaIV@aol.com
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Battery/Starter Problem
>
>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
>I have my prop off while doing cowl work. Today I
decided to roll the
>engine
>a little and let the thing lubricate a bit (mags
off). The flange would
>barely move and only go through one compression
stroke. That battery reads
>12.35
>volts (static). Put the charger on at 2 amps for an
hour warm up the
>battery.
> Still the same thing. Pulled one plug for each
cylinder and engine spun
>but
>"MIGHT" have been slow. Now sure since I normally
don't do that.
> Could the Powersonic gel battery be bad (3+
years old) and still
>indicate
>a good charge? How about the starter bad? I'm
hoping for it to be the
>batter or some bad contact but this is acting
strange. Anybody with any
>wisdom
>thoughts?
>
>Don Smythe
>N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
>_-
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Forums.
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Battery/Starter Problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
if you have a load tester use it on your battery,
possible dead cell starting here, load test will tell all.
if battery good --- bad connection possible.
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery/Starter Problem
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
>
> AlbertaIV@aol.com wrote:
> > Anybody with any wisdom thoughts?
>
> I think you already got good advices, Don: check your battery connection.
> But I answer just to tell that I read the answers long before this email
came
> in my mailbox. Which shows that Matronics deliver sometimes with delay,
> depending on where you live.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 13
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
sorry if you have to sign up to see this
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lazair/lst?.dir=/582+RAD+SHUTTERS&.src=gr&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/
582 rad shutters - if you want emailed direct sent me a not e and i send
does this list have a file upload place ?
Shorty
----- Original Message -----
From: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
Subject: Re: Cold Seizures Re: Kitfox-List: 582 cooling
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "shortnaked" <shortnaked@golden.net>
>
> cowl flaps are whata lot of guys seem to be talking about.. or a flap of
> some kind.
>
> just another thing to put in your routine and /or forget to do.leave
closed
> after decent and do a missed approach and wonder why your temp is now at
> 190. duh
>
> thermo-matic controlled would be the best if feasable.
>
> I seen a guy a few year ago on a pusher with rad mounted in front of motor
> on top and he added a set of shutters in this rad and i think he was
running
> too cool so that is why he added them. Now inside cockpit he has a
> manual control to open and shut them. I should pop over to the strip he
got
> it at and snap a few pics if you interesed.
>
>
> Shorty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Cold Seizures Re: Kitfox-List: 582 cooling
>
>
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 11/5/04 4:51:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > shortnaked@golden.net writes:
> >
> > << Maybe in that case Don -- you should use cowl flaps as part of your
pre
> > decent.>>
> >
> > What cowl flaps? That's what I'm working on now so that I will have
cowl
> > flaps just for that reason.
> >
> > << keeping 4 k rpm prolly will be just as well and not hammer happy
(
> > applying full Throttle) right after a long desent. you can shock cool
a
> >>
> >
> >
> > Ahhh, Keeping about 4K is exactly what I do for normal decents now.
I'll
> > hold it until the numbers are made then slowly decrease to idle. Go
> arounds
> > start at tail up (high speed taxi) then add more and more power slowly.
> No
> > abrupt FULL THROTTLE go arounds for me (unless an emergency).
> >
> > Don Smythe
> > N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Reduction drive gear ratios |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Rick" <turboflyer@comcast.net>
Yes, in fact that was one thing lance addressed with his new prop, a wider
cord shorted blade length. in fact, a two not three blade set up. I will
most likely buy one as soon as it is available and my funds are available,
hopefully the two available lines on the chart will cross soon. I am
leaning towards the 2:23 gears but was hopeful we could get Toms input as
well.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kurt
schrader
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Reduction drive gear ratios
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader
<smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
Hi Rick,
It would be interesting to hear how your indicated
pitch vs actual pitch table worked out. I don't have
the meter and often wondered if it was useful.
I have the small turbo and put out about 143 hp max.
My GB is the 2.23 ratio. I agree that the thrust
improves noticably above 2400 prop RPM, but I am
engine RPM limited from getting the 2650 prop rpm.
For me, the 2.12 ratio would probably be better, at
least for takeoff.
If you have the big turbo and 150+ hp, the 2.12 ratio
might still work well too and you can pull a little
more pitch. I think the 2.0 ratio is too low.
For me, it seems that the prop itself can not take all
the power well as is. It should have a little wider
blades and the 2650 rpm rather than more pitch to get
the cruise thrust up.
Kurt S.
--- Rick <turboflyer@comcast.net> wrote:
> I recently finished the rebuild on my EA-81 turbo
> CAP 140. It is turning a
> three blade warp drive set of blades 72". The old
> gears were 2.34 and I
> thought the new gears I installed of around 2.0
> would be better. Not so. I
> spoke with Lance and he believes the 2.12 or 2.23
> would be a better set. He
> mentioned Tom Anderson had use a different ration
> than the 2.34 possibly the
> 2.12 or 2.23. If so I would appreciate any feed back
> on performance.
> Some time ago I talked with Warp Drive. The
> indicated best thrust was
> developed at 16.5 degrees at about 2650 prop RPMs.
> That was my hope but even
> the turbo will not pull 16.5 at the 5200 engine rpm
> I had hoped for.
> I also learned from Lance that the digital prop gage
> is only accurate at the
> extremes of its readings, full pitch beta or
> forward. In a nutshell, not a
> linear readout; I was surprised. SO not sure what I
> have it set at , other
> than at 3.5 indicated it will pull to 5200 engine
> RPMs. Zero is actually
> about 8 degrees beta. So now I will need a
> mechanical prop pitch gage and
> construct a deviation table. Unless of course
> someone has done that already.
> That would be swell.
> The new engine is running strong and has not blow up
> in almost 6 hours,
> fingers crossed for awhile.
>
> Rick
__________________________________
www.yahoo.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner back plate |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay & Beverly Carter" <valley361@centurytel.net>
Maxwell,
Does your spinner have a forward bulkhead? I have been looking for a
spinner for a Sensenich but have not located one with both bulkheads.
Without the forward bulkhead the spinner will probably wobble and fatigue.
Jay C.
----- Original Message -List Email Forum -
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Battery/Starter Problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jay & Beverly Carter" <valley361@centurytel.net>
Don,
Put a voltmeter across the battery when you crank the engine. If the
voltage goes below 9-10V the battery is suspect. If the voltage remains at a
good level the trouble is elsewhere. You can also measure the voltage drop
between the battery terminal and the starter terminal. Measure between the
ends of cables in the starter circuit to locate defective cables and
terminals.
Jay C.
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Battery/Starter Problem
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> I have my prop off while doing cowl work. Today I decided to roll the
engine
> a little and let the thing lubricate a bit (mags off). The flange would
> barely move and only go through one compression stroke. That battery
reads 12.35
> volts (static). Put the charger on at 2 amps for an hour warm up the
battery.
> Still the same thing. Pulled one plug for each cylinder and engine spun
but
> "MIGHT" have been slow. Now sure since I normally don't do that.
> Could the Powersonic gel battery be bad (3+ years old) and still
indicate
> a good charge? How about the starter bad? I'm hoping for it to be the
> batter or some bad contact but this is acting strange. Anybody with any
wisdom
> thoughts?
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Battery/Starter Problem |
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Jimmie Blackwell" <jablackwell@ev1.net>
Don
I had a problem with an ACS ignition switch that had some of these symptoms.
If you need details on troubleshooting the switch let me know.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: <AlbertaIV@aol.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Battery/Starter Problem
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: AlbertaIV@aol.com
>
> I have my prop off while doing cowl work. Today I decided to roll the
engine
> a little and let the thing lubricate a bit (mags off). The flange would
> barely move and only go through one compression stroke. That battery
reads 12.35
> volts (static). Put the charger on at 2 amps for an hour warm up the
battery.
> Still the same thing. Pulled one plug for each cylinder and engine spun
but
> "MIGHT" have been slow. Now sure since I normally don't do that.
> Could the Powersonic gel battery be bad (3+ years old) and still
indicate
> a good charge? How about the starter bad? I'm hoping for it to be the
> batter or some bad contact but this is acting strange. Anybody with any
wisdom
> thoughts?
>
> Don Smythe
> N-998DS Classic IV W/ 582
>
>
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